"What Do You Even Say?"

Speaking of hangry, we've got something going on with the Truth Network that's going to help the world not be so hangry. Yeah, he's talking about just needing God's Word. He said, please help the Truth Network send Bibles to Africa.

And we know that they need God's Word. We have until the end of the month, just $5 gets a Bible in the hands of a poor, impoverished believer all over the African continent with the help of the Bible League. Just $5.

Just think about that, Robbie. Just $5. So please give. If you can give more than $5, man, we'd love for you to do it. And the number to call is 1-800-YES-WORD. 1-800-YES-WORD. Welcome to Hope for the Caregiver here on American Family Radio.

This is Peter Roseburger. This is the nation's number one show for you as a family caregiver. How are you doing? How are you holding up? What's going on with you? More than 65 million Americans are currently serving as a family caregiver.

Maybe you're one of them. Back and forth to the doctor's office, back and forth to rehab centers, back and forth to the pharmacy, up late at night doing laundry and then having long conversations with the ceiling fan. There's all kinds of different challenges that we as caregivers deal with. Our health, our well-being, our understanding, our peace of mind and solid footing is what this show is all about.

And we're glad to have you with us. There's more at Hope for the Caregiver dot com. I like to branch off into various topics in different subject matters that I think will connect dots for us as caregivers. And I've been lately looking at Shiva, which is the week-long mourning period in Judaism, a period that lasts seven days following the burial. Now, why is that important? Well, that's why I asked longtime friend Eric Walker, Rabbi Eric Walker. He's a Messianic rabbi. I've been a regular participant on his show for four years.

At the end of every month, we did a whole thing for caregivers. It's called Igniting a Nation. He's the leader of that organization. He's an amazing teacher of scripture and understanding God's provision in these things in a way maybe that you and I haven't even thought of before. And so I wanted to invite him on to talk about this and introduce him to you all. And hopefully this will turn into be a series of conversations we have, if time permits, with him. So, Eric, welcome to the show. We're glad to have you with us.

We are always honored to be with you, as you and I have spent four and a quarter years together on television and done some radio together. It's such a large issue affecting so many people that it probably is the single largest issue facing the largest number of Americans on a day to day basis. And the coverage that it gets, the conversations that are had regarding it seems to be almost a taboo. It almost seems to be like, you know, I have pity and I feel sorry for the people that are going through this. And but for the grace of God, there go I. And there's really not a lot of words of encouragement. People are ill-equipped to know what to say, to do, to how to lend a hand. Corporately, I don't think that we've developed the kind of programs within denominational Christianity to assist and come alongside the caregiver in ways that we've done in many other areas. And you and I having this conversation brings biblical focus to the problem and to resolve and help bring understanding and compassion to those who are affected by caregiving and those who are observers, those who knows somebody who's a caregiver, and hopefully the awareness is raised where they will become more sensitive, more helpful and understand really the plight of the caregiver in terms that will educate and illuminate a topic that affects 65 million Americans.

I've come to understand we as caregivers may have unique circumstances or tasks involved in our challenges with our loved one who was dealing with impairments. But on a heart level, on a soul level, on a core level, everything we deal with is common to the human condition. You know, it's fear, it's obligation, it's guilt, it's despair, it's rage, it's resentment. Those are all common to the human condition. We may live with it on a nuclear level, if you will, where it's sometimes relentless.

It just doesn't go away. But the good news is, is that all of those things are covered clearly and in-depth in scripture. And by those things, I mean those things that are common to us. Now, as caregivers, we have to learn specific tasks. But once we learn them, we got them. We don't have to keep repeating the learning process. We understand it.

We move on. For example, giving an injection. I didn't learn how to give injections in music school.

My hands are pretty steady as a pianist, but holding a hypodermic needle is a much different thing. So as you could imagine, I was pretty nervous the first time I had to do this for Gracie. But I've done this now for many times over many years. So I'm not that nervous about it anymore. I got it.

All right. But the stuff that we deal with on a soul level, on a heart level, we keep revisiting those things. And that's what brings me to my conversation here today with you. The issue I'd like to take on with you today, Eric, is grief and mourning. And I am convinced that as caregivers, that's a part of our journey is learning how to grieve in a healthier manner and to grieve with others in a healthier manner, to receive others in our grief in a healthier manner.

So I want you to take some time to talk about that. Let's go deep into grieving and mourning from a biblical viewpoint. Jesus himself was a man acquainted with sorrow and grief, scripture says. But as many people do, they often launch into the book of Job when it comes to this sort of thing.

So I want you to take us there and unpack some of this for us. As we examine the book of Job, one of the things we see is when his friends spoke, it wasn't wise counsel. It wasn't in line with the will of God.

As a matter of fact, it was really if I had friends like that, I wouldn't want them. But when they finally perceived the depth of his grief, they then displayed a godly representation of being present and not speaking and in that presence and not resting on their own words. It takes me to Isaiah, the first five chapters of Isaiah. Isaiah is a phenomenal preacher, but he's not a prophet. When it comes to Isaiah 6 and he comes into the presence of God, he realizes that he's been doing things in his own strength. And he is so moved by this that he is taken to his face in front of the Lord and cries out that, whoa, I'm a man. I'm done.

I'm a man of unclean lips. And God takes the coals and burns his lips and then asks them the question, now who should I send? And now that he's been refined by the refiner's fire, he's now able to be a messenger of God, not just a good preacher. As these friends gathered with Job, not in their advice and their opinions, but just their presence, and the seven-day period became a period of silence and they sat there only to offer their support and had no words. If Job wanted to speak, he could initiate a conversation. But just the fact that they were present with him established a pattern that says that those who are mourning, how they process grief, has to be on an individual level. And there is no guidance. There's no words. I can't bring back your loved one.

No matter what I say to you, it is not going to be the right thing. I may satisfy myself in having an eloquent soliloquy to tell you to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, or they finally receive their healing. And none of that brings comfort to the grieving.

By the way, that seven days still continues today, from what I understand. It's called Sittingshiva. And Sittingshiva is a part of this mourning process. And the process begins even with upon the death in Judaism, we bury within three days. We don't have these lengthy embalming.

And then 10 days later, seven days later, you're in the ground as quickly as you can possibly be. And it is done in a simple pine box. It's not ornate.

It is into the ground. As tradition says, for us to do is to traditionally not embalm because Leviticus 1711 says for the life of the thing is in the blood. And so if you take the lifeblood out of the body, then when you go to resurrect the body, there's no lifeblood in it. So are you resurrecting formaldehyde?

No. What happens is the body goes into complete decay. We know that the blood of Abel cried out from the ground. So there's life in the blood. And so this has become incorporated as part of the Jewish tradition that traditionally we do not embalm. Unless there is a legal requirement in the state that requires embalming, we don't embalm.

That was an Egyptian. So the reason why Joseph was embalmed was because he wanted to be preserved to be able to have his bones carried into the Promised Land. But when we look at this seven-day period, what happens is that you have a funeral service. Like any funeral service, I preach my father's funeral service.

It was a gathering and then there's a professional processional to the graveside. We bury always facing east. The head is always facing east towards Jerusalem or whatever part of the world you're in, whatever direction Jerusalem is because of Ezekiel 43.

The Lord will return when he breaks through the eastern skies. So the body is to be raised up. The eyes are constantly looking to the skies even in death for the resurrection of the dead. So even wherever the headstone is placed, it doesn't matter.

The head is always positioned to be facing towards Jerusalem looking for the Messiah. As part of the tradition at the graveside, as you begin to exit, there's a table with a pitcher of water. And you take the pitcher, it's a two-handled pitcher. So my right hand rinses my left hand, my left hand rinses my right hand, so I'm not cross-contaminating. And I wash death off my hands. I don't take it from the cemetery back into the home. When I come to the home of the bereaved, I find another pitcher there to remove any remains, a two-handled pitcher that I use to wash my hands so that I don't bring death into the home. For the ultra-religious, they cover all mirrors and pictures so there is no reflection of what you have lost. Then there's a period in which the bereaved is set by a family member in a central location, maybe their favorite chair or the couch in the living room where people can come and pay their respects. And the way they pay their respects is they come, they stand there, they take the hand of the one who's bereaved and they say nothing. We're talking with Messianic Rabbi Eric Walker.

We're talking about grieving and mourning. This is Hope for the Caregiver. This is Peter Rosenberger. Don't go away.

We'll be right back. Welcome back to Hope for the Caregiver. This is Peter Rosenberger. We're talking with Messianic Rabbi Eric Walker. And we're talking about the concept of shiva, which is the mourning period, the sitting shiva. You've heard that in Judaism.

Does that same concept of being with people in their grief apply to us as family caregivers? Before we went to the break, we talked about just the importance of just being with someone, not saying something, not initiating something, just being quiet and being still. Eric, talk a little bit more about that. If we look at the Exodus and we see what happened with the pillar of cloud that went before the Israelites, taking them and lighting the way to the Red Sea. When the pillar of cloud moved from the front to the back and illuminated the Israelites from the front and kept the Egyptians in darkness, the people began to grumble and complain. And Moses looked at them and said, stand still and be quiet.

Stand still and be quiet. Now we know the passage, be still and know that I am God. The only time we can have full confidence in God is when we're still enough to be able to receive an outpouring of his grace, his mercy and his love. When a human being breaks that silence and considered this bereaved under a shroud of the Holy Spirit, enveloped by the Holy Spirit.

If I break that, if I intrude upon that, then I'm speaking out of turn. God is the protector. God is the covering.

He is what we call the kapur, the covering. And as the covering out of respect for the presence of God who is ministering to the bereaved, who am I to speak and interrupt what God is trying to do? Now, I may be a very close friend to that person, and I may be able to regale them with great stories of great comfort and humor.

But this is not the time for it. If they want to speak, they speak. Our presence is made known. The most comforting thing you can do is take a person's hand in your hand, put your hand over their hand and cover it to just say, I am with you. Pay your respects and you move on. This goes on for a week, seven days of people receiving. The numbers, of course, on the day of the funeral are the greatest, but the family tends to the bereaved.

They prepare meals, they bring food and they receive people. The numbers begin to dwindle as we go through that seven day morning period. What's happening in the mind of the bereaved?

People leave that evening and they're left alone. Maybe they have a son or a daughter that chooses to stay with them, but oftentimes it's not. They're trying on life without this loved one. And this is a troubling time. This is a time where the mind goes to that place of despair. So the next day you need that reassurance that you're not alone. And so for seven days, that reassurance is given to that person after a week. You feel like you're not alone. You've had plenty of people who have come and shown you love and shown you respect. And maybe then you want to talk a little bit. Maybe then you want to start making plans.

Well, what are we going to do with dad's clothes or with my wife's clothing and how are we going to divide this up? Maybe that conversation starts with the seven days is kind of a window. It's an island in time. It's very much like the Sabbath. You know, when God in the creation, the 14 verses of creation, on each of the first six days, he said it was evening and then it was morning. And it was the first day and the second day and the third day. But when it came to the seventh day, he didn't put a time frame on it. It just says on the seventh day, he ceased from work and rested. Doesn't say that it was evening. It was morning on the seventh day.

It was to be an island in time. And so imagine being in this island of time for seven days, the time of creation, the time of completion. Seven is the number of completion. So at the end of the seven days, you have rested in the comfort of the Lord. Psalm 91, who dwells, this is that dwelling.

They have the presence of the Lord right there. And family and friends have come to pay the respects. It begins to dwindle down to very close family and very close friends.

And finally, after that seven days is over, now life begins to return. But yet we take an entire year. And where in Christianity, you might bury somebody and have a headstone waiting for them that you ordered at the time. And it's now prepared and you place them into a grave that has a headstone. In Judaism, we don't do that. We place the headstone one year on the anniversary of their death. And there are no flowers at a Jewish funeral.

Why? Because the grass withers and the flowers fade. But the word of the Lord endures forever. And so we don't have a dying presence of flowers which will wilt and die. And when we visit the grave, we do not leave flowers at the grave because that's not a lasting memorial. What do we do? We place a stone on the headstone. We look around the grave area.

We find a rock. And we place it there. And the wind doesn't blow it off. The rain doesn't blow it off. And it's a sign that this person mattered.

And it's a memorial. We're talking with Messianic Rabbi Eric Walker. We're discussing the concept of grief and of mourning from a biblical perspective. How do the principles that are centuries and millennia old that were used in Judaism, way back before the time of Christ, Christ himself would have been familiar with these things. How do those things apply to us today? How can we incorporate those things into our journey as family caregivers?

Is there a correlation? Is there a tie-in to these things into our life today? We're going to talk more about that with Rabbi Eric Walker of Igniting a Nation. Go visit his website at ignitinganation.com to learn more about him and the unique ministry that he has, that is, touching people literally around the world. This is Peter Rosenberger. This is Hope for the Caregiver.

We'll be right with him. Through it all, through it all, I've learned to trust in Jesus. I've learned to trust in God. Welcome back to Hope for the Caregiver. This is Peter Rosenberger. This is the show for you as a family caregiver.

That is my wife Gracie with Joni Eareckson-Tada off of Gracie's CD, Resilient. And if you like what you're hearing on the show today, go out and be a part of what we're doing. Hopeforthecaregiver.com. Any donation of any amount, we'll send you a copy of that CD. I think you'll find it very meaningful.

Hopeforthecaregiver.com. We're talking with Rabbi Eric Walker, Messianic Rabbi Eric Walker. We're discussing the concept of shiva.

And what does this mean? This is the way that grief is observed for the bereaved in the Jewish culture. This has been going on for thousands of years.

You can go back and look at it. The first instance of reading about this is in Job 2 13. And after the loved one has passed, family members and friends come and sit with them. And they don't engage unless they are responding to something that the bereaved says. They don't initiate it.

Jesus himself would have been familiar with this. And we're talking about how this applies to the family caregiver. And that's why I want to pivot to talking about those who are grieving, but they have no service. There is no funeral service, but they're grieving the loss of their loved one who is no longer able to engage because of Alzheimer's or other similar types of afflictions or special needs family, going through the trauma and the loss of knowing that this child is going to grow up with much different expectations in their life than they would have normally had for a child. All of those kinds of things weigh into the world of a family caregiver. They're going through grief and they need to process that grief and have it respected in a way that's tangible and meaningful.

And that's what brings us to our conversation today. Can we take these same principles and learn how to engage those who are grieving and mourning and allow it to be processed in a healthier manner? Can we reflect Christ's compassion in this? If you've logged any kind of time in this world as a caregiver, you've heard the platitudes and the trite comments that people make unsolicited, like, well, God's obviously got a plan or she wouldn't be here. Well, thank you, Captain Obvious, you know, or they're in a better place, you know, that kind of stuff. You've heard this where people try to offer what they think is comfort.

But I think we could go deeper and I think we must go deeper into this. And that's where I go to scripture. And so I wanted to get Rabbi Walker to just spend some time and unpack this of what scripture says to this and how we as believers can respond to other people who are going through great trauma and heartache and loss. Maybe not in a funeral sense, maybe not with the passing of a loved one, but certainly have to watch the suffering and the angst and the heartache. And so thank you, Eric, very much.

Talk about this a little bit. Jesus's pattern was to never assume anything, even the obvious. The paralytic is lowered through the roof, obviously cannot walk. He's been in this condition for a very long time. And Jesus doesn't say, well, it's obvious this man needs healing. I'm just going to heal him. He asks him, what do you want?

When a man says, I want to walk, he said, take your pallet and go, get up. The only grief that I've ever really known from a mourning perspective, other than this, the regular traumas of life was when my father passed. This was a man that I never had a conversation with in my life. I never had a conversation with him.

I left home at 14, I graduated high school at 16, went off to college, went in the corporate world, never had a conversation with him in my life. And when he passed, he was in hospice. They called me to release him to die. It's really the only time I ever really spoke to him.

And he was in a coma. And my mother asked me to preach his funeral. And I didn't shed a tear. I didn't mourn the loss of my father. What I came to grips with was that I was in mourning, but I was in mourning because I had lost any opportunity to ever have the father that I would want. A different kind of mourning, but it's very comparable to the mourning of I'm never going to have a child who's going to be able to walk. I'm never going to have a child that's ever going to be able to take care of himself.

I'm never going to have the ability to go out dancing with Gracie or run a marathon with her. There's different things that we grieve in life. They're very personal. But because Jesus was a man who was familiar with sorrows, and because he asked what it was that people wanted, he was able to give them what they wanted.

And I think that it has to do with relationship with God. What do I want? Well, I want my daughter to walk. I want my daughter to...

Yes, you want that, okay? But that may change. I believe in the power of prayer. I believe in the power of miracles. But in the meantime, while we wait, how do we deal with that? How do we offer comfort? How do we minister?

The Bible shows us a pattern. It is for us to actively ask, what do you want? What do you need? How can I help you?

What can I do to support you in this? Do you need a couple of hours to take a break? Do you need somebody to run an errand for you? In so many situations, I see they have these online people providing meals for a period of time, but then that goes away after some specified period, some arbitrary period of time. But in these permanent situations where you're dealing with caregiving on a full-time basis, there are ongoing needs. There are ongoing, as you have talked about, that a healthy caregiver is a benefit to the person they're giving care to, but an unhealthy caregiver is a detriment to the person they're caring for. I want to circle back to something you said earlier about putting a healthy caregiver on a full-time basis. And I think that's a very important thing is putting your hand on top of someone else's, just holding their hand and then putting your other hand on top of theirs, just to be with them. And it reminded me of an event, when I was with Gracie, we were watching something on television and they were showing somebody running some kind of marathon or something and her eyes filled with tears and she said, I wish I could run again.

She used to be a runner before her accident. At that point, certainly there are a lot of scriptures that could come to mind that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings like eagles.

They shall run and not grow weary. And I could say all kinds of things, but it wasn't the time to say that. It was just the time. And I reached over and I just put my hand on hers and I said, I know. And I let her grieve it out.

I tried to get out of the way. There were times in the past where I tried to, you know, hope, direct her because her grief was so great as she endured these various losses that she's had to go over a period of time, legs and so forth, that I would try to steer it. And then she was not able to process that grief out appropriately. And I'm learning to respect the trauma, respect the grief.

And I want to see if that can translate to us as caregivers, where other people can learn to respect our grief, our trauma, and not try to assuage it or make it better or put out a nice bow on it, but to let it be what it's going to be. This year marks the 38th anniversary of Gracie's car accident. She's been hurt for 38 years.

And why is that number significant? Well, in Scripture, it refers to the guy at the pool who'd been there 38 years. And then Scripture repeats the sentiment of it and saying he'd been there a long time. So even Scripture recognized that it was a long time to be there.

And it's one of those moments for me that Scripture seems to just verify the plight that somebody's in and give it respect and give it credence. 38 years was a long time. It was just a long time. And I look at my wife and I think 38 years is a long time.

And you can't just glibly gloss over that. You have to give it respect. Well, 35 years, I've been her caregiver for 35 years.

That's a long time. And it takes time to process out that grief. And it takes understanding from people to help me do it, from clergy, from counselors, and so forth. And it's the same way with all my fellow caregivers.

We deserve to have the trauma that we live with respected and help us grieve through this in a healthier manner. Talk a little bit about that. Delve into that as Scripture brings clarity to this. God says in his presence there's fullness of joy.

He uses the things of the natural to reveal supernatural things. And so in our presence of making sure we visit, making sure we check in, making sure we make ourselves known to those we care about, that there becomes a certain comfort. And I think that what you're describing is that in building a relationship with a caregiver and showing them that you can be present, will then open up the opportunity because of trust, compassion, and presence to allow for more dialogue. I've wept when people wept. I've rejoiced when people have rejoiced. Imagine becoming that kind of friend that you can weep together, that you get a piece of news or you get frustrated just because this is, is this ever going to end? And if I wish it would end, I'm basically saying like the prodigal son to his father, I wish you were dead. The only way this infirmity is going to be healed and be over is at death. And so anytime you entertain that wish, I wish this was over, you're basically saying, I wish this person would die.

And that's not what your heart is. You want the condition to be gone, but you want the person restored. But some of these conditions are not fixable.

They're only sustainable or some minor improvements, adjustments, but it's not going away. We have to go closer together. We have to be transparent. And part of our transparency is being quiet, is to not have the answers.

We're so prone to know what's best for someone else. But if I were to come visit you on a regular basis and that barrier starts to drop and I catch you at a moment when you are vulnerable and you're able to open up, the greatest gift I can ever give you is a listening ear. I don't have anything to say. I only have ears in which to receive and to let you pour out and be free to express yourself. And then I give you a hug. Then during that, I take your hand and I just let you know I'm there.

I can't fix it, but it's okay. God says, I'll never leave you or forsake you. If we're a true friend, it says no greater gift than this, than for one man to lay down his life for another.

What if I don't get to another ball game? What if I don't get to another event, but I stop by to see Peter, just to check in on him? Am I esteeming him more than myself? Am I making my presence known that I become a trusted inner circle friend, that I'm an ear that's faithful and trustworthy that you can speak to when you're ready to talk and you're ready to talk? And that's the whole concept of Shiva is that if the bereaved feels comfortable and wants to talk and it brings them comfort to talk about it, it's up to them to initiate. It's not for me to be probative.

It's not for me to offer up an anecdote. It's just to be there to listen. This is Hope for the Caregiver. This is Peter Rosenberger. We're talking with Rabbi Walker. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Hope for the Caregiver.

I'm Peter Rosenberger. We're talking with Messianic Rabbi, Eric Walker. We're talking about grief. We're talking about mourning. And the reason I wanted to introduce this, and this is part of hopefully a series that we'll be able to do to address this issue, because I believe as family caregivers, that part of our journey to healthiness is learning and experiencing mourning in a healthy manner. We've got to learn to grieve well. And I know that sounds dire. That's not much of a a pathway to anything, Peter.

I think it is. I think it's a pathway to us accepting what is going on and grieving it out appropriately with hopefully the help of clergy and counselors and trusted friends. But they've got to have the vocabulary.

They've got to have the understanding of what that looks like. If you've watched suffering and trauma on a regular basis as a caregiver, I promise you there is grief and mourning in you that needs to come out. But scripture says, blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted. We are invited to comfort one another with the same comfort that we ourselves have received from the God of all comfort, Paul says in Corinthians. But it's hard to comfort others if we're trying to impose what we think is comforting to them.

And sometimes it starts with just sitting and just being and respecting the grief and the trauma that the other person is feeling and being with a bit, building that relationship of trust so that they can feel free then to grieve this out and receive that comfort in the process. Eric, close us out with this. And again, I thank you for addressing this issue. I can only tell you this, that there's nothing you can do to ever make God and stop loving you.

God's not punishing you and it's not because He uniquely selected you because He trusted you with this assignment and all these platitudes that we give to people and say that, you know, God must trust you so much to have given you and what an awesome responsibility. And so many things we try to say to people, we try to say to uplift. You don't need to hear that. No, I have heard it, but I don't need to hear you, right?

Right. You don't need to hear it. What you need to hear is that when your heart is heavy, that you can pick up the phone and you can call me at three o'clock in the morning and I will answer the phone and I'll say, what's going on? And that's the only thing that will come out of my mouth. And you will talk and you'll cry and I will cry with you. And I would just tell you, we'll close in a word of prayer.

I have no opinion to offer. You've got the chance to voice and everything that's hidden in darkness that's brought out into the light that allows you to bring it out into the open. It loses a lot of its magnitude, a lot of its heaviness because you've been able to share it. And if you know that you have somebody that you can openly and honestly share with that's going to listen, then you have a friend and support system that is just like God on earth being the ears of Messiah. You see, we always talk about the hands and feet of Messiah. We never talk about the ears of Messiah.

Messiah listens to us and us trying to be his hands and feet. Maybe we're better off being his ears and stop trying so hard to do and just be present and listen. You know, I've often said that this process of caring for one another like this is akin to holding someone's hair while they throw up.

I don't mean to be graphic or crass, but that's a real life picture of what it looks like to care for people. It has to happen. The grief has to come out. These things have to come out and we minister to one another as it happens. We're going to grieve.

That's a given. Are we grieving well and are we helping others do the same? Do we understand that as believers that we are not grieving as those who have no hope? That's the whole point of this, but it doesn't mean that we won't have tears, but we don't have to have tears of rage and despair.

We can have healthier tears and process this grief that we have that is deep in our hearts in an appropriate manner, in a healthy manner, and hopefully then offer that same comfort to others as we receive that comfort from the God of all comfort. Eric, I really appreciate you being here with me today. When people want to get in touch with you at Igniting a Nation, what's the best way to do that? IgnitingaNation.com and YouTube, both under Igniting a Nation. You just go to our channel, type in Peter Rosenberger and every one of our episodes will pull right up there and they can watch all the way through. IgnitingaNation.com.

Take a look. We're going to go through stuff. Let's go through it equipped and well prepared and I think you'll find that this vast library that Rabbi Eric Walker has will indeed help equip you and prepare you and give you insight to what's going on in our world today, particularly in the Middle East and also right here at home in our own hearts as we deal with the realities of our life as caregivers. This is Peter Rosenberger. This is Hope for the Caregiver at Hopeforthecaregiver.com. This is John Butler and I produce Hope for the Caregiver with Peter Rosenberger. Some of you know the remarkable story of Peter's wife Gracie and recently Peter talked to Gracie about all the wonderful things that have emerged from her difficult journey. Take a listen. Gracie, when you envisioned doing a prosthetic limb outreach, did you ever think that inmates would help you do that?

Not in a million years. When you go to the facility run by CoreCivic and you see the faces of these inmates that are working on prosthetic limbs that you have helped collect from all over the country that you put out the plea for and they're disassembling you see all these legs like what you have your own prosthetic and arms and arms when you see all this what does that do to you makes me cry because I see the smiles on their faces and I know I know what it is to be locked someplace where you can't get out without somebody else allowing you to get out of course being in the hospital so much and so long and so um these men are so glad that they get to be doing um as as one band said something good finally with my hands. Did you know before you became an amputee that parts of prosthetic limbs could be recycled?

No I had no idea you know I thought of peg leg I thought of wooden legs I never thought of titanium and carbon legs and flex feet and sea legs and all that I never thought about that. As you watch these inmates participate in something like this knowing that they're they're helping other people now walk they're providing the means for these supplies to get over there what does that do to you just on a heart level? I wish I could explain to the world what I see in there and I wish that I could be able to go and say the this guy right here he needs to go to Africa with us I never not feel that way I every time you know you always make me have to leave I don't want to leave them I feel like I'm at home with them and I feel like that we have a common bond that I would have never expected that only God could put together. Now that you've had an experience with it what do you think of the faith-based programs that CoreCivic offers? I think they're just absolutely awesome and I think every prison out there should have faith-based programs like this because the return rate of the men that are involved in this particular faith-based program and other ones like it but I know about this one are it's just an amazingly low rate compared to those who don't have them and I think that that says so much that doesn't have anything to do with me it just has something to do with God using somebody broken to help other broken people. If people want to donate a used prosthetic limbs whether from a loved one who passed away or you know somebody who outgrew them you've donated some of your own for them to do how do they do that? Oh please go to standingwithhope.com slash recycle standingwithhope.com Thanks Gracie.