This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Passion for Christ, a ministry of Utah Partnerships for Christ. In Acts 26, 18, Jesus said, Paul's purpose was to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light. and from the power of Satan unto God. That they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
We hope you'll join us for today's testimony of lives changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now let's begin today's episode. Welcome to Passion for Christ. This is Russ East, your host. And again, I want to thank Kevin McGahey for his instrumentals, the music you hear in the beginning of each program and at the end and in the middle. That's all from my friend Kevin McGahey.
So just want to say thank you to Kevin. And now, as we continue part two of the testimony from Josh Hatch. let's listen to this gentleman who was saved out of the Mormon church to Christ. In Montana and Wyoming, the Freemasons are still a very active group. They're a huge organization out there still, and every single little tiny town has those different lodges.
Well, my mission companion and I went to one of those lodges and we took a tour of it. And I look up on the wall and there on the wall is all of our sacred symbols, all of our sacred like clothing wear and all of our like pictures of guys in aprons that look very similar, bakers' hats that look very similar. And that just stopped me in my tracks and I I thought, How can this be? How can, like, I, who have gone through and done everything I was supposed to do, and said everything I was supposed to say, and experienced all that I was supposed to experience, who went like I'm I am a worthy Mormon person. I hold the Melchizedek priesthood and Aaronic priesthood and Anyway, I saw those and I thought, oh my gosh, what are they doing here?
Why are they there? And so I started talking to one of the Freemasons and He kind of said, well, we don't really talk about these either because these are our things. And Joseph Smith was a Freemason. and some of your other church leaders were Freemasons. What do you mean they were some of those other things?
He goes, Oh, yeah, no, this was. He's like, It's not as big of a deal now to share these as it was back then. But some of the punishments were tarring and feathering, some of the punishments were. Um Like the, yeah, like the blood atonement and a lot of the other, like, like those punishments. that they would do for revealing those signs and tokens were almost the exact same.
as what I had agreed upon in the temple. I didn't know what the Blood Atonement was at that time when I went through the Temple. But I found out that later my parents would have known what those were, and that those were changed pretty drastically. And that was actually back in the time too, just kind of digressing. Little bit where the word Mormonism was actually a really cool theme.
Like that was we're Mormons. Like we're not LDS, we're not Christian, we are Mormons. And they made the movies about it, they made the whole thing like meet the Mormons. And Anyway, so that's that's interesting that it's changed that drastically. Even just in the ten years since I went on my mission to the time of being here now.
But going back to the Freemason Lodge, they let me take all the pamphlets with me. And so I took all the pamphlets and I went up to my mission president, and I said, What is this? Why do they have these? And he couldn't really explain that to me either. He just kinda like, Well, they Yeah, the Free Joseph Smith was a Freemason and all this stuff.
And I thought, okay, great, that makes me sick. And so I just went on the rest of my mission. And because of my experience in other churches playing the organ, I got very comfortable just going up to different churches and asking them if I could play their organ in Montana, because I didn't get very many opportunities. I mean, I did in our church services, I could play the organ. I did a lot of that, but I thought of it more as like, Bridging the gap and bringing unity between Mormonism and Christianity by my organ playing and just trying to be friends and talk to these people.
And I met lots of really cool pastors. Pastor Bob, who was in Holy Trinity Lutheran in Billings. And they got to know me really well. I'd come on my Mondays, on P-Days, and I'd drag my companion behind me because he did not want to go to another church. But we'd go down to Holy Trinity, and I'd go play the organ sometimes.
And it got to the point that the office staff was like, Hey, Elder Hatch, good to see you. We're glad that you're here. They had one of the largest organs in all of Montana, a big, huge pipe organ, and it was so much fun. I had a really good time. But I would start sending these pictures with me next to like this huge cross in the background and beautiful stained glass windows to all like to my family at home, and they're like.
What are you doing? And anyway, so I kind of tested the boundaries a little bit with that because my mission president let me. Let me go to Midnight Mass. I really wanted to go to Midnight Mass for Christmas. And I can't remember if I did for Easter, I don't think we did.
But I really wanted to go because of the music. In the LDS culture and worship style, You're literally not allowed to do anything that's fanciful or anything that is. Um Like different than how the music is written. And they have a whole handbook on what you can and cannot do, what instruments are allowed, and what instruments are not allowed. And that was another kind of irk to me as I was playing the organ for the Catholic Church.
I could do improvisations on the hymns, and they loved it. But if I tried to do that at the LDS church, I would get ridiculed over the pulpit, which happened more than once. Because I would push the buttons and no one listens to the preludes anyway, so I would throw in some Disney songs and maybe some of this stuff and they they'd be sitting there listening to all creatures of our God and King and then somewhere uh uh or uh somewhere o or what's that thing?
Somewhere over the rainbow, that's what it was.
Somewhere over the rainbow would come into that note. Wow, but then people would listen to my preludes after that. They would actually be quiet and listen.
So I don't know, it kind of worked. Um. But anyway, so I had a lot of different health challenges on my mission. I'm just very, very asthmatic. And in Montana, it's almost like the golden rule is to have six cats, ten dogs, and be a chain smoker.
And so every house I was going in was very hard. I'd be walking out with my inhaler and my nebulizers, and I was in the hospital several times. And anyway, after being in the hospital for like the fourth or fifth time, my mission president kind of approached me and said, I think you should probably just go home. Like you're not doing very well. It was also during the wildfire season.
I'd been out for 18 months and Montana was like burning down to the ground and then Wyoming was burning down to the ground and it was just smoke all the time. I couldn't breathe. Um And I remember the moment when I kinda just said Okay, I guess that's I guess that's what we're gonna have to do. And I called my dad. He asked me to call my dad and just talk it through with him.
And so I called my dad, and we're both kind of on the phone, and like. Like, what do we do? I don't know what to do. Should I go home? Should I stick it out another six months?
I mean, it's only six more months. Um They couldn't send you somewhere else. And no, because my mission covered from the border of Canada, so all the way up to the top of Montana, all the way down to. uh the middle of Wyoming. And almost, there were like three or four forest fires that season.
And there was so much smoke, and Canada was on fire too. It was like everything was burning down. And it felt like I was burning down. It literally felt like my whole life was kind of crashing down because I thought my mission is coming to an end and I haven't had any of my questions answered. I don't have any anything answered.
Like I What am I going to do? I thought this was supposed to fix it, and I kind of fell in this really deep depression. When I got home, because then I kind of felt like I was going to be looked on. Pretty poorly for returning home early as a missionary. I knew and I'd heard other.
Conversations by other people in our ward or in our congregation. We'll be right back for the rest of today's testimony. Please know we at Utah Partnerships for Christ have been planting seeds of the gospel in Utah for over 24 years. We welcome any questions you may have and invite you to visit our website to obtain a list of words and definitions that would help you understand how Mormons think and how to be able to better witness to your friends who belong to the Mormon Church. That website is www.upfc.org.
That's upfc.org. We'll be right back. Welcome to Passion for Christ, a ministry of Utah Partnerships for Christ. In Acts 26, 18, Jesus said Paul's purpose was to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light. and from the power of Satan unto God.
That they may receive forgiveness of sins and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. We hope you'll join us for today's testimony of lives changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now let's begin today's episode. I remember the moment when I kinda just said Okay, I guess that's I guess that's what we're gonna have to do. And I called my dad. He asked me to call my dad and just talk it through with him. And so I called my dad, and we're both kind of on the phone, and like.
Like, what do we do? I don't know what to do. Should I go home? Should I stick it out another six months? Only six more months.
Um They could send you somewhere else. And no, 'cause my mission covered from The border of Canada, so all the way up to the top of Montana, all the way down to. uh the middle of Wyoming. And almost, there were like three or four forest fires that season. And there was so much smoke, and Canada was on fire too.
It was like everything was burning down. And it felt like I was burning down. It literally felt like my whole life was kind of crashing down because I thought my mission is coming to an end and I haven't had any of my questions answered. I haven't had any anything answered. Like I What am I going to do?
I thought this was supposed to fix it, and I kind of fell in this really deep depression. When I got home, because then I kind of felt like I was going to be looked on. pretty poorly for returning home early. as a missionary. I knew and I'd heard other um Conversations by other people in our ward or in our congregation.
And I knew what the rumor mill sounded like before that. And I was very nervous about that, though I didn't really want to tell that to anyone. I didn't really want them to know I was thinking about it.
So I get back home from my mission. I'm concerned what they're what everyone in the congregation is going to say. My parents are very loving, very supportive of everything, and um I like I said, I just kind of fell into this depression where I didn't really know what to do. Suddenly I'm I'm going from a situation where I'm stuck with someone, literally 24-7 every moment of the day, can't even hardly go to the bathroom without someone being out the door. To then I'm by myself.
I get back home, and my parents are at work, my siblings are at school. And I'm literally just sitting there in the house by myself with nothing to do. And that was really awful because I just sat there with my thoughts, and I just kept thinking. What have I done? Why did I even do any of that?
If I don't even know where I'm at. with my own faith, with my own thing and and Over the next few months, my parents started to see a pretty significant change. Where once I had been very zealous in my testimony of the Mormon doctrine and in how Joseph Smith was a modern-day prophet, and I had once been. very adamant that the Book of Mormon was Um The word of God, and that everyone needed to know about it, or at least I had been saying that to keep face value. to where now I don't really want to go to church.
I don't really want to be around people anymore or have to deal with All of the consequences of my actions, really, for the last eighteen months of. going out there and telling everyone what I had thought I had believed or what I had been talking myself into believing. One of the corporate of the 12, actually now he's done the first presidency. of the church. Henry B.
Eyring gave a talk on acting as if until you have faith. Like that was basically the gist of his talk. If you act enough, Like you believe. then you will believe. Fake it.
And you just fake it till you make it. It's the it's I mean, it's a scam, really. And I remember having this conversation with my mom. Where she's like, I'm really concerned for you. You just literally got home from your mission.
And you are not doing what you're supposed to do, like you're not really going to church like you should be. They would cry they'd try to they'd call me and ask me to come talk at these various wards, and I'm like, That's the last thing that I want to do is to go stand up in front of everybody and be like, Yeah. I just got home from a mission. And let me tell you about it, and all this stuff. Like, I didn't feel good about that, and I didn't want to do it.
Um So I kinda started bouncing forwards. I would be like, Actually, I'm going to the singles board until they tried to give me a calling and a little job in the church. I'm going back to my parents' church, actually. And then they tried to give me a calling there, another job. And so then I bounced back and forth.
And eventually, they kind of just nailed me down in my parents' church and said, hey, we want you to be the temple prep instructor. and to teach a class during Sunday school. And I thought. What are you? How are we going to go over that information?
I mean, what am I supposed to be able to say to them to prepare them for the temple? Like, take a Xanax before you go? Like, I mean, maybe a shot or something? Because, like, this is not going to go over well for you. It didn't go well for me.
And I don't know how to, like. Prepare you for that. Again, I'm not intentionally trying to be disrespectful. This is just my own opinion and my own experience. But that was very difficult for me and.
Anyway, I said, okay, yeah, sounds good, we'll try it. And they gave me a pamphlet of what I'm supposed to go through. And so I would go through this with them, and I had someone else who would kind of help co-teach with me. I'm like, how do I tell you? You're going to be going room to room watching a video about Adam and Eve and this new creation story that's kind of like sci-fi-y, but there's like a little twist at the end, and you're going to be changing your clothes three or four times, so don't get all tangled up.
Make sure you put your shoes on the right feet when you are done. That happened to me one time where I was walking around with my right shoe on my left foot and left shoe on my right foot and just a job-related mess. And my grandpa had to come over and he goes, Boy, you gotta go a lot more than this, because we need to teach you how to put this stuff on. I'm listening to the speaker, but I'm not getting much. Anyway, and so I kind of just on my own came to the conclusion that there is no God.
I very sadly just said I've done everything I possibly can to figure out this stuff. I've been looking at different things, I've been listening to various podcasts, but it honestly. It was just easier to say that there is no God, that there's nothing, that there's whatever. And I wouldn't ever be vocal with that. I didn't have any animosity towards the LDS Church or its people.
As I said in the very beginning, they're my people, they're my friends and my family, and I love them very dearly. But I didn't want to do it anymore. And so. I didn't. I um I kinda just I I would still say I'm LDS.
I kinda turned into the term the Jack Mormon where you aren't really LDS but you are like, oh yes, I am fulfilling my calling and priesthood responsibilities when friends and family would ask like what you're doing. But again, this is a very short period of time. I got home early from my mission, I think, in. May of twenty seventeen And by the end of twenty eighteen. I had left the church.
I'd requested my records to be removed from the church, which that was a chaotic experience. I'll get to that in just a second. And I'd moved in with my then girlfriend. Mostly to try to escape my parents because our relationship between this point had deteriorated drastically. They didn't know what to do with me and I didn't know what to do with me.
And our arguments and our frustrations and the experiences that we were sharing under the same roof was just not a good situation. And so I was looking for any way out that I possibly could go. And So anyway, I ended up moving in with my girlfriend and um Actually, I'm getting ahead of the story again because one of the most important parts of the story. is that I actually tried to run away, kind of. I so by June or July, my aunt and uncle had who live in Oregon, just outside of Portland, They have right after you got back.
Right after I got back.
So I got back in May, and then it was June or July, the beginning of summer, when I decided I was going to move out to Oregon.
So I bought a car. And I moved out to Oregon. And I just kinda I sort of went to the young adults ward out there just to kind of appease my aunt and uncle because they were very kind to me and I loved living with them. But he's now a BYU professor. Um and they were they were very LDS too.
But I would, anyway, I would go out there, and my brother was getting ready to serve his mission. And so he had graduated high school and had received his mission call. And on the day when he was going to get set apart, I decided for some crazy reason that I was going to get done with work on Saturday. I was going to drive through the night to get to his setting apart ceremony. Uh and then I was going to turn around and go back.
And so from Portland to Salt Lake is about 12 hours. Like it's a long drive. And I just finished my shift, I think, at 8 o'clock that night, and he was getting set apart at 8:30 in the morning on Sunday. And so I just floated all the way down there. And uh set apart.
So to the the term set apart is When um Let's see, how can I describe it? It's when. Men who have the priesthood authority over you. give you a special blessing from God. To basically declare that you are going to fulfill this calling or responsibility that God has given you.
Um I mean, it's a very serious thing while also being. just a cultural norm. Like you could end up being the janitor of the church and they would still set you apart to be the janitor of the church. The same thing for like the organists and the music stuff. A commissioning ceremony.
Yeah, it's a commissioning ceremony. Um and then that was gonna be the last time I was gonna see him for two years. And so that's why I decided, well, I'm just gonna do it.
Well, we will continue from where we just left off here next time when we get together on Passion for Christ. I want to thank you for joining us to hear this testimony from a website called MeetTheXMormons.org. A friend of mine, Rob Savolka, has this website, meetthexmormons.org. And you can hear the rest of it on your own. But if you don't have a chance, just come on back to Passion for Christ.
and listen to it there. We'll see you again next time here on Passion for Christ. Before we sign off for today, please know that all of us here at Utah Partnerships for Christ appreciate your prayers and support. We are also available to do Zoom call workshops or personal coaching on reaching Mormons for Christ. Contact us today at upfc.org.
That's upfc.org. Thanks so much for joining us on another edition of Passion for Christ.
