Fan Mail Friday

Viewpoint on Mormonism, the program that examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from a biblical perspective. Viewpoint on Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism Research Ministry. Since 1979, Mormonism Research Ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now your host for today's Viewpoint on Mormonism.

It's Fan Mail Friday. Welcome to this edition of Viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director of Mormonism Research Ministry, and with me today is Eric Johnson, my colleague at MRM.

Fan Mail Friday, Eric. We haven't done one of these shows in quite a while, but we did get a response to an article that I wrote titled, As God Is, Man May Be. A Latter-day Saint by the name of Robert took exception to what I wrote in that piece, and so we're going to look very quickly at some of the things that he said. But the article that I wrote was called, As God Is, Man May Be.

It can be found on our website at MRM.org, and I'm basically referring to, of course, the Lorenzo Snow couplet, As Man Is, God Once Was, As God Is, Man May Become. He quotes from the article, and then he says, rightfully, here is my answer. He says, this doctrine, this doctrine of becoming a god, of course, that's the context, is no different than the ancient biblical doctrine of deification, which is essentially the very same as that taught by the Eastern Orthodox Church. Now, this doctrine of deification that he's talking about is otherwise known as theosis.

We've talked about this on this show several times, and we've addressed it on our website as well. But when he says, Eric, this doctrine is no different than that, well, he leaves out the word that, than the ancient biblical doctrine of deification, which is essentially the very same as that taught by the Eastern Orthodox Church. In the next sentence, Robert says, in the beginning of the establishment of the Christian church, there were leaders and theologians that essentially taught and said the same thing as Joseph Smith and Lorenzo Snow.

And of course, Lorenzo Snow is credited with the Lorenzo Snow couplet, As Man Is, God Once Was, dot dot dot. That is an inaccurate assumption. And here's why I chose not to take this man's argument seriously, besides the fact that I've already responded to these things on our website. When you make an assumption such as this, that what the church is teaching is no different, and the very same, and the same thing as every argument you make based on that premise is going to be faulty. So he can give me quote after quote after quote from the early church fathers that he thinks supports Joseph Smith. The fact is, they don't support Joseph Smith. Now, he mentions the Eastern Orthodox Church, which last I checked, Eric, is still in existence today. And since this notion of a comparison between Theosis and the Lorenzo Snow couplet has been around, a lot of them have objected to the comparison that Mormons have made.

Now, this goes back, I think it goes back to 1988. There was an article in the Ensign magazine. It was authored by Dr. Daniel C. Peterson and Stephen D. Ricks. It was titled Comparing LDS Beliefs with First Century Christianity.

Now, let me read you a statement from that article that I'm absolutely sure Robert is getting his information from. If not from it directly, he's gotten it from some other Latter-day Saint writing, which kind of springboards off of it. The question is, is it true that because Latter-day Saints believe that human beings can eventually become like God, they are not Christian? The authors cite, as even a cursory glance at early Christian thought reveals, the idea that man might become as God, known in Greek as Theosis, may be found virtually everywhere from the New Testament through the writings of the first four centuries. Church members take seriously such passages as Psalm 80 to 6, John 10, 33 to 36, and Philippians 2, 5 through 6, which I might add, we've talked about on this show and written about numerous times, in which, the authors say, a plurality of gods and the idea of becoming like God are mentioned. Notice the assumption that is being made by Ricks and Peterson. They're assuming the Christian church, the New Testament church, was polytheistic. I don't see that in the New Testament. The only way I see anything close to that is if you take a verse and you inject a presupposition and make the verse say something that I don't think the verse is saying at all.

And that's unfortunately what happens a lot. But I made the comment earlier that the Eastern Orthodox Church is still around and they have responded to this notion that Eastern Orthodox Theosis is similar to the doctrine of deification as is taught today by the Latter-day Saint church. And we don't find the Eastern Orthodox scholars saying, yeah, you're right. You're like us.

We're like you. They don't say that. The Mormons are quick to say we're like the Orthodox, but the Orthodox are not quick to say, Hey, we're like you Latter-day Saints. Don't you think that if the doctrine is no different than that of the ancient biblical doctrine of deification or that the doctrine is the very same as is taught by the Eastern Orthodox Church, that there would be this reciprocal understanding of the doctrine.

We don't find that. So based on this premise, I can't take this individual's arguments seriously because everything is springboarding off a faulty assumption. Bill, you write about this idea of Godhood and Theosis on the website mrm.org slash exaltation, and you cite from a book by Richard and Joan Oseling. Richard Oseling used to be a reporter with Time Magazine, and he wrote a book a few years ago called Mormon America, the Power and the Promise. So I want to take the time to actually cite two different places where you put it on the website. So if you're interested in this, we don't have time to go through your entire article, but I think the two quotes that he gives are excellent. The first one is found on page 312. He talks about how LDS apologists have used this.

I think you're right. I think it probably started in 1988, but this is what he writes. Robert Millet, speaking at a 1998 church educational system, Fireside said this, quote, a study of Christian history reveals that the doctrine of the deification of man was taught at least until the 5th century by such notables as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Justin Martyr, Athanasius, and Augustine. Stephen Robinson in his books Are Mormons Christians and How Why the Divide cites such patristic authors as Irenaeus, Ye are Gods, and All of You are Sons of the Most High. For it was necessary at first that nature be exhibited, then after that which was mortal would be conquered and swallowed up in immortality. And then he quotes from Athanasius, the word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. Now on the surface, Bill, when you hear these quotes from these early church fathers, it sounds like, wow, maybe this is what Mormons believe today. And so we've got an issue.

How are we going to solve that? Well, he writes a whole section in the book Mormon America and How God Came to Be This is what Richard Osselin and Joan Osselin, they cite from an Eastern Orthodox teacher Bishop Ware. Bill, tell us a little bit about Bishop Ware. Well, Bishop Ware is a very well respected Eastern Orthodox clergyman.

He also goes by the name Callistus Ware. But he has responded to the Mormon specifically on this subject. And here's the point. If you make a comparison with another group, and the group comes out and says, there is no comparison, quit making the comparison.

They don't agree with you. And so this is why when Robert says the doctrine is no different, I have an objection to that because that's not true. So referring to the early church fathers, as well as C.S. Lewis, the British writer who wrote Mere Christianity and many other favorite books that many Christians enjoy.

Many Latter-day Saints like to use C.S. Lewis in his quotes. And so this is what Bishop Ware says in response to the Latter-day Saints dating this comparison. And this is what he writes.

It is clear to me that C.S. Lewis understands the doctrine of theosis in essentially the same way as the Orthodox church does. Indeed, he probably derived his viewpoint from reading such Greek fathers as Athanasius. On the other hand, the Mormon view is altogether different from what Lewis and the Orthodox church believe. Orthodox theology emphasizes that there is a clear distinction in the current phraseology and ontological gap between God and creator and the creation which he has made. This gap is bridged by divine love supremely through the incarnation, but it is not abolished. The distinction between the uncreated and the created still remains. The incarnation is a unique event. Deification on the Orthodox understanding is to be interpreted in terms of the distinction between the divine essence and the divine energies. Human beings share by God's mercy in his energies, but not in his essence either in the present age or in the age to come. That is to say, in theosis, the saints participate in the grace, power, and glory of God, but they never become God by essence.

Do you see what he did, Bill? He showed that there is no comparison when the Mormon says theosis is a support, that the idea that people can become gods, he says, no, not in the essence, but rather in the power. And there's a much different nuance that Robert and Millet and Peterson are making.

And I think that's why this is problematic. In Mormonism, most certainly, the god they worship, you would think, is of the same essence as the god that preceded him. And remember, in Mormonism, they have what's known as this infinite regression of gods. Who the first god is, no Latter-day Saint knows.

They've never even tried to answer that question. But they believe that their god was once a man who's the offspring of a god who also was once a man, going clear back into eternity past. Now, certainly, that is not a Christian teaching. It's never been embraced as being an Orthodox teaching. And when I say Orthodox, I don't mean it in the sense as the Orthodox Church.

But I mean, correct. They've never seen this as a correct teaching. But it is a major doctrine in Mormonism. At least, Peterson recognizes that if this doctrine is true, there is what is known, as he says, a plurality of gods.

That's not something that Christians have historically taught if you look at the verses, the proof texts, that many Latter-day Saints have used to support that faulty premise. What did Robert write at the very end of his letter? Well, at the very end, Robert thinks that he's made his case. And I can understand that, coming from his faulty premise, he thinks he may have made a case. But then at the end, he says, therefore, and speaking about me, he says, now that you know that the doctrine was taught in the early Christian church for over 500 years, I hope that you will take the time to answer my answer to your misguided question. And I, regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its teachings, and it would be the decent thing to apologize to the prophet of the LDS church himself.

What am I apologizing for? I've stated a truism according to the context of Mormonism. He is basically, in his own mind, he thinks he has supported the conclusion that I already accept in the context of Mormonism. I just don't believe that his premise is a good premise. And therefore, everything based off of that false premise is going to be questionable. And I think Robert has proven my point. Thank you for listening. If you would like more information regarding Mormonism Research Ministry, we encourage you to visit our website at www.mrm.org, where you can request our free newsletter, Mormonism Researched. We hope you will join us again as we look at another Viewpoint on Mormonism.