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February 4, 2021 3:30 am
One of the most influential people in my life continues to be my piano professor from college, John Arnn. Now retired from Nashville's Belmont University, John fills his day with composing, arranging hymns and choral pieces, writing his second novel ...and even taking time to appear on his student's podcast!
John's teaching greatly enhanced my love of arranging hymns, and in this episode, we discussed how the principles apply to the family caregiver.
These are.com this is a show asked what I love to have a guest and no one is more interesting than my next professor in college still in learning greatly continues to inspire me to teach me. Help me learn and see things differently musically but also from a life and be amazed at how many things I've learned about caregiving from music theory. From this, and I'm glad to have it with this. He also played at our wedding, and he turned around and played our son's wedding. Many, many years later and it was just such a treat to have him there this is John Arndt. He is a retired professor from Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee, and a great sling player bebop player loves the Great American songbook and also continues to push himself to create the right to arrange weathered films or great songs for four wires original scores and he's now working on his second novel Swiss kind of a Renaissance fella and it really makes me mad because I got I could barely do one thing he's doing several but I'm glad to have a beer Johnson welcome to the show where good to see Peter and hello Gracie she is she would do what she said look, if you want me to join you on camera, you have to start doing these things later in the afternoon okay and I thought okay well that's what we'll do the best we can. Gracie live. The reason I'm having you want today and those who have listened to the show for some time will know these things back consistently. Reference music because that's been a big part of my life I've been a musician longer than the caregiver and that's saying something, but I learned life lessons from this and the other day I introduced my cohost John Butler who is not with us today for this interview but I always have some kind of funny interview for him when he comes on the show and for whatever reason I did this Bill Henry Mancini. We all know it and as I played it. It occurred to me that I was playing Carlos this in music theory 101 in the old days when we were just young kids full of mush learning music. One of the cardinal rules and harmonization when you're writing a piece don't use parallel for us and but it's the one thing about being musician as you learn to bend the rules and Henry Mancini built that rule and bent it so well that it became iconic and and did this with paraffins because it worked and I made the bridge to being a caregiver, sometimes reluctant to tradition that we don't have to abide by his caregivers. We can do things differently. We don't have to do it the way we always thought it had to be done.
We can be creative, we could adapt.
We can be flexible. I don't think it's in Scripture, but I think what my favorite Proverbs is blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape so but I as I mentioned that to you.
You had a great comment that you said about rules and parallel for us and so forth about music in general. Can you well. Since you were subjected to my theory, teaching you may remember, but knowing you, you may not. That's cold there math. My thinking is that if we teach music theory as a set of rules where missing the boat because there and in terms of theory, there are no rules so the rule quote of don't write parallel for this doesn't always apply this suggestion I would make would be don't think of is those what typically are believed to be rules. Think of them as practices which vary depending upon what you're trying to write, or what you're trying to see and you, along with don't write parallel for this is don't write parallel optics when we all know they sound pretty good, but not in four-part polyphonic music because the goal of polyphonic music are many voices is individual voices and if you link up to voices with parent with parallel fists and octaves you just lost a voice because the octaves simply reinforces that line and makes it. If there are two lines and going on contrapuntal lines. They you just lost your individuality of those lines will that brings me this is important to us, his caregivers, one of the things caregivers lose is their own voice.
This happens what happened to me. I've met a caregiver yet that hasn't struggled with the loss of identity in their journey yet on what you what you said is so important because caregivers can maintain their own voice and in the process make beautiful music, and to give you a musical illustration for those listening to what he somewhat if if we just do this all the time. That's it. Octaves but if you're willing to have an individual voice have voices in play. All of a sudden, music is made right in front of you and this is what happens in our relationships and our journeys. Caregivers is that was trying so hard to emulate someone else and do exactly what they did but we lose our individuality in the process and we miss the opportunity to make beautiful music even while dealing with very harsh circumstances. This happened to me repeatedly and an end. If you put it if you take it out of the music since a put it in the everyday since the caregivers ask a caregiver. How are you doing in the caregiver will invariably respond in first person plural or third person senior well we had a bad night or she's not doing real well or our situation but when you ask a caregiver. How are you doing specifically that's when a different tone will come out. Sometimes there's tears and stammering and so forth. But it's their voice and their voice is important. That goes back to what you just said we don't want to lose it individuality, we want to keep it. So we have beautiful music so that's my my bridge to two for music theory to caregiving. Yeah, I'm not near bar. I wasn't near the caregiver that you have had to become and do so well but we were and I say privilege and I'm not trying to be self-serving here but we were privileged to have my wife's mother who and who lived to be 99. We we had her and our house and I became a caregiver looking after her. When my wife was doing other chores away from the house and I just kind of stumbled on ways of dealing with her dementia. The main one is the simplest example is we would work. I would ask her to help me work a crossword puzzle and I would invariably ask her I'd give her a clue and I would preface that with well I know that you're not, probably you're not probably going to know this and she would start smiling because she knew that I was wrong and that I was just saying that and one one quick anecdote was. I asked her on one occasion clue and I said you're not, you're probably not going to know the answer to this but I'll go ahead and ask it anyway and then I asked her and and she responded with what I wasn't thinking that clue was but she was right. She had the right answer. I was imagining the wrong answer. That was kind of a little time for us to be together and I realized who she was at that point and it didn't matter what she thought I was at that point we just this had that time and I figured that was in a lot of sons-in-law might not be willing to make that but I thought it just like you that's that's my job right now and it is not a bad job.
It does mean is an easy job. It is not a bad job. It doesn't mean that you can't grow and become enriched through the process and this is my whole message to family caregivers. The, the predetermined outcome may be because of the diagnosis of your love what I was just talking with together the day, whose wife was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's. We know this stuck in well for him. The Army for her. But the question is what to go to it like for him that, yet unknown. And that's where the growth in the joy, the beauty can come about.
I gotta tell you I got out you on one story, as you told me this year said you actually you said this in class all those many years ago okay and I've quoted you often.
Sometimes I did what I was on like a TV or support that I would source it because I did what to get you in trouble while your brother lost a living, but I remember you told us the story of your sitting at the table the dinner table. Your mother loved. It was very opinionated and she thought about music. She supplied know what I like and you quietly injure Bob Newhart cutaway system. No, I think you like what you know. I don't remember who first said that but I I can. I can tell you quite honestly, I was only quoting somebody else but it worked well. It was it. If it did work it it it was funny and I remembered that day in class with you told us that it was so funny at half of that. That was 35+ years ago, so I haven't forgot that you like with no thought that was never that.
And you remember 251. We do then my job, you can rest assured that you did your successful as a teacher I remember back on your mother-in-law at 251251 of those you listing it's scratch your head over this to five what is a chord progression and I've also talked about how this applies to assist caregivers I give you an example. You play the minor. Then you go to the court that resolves the 1 quart so your ear is expecting you expected to go that 1 quart were great music starts to happen is when you go to something you didn't expect and you stretch it out and you bring in different resolutions. This is what I've learned through music.
A lot of music and listening over the years and everything is 251.
It's all about stretching it out and doing the unexpected resolving in ways that you didn't expect letting the music teach you in resolving ways that made you didn't expect. This is another life lesson for caregivers.
We don't have to resolve it the way we think it's going to resolve it doesn't have to go that way you can go a different way. Even if this sounds like going to a minor court that still beautiful music and if we can if we can condition our hearts a little bit to to be comfortable with something different.
We we don't lock yourself in this rigidity of things we can expand it it, we can we can see texture and color in ways that we didn't we didn't know that brings me to something I wanted just to spend little time with you and you have arranged untold amount of hymns. You and I both share a great affinity for the hymns. I remember when I was your my first year class with you. That would home to our church in South Carolina over my dad pastored and I was at the piano in the church there and I opened up the the cattle seat and there was one of your him your books of him arrangements really that the the pianist at our church purchase. It was learning.
I said that's my teacher and she was so depressed and overwhelmed us that that's what triggers your use one of his books and you've arranged who knows how many Dems over the years and would you approach you him arranging him and I love the hymns truly love them. I think it's a treasure trove of wonderful things that we have and sadly ultimate churches that got away from them but what what goes through your mind what you want to stay musically. Would you approach him. But what goes through your mind. First of all, and primary I pay attention to the text and try my best ability to react to that text because I have written been involved in music so long that part of it. I would not even call art I would call it craft. I know how to get from here to there and if I think I'm on my way to this it doesn't have to be that way but I can't give you an example. This takes him well to answer your question, I pay attention to the text and then I start thinking, what do I know musically that can amplify that text or color that text or in the example I'm about to give you is give us another way to think about that and if we have time for just sociable on one line.
You know the him shall we gather at the river which everybody know. Okay, now we have all the time you need okay okay my thinking is that the words of the text. Shall we gather at the river and then I tried in my limited way to understand what that lyric is really saying and the poetic aspect of it.
For example, is the songwriter saying we're going to gather at literally a river.
Well, that's cute and all that I kinda leaned towards what's he talking about when and I don't think it was Fanny Crosby so I'm using the masculine here. I think what he's thinking about is instead of the literal river it's choose to think and suggest that it's the river of life that runs through all of us that connects all of us.
And so when I sent that him the chord progression that you just played is what is matter fact for that whole phrase. Shall we gather at the river is typically played with 1 quart well and just the tonic chord.
How many beaches that is two measures is that beaks yes that's an eternity for me to dwell on the 1 quart is much as I love cords so what I'd I would change the harmony and land on the the cadence there on River and so I let me give you a chord progression now see if you're if you go this on beat one, and to you play the 1 quart now on beat to MLB three and four.
You play that to minor out on the first beat of the next measure play in E minor, whether the other.
The key of G okay okay what did he want me to plated plate QC okay so the nation Dan for that phrase. Shall we gather at the river I turn into the one cord that to minor seven did and then the next beat the next two beats are the three chord E minor okay now. At the same corresponding part. The original progression wouldn't notably go back to the one cord but I choose to replace the one cord with the six cord which is a minor court yet okay now the interesting thing is an and Lord knows we don't want to go down to hold your whole time with me. Go down to Syria lesson and the why's and wherefore but if you play you can play the same thing but was no seventh chords in those four cords only minor or major. But I have to go to nine of the matter to her briefly a suspension. Yes, now now play me play me just the a minor court not to seventh court okay now that minor course this is another unfortunate thing that we always assume that minor is sad and major is happy but minute you put that severance in that a minor chord you get it for me for my ears. I get the feeling of a sort of peacefulness are low on the social sale warp at a much more warm and so if it if it's warm, it feels good and you know that from living where you living and coming back into a roaring fire that warrants correspondence from my way of thinking into. Shall we gather at the River River now the minor gives that kind of a mystery and it is a mystery, but it's also a pleasant feeling. And Tsang said let's all gather at the river so that's I have to be out there with them. The seventh there not doing the night on here. Yes, you looked at nice in that a minor court and you butted up against the sea. Plenty of B and C together. He that sounds like an mistake, but it also it as not only the warmth of that cord but I kind of mystery writer and if I if I can talk into accepting that it did then it gets theological or it gets poetic thinking about this is a mysterious wonderful thing that were talking about. If you buy into this know that my interpretation of mystery that the river were talking I'm talking I'm thinking it's a river of life that connects all of us and that's that's too long.
Example of Mike's and Chris with the text does drive you what what is it said to me the hymns that we seen today, or worse.
I'm traditionally with a clunking this that did not really respect the text and and I was references to you the other day when I was doing wonderful words of life. Well, too many times in the old days we sing hymns like drinking songs you know to get out and I always hated that because I felt like let's get some respect to the text here. So what I did beautiful words, wonderful words, wonderful words of live. I wanted to do it with the beautiful words, wonderful words, see what the music would be to complement that and so I threw it up little walk down there is that this is what it means to me well to switch hands on you if I if I read to you the lyric I was sinking deep in sin, far from the peaceful sure now how is that said, it said I was sinking deep in sin. Well, the reason that's that's that's what somebody these things were range like and you are the one that taught me to go back and let's look at this differently. It turned out to be more of a life lesson that I realized hey let's look at this differently. There's certain music now that music has to progress and we can't always live totally in the past, but it's just like remembering things from your childhood what you know. What do you remember I remember this and it was just very pleasant and so you place that kind of reference in two tonal centered music and hands now as much as you say another philosophical thing to put in your hat. As much as I love cords and have the feeling that I just about got that required how to do cords, but there's this drinks in the one cord. Why are so many country songs over hard-core country songs only involves records 145 well primarily because they are the only major cords in the cord roster and any key and the strength of the major core is that you can play out the root of the major cord on the piano and you may not think about it this way, but the other notes in the major cord are there harmonically in the overtone series. So just a single note, but this 145 cord is so powerful that did for hard-core country songs, simplistic lyrics you don't need anymore course is matter fact every additional cord is is a diffusion if you will, from the strength of the key I'll stop on that note, one of the things you taught me was that, and as a pianist. This is this is harder. People realize okay about the preface that but to play a song this case to him. One note at a time just one single note, with one finger play that him that melody as expressively as you can with one finger. That may seem like it's easy but it's not really.it takes the lot of discipline and skill of self-control because were so used to throwing everything in this exactly. And so when I started arranging hymns. I went back again to the text and I would back to this melody.
This melody that has stood the test of time and has ministered and encouraged and strengthened untold millions know of these favorite hymns and then I built the cords around that that concept.
So, for example, Jesus loves me beautiful melody will know when I added to it and the reason I did that is because that him caregivers lose their identity and were so busy trying to get our loved one to God were trying to tear up the roof and get our loved one to Jesus that we are missing the fact we need to go to. He loves us to, he knows us to as carriers. He, Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so.
The very individual personal solid. So what I wanted to do was take that very simple melody and make it in a way that caregivers can remember the, the, the first time they heard it said that that the feelings they got when they heard it, but the now shared in a different light and say oh this means something to me without destroying the integrity of the song and end there was a point where early on I was trying to throw it everything I could into this to the arrangement because they look like to do yet, but wisdom along the way, musically says hey look what I can get out of the way to get out of the way of Udo look what I could avoid doing. Yes, and that's where musicality and wisdom intersect. Is that okay just because you can't do it doesn't mean you should do it and just because it sounds really cool and oppressive to do all this activity are you losing the integrity of the message of the song and this is the life lesson I've learned as a caregiver, yet I was doing everything Jon, I mean I did everything but just because I could do it. That didn't mean I should do and I had to pull back it's okay where's the integrity of of the journey is for me as a caregiver when a cure for grace and so forth. What is the core mission. Where's the melody where's my ability and then I started building everything around that it was.
It was truly a life changing moment for me.
Now that's I know that for some people looking superior, you are really good way to this theory, this is how I've learned to approach this is what is work for me and and it's been a huge teaching moment for me, both musically and as a caregiver and then into other things in life. I don't have to go and do you know musical gymnastics to show you how good I can play the piano.
I can go back to the integrity of the solvency. Hey listen to the message of the song.
It's a good song is worthy of your time and I'm going to get out of the way as much as I can and only accept hopefully the things that are going to touch your heart. That's the way I've approached arrangement.
That's what I learned from you will. I have my my wife and I are both teachers, piano teachers, and she has a young student who wanted to learn something about jazz and so I'm teaching him 30 minutes of their lesson and I would suggest this to know this is probably more teaching strategy, but we have a new made reference earlier to the American songbook. We have thousands of songs that are very very much fun to listen to and admire, but I don't. When I have this young man or this young man. When I think I you know I can. I kind of want to learn a new song ever Nanette because I got my I may have been playing for so long I can. I've got a vocabulary of I don't know because I started to count once how many songs do I know, and I got tired thinking about and so I decided to just keep adding songs. But if I want to add a song I look at what you and I know a lead sheet which is simply a melody and the suggested cord structures and chord symbols like piano chord symbols are guitar chord symbols and the first thing I did don't do is try to put all that together, even though I can I play the melody and do what you are just alluding to the melody is what we really remember if we like that song ended and if it's vocal. I mean if it's has a lyric with it.
Then we can study that lyric and I don't even play anything I don't play the root of the cord and the accompanying cord. I just played the melody and listen to that because therein lies the main essence of why that song is appealing. I think well this is this is what I've adopted as my own is what I love what you said these is the suggested cords on the lead sheet those you don't know anything about music and it's okay. I'm not here to try to immerse you into music theory, but box, for example, when you see manuscript for but that's not the suggested cords for box that's what he wrote. And it's important to understand that that's that's something worthy of playing exactly as he wrote it was good. Then it's good now with contemporary songs, jazz, blues, is as we went to the Great American songbook and so forth of the lead sheet has these court with it and those courts can change it. I've got my original book of lead sheets called real book that I had when I was in college and I still have his jobs penciled notes over tried this court instead tried these cords instead it it still have those pencil notes because they were not locked into that kind of rigidity. This is how I have evolved and grown as a caregiver, because I was locked into so much rigidity that I had to do it this way. I must've that I was listen to a guy last night who was just determined he was going to stay round-the-clock with his wife at the hospital who's in bad shape and he was becoming belligerent about been there done that she's had 80 surgeries I can't stay round-the-clock with her like that. It is not appropriate for me just because I end up depleting everything about me and it takes time and a lot of hard work and a lot of failure to realize oh I don't have to be that rigid music is help soften the blow for me so that I can be as expressive. I can adapt to be flexible and learn these things and I get a goes back to what is the melody, what, what's the core essence of of what I'm trying to do here trying to care for my wife without killing myself in the process. Yes, the cornice that's the melody. Everything else that needs to support that mission. Now this may seem pretty ethereal to connect the dots music theory wasn't all the Stuff but for me this is what's worked and it doesn't necessarily mean is go to work for you, but I just thought I'd spend a little time today give you some insights into how I've evolved through this process and and II look back with cringing over the things I did in my many years as a caregiver but also the cringing of the things that did in your classroom. Musically, when I was just banging away in and throwing everything up at the song not realize that it's okay to step back and let the song brief is let it breathability was good then it's good now it's okay.
So how did I learn that okay yes I about a Jedi yet and you need to know and I've already told you this before, and don't tear up on me but Salome my wife and I had such respect and appreciation for how you with Gracie. You have manage to be the caregiver you are and extend that wealth of experience to anyone who finds himself in that position and literally don't know what to do and so that's gracious well if you don't know what to do. Go back to the melody. When all else fails, go back to the melody. What's the core essence of your trying to care for this person you love without killing yourself in the process that there are seven things are more important than ever. As we deal with the challenges of covert, 19. How about your vulnerable loved ones. We can always check on them or be there in ways we like. That's why there's constant companion seamlessly weaving technology and personal attention to help push back against the isolation while addressing the critical safety issues of our vulnerable loved ones and their caregivers. Constant companion is the solution for families today.
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That's my companion. 247.com connection and independence for you and those you care about my companion. 247.com caregiver that is a drag from my seat is called near to the heart of God is peace and quiet rest did this CD specifically for muscle caregiver steps of the just called your soul down, listen to, greasing couple souls of the instrumentals and just hopefully providing peaceful place for you in a meaningful musical experience and I learned how to do these skills. These arrangements and to treat these hymns from the man I'm interviewing today John or my PO professor from way back when the 80s the University so glad to have him here with us.
I went to the last few months you've written one novel I had the privilege of just kind of coming alongside you as you that the was developing and you got it published and it's done.
Well, now you're working on the it is at the sequel to that story or is it just kept double know it's a sequel and where I am in the process. I think I'm through, but to before I turn it over to a formatter. I have this lady who is just incredible editing and she catches everything and I think I will go to my grave, not truly understanding the, but this I'm just he will was in the neighborhood of 30,000 words. So what were doing now here we will take a couple of chapters and I have Salome my wife read aloud to me and then she catches things like well Wendy, when did he know this is sounds like he Artie knows this but went Wendy, you know, this kind of thing I could never do that with Gracie. I could never have Gracie read my stuff still to this day it just dispensing the madness effort. It I've said this to Salome so odd, but it's difficult when you allow someone to read that she has she reads an incredible amount and has and she loves mysteries and that's what this is and so it is difficult for her children to not add things in like well you know I don't I don't think he I think he would say this at this point, then I have to I have to realize that I have asked her for her opinion, but I have to evaluate her concept of what the conversation is and what I think the conversation is and why her concept might be better if it is I'll take advantage of it. I'm no fool.
I trust there but I now have I just crossed over 47,000 and 200+ words and we're only halfway through the final reading of that, and help with the with your permission, you're not in your 40s. You are now 80 years old, 81, 81, your writing your second novel you're still arranging doing music, writing, composing all these things.
How important is that to you to keep your buying engaged like this short answer.
I'm not sure if your questions. How important is I am sure that is is very important and it has impacted my sleeping in the sense that I will be jolted awake by some thought and I have to employ a kind of mantra what it what you call in meditation mantra word that I read. I repeat to get back to sleep but I would you say meditation. I think of Jill being to the Gracie's things. Well, meditation and yoga position and not think enforcing your mind and not think about anything you not as so I try to do that and it is a struggle because I I start thinking of what I want to say what I say is this cease, think, well, that's the proper I learn things and then I realize that no women I'm thinking about the novel again and I don't want to do that. It's 3 o'clock in the morning. I'm not going to get up out of bed and write down some clever anecdote to use in the novel, so I try to go back to sleep and so I I have a couple of things that I repeat over and over again to force my mind to shut down as far as anything else but I've come up with some pretty good stuff at 2 o'clock in the morning and been able to remember it in your alluding to the fact that despite my youthful appearance. I am 81 but my my mind I have the typical older age, ability to not think us can't remember some things but I couldn't. At that time I will remind myself of what I was thinking and take care of it in the morning in room well and I look at the way are as our society ages and there's you I cannot stress enough the importance of keeping of working that muscle in her mind and music in writing and things like that are important part of how I do it and it sells Evan you will get.
I learned from you and I watched you and I don't think that I was watching art. Our dear friend Bill Purcell who was my advisory college and in amazing composer who recently passed away and I got to talk to him on his 94th birthday yet. I saw a video that his daughter posted two weeks before he died, and I sadly he contracts the cultivars it went down very fast and he was playing at a party and it was extraordinary what he was doing at 94 exactly and I thought wow, if I could do a fraction of that it 94 that I have done something really amazing and so I push myself.
You know to to constantly learn and constantly keep my mind sharp. I think this is what happens with us as caregivers, we have so much information flowing at us. But are we working muscles to to increase our abilities to process or at least maintain our ability to process and the music is been a big part of that for me and writing as well and and you know again I'm I'm learning from you on it and I just appreciate all that you taught me, and I thank you for this time that we could just hang out and talk a little bit about music theory little bit about caregiving little bit about life comes out. I want to make sure we push it because you you're a good writer your wonderful fiction writer as well as a wonderful composer so is very kind of you.
I will tell you one. This is more personal between me and you. You mention Bill Purcell.
I had such a admiration for, and I lost another friend who you I'm sure you know within the last month to cove it and that was Jeff Lazenby. I don't know if you tired of her, but I did know them very well okay well he would live to the right. Oh ripe old age of 65. The virus and so all of us are facing something that will end our life on here and I think the best thing we can do is just do the best we can and be try to be good. Try to be like Jesus tried it take care of people try to even if we don't like somebody that doesn't mean we can't love them. I have been told by another good friend so that's the best we can do where here for a certain amount of time and so my in my in my waning. It's even funny for me to say that my waning years. These creative things to not act on it would be a waste unit.
I could not agree more and the goal is not for us to like everything that we have to do like everyone that we do them for the goal is for us to be willing to be enriched by the journey and add like you said when we put a wood play just a straight minor chord. It may sound kind of sad. But will we put 1/7.
We put a ninth-inning. All of a sudden it feels warm and it feels inviting.
It feels comforting and may we all have a few extra butter nine cords in our life about it.
Well aware of them since that were about three, but one that I'm thinking about my producer. He's going to say you know I'm going to have to edit now because you would over the timeframe, but I don't care that's that's not that's not my concern.
My concern is to be able to have this time with you and somebody who looms large in my life. It has continued to reach down now through the decades and teach me what I sit down at the Catalan plate that I would see the reaction of people have my music I have to I have to remember my times with you and in the way you taught me to play that melody to to think about the text, what am I trying to accomplish here. It's not to impress the audience. It's to move the audience and that's it. That's a great life lesson so thank you for that.
Your producer will do this even without my invitation, but my life is a constant edit so we can he can make judicious cuts in my contribution to this conversation. Thank you for even offering as well know it is this is this is my treat. I get Gracie out here with us when they use music. Three of us here but this is my professor, I would say my former professor because he still a professor John Arndt from Belmont University national see is retired from active teaching at the classroom, but he hasn't retired from teaching and I don't think teachers ever retire first and I would substitute the word teacher for God's will set Wilson got a go. This is hope.
Iraqi Roseburg caregiver.com for more. We hope the time for you will see great this is John Butler and I produce hope for the caregiver with Peter Rosenberger. Some of you know the remarkable story of Peter's wife Gracie and recently Peter talk to Gracie about all the wonderful things that have emerged from her difficult journey. Take a listen Gracie. When you envision doing a prosthetic limb outreach. Did you ever think that inmates would help you do that, not in a million years. When you go to the facility run by core civic and you see that faces of these inmates that are working on prosthetic limbs that you have helped collect from all of the country that you put out the plea for and their disassembly sell these legs like what you have your own prosody and arms and orange everything when you see all this. What is it do you make me cry because I see the smiles on their faces and I know I know what it is to me like someplace where you can't get out without somebody else allowing you to get out course, being in the hospital so much and so long and so that these men are so glad that they get to be doing as as one man said something good family with my hands. Did you know before you became an amputee that parts of prosthetic limbs could be recycled. Now I had no idea and I thought a peg leg. I thought of wooden legs. I never thought of titanium and carbon lags and flex feet. The legs and all that. I never thought about that as you watch these inmates participate in something like this, knowing that there there helping other people they'll walk the providing the means for the supplies to get over there. What is it do to you. Just on the heart level. I wish I could explain to the world.
What I see in here and I wish that I could be able to go and say the this guy right here Denise go to Africa with that. I never not feel that way out every time you know you always make me have to leave. I don't want to leave them. II feel like I'm at home with them and I feel like we have a common bond that would've never expected that only God could put together.
Now that you've had experience with it what you think of the faith-based programs. The core civic offers.
I think they're just absolutely awesome and I think every prison out there should have faith-based programs like this because the return rate of the men that are involved in this particular faith-based program and other ones like it, but I know about this one are. It is just an amazingly low rate compared to those who don't happen and I think that says so much that has anything to do with me just has something to do with God using somebody broken to help other broken people. If people want to donate a use prosthetic limbs, whether from a love one who passed away or you know somebody well groomed. You've donated some of your own for the did how to how they do that please go to standing with hope.com/recycle staining with hope.com/recycle backspace one of our generous sponsors here. The Truth Network has come under fire fire from the enemy fire for standing up for family values. Actually one of the biggest supporters of the movie unplanned. The talked about the horrors of abortion. Yes, it's Mike Lindell.
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