Share This Episode
Viewpoint on Mormonism Bill McKeever  Logo

Authority, Ordinances, and Preparation (Dallin H. Oaks) Part 3

Viewpoint on Mormonism / Bill McKeever
The Truth Network Radio
September 21, 2021 9:41 pm

Authority, Ordinances, and Preparation (Dallin H. Oaks) Part 3

Viewpoint on Mormonism / Bill McKeever

On-Demand Podcasts NEW!

This broadcaster has 662 podcast archives available on-demand.

Broadcaster's Links

Keep up-to-date with this broadcaster on social media and their website.


September 21, 2021 9:41 pm

This week Bill and Eric take a closer look at an article published in the August 2021 Liahona magazine and authored by Dallin H. Oaks, First Counselor of the First Presidency.

YOU MIGHT ALSO LIKE
The Daily Platform
Bob Jones University
The Daily Platform
Bob Jones University
Truth Talk
Stu Epperson
Our Daily Bread Ministries
Various Hosts
It's Time to Man Up!
Nikita Koloff

Viewpoint the program that examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 as a research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism. Why is the great apostasy so important it comes to the theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Welcome to this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism by the host, ability, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson.

My colleague at MRM were looking at an article that is in the August 2021 edition of the Leah holder magazine. It's an article titled authority ordinances and preparation.

It was written by Pres. Dallen H. Oaks, he's the first counselor in the first presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in yesterday show. We related a story that he tells in this article when he is talking to the wife of what he calls a prominent Protestant minister who came to his office. We don't know who this prominent minister is, but it did happen about 30 years ago. He said when he was talking to this lady.

She becomes a bit incredulous and asked him are you telling me that my husband didn't have any authority to baptize all those people he baptized his answer is intriguing. He starts off by saying no Oaks. You should've said no because you know that, no, one outside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has any authority to baptize. He had authority according to his church's congregation and the laws of the land. But that's not the question she was asking she wasn't limiting her husband's authority to baptize as a Protestant minister, according to those limitations. So when Oaks says no. I think he's being a bit dishonest here, though I give him credit.

He goes on later to explain his position. If you understand what the great apostasy is all about Bill than is pretty obvious that nobody has the authority of the LDS church. She probably doesn't know very much about that when she's asking I don't know what the circumstances were that made her and her husband decide to join the church as being a pastor and in the pastor's wife, but if he all he would've had to do is just say well let me just explain to you the great apostasy and this is the great barrier between Mormonism and Bill Christianity, and we should mention that Oaks goes on in his article to say, I testified to her that this authority has been restored and now exists only in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints you would mentioned yesterday Eric that if we are going to even consider embracing members of the LDS church as part of the Christian folders. We understand the Christian full to be according to the New Testament definition they would have to get rid of this doctrine of the great apostasy. Now of course that's not going to happen. Let me read to you from James Talmage, James E. Talmage was a Mormon apostle.

He wrote a book called the great apostasy and this is what he says on page number III he says the restored church affirms that a general apostasy developed during and after the apostolic. And that the primitive church lost its power, authority, and graces as a divine institution and degenerated into an earthly organization only the significance and importance of the great apostasy as a condition precedent to the reestablishment of the church in modern times is obvious. If the alleged apostasy of the primitive church was not a reality. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not the divine institution, its name proclaims. So I guess you could say in answer to your statement yesterday.

Eric it's not going to happen. There is no way that they can get rid of this doctrine and folks as long as that doctrine is a part of the LDS church as an institution. There is no way as a New Testament Christian. I can embrace and fellowship. Those who were members and hold to a position like that. I just cannot do it let me piggyback on that quote from James Talmage.

I give you another one from articles of faith. Page 203 Talmage said restoration of the church from the facts already stated, it is evident that the church was literally driven from the earth in the first 10 centuries immediately following the ministry of Christ.

The authority of the holy priesthood was lost among men, and no human power could restore that's page 203 yesterday bill you cited from Joseph Smith history chapter 1 verse 19.

This is what the manual gospel principle says the Savior told Joseph Smith not to join any church because the true church was not on the earth. He also said that the creeds of present churches were quote an abomination in his sight" that comes from gospel principles page 96 I'm to give you a couple other quotes and by the way, you can look at these quotes. In an article that I wrote titled should Mormons be considered Christians only if they deny the great apostasy first and so here's another quote these two actually come from Joseph Fielding Smith the 10th president of the LDS church. He said this in selections from doctrines of salvation. Page 311 we believe that when he was on the earth in his ministry, our Savior Jesus Christ established his church upon eternal principles fundamental to the salvation of mankind.

We believe that following the death of the ancient apostles. These eternal principles were corrupted and became mixed with pagan philosophy. We believe that the essential ordinances of the gospel were changed and modified by man's will and not by divine instruction. The church had become so corrupted and changed that it became necessary for the opening of the heavens, the coming of heavenly messengers and a restoration of the primitive faith and divine authority. One other quote. This comes from answers to gospel questions again. Joseph Fielding Smith says religious denominations relied entirely on the dead letter of the Bible for their authority. They close the heavens against themselves and their interpretations of Scripture without divine guidance led them into division subdivision and multiplication of churches, each going its own way blindly and in confusion. The power of the priesthood was lost in the true church of Jesus Christ ceased to exist on the earth. There had been no profit, no revelation, no divine instruction from the time of the apostles of old until the Lord again open the heavens and sent holy messengers to restore that which had been taken away, though I have an idea for those who are listening who are Christian believers who have Mormon friends who have said were Christians just like you. If the LDS church would just get rid of the great apostasy. Mormonism would fold because you have to get rid of the first vision you have to get rid of Joseph Smith being somebody who restored primitive as he calls it here primitive Christianity. This is a big issue and for us as Christians.

This would be the starting place for for a person to say that they want to be a Christian just like us.

They need to deny the great apostasy you can find the article MRM.org/deny great apostasy with hyphens between those I think you make a great point because Mormon leaders themselves know that that's a starting point. When you have somebody like James Talmage in a Joseph Fielding Smith people like that.

Pointing to this great apostasy say look this has to be that obviously that becomes a foundational issue when it comes to the authority that the LDS church claims for itself not even that word authority needs to be defined and Ellen Oakes is going to do that as he goes on in this article, as were going to see he's going to make a big deal out of this word authority because as Oakes and other leaders in the LDS church have clearly stated that's one of the biggest reasons. They conclude that all the churches outside of their church are false and apostate. They do not have this authority. But we have to define what that actually means. And if we do not get the definition properly understood. It's easy to talk back and forth without even communicating to each other but I think we should introduce were going to be talking about, mostly in tomorrow's show and that is when he talks about the importance of this authority, the importance of authority is evident in many scriptural accounts of our Savior's earthly ministry. We read that the people he taught quote were astonished at his doctrine, for he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes." Any quotes from the synoptic Gospels in the synagogue, they were amazed that with authority command if he even the unclean spirits and they do obey him. As for Mark 127. Jesus told the questioning scribes that the Son of Man hath power on earth to forgive sins. As for Mark 210. Later, the chief priests and elders asked him, by what authority acted. He quotes from Matthew and Mark. They did not meet his requirements for an answer, but what he later said and did reveals his answer when he called his apostles.

He ordained them. John 1516, that he might send them forth to preach and to have power to heal sicknesses and the cast out devils and that comes from Mark three when he called the 70 he gave them power. Luke 1019, the Savior had divine power and authority and he shared it as John the Baptist said the father hath given all things into his hands, and that's from John 335 know in the next section. It's highlighted the role of ordinances in this is where Ellen Oakes gives us the context for everything that he just cited previously. He says the most familiar examples of the exercise of priesthood authority involve ordinances, ordinances, and priesthood are inseparable. He says, but let's not forget Eric just read a number of citations from various verses in the New Testament. Every one of them speaks of authority that Jesus had and how he gave this authority to others. However, what we do not find in any of those verses that Dell and Oakes sites is the word priesthood priesthood and down Oakes is reading every single one of those verses as if the word priesthood could be in those passages, even though they're not. The point is this.

He's talking about priesthood authority and is trying to make these verses say that they are referring to this unique priesthood authority that only the LDS church has, but not one all those verses says that it's kind of like how we read the gospel topics essays Eric and you know how in the footnotes. They got all these references and then we check those footnotes and references really don't say what they're trying to say they don't support the premise that the church is taking at this time. This is a classic example of an LDS leader miss using Bible verses trying to give the impression that it's saying something that supports an LDS position when those verses do not support that position at all. None of them have the word priesthood in it. Look at the verses that he gives Matthew 728 29 Luke 436 Mark 127 more to tell. Luke 524 of them are saying what Ellen Oakes is implying that their same hello Eric, I guess if I was a member of the church. I would almost be ashamed at how one of my leaders misused all these Bible verses to try and give the impression that they are saying something that these verses are not saying. In fact we don't even read of any type of Melchizedek priesthood authority in the New Testament, except perhaps in the book of Hebrews when it's speaking of Jesus himself and not your average human being. Thank you for listening. If you would like more information regarding his research ministry.

We encourage you to visit our website at www.mrm.org you can request your free newsletter is a research we hope you will join us again as we look at another viewpoint on Mormonism


Get The Truth Mobile App and Listen to your Favorite Station Anytime