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My Hardest Challenge As a Caregiver

Hope for the Caregiver / Peter Rosenberger
The Truth Network Radio
September 14, 2021 3:00 am

My Hardest Challenge As a Caregiver

Hope for the Caregiver / Peter Rosenberger

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September 14, 2021 3:00 am

On the national broadcast recently, we discussed the hymn, ONLY TRUST HIM ...as it relates to us a caregivers. Unpacking this, I discussed my hardest challenge as a caregiver, and why this song connects to me. 

Hope for the Caregiver is the family caregiver outreach of Standing With Hope. Please consider  helping us expand this program by visiting www.standingwithope.com/giving  

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Is the show for you as a family caregiver.

This is the nation's number one program for those who are caring for impaired love one somebody who is dealing with aging issues disease affliction addiction. Whatever the impairment, there's always caregiver it were glad to have you with this.

888-589-8840 888-589-8840 Proverbs 35 through six trust of the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your path.

You know that is in Scripture because we lean on our own understanding. So we'll talk about that today I will take your calls will take it. It got specifically written deal with, but as always, I want to extend to you the freedom that if you get something that is pressing on your heart will bring our conversation to a halt, and deal with whatever you're dealing with as a family caregiver. If you're not a caregiver. That's okay, you go to get something out of the show but the show was specifically designed for the family caregiver. We want to give that vocabulary so caregivers can understand what help.

Looks like to them and hopefully infuse them with the courage to be able to ask for that help and receive that help and if you're not a caregiver will give you the vocabulary of what it looks like to help a caregiver and an how how we can communicate with those who are caring for loved ones, sometimes in the absence of knowing what to say when we will be just don't have the words will often say something glib or saving it all people who are suffering, and I think that there's a better way for us to be able to encourage people strengthen people minister to people and care for them. If you want to be a part of the show. By the way, it's 888-589-8840 888-589-8840 and I'm going to go to the caregiver keyboard and start off with her are opening him this morning that I wanted to talk about.

Of course, this is almost too easy, but I'm just complete the course. It was that you may know, and if you do feel free to give us a call 888-589-8840 you know that him and I love the one you meant by Methodists and so we are talk about that and what that message means today and if you want to be a part of this 888-589-8848 885-8988, were glad to have you with us on this basement account of a interesting couple weeks.

Leslie course was Labor Day, but two weeks ago Sunday night my wife had a an event she was coming into the house and shut her prosthetic foot caught a mat she wouldn't ask her to school in the doorway that she doesn't normally go in and but she was a part right there but would it took her purse into the house and turned my back around for just a moment and she had caught that Matt which I am now taking to the dump and disposing of them sitting in into outer darkness. She didn't know it in her prosthetic left foot.

The toe was underneath that she didn't know it and she was moving her right foot and it was pinned and she put her right foot down and evidently pinned under the mat and she twisted and lost her balance and fell as her body twisted her prosthetic leg did not and she broke her femur pretty pretty nasty breaker spiral break gutter and it was just it was just one of those things.

It was a very traumatic event and got the paramedics here.

We live way up in the mountains so was a little bit about a grant for her to have to hang tough into the got here and they took down their actuator and recognize that it's you know it was it was significant in this little community hospital so they airlifted her to Billings, Montana where she can. She still there and she was able to get surgery to fix this thing and it was one of those moments where I or the him today really comes in the play and and you you look at this you think how much horses will go through in her life and she went into surgery and I watch them Wheeler down and it was that I could First surgery you know and that's just too much is just too much in and she did well. The surgery went well. They done a good job at it caring for her and giving all the complications and this is the first time she was with this team.

Most of her surgeries affect all of her surgeries been in Nashville would live there and and this the first time with this new group of individuals. They did a great job caring for her. Postoperatively is always a challenge. They've done a great job so it's it's one of those things where you look at this and think, okay, I've done this before and how much should I push on this to try to bring everybody up to speed as a caregiver, you know, I want to make sure they have all the patient's history, but I don't want to be. I've done this before and I freely admit it and I'm not happy about it but I I cringe at things where I have unduly influence people who are providing care to Gracie because you have such longevity with her and I know stuff that I can communicate pretty well. I've been called Dr. Rosenberger many times a Telamon board certified in cranial proctology and they don't quite pay attention to that. But that's okay. It's funny to me and I I am. You know, so I tried to be very careful to not overstep, and to let it play out how it needs to, but not let her just be kind of struggling along and make sure they had all the information and so it's been a journey this week. This is her first major surgery sometime so it's been a little bit of a journey and for both of us in she's done well in the and there've been a lot of folks are praying at the AFR family and around the country and I do appreciate that very much.

Spirits are pretty good.

It it it was traumatic, and it certainly is inconvenient for her. That's the bad news if there's any good news to this is that it's not life altering for her in the sense that she will recover and she will be able to resume her normal life.

Once this heels and then we look forward to hopefully getting arrested up to be able to go to Denver for this big back surgeries. That's in the not-too-distant future.

So it's that's good that is good be like to this is what's been going on with us and it's been. Needless to say, challenging. But this hymn comes in the play and the text of this and so I thought would start off with this one today is to know to come to give ourselves that orientations caregivers okay what how we navigate through these things huddling and we walk through this and I think this hymn speaks of to us today that very topic over the caregiver over the caregiver.com 888-589-8840 will be right back.

Back to hopefully caregiver here in America. In February of this. This is the show for you as a family caregiver and we are glad that you with this. 888-589-8840 know are him for today. If you know the just play the course. This is if you know that if you know that him and I just wanted to stay on the closing of the verses are great give you the first verse, every soul by sin oppressed, there's mercy with the Lord and he will surely give you rest. By trusting in his word, but is the course that I want you to hang onto to through today of of when we get in the situations where we we really don't know which way to go. I will circle back to what I've been dealing with this last two weeks with this thing with Gracie and her printer fallen in this broken leg of first and you know when the double amputee breaks a leg and I was you is always a lot easier for her if she breaks the lower part of her leg as opposed to the part where she still has bone. The prostheses are easy to put back together when you use hammering pair of pliers, but when you have a big break like she's had it it becomes very challenging for her on a lot of levels mean you know she can't just you can just come to use their crutches and and come to get back on with your life or the cast and that kind of thing you know she has two prosthetic legs.

So it's a little bit more challenging to transfer and everything else is involved. So, but as of of walk to this and will circle back to what we talked of the opening block. A reporter once asked me it was they they interviewed me for the show and they said, what is the hardest thing you face to secure hardest thing you've ever faced the caregiver. Now you think about those you know the show would know me you know a great story me this is been going on now for long long time. AMI Reagan was president when I started taking care of her EW look at 81 surgeries. You look it well over hundred doctors in 13 or 14 hospitals millions upon millions of dollars in different insurance companies like seven of it in a woman who lives with intractable pain on many days she's always living with pain, but sometimes you get the point. She can get out of it. She can get some relief to be, you know it's it's very very difficult when you have a chronic pain person in your life like that it if you don't know what to do. Sometimes, so they asked me what is the hardest thing for you as a caregiver and I responded instantaneously because it is always in my mind is ever present in my mind of what is mine and what is not mine to carry you know and NIII blur that line way too many times and I think that I look at people out there who do radio programs and TV programs for various topics and so forth. And you know it they got money issues that they deal with her or whatever they do with it's like they've they've that that chapter their life or it was difficult for them is over.

They become very successful. Now they want to teach everybody else how to do it well. This chapter for me has a caregivers not over this.

Is this 35 year journey of mine continues and and so I'm I'm in the throes of it just like everyone here listening this program and I struggle with the same things that everybody else struggles with their consistent with every caregiver and one of those things that I struggle with mightily and I think this of from one of talked to a lot of my fellow caregivers feel the same way is that we we don't know where to land what is what is mine. How much should I push how much should I lay back where where where solid groundedness and and I found myself again in the same position as I looked at you know another over several others in a long line of mass medical providers stating there before we go into surgery and in the ER and everything else you know and and sometimes and not just the mask is a Cova just because this will route we are and I'm thinking okay what is too much. What is not enough. What is when my hovering and becoming a pain in the rear window. My not pushing enough you know and and and all the kind of things that go into being a caregiver in and with Gracie.

You know when am I doing too much RAM not there enough for him there too much or they're just all that confusion that goes on with you and it very very difficult to know where solid ground is, I think this is where you go back to Scripture. This will start off with Proverbs 35 through six trust of the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding and I think too many times as a caregiver. I've leaned on my own understanding, and it's got me into a lot of cringe worthy and very very regretful situations because it made sense to me at the time and sometimes I have to lay back and let the process play out and trust that God is working through these medical providers and and nurses and everyone else involved that they can see this with fresh eyes that may be in ways that I don't there's a new thing now that goes on in the way healthcare is managed a lot of bigger hospitals in its care by committee are: and you got care teams coming in.

The sounds really great into you try to figure out who's in charge and you want to have that dialogue with whoever's in charge of its partner. A lot of things go on in treating our loved ones that can be very unsettling to assist caregivers and when we get unsettled. I don't about you.

Let me just say what I get unsettled I try to lock it down and tried to get out in front of this thing and make sure everybody is stepping up to their mark.

That's exhausting mightily your truck that you try to manage a whole lot of people when it's not even your job to do it and you're not getting paid to do it.

It's exhausting. So I I struggled for these last couple weeks with this spirit it brings back a lot of a lot of memories of the night and sit in the hospital room in the sights and smells and you know everything else. And when you walk into a hospital just is there so many of these things I have in my my history with Gracie, and I thought am I going to just be still and know that he is gone. My going to do is this hymn says that we play today which is given with the title am I going to trust of the Lord with all my heart and lean not them on own understanding and if so what does that look like one of things that look like was when I was talking to the surgeon and anesthesiologist particular anesthesiologist preop. I did not use the word need or should or anything of that that nature.

It's very hello, I have a lot of information about gray should be very helpful. These doctors but what I used very carefully was my own vocabulary of speaking in first person in OC. In my experience with her. This is what I witnessed this might be helpful to you as you make determinations in my experience when I was with her. This is what happened and I saw this and this is something that might be helpful to you as you whatever and then I was very very guarded and that at night. I don't like playing verbal gymnastics.

But I've noticed it is the character I can come on extremely strong. If I am doing this out of a sense of panic or whatever fear it will go back to whatever caregiver deals with fear, obligation, guilt and when I don't share information that is helpful in a way that they can digest and then turn it into whatever decisions I need to do that sometimes bad things really happen with Gracie. I know I'm a been there to clean it up.

But when I do share things I want to be sure to share the way that is not overpowering that they just dismiss me or that I get up in their business and it's a very fine line to walk your struggled with that in caring for your love one where you how much is too much this year and how do you share this and and so I just I don't know I'm just rambling about that a little bit, but it it's been a illuminating week for me to once again find myself in this position I was hoping that Gracie would you not have any more events like this but such is the case and and so I go back to what this hymn says and abducted, given away, you call me and tell me that's the that's the message for us is caregivers is he sovereign or not, is he Lord or not.

Does my wife have a Savior or not MI that Savior.

Not so once you once you understand where the core question is then you don't get pulled into the weeds of the craziness of you know WHAT I going to hear what what about this one about this what about this. The core question is Gracie has a Savior I'm not that Savior. I have responsibilities in this I have on the repository of her medical chart on the sole repository of when she's not able to communicate even if she was able to communicate at times or things that she doesn't remember and so that's that's been my journey this this last couple weeks and will take you causally come back.

88 858-9884 885-8980 care and eight 589-8840 888-589-8840 will go to the phone was about like somebody to get the song probably before other people waiting to tell me what the psalmist that's okay. Tell me where the song is meaningful to you. Tell me what this means to you and will talk about that because the point is not just guessing this all the point is tough but wise and important to us, but first let's go to one that in Texas.

Good morning Lynette how are you feeling are you you know for a man of my limited abilities and age. I think I'm doing okay.

I think 730 mercy you're playing. I can't think of the word.

I think I'll only chat on the last goes, he will save you now only trusted it's very simple.

Very rarely did well beautiful well I am glad to hear that because the songs mean something to us and I think that when we get into situations where it is so nuts and I'm sitting there in this. In my case two weeks ago among the ground holding my wife and she is just in agony just screaming in pain and you know you can't think of the last sermon you necessarily hurt sometimes all you can think of is these hymns only trust only trust and that's it.

There's too much information hitting your brain and so you have to anchor yourself in some kind of reality in these hymns just have this way of doing so.

That's why I do this for you and my fellow caregiver to tell me, tell me who you cared for, or caring for my mom. I like telling your on the phone a lot hundred years old will she has made it.

She has made caregiver so now that he can care for now.

There are no my daughter that would come never ever felt like you say come to mind when I thought she did tell you so that was my with my uncle recently passed when the mother's brother and mom would sit over video and he didn't know most of what was going on, but the off-camera somebody was playing on the guitar, amazing Grace, and he was singing along with and it is truly astonishing the power of these mutant of this music and in the simple things that that they get into our soul in even disease can't get a race care in your heart.

Here, certainly not very beautiful. Start with the fact that the court called no one ever cared for me, not hello though nobody ever cared for me. Eli Jesus, I love you. We will that may be. Indeed, what it is cheating and look at it. I'm looking at the hymnal versus the glasses because I think I missed it missed court on this, but no, that's a beautiful song.

Lynette and I thank you for reminding us of that because I think that that is the caregiver's home. No one ever cared for me like Jesus. And when we sing this hymn, only trust him only trust him only trust him now. He will save you, he will save you, he will save you now when I wrote my book, hopefully caregiver of the dedication at the front to solus Christus so stress is one of the five pillars of the Reformation. One of the solos and solos and this is to solus Christus to G Christ alone. The ultimate caregiver of a wounded bride and so I look at the great comforter that knowing that as I take care of my bride with moons.

He takes care of his bride.

And that's us his wounded bride and so these are things that are very meaningful to me as as I walk through this with Gracie to hang onto it and I thank you for reminding me of that great him this morning Lynette I do appreciate that very much and thanks for calling care mother.

I will make my heart about the size of a nine which all cared for me. I'll turn my dad and I got right where I needed to be with people that take care of me, little sick. Thank God he maybe come up with anything else.

My mom was that I wouldn't bring her back. She didn't have to go to a nursing my picture now way, take care of their home was important that I praise God for that and I thank you for your thank you very very much what it is this very meaningful call and now when I played this song that I will think of you and your family with this because this is a beautiful song in thank you for attaching your name to that memory for me. Every time a place of thank you for that. I really do appreciate that and I want I want to go to and in Mississippi-one and a lot better Love that He probably know a year and 1/2 ago.

Maybe I was going. A lot a great factor live in my heart and in going GL all that sort of thing and you really help me when I called in that day they moved here that refresh me on what going on with your husband well he had parking light around the mansion and he was at home with with may enough for several years but then it just kind progressed and I started out as the transparent just having trouble dealing handling ham and you know I was snappy and just a feeling not very patient and my daughters would say that in it would heart the element and would heart him and I emailed you later about it. I do remember it is a member in the you know and I think in first off, I understand that you are being transparent with that in your doing the but but but what your sharing. This is common to all of us as caregivers.

This is this is not something that is that is that you are the sole guilty party of doing the dead end and you are a human being and you will make mistakes on this and you did and any the question is can we make amends for them.

Can we get back into this. Can we can we you change through this process and everything in Scripture tells me that we can and we are and we do and in and so the bad news is were going to mess this up. The good news is he doesn't and try and that that is the good news. And so that's what we go always go back and that's why spend so much time on this with on this program is to help folks understand where the real battles fought the real battle is not fought in taking care of somebody with dementia or any other affliction. The real battle was fought with ourselves because like you said the opening blocks.

You know I struggle with knowing where my place was with these docs and everything else in the sling with Gracie and and all these things and and the battle was not of how to call 911 and how to get it there and in how to give medical information on the come stuff that's not hard for me but was very hard is knowing my place in this and and how to hang onto Christ in this when you when you got a love one that is just screaming in pain. How do you how do you stay focused and in your husband was going through all the things he's going through it's it's hard you you you don't know or solid ground is her and did you ever feel that way that you just you just floundering and drowning and wound up going into leaving my girls arrange that and I felt guilty about that. You know you you know we take your valve for better for worse space sickness and have them here I am in no about four like I was deserting him even though I went over there several times awaken and took care of all the things they needed you still struggle with guilt. Guilt is is one of the biggest issues that we as caregivers deal with it is not guilt over great since they get great press. You know it's guilt over my going to the nursing home enough in my guilt over did. I should have put them there in the first place. Those kinds of things. If you don't mind Grace.

I like you hold onto the break. I like to continue this conversation just a little bit longer. We got grace and I'd like to just hang on with me if you don't mind that be okay with. Thank you. We can go to break will be right back. This is hopefully caregiver this is Peter Rosenberger. This is the show for you as a family cared only trust I dispute. Rosenberger never helped somebody walk for the first time I've had that privilege many times through our organization. Standing with hope when my wife Gracie gave up both of her legs follow this horrible Rick that she had as a teenager and she try to save them for years and if it just wouldn't work out. And finally she relinquished them and thought wow this is that I'm not happy legs anymore. What can God do with that and then she had this vision for using prosthetic limbs as a means of sharing the gospel to put legs on her fellow amputees and that's what we been doing now since 2005 was standing with hope. We work in the West African country of Ghana and you can be a part of that through supplies through supporting team members through supporting the work that were doing over there, you can designate a limb. There's all kinds of ways that you can be a part of giving the gift that keeps on walking and standing with hope.com would you take a moment ago understanding with hope.com and see how you can give they go walking and leaping and praising God. You could be a part of that@standingwithhope.com.

Hopefully caregiver this Peter Rosenberg. This is the show for you. You as a family cared plaintiff he has for you were talking with, and in Mississippi about the guilt she struggled with taking care of her husband with Parkinson's and later with dementia and you know this for the reasons I put this hymn into play today of only trust him and the Proverbs 3526 trust of the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your path. Your paths and then listen this verse for Jesus shed his precious blood rich blessings to bestow funds now into the crimson flood that washes white as snow only trust only trust only trust him now. He will save you will save you, he will save you now and in the third verse yes Jesus is the truth.

The way that leads you into rest believe in him without delay and you are fully blessed only trust only trust only trust him now. He will save you, he will save you, he will save you now this is a powerful song for us is for fellow caregivers to hang onto this text wouldn't get snarly when you are like and was saying that she was young she felt guilty for even just saying it of her journey but were all there were all there.

The difference between Anna and the rest of us is that ants got the courage to come forth and say hey this is who I am. This is what I struggle with this is you know I don't like what I saw it myself but it is what it is that a fair representation in no I thought I lost you there for second. Oh, I'm sorry out. Can you hear me I can now there you go, sir, but that now that I got family gave me fleet relay, 3 o'clock in the morning, waking up and just wiling to make people way out in the street could have hired me in my just crying out to God in ages hailed my wounded broken spirit and and and I just cried out to name but like the words and date contrition here.

My wounded broken spirit and then hit the spring of my comfort and he was more than life to me and hello on earth. I have beside day in Hammond that day and he just just finally just I finally just came to terms with it and just. We had a God experienced the dog inside, they just deliver me because I was in such a deep dark depression. I was almost I wouldn't even find the word that they are floored and my girls were worried about me and it just finally found the I had a breakthrough with the Lord in ages pages provide that weight for weight fleet relay. He forgot it. It's hard. It is hard for people who haven't done this for any length of time to understand that level of despair that you got to it. It's hard. It is very difficult for some people do this for six months to year so they called into the show that all this just such a blessed building this about that in this great I'm so grateful that they're having that experience this okay well for those of us who deal with this for a lengthy period of time when it just as relentless struggle that despair is is lurking around almost every corner and if we don't fortify ourselves to deal with will go under.

Doesn't matter how much we know about medicine or this or that or whatever will go under and I've been there with you. I get it, and it is painful, it is real and in and there's no way on this show that I will ever minimize the heartache that goes on within a caregivers heart. That's the whole purpose is to address that, so that you and me and others who are in those places can see a path out of that to solid ground and it starts with very simple things of of only trust only trust but what does that look like and what is that look like when when you have to take your husband to a nursing home. What is that look like when you're holding your wife screaming in pain number broken on top of everything else and and that's what I wanted to flesh it out a little bit to realize okay this this is very painful. This is very broken. This is very very difficult. But there's up there was a lion they you in this. This new series out there was talk about the chosen and if you want if you watched any of that.

I want to help her say that Grace and I just we just went through every episode. I really liked the paper and bear it out like there you know is not. It is a book of people differently but you say that maybe that is real paintball yeah they got it right on this one and there's a scene where the gap lien Jesus who does such a great job and he looks at the guy that had broken his leg will give away the story with it but it's it's a very powerful scene in an Jesus communicates that he represents a kingdom where all of this is going. There's no more sorrowing and broken things, and in sickness and affliction and all this good stuff he said, but in this kingdom where we are here bone still break heart still break and and and we are ministering to each other in this broken this, knowing that he is redeeming. This, but but he starts with the redemptions of our's redemption of our soul and as he is redeeming all these other things we trust him as your heart was was ushered into the healing through Christ. He gave you the strength to trust him with your husband, who was in a nursing home as God has his work, his redemption in my my soul. It gives me the wherewithal to trust them as I watched Gracie struggle with all these things and I think that's the point we have as believers.

And that's the point of the show is just listless go with the core issue which is our broken spirits and then work outward from that to be able to stake home and to minister appropriately in these other things but we can't do it if were in force differently if it says it's an improper 3526 if were leaning on our own understanding. We can't do this. I know you have give clear that a lot. I know I was still him and that's it. But that's what we do in is that we we we we reinforce this with each other. You call me and reinforce this I I sit there with you and we got a couple coffee this morning and we reinforce this so that when we are faced with these things in there. I don't have a thousand thousands of people listen.

The show right now but but I know that those who are listening are united to the fact that that there have them look at painful things so you're reinforcing to these thousands upon thousands of people that here's the path to safety. And that's a great gift that you're giving to folks and today it really is this a tremendous testimony in the Scripture says in Revelation they overcame by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony. Your experience, this is your experience. If you will, if it will which one of us would get out and so I want to know how much of an encouragement you been to to all of us today and I and I know that you're going to still go back and second-guess yourself with this is just human nature were going to do, but in those moments and yeah I should what it could, but it in those moments I'm asking that you remember this him today only trust only trust now and I and I was a been reading some stuff with CS Lewis lately of trying to for little bit and but one of the things that he posits in this and I believe this is that redemption works backwards that God's went the way he does it and even the things that were so horrific that that that set us on certain paths. He readings all of this and that's that's the kind of the point of that passage of Scripture says he'll wipe away all her tears and you will Joseph looked at his brothers. He said what you meant for evil God bit for good. And so when we look at these things that are painful in our life and they are they are really painful that he in time will show us that he's redeeming even this and and will see his hand of mercy, will will see this in ways that we would see it any other way doesn't mean we like it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt but it does mean that that we are were anchored in the eternal because of our relationship with Christ so that we live in the moment but were we have the perspective of eternity and that gives meaning to the moment we live in this moment, but we have the perspective of eternity which gives meaning to the moment knowing that he who began a good work and this is faithful to complete it to the day of Christ Jesus and we got a go up against the clock.

I just want you to know what a blessing you been to me personally today and I think really and you call Wait another year to have to call okay thank you Melody W want and said thank you very much for sharing your heart with us today. We got to go.

There's more hope for the caregiver.com. By the way, if you go out there to hear special song today that I wrote right after 9/11 the Gracie singing I think you removed but we will stand and set their site hope for the caregiver.com see that some of you know the remarkable story of Peter's wife Gracie and recently Peter talk to Gracie about all the wonderful things that emerge from her difficult journey. Take a listen Gracie when you envision doing a prosthetic limb outreach. Did you ever think the inmates would help you do that, not in a million years. When you go to the facility run by core civic and you see the faces of these inmates that are working on prosthetic limbs that you helped collect from all of the country that you put out the plea for and their disassembly sell these legs like what you have your own prosody and an orange everything when you see all this makes me cry because I see this on their faces and I know what it is like someplace where you can't get out without somebody else allowing you to get out mean the hospital. These men are so glad to be doing is one thing said something good with my did you know before you became in a PT that parts of prosthetic limbs could be recycled and had no idea Peg leg. I thought it wouldn't legs. I never thought of titanium and carbon legs and flexibly see legs and all that. I never thought about. As you watch these inmates participate in something like this, knowing that there there helping other people all providing the means for the supplies to get over there. What is it do you just on the heart level. I wish I could explain to the world. What I see in here and I wish that I can be able to come and say the this guy right here in East Africa with that. I never not feel that way out every time you know you always make me have to leave. I don't want to leave. II feel like I'm at home with them and I feel like that we have a common bond that would never expect that only God could put together. Now that you've had experience with it what you think of faith based programs.

The core civic offers. I think there is absolutely awesome and I think every prisoner out there for half-day things program because he return right at the men that are involved in this particular faith-based program and other ones like it and I know about this one car is an amazingly low rate compared and I think that that is me just has something to do with God help people want to donate use prosthetic limbs, whether from a loved one who passed away or you know somebody well-groomed you donated some of your own for the data out of the please go to staining with.com/recycle gain. We

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