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Fun fact, no. I have to make my own with McDonald's Sprite, and you guessed it, Texas Pete. I am genuinely horrified to hear that.
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Where's my Mountain Dew? You're listening to Clear View Today with Dr. Abidhan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. You can find our show online by visiting ClearViewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, write in and let us know at 252-582-5028, or you can email us at contact at ClearViewTodayShow.com.
That's right. We want you guys to help us keep the conversation moving forward. You can do that by supporting the show.
You can do that by sharing it online with your friends and family. Leave us a good review on iTunes or Spotify. Absolutely nothing less than five stars because why? Why? Because why? Why would you do that? Yeah.
We're going to leave some links in the description so you can do just that. The verse of the day today comes from Luke chapter six, verse 27. But I say to you who fear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you. But I don't want to. I don't want to do that kind. I don't like that way.
I don't want to do that way. You're talking about love your enemies, man. That's what they're my enemies for. Didn't David say bring destruction to my enemies, Lord? Isn't that what he said?
He said it. Yeah. I don't know that we can pray that, though. The prayers like that are not really prescriptive.
True. Here's the thing. Jesus is not here to contradict the Old Testament. He's not here to, what you call it?
To undo it. Yeah. He doesn't want to undermine it. He, in fact, takes it up a notch. Right. Exactly. So he's showing the standard.
He's showing that holy ultimate standard. And it's difficult because it goes against human nature. Where David and the Psalms are expressing this human emotion that God has given us, Jesus is saying, listen, the standard is much higher than human standards. You have to love your enemies because God is love. And I think that's really the ultimate thing is that you do that not because it's the quote unquote right thing to do, it's because that is what is godly. That is of God's nature. Well, loving your friends and family comes naturally.
It's sort of the bare minimum. Loving your enemies is much more difficult, but isn't that what God did with us? That's right. The Bible says that while we were still enemies, Christ died for us. That's when Jesus was sent while we needed him. Not when we were allied with God and we were part of the family of God. We were enemies.
We were far off. We were children of God's wrath. And that's when Christ loved us to die for us and redeem us from our sins. So we at least should show that love to other people.
Hundred percent. That's a verse that speaks to my heart. We wanted to speak to your heart as well. And you can get the Date the Word app on your phone right this very moment. They're a partial sponsor of today's episode.
Every single day connects today's date to God's word with the hope of making it more memorable for you. Ryan, we got something in the mail today. Mail. Oh, yeah. I thought it was going to be a little quicker. Do you want to hit it one time? Mail, it never fails.
It makes me want to wag my tail. When it comes, I want to mail. We got a letter. I'm doing jazz hands. Oh, yeah.
Do some jazz hands, too. Yeah. Got a letter, a handwritten letter, if you can believe it. That's not true. It's an email, but it's from Blake W. from Georgia.
Presumably they typed it, so I guess kind of by extension, handwritten. Blake W. from Georgia said, and this one was really fun. I was going to save this one.
Well, hold on. What do you think the W stands for? Oh, W. That's Wario. Blake Wario. Blake says, wah.
He goes, wah, you're cheating. He said, I was listening to the show last week about the guy who got exposed by the flight attendant. If you didn't hear the show last week, you can go back and listen to that one.
Unfortunate day for him and really everyone. I think that one was June 19th. You can go back and listen to that one. But basically, we were on a flight, and there was a guy that went into the bathroom. The flight attendant came, tried to open the bathroom. I said, hey, don't go in there.
There's a guy in there. She said, forget you. She said, no, there's not. That's not true.
She wrenched open the door. Sure enough, there was a guy in the bathroom. So Blake W. says, I was listening to the show last week about that guy. I'm not joking when I say I've had the exact same experience happen to me. Blake, are you kidding me? Blake, I'm so sorry.
You're kidding me. Yeah. I'm so sorry for you.
Deep condolences from the Clearview Today family. He said, have you guys ever had any horror stories with flight attendants? With flight attendants? Not personally me, but I've seen flight attendants go off on people.
Oh, yeah, yeah, 100%. We were on a flight back from Greece. And there was a passenger out, Dave, I don't know if you remember this. There was a passenger who flipped his lid on one of the flight attendants because it was apparently too cold in the cabin. He was like, this is inhumane. Do not feel this.
And I was like, dude, put a jacket on. Calm down. People show their entire behinds on a plane.
I don't know what it is. I don't know if they're just wore out or if they're... Maybe he was tired. Maybe he'd been traveling. Maybe his previous flight had gotten delayed or canceled.
So maybe he was like, his fuse was short. But calm down, first of all. Yeah, I didn't have beef with a flight attendant. When the whole COVID thing was going on with the masks, we did have some flight attendants who were really, really... You could tell they were going to get in trouble if I didn't have my mask all the way up.
So it would come down beyond my nose. And then they would be like, sir, we really, really need to ask that you put your mask up. And I'm like, my mask is up? I was like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
But then it would slip down over the course of a five hour flight. And they were like, sir, we really cannot keep asking you. And I was like, what is the problem?
I was like, oh, it's slipping. Okay, my bad. But I didn't like... I'm not going to start beef with a flight attendant.
I did see a flight attendant one time. This was kind of funny. This guy was like mouthing off to her. And she stood up for herself, but it came at a weird time. It was really weird. He was like, I can't remember.
I think he wanted to drink alcohol and they weren't serving it on that flight. And he was like, this is just ridiculous. And she was like, sir, I completely understand. He was like, no, I mean, what kind of service is this?
Like, I'm paying tickets and I'm paying money and you should be able to serve me the drink that I want. And she was like, I understand, sir, but if you would just listen to me. And he was like, no, I mean, seriously, I think this is inhumane. She was like, hey, hey, you can't talk to me like that. Don't ever talk to me like that.
I was like, geez, that came out of nowhere. And she like ran away. And I was like, he didn't escalate. You were completely fine with him disrespecting you.
And then all of a sudden she grew a back form. I'm going to ask Dr. Shaw what his experience with flight attendants are. He's been on a lot more flights than we do, so he's probably got some gyms. Yeah, I think it'll be the same though, because we're a pretty, not docile, but we're pretty like amiable bunch. You know, we don't, I don't really got no beef. If the flight attendants got an attitude, I'm just going to look at my, Dr. Shaw is the same.
I feel like I'm just going to look at my book, do my thing, go on about your business. But I bet he's seen some flight attendants go off on people. I am sure.
Let's ask him. Write in and let us know if you've ever had an encounter with a flight attendant like that, or maybe you are the flight attendant that has had a difficult encounter with a passenger. I want to hear your story. Yeah, your stories probably could be published somewhere. Write in and let us know, 2-5-2-5-8-2-5-0-2-8, or you can visit us online at clearytodayshow.com. We'll be back after this. Elizabeth, my darling bride, what would you say is the most beneficial thing you could do for yourself in the morning? Probably drink an entire pot of coffee when visiting?
I'd say that's a close second. Now, the best thing you can do for yourself is to start every morning with a daily devotional. Only be one to talk about.
Well, as it turns out, we have two. Right now, you can unlock the power of daily inspiration, wisdom, and spiritual growth in our devotional series, 30 Days Through a Crisis and 30 Days to a New Beginning. Written by our pastor, Dr. Abaddon Shaw, and his wife, Nicole, the 30 Days Devotional Series is designed to reveal new biblical truths every single day. That's right, and every day is a new revelation to guide you on your Christian journey toward a more meaningful and purposeful life. You can pick up your copy today from our website, that's clearviewbc.org, or you can grab both books on Amazon, Apple Books, and Audible.
That's 30 Days Through a Crisis and 30 Days to a New Beginning by Abaddon and Nicole Shaw. And don't forget, these are only the first two in an expanding devotional series, so keep your eyes peeled for future installments. Thanks for listening. Now let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abaddon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com.
If you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. That's right. We're here once again in the Clear View Today studio with Dr. Abaddon Shaw, who's a PhD in New Testament Textual Criticism, alongside special guest today, Ms. Victoria Collins. So good to see you.
It's a little louder than I thought it was going to be, but I'm going to power through. Dr. Shaw, Victoria, I got a question for you guys. I'm going to give you each a million dollars. That's a million dollars. We'd love that.
Yeah, I'd love that for you guys. You can do it. You can spend it on whatever you want. But every time you sit down to eat a meal, there's a 5% chance it'll just explode.
Just all over the living room, all over the kitchen, wherever you're eating it. Victoria, do you want to go first? I'm definitely taking the money because with all the kids, that's the 75%. It's going to happen anyway. So yeah, I'm ready for it.
It's not exploding with like fire and explosives. I'll take it. Absolutely. You sit down to a bowl of tomato soup and you go to eat it. Boom. But how hot is it? I mean, it's as hot as the meal is. Okay. You can, like once you sit down at the table, it'll happen.
So you don't have to like stick your face over it or whatever. But you're taking it. If you have little kids, you know it's going to happen sooner or later. Right. True. True. And you're last to eat anyways, so it's definitely not hot.
Largely for the same reason. Little kids, I mean, there's food that's going to wind up in various places. I mean, I'm a parent of little kids, but I'm not like that. Ellie's like that where she's like, I have to make sure they've eaten or are in bed. Then at 10 o'clock, I sit down to eat.
I was like, bro, just sit down and eat at the same time. They can't do it. It's just, that's how it is. Fair enough. Well, Victoria, it's good to have you on the show. Dr. Shah, do you want to kind of explain how this came to be?
Yes. So one Sunday morning, you know, I always go to the back of the church or at the front doors in the lobby and I'm greeting people or wishing them well, have a wonderful day. And this lady comes by and she said, hey, so I don't know how you said it, but it was, it was just very jarring because usually people don't say that.
It's like, I came from a Mormon background. You need to have me on your show. I got time to mince words. I got a message.
That's right. That's what you did say that it's a good one, but it was just a heart that came through. I knew it was not just like, Hey, I need to be on your show.
It was more of, I have something that will touch someone's life and it's real. Wow. And I was like, Hey, I need you to send me an email. We need to connect. Yes.
And procrastination. Of course it took me two weeks to send that out, but I was so gracious and I kept checking out my, my junk folder. I was like, maybe she did. Maybe she did something that I'm asking these guys. Yeah. It was in my drafts.
Yeah. And I had no idea what, who this person is. Cause I hadn't met you before. So I'm like, who is this person? Who is this person?
I don't know. And then we're over here doing the thing where like you have to pretend like, you know, what's going on. So he's like, Hey, would you check on the email from Victoria Collins? And rather than be like, who is that? I'd be like, Oh, yeah, I'll check on it. Yeah, sure. Sure. I didn't really know the name at the time.
I was like, this lady, she is coming from a Mormon background. So tell me if you get the email. Right.
We finally did get it. It was good. It's interesting. It's great. Yeah. That's awesome.
We're excited to have you on the show today. Cause I feel like this is something that people sort of know adjacently. Like maybe they know someone who is connected or they, you know, have had a friend one time, but they don't really know the, you know, the ins and outs of what it, what Mormonism is and what it looks like to have grown up Mormon, but then, you know, come to faith in Christ.
Yes. My testimony is just amazing to see that it is a free gift and that I don't have to work from it and for it. And then it is something that Jesus did for me. And that was just so wild and so simple, but that's exactly what, and the Lord had always called me like my whole life and that this would be such a big part of it. So yeah, that's awesome.
That's awesome. I want to definitely get into what Mormonism is and get into the theology behind it. I think that's why a lot of people would tune into this show specifically, but before we do, I kind of want to kind of find out who you are, how this came to be. Like, were you born into being a Mormon or is it something that came later in your life? So I was the youngest of five and I was born. My parents were active Mormon.
They are converts, so they're not generational. So that's when the missionaries showed up and taught them the gospel and they got baptized and did all their checkmark things. So I was born into an active Mormon family and just, it was interesting to really just unveil who Jesus was. I was taught about him. He was so intriguing because I'm like, he died for my sins, but like they keep telling me I'm good because I'm also the youngest of five. So like, here I am, like this spoiled child. And I was like, okay, so what is this?
But I'm a good kid. So it just was all piecing together. Okay.
Okay. How did you come to, like, what was it like growing up in a Mormon home? So growing up, my parents were converts, so I feel like they were naturally, they had lived the life, like the wild lifestyle. And so then they come to what we would just, you know, the workspace, but they would, they had changed, but yet they were merciful to others. So they were like a light in the church because they had the pieces of Jesus as being kind and understanding from what sinful life is to what an active life is. And so I think that they were a lot more gracious than some, but yet I feel like they also struggled too because they couldn't earn their salvation.
And so they were set up for that too. But they gave mercy more than any of my other friends' parents did that were generations deep. And so there was aspects of it that I looked back and I was like, oh my goodness. And there was anger right after I was saved.
There was a lot of anger for, you know, why did this happen? And also I see how much my parents were more like Jesus that they, that they tried to be and that why they didn't fit in with the rest of the congregation. And so there was also so much positive and just healing and just understanding that, you know, and forgiveness too. There's a lot of forgiveness. My family is, I'm the youngest of five and I think that the one thing my parents have always taught me is to forgive.
I would not have my relationship, we would not have Christmases, we would not have anything if we didn't continue to forgive all of our family members and just continue to, you know. You know what Tori was just saying about being in Mormonism, but not really generational. I thought about Paul. Paul was Jewish, as Jewish as it gets, but he was sort of a diasporic Jewish person that he did not grow up in Jerusalem. He wasn't born and raised in the land of Israel.
He was, he was in what we know today as modern day Turkey, Asia Minor. Sometimes, you know, you wonder why God allowed that. He allowed that because he was already calling you. He was already working. And by being second generation or converts, already the seed was there in a sense. The door was open, I should say, for the gospel to come when it came.
Yes. A lot of people that have, they still have a lot of anger, which I think that's just Satan's stronghold. Like if you have anger and unforgiveness, he's going to just weasel in and that's going to prevent you from so many things. You're talking about people in Mormonism? In Mormonism or say that their parents are still, maybe they're not even active, but they're still in it. Like you just forgive them over and over and just realize that it takes time. Like it took time for my parents to be converts. It takes time for them to come out and it takes time to realize that Jesus loves you as you are.
He wants you now. And so I think that when you continue to tell them that over and over, it just starts changing and it doesn't matter about age or generation. And I'm so thankful.
Like if I was born in a different family, it would be different. And my testimony is so strong and the Lord's work and my life is so strong because of the way that I was raised, because of my parents' voices. And I'm so thankful for it. And there are no regrets. And I can boast. I can boast when I'm shaking your hand. I'm like, I got the testimony. That's awesome. I mean, just people to frame it in that way.
You know, a lot of people can't do that. Looking back and saying, you know, even the moments that were not good, even the moments that, you know, I wish were different, they led me to where I am. And they were a chapter in my story. What was it like when you began to question, like when things started to kind of unravel for you as far as Mormonism goes? When did you feel that initial like pull away from Mormonism? So my parents were super active until I was 12 years old. And 12 is when you start going to the temple to do baptisms for the dead. But I had older siblings that had crumbled under this just false, you know, gospel of works. And my my siblings were just struggling with just normal teenage stuff that a lot of teenagers just struggle with, but on top of not having that firm foundation in Christ.
And so they struggled and my parents knew, well, we have a Father in Heaven that loves us. And all of the church is saying abandon them and leave them and, you know, don't go with them. But something about just abandoning my child doesn't sit well with me. It doesn't sit well with my parents. And so they stopped going. So they, is that common to say that if your child is going off the deep end or whatever that It depends.
It depends how rooted you are. I think I'm so I didn't know that. Yeah, I think that when your child does not go on a mission at a certain age, like you're kind of like, well, what did they do wrong? They must have done something terrible. So now The child or the parent? The parent. I mean, because you raised these kids. So why aren't they worthy enough to go serve a mission for two years? And so you feel that you already have, I mean, we all as parents already have that guilt, you know, just of whatever the enemy is telling us. And then on top of that, you have a whole congregation that's like, oh, well, your kid's not serving. Why is that?
You know, what do they do wrong? And then their kids might be doing the same thing. And it's just comparison and just, you know, the unraveling. It really was the unraveling and praise the Lord for the unraveling. So the unraveling, if I'm understanding right, the unraveling started in your parents first? Yeah.
Okay. We stopped going. So we were consistently going every Sunday and we stopped going because my siblings, they weren't seen as worthy. So It sort of reminds me of your story, like with your dad, like seeing Islam played out in front of him and actually benefiting from it in many ways, but then starting to unravel because the truths are not really true and you have to eventually confront them.
That's right. It began to happen in his cousin's life who converted to Christianity. And my dad was rooming with him in college and he would see that and he would purposely try to harass him.
My dad would try to harass his cousin about his Christianity and Christian faith and how the Bible is not the word of God and all that stuff and how he was created by the Western church to control the masses, all kinds of things. So already it was beginning to unravel somewhere else before it began to sow the seeds of doubt in my dad's heart. Yeah.
So it was already happening. And then you start to fast forward through the years and now there's this amazing church that's here, this amazing radio show, all these things that we get to do because of the faith of one person. And I think about even your parents, like what is still to come in the future?
What good is God working through? So much. And thank goodness for the unraveling.
Thank goodness. So personally, it wasn't my own doubts. It was my parents. And there was a part of me that was like, I've learned this since I was a baby. Like I grew up in this.
So why are my parents stopping? Like, you know, I was told that, you know, if we watch radar movies, if, if we did all these things, we were going to be burnt in the rapture. And just like, wow. So I was panicking because I was told my family won't be together forever. So I think that that wasn't really a doubt thing. It was a, it was just despair and scare.
It was scary because, oh no, my parents were, you know, they were all of this and, and now we're not going to be together if we don't go to. Wow. Yeah. Did your parents, did you guys feel that that was an intentional thing that, that Mormonism kind of used or is it just, that's just a by-product of how it is? Oh, 100%. I mean, they definitely, they, I'm unraveling my anger from it is, is what really just my, my, my, if my children were held captive in their salvation and us being together forever, like if that was held on by man, you bet I would stay in a church like that. Like, you know, you bet.
So there's so many generations, especially if your generation's deep that, that think that their family will not be together forever. And it's wild. It's wild now knowing who Jesus is. It is our choice. He has chosen us, but ultimately it's up to us.
It's nothing, no ritual that we can do besides loving them and showing them the gospel in their home. Sunday I was preaching and I mentioned something about grace and I said, you know, if you go to a church that doesn't offer grace and, and of all the people that were sitting in the congregation, I could see one head was just, I was like, the head was victorious. I try to be very dramatic with it because I'm just like, oh my goodness, this is so true.
I was like, yes. When I said that, I did not know this side of the story about, yeah. We made the joke where grace is a middle name for somebody, but it's actually the grace that God gives us. And it is, um, what a relief. What a relief.
Oh my goodness. It's wow. There's not, there's not, as I understand it, there's not a culture of grace. I never grew up knowing what grace was. I've never was taught that. I was taught what I did mattered and that if I messed up, I needed to repent immediately.
And I, which I was a child, so I'm wild. Um, but just, yeah, grace was not, I didn't understand it. And now I'm just like, oh, this is such a big piece. Do you think the typical Mormon understands grace or is it something that's not taught in the church? So they actually, there is a shift in Mormonism.
They are trying to hold on to the last bit of it. And I think that they are trying to change the actual gospel of what the false gospel they had to look more like the real gospel. And so, um, just actively seeing how they're changing. They have, um, Bible study at home, but now they're, they're, they're starting to agree on like the Trinity that he, that, that Jesus is the God of the old Bible. Cause you know where he says, I am, I am, you know, and I think they're just trying to shift it. So now grace is more of a thing. It's being taught now because they've realized there's so many people that have just turned away from God completely and just turn or come to know who Jesus Christ really was.
This is why we, this show exists. You know, we talk about doctrine a lot on this show and a lot, I think a lot of people like I used to do this, we take the importance of doctrine for granted. It's like, well look, if you're a Christian, you know, you believe the right stuff, the rest falls in line. But it's very easy and you can see this is very easy for something like Mormonism to spring up because we don't take our doctrines seriously and we don't hold on to the truth of the Bible. Then of course these things are going to spring up and it may take hundreds of years, but they are going to come. Things like Mormonism, Islam, they came to fill a vacuum. Okay.
The enemy used that to fill a vacuum. So in there, we'll go ahead. Mine's more of a theological question, which we can get to tomorrow. I'm going to write it down. I was just going to say like from, from Mormonism, your parents have had this unraveling and they're walking away because they don't want to abandon their kids.
Obviously, as we as parents agree, they don't have that foundation. They're like, what have I done? I've done all these good things. What was the next step for you?
Was it Mormonism to Christianity or was there a period in between? Just atheism. I think that I wanted to hold on to that because I was like, I want to have a family too. They really sow that and you have a family and you're generational and then they will be together forever. So I held on that for years, but yet I was just not rooted in anything. I had no foundation and so I was a typical rebellious teenager with no foundation at all, nothing to come back to. But I still thought in my head like, it's fine. When I grow up, I'm going to find somebody and then we'll come. Then I'll convert him because it was something I knew.
And then when I was younger, I actually was a teen mom. I got married and he was atheist. And so he, I didn't have that foundation.
And so he would go and quote like the stonings and things like that that are, you know, the hard, hard things. He goes, so if there was a God, then what, what was that? And so I was like, oh, then there is none.
And that was easy. But after having a child, I realized what a gift that was and something so sacred. And so I'm like, but how? There's this life here.
There's this young life. And that just continued to spiral. And I think that not having that foundation and then not believing anything was just the easiest thing to do. And that's so many typical Mormons that they trying to unravel what they've learned their whole life. And I think that that's... How long would you say you spent in unbelief? Like from, okay, I'm declaring that I'm an atheist to when you got saved.
For three years. So what a spiraling teenager, teenage mom does is jumps right into another terrible relationship. And what happened, I was like, well, he's better, so we'll just go back to Mormonism. And I was like, okay, so now we have this family. My child has a father and all these things. And I was like, okay, well, we'll just, we'll go back.
And he actually got baptized in the Mormon church. Cause I thought, well, I have these children. I want to have them forever. Right?
Cause I was taught that as a child. And so I was like, well, I guess there is a God because look, all these things are happening. Still no foundation, no foundation. This was me, my works, what I've done. I went from a bad situation to a worse one, but I was so young, so young. And then I just jumped into that and I was like, oh my goodness.
And that was even worse. And I know it's by God's hand that I'm here today. It's by God's hand. And I am so grateful for that because he definitely saved my life and I'm here.
I'm glad you said that. I want to, I want to dive into the, into your conversion into Christianity and your coming to Cleveland on tomorrow's episode. But before we go, Dr. Shah, Victoria, do you have any words of encouragement for people out there who are still in that life, who are still believing in Mormonism or people who are listening, who are like, you know, I think I know people who are in that life, but I want a word of hope and encouragement to them. Just tell them the truth of the gospel and just be loving and kind to them because they need to see Jesus and, and they had their blinders on, but be patient and pray.
I know that I know my neighbor, her, her parents on both sides, her husband, they were praying for us and there is such power in that. Yeah. I couldn't agree more.
I mean, she said it exactly. Love them. Pray for them. I would just add, learn theology. I know you were talking about that. Learn doctrine. Know why we are different and why there is one gospel that Paul talks about and hang in there. It gets better.
Yeah. I want to talk about that some more tomorrow. Thank you so much, Victoria. Excited to dive into tomorrow's episode. Hopefully today was helpful for you. Write in and let us know what you got from today's episode, two five two five eight two five zero two eight, or you can visit us online at cleerviewtodayshow.com. Don't forget you can partner with us financially on that same website. Scroll to the bottom, click that donate button and let us know what's coming from our Clear View Today Show family. Love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear View Today.
