Advice from Moses' Father-in-Law That Can Help With Landmine #7

Welcome to Hope for the Caregiver on American Family Radio.

This is Peter Rosenberger. This is the nation's number one show for the family caregiver. For those who are putting themselves willingly, knowingly, voluntarily, without pay, between an impaired loved one and even worse disaster, how do you help those folks? Why should you help those folks?

That's what this show is all about. There are 65 million people doing this. 65 million people that we kept in the US that, you know, personally, I think the numbers a little bit low.

65 million who are doing this while holding down a job, while raising their own family, or while giving up their own careers, are all kinds of different things that are going on. And the family caregiver is an at-risk individual. See, if the caregiver's not in a good place, what happens to that loved one? That's why we do the show. Because it's a two-for-one deal with every caregiver. Every time.

At least two-for-one. 888-589-8840, 888-589-8840, if you want to be a part of the show, we'd love to have you call in. You can also follow along on our, we stream the show live from Southwest Montana, where I am, and it is Hope for the Caregiver on Facebook, if you want to watch it, and we'd love to have you do so. And also, our Twitter feed is Hope for Caregiver. Our YouTube channel is Hope, the number four. I'm also a hopeful caregiver and the podcast is free as well. If you can go out to Hopeforthecaregiver.com, you can subscribe to the podcast.

It's free and you can share that around. We sometimes put transcripts of the show or the calls or whatever on there so that you can have them as a reference. If you hear something and say, wow, I need to go back and listen to that again. I have to, I think this is, for me, I don't like to present this show as a show of instruction because I don't think I need to instruct you or anybody else, but I do think we need to be reminded. And I think that we as caregivers can suffer from what I call caregiver amnesia. And I know I do, and I know that I also suffer from gospel amnesia. And these are things that we need to be reminded of that God has not abandoned us, that God has not forgotten us.

If you go back and look at the book of Deuteronomy where Moses is preaching to the people of Israel before they go into the promised land. All right, now look, don't forget all these things. You know, you would think that you wouldn't forget walking through the red sea on dry land. You would think that you wouldn't forget some of the things that some of these children had seen. Now the adults ended up having to die in the wilderness, but you would think that they wouldn't forget that quickly. But then again, look how quickly we forget things here in this country. I remember right after 9-11, all the members of Congress got out there in front of the Capitol singing God bless America.

How long did that last? So we forget, we do, and we need to be reminded of those things. And that's what this show is all about is to kind of help remind you of where safety is for you as a caregiver.

Now, let me take a quick moment here. I want you to understand you can download the app for American Family Radio. Go out to the iTunes or the Google Play Store or whatever. Get the app. It's a free app. And listen to the show and all the programming on American Family Radio on your devices. And I think you can get it. You can go back and they have all kinds of other things that you can listen to.

You don't have to listen to it right at that moment. They'll put things out on their site and you can access those things. But get the app.

And I think you'll be glad you did. I got to give credit to a buddy of mine who was telling me that because I know people can stream it, but I was sadly behind on the app. Devin is producing the show today. Devin, I was sadly behind on the app. And so I just wanted you to know that I had a buddy of mine who listens to the show regularly on his iPad and they were here with us and he told me about the app and I felt foolish because here I am on American Family Radio.

I didn't know that. But I got a lot of head and very little brain sometimes. All right, 888-589-8840. 888-589-8840 if you want to be a part of the show. If you're a caregiver right now, I got something I wanted to share with you.

In my book, Seven Caregiver Landmines, I detail seven things that really can hurt a caregiver. And I want to give you a scripture in Exodus 18. How many of you all have been reading in Exodus 18 lately? Exodus 18, and this is verse 14 through 17. When Moses' father-in-law, and you all know Moses, saw all that he was doing for the people. Now his father-in-law's name was Jethro, not to be confused with Jethro Bodine from the Beverly Hillbillies.

Jethro, and sometimes he was called Ruel I think. But anyway, the word Midian. When Moses' father-in-law saw all that he was doing for the people, he said, what is this that you are doing for the people? Why do you sit alone and all the people stand around you from morning till evening? And Moses said to his father-in-law, because the people come to me to inquire of God. And when they have a dispute, they come to me. And I decide between one person and another. And I make them know the statutes of God and his laws. Moses' father-in-law said to him, what you are doing is not good.

You and the people with you will certainly wear yourselves out, for the thing is too heavy for you. You are not able to do it alone. Now let's talk about you as a caregiver. One of the landmines in my book is landmine number seven, thinking that it's all up to me. Now the principles that we talk about on the show will apply across the board. They're rooted in scripture, they're rooted right there, what Moses' father-in-law said to him. And then what I try to do is show how this connects to you as a caregiver. You're going to get something out of what I'm saying if you're not a caregiver, but I'm speaking specifically to caregivers.

What you are doing, and I quote this, is not good. If you're trying to do this all by yourself, Moses fell into that trap. You know who didn't fall into that trap? Because a reporter asked me one time, he said, what would Jesus do as a caregiver?

The reporter was not for a Christian magazine or publication. And that was some years ago when everybody was going around going WWJD, what would Jesus do? And I said, I don't know what Jesus would do. Let me tell you what he did do. He delegated. He delegated care of his mother to the apostle John.

Go back and look at it. He was on the cross doing it. And the lesson I get from this is that it's not only okay, it's imperative that we delegate certain things, that we let go of it, that we don't try to do everything by ourselves. Because that's how we get hurt as caregivers. And that's how we hurt other people.

And it puts undue strain on us. Now it's hard to know what to do about that. It's hard to know how to do that and how to trust people with it. And that's something we can talk about. Because people are going to let you down.

They're going to get it wrong. One of the things we as caregivers struggle with is that we don't like to accept help or ask for help because first off, it's humbling to do so. It really is.

It's humbling to do so. And then you have that knot in your stomach thinking, are they going to come in here and judge me because the way I'm doing stuff or the mess that we've got in our house or whatever else? Or then are we going to have to clean it? Am I going to have to clean it behind these people? Are they going to get it wrong?

Are they going to do it for a while? And then they're going to throw their hands up and then they're going to leave. And then I'm back to it again. There's a lot of different scenarios that play out in our mind. But it still doesn't negate the point that we have to ask for help. And then we have to receive help.

I had a great lesson in that this week. We just moved from Nashville, Tennessee out to Southwest Montana this year. And we've been out here for several months, which is sold and closed on our home. And I have some dear friends of mine who stepped up and said, we want to drive the truck and the trailer out for you. Well, that's that's an amazing gift. And they did.

And they were here last night. And that's that's an extraordinary thing. And it's humbling. And I have to not only there's a lot of conflicting feelings going because I don't want to be a burden on people. I don't want to impose. But at the same time, I have to learn how to receive help. Do you struggle with learning how to receive help? You've been burned in it?

Maybe you have. Let's talk about that. 888-589-8840. If you want to be a part of the show, 888-589-8840.

Hope for the caregiver. This is Peter Rosenberger. This is the nation's number one show for you as a family caregiver. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the show for caregivers about caregivers hosted by a caregiver.

This is Peter Roseburg. This is the nation's number one show for the family caregiver. We are so glad that you are with us. 888-589-8840.

888-589-8840. If you want to be a part of the show. And we'd love to have you here.

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It's for the benefit of everyone you encounter. And this is what we've got to do as believers. We've got to strengthen each other. And the world's going barking mad right now.

Maybe it's been going that way for a long time but we're just now noticing because of social media we see it 24 seven. But you know if the church is not a source of light to the world then what are we doing? You know are we prepared to defend our faith? Are we prepared to share with other people? Are we prepared to speak into other people's pain and sorrow and heartache? Are we prepared to do that? Do we know what we're saying? Do we know what to do?

Do we know what to offer? That's what this network is all about whether it's social issues whether it's politics whether it's teaching or in this case for the family caregiver. That's what the show is all about.

888-589-8840 888-589-8840 and if you want to be a part of the show we'd love to have you. I was talking about this thing with asking for help. Asking and receiving help. That is it's not just it's not just asking it's receiving and it's humbling to do both.

And are you having a hard time with that? That's one of the landmines that we as caregivers face. It's in my book, Seven Caregiver Landmines and How You Can Avoid Them. Asking and receiving help. And there is a there is a dynamic that happens with caregivers.

It happens with a lot of people but let's just we're going to focus on caregivers today. And what happens is when we want to ask somebody for help or when we need help we're in a dilemma because we think that first off we've got to work up the courage to ask and then we've got to hope that they're going to receive a request positively and then that we hope that they'll step up and then we hope that they if they do show up and participate that they won't make it worse or they won't judge us or they won't come in and drop the ball or you know there's there's all and then then they'll do it for a while and they'll stop. I remember one time and part of it is it's important for us to understand what help is for ourselves and then it's also important to be listening to the Holy Spirit on help that may come that we didn't expect. But I remember one time I was speaking to a church and I just I kind of laid out our journey as in our family with Gracie stuff and we're looking you know 80 surgeries both legs amputated this been going on since 1983 and a hundred doctors have treated her and all kinds of stuff. And I was talking this one church this some years ago and I said okay if somebody like my family walked into the church how would you help somebody like us?

And one lady she it was kind of a town hall kind of thing because I like to do Q&A when I speak out of places and she was real precious she said well I could offer to come clean your house which I thought was incredibly gracious to do and I said that is a very thoughtful thing. Now you have to understand this has been going on from at the time for more than a quarter of a century. Are you prepared for that level of commitment?

And she said well I didn't think about that I said take a moment. So we have to understand that we what help looks like to us in a situation you know you can I've maintained this for some time that you can give caregivers a bag of cash and if their head space and heart space is squirrely we're not going to quite know what to do with it. I mean we know how to spend money but are we going to be good stewards of it are we going to put it in the right places and then we're going to need another bag of cash you know and I mean it just you see how this can snowball on us because of the nature of what we do as caregivers. We have to kind of get some type of plan so I go back to what what Moses was sitting there and this is Moses I mean Moses okay and his own father-in-law came to him and said dude man what are you doing what are you doing you trying to do all this by yourself and I love what what his father-in-law said to him he said what you are doing is not good you and the people with you will certainly wear yourselves out for the thing is too heavy for you you are not able to do it alone okay now if Moses had to hear that how about you and me I mean let's think that through if Moses had to hear that how about you and me so I would say to you as one caregiver to another the thing that you are trying to do doing it by yourself is not good it doesn't mean you're not going to have to do things by yourself it means that if you feel like this is all up to you it's unsustainable you're going to have to ask for help you're going to have to learn to receive help and that doesn't mean necessarily going around knocking on people's doors like that what what it means though is you're going to first off you go to scripture you go to God and say Lord I need help I don't really quite know what help looks like and it's going to come in different forms I promise you it'll come but it'll come in different forms forms that you don't expect I remember a lady walked into church one time she worked up the nerve she'd been taking care of her husband for about five years and with some kind of brain issue and her car broke down and she went to church and she finally screwed up enough courage to be able to ask somebody hey I need some help my car's broken down I'm in taking care of my husband and my car's broken down and the lady she was talking to at church said oh we're gonna pray for you and I'm gonna bring you a meal and this lady said you know I appreciate the prayers and I appreciate the meal but but I really need a mechanic my car's broken down you know and a lot of times people will will hear what they think they need to be doing and then they'll try to speak into it so you've got to learn how to own what help looks like and then you got to be able to receive it and in this particular case this and a lot of people like this we bring meals and stuff and I get that meals are great but you can only bring so many meals before somebody's gonna learn how to cook and this lady didn't need a tuna noodle casserole she needed a mechanic her car didn't work so there are several pieces of this can you identify what help looks like and then make your request known was it saying Philippians I think it says do not be anxious about anything but in everything with prayer and supplications make your request known to God okay make them known what you're asking for may not always be exactly what you need at that point but let's start with that and learn to be able to to speak it and I was somebody's gonna offer you back like this lady she went to said my car's broken down well I'm gonna bring you a casserole you know she was just being a tuna noodle helper and that's funny y'all could write that down but what we're what we want to do is be able to understand it's it's not a it's not a simple boilerplate kind of thing that we do as caregivers and but the more we walk in it the better we're going to be able to navigate through these things so what's going on with you are you are you in a position where you can ask for help are you too embarrassed to receive help are you too ashamed of the way your house looks to have anybody come over okay this is are you too ashamed of the way your loved one acts or looks you don't want anybody to be around they'll think bad of you or them or whatever else that's a good place to start now that doesn't mean your those feelings are going to go away it just means okay that's what they are that's how you feel about it now let's start with that and go to God with it let's go to God first because he's going to be working in people's hearts in ways that you cannot and he'll bring them in but if you're in a position where you're so closed off it doesn't matter who he says but Moses was in a position where he could listen to his father-in-law and to Moses's credit he did and he started delegating it out and I go back to what you know what Jesus did on the cross he delegated to John John your mother mother your son he delegated care of his mother to John and I think this is this is the lesson that we as caregivers can learn and put into place in our lives I'm not asking you to go out and start knocking on doors I'm simply asking you are you willing to receive help are you willing to go to your knees and say Lord I need help but I don't know what help always looks like and I remember one time my father gave me a great piece of advice when I was uh Gracie and I were really going through a pretty rough time and and we had everything was just crashing up the bills and everything it was it was it was pretty rough I mean when you've had 11 million dollar medical nightmare it can get pretty ugly at times and dad told me the story about Isaiah and in the book of Isaiah I believe in it and King Hezekiah got a letter from an Assyrian king I forget his name or if I if I do say his name I'll mangle it so I'm just gonna say it was that it was some king and in this letter he just the king laid out to King Hezekiah of Judah hey here's what I'm getting ready to do to you all you need to you need to be prepared for this because I'm coming to just bust you guys up and it frightened King Hezekiah I mean truly frightened him and he went into the temple there and he held the letter out just held the letter that they got to God and he just held it out he said I don't know what to do I'm paraphrasing of course but that's basically what he did he just went in there and said oh God I don't know what to do my father said you and Gracie sit down at the kitchen table you write out all these things take your bills if you have to lay them on the table and just say oh God we don't know what to do now there was no thunderbolt or lightning or anything like that but all of a sudden we started to see things changing in us and the way that we approach these things and little by little the help came just like it came to King Hezekiah just like it came to Moses when you start making decisions better decisions okay first off I'm gonna humble myself and I'm gonna realize that I have a need and the second thing is I'm gonna humble myself even more and realize that I need to receive in ways that I maybe can't control or expect 888-589-8840 888-589-8840 we'll be right back. Welcome back to the show for caregivers about caregivers hosted by a caregiver this is hope for the caregiver I am Peter Rosenberger this is the nation's number one show for the family caregiver we're here on American Family Radio we're live 888-589-8840 888-589-8840 we're talking about not trying to do this all by yourself not thinking that it's up to you the landmine is from my book seven caregiver landmines you can get it wherever books are sold seven caregiver landmines and how you can avoid them and the landmine number seven is thinking that this is all up to you now we know it's not and we know you a lot of people try to do this but let's let's just deal with our thinking right now thinking that it's all up to you all right I do want to squeeze in some calls here Annette in Arkansas Annette welcome to the show how are you feeling Annette well we'll come back to her I'm sorry I'm sorry there you are there you are Annette yeah I'm sorry I had my phone muted I muted earlier to silence the radio station I'm sorry that's all right how you feeling I'm in chronic pain I other than chronic pain I have not been yet diagnosed my symptoms look like Annette hang on let's stop let's start let's start all over how are you feeling I'm in a lot of pain okay who you taking care of actually as I told the man who answered the phone I said I actually have a fist on this because I am the patient my husband is cared a caregiver and my where's he helped some my husband or my son either one whoever's cared for you where are they on neither one of them are here with me right now I we were paying for care but I mostly just stay in bed and I can make I've got an electric wheelchair so I can get my food and come back to bed you know which is where I say most of the time so we decided not to pay anybody to be with me and if I get really really weak or severe dizziness felt like I was having for a while well we'll get to your husband and son in just a minute but what's what's pressing on your mind right now well my husband doesn't like to ask for help he always feels like he has to be the reliable and he's always thought that way I think it spins back to my childhood but anyway I've always told them well you know you're not really doing anything on your own anyway God's giving you the strength to do what you do and you felt without God you wouldn't have your job you wouldn't have strength you wouldn't have anything so remember that everything is from God now that probably goes over real well with him doesn't it yes it does actually he tells people what an encourager I am to him all the time because I'm helping him to stay focused on God's truth well where is he right now he's at work and what time will he get off he probably won't be home to about 6 30 all right he works for 12 and a quarter hour shifts when he works he's got a weird shift called two two three and anyway he but when he the days he works is two and a quarter hours so what's the what's the purpose of your call here today because I he and I have agreed I mean I wanted to die at home and he agreed to it but I don't know how I want to be fair to him and that's my concern I we have resources but he's he's reluctant to you know tap into them because he doesn't know how long he'll live after I die he doesn't know what time expenses are going to come how deep the expense they're going to get are you terminal I haven't been diagnosed I mean we're all terminal but I mean is death is death imminent for you in the next months or years well what happened it for a while I came very close to dying in August well once in June and once in August what happened was that this undiagnosed whatever I've got these in February I lost the appetite and I was very well I mean let me let me back up a second though first of all how old are you I'm 61 61 okay do your doctors think that you are in danger of dying anytime soon have they said hey I know and that you're in danger of dying in the next year they haven't diagnosed me they don't even know what's going on but they're not coming to you or your husband and saying hey you've got they're not coming to you and your husband saying hey you got a year no okay so death is really not on the table right now I mean you may die you may it was well I mean it I get that and we face death a lot in my family as well too and I get that I think that there's a lot of stuff that you're putting out here on the table about your husband but the at the bottom line is I the person I probably ought to spend some time with is your husband you're not going to be able to change him or make him do anything he doesn't want to do if he doesn't want to ask for help he's not going to do it if he doesn't want to tap into resources not going to want to do it if he wants to whatever so the question is why is he doing it what's what's going on with him is he in church yes do you go with him at all or does he go by himself I can't like I'm not able but he goes by himself now are you are you completely bedridden you mean you can't get into your motorized cart and go to church or go out and go to doctors appointments or things like that I'm include you know I'm in too much pain do you go to doctor's appointments I have to go to the doctor's appointment from time to time I'm at the hospital from time to time but that's pretty much it well I get it I live with somebody in pain all the time and it's a it's a brutal journey to go Annette I'm not exactly sure what you're well I get that too I'm not exactly sure what you're asking I know that your situation is uncomfortable and I think you're very worried about your husband because you see that the enormous burden it is on him but I think at this point that it would probably be best if he listened to the show if he called in the show and because he's going to talk to a guy that has been taking care of somebody in severe pain now for three plus decades I get it and and so whether or not you want to die in your home or anything like that do you or even the doctors you go to do you go to any doctors that deal with emotional and mental health you got a counselor or anything have you thought about it I wouldn't be able to no I wouldn't be able to I and the kind of pain I get and I'm just crying and asking God please take me home that well I get that I mean I live with somebody who is in that kind of pain and she's pushed through it to be able to seek out some help you know I live with somebody who's who's doing that so I think that have you told your doctors this that you're basically just laying in bed wanting to die yeah I told them I said I'm begging God to take me home because hey let me ask you a question maybe put it through to the end hold on what did the doctor say when you told him that they said well we're gonna try to make sure that you don't die why I mean what what's the point what what's the point of living and that I mean if you're in so much pain what's the point of living okay see I think that's I think that's God well it sounds like it's a little bit up to you right now because I think it's I think that's a little bit misguided it sounds like but if you don't want to live I think that sounds like the biggest problem if you don't want to live and I would imagine that particular behavior and mindset is very very troubling to your family and it's unsettling and I think that maybe it's tough he wished I would take me home so I wouldn't need my pain who who wishes that my husband he sees the well I think he wishes well you know what for me well you're probably gonna get your wish I mean part of this is part of this is how bad are you willing to trust God in the midst of your pain I mean how strong are you willing to trust God in the midst of your pain you keep wanting to die and your husband keeps wanting you to die guess what you're gonna die I'm still living and I don't understand much are you living I don't see how are you are you still living I mean are you really are you you're living in a bed and you get up and do this but but you're just sitting around wanting to die doesn't sound like you're one you're living so much do something for me when you go back to you read your you read your Bible don't you yeah I want you to read two things for me for you not for me for you Psalm 13 go back and read it I want you to read it incredibly slowly I mean super slow and when you finish reading it go back and read it again and then I want you to flip over into Acts where Paul and Silas were in prison and they've been beaten that day and they were they were put in stocks and they were in prison and they were stripped naked and beaten yes and around midnight they were doing what by the way that's act 16 for God yeah when's the last time you sang praises to God I do I win when's the last time probably two days ago three days ago all right well today is a new day today you can start singing praises to God if you're just laying there just keep saying I want to die and your husband comes in he says I want you to die pretty soon everybody's gonna want you to die how's that working out for you guys I don't I don't it's not 24-7 that I'm in that condition where I'm just begging God take me home it's when my pain is so severe all over my entire body from head to toe literally and I'm having a convulsions I I get it I I'm the one guy on the radio that's gonna get that except that my wife doesn't have it from head to toe because she doesn't have toes she's missing both legs I get it but I also know that she wants to live and she wants her life to mean something even in her pain go read Psalm 13 and Acts 16 read it and then read it with your husband hey this is Peter Rosenberger if you ever helped somebody walk for the first time I've had that privilege many times through our organization standing with hope when my wife Gracie gave up both of her legs following this horrible wreck that she had as a teenager and she tried to save him for years and if it just wouldn't work out and finally she relinquished him and thought wow this is it I mean I don't have any legs anymore what can God do with that and then she had this vision for using prosthetic limbs as a means of sharing the gospel to put legs on her fellow amputees and that's what we've been doing now since 2005 with standing with hope we work in the West African country of Ghana and you can be a part of that through supplies through supporting team members through supporting the work that we're doing over there you could designate a limb there's all kinds of ways that you could be a part of giving the gift that keeps on walking at standingwithhope.com would you take a moment to go out to standingwithhope.com and see how you can give they go walking and leaping and praising God you could be a part of that at standingwithhope.com. Welcome back to the show for caregivers about caregivers hosted by caregivers this is Peter Rosalberger this is the nation's number one show for the family caregiver for those who are caring for folks as you heard from our last caller she struggles she doesn't want to live how do you speak life to that how do you speak life to yourself in this thing and that's why I pointed to Psalm 13 because that's where you're going to get it that's where you see we're in act 16 where Paul and Silas were beaten in jail and they were bruised up and beaten in prison at midnight saying hymns we're going to have to understand that we're going to have pain and we're going to have a lot of pain but we've got to speak life to each other in this thing and you know Annette is speaking death to herself in the midst of it and I get it but her husband needs to speak life to her son needs to speak life to her because that's what scripture speaks life to us even in the midst of it when God's ready to take her home he'll take her home and I live with someone who is in significant pain very hard to describe but you did it that's her life and she's learned to live a life in the midst of it we're not promised a life without pain do we trust him in it are we willing to trust him in it these are very very difficult things that we deal with as caregivers but as you can see as you can hear from the conversation there's there's not this sense of okay I'm going to cling to the promises of God in the midst of this thing it's okay to cry it's okay to cry out in pain it's okay to be in anguish that's what Psalm 13 is all about all right let's go to Deborah in North Carolina Deborah good morning how are you feeling yeah hi good morning Peter I'm feeling a little bit overwhelmed and discouraged today okay let's go deeper I'm sorry no no no let's go deeper that's good I'm glad that's a great place to start because that's where a lot of caregivers are so tell us a little bit about it okay two years ago I had a daughter that was assaulted and she had a stroke and she almost died and for two years I have been caring for her she's aphasic she can't speak and she's a little independent she can walk she doesn't have the use of her right arm and her husband abandoned her I went to another state and I have been totally her sole caregiver she is has her own place but I find that the more I try to help her she has somewhat destructive behaviors she drinks and she wants us family members to bring her alcohol and she has a friend that helps her to continue in her bad habits of alcoholism and I don't know how to reach her I don't know what else to do for her to try to get her to understand that you know she's going to die I mean basically if she doesn't stop well there are three things that happen with alcoholics three potential paths that they can have whether they've had a stroke or been assaulted or whatever else if she's still an alcoholic there's three possible paths that she has she's going to get sobered up she's going to get locked up or she's going to get covered up means she'll die those are the only three choices that she has you are not responsible for what she chooses to put in her body you are not responsible for doing that and you cannot make her do anything different and you don't have the vocabulary to fix this there's not a there's not a phrase that you're going to come up with that's going to say you know all right here it is now you understand and she's going to smack her forehead I get it mom and I'm going to stop that's not going to happen she's going to have to she's going to have to hit a place where she cries out for help and then she's going to have to work a recovery program period that's the way this is going to play out or she's going to self-destruct all right period now if she wants you to bring her alcohol that's fine but you don't have to do it she didn't want all she wants but that's not your responsibility and that is not your place to do that you don't need to enable this in any way fashion or form and the way you care for your daughter is you put boundaries up and say this is what I will and will not participate now I say that rather firmly because you need to be firm in it however please understand that you're going to cry hot tears in those times because you're going to have to watch somebody you love circle the dream until she decides that she's had enough and she may or may not be capable of it I don't know I don't know what she's capable or not capable of but I know that you're not capable of going down this particular rabbit hole and saving her and the best thing that you can do for your daughter is for you to go to a recovery program for yourself for family members of alcoholics that is the best thing you can do and there's the Allen on program of his program start that is a that is a great place to start that is a great place to start and I would also recommend that you possibly seek some counseling for yourself on this and get a good social worker a good mental health counselor who's been around the block for a while you don't go to psychiatrists or psychologists are pretty expensive I think you can go to a licensed clinical social worker and do just fine but somebody who's just been around the block for a while and what about your church how's your pastor do you get along pretty well with your pastor I do yeah I do I do go to church I'm a regular attender yeah you feel like you feel like your pastor's got some good good insights or some good savvy to him I'm not sure he's real you know as far as that type counseling I do know that there are a couple other people in my church that are actually counselors I may go to them it's just it's hard it's hard for me to open up and talk to other people about it because you know Deborah I get that I truly do and I know it's hard but that's what this whole point of this conversation today is that we're learning that we're going to have to ask for help and right now you need help I mean you just do but help is not getting your daughter to stop drinking help is for you to accept the fact that your daughter is an alcoholic and disabled and all the other things and make peace with it with yourself and knowing what is yours and what is not yours I remember one time a reporter asked me you know what was the hardest thing for you to do as a as a caregiver and you've heard my story I mean Gracie's had 80 surgeries and 100 doctors have treated and 12 different hospitals but the hardest thing for me is to know what is mine and what is not mine to carry and I go back to what we talked about at the beginning of the show with Moses he was out there trying to carry the entire burden of a nation and his father-in-law said dude back away from this it's too big for you and I'll read that same scripture but in the context of your daughter this is what Moses' father-in-law said to him and I'm going to say it to you you will certainly wear yourselves out for this thing but the thing is too heavy for you you are not able to do it alone you can't fight alcoholism you can't fight what's happened to your daughter but you can deal with what's going on with you and that's where a good recovery program for family members of Alcoholic comes into play that's where good counseling comes into play that's where a good church situation where you're hearing the gospel repeated over and over and over to you to understand how God is faithful to you in this speaking life what I'm hoping that you'll do and I saw this with the last caller she's speaking death to herself in the midst of her pain I want her and her husband and her son and now you to speak life to yourselves and if nobody else is speaking life you're going to have to speak it to yourself David did that at Ziklag when his men were going to stone him and he said he just knelt down and he strengthened himself in the Lord that's what we have to do but that's why I do this show so that you have somebody that's saying to you hey Deborah we're going to speak life to you in this thing don't know what's going to happen with your daughter she may not make it but you have to you have to that's hard it's hard to hear it is hard it is because you try to I've tried for two years to save her to try to help save her but she doesn't seem to be interested in wanting to be safe well you know what I mean and once you do something go back our Savior was literally hanging on the cross wanting to save people that were not interested in being saved yeah that's true look look down at your hands look down at your hands do you see nail prints this isn't yours to fix you cannot save her she has a Savior you're not that Savior you're her mother and you will grieve over this and that's why it's so important for you to be around other people who understand this who can build you up in it because you will grieve over this and it will hurt I'm sorry it is it just will it's not going to that's not going to be fixed this side of heaven but that doesn't mean you can't get stronger in this that doesn't mean you can't make peace with this that doesn't mean you can't have joy in this that doesn't mean you can't be calmer in this see the goal here is not for you to fix your daughter the goal is for you to trust God as he moves in this thing no matter how this plays out so that you can be calmer and healthier as your daughter goes through these things and if you end up standing at a grave that you're not doing it with clenched fists but you it's really important for you to understand what you can and cannot do and you cannot fix this she doesn't want to be saved and you don't have the power to save her even if she does all you can do is point her to safety and decide what you will do and what you will not do and I would highly recommend you not enabling her by bringing her alcohol or anything else and just saying no to her it's going to be you're going to get blowback and she's going to say ugly things to you or communicate ugly things to you yeah she does but you know what Peter that's the disease I really appreciate it you know let me just tell you how much I appreciate how hard it was for me to make this phone call but I can tell from your conversation you really understand you do and that is so much appreciated and I respect you so much for that and thank you well listen don't don't hang up I'm going to get your information I'm going to send you a copy of my book seven caregiver landmines and but the phone does feel like a hundred pounds but I'm glad you picked it up and called that's why we do the show Deborah and I appreciate you I appreciate you taking the time to call don't hang up Devin's gonna get your information this is hope for the caregiver hope for the caregiver dot com we'll see you next week.