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August 3, 2020 3:17 pm
“If defensiveness is going up in the loved one, you can draw some conclusion about what the caregiver is doing.” Dr. Liz Barnett brings a new tool for family caregivers: Motivational Interviews. All too many caregivers find themselves floundering in the drama that occurs when trying to get compliance. Maybe it's downsizing, wanting someone to take their meds, brush their teeth, or the myriad of things we face as caregivers. Dr. Barnett brings easy to understand tools to help us as caregivers take the first step in better relationships, less drama, and more efficacy while caring for our loved ones.
Peter Rosenberger is the host of HOPE FOR THE CAREGIVER. The nation's #1 broadcast and podcast show for family caregivers, Peter draws upon his 34+ year journey as a caregiver for his wife, Gracie, through a medical nightmare that includes 80+ surgeries, multiple amputations, and treatment by 100+ physicians.
Learn more at www.HopefortheCaregiver.com
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John is talking actually sleep were books sleep you were books sleep under the covers is always a pleasure to its fist just would W with John listen. One of the things that we like to do on the show was find things that will be permitted to right now for the family caregiver. It's not something it's not theory. It's not something way down the road. Whatever it is it is right now that's scratching that it's her hitting that uncomfortable spot right now you can do today that whatever you some practical advice to us.
We do all of it. I hesitate high-minded lowbrow is probably a better bike week. We do those things that will generally help you take care take care of yourself.but then there are sometimes acute problems that need to be dealt with as opposed to no longer one of those one of those is today. It is about individuals who are struggling with a noncompliant love one that there caring for specifically working a deal in today with hoarding and and letting go of things not hoarding, I guess, really, but but things that are our are keeping us, locked into some kind of the past it.
We can't let go of these things it would Have to because we've held onto somebody these things for so long and and yet we have a loved one that we get that stage where we all get there. What we just can't let go of it and it's it it's hurting or whatever or sometimes and what will will swerve into this to maybe they don't want to take medication, maybe they don't want to deal with khakis or or yeah you with khakis or even deal with eating healthier. You can only eat little Debbie for so long and then you got you your big so Dr. Liz Barnett is with this. She is from California got a PhD in preventive medicine and then she swerved into this particular field. She's not double stuff with addiction and alcoholism and so forth. And then she swerved into this particular component really drilling down on helping the relationships of the dynamics of Dr. Barnett. Welcome to the show we are so glad to have you here how you feel, caring, getting out right out of the gate. John sees our eyes to describe the problem because you dealt with this you do motivational interviews. That's an unusual turn of the people that may be familiar with, but you do motivational interviews. What is that mean what's going on and how does this apply to the family caregiver so an approach and it's a way of thinking about people, about thinking about change conversation and it really quite doable right so I do it and I know what talk to people or help people that an exacting situation that you're describing with somebody feeling really stuck on a problem you know they're trying to get someone to do something the doctor told him to do it and it is not doing it for like that's what I can come in and have the conversation and at the same time, the thing that I the conversations that I have a pretty straightforward and people can really learn how to do it and they can learn how to do it better since like substance, serial Corsican to consist right intent just in time to stuff yeah so really key to cloud this idea of ambivalence that would so that you know when you're talking about change or doing something that they don't mind doing that. We think that people feel two ways about something. Maybe a big part of them that doesn't want to is an interested small part of them that like yeah I know I should support you really want to be talking to you want to find out more about that part of them. You want to hear that story and the more they talk about that the more you hear them talk about that little part of them that might want to clean out the house.the part that grows so a lot of what you're doing, and motivational interviewing on what you're learning to do is listen and pray that some of that other stuff go because sometimes that other stuff kind of access and can be kind of provocative.
It might make us mad, but we can start to listen for those little bit of hope possibility change all of that actually start to really help somebody to make a change that in the past and things that they haven't wanted to make you give us an example somebody that you talked about this and or or work through this issue with the helicopter played out the treaty case competency just general stuff so what will happen if somebody else you know will reach out to me and you have a problem right and so you know it happened right, you can just imagine the person that I'm that person with the problem." You can just assume that they're going to be a bit defensive about the conversation right somebody out. The thing that I have a problem and most of us don't appreciate that happening.
The first thing that I would use this happened to me recently I was speaking with somebody start talking standout is a totally different story right up that I was given by the third-party right to kind of suggested the conversation needed to happen in their mind that person with resistant this person didn't want to make a change. This person didn't want to de-clutter the house like we were talking about.
And when I get on the phone with them these days is all over the phone but not when I'm hearing it all and what that shows that is really that had what you end up hearing has so much to do with the other person in the conversation right because it's very easy for us to make people defensive to get into the argument with somebody but if you can stay out of the argument something else happened. So this woman and I we had a really positive conversation about what she wanted to do and her ideas about how to do it and your ideas about what's been getting in the way but not too much focus on that because I will try to steer the conversation towards how things will be when this is done, you know what will be the good things that will come out of it as well as just you know there their own ideas about how to do it might a lot of times we come in you by coming to conversation our caregiver might come into conversation with this is what I think you should do what you really want to be able to stay back and stay out of it and what are your ideas about how this you know how this could work like that person is ready to plan, we caregivers tend to be speaks of my own personal expense are to be a bit heavy-handed because we come in. We say we seal these issues. Are these circumstances and we think of things this is this is were to fix this and the hard thing for us is to back off on this and let let the person let the cup but the conversation with the crisis. If you will breathe a little bit is that a fair assessment of what you're saying.
I heavy-handed I feel like I'm heavy-handed with my kids right same idea yeah like being able to step back right to not feel all the pressure right and that part of it is that pressure makes it feel like it has to be done now right in this conversation. Conversation done, and motivational interviewing style will feel a lot more will feel gentle and it'll feel slow you mean it is slow.
In fact, you can get change a lot faster using the slow approach then you can start abusing the direct approach right but yes I think that's a perfect way to describe it.
So situation is really the person who is in the way of this thing growing involving can often be the character, is that a fair statement in order to do it your idea that in order to do this. The caregiver has to actually be the first one to change or to throw argument be able to yeah, somebody's got a raise her hand and say okay I'm willing to take this particular case it's off to go to be the caregiver and yet we don't know what to change to, and we don't know how to change or we don't know how to quite make that step.
But here's what here's where you step into be able to help us do that and really want that when I'm training to do motivational interviewing what I end up teaching mode is about listening and and one thing I love about reflective listening, sending that mirroring back if you're mirroring back what you're hearing you are not doing something else right you are not telling someone what to do.
You are not being critical, you are not judging you are not you know that I think you are not doing. Because your listening and some people when we talk about effective listening is important to know there's connect to two levels. There's one this is a really simple level where you just kind of repeating what somebody said which can be effective in some cases and in other cases, it will be even more deeper level of reflective listening.
We really trying to hear someone's meaning the meaning behind the words.
When you do that when people really come together when you really kind and where they're coming from, and the first thing that I would say you know where to start is to really just start with listening will, we do so a lot is the vocabulary we need is diverse be able to change something because vocabulary words mean something and so would you say reflective listening. Give us an example of what this phrase means something that people could use right now to use those words kind of way to start with. The thing is to use that phrase sounds like what I said sounds like I'm forced to tell you what it just sounds like you just said so I might if somebody saying I'll never be able to clean out my house right I could say sound like you been thinking about it so they didn't say they been thinking about it, but that's part of their statement right is that these are the thoughts that come up with so I can mirror back that I can mirror the.back to them so that is likely the great way to start.
That is a great way to start. Yes, that is. So that's what we'll do. This is something that caregivers can say right now.
Just heard you say this in the next conversation they have with their loved one. They could be looking for a different way of reflecting back to the and gas.
This is this is why wanted to have you on the show so when you dealt with these with these individuals in your reflecting this.
But if you're teaching them a new vocabulary. Do you find that people that you're trying to work with on this.
Not the backup is understood from caregiver love one caregiver left one who did you talk to more the caregiver of the loved one or both or how does it work well cared more caregivers but recently I've been talking to my left one will see what we got to quick break would you hold onto that thought from you because this was a very specific things. When asked about that and so were talking with Dr. Liz Barnett motivational interviews, motivational speaking, motivational interviews, was your your engaging your actively listening you're trying to do something different than just come in with the heavy-handed and white through. Hopefully the level will comply with what you're wanting something to do it just out of fear or just resignation.
Let's do it out of genuine sense of preserving the relationship don't go away will be right back. Have you ever struggled to trust God when lousy things happen to you. I'm Gracie Rosenberger in 1983 I experienced a horrific car accident, leading to 80 surgeries in both legs and became I questioned why God allowed something so brutal to happen to me. But over time, my questions changed and I discovered courage to trust God that understanding along with an appreciation for quality prosthetic limbs led me to establish standing with help more than a dozen years we been working with the government of Ghana and West Africa, equipping and training local workers to build and maintain quality prosthetic limbs for their own people on a regular basis. We purchased ship equipment and supplies and with the help of inmates in a Tennessee prison. We also recycle parts from donated lambs. All of this is to point others to Christ. The source of my help and strength, please visit standing with help.com to learn more and participate in lifting others that standing without.com. I'm Gracie. I am staining without Tom's Facebook. This love-hate relationship with. I set up follow what they asked to do this you know and then also the discos completely and I wasn't even posting videos of Nigerian doctors talk about project of what happens. It just goes completely to get them and in so anyway we put back up and then we broadcast the show love on Saturday mornings at 8 AM Eastern time and that we depart just before that. I also tried streaming live podcast this week, just a test without you. It was not personal. I just wanted I saw I saw that you look so I just wanted to test a little bit but anyway helps were working on that. John are taking the show in the pot. Yes, we have the nation's number one broadcast in the nation's number one podcast for the family caregiver and we would put as much information as we possibly can to help fill little caregivers are. I didn't have anything like this for the vast majority of my caregiver journey, which is known as 34th year and and so I will make sure that we have this library available on any topic, and in this is one that fascinated me with unfettered by Dr. Burnett and she's with this from Dr. Liz Barnett and she has this extensive background in preventive medicine with addiction stuff, alcoholism, and now she's even going deeper into this and helping bridge these these real hot flash hot flashes, clock points, flashpoint hot topics. That's what I meant to say John topics with with families that are really come to loggerheads over this because you got a if a loved one who is aging, not not necessarily in cognitive decline anymore than normal and they don't want to take their meds they don't want to eat healthy. Didn't want to drink water.
They don't want to brush their teeth. They don't want to get rid of stuff that they need to get rid of and things like that is the downsized and then what happens is the family members come in with just these these huge demands and and and heavy handedness and things and that also the relationship starts. By the time this thing gets to a crisis point you sometimes relationships fractured Dr. Barnett's as you know what, there's a better way.
There's a better way to do this so we left you before the break you were talk about historically is to do the shooting was more caregivers but because the covert, 19 challenges the fourth you dealing with this with the loved one. The which one do you feel the most resistance from that's maybe not a fair question, but I will ask anyway. May 20 feel the distance from the loved one of the caregiver to me so I family somebody does come in and you different conversation right so if a loved one is approached by somebody who not really neutral in the situation you will hear a very different conversation and that's kind of been the experience like where I'm talking with somebody in their loved caregivers also in the room can hear this different conversation and it's like they never say those things to me. I've never heard that I've never heard any of that.
So it actually really easier with the loved one to get this different conversation I thought I would say it's actually harder for the caregiver to change the things that they're saying and doing actually that surprising right first. People are pretty bad judges of the things they say and do and it's hard to stop yourself in midstream or change enough some patterns that you've developed over, you know, whatever it is 2030 4050 years. Yes, you will be there long term relationship, so communication has pretty you don't get get patterns entrenched yeah yeah and I can speak for myself on that that me changing this is rather difficult and because I'm not. You had to learn everything I learned the hard way that that my self-awareness is suspect. And so, as it is for the cooperative freezer for the months that you, my mind is a dangerous place to go into unaccompanied and there's a phrase that I've learned to lean on. Don't believe everything you think that because we we deceive ourselves, and or were just blonde. We have big blind spots and we think were coming across with the but we judge yourself our intentions not disturb our behavior that for me that's been a big problem is that something you've encountered run into with folks that she think she said stuff was a little bit of hesitancy what they do or how they come across or you know what their what they are bringing to the table and in it so much easier to see what the other person is no other. We can we can see other people very clearly.
But when it comes ourselves. It's very difficult was like a bandit smoking dope gives up a place to sit and they are just thinking they are mixed this to hear the next day, thing, as usual nails, but I've actually is right in the music business. There's an old saying this is old school music business. The tape don't live in so we we have to.
But as caregivers we don't go around recording ourselves well.
I would like they similar expression and motivational interviewing. We would save the best feedback you'll ever get about your skills is the reaction of the other person. If defensiveness is going up in the loved one can be pretty. You can draw some conclusions about what caregiver is actually doing that other person you're talking to is giving you feedback about your skills and if we can just then recognize it is not. Instead of being kind of sucked into what happened that that becomes the signal to start to change when I work with people I play try try to help them do is find the signals that you know that they can recognize like oh I'm about to tell someone what to do and I try to give them an alternative, you asked me earlier and more thing. Things you could say, and I gave you this sounds like another thing that I know that I love to hear people say to use the phrase from your perspective right where you want to ask a question about the other person's perspective) and in that phrase I I believe also contains like tenant's acknowledgment that we all know in this room that I have a perspective that I'm interested in your perspective from your perspective, what would be the good things about cleaning up or you know, eating, changing your diet great words we use break but thank you so much for taking the time of this.
How can people get in touch this with Dr. Barnett.com DR LIC DAR any.com willing to talk about this Barnett thank you so much for joining us today.
Have you back on because we got more to mind with this. This is a great topic. Thank you very much. This is hopefully caregiver will be right but your help somebody walk the first time I've had the privilege many times through our organization. Standing with hope when my wife Gracie gave up both of her legs follow this horrible Rick that she had as a teenager and she tried to save them for years and if it just wouldn't work out.
And finally she relinquished up and thought wow this is that I'm not heavy legs anymore.
What can God do with that and then she had this vision for using prosthetic limbs as a means of sharing the gospel to put legs on her fellow amputees and that's what we been doing now since 2005 was standing with hope. We work in the West African country of Ghana and you can be a part of that through supplies through supporting team members through supporting the work that were doing over there. You could designate a limb. There's all kinds of ways that you could be a part of giving the gift that keeps on walking and standing with hope.com would you take a moment ago understanding with hope.com and see how you can give they go walking and leaping and praising God. You could be a part of email@example.com as a caregiver. Think about all the legal documents you need power of attorney will, living wills, and so many more than about such things as disputes about medical bills.
What if instead of shelling out hefty fees for a few days of legal help. You paid a monthly membership, law firm for life while we are taking legal representation and making some revisions in the form of accessible, affordable, full-service coverage. Finally, you can live life know you have a lawyer in your back pocket who at the same time is empty. It's called legal shield and its practical, affordable and a must for the family caregiver visit caregiver legal.com that's caregiver legal.com. Isn't it about time someone started advocating for you www.dotcaregiverlegal.com on independent associate