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"I Wanted To Go To Some Place Where a Brain Tumor Ceases to Exist." A Conversation with Janine Urbaniak Reid

Hope for the Caregiver / Peter Rosenberger
The Truth Network Radio
July 16, 2020 5:30 am

"I Wanted To Go To Some Place Where a Brain Tumor Ceases to Exist." A Conversation with Janine Urbaniak Reid

Hope for the Caregiver / Peter Rosenberger

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July 16, 2020 5:30 am

Brain tumor, Alcoholism, and Breast Cancer ... Janine Urbaniak Reid ("The Opposite of Certainty") clearly understands brutal challenges. Yet, she's punched through these things and lives a life of meaning and purpose. 

"...I just want off this planet. I don't really want to die, but I want there to be some other way. I had this fantasy where I could get my family and we could all go somewhere, but I don't know that is ....where a brain tumor cases to exist. But it was more like, 'I just want out.'"




Peter Rosenberger is the host of HOPE FOR THE CAREGIVER.  The nation's #1 broadcast and podcast show for family caregivers, Peter draws upon his 34+ year journey as a caregiver for his wife, Gracie, through a medical nightmare that includes 80+ surgeries, multiple amputations, and treatment by 100+ physicians. 

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Why not the one she can have a couple of chicken maybe it's not the get for your family, but it gives the perfect gift for poor family ninja chicken can break the cycle of poverty for poor family yes chicken chickens and provide nourishment for family and they can sell mosaics at the market for income when you donate a chicken or any other gospel for Asia. 100% of what you give goes to the field and get the ball went gospel fundraiser to support family.

Jesus family this Christmas, give them six explanation see chickens and camping Rosenberger. This is the nation's chauffeur as a family caregiver you don't know what's going on with you. This show is dedicated to those who willingly, knowingly and voluntarily, without pay for those you and McGuckin putting themselves between vulnerable of what it even worse disaster weather that loved one has Alzheimer's or autism addiction or Parkinson's or cerebral palsy or traumatic brain injury. What ever the issue. There's always a caregiver in the show focuses on that individual. There are more than 65 million of us in this country alone and I believe the numbers are growing in the age of coronavirus. That's kind of change the whole concept of of caregiving hasn't aware even afraid to send our loved ones to places because before that maybe the last time we ever see and so there are a lot of dynamics going on with with the family caregiver and we we dedicate this show to you as a family caregiver.

If you want to be a part of the show the number to call is 8770 for heaven sakes. What is that 658776556755 obstetrics look good if they are. I got it memorized caregiver for 34 years. Look what it did to get even think straight.

That's John Butler the Celt of body disco you know you love them. You've got postcards from he's the guy that week.

That is been with me from the very beginning of the show produce the show a steady hand on the till and I was sleep at the bottom of the book while thinking that I want absolutely think I'm the third watch guy that's all or nothing out.

Thank you for the intro Peter. And it is such that it really is. Yeah it what it is that it is incredible privilege to be involved with something that like you said there's there's 65 million caregivers out there and that's a really big number four rather overlooks demographic and yeah yeah I you start your sorry about that. We getting paired together, way back when and how to chauffeur caregivers mark that makes sense. But let's see how this goes and low it went for a little it went.

And we became the first radio program to ever go syndication that you would produced. You produced shows if you produce in high over 100 different not, you know, not like bikes individual shows, but like it shows that went for several months or a couple years or so. My, but several hundred radio programs and this was the first one. It really went syndication because there is such that there is there is this huge need will and you said that all the others said they were going to, but none of them ever did. Yeah, and this will it's a lot like up. You always have outliers called a liar and they are is no speed in which you know what you you which college you can looking at a bowl. Let us chicken Caesar salad.

John does dead joke every week.

For whatever reason, I have no idea when a database of jokes you yes you do in we developed the show, and now we become the number one broadcast show for family caregivers and then our podcast which today's episode is, is also the number one podcast for family kingdoms in the world and for that I'm very grateful. We know there's an audience I we know it's persists just huge amount of people and we want to make things available. Given that we had on several months ago a wonderful author, speaker and she wrote a book called the opposite of certainty and jerk Janine Urbain agreed and and I was so fascinated by her discussion and I wanted to have her back on some reach back out to her people into her and said look can can you come back on and let us open this up a little bit more and and and explore what she had to offer. Because one of the passions I have for this year was to find people who bring such depth and wisdom and insight to the conversation and then collectively we all get stronger by by having that in and I just wish I was fascinated by her and I was. She had a line because we talked about her faith through this, but she had a one that I loved. It was my faith used to be like a AAA card.

I kept my wallet to be used in emergencies until you know and and and I thought that was such a such a great line of faith used to be like a AAA card and I just thought that was great. So Janine, welcome back to the show in thank you for taking the time to be a part of this today. My pleasure and so important what you're dealing contemplating that before I called and thinking of how I relate and I felt at times as a caregiver, even among my friends who are going up going through their daily life and fill it so valuable you're providing a place where we can connect with other people who know other people who are we. We don't know we can't see them but we know there nodding their head as their listening will and I see the numbers of people that are downloading what we do here and in that I know the audience, broadcast show how how big that is. And yes your right will never see the people but I know that the need is great in and that brings me to your journey before we do before we get into your specific journey.

Would you just come to set the table of who you are and and what you do and then working to get into kind of where where this is going with you as a caregiver estimate is also been caregiver for the past include here the care given the care given to why why can't you better I like a lot like life became a very simple like wanting to try to get everything right now and I'm the mother of three children who are now young adults are in their early 20s now and you know why I grew up in an alcoholic them and I became all of these experiences of my life that people of who I would become and what faith but look like, which, of course, with my leg that faith like that strength with that model that got me through absolutely everything in my life and and so I grew up in alcoholism with you very loudly very young and parents and my dad drank and my mom took care of him and we just tried to keep things as normal as possible in the idea that if we could keep the outside. If we can keep the outside straight you know if Wheatley iron dart leotards in the 80 thinking we would very put together you know when we had the night garden in the neighborhood we could keep the outside straight the inside would come along and you know what happened in our family and my God eventually got silver and we learned about alcoholism.

We all started getting better and email it back out like that.

Letting the nature, how I became a mother. You know III tried to do in my life kill you know everything right. Check that box. Check that box and that I email I had my first baby when I was 30, and again I'm just going I'm got yet I am going to keep the child because you know while my parents were looking the other way when I was growing up some really funky abusive that happened like the mother, family members and I like nothing Ellen would hurt my get it when I was very struck out taskmasters same motherhood is a cruel and lively feel it.

So real and so genuine and we want to keep people safe and and what I came to find out you know I had three children. Five years again very nightly baby doing it all very well, and taking care you know really praying and trying to be of service in the world trying to be a really good person and what my my young son. My friend Nathan had my middle childhood hand began to shake about kindergarten started this journey like she'll relate to you now you start the journey of like what going on and seeing various doctors and being called a normal tremor and he has migraine headache adjusted diet and being that you know the good good mom, I'm making air quotes, but I want to get my mom is a good mom you're trying so hard but being a good mom, you know, that was good news for me.

Okay I can do diet I can control that diet and what eventually happened is my friend Nathan was diagnosed at 10 years old about 10 years old when he was diagnosed with an inoperable slow-growing brain tumor like Batman away. I say that are our family entered the orbit of this brain tumor and for me. You know my spiritual journey now. II also I became. I get over the part where I developed it alcoholism myself and got silver when I'm 24.

A nice picture sober when my kids were when my oldest son was born a female and I had a faith that if I get everything right email. It was like that they get the cash register kind of thing in a way you know I don't want to minimize I really I was so thin clear in my faith but there were limitations and experience with my time not force me to go deeper and to let go of a lot of plastic jump into things. One of Ms. I started adding family members of alcoholics not ask to this audience is caregivers because it felt like wherever there's a chronic disease is a chronic chronic impairment in alcoholism is a chronic disease you have to work a recovery program and wherever there is a chronic impairment. There's a caregiver, and so how do you feel about that. Somebody who was in relation with all accounts, that also wrestle with that themselves.

You do you have is how does it make your mother hang up on you if you will. You I fully agree with you, and it came out of that one of the reason that I think alcoholism is so secret and for a caregiver of an alcoholic to come out and get help for somebody and we we don't pay all your pureblood when is a bad person got sick person. We can deal with that person you know and then on I had to get help. That's how I ended up starting my sobriety turned very nice guy got help. As a child of an alcoholic, which was another.

I think I like it on well with before that was online. I'm sure it's online now but that would like a list of characteristics of children of alcoholics and if you just listen to my introduction IEP could fill it out for me. You know, perfectionism, old drive to control you know all of the things I found myself, my life had been shaped by the alcoholism.

The good news in the badness of these qualities are awful in moderation. Exactly why I absolutely agree with you.

We have these common qualities that are coping mechanisms put them they can make you very very useful in lots of situations but the business Harold become extremely valuable.

Where were all to tell this to people about caregivers. We're employers dream were highly, highly adaptable and flexible. We try to get so many things done were constantly putting out the fires and and stepping up and doing things and and that that becomes a part of our DNA and that's that. Yeah it's it's hard to to change behavior that you're getting rewarded for that moment like on that moment where it can happen at that moment, whereas I think hey Peter, I thought about and I will stay late and I will never, I will.

I will be up at you in the morning taking notes about how things should be and I will try back up into the ground and that's where the downside of that goes. And that's where the supported fill important will talk with Janine or been agreed. She's got a new book called the opposite of certainty. We we were just John and I were just enthralled with her several months ago when she was on the show and wanted to have her back on to explore this further. We were getting into the meat of where caregivers live.

We got all these issues going on with her sick child with issues with their it's apparent this alcoholic all these kinds of things. There's always a caregiver that caregiver develops his or her own challenges to go along with talk about that portable way to Roseburg. This is hope for the caregiver will be right. Have you ever struggled to trust God when lousy things happen to you. I'm Gracie Rosenberger in 1983 I experienced a horrific car accident leading 80 surgeries in both legs and became questioned why God allowed something so brutal to happen to me. But over time, my questions changed and I discovered courage to trust God that understanding along with an appreciation for quality prosthetic limbs led me to establish standing with help more than a dozen years we been working with the government of Ghana and West Africa, equipping and training local workers to build and maintain quality prosthetic limbs for their own people on a regular basis. We purchased ship equipment and supplies and with the help of inmates in a Tennessee prison. We also recycle parts from donated lambs. All of this is to point others to Christ. The source of my help and strength these visit standing with to learn more and participate in lifting others that standing I'm Gracie.

I am staining with help the caregiver. This is Peter Rosenberger. This is the nation's number one show you as a family cured of this, my wife Gracie, resilient, and she is indeed resilient washing sink to you a copy that go up to hope for the'll see the album cover right there on the front click on it and to for any tax deductible contribution to what were doing here about what you meant will sneak up and see about that, so good. Hopefully were talking with Janine or Bennett read her new book is called the opposite of certainty and she shared her journey. Alright, so let me sum up, you grew up in an alcoholic family of a family of family were with alcoholic did get sober for that.

That is, that is great news loan. The way though it led you into some uncomfortable places where you had to walk through your own sobriety but you did that, then you're going along and being a great mom and all these come things and also fun at your sunny little son has a brain tumor, things get a little bit weird. From there on out and get a little bit weird yeah I you know I like to say it like we didn't get pushed off the beaten habit like we went up a goat trail at the back of the mountain.

You know were not on the alternative plat happened in many of you can relate to that right where it like work will charting our own court day by day and my son is now 23. When the cake everybody can inhale here.

He has been living with that we've all been living with that camera that accept from time to time and we originally you know we thought out a great medical team and not with a lesson in and of itself because we had as many people can relate to, you know all start their and we eventually found a team that would work with that right that with the fact that he never expected me has a mother that became that way we could get things which are so important because no one knows our children as we get, you know, but I don't know the medicine behind brain tumor so that partnerships like this then shall I name you don't have the same partnership. The same doctors all these years later. Later. And what happened is eventually on three years then meet. We were living in an uneasy peace with maintenance tumor where he would go to school and try to get out of work by saying I have a brain tumor.

What's your problem and people we have to tell people it's okay to laugh giving you a hard time middle school teacher. How important was a sense of humor for you. Your interests everything and I know mine talk about a gift from God. He told Larry at dry sense of humor and you know how many funny that comes, we just watched and we joke you know I came across the line I meant to put in the book while driving Nathan to school and I look in the mirror and I shoot I forgot to put makeup on and he said, and all caregivers can relate to that right.depressed, that's a different story. So all mom you don't need makeup.

You don't need makeup plot. Maybe my mother's now he and his engagement and he has a lot of self-awareness at that point. 23 anything you know I use that as a coping mechanism. Now I know it's okay.

You know their own worst coping mechanisms. You know, yeah, lay there really are. We talk about on the survey important the importance of laughter awful lot and it's it's why I mission is Peter, you're going to remember, but laughter is like when she wipers they don't stop the rain but they let you get through it that yeah yeah John Butler is say the salt of the show because it's worth repeating. Yamamoto first started looking at doing the showing people, thinking it was a show about caregivers stuff and this is before I even went to John worked with him on. Jeff Foxworthy told Lisa Peter make him laugh you more than most know how painful this journey is and they've got to laugh thinking you know and one of my favorite coaches by Barry Manilow is that you know I'm not here to cure cancer.

I can make you forget about it. About an hour and 1/2 and and so when you get out there and you do you participate in music and laughter and in life. You know, everybody just said this everybody's goodhearted and we don't have to be miserable though having great.

She's got a wicked sense of humor, and she laughs like a drunk Viking you get her left you a house of the mostly with her parents aggressive. She's just blah are you both like she's in pain all the top 80 surgeries, all things going on with her and you know she does so glad to hear that Mason is got that kind of sense of humor, but it yeah I get the coping mechanism. Part of it. But you know what we could.

We could laugh and learn to to to laugh and say funny things in it we can just be mean and bitter and that's the way to live.

So yeah it's kudos to you you you John kudos Gazette that's a great new to you.

You got a great sense of humor to you that thank you and we got a big dog. You might. So what happened when there was a turning point where everything changed until Mason was 13, he was a normal kid who by the way, had a camera and had emailing him would have headache. There were small bleeds in the humerus of these you know emergency runs to the hospital but nothing was ever we manage somehow. You now and then when Mason was 13 he had a massive cerebral hemorrhage in his tumor and he was in a coma and I spent six months in the hospital is part of our story because so much is my fourth surrender is my I thought I had a path for this child and I knew what the right path was God. Don't you agree with me because my Wednesday. This is a good path. We all agree that there is a good, he had a peek at that job. He is a nice contributing person to society and eat out my plan. My plan and what happened is Mason spent seven while his first eighth grade in and you know we we went to Houston for we have spent a lot of time at Texas Children's Hospital. Big shout out there a lot of Texas children telephone Northern California so that it was a commitment and it was all so you know that family really stretching because my other tickets were in school we had to leave. You know I left them behind and could see them out and weekend basically from time to time, so it was very difficult but agreed in her book is called the opposite of certainty and you could hear the challenges she's that was your family. A mother's heart, but she wasn't dealing with just this challenge were to get into that more after the break. Just a quick break don't go away. This hope this is a show for you as a family caregiver about how you're feeling how you're doing isolation you're fighting to get this is what we speak to continues to Will Be Right Back St., Rosenberger never helped somebody walk for the first time I've had the privilege many times through our organization. Standing with hope when my wife Gracie gave up both of her legs follow this horrible Rick that she had as a teenager and she tried to save them for years and if it just wouldn't work out. And finally she relinquished up and thought wow this is that I'm not heavy legs anymore. What can God do with that and then she had this vision for using prosthetic limbs as a means of sharing the gospel to put legs on her fellow amputees and that's what we been doing now since 2005 was standing with hope. We work in the West African country of Ghana and you can be a part of that through supplies through supporting team members through supporting the work that we're doing over there. You could designate a limb.

There's all kinds of ways that you can be a part of giving the gift that keeps on walking and standing with would you take a moment ago understanding with and see how you can give they go walking and leaping and praising God. You could be a part of are you enjoying our broadcast on John Butler and I coproduced Peter show hope for the caregiver since it began. I like to think that I'm responsible for the explosive growth the shows enjoyed. I'd like to think that but while Peter pays me not to.

So let's move along all jokes aside though. I do have a great time with the show. We absolutely love it.

In this podcast we not only publish things from the show, but also include special bonus materials. We really don't want to have a subscription section, but would rather make all of this great content available for 40 caregivers you can help us do that by clicking on the become a patron button for as little as a dollar a month you can be a part of the world's number one podcast for family caregivers. There's all types of gifts that we love to give you depending on what your you like to join. Maybe it's five dollars, maybe it's time whatever you'd like. Consider sponsoring this podcast today and help strengthen family caregivers and yourself. Thanks so much and remember healthy caregivers make better caregivers know there's a lot of shows that when your wife's things that will want to use first knows the plans is what back to hopefully caregiver the speed Rosenberger. This is the show for you as a family caregiver will talk with Janine or Bennett read her journey is so real familiar so many of you listening right now a mother who's watching her child go through something that she can't take away.

But there's more. So Janine just take us back to that you get your your traveling back and forth to Texas you seen your other children, you know once a week.

Hopefully will and and while you're down there in California you're in Texas and your son has a brain tumor picked up what what's what's next what happens next.

What you know with my my plan my plans and design.

Now I like holding out all the time. Cannot get over on that normal path for go path off the mountain you know which tractor and everyone in it another way, if you know I wanted the miracle could be that humor might magically appear or just the one in Akkad and that Nathan could have the life that I find. Having you know and what I had to surrender to a couple of things. One is that the miracles were all around me like the one stop looking at that far away like that is not supposed to be happening and I could be more present and out of hospital rooms right and just be there. I noticed the miracle of the doctor who answered his own phone and we all know what that means, that is an out right but it is right. The doctor who answered his own phone and nurse's aide who had the perfect thing to say to me, a friend who was who had the perfect work hated me so there was the devil of coming back into focus and light my path right now you know I think I was waiting to live a life I recognize like okay I will get my life back and then will be okay in the meantime, we'll get through that and there was this moment in Houston where I don't know what shifted her wall at what moment, that there was a moment where it shifted where the light had caught and start living it right now so I mean you know my friend Joan very close friend of mine. I would call her and she would ask me how I'd been cared for in any given day, and I can do.

I call that God you know you can call whatever you wanted good quickness in this world and I couldn't deny the good in the story, I couldn't deny the good in any given day. Any other piece that happened in Houston when it really started taking care of myself with BS you during that time, and this is a personal question free to just hang up on John.

That's a did you feel a lot of caregivers go through that with excessive weight gain. Did that happen to you that I might not be able to eat when I am an early on, I can't yeah do the same thing under stress. I just neglects his way out doors with its it's a weight issue. We have a weight issue.

We either lose weight because were not taken. Garrisons were gaining weight because we think of yourselves as that first is that a fair statement statement. Any note for me. Great like that in my mouth that time it was the strangest experience I've ever had Strange yeah because you were in the hospital setting in the clinical setting.

Now that somehow the extra I don't know if it's a weird thing, but it just was yeah literally like that thing work like I can eat now. And now I did eat, and I did. I'm I'm pretty good about that sort of thing I keep in my blood sugar up then you know like as if I'm running a marathon or something. I'm pretty good about having protein bars in my purse on facility over eating well. Sugar is always a thing for me so the problem I have a job is that I don't have all the chocolate you I knew I had to make a change that I got so big I was leaving footprints and dry concrete make some changes to the gristle that would most tourist I have these hypothesis that I put out there because of watch to the tricks of the caregivers.

Just like there were no then just check and see. Okay, here's a caregiver who with the very stressful situation help. What part of food plated is unit report social control and food can be a very tricky thing to someone like we yet we want to exert some control over our lives when we might feel that we have none could be a way that people do without stowed something to keep an eye yeah how did you about your flight was sobriety. During this time I might.

This is personal. You don't have to. I wrote about it. I feel like if I wrote about it, it's all that talk about it. Relevant right.

We want comfort you know I had gotten.

When I got sober I got some good habit and one of them like to have a circle support group and Danielle my friend John was a part of my big part of my support group and my mentor for many years and sobriety and I thank God that I had had those relationships and the straw the strong bonds because that is what carried me and sobriety. And I knew you know I knew that I couldn't do what I needed to do and drink, but he didn't even actually, the urge or the desire to drink didn't come up. It was more like I just want off this planet. I don't really want to guide but I want there to be some other way, where like I had panic like I could get my family like we could all go somewhere but I don't know where that is where a brain tumor that was more like I just want out.

You know you just stay round-the-clock at the hospital room kind of thing that work will we get my head and I when we were Northern California where my damper children's for two months that Emily did switch off and take night and my parents were nearby and might you know this is also a miracle, a sobriety story my God is one of my close people and my mom and Mary to each other anymore but but he'll be out. We took ships with Nathan and Emily went to Houston. It was a little tougher and we either with the client that was that moment actually the one I was talking about in Houston where I was like I got a take care of myself. Anyway, that was when I got spending the night in the hospital. Mainly were I think four months then and I had to get even just physically leave and lay flat net that they have a thing so-called sleeping chairs, which is great for hospitalwide but you know it's noisy.

Yes, this will lead me DVD just to hear talk to that individual who is spending the night at the hospital and let them know, what was the trigger for you to say okay it's okay for me to go in go somewhere else and sleep. I feel like I wall like and I and and there was little voice in my head, which have and Hannity saying you're not that you cannot do for Mason what needs to be done and keep it that way. So I'm you know at this codependent person. Another result of the alcoholism. I grew up in an email. I'm aware that I'll do, I'll do anything for my cat. I'll do anything for people. I love when it came to taking care of myself in this way is for the greater good that when I was able to make the shift.

Now I have to say I did that and I was convinced that the nurse was checking me. I was convinced that she thought it was a horrible mother now. She did not say that those were the words going around in my mind you know and and that night he was in this wonderful hospital.

He had very capable capable nurses and our hotel with right across the street and I would I was five minutes away tell you know. And sometimes we have to take that guilt is going to come up they can stop and and I again I had to start considering that more of a marathon and how could I gain pay for the long haul. In the long haul. It turned out to be the better part of 10 years now, but if not we meet we deal with different issues now. Then we did it during during hospitalization switch to your health, with one key with you. Really not fair right wrong with my comment to God my prayer with okay come on you know you have to be kidding but yeah I would have to think about how old I am, because I was diagnosed by serial did not volunteer that I'm five years ago I was diagnosed with a low grade. We are big on the low-grade cancers here in our family. Hopefully I mean that's a good thing I a low-grade breath.

If you gotta pick one. One of my closest friends. Now it is the training wheels. She was choking me a lot and ongoing training will work work now line going in the book, so I ended up you know again and I want to and I don't want to say that like all all women who had cancer should have this treatment because I am the last person is going to tell anybody how they should treat their cancer because I that sort of certainty was running out of me very early in Mason journey. I don't know what anybody else should you.

I ended up getting a double mastectomy because of a lot of good reasons for me, but I don't know what I support women in doing what is right for them.

That is what I think they should do and get out again and feel good about, you know, feel like they fit feel good about their doctors and whatnot so I had a very, very, I had a minor cancer and is very major, very difficult surgery and that was another surrender and that was another God and Navarrete email, but what happened to me. You know that I think that about that point I got run out of me with the question why the integration of talk about the love it's kind of loose question. In some respects, we we all ask you to comes to be a point when you think okay what you got until these commitments met before he would say okay I got feel better now.

Now that I know what is this not really the question. Our soul is crying out for me wanting to be cared for you.

Just what we just don't want to be alone.

We want to be loved. We will know that assurance that we are loved and that we were were cared for you. That's a good word. Did you work with Mason in the hospital when this happened in Texas already back home now back home for a while now made that brain injury, traumatic brain injury that massive blade in his brain and he still rehabbing.

So he was. He wasn't quite on a different journey in life, you know, not one I've learned one not more valuable than the other. He's just on a different path as I keep saying so he he waves at he was in high school. Actually when that happened and that which is also talk about. Apparently all and he actually went to the prom while I went rehabbing at home. My husband drove him Awesome. That's good. Yeah yeah it was but your the kids during this to all this there amazing people and I like that I would've wanted them to learn empathy and compassion from a paper done from actual tragedy is gearing right in it. I was in charge of that either, so they could fight when when I was away. They sacrificed me being here night we tried really really hard with our extended family to fill the land that you know there's nothing like mom and dad so good on the good news, I like focus on the good news is that if my my son and my daughter Sarah are amazing people and they had this that that comes from having locked or really hard times so that you know still today.

You know they show up. They help out there brother Mason's been having a rough go lately and they are only present when Hamlet says talk about if I have my eyes on that miracle. I have no doubt that were being cared for and there's so much good in this world that this gotta be deeply rewarding to look at my sons and integration of both. It's kind of like a week with the so many visits to the hospital so many knots we had to be shipped off to be with grandparents something such as that.

And they've literally carried their mother on their back times and are fun, strong young men who we are most grateful for. And I'm like you, I would've preferred. I wanted them to be empathetic, but I would've preferred the door from a much safer distance and yet this is the journey and and I like to hear what's going on with other siblings involved because they have their own journey to they didn't ask for this anymore than there wounded sister sibling to know and so they have to adjust to this in the cells like you and your family have had some very frank conversations around the kitchen table. I saw I think that EL. What of the things I pray for medical team at Stanford and our neural oncologist was buried one of our first meetings with panic and we talked about the importance of being honest and age-appropriate. So we had good counsel from the start and I think that is essential about your stuff well well make the ears of an elephant.

Let me just say he was going to be keeping any secrets around here, but by that time, Maryland in middle school and was in high school, Mason was in high school and you know Mason bonds.

I remember we we brought everybody together. When we got this information and I have the surgery, cancer is the doctor does not think it's gonna kill me very curable and that is why many go through and Nathan that he would hospital brings tears to my eyes, sobbing with in the hospital.

Mom and cannot get enteric and hug me and you know they can they help they are really good. You know what I like to talk about faith being on my phone and that the demonstration of unwanted the muscle to write were doing were doing and and they do they really do do they they will help out. You know, bring food there just their presence was so wonderful to have you got married not yet know to be a little bit interesting moment when the when they take all that you and your husband have invested them into another relationship and that that will be a very interesting and moving moment for you like it I can say that from personal experience with her older son got married know he's there expecting their third child and so it is hard to look to get me it's it's easy to believe a grandfatherly part of luscious grandmother's brownie points on years of trying to know.

I watched Parker deal with that and I think I want you with that moment happens. I hope you remember this conversation been come back of the show talk about it and see how they engage with their significant other with that with that person comes in their life and they build that relationship and they bring all that your family has dealt with and then there someone else into that world and it's it's it's it's it's hard to describe unless you've been there and then you will be there very shortly. I would imagine you talked about so like faith being a muscle or love being a muscle and Peter's children review the only way you build muscle as you lift heavy things and they've lifted an awful lot of heavy things as layers. There is also this will yeah exactly so rips going to marry. We hate for them, but at the same time we don't take what they become because of the play and so we just have to trust God until some of the other day about you lately were said about the PMC's and we love the way you play the piano in this business will love the way up with the PO now love the way you write and communicate. I hate how I got here so you know and as I listen to you speak and in the things that you've written and you are you are colorless at your commentator, but you didn't just decide to write a book about this you been a writer for some time and and I would imagine your writing has really evolved through this process is and one other thing I like high tolerance for like what's not true tolerance for a lot of superficiality anymore one of those other things that were brought was running out of me.

So I ended dive pretty deep and I like that about me kill you know this is so refreshing is just to see you. I just don't have the tolerance for this. This is not a part of my life. I've got to cut this way it is. It's superfluous to build number so most of that you the in times and don't you think Jesus is coming here this this look all the sudden, how does that help me take care of my crippled wife today. Jesus good have to come back when Jesus comes back to the beat of a got work to do this don't have that that is not my but my month to manage it, and I think what happens with us along the way, is that we start realizing I was doing a thing that Elizabeth was the toughest thing you've ever faced secured and here's my answer and I will hear this. My answer to them was after 34 years this knowing what is mine and what is not mine to carry. That is the toughest thing I face on a daily basis with me secured and I've got a fairly extensive resume, but that to me is the nutshell for me because I'm constantly overreaching on what is not mine to carry his house at what the hell is that striking my money right now my head like a bobble head and I even caught myself, I would say well were having when Nathan was younger and had chemo were having chemo were having an and I went and I it wasn't like I can't name it what I eat. I have that separation as if it was happening to his body.

It was happening to me. You now and understandable when your child really gone, but at some point there. I get it.

It's been very hot and hard to make that transition to Nathan as a young man and a young adult who had a lot of ideas about how his life should be as he should write and and and want to hear about his care and whatnot and for me to learn to stop talking is hard for me you so that you have to bite your tongue a little like the taste of blood most likely that that like you don't like it. I'm not grateful with the deep cleansing breath that they're not like not all like lighting in the corner at the other thing know I carry my brown bag with me just to be something that was it. Cut but it you know the truth will set you free. But this your first and it so that we moved up to Southwest Montana and my ourselves with back southeast and we sold Gunderson last month of the oh also be here this month and will see them with you know notwithstanding, we will see them on fairly regular basis, but we moved out here for a lot of reasons, but I was just kind of planning the way I really miss them and a friend once told me he said I know you miss them but you need them more right now than they need you. Then I thought how it when you poured your soul into it that's that's a hard thing to feel like parts of his being kind of ripped apart and you gotta develop a new relationship.

As you develop this new relationship with Mason to be hard for so I think we can be so where on different Track different track. And then, anything come up that are so normal that the young man needs to indicate that you ate from his mother go pick out right now but the big talk about on the show was know this is not all the things we talk about are not specific to caregivers, but the crucible of being a caregiver just amplifies everything in the idea of being a parent having the back off of your now grown children is a pretty common experience.

But when you're dealing with it again in this you know just firebox of of all of the things that we cut a deal with it ends up feeling a lot worse. Pleasant wellness and we are we are at the end of the show Janine.

I wanted to wicked people go to find out more about you. Your books and everything else okay well I care on I'm on Facebook Janine Urbana grade and then the bucket on all the online retailers, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, the independent bookstores should have it. Kayla called the opposite of certainty and you can find you are you doing audiobook of this. In audiobook available right now. It's not my place wicked.

I couldn't listen to because it was a little weird. My words come out of that one out. What was your little Jackson to do it, and then you can finance social media update about me than in pictures of our goofy patent all the fun stuff of life will you have become a real treasure to the show and I want you to know you have an open petition because I need to hear from your journey and I know our listeners do his will, and thank you for opening up your heart and share little bit more and I'm glad that your you're walking in love and healing with your own cancer issues that you've gone through with all the sobriety stuff that you had to deal with our best to all three of your children, your whole family.

I want to hear reports. Would love to hear follow-ups with okay I would love to come back.

I enjoyed it so much. Thank you. This is over. The sugar was. Hope you had a good time

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