Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and your list of Matt Slick Live. Today's date is March 23rd, 2026. And we have nobody waiting on the calls right now. If you want to be the first one, you can.

All you've got to do is dial 8772-072276. You can give me a call. And you can also email me at info at carm.org. Info at C-A-R-M.org, put in a subject line, radio comment, radio. Questions.

Okay, we got nobody waiting.

So.

Okay. Last night, now normally on Sundays I don't do any ministry work. But every now and then I will get online I'm driving someplace. I'll listen to a conversation someplace, and that's what happened last night. And I ended up talking for three hours, two or three hours.

with a bunch of Catholics. Easterworth Docks. been a Mormon. And this conversation, oh my goodness. It was deep.

And Uh Yeah, yeah. These guys Behaved like a pack of dogs, and I told them that. Because when I would go to answer, go to respond. uh to uh something three two, three, four, five would jump in all at once. I started calling all guys.

You guys act like a pack of dogs. You can't even do one at a time, Kamaduna. And oh, they didn't like that. We got into all kinds of conversations, and this one Mormon guy. He He comes to the aid.

of the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholics. He likes to defend the doctrine that you have to do good works along with your faith in order to be saved. Of course that's a damnable heresy. And I showed him scripture. And what was interesting is.

that I would show them scripture. And instead of examining the scripture, what they would do is contradict it with another scripture. They typically go to James and things like that. And I would try and get the word in edge-wise and say, you guys can't set Scripture against Scripture. And they would just interrupt, you know, constantly.

And I kept calling him a pack of dogs. You're behaving like a pack of dogs. Come on. and uh called in vaporinians. Yeah.

And sometimes I was chuckling. Because the ridiculousness of their position, their behavior was pretty bad, and I started chuckling because I just couldn't believe it, you know. And uh some of the guys started saying, Matt's demons are manifesting. Then some of them started to say with even possessed, and that I was speaking uh the words of the devil. And the Mormon in particular said that.

So I'm going to write an article on this, but I've known this for a while, just haven't gotten the formal text down.

So, in the middle of all this brouhaha that was going on, man, I'm telling you, a bunch of wild dogs all just going after one person. And, um, Man, they do not like me. Man, they do not like me. Called me demonically possessed. I was of the devil because I believed and I taught that if you trust in Christ by faith, the faith that God grants that's in Jesus, that that faith alone is what makes you right with God, and then you go out and you live for Jesus.

They called that demonic. Seriously.

So I made a challenge when the Mormon guy was going at it, and he's always trying to tackle me. To save face, in my opinion. Yeah. And uh I then said in the room, I said, You guys are having a Mormon. Help you.

A Mormon who teaches that, you know, Mormonism teaches God king on our planet. A goddess wife has relations with his goddess wife. And uh And you know, see, this is it. You guys are teaching the same thing. And uh I said, you need to go to, I challenge you, because I'm saying my doctrine was demonic.

And the Mormon guy said that what I was teaching was from Satan.

So I said, Everybody, go to the web and look up the transcript of the Mormon Temple Ceremony and see who does most of the teaching on salvation. You'll see it's the devil. And There are transcripts. And I said, find out what happens. When the devil is the one who's asked about the gospel, all this stuff goes on.

with the uh the fig leaf apron i talked about i said He sa states that uh with the Christian preacher. That if you will teach that God is without body, parts, and passions, and that you're saved without doing any works. He says you'll pay him well.

So Satan is calling The doctrine That I teach in Mormonism, he's calling it Uh evil. It's it's from him. to teach that Um that if you're saved by grace through faith, alone in Christ alone, what Christ's work is alone sufficient for us.

So he says, Mormon Temple ceremony says, well, that's from the devil.

So what is the devil's position, then? If he's going to say that salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, is false, that he wants the preacher to preach it because it's false, and he'll pay the preacher to preach this false doctrine, then what's the true doctrine? that you have to earn your salvation. that you with by your faith and your works. That would be what Satan was affirming.

Yeah. What's really interesting is that I brought this up in the room. And I said, I challenge any one of you to go look at the temple ceremony. And what's really interesting is They wouldn't do it. Nobody would.

I'm going to write an article and put it out and do the homework for them. Like always, I do the homework for them. And I find it was fascinating that. that they they hate me so much that they call me of the devil, They say I'm satanic. To say that you trust in Christ and that He alone and His shed blood alone is enough to save us.

That faith in Christ that comes from God, John 6:29. That's granted to us by God, Philippians 1.29. that that alone is enough to make us right with him. They call that from Satan. They say it's demonic.

And they say by me teaching that. that I'm d demon possessed. And yet Their position, in Mormonism at least, The Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, is the same thing that Satan teaches. And they have a Mormon helping them out. Who's trying to help them defeat me?

And I would take them To various verses. And it was very difficult to get them to look actually at what the Word of God would say. It was very difficult because, like I said, they would contradict. God's word by citing another verse. And I'd said, That means you understood what the first verse said.

And then you want to contradict it. You can't set scripture against scripture. And I said, why don't you look at the actual verse, what we're talking about? And they wouldn't do it.

Well, one guy did it. Just remember correctly. One guy did for a little bit. and we're able to have a little bit of a dialogue. And They would bring up a verse and I would answer it.

I would look at it, go to the context, look at it. And then I'd answer it, let's go back to the verb and they wouldn't do it. Their hypocrisy was immense. their behavior like a pack of dogs. was very evident.

And this is what I did for about two hours last night. Just jumped right in the middle of these guys. And And I actually said at one point, because one of the Catholic guys said that everything I believe. is invented in the fifteen hundreds. And I said, well.

I believe that God chooses us for salvation. that 2 Thessalonians 2.13, that he predestines us, Ephesians 1.5. That uh That faith in Christ is enough to justify us. Romans 5:1, Romans 3:28. Ephesians 2.8 and 9.

you know, quoting the verses. I said, Why is it you call what I do of the devil? And why is it you say what I believe is not found until the 1500s, and I quote the exact verses that I believe, and I don't have to interpret them, I just that's what it says, and that's what I affirm. They wouldn't answer the question. This to me is very interesting.

And it was a very interesting dialogue.

Now, you gotta understand this is not normal. In that, these kinds of conversations are not normal. Where this conversation occurred was on Discord. And there's a room. called Calvinism.

And I find it fascinating. That the room that's on the sovereignty of God, the majesty of God, the holiness of God, and salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. that that's the place where the well, basically the unbelievers go. and Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Mormons. and uh and elders like them.

They go and they attack The sovereignty of God, the majesty of God. And they mock it. And one guy would say, Well, I'm predestined to be like this, right, Matt? I said, Careful what you mock. And this is to me very interesting.

So, this room is actually like a crucible. for me. Because I go in and I make my mistakes and I do things right. They make mistakes, and sometimes they do something right, not very often. And It teaches me where I need to improve.

I got upset with these guys last night, I did, called them diaper Indians. And uh And I called one guy that three-letter word, that's that remote. Rhymes of glass because He was beating a donkey. And uh.

Okay. And man, oh man, and they would call me demon-possessed and of the devil. And I would go to scripture and just quote the verse that say what I believe. And then they would just deny it.

So, one of the reasons I'll stay in rooms like that is because. Um It helps me find new avenues of witnessing, to refine arguments. to see what's going on. And normally you go to places not like this. But this particular area is really uh condensed uh The the anger, the vitriol, the hatred.

that uh people have for the absolute sovereignty of God. for the complete work of Christ on the cross. And the complete trust in what he's done alone and not adding anything. And I kept saying to them, I said, You guys are adding your works to the blood of God. On that cross, that blood.

Is what is sufficient in and of itself. You guys add your works to it, you mix it with the blood of God in order to be saved. I said, that I said, Ladies and gentlemen, that is from the pit of hell. Because you're denying the sufficiency of the work of Christ on the cross by itself. And then they'll say, well, no, we don't teach that, man.

He's sufficient. His blood is sufficient to cleanse us. You just have to do good works to prove it. To prove what? to prove that the faith that God granted to you is true?

They always want to add works. Always. And they're lost. Because of it.

So, this was the encounter I had last night. It was interesting and Yeah. Believe it or not, I enjoyed that kind of thing. I do. I got issues, I know.

I enjoy that kind of stuff. Because it helps me learn. Let's get to Adam from North Carolina. Adam, welcome. You're on the air.

Mm-hmm. Oh my gosh, that was fast. I didn't expect it to be my turn yet. I'm Matt. Hey, how are you doing, buddy?

You're on, Vince. Let's look up on you. Picking up from our conversation on Friday, there is so much you unpacked for me, and I wrote it all down. I actually one thing I love about your show is that I don't have to listen to you live. I can review everything through the Internet that you've done.

So I think that's a fantastic thing.

So I listened to our conversation, most of it. I got cut off at the end. Right. But one thing I realized that I have a lot of questions and a lot of debate internally about predestination, annihilation, one saved, always saved, all of that. But none of that matters until.

We get through salvation. Right. I'm gonna break. It's all right.

Well, your time is great. Each time, right there in the break.

So, hey, hold on. We'll have 10 minutes afterwards, all right?

So, hold on, buddy. We'll get back to you. Um, folks, why don't you uh pray? Because that's something that we could use about now. And please, if you want to give me a call, you've got to wait.

We have no open lines, they're all filled up. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, you got to wait. We have no open lines. Let's get back on with Adam from North Carolina. Adam, welcome.

You're on the air. Yeah. Thanks, Matt.

So I think my biggest consecurity is with salvation. But before we deal with that, I feel you need a little bit of History.

so you can help me because I really, I really need help. Sure, no problem. Go. I come from a Catholic background.

So when I say Catholic, my grandmother was a little of 21 children. 17 of them, 17 of them were nuns.

Okay. So you can see where I'm going. Yep. Um Reality is it I mean Yeah. If you even trip over the Bible when you're of age, you can realize that.

Something is very, very wrong. And it wasn't long before I left that.

Okay. Hey there. Yeah. Are you worried about Losing your salvation? No, um Okay.

But wasn't bad even hobby yet? I'm sorry, I couldn't understand you. I apologize. What was that?

Okay. Or I'm crying. It's alright, it's alright. Could you? You know, um when you when you are a Catholic, you are you are raised Elam Killed.

Yep. Yep. And uh Yeah. Jeez, it's it's Yeah.

Okay, okay. Give me give me a side mirror. That's all right. I have nothing to sleep.

Okay. Well. Are you worried that you're not saved or can't be saved or What? Actually, I'm just happy doctor. You don't want to be a little bit more.

Tormented. Why not tormented? I am a horsey.

Well you better believe that that's correct. You're not worthy. Absolutely. No doubt about that. That's right.

Okay. You know, my biggest problem was salvation. Is not only am I not worthy, but I am constantly waiting. Yeah. Suffering.

When I tried it for Alchrist, I'm tormented. to do the wrong thing. And when I when I tried to do the right thing. I am not traumatized, and that's a problem. Paul had that problem, I think.

And and I don't know how to get over it. I pray about it. I know how. Before it. You vote.

Yeah, I do. Yes. One of the things, it's a multi-step thing here. One you've got to realize that the Roman Catholic Church is not a Christian church. No, definitely not.

It is in my opinion, this is my opinion, that the demonic forces are alive in the Vatican. and teaching their demonic doctrines to people. is full of bondage. full of sin. Self-righteousness, Guilt that you can never relieve unless you go to the church.

and get the Eucharist repeatedly over and over and over. It's bondage. and you've got to break that bondage. And the way to break it is to realize. that you are absolutely in every way not worth saving.

Yet God does it anyway. He saves people who Yeah. I come to serve it. Let me tell you, brother, Before I was uh before I became a Christian, I was involved in the occult. in the occult.

Silences contacting the dead. Foul-mouthed. and mixed up in bad stuff. God saved me. All that is gone because the Bible says there's now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Jesus saves you. Not because of what you've done, but because of who he is. He loves you not because of you, but because of him. He saves you not based on you, but based on him. You have to get your eyes off of you.

You're not worth saving. I'm not worth saving. We're guilty. That's just it. That's it.

And yet he loves us. Matt, all all of that, uh not only do I know, Not the way I believe. I would if somebody were to have a conversation with me in the street, that is what I would tell them. But it's the same time. There's no I struggle.

There's no guilt left, is there? Look at the cross. Imagine yourself. On your knees before Jesus, who's on the cross. And that blood is dripping down.

That's what saves you. and only that. I don't know how to do that. I really don't. You can just visualize it for one thing.

The image. of Golgotha, of that man on the cross. you visualize him up there. blood coming down onto the dirt. And that cleanses you.

You're not there. You're not on the cross. Your works aren't up there. In that blood of God washes over you and it gets down into everything you are. and makes you clean.

completely him not I believe you, A. I know it's true. B. But the second I try to follow Christ, immediately. Everything.

I mean, everything back to when I was thirteen years old floods my mind, insects me, and I Mm-hmm. I can do it. It's washed away. You have to say it over and over, and you have to choose to believe it. You choose.

To trust in him beyond your ability to understand. You choose to trust that what his blood is capable of washes all that away. And it always has been.

Okay, you're gonna do that. And here's something else.

Now, I believe Jesus only died for the ones given to him. I don't believe he died for every s every individual in the world.

Now the reason I'm bringing that up is because Jesus says in John 10 11, I'll lay my life down for the sheep. And he says in John 10:36, he says, All the Father gives me will come to me. The ones that are given by the Father to the Son are the ones he lays his life down for. And in light of that, in Colossians 2:14, it says Jesus canceled our sin debt at the cross. He doesn't cancel it when you get baptized.

He doesn't cancel it when you believe. He cancels it at the cross. and when you believe, which is His work, He grants it to you. Philippians 1:29, that's when you're justified. That's when the righteousness of God is given to you.

Okay, that's flippants three nine. All that is simple. You have to believe it over and over and over again. You've got to choose to believe it. You've got to choose to rest on the cross.

You to choose to say it a thousand times a day if you have to. The blood of Christ cleanses me. No matter what. We got a break, okay? Hold on.

Alright, hold on, buddy. But that's all we gotta do. Hope to be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. Be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Adam from North Carolina. Adam, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

So I was writing things down while we were on break and One of the things I wrote down was blind faith in the Bible, and I don't believe that's actually true. And I don't believe blind faith is an actual thing. We have so much. Evidence. We have so much proof in spirit and in word and in history.

And I have to wonder why the hell am I. I'm sorry, why the heck am I saying that? Because I I just You know, I wonder, do I believe because I am knowledgeable, I am intelligent, and I know the truth, But don't leave because I've been reborn. That's my struggle.

Well, it seems to me you know. but you're having trouble getting it down into your heart, so to speak. that bridge occurs when you faith.

So the word faith. But to faith is a word I like to say, is your choosing to believe and trust in him beyond your ability to understand in spite of what you feel. That's a great act of faith. If you feel one thing, but you choose best you can, as weakly as you can, as imperfectly as you can, you go through the motions and you say, Lord, my heart betrays me. I choose to believe in you.

Lord, I believe, help my unbelief. All of this. you continue to rest on Him, gradually the Spirit will work in you. and bring you to that place of trust. And a lot of times what God will do is he will bring you to to the end of yourself.

When you have to get rid of the guilt complex of Catholicism, it's embedded into your soul. You have to get rid of it, and you got to replace it. with the gift of God's grace. that you don't deserve it, and he loves you anyway. Making it real in you takes time.

But it's workable. You just have to trust God to do it in the process. It's been decades. We've been doing this for decades.

Well then um If you've been doing it for decades, Maybe you have uh trouble trusting Christ.

Now I say that.

Sometimes someone who's been struggling for a long time needs a polite slap upside the head.

Okay. I never know how to see it. Maybe you're not trusting Christ. the way you need to. That's not saying you're not trusting in Him for salvation.

But it's it's like this. We can trust God to save us, but we can't trust God to make us right and make us good and to cleanse our hearts and our souls and all this stuff. Because we're so entrenched in our guilt and the unworthiness that we know is true. that we guilt whip ourselves. because we want to make ourselves worthy, which is an old habit of s the stupidity of Catholicism.

And you just got to break through it. And the way to break through it is to confess the truth. before God. Lord, I don't feel it. but I'm going to choose to trust you.

and one per cent out of a hundred is where I'm at, Lord. are 99% struggling. And I got 1%, I'm choosing to trust you. and maybe in a month it'll be two percent. Another month will be 5%.

This kind of thing, you have to do it, you have to go through it. I know. Because I had to do the same thing. I didn't do the same thing. No, no, you didn't.

You had a. Thanks. What do you say? You drew. You had a tremendous conversion experience, that's true.

But after years. there became an issue of knowing the truth of my salvation and the guilt. and they fought with each other. and sometimes I would feed one over the other. until I finally after a while learned you know I had to trust God for everything.

not just my salvation. And that was the key for me. Because You know, as much as I know and the great experience of salvation I had, meeting Christ, and all of that. we still have the carcase of our dead flesh, That's dragging us down. And sometimes you just got to keep killing that old man.

You gotta keep shootin' it in the head. over and over and over again. That old man, you gotta keep doing it. until it stays down. That takes sometimes years.

And it's what you need. That's what's in the amount.

Okay. I know it's what I need, but oh my gosh, that's so hard. Oh, you got that right. Man, it's hard. It's hard.

But it's just easy? Yeah, that's significant.

Well you know what? It's so easy. I know. And there's no struggle. Oh no, there's always struggles.

Mm. Oh, no, no. Oh, yeah, yeah, you're right. Correct me. Thank you.

But there's no struggle spiritually because When you let go of God, Yeah. It's yes. Life is so easy. But when you embrace God Yeah. The spiritual warfare becomes real and hard.

I know. I know. How about this? I got a suggestion for you to memorize some scripture. A motherboard.

Romans 8.1 is an easy verse to remember. Romans 8.1. First verse in Romans. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. You got to say it over and over in your head.

Another one, a bit longer, is 1 John 1:9. If we confess our sins, he's faithful and righteous to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I would recommend that you memorize those two and you quote them to yourself. over and over again. Oh my gosh, Matt, I already have it.

Keep doing it then. Keep doing it. and get your eyes on the cross, and not your own heart. Stop with the idolatry that Roman Catholicism has granted you. The idolatry of looking to someone other than God for your security.

Oh, I know, I know, I know, trust me, I totally understand.

So you gotta s take your eyes off of your own heart. You take your eyes off of your own heart, your own mind, as much as you can, and put it on that cross and see Jesus up there. you know, I sometimes will visualize I never visualize his face, but I visualize the blood of his body running down in the dirt. And I remember that. I put it in my head as the place of my redemption.

That. is why I'm saved. That alone. Not my works, not my goodness, not my struggles, but what he did. That is what will set you free.

It's him. Nothing in you, everything in him. and you can start to release yourself into his arms more and more. That way.

Well you have to do it that way, man.

Okay. I'm taking my notes, I'll do my best. And do your best and call me back. You do your best, you call your money back and tell me how you failed, because you're going to fail, like I do. And then you look at the cross again.

And again, In fact, there's a devotion I have on my website. You might want to look up. But it's called To the Cross Again I Go.

Okay. To the cross again I go, to devotion. and uh or to the cross again. And there's a poem I start off with. To the cross again I go, There is nothing else I know.

its strength is all I need Where Jesus for me bleed. to cleanse me of my sins, to give me strength within. Jesus alone I know. To the cross again I go.

Okay. Okay, uh Okay. All right. And then call me back if you guys Coming back in a few days, man. All right?

And keep a journal. Keep a journal. You'd be surprised what it'll do for you. Good call. I'm sorry.

Yeah, journal of 50 words, 100 words or less a day. and then you can review and you'll see your progress.

Okay. It may take a while, but we'll see it.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Alright, man.

God bless, buddy.

Okay. Folks, pray for Adam. Lift him up. This is a real struggle that a lot of people coming out of cults deal with, and Catholicism meets orthodoxy, and it's hard. Let's get to Kent from North Carolina.

Kent, welcome. You're on the air. Hey there, Matt. I've I've called a couple of times. What I need to ask you this this day is Uh In Matthew and Mark, When Jesus told Peter.

Uh get behind me, Satan. Uh Had Satan entered into Peter. Uh I know the uh Holy Spirit hadn't the Hadn't entered into the disciples yet at Pentecost. And I'm just wondering if Satan did not enter him. No, it doesn't.

It just says, Get behind me, Satan, be you're a stumbling block to me. Because Peter was not focusing on the cross, but on him not going to the cross. And that was ultimately from the devil. But no, Satan did not enter into Peter.

Okay, it doesn't say that. Hold on, we'll write back, okay? Folks, we read back after these messages, please. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Alright, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Thomas for just a. Whoops, the wrong one. Uh Whew, yes, I think I messed up there.

Um Sorry about that. How long we get back to Kent, okay, because Kent was the one who was waiting.

Okay, let's get to. Oh, we have to worry about talking to Kent.

Sorry, doing three things on a brick.

So, Kent, I mean, yeah, Kent.

Sorry about that. No, so did that answer that? Jesus, I mean, Peter. Saint did not enter Peter. What?

Yeah. Yeah, uh John MacArthur's uh his uh the Bible says that uh Satan used Peters as a mouthpiece.

So I don't know if he Yeah, that that's doable. But Satan did not enter into him.

Okay? But it does say in other places that Satan entered into Judas. It's what specifically tells us the case. Right, right. That's what I'm thinking, and that was before Pentecost, so.

I was wondering if he could enter then two Peters. Nope. Nothing in the Bible says that, okay? All right, buddy.

Okay. All right, man.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, okay. God bless. Bye. All right, now let's get on with uh Nick's long is waiting. Let's see.

We'll go to Brad from North Carolina. Brad, welcome. You're on the air. Uh Hey Matt, uh just got a quick question about the new heavens and new earth. Um in Revelations 21.

Just trying to get some clarity on why would God create another heaven and earth, or if that's just. Yeah. He's revamping it. It's Earth 2.0.

So sin, okay, Adam represented mankind and it represented nature because when Adam sinned, sin entered the world through Adam, Romans 5:12.

So the world is affected by sin and all the crud that's in it and all the filth that's in it by human work and sin that's caused things. He's going to cleanse it all out, hence new heavens, new earth.

Okay? All right. Alright.

Okay, and uh so just um Because I guess my concern, not concerned, but like I always thought that we're working towards going to a heaven. that's already made. And now, like, after all the you know Revelations happen, he's going to make another heaven. Is that correct? Or is the earth going to be heaven?

No, earth is earth, heaven is heaven.

Okay. Earth is not heaven. Yeah. But there's the new earth made, new heavens is talking about that realm. In Jewish cosmology, the new heavens and the earth, new heavens, I'm not sure I'm on the right track here.

It's 2 Peter 3:10, I believe it is. Yeah. No, that's not good. New heavens tend. Yeah.

The new heavens, plural. We're getting a lot of background noise. I'm going to mute you for a sec, okay? Um So it says heavens and plural. The reason it says heavens is because in Jewish cosmology there were three heavens.

The first heaven was where the birds and the clouds are, the second heaven is the stars, the moon, the sun, and the third heaven was the dwelling place of God.

So that the dwelling place of God isn't going to be remade, that God's in it. It'll be the first two that are understood there.

Okay, Brad? All right. Great. Thank you. All right, buddy.

God bless, man.

Okay. Alright, bye.

Alright.

All right, now Jermaine's been waiting for 37 minutes. Jermaine, buddy, welcome. You're on the air. Just begin. Hey man, great show today.

I'll be quick because I know we're at the end, but Paul forbidding women to teach, do you think that includes Bible studies, because I actually participate. in a study run by a female relative who I've mentioned before, She calls herself a pastor, but I don't consider myself under her authority in any way, shape, or form, and we're just. discussing scripture with multiple people, but would you think that's in the same category? Um That's a tough one because we don't want to use, have any excuse for her to become. A person in spiritual authority over men in the church context.

And that's the guidance we have to go by. And so if she's just having a study at the house, not under a church, and facilitating a study, okay. You know, the study that I have, we have women who come in, and sometimes they'll give a position. And that's fine. I don't have any problem with that.

But they're not in spiritual authority over men, and that's the case. If she's in a spiritual authority over men, we would absolutely say no. Not to do that. She can't be a pastor. And if she wants to act like a pastor in a Bible study group, then she needs to be talked to about what is in her heart.

And what she's desiring to do, and what the construct is of this environment, and things like that.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, and now she considers herself a pastor, and I believe she has a small group that calls her congregation or whatever, but I don't consider her over me in any way, shape or form. would that still be in violation?

Well, she's not a pastor. She's just wrong because she doesn't understand what the Word of God says. And so if she can't even get that right, which is very simple in Scripture, I wouldn't trust her to understand the other stuff.

So, um That's just me. I would take her aside and say, Can you show me how you can be a woman, pastor, in the Bible, please? Thank you. Okay. Shouldn't be a little bit.

The reason I hung around so long is For the discussions was actually for the benefit of other people, and I was invited. And her uh her son Who's an adult? He contacted me privately and said he he'd like to have some Bible studies.

Well, just he and I And uh He brought up that question, and I think it was Bodhi Bakham. He said, listen to a lot of him, and. He knows he doesn't like women preachers. I said, Well, Voti's just reading out of Timothy, if you read chapters two and three, it states it pretty clear. And that I thought that some fruit came out of that But I don't consider this person she's a good person, you know and all, but I she's not over me in any way, shape or form.

But yeah, I agree with you. I don't think I don't believe that women are called to be pastors. No, they're not. Or elders. And it's an issue of respect to what God has decreed, what God has arranged.

It's a respectful thing to the order of God, and she's usurping that.

So, if she calls herself a pastor, she's in violation of the Word of God. And as I've done so many hundreds of times over 23 years of radio. If anybody wants to debate me on this, I'll fly out to your church at my expense. We'll have a public debate on the topic: Does the Bible support women, pastors, and elders?

Okay, I don't know how many 200 times I said that, never get any responders on it. But no, the Bible doesn't support her self-proclamation of being a pastor. She's not. That's not good.

So I would just say no. But uh I wouldn't You know, me, and you can do what you want. I mean, I would never go to a Bible study, uh, me, because I'd be going, wait a minute, why is she doing this? Why is she doing that? Wait, if it's just a woman who's teaching a study and she has some interesting information, interesting insights, you know, I'd go check it out.

I don't have a problem with that. Maybe she's was a woman living in the Middle East and has some insights, and she's teaching a study on it. Man, I'm going to go. As long as She's if she's independent, that's an issue. If she's doing it because the church has authorized her and they recognize her not as an elder or teaching authority in any way, and she's just giving information, okay.

We've got to kind of be careful in the gray area here, but you know, we don't want to just silence women. Of course, we want them to utilize their gifts, but they just cannot be spiritual authority of the church. And men, we want to make sure that doesn't happen. That's all. Just tough.

Okay, I'll save part two for tomorrow nowhere near the end, but appreciate your show as usual and. And thank you for that earlier call. God bless you. No problem.

Okay, buddy.

Well, God bless, man. All right, now let's get to Thomas from California. Thomas, welcome. You're on the air. Okay.

Hey, man, love your show, brother. Amen. Thanks a lot. Hey up. I got a buddy who was telling me he believes that the Old Testament.

Uh profits are not saved. Because it's pre-Jesus. Or the thing else. If you're not safe to be trying to get that, it's the first time I had ever heard that, but. If you don't.

Yeah, that's incorrect, okay. Um and so what I'm going to do is show you something.

So Abraham was a prophet.

Okay. In Genesis 15, 6, then he, that's Abraham, believed in the Lord, and he, God, reckoned to him as righteousness.

So, this is Genesis 15:6.

So, Abraham was declared righteous by God by his faith. That is referenced in. Romans 4:3, and Abraham believed God who was counted to him as righteousness.

So, right there. We have salvation and justification of Abraham.

Furthermore, Adam and Eve were in the garden. And the pre-incarnate Christ covered them with animal skins, signifying the work of God, the shedding of blood. They were saved.

So your your friend is simply incorrect.

Okay. Okay, i is righteousness uh Would is that the same as salvation? Yes, it's not exactly the same. You can't take one word for the other normally, but righteousness deals with according to the law. Salvation means you're not being judged by God to damnation.

We're saved from God's righteous judgment. Part of what is necessary to be saved from God's righteous judgment is the declaration of righteousness upon us. And this is received by faith.

So the person, the sinner, has sin. If he wants to be saved from God's righteous judgment upon him for his sin, if he wants to be saved, he needs to trust in Christ. Normally speaking, now the Old Testament saints looked ahead and they were justified by faith. But he has to have that faith in the work and truth of what God is and what he's doing. and by that he then has the righteousness of God reckoned to his account.

Philippians 3.9, uh Genesis fifteen, six, Romans four, three.

So, salvation is being declared legally, excuse me, salvation is being delivered from the righteous judgment of God. Salvation is having the righteousness of God given to you. uh by faith. That's they're they're different, but they but they go together. It's like peanut butter jelly sandwich.

You can't have a peanut butter jelly sandwich without peanut butter and jelly.

So in salvation, you can't have salvation without justification, and you can't have justification without salvation. They both go together.

Okay. All right. Perfect. Thank you, Matt. I appreciate it, brother.

All right, man.

God bless, buddy.

All right. Okay. Oh, sorry about that, cut him off.

So uh hey there you go.

Now We don't have anybody waiting right now from a full house to. Oh, we got about a minute left in the show. Just want to let you know that we stay on the air by your support. If. If you want to support us and you like what you hear on the radio network, please well, you know, just go to uh Carm.org and you'll find the donate button at the top of the page.

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So, your money that you support us with. is there. And it's very helpful.

Okay, it really is. It really is a lot. And also, pray for Adam from earlier who's struggling with this issue of guilt that the lies of the false church of Roman Catholicism has brought upon him. And just. Just damaged his heart.

is damaged his heart because uh Uh you all everybody needs to know. that salvation is not based on your goodness. Is based on God's goodness. It's not based on how much you can be used, it's based on what God can do. It's all in him.

and if you trust in him alone. and and nothing in yourself. You put all your hope in Christ. You'll be fine. You'll be safe.

Video judgment.

Alright, everybody, there's the music. I'm out of here. May the Lord bless you, and by His grace, we'll be back on here tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. God bless.

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