This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Passion for Christ, a ministry of Utah Partnerships for Christ. In Acts 26, 18, Jesus said, Paul's purpose was to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light. and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. We hope you'll join us for today's testimony of lives changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now let's begin today's episode. Welcome to Passion for Christ. This is Russ, your host. And today I have my friend Michael Florinoy. With us, he's going to be sharing a little bit about how the Lord saved him out of the Mormon church into Christ.
And so Michael, thank you for being on Passion for Christ again. Hey, would you mind me? Absolutely. You know, we want to just give God the glory for saving both of us, you know, out of the Mormon church. Would you want to share with our listeners a little bit as to Was was your home growing up, was it out of a like a home converted to the Mormon church more recently in the last generation?
Or does it go back to the pioneer days, as we would say, you know, or somewhere in the middle? What was it like growing up in a Mormon home for you? Yeah, it's actually right down the middle, depending on which side of the family you're talking about.
So, my dad was a convert.
So in that sense, I was, you know, like a second generation. Latter-day Saint. And when I went on my mission, I was the first one in my family.
So it's like, hey, I'm the first elder Floroi ever, you know, to go serve a mission.
So that was really exciting on that side of things. He converted from Catholicism. The missionaries had just come to his house one day. He read the Book of Mormon in one day, which just like, I don't know how you do that. But he, a couple of months later, he converted.
On my mom's side of the family, we've got history where they were pioneers. I've got ancestors who knew Joseph Smith personally and sat in his house.
Okay. Wow. When you're on your mission, would you say that you had Christians along the path there of your daily knocking on doors and they were all just very kind and loving and shared the gospel with you and wanted to invite you to their church and just see how they could kind of serve you and stuff? Or was it a different story? I have no idea.
Yeah, okay. Yeah, so I went to Orange County. California, and I did run into a lot of Christians. God put a lot of Christians in my path. But initially, my My perception of them wasn't very good.
It was really negative. Like, we would just have a lot of judgmental stares from people's doorsteps while we were walking through the neighborhood, or just people telling us, hey, you're in a cult. you know and of course what's funny is i look at it now and i'm like okay were they actually being that harsh or was i just really uh you know vulnerable to that at the time And so it's hard to say now, but we did a couple of dialogues out there. We did some meetings between Mormons and Christians and had some discussions. And once we started doing that, I started having some actual conversations with them.
And it was really positive.
So it went from just, hey, we're going to take out our Bibles and we're going to bash and we're going to stack verses against each other. And see who wins. And I think the thing that just shocked me the most was one day I see these two Christians, you know, we tried to talk to them and convert them. And what they told us was that they pray for us at church every Sunday. And I had had this thought that, hey, they hate us.
You know, that was my absolute belief. I'm like, Christians hate us. And also, I was upset that they couldn't tell that we were Christian. I'm like, come on, it's so obvious. But then, when they said that they pray for us every week, I was like, okay, well.
It doesn't seem like you would pray for somebody that you hate. Right, right. That spoke to you, didn't it? It definitely put a lot of cognitive dissonance in my shelf. Right.
Right. Okay. The did you say the the word shelf like a Yeah, that's a common word that Mormons use, and our listeners should be aware of that. It's kind of like the Mormon shelf. It's where you put things on the shelf, you close the door, and you don't think about it for as long as you need to not think about it, I guess, huh?
Yeah, because things that seem like they contradict your faith, it's painful because your faith is your entire identity when you're a Mormon. You know, we often say, as Christians, when we're talking to Mormons, like, hey, I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking your church. And a Mormon has a hard time differentiating between those two things. You know, it's almost like, hey, I'm not attacking you, I'm just saying bad things about your mother or something. It's like, okay, well, you are attacking me.
So, right.
So, since it's painful, these truths, you put them on the metaphorical shelf.
So that you don't have to think about it anymore. It's like, okay, I'll get to this later. It's sort of a postponing of those things. But then eventually that shelf gets too heavy and it breaks and everything comes tumbling down all at once. And then you wake up to the fact that the LDS church is false.
And And for you. Did the gospel message Make sense, or did you know the miraculous moment when you became born again? Did that happen soon after you kind of cut ties with the Mormon church? Or. Or did it happen almost instantaneously?
Right, so I've been speaking to Christians for a long time on my mission. And just to give a little bit of background, I came home and decided I'm going to defend the church from these Christians. And so I wrote a book called A Biblical Defense of Mormonism. And I was on the debate forums all the time debating Christians. I did a couple of live debates.
And so I was convinced that the gospel was just a gospel of laziness. You know, it's like, oh, these guys are antinomians. They believe that they can sin all they want. And so I was fighting against it. And then I just had the bright idea that I'm going to study grace really in depth.
I gave myself one year to do it because I thought it was that complicated of a doctrine.
So I'm like, I'm going to study this for a year. At the end of it, I will be able to destroy these Christians on this topic. And then they will have to confess that they are wrong and I'm right. And really, by the end of this study, my eyes were opened, and I realized that I was wrong.
So I actually accepted the gospel while I was still in the Mormon church.
Okay, okay. And then, did you share this with family? And if so, was it received well, or was it. like many people, there is a lot of Disdain and a lot of tension and so forth that took place when you shared this with your family. Yeah, so I initially kept it a secret from everybody in my family, including my wife, because I'd seen so many stories where families had been broken apart by somebody accepting the gospel.
And so I kept trying to wait until I was ready. And then I'd have Christians, you know, well-meaning Christians being like, hey, have you told your wife and your family yet? And I'd just be like, no, why are you in such a rush for me to ruin my life? You know? But then eventually, I wish I had just told everybody because what ended up happening is every single person in my family ended up finding out in some way without me telling them.
And that was much more awkward than if I had just gone through it and told them. And, you know, some relationships were destroyed. My wife ended up leaving me.
So she divorced me due to this. Uh I actually spent the first Probably a year of being a Christian in a depression, you know, and just thinking that I was never gonna recover. And then there's just one day where I woke up and I felt healed and loved by God. And it's like, okay, I don't need a family. to be happy.
I really don't need anything. Except Jesus. And it was such a mind change because in Mormonism, there's this quote where it says that, you know, no success can compensate for failure inside the home. And so it's kind of like, hey, if your family broke up, then you are an utter failure. Wow.
And it's, and it's like, well, no. I, you know, all of this loss is actually gain, you know, for Christ.
So it's it's okay. With the rest of my family, we actually have stayed pretty close. Obviously, they don't like that I speak out against the Mormon church sometimes, but aside from that, we still have a pretty good relationship.
Okay, okay. And then when the gospel was presented to you, was it more of a quiet Introspection through you just reading God's word, because I know that's how people are saved. Or was it something through like mass media, or was it a combination of things, or did a Christian couple or something, a family, a friend, a coworker reach out to you? You want to share a little bit about What What took place when you put your faith in Christ alone? We'll be right back for the rest of today's testimony.
Please know we at Utah Partnerships for Christ have been planting seeds of the gospel in Utah for over 24 years. We welcome any questions you may have and invite you to visit our website to obtain a list of words and definitions that would help you understand how Mormons think and how to be able to better witness to your friends who belong to the Mormon Church. That website is www.upfc.org. That's upfc.org. We'll be right back.
Welcome to Passion for Christ, a ministry of Utah Partnerships for Christ. In Acts 26, 18, Jesus said, Paul's purpose was to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light. and from the power of Satan unto God. That they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. We hope you'll join us for today's testimony of lives changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now let's begin today's episode. Eventually, what's I wish I had just told everybody because what ended up happening is every single person in my family ended up finding out in some way without me telling them. And that was much more awkward than if I had just gone through it and told them. And, you know, some relationships were destroyed. My wife ended up leaving me.
So she divorced me due to this. Uh and I actually spent the first Probably a year of being a Christian in a depression, you know, and just thinking that I was never going to. Recover. And then there's just one day where I woke up and I felt healed and loved by God. And it's like, okay, I don't need a family.
to be happy, I really don't need anything. Except Jesus. And that was such a mind change because in Mormonism, there's this quote where it says that, you know, no success can compensate for failure inside the home. And so it's kind of like, hey, if your family broke up, then you are an utter failure. Wow.
And it's like, well, no. I you know, all of this loss is actually gain. You know, for Christ.
So it's okay. With the rest of my family, we actually have stayed. Pretty close. Obviously, they don't like that I speak out against the Mormon Church sometimes, but aside from that, we still have. a pretty good relationship.
Okay, okay. And then when the gospel was presented to you, was it more of a quiet Introspection through you just reading God's word, because I know that's how people are saved. Or was it something through like mass media, or was it a combination of things, or did a Christian couple or something, a family, a friend, a co-worker, Um reach out to you. Do you want to share a little bit about What? What took place when you put your faith in Christ alone?
Yes, there's a couple of combinations.
So I was on these debate forums and I started talking to a couple of ex-Mormons who had become Christian. And one of the things that surprised me was that they weren't hateful, you know, people who, because the narrative is, you know, oh, these are people who just wanted to sin.
So they left the church. And now they're so hateful that they're willing to bring me down, even though they still deep down they know the church is true. And so I started realizing like this isn't the case. Like they all have legitimate reasons for leaving. And some of them were preaching the gospel to me.
I was trying to prove my stance from the Bible. And I was having a very difficult time doing that because the Bible doesn't actually teach Mormon doctrine. And then I decided, you know what? If I can't prove it theologically, then I will prove it with my actions. Because in Mormonism, they say that God doesn't give you a commandment that you can't keep.
You know, we don't believe that God gave the law to condemn. It's there so that we can get closer to Him. And so I start trying to obey God. And the more I try to be perfectly obedient. The more I realize that I'm slipping up.
and there's nothing i can do to stop it and so i was in Total turmoil over this. Until a Christian friend of mine online introduced me to the doctrine of imputed righteousness. Also called reckoned righteousness, the idea that Jesus came and lived a perfect life, and that he counts his righteousness to our ledgers. Through the cross. Right.
Wow. That's amazing. A blessing. Fantastic. Let me ask this question.
If a Mormon were to ask you this question and they say, Well Michael, you had to have faith.
Well, you had to do something. You evangelicals are saying you have to do something, you have to put your faith in Christ alone. What we Mormons teach is that everyone will be saved or resurrected, and then we're just going to be rewarded for our faithfulness. Have you ever heard that kind of line of reasoning? And how would you maybe.
I know that's just a hypothetical situation with no other context or anything. It's just kind of putting you on the spot. Like, what would you say? I appreciate you asking me this because first I'm going to tell you what I would have said as a Mormon. Yeah.
And I even put this in my book, A Biblical Defense of Mormonism. I said that faith and works are just two different elements within faith. They are both parts of it, just like yeast is an ingredient in bread. Right. So the the real problem is that Mormons conflate Faith with faithfulness, and they don't see a difference.
And it's like, no, faith is not about. doing works at all and where I would show them is really Romans 5, 4. which I'm looking up right now.
Sorry, I might mean four or five here. Oh, and that's the verse that Joseph Smith. retranslated it and he said that that uh God um Yeah. He He changed the word. He changed not the.
He did change a word. Yeah, so here's what the verse actually says. And I think this is so useful. And by the way, Mormons do not, they're not using the Joseph Smith translation like they used to. In fact, now I'll have many of them.
And I even said this as an apologist, but I would say that it's just a commentary. It's not a correction. But I think you have problems like here where it completely contradicts. What the text actually says.
So here's Romans 4:5. And what I like about this is it actually breaks faith down to its basic elements. Says unto the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.
So, really, two things for it to be faith: one, he who believes, and two, He who does not work.
So, actually, in absence. Of work. Wow. Yes. It's part of faith.
And it actually makes sense. When you start viewing faith as a trust in Jesus, it makes sense to wait on the Lord and to believe that He is capable of saving rather than I need to do this thing to compensate for. for his lack of power. You know, that is not. Face at all.
What the Joseph Smith translation says, instead of him who justifies the ungodly, it says he who justifies not the ungodly. Yeah, what a tragic. Mistranslation Absolutely. I mean, it changes, it changes everything. It changes the whole definition of grace, which is an unmerited favor.
So then the poor Mormon has to figure out: well, you know, this justification thing sounds pretty cool, but. It's only going to be for the godly, you know? And so, how do I measure up? How do I, like my little box, my CTR box? When I was a kid, you know, in the Mormon church had this little thing that said, How do I measure up?
You know, and I remember that distinctly. It was always about. me trying to Perform, achieve, you know, be worthy, and even as a kid, you know. And so it's drummed into you, isn't it? It definitely is.
I mean, from the moment you get baptized, which... Is a totally different thing than in Christianity, because it's faith that saves you in Christianity. But in Mormonism, baptism is one of the steps that you have to take in order to return to the Father's presence.
So the moment you get baptized at eight years old, they will. uh start telling you like okay you are clean now but You know, you're going to sin and you're going to need to repent, and you're going to, you know, you're going to need to do better. And so that's immediately thrown at you. Yeah. It's like, yeah, you're clean for the moment, but that's not going to last.
Oh, yeah. I remember coming up out of that water. I was baptized three times because my foot was Not fully in the water when my dad baptized me, and then the second time, top of my head. Was not in the water completely. And so the third time, my dad got it right, and I came out of the water just with a sense of that.
Sadly, that false confidence that I was clean and as an eight-year-old little boy, and oh, we could talk so much longer about all this. We're coming to the kind of towards the close, but tell our listeners about the excitement of when the Lord opens the door for you to start a podcast. What's one of the things that you really feel led to? To talk about in your podcast. Just the thing that kind of just is burning on your mind, like, okay, I've got to cover some of this.
Yeah, absolutely.
So we uh I've had a podcast before. And I've taken a A pretty good break from all things Mormonism for a while. And I feel like God just keeps calling me back, you know, like, okay, Michael, I didn't leave you in the Mormon church for 32 years just so that you can go do your own thing. Like, there's a reason for it. I'm actually about to publish a book called The Known God with a co-author who's also ex-Mormon.
Her name's Brandi Bronson. She wrote The Journey to Jesus. And this book is going to be a compare and contrast of the Mormon God to the God of the Bible. And uh And so we're thinking we'll probably start a podcast together as well. And we're going to cover topics that I want to cover a lot of the really heavy topics.
You know, there's a lot we can say, a lot we can criticize about the Mormon Church, but I think the most important thing. Is the gospel and the nature of God. And so we want to really cover those topics as hard as we can. And then, and I'm sure, like, Part of your podcast might involve Just thinking about the way Jesus asked questions. I mean, he was, if I can say respectfully and reverently, like, Um It was genius, or it was beautiful.
It was so humble, so amazing the way that here's God the Son, and He. He poses questions to people when You know, that's not what a king does, you know, so much. You know, a king would only make. like declarative statements. And sometimes it's time it's good to do that.
But Wow. Just the interpersonal side of it all, I think. It's going to be exciting to see what God's going to keep doing in our lives. And so, Michael, I want to thank you for taking time out of your day to do this recording. We could talk so much longer.
And, Lord willing, that podcast will be just. Just an amazing thing. For now, I have to say goodbye because we're just about out of time. Do you have a really quick, like in 10 seconds, a website that people can? go to to find more of of um your ministries.
At the moment, I don't really have a website, but I do want to just shout out a book that I have out. It's called Tearing the Veil. It is a guide to sharing grace with Mormons.
So basically, I go over four steps. I use an acronym called Iris. To just talk about the gospel with Mormons. And I think it's just going to be a really helpful guide to anyone listening who engages with Latter-day Saints. Absolutely.
Let's go through Iris next time on Passion for Christ. And with that, I'll say goodbye. Thank you so much for joining us. And we'll hear from you hopefully by way of an email. Send me an email, kutrstudio at gmail.com.
And with that, we'll see you again next week here on Passion for Christ. Before we sign off for today, please know that all of us here at Utah Partnerships for Christ appreciate your prayers and support. We are also available to do Zoom call workshops or personal coaching on reaching Mormons for Christ. Contact us today at upfc.org. That's upfc.org.
Thanks so much for joining us on another edition of Passion for Christ.
