The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Hey, we have five open lines. Why don't you give them a call?
877-207-2276. And we have a chat room, too, if you are interested in joining us. We've got people in there already, and it usually goes up to about 50 people.
And they're regulars. It's kind of fun, you know, just letting you know that if you want to do that, you go to the CARM home page, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And you can then sign up or not sign up. You're just going to watch, listen, participate, whatever you want to do.
And you can get in with the chat people and stuff like that. You can watch. It's not a big deal, but it's there, all right? All right, so, hey, look, we have five open lines. I want you to give me a call, and we can talk about whatever you want to talk about. Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, Baha'i, Islam, Christian theology, Bible questions, logic, and things like that. Now, as some of you may already be aware, I've written a great deal on annihilationism. And the reason I've written on annihilationism is because it's rearing its ugly head.
Now, I'll explain why I'm talking about it right now. There are aspects of annihilationism that are within orthodoxy, and then there's aspects of annihilationism that are damnable heresies. And I've written some articles, and one of them is 50 questions for annihilationists, for conditionalists to answer. And I've decided that I won't debate anybody on this topic unless they answer all the questions because then I'll know where they're coming from because, unfortunately, there's a lot of people who don't answer questions very specifically. And so if you want to see that article on 50 questions, you can go to the CARM website. What prompted this was I made a couple of new friends here in a debate with some annihilationists.
This was a 212 about three weeks ago. And Chris Date and Glenn Peeples did an after show about a week after the debate. And I went through the after show because I watched the entire debate and I did the after show.
And normally I wouldn't really be worrying about stuff like this because I've got so much to do. But anything that risks salvation, any teaching that voids salvation, either by teaching a false god or a false christ or a false gospel, any group that does that, any teaching that does that, I must tackle. Inside of physicalism are different doctrines, different positions to be held. And one of them is called physicalism, which is self-refuting, but that's another topic. Physicalism says that the human person or the human part ceases to exist upon death. If that's the case, then that would invalidate the hypostatic union, which is the teaching that the person of Christ, a single person of Christ, has two distinct natures, a divine nature and a human nature.
This is biblical orthodoxy. This is basic Christian doctrine, the hypostatic union. Well, if the human nature dies at death, then the hypostatic union is violated and Jesus is no longer Jesus because Jesus, by definition, has those two natures. And if one of those natures dies, then the hypostatic union is invalidated. If that's invalidated, then there is no resurrection of the person.
There's a recreation and a continuity issue. And that means that the sacrifice of Christ is invalid and this risks the issue of salvation. So I had to tackle this and I wrote an article analyzing, naming names and things like that, and that if people do hold to that, I'm going to tell you, if you're an annihilationist and you hold to the view that Jesus' human nature ceased to exist, then you're teaching heresy, damnable heresy.
And that's not to say you're not a Christian, but if you don't repent of it, if you understand what the issues are and you don't repent of it, then I can't call you a brother or sister in Christ. It is that serious an issue. So because this has raised its head, I produced two more articles on... I'm reading the text. I produced two more articles, so that totals the number of articles I've written on annihilationism to 182. Yes, I've done a lot of research on it. And actually because of these questions that I've written, I think what I'm going to do is also write a series of questions for each major topic, like Catholicism, Atheism, Islam, and things like that, and put them up on the respective sections of Karm and then just say, hey, look, if anybody wants to debate me, you've got to answer all these questions.
And the reason is, is real simple. I'm not trying to trap anybody. I just want to know what they teach about particular issues. And I know how to write questions with certain phraseology in order to get the precise answers out in order to know what someone actually believes, and that's what I want to do. So I'll be working on those. For me, that's exciting. I told my wife today, I said, guess what I did?
And I explained about these 50 questions I had to do logically and do with physicalism and the hypostatic union, the communicatio idiomatum, and the nature of the Trinity and all this stuff. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a good time. And she looked at me and said, I'm glad you like doing that. See, she likes doing, which I cannot fathom. I don't get this, how anybody could like this.
She likes to sit in front of the computer and get the orders and donations and various things that come in, and she puts them into all the places that she's got to put them into, all the data and all this and that. Move them here, put it over there. And to me, no thank you. That is not my idea of a good time. So, hey, we don't like what we each other do, so to speak, but it works out perfectly because we do the other stuff people don't want to do. I like that. All right, so I've been talking quick and slick.
If you want to give me a call, five open lines, folks, give me a call, 877-207-2276. I want to let you know also that the traffic for the site is going down a little, and I think that's just simply because of the year, I mean the year, the time of the year, and it does kind of happen that way. So I just want to let you know that if you have questions and things like that, if you go to the CARM website to go check it out, it really helps us a great deal with SEO, search engine optimization. We're trying to learn how to do all that kind of stuff and get even more better at it.
That's right, good English there. Trying to get more better at it so that we can get even more traffic going and all kinds of stuff. So if that sounds good, you can go check us out. If you look something up, you can go on the web. Here's a trick.
You go on like Google, whatever, just type in the word CARM and then do your search, it will automatically come up to the CARM site. Hey, how about that? Pretty cool, huh?
So all right, three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Steve from North Carolina. Steve, welcome.
You're on the air. Hey, how are you, Matt? I'm doing okay. Hanging in there. Hanging in there.
So just a quick background. I was brought up Catholic and then I joined the Church of Christ. I was in there for about four years when I was in my mid-20s. And I left church completely after that for a long time. Back now to a Baptist-style church. So I've been studying a lot because it still kind of bothers me, the whole baptismal thing, especially more from the Church of Christ than anything else. It's still kind of in my head when I read the Bible, like when I read about baptism.
So I've been doing a lot of studying. And I'm just curious, what do you consider the best verse to combat, or is there a best verse to combat baptismal regeneration? Well, one of the verses I like to go to is as simple as Romans 5.1, which says, and I'll read it to you because I want to make sure you get it. I do it perfectly.
This is out of the NSB. Romans 5.1 says, Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. So I ask them, can you read Romans 5.1? Therefore, having been justified by faith.
And then ask them, what is justification? Well, it means you're saved. It means you're right before God.
Okay, good. And it says by faith. Do you agree that the text says having been justified by faith? They'll say yes.
Then ask the question. Then if the Bible says we're justified by faith, then are we justified by faith when we have faith? If they say yes, they refute baptism. Right, because they're going to say... Go ahead.
Because I know them, because I was one of them. They're going to say, well, faith is part, baptism is part of faith. Okay, and I'd say then the scripture says, having been justified by faith. So are we justified by faith when we have faith? You ask the same question again.
Now, I'm going to tell you something that happens. So you stick on that verse and stick with the faith thing, basically saying that... Over and over again. Do it over and over again. You say, I've taught people to do this before, and I recommend you do this. Romans 5-1 says having been justified by faith, and you agreed that we're justified by faith, so if we're justified by faith, are we justified by faith when we have faith? That's what Romans 5-1 says. And what I'm doing is saying it over and over and over again, Romans 5-1, having been justified by faith, over and over again, so that they're going to memorize it. And what you'll find is a lot of times people in wacko cult religious groups like that group are going to say, well, you know, faith is manifested when you get baptized. And say, well, let me ask another question.
Are we justified by faith when we have faith? I don't even go into that. I just ask them the same question, and I'll even ask them sometimes, why won't you answer my question? I am answering your question. No.
And I'll say to them, how about this? Do you believe that statements are either true or false? Yeah, you know, 2 plus 2 is 4. It's either true or false right now. We're justified by faith when we have faith. True or false?
Almost 5-1. True or false? Well, if they say false, then they deny the scriptures. If they say true, then they deny their baptismal regeneration. This is why you just harp on this.
Every single way, different ways, go over it. Don't fall for the red herring. Well, you see, baptism over here in Acts 2-38, 1 Peter 3-21, Acts 22-16.
That's all they do. Acts 2-38, 1 Peter. And what you do is you say, look, you say, look, I can address those later, but I'm asking you a specific question right now. The Bible says in Romans 5-1, having been justified by faith, you've already agreed that the Bible says we're justified by faith. Now, if they by any chance say, well, what kind of faith? Is it real faith, true faith, false faith, you know, whatever?
So Philippians 1-29, you can memorize these addresses together. For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for his sake. So God grants that you believe. So if they say what kind of faith, they say the kind of faith that God grants you. What was that in the Philippians? Philippians 1-29.
Philippians 1-29, okay. But that's a big, what do you call it, a Calvinist thing, right? Well, if it's Calvinist, then that's what the Bible teaches, isn't it? I'm not saying it's wrong or right. I know you're pretty big on Calvinists.
Well, it's because I read the Scriptures, you know? That's what it says. Well, that's what it says. Let's get back on track. Let's get back on track.
That's exactly what happens. So Romans 5-1, having been justified by faith, okay? Having been justified by faith. It's important that we focus on that, okay?
It's really important by faith. Stay at that spot. Just keep bringing them back. Stay there until they don't want to talk to you anymore. They hate your guts, and they're going to move out of state if you live there, okay?
But they'll memorize it. Anybody? Call. Okay. Hold on.
We've got a break. Hold on. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages.
One open line. Give me a call. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. All right. Let's get back on the air with Steve. Are you still there, buddy?
Yep. I'm here. Okay, man.
We kind of ran out of time there. So did I answer your question sufficiently? Yeah, I think you're good. And I know you have other call.
I don't want to pick up too much time. The only other thing would be how do you address Acts 22-16 with them? Oh, okay. You just do context, okay? You go to Acts 22-16, and, well, yeah, context is everything, but why do you delay, get up, be baptized, wash away your sins, calling on his name? What washes away your sins? Water or calling on the name of Jesus?
Just ask them the question. They're going to say, well, baptized means to be immersed. That's what they're going to say. And say, if that's the case, then why was Jesus sprinkled at his baptism? And they're going to say, he was not. He was immersed.
And then you go to Carm. You look up the article. Why was Jesus baptized? I already read that article.
I thought it was interesting. Well, he was baptized according to the law, and the law required sprinkling. That's what the Old Testament required. But in that article, you say that it's not definitive, right? You just think that that's what it was.
Or are you thinking definitively? Right. When Jesus said the reason to get baptized was to fulfill all righteousness, Matthew 3.15, we notice that in that context that God the Father speaks and blesses Jesus, that the Holy Spirit comes out upon Jesus. Jesus was 30 years old, and he had to have an issue of water. So those things are found in the Old Testament as requirements for a man to enter into the priesthood. And Jesus is a high priest after the order of Melchizedek, Hebrews 5.26.40.
So since he's a high priest, when did he enter into the priesthood? He had to follow those Old Testament rules. He had to follow those Old Testament rules. And so it's a pretty strong case that he was doing what was required according to the Old Testament law in order to fulfill the law.
That's what it says. He didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. And so he fulfilled that scripture. Because ultimately all priesthood, Aaronic, Melchizedek, Levitical, is all ultimately about Jesus Christ. So he is a true high priest.
And he had to become a high priest according to the law, which is why he had to wait until he was 30 years old because that's what the law required. And then it requires sprinkling. It requires sprinkling.
And that's a thing. And you go to Hebrews 9.10 where it talks about washings. And the Greek word there is baptismos.
And washings, baptismos, right? And yet when you read the context, it's about sprinklings. It is. Interesting. And look at this.
I'm trying to give you a little bit of a heads up here. I think if you go to Acts 1, let's see if I can find it really fast. John baptized with water, but you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is pouring because that's how the Holy Spirit is said to be baptized.
A person. From Joel 2, 32, I think it's 32 to 23. I can't remember. And that is always prophesied that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is by the pouring. That's what it means in the context of the Holy Spirit. Baptism in the Old Testament. And so, and because it says, let me see if I can find it here really fast.
Pour. For I will pour forth my spirit on all mankind. Now that's Acts 2, 17.
That's what it says. But he's quoting Joel 2, 28. Which, what's a prophecy, he'll pour forth his spirit on all mankind. And then he says in verse 18, I will on those days pour forth my spirit and they shall prophesy. Well if you go back, that's in Acts 2, 17 and 18. Well it says in Acts 1, 5 that you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit, it means the Holy Spirit will be poured out upon you.
Right? So what is the word baptism there? So it says John baptized with water. He immersed with water, but you'll have the Holy Spirit poured out upon you. Both of them are baptized. So does it make more sense to say that John the Baptist poured water? Because think of this.
Oh I see what you've done. Because think of this. Because they're always saying that that word in the Greek means immersion. It doesn't always. They always used to say that.
It doesn't. And I've just shown it from scripture. Plus, I haven't done this in a long time.
We've got college, but let me run this by you really fast. So I've been to the Jordan River over in Israel. And I would not want to stand in it for very long because it was cold. I could stand in it for up to a half hour, I'd be shivering. Maybe an hour, you know, get me out, get me something warm to drink.
You know, things like that. It was cold. Now, let's just picture a person who weighs 100 pounds. And John the Baptist is sitting out in the Jordan River. How deep is he out in the river? Let's just say he's up to his hips so that he can immerse somebody. So someone comes out in the water and weighs 100 pounds, and that's including the clothing. He dips them underneath the water and he lifts them up. Let's say they weigh 102 pounds because of two pounds of water.
Okay? Because there's clothes that are saturated, let's say, or maybe one pound. It doesn't matter.
But he's going to come up weighing a little bit more. Now, he baptized over and over and there were like 3,000 that were baptized in one night at one time in Acts chapter 2. 3,000 people. Now, it does not say how many people were doing the baptisms.
But what I did was, just to illustrate, I did a little bit of math analysis. Let's say they're baptizing for eight hours straight. The 12 disciples. And they baptized 3,000 people in eight hours standing in water for eight hours. In cold water for eight hours up to their hips. Hypothermia is going to be a problem. And if they're dunking them down in the water and lifting them up, it's going to be heavy.
And I've baptized people in the river here in Boise, Idaho. And I'm telling you, on the way up, it's hard. Because you've got to lift them up.
Because they go backwards. And it's lift. I have to actually get my, I have a slightly weak back because of a birth defect, my lower vertebra. And so I just, you know, I'm okay. I just muscled myself down and got a certain position, lifted them up.
Not a problem. But I could not end up doing that even for a half hour or 20 minutes. My back would seize up.
That's just me. Now, a healthy person with a healthy, healthy back could probably do it for two, three hours. But in hypothermic conditions, how long are they going to do it? Okay, so they don't go out that far. They stay up to their knees. Well, then you've got to go down even further to lift them up. So if 12 disciples were baptizing for eight hours, that's an average of like two minutes and 20 seconds per baptism. Well, you've got to do the ceremony.
You're going to say the words, et cetera, et cetera, and then dip them down. So, you know, I don't know how strong you are, I mean, whatever. But could you lift a person or could you lower someone into the water and then stand up, stand up with them, and do that for eight hours every two minutes and 20 seconds? Yeah, no way.
But I don't need locusts either, so I don't know. Yeah, it's true. But I'm trying to show you that when people just, they say this baptism, they don't put flesh and blood on it. And so it makes more sense that how it was done in the Old Testament is that they would use hyssop branches, dip the hyssop branches in the water, and sprinkle the people.
That's how it was done in the Old Testament, and hyssop grew on the banks of the Jordan. Yeah, that just, I'm not, I agree with you, I'm not disagreeing with you. It's just hard for me to get my head around that only based upon, like being a Catholic, that's what they do. They sprinkle the babies. You know, they're not immersing the babies.
They're presbyterian sprinkle babies. It doesn't mean they're saved. It's just, you've got to be, wrap your head around it and it'll get you. I'm just giving information that most people just, they're not even aware of. And you know, it'll get you thinking. Right.
People then complain, you made me think too much. Okay, buddy, you've got to go. All right? Okay. All right, appreciate it. All right, man. Thank you. All right, hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages to Open Lines 877-207-2276.
We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, let's get to Calvin from Raleigh, North Carolina. Calvin, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt. Hi.
So what do you got, buddy? Okay, so my question is, in relation to 1 Corinthians chapter 15, I think it's verse 42 or 42 to 44. It talks about the second Adam. The last Adam, actually. How does that compare to, right, the last Adam? Yeah, verse 45, verse 45.
How does that compare to what Christ had told his disciples when he had ascended, and he had told them that he's going to leave a spirit behind to give them comfort? Is the both of those Adam's the same? No. If it's not the same, how different is it? Okay, the doctrine of federal headship is what this is talking about. Federal headship is the teaching that the male represents the descendants, not the female.
I have an article on Karm on this called Federal Headship. I recommend you read it. But what it is is, you know, in Adam all die, 1 Corinthians 15, 22 says. And it also says in Christ all should be made alive.
And that's the first all and the second all are limited, the second one is. And so what this is talking about is the first Adam became a living soul. That's Adam. The last Adam, that's Jesus, became a life-giving spirit. And what he's talking about here is the nature of the resurrection. When it says a life-giving spirit doesn't mean he didn't have a body of flesh and bones, because he did, Jesus prophesied his own physical resurrection in John 2, 19-21. So what's going on here, the last Adam is not the Holy Spirit, it's the person of Christ.
Okay? Uh-huh. The person of Christ. The person of Christ. He's referenced as the last Adam, not the second, but the last Adam. Because the first Adam was sinless, he fell. The last Adam was not sinless, he did not, I mean he was also sinless, oh boy is this heresy. So the last Adam was sinless and did not fall. The first Adam represented all people, the last Adam represented his own people. And that's Romans 5, 18, 1 Corinthians 15, 22. I've taught on this many, many, many times over the years. So this is what's going on here.
The Holy Spirit is another helper, the comforter, out of John 14, 26, John 15, 26, but that he is not the last Adam, because the last Adam here is theological about resurrection, the first Adam, and that means it's about Adam, as in Adam and Eve. Okay? Uh-huh. Okay. Okay. Alright. Thanks Matt. Okay. And also Romans 5, 14, thanks Charlie for putting that in there.
I'm going to read that. Romans 5, 14 says this, Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned, in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who was a type of him who was to come. So that helps further demonstrate that it's the last Adam is Jesus. Because the first Adam is a type of him who was to come. So the last Adam and the first Adam are related there.
Romans 5, 14. Alright? Okay. Alright man. Alright. Thanks Matt. Okay. God bless. See Charlie in the text room put that verse in for me. Thanks a lot Charlie, appreciate it. Let's get to a journey from Wyoming.
I was just looking at Wyoming map stuff last night. How about that? So what do you got? Well, my sister and I are both ex-Jehovah's witnesses.
I left about six years ago and my sister did about two years ago. And in our Bible study, we're trying to figure out what truth is. There are still some things left over from Watchtower that are hang ups for us. And we just need a little bit of help to get over that hump and see things properly. Alright. So we were hoping you would help us with that. I would love to. I would love to. So what questions have you got? Okay, I've made a list and we'll just do what we can in the time allotted. The most important thing we both feel is, is it okay to pray to Jesus?
Yes. In verse 14, ask me anything in my name and I will do it. That's what Jesus says. Also in Acts 7, 55 through 60, Stephen is being stoned to death. He has a vision of the glory of God, let's speak of the Father. And Jesus standing at the right hand and he addresses Jesus.
Okay. And there's a phrase in the Old Testament to call upon the name of Yahweh. It occurs in Zechariah 13, 9 and Psalms 116, 4. And it's a phrase to call upon the name of Yahweh. It means the phrase, not just each one word, but the whole phrase of the combination, call upon the name of Yahweh.
That phrase means to offer prayer to, worship and adoration to Yahweh. Well the Septuagint, you know what the Septuagint was? Do you know?
We have one. Okay. So for those who don't know, the Septuagint, it was the Jews about 200 B.C. translated the Old Testament Hebrew into the New Testament, into Greek, about 200 to 250 B.C. They took that phrase, call upon the name of Yahweh, they translated it into the phrase, call upon the name of the Lord.
All right? Call upon the name of the Lord. That's what they said that phrase meant in Greek. In 1 Corinthians 1 verse 2, it says, to the church which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of the Lord Jesus. Oh, that's good. Yeah, 1 Corinthians 1, 2.
So that phrase, which is used only of Yahweh and in the Greek equivalent, it means call upon the name of the Lord, is applied to Jesus in 1 Corinthians 1, 2. Okay? Okay, that's actually really good because it leads into the next question. Okay.
I'm making notes real quick. Okay, so you know that witnesses present the Trinity as modalism, and it's not a true representation of what most Christians understand to be the Trinity. I've discerned that much, but I don't, my sister and I both have a hard time understanding the role of Jesus in God, and explain Trinity to us, please.
Sure. The best analogy I know of is time. Now, before I give it to you, God says he makes himself known in his creation. So he does that. This is Romans 1.20.
So we can see the fingerprints of God in the creation he's given. So time is past, present, and future. So this one thing called time has three, I'm going to use these words aspects, okay, just for now, has three aspects, the past, the present, and the future. But the past is not the exact same thing as the future, nor are they the exact same thing as the present.
They're different, but they're all by nature time. We would not say there's three times. There's only one thing called time, and it manifests to us in three things, the past, the present, and the future. Now, for us, unfortunately, this is a consecutive kind of a thing, and it shows that, you know, it leans towards modalism.
That's a disadvantage of that analogy. Unless you get into quantum physics, which I've been reading a lot about, and it doesn't seem to be the case in that level, but we'll get into all that. So this is the idea that one thing could have three constituent parts, not that I want you to say part, that's not the best word, but it's like saying that. The Trinity is one God in three distinct simultaneous persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each is by nature God, just as past, present, and future, each is by nature time, but they're separate from each other. They're distinct, yet they are also at the same time, time. And so the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, oh boy, I could get into something here. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three aspects of that. I don't know how much I want to get into this with you, but let me try something, okay? If this makes sense.
We're going to have a break here in a sec, so I may, we'll see. If God is only one person, then how does he manifest personhood? Personhood necessitates the awareness of others, self-awareness, fellowship, intimacy, love, reciprocity with people. As the Jehovah's Witnesses teach that God's only one person, then from eternity before he created, how is it that he exhibited the fullness of personhood? He could not.
There would be no fellowship, there would be no exchange of love, there would be nothing. How is that possible? Yeah, how's that possible? Okay? It doesn't make any sense. But I'll skip ahead. In the Trinity, however, the Father and the Son can love each other, and the mediation of that love is by the Holy Spirit.
And I can get into the technicality of it. And you can have each one of me the mediator between the other two. Because love itself is a concept. Love doesn't have this self-awareness. Love doesn't walk around and make decisions. It's something exchanged. Well, if God, if part of him is love, is love impersonal? It doesn't have self-awareness? Or is it personal? Because it comes from God, the Trinity makes sense of that. It means that it's then personal as one person can mediate and be that love between the other two members.
And it's perfect inside the doctrine of the Trinity. And we have a break, so please hold on. We'll talk about it.
Okay. We have three open lines, folks. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. All right then. Welcome back to the show journey. Are you still there? Yes. Hey, I got a question for you. Where are you in Wyoming? Near Gillette. Okay. I was born in Cheyenne, so I was just curious. Oh, okay.
Yeah, we're in the northeast. Okay. Okay, so did that stuff on the Trinity help you at all? Actually, my sister and I were talking during the break about what a good analogy time was. And we both really seemed to get it.
That was good. Well, during the break, I actually decided to write an article called Why Is God a Trinity? And I got notes about this, and I think I've got enough of it figured out that I can put it down so that hopefully people can read it and figure out why, if God was a single person, it would not make sense. If he's two persons, then there's a problem with the nature of what's impersonal as a fundamental aspect of his nature.
That's a problem. And why the Trinitarian view is the most logical, necessary, and simplistic view, the minimalistic of what God is. And I'll get into something called perichoresis and divine simplicity, but I'll make them all understandable. Okay, then I'll look for that article. Okay. All right. So, what else you got? Okay, hellfire is a big issue for us.
We have a hard time with it. All right. If you were with me and you watched me walk up to some random stranger in a store and I just slapped the person, you might think, what was that for? And the person says, what'd you do that for? The person could either ask me the question or I could take a strike back at me, right? Or I just take off and we get away. But what if I did it to that person who's occupying that office called the presidency?
What if I did that? Well, then I get, it's a federal offense. If I slap just the average Joe, then, you know, nothing really happens. If I slapped the president of the United States, I go to jail, federal offense.
Why does the exact same action get a different result? It's because of who it's against. Well, because of the office of president, you have to respect that. That's right.
It's who it is and who occupies that. Let's move up the chain of authority to God who is infinite by nature. So if we break his law, we have infinitely affected. We would cause an infinite offense in the sense that we've offended the infinite God.
How then are we going to undo that offense? And the way to do it is only through Jesus because Jesus is God in flesh. Second person of the Trinity who has two natures, a human nature and a God nature in the one person. And so because he's infinite in value when he died, it's an infinite sacrifice. And so therefore we just trust in what he did.
So what about those who don't trust in what he's done? It makes logical sense to say that their punishment must be forever because of who they've offended. God is infinite. So forever is infinite, so that's what they get.
If they are to be annihilated, then they're not being punished. And punishment in the Bible is experienced. I've done a lot of research on this. I've done a great deal on it. This is how it is in the Bible.
It's experienced. And people say, well, I don't like the idea of hell. Well, okay, you don't have to, but this is what Jesus taught. We know that Satan and his angels go into hell forever, and that's what it says. You can go to Revelation 14, 11, and 20, 10, and the beast, the fall prophet, were thrown into the lake of fire that burns forever and ever. The smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever. That means they are tormented forever and ever. And there's a verse that's really interesting. It's in Jude 1-7, and it says this in Jude 7.
It just says, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since these in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. Now, I'll say this once because I want to confuse you, but an example in undergoing is a participle, an I-N-G word. It's a present participle in the Greek. When a present participle exists, it takes its tense from the previous verb. The previous verb is in the present tense. So what it's saying is they're presently undergoing punishment of eternal fire. Oh, I didn't understand that.
Okay. So these are the people. See, the thing is, if people are annihilated, and if they've done something bad, and then, let's say, a person deserves ten years of hell fire, let's say, and then he's annihilated, as some people teach, well, then that would mean that the punishment he receives for ten years of fire, whatever it is, would be in a manner consistent with how much sin he committed. Sin is breaking the law of God. Therefore, the punishment is according to the law. So therefore, after ten years of punishment, and he's done with the punishment, why doesn't he go to heaven?
Because he's accomplished what the law requires. Why is he then annihilated, which is an additional judgment. This is why that problem is there. It's a big problem. It's a logic problem on their part.
If, however, someone... Go ahead. No, I was going to say, because witnesses don't believe in hell at all. I know.
They teach it's non-existence. You're simply destroyed. Right, you're simply destroyed. Right. So then what happens is, here's a problem, and I've got another caller I want to get to after this, but here's a problem. Okay.
So just imagine this from left to right on a piece of paper. You have number one, two, three, four, five. Number one is non-existence. Number two is a person exists. Number three is non-existence.
The person dies. Number four is the person's resurrected to be judged, to be annihilated. And number five is his annihilation or non-existence.
Okay. So number five is punishment. But look at number one, which is non-existence. Number one, which is non-existence. Number five, which are non-existence, are exactly identical. Non-existence. Now, then, is number five punishment, but number one is not, if they're exactly identical. Well, that's a good logic question. I don't know.
It is. And so these are just issues that they don't think of and they don't really deal with. And then there's the issue of soul sleep.
There's problems with that as well. And I get into more complex things about the nature of Christ's atoning work, where annihilation is human nature and in Christ and all this stuff. And in fact, I just released an article on it today on this. I analyzed two guys analyzing a debate.
And they're teaching what I believe, if I understand them correctly, a damn little heresy because they're denying the hypostatic union. I'm getting too complicated. But these are some of the things there. Okay? All right.
I'll look for that. Thank you. Okay.
You know, if you were to write these questions down and give me a list, a lot of times what I do when people have questions like this is I actually write articles to answer them. Oh, okay. Is there an email I can send it to? Sure. Info at karm.org.
And you can say, hey, Matt said on the radio you might write articles to answer these. Okay? Info at karm.org? Yep. C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. Have you ever been to that website? No. Well, check it out.
It's had 145 million visitors. Well, I will definitely do that. It might answer a lot more questions. Mm-hmm.
I have a whole section on Christian doctrine and a whole section on Jehovah's Witnesses. Okay? There.
That's the place I need to go. All right. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Well, you know what? The other person just left. So if you want to stay on the air because we've got nobody waiting, I can deal with some more issues. Oh, okay. Yeah. Definitely, if you don't care. Sure. I do care. Let's go.
Okay. In our search, we've come across people of all sorts of faith and different beliefs. And sometimes we don't know what to believe and what not to believe because Witnesses are so good at cherry picking and tying things together that don't go together. But we came across one about you're supposed to break your soul ties with other people that were bad. I don't understand it exactly. That's a lot of crud. Right.
It's New Age movement idiocy moving into the Christian church. Okay. That's what I wanted to know. Sometimes. I don't want any New Age stuff. Yeah. It's New Age. Okay.
Eastern mysticism, New Age idiocy creeping into the church. Your soul ties. Give me a break. All right. What?
Use Velcro or tie strips? Well, I didn't know anything about it. I'm like, I want to find out about this. Yeah. Yeah, that's New Age stuff. Okay.
My question is, do modern day Christians have the gifts of the Spirit, like speaking in tongues, or is that, I don't know. What's the answer? Well, I'm going to give you the two views, and I'll give you the view that I hold to. The two views are, yes, they're continued for today.
The other one is, no, they're not continued for today. Now, there are some views in between those that kind of lean more towards one or the other. So here's the thing. The charismatic, that's the Greek word, charismatic, or charismatic. And what it means is the charismatic gifts or the charismatic movement, the movement that comes from the power of the Spirit. So eternal life, in Romans 623, the free, the wages of sin is death, but the free gift, charisma, that's the word charisma in there, the free gift of God is eternal life. So that's a charismatic gift that's for today, eternal life, because we know we can have eternal life today, 1 John 5.13.
So, well, then they'll say, well, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about speaking in tongues and things like that. And those are called the sign gifts. All right.
So my position is that all the gifts are for today. I believe in all of them in full operation today, and a lot of people don't believe that. And I have good friends who don't believe that. And we don't argue about it in college or heretics. Well, we do. We're laughing. You're a heretic. No, you're a heretic.
And we laugh about it because we're kidding. But so this is what it says in 1 Corinthians 1.7. Talking to the church. So you're not lacking in any gift. And the word is charismatic, all right? That you're not lacking any gift awaiting eagerly the return of Jesus. So I look at that and I go, wait a minute. You're not to lack any gift while you're waiting for the return of Christ.
Now, a lot of people say, no, the charismatic gifts are done because they stopped with the death of the last apostles, which I don't agree with. Now, I could be wrong about this. I'm not saying I have the right position. I'm not saying I have the right position and you need to believe that. I'm saying this is my position.
It's possible I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am. Just as the people who hold the other position don't believe they're wrong. And this is what we call a debatable issue. And we're allowed to have debatable issues. Romans 14 talks about this.
Yes, thank goodness. We can have different views on some things. Yes, unlike the Jehovah's Witnesses. You've got to think blocked up. Right, exactly.
Right. And so my view is that they're still around because I see nothing in scripture that says they've ceased. And when people go to 1 Corinthians 13, 8 through 13, they talk to me about this. I have a whole paper written on it. I can get into it about when the perfect comes, the imperfect passes away, what that is.
We don't have a whole bunch of time, so I'm talking quickly. So what I would say for you is do your own study and just come up with what you decide. And if you call me up in a month and say, look, I've decided the charismatic gifts are not for today. I'd say, okay, as long as you did that from what you see in scripture. And if you say, or you say, I agree with you, Matt, I'd say, good, as long as you've done it according to scripture.
Because this is a debatable issue, and I didn't get to get into it very deeply, though. Okay? All right, thank you so much. Well, you're welcome so much.
And call back again, okay? Okay. All right. You have a great day. You too. God bless. All right, I did want to talk to the other caller about his attraction. Call back tomorrow and let's talk about it. May the Lord bless you, everybody. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-11-27 15:56:18 / 2023-11-27 16:16:29 / 20