I was preaching a couple weeks ago at my church. I made this comment: Life change doesn't happen in rows; it happens in circles. I said, when you sit around a circle and look in the eyes of other people, and they share their story, and you share your story, and you open the Word together, that's going to change your life because now you're going to walk with them after that. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson, and I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com.
This is Family Life Today. What we're going to talk about today has literally—I wrote it down—has shaped who we are as people. Yep, has shaped who we are as a couple, and especially our legacy. I think this is such an important conversation because if we live out what we're going to talk about today, it will change our families, our marriages, our community, and the world. Because we're going to hit some things.
That every single believer needs to hear, and if they apply it, this will change your life. You cannot miss today's conversation. And by the way, guess who we got in the studio? This is a treat. We got the president of Family Life in the studio, Luke Middendorf and Christina Middendorf.
Welcome back! Thanks, guys. Thanks for having us back. Yeah, glad to be here again.
So, even as you hear us set up where we're going today, what would you add to that? Because our listener still doesn't know. They're like, "Okay, what is this? Is this oneness in marriage?" Because I think you guys resonate with what we said at the beginning. Because you were shaking your heads.
If you're watching on YouTube, you're like, "Oh, yeah, they're agreeing." Well, I think you set it up like this is so important, and you know has. Power to change the family, the community, the world. But it's really simple.
So they're they're probably thinking, what are they going to say?
Something I've never heard. Tell me the formula, and you're going to hear it and be like, that's it. Hopefully, we're going to unpack why the why and how it has been such a gift to us. And I would say this is a hidden secret for health and marriages. Yeah, it's not only important for the way we operate in the world, but it actually is a secret that we've experienced for.
Health and growth in our own marriage, and it's something you wouldn't suspect or say. Oh, here's something to help your marriage. You would never say this right off the top of.
Okay, if I'm watching or listening, I'm the guy right now going, "What is it? Would you guys stop teasing us and tell us what it is? How would you say it in a word or two? What are we talking about today? Your marriage is not meant to be alone.
Yeah, and in a word, discipleship. Yeah, you know, which by the way, we all know Jesus command the Great Commission. Go make disciples, not just converts. Which often we—that's part of it. But we love that disciples.
So, what do you mean your marriage is not meant to be lived alone? I think there is a misconception, especially for young people when they enter marriage, to say, "Okay, we finally made it. I've worked so hard, prayed so hard to find the right person, and I found him." And now here we go. We find an apartment or a house. We get our life together, and now it's just the two of us.
And ultimately, that can set up a marriage for disaster if you are oriented and you put so much pressure relationally just on the spouse that God has given you, whereas biblically He's created us for community. Of course, our relationship with Christ, relationship with our spouse, is most important, and then with our children. But God's made us for more—not just for us to impact people, but also to receive from people. Take us back to the beginning of you guys first getting married. You're alone.
You're like, "This is going to be amazing." What did your lives look like? Because you did have people in your lives. By the way, how many years? Seventeen. This May.
Our first place. We lived newly married was senior housing. We lived in an apartment, not like seniors in college. Seniors, senior citizens. It was it was attached to a nursing home, and it's where a lot of spouses would live.
of their Their spouses at the nursing home they would live in the senior apartments. We live there for free. Oh, for free! We were raising support to come on staff. Luke's dad was the COO of the company, and he said, "We need some more chaplaincy, spiritual care help.
If you guys could work ten hours a week each to help us, we could do it at the same time. You can live in our apartment for free. Corner apartment. We had a. It was spacious.
We had pull cords at the Bathroom, just in case we fell. Morning announcements would come on for the four o'clock supper. Seriously, yes. How old were you guys? We were.
I was twenty-three years old. Yeah. The unique thing was, we were coming out of a campus ministry context, so we had really four or five hundred people that we knew, and we're in this ministry, and yet it was clear as I was ending college, Christina had ended the year before, that God was bringing us together, that we'd be better together for the next season of our lives. And so we spent so much time preparing for the wedding, doing premarital counseling, thinking about what's our calling. Decided to do ministry, and all this effort was on us—really us and Jesus—in a lot of ways.
We get married, join staff, move into the senior housing, and I just remember sitting there in this little apartment. It was a corner, but it was small. And thinking, where did everyone go? We had all these people, life giving relationships, and then it was us. All this we we work towards it being just us, and then ultimately it felt lonely.
We're enjoying our relationship, but t here is got to be more as a married couple for us to thrive and grow into who God's called us to be. This senior housing put us in a different part of the Twin Cities than all of our friends and our community we'd built in college.
So we were a little geographically isolated.
So we found a church pretty quickly, and we saw that they had a marriage small group, and we're like, "Well, we're married, so we we should go." So we show up at this small group in someone's home, and all of the couples, the youngest couples, have high schoolers.
Okay, we thought we hit the jackpot. Because here are these people, fifteen, twenty years down the road from us.
Some of them had kids our age, who we get to learn from. And it was we probably spend nine months to a year in that small group before we moved, and it was so sweet.
So that was the beginning of our realization: we can't do this alone. We need people around us.
Well, Luke, you had said something about it puts pressure when you don't have people. You put pressure on each other in the relationship. What do you mean by that? And what would it look like had you not had people? The pressure we felt that first year of marriage is really the same pressure that we can feel today.
You know, all of us as individuals, we go into our day. We are in a ministry context or a business context, or if you're a teacher, you're experiencing a lot in a given day, a lot of emotions, a lot of situations, and you might be driving home thinking, like, I'd need to talk to someone about this, or sometimes even vent about it. And over time, if you're Spouse is the only person who's hearing about your stresses, your emotions, your complaints, your pressures at work. That can be a heavy weight. For that one person to carry, honestly, at the beginning, that was kind of how we oriented our lives.
Was again, we worked so hard on finding the right person, and I'm sharing everything with Christina because we didn't really know how to bring other people into our lives.
Now that we weren't single anymore, and it it just became too much for one person to bear. Yeah, it is is interesting. I'm guessing you've had the same experience. That a lot of couples I don't think have had, but I hope they even after this broadcast will have. And you know it could be any situation, but if you walk in a what we would call small group Bible study, whatever you want to call it, at our church we call it a small group.
If you decide as a couple to say I'm going to join this small group, whether it's married couples or not, but let's say it's a married couple small group, the thing that almost always happens: you walk in there and ten, fifteen, twenty minutes in, you go, and you may not say anything till you get in the car later, but you're like. They struggle like we do. Right away, you are like we're not alone. Yeah, and then hopefully, if t here is an older couple that's married ten years more, or you think t here is somebody over there that they've been through this ten years ahead of us, they got three year olds. We just had a baby.
There's somebody that's in the same year we are. I want to hang out with them and go have meal, but I need a Paul, a Timothy, a Barnabas, somebody in front of you, somebody beside you, somebody behind you. I mean, you go to the New Testament, you see that Apostle Paul was planting these churches. He's sort of ahead of you on the track. I just came to Christ.
I need somebody ahead of me that can teach me. You need a Paul. That's what it means.
Somebody more mature, maybe older, maybe ahead of you. Whatever way it looks, that's a Paul. A Timothy is like, who's behind me? That I'm going to pour in what I'm learning. I'm going to give to somebody else, and then Barnabas is somebody right about the same place, and we're walking beside each other.
Just again, we didn't really say, you know, what those different roles are, but we all need those three things in our life. I was preaching a couple weeks ago at my church. I made this comment: Your life will not change coming to Sunday mornings at our church. Hopefully it's great. Hopefully the sermon.
I hope you walk out and go that was good and powerful. It's not going to change your life. One hour a week will not do it. And my comment was, life change doesn't happen in rows; it happens in circles. I said, when you sit around a circle and look in the eyes of other people, and they share their story, and you share your story, and you open the Word together.
That's going to change your life because now you are going to walk with them after that circle, that that small group. Our financial partners are the heartbeat of this ministry, and when you join this monthly giving community, you're not just donating; you're building something eternal. And we'd be so honored to have you on the journey with us. We really would.
So, here's the question: Will you join us today? I hope your answer is yes. And if it is, go to familylifetoday dot com. You can click the donate button right there and become a part of. The monthly partner program.
This is Family Life today, and you're listening to Luke and Christina Mittendorf, who are the presidents of Family Life. I remember one of our sons was we were doing a series of church on discipleship, this whole idea, and he named it. You remember this? Oh yeah, the color of your dishes. And I'm like, what's that about?
He brought this idea to a teaching team planning, like, hey, let's do a series, and he called it some like, I want to know the color of dishes, or you should know. The color of my dishes. We're all like, "What are you talking about?" He goes, "Discipleship means you're in somebody's home and you know the color of the dishes because you've eaten there." Who's in your home? Who are you inviting? Like, that's good.
But I will say, you guys, the same thing. I feel like Dave and I were so fortunate. Crew is an amazing ministry.
So when we're in college, we are both being discipled. I would meet with Kathy. She'd go through an hour with me of like, "Here's your stuff," and now I want you to give it away.
So then I'd meet with my person that week, and I'd just do the exact same thing that Kathy walked me through. And then we get married. Then we're in ministry; it's so fun. And then we have children. And suddenly Dave is out doing all his things, and I'm by myself in my home.
And I get home; she's mad at me. And I'm like, "What am I? We've never been there." Sorry, sorry about that. I know I heard. I don't even know who I am at this point, and then I start putting the pressure on Dave, like you're not making me happy, you're not home enough, you're not talking to me, not even thinking of like he can't meet all of my needs.
Jesus can, but I also need people.
Okay, so you've been there, maybe. Let's hear about it. Did you experience that too? Oh, a hundred. I had so much resentment and bitterness.
Towards him in our early years of having kids, when we had our first and then our second kid, in a lot of ways, our professional life and ministry was taking off. There was more opportunities, more time to be spent working. We were working with athletes and coaches, and it was the time of my life. Our team was growing. There was just a lot of fruitfulness, and yet at home, it was very chaotic.
And we didn't really know what to do because we weren't giving people access to our life. It was so busy. Our second kid was dealing with some health issues, and was difficult for us just to go day to day. In a lot of ways, and our marriage was suffering. One good thing we did, going off of what you said, Dave, is we started to build a circle of people through our church.
We joined a small group with some other married couples. A couple of them were in ministry, as well, and that was a good first step. Where things really started to change was when one of those couples began to spend time in our home, and we began to spend time in their home. We learned so much from them, not just by the things they taught us. But their willingness to speak truths and grace into our lives.
Our small group was going out to this like small theater to see this show, and we'd had dinner all together at a restaurant, and we were driving from the restaurant to the theater. And I was about to get in the car with Luke, and my friend Sam said, "No, no, no, you're coming with me. Luke can go with her husband." And I was like, "Oh, fun, girl time," you know. She just cut right through it in the car, and she said, "Christina, I love you, and this is in love. But you are bitter and resentful towards your husband, and I.
It is a pattern. We've seen it for some time. I'd never, never in my life had someone be that direct with me before. What did you? My initial response was, I was mad, and then defensive, like, like I'm not bitter.
You don't know when I'm living. Why I'm bitter and defensive? You have no idea.
So that's like the ten-minute drive to the show. We're sitting through the show, and then my heart softens, right? And now I feel the the shame, the sadness, conviction, the conviction. And so then the drive home, we're separate again in cars, and we both park on our street. We're in the car for hours, parked on our street, and I was weeping.
I felt. I knew what she was saying was a hundred percent true. There was also a part of me wanting to know what is he saying to my imperfect husband because he is not saintly in this. We all want to know. He is not a saint, but it was my problem.
Like I was, the majority was my problem. Amir was held up to you. Yes, yeah. I don't like those mirrors. What was he saying to you?
He didn't say anything the first part of the drive, which is very typical. Of guys, we probably caught up about the sports game or the show we were going to see. But the second drive, when we went from the theater back to our house, is when he turned towards me. He showed up the mirror to me in the way I was prioritizing ministry and work over my spouse, and seeing Christina has real needs. And you need to shift your time, your attention, and your emotion towards her in the season, and really attune to where she is at, and prioritize her as God's gift to you, even more so.
What could you do to set her up well to grow in the season? And that was. A hard choice for you to make because home was unpleasant. I'm negative. I'm cranky.
I'm not sleeping well. The kids are little. I'm resentful, and he could go on campus, and he was the guy. He was beloved. He'd get the accolades and the attention.
No one had issues with him there. I needed to soften my heart towards him, but for him to move towards me when I am pokey and spiky and all my Bitterness is out there. Like, who wants to lean in and touch a cactus? Right? Nobody.
Nobody does.
So, after that conversation, was there like some major change? It wasn't just one conversation. They committed to showing up for us, walking with us, spending time. The four of us together, saying, "How's it going?" A week later, how's it going? A month later, we had a choice to make, though.
We could have said. Thanks for what you shared, but we're out. We don't. We don't want that. Like we'll figure this out on our own because it's not always fun to look in the mirror when you haven't looked in a while.
And yet, the commitment we made is we said we need to lean in. Actually, with each of these people individually, her with her friend, my with this guy, and also as a couple. Yeah, and we didn't know what that would look like because we had zero extra time.
So we have to get creative in this season while our Kids are young. I don't think they were even school age yet, or maybe they would come over during the day. During the day, sometimes Brooks was at preschool, and our older ones were in school. And if you are listening, and if you have kids in preschool or haven't started school, I just want to remind you: this is the hardest season of your life. Yes, and God, it's gonna get better.
Yeah, it will get better, but He doesn't want you to do it alone. Proverbs tw:enty seven six it says, "The wounds of a friend." Are trustworthy, yes, but the kisses of an enemy are excessive. Those were wounds at the time; like those were some hard truths. But boy, those were trustworthy, and they helped change you guys. Yep.
And actually, you know, I obviously don't know the couple, but that took courage. Oh, because sometimes you are afraid to say the hard thing, and also on the other side, it took humility for you guys to hear it and say it's true. I need to own that and make changes because I've said things like that sometimes, and it does not go well. You lose the relationship. They, you know, they're done with you.
They knew. Like we all have our circles of influence, right? Our sphere of people we know. We have a responsibility as believers to steward that, and so I really believe they felt before the Lord like it was an obedience issue for them to notice a sin pattern in people they loved and. Say, we need to point that out.
It would have been disobedient for them to say. We'll just let that go. We'll let it. We'll pray for them. We'll just hope it gets okay because we don't want to lose the relationship, and because they took the risk, it for sure has helped me have courage to lean in with other people because I saw them do it well.
She didn't beat around the bush, but she was kind and gracious. She was willing to share their own story. It wasn't a pointing the finger, shaming. It was a a me too. And I'm, I'm really sad, and we're nervous for you guys.
But it was, it, it was serious. I just remember feeling the weight of like this is a, a moment where either we lean in together or the separation just gets bigger.
So you've talked about a mentor or somebody. Speaking and pouring into you. What about because you just talked about you being a mentor to somebody else?
So this is the Timothy part. Yeah, the Apostle Paul poured into his disciple Timothy. Right. What's that look like for you guys?
So you're that couple now that's speaking life or or correction into somebody else. We've had the privilege of mentoring and discipling a lot of different people over the years, but as Christina said, it's very tempting to keep it in a box. To say I'm going to meet with you at this coffee shop or in a locker room in sports ministry, or wherever, and it's you're you're just talking about the word, or you're just talking about one part of their life. And there's something that really shifts when you get access into that person's life, or they get access into your life. And so, even in our previous season before we moved to Florida and moved a family life, there were a couple of couples that were in our lives that we thought, what would it look like to actually invite them into our home?
On a more regular basis, to see the color of your dishes, to see the color of the dishes, and the good and the bad of our own parenting, our own like you know, we've seen growth in our marriage, but it's nowhere near perfect. We still have those days where we go back to the patterns of overwork, over prioritizing ministry, or resentment, and to say actually that might be what they need to see. They don't necessarily need to see our perfection. They need to see us being an example, and what we talk about all the time is we're not called to be perfect examples. We are called to be living examples.
With one of the couples I'm thinking about, we just took the initiative and say, "Hey, you guys have been asking for time with us. Here's what we can offer you in this next season. Why don't you come over to our house once a month? I think it was, and the floor is yours." You can ask us questions that you have about parenting your young kids. You can ask us about ministry or your professional life, and we're committed in that hour and a half, two hours for you for your marriage.
There wasn't even specific content we went through, but for this couple, that's exactly what they needed, and they they right away took us up on it. And for the next year or two, it wasn't every month too.
Sometimes we missed, but that was so good for them. Probably even better for us to say they're going to watch us putting our kids to bed, the ups and the downs of that whole experience, and actually learn from watching our lives, not just what we teach them. How would you encourage somebody to find somebody ahead of them that they could reach out to and say, "Man, I'd I'd love it if you could pour into me." How how would you encourage somebody to do that? There is probably people in your life already that you might not be aware of. The first step really is you have to get involved in your local church.
There's a pool of people there, and again, as you said, and they're not perfect. Yeah, they're probably not people you want to put on the pedestal, but they might be just one stage of life ahead of you, one season of life, maybe a few years ahead or decades ahead. There's people that you know already who you could invite into your life, or even say, "Hey, I'd like to see your life and watch how do you make decisions." How do you think about finances, or parenting, or grandparenting, any of those things? And so, start with the people you already know, and be thinking about what's something that I need to grow in in this season, or that we need to grow in as a couple. That we could ask them to help us.
So it's it starts with that posture of humility and saying we need help. Who's already in our life? You don't have to necessarily go online and do a Google search or who are mentors in my community. That could be a route, but my guess is God has already put some couples or individuals in your life that you could initiate with and say, "Hey, we need help. Could you help us in this next season?" This is our passion, isn't it?
Yeah, discipleship. I hope it's every follower Christ's passion. And Luke and Christina, man, I this is their passion. It is for them to be leading family life. That is a real blessing.
That that is who we are and where we're going. We're doing the work of Jesus to make disciples through a thing called the family. Yeah, through marriage and family. And guess what? They're going to be back with us tomorrow.
So you don't want to miss it. Gets. Even richer. See you tomorrow. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a Crew Ministry, fifty years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.
