This is the Truth Network. Yes, people are critical of the church. The church has let me down. The church is full of hypocrites. I can't find the perfect church.
But I'm standing next to a man who's very positive about the church. In fact, you just had a breaking growth barriers conference at your church with a bunch of churches. Like, how many folks were there representing? There were about 60 churches from seven states, probably 250 people. Wow.
250 pastors, 250 pastors. Pastors.
Okay, Pastor Andrew Hopper, we're in Greensboro. We just had a cool lunch there. And you bought my lunch, man. Thank you so much. Man, I'm glad to do it.
What a blessing. It's just so encouraging. Pastor, to hear that. To hear, you know, maybe sometimes we complain: hey, you're still my members. Hey, wait a second.
Hey, the numbers aren't where they are. Hey, giving's down. And then, you know, obviously the church, we've dropped the ball, you know, in some ways, sure, no doubt, but. Give us your perspective, like as you talk to these guys, as your church, God's growing, your church, Mercy Hill here in Greensboro, all these campuses, what's God doing? And give us what you feel like God's put on your heart for the church right now.
Yeah, when you zoom out, I think you see a lot of work that the Lord is doing through the church. And um You also understand that biblically speaking, we are the bride, and you think about how God delights in us. And I think that that, you know, thinking about Song of Solomon, thinking about, you know, the way that, the way, even Proverbs 31, the way that the Proverbs 31 wife is viewed by her husband. I think that's the way that God looks at the church. And He, of course, He does because He's covered us with His blood and He sees us as righteous.
And so, yeah, I think the cynicism and wanting to take cheap shots and say things that are not, you know, they're not really charitable. You know, anybody can pick out things that are negative. That's not very hard to do. Um I think the harder thing is is kind of fighting to see what's positive and And trying to have more of that kind of attitude. Of course, because God does, it seems like from the book.
Well, Pastor, every time I sit down with you, it's refreshing because I hear from the heart of a man. Who, when you find out a church over there is doing something right, you want to encourage them, you want to support them. In fact, and learn and learn from them, yeah. And you, but you bring all these guys in. To pour into them, to share it with them.
It's like, what college football coach? brings a bunch of other coaches in. You know, and opens up his playbook and says, Okay, guys, here's all of our X's and O's. I mean, talk about the big C Church collaborative. The Lord is working, souls are coming to Christ, and you're trying to help other guys.
I mean, how counterintuitive. Is that today?
Well, one of my mentors said, you know, you gotta remember. Jesus is the pastor, we're all Sunday school teachers. One church, right? And so I think that's a really good place to start. We're not all competing, it's not, there's not a bunch of different football teams, there's one team.
And because there's one team, the global church, it's broken down into local churches, and I think that we can help each other. Another thing is, I've been helped. In immense ways, Mercy Hill would not be anything like what it is now if it weren't for godly men in my life. Um J.D. Greer, Larry Osbourne.
Among others, you know, that said, Hey, we want to be open-handed with you and we want to teach you. And that continues to this day. I mean, our church is 14 years old. I was on a call this morning with Joby Martin from Church of 1122, and it's like, man, there's still guys that are ahead of us that are pouring back in. And so, all we can do is take that and pour back into others.
What's your challenge to folks out there looking for a healthy church? They're hearing this interview, they're saying, Okay, I'm gonna stop complaining, I'm gonna start being upset, I'm tired of watching services. In my jammers on Sunday morning, I want to go plug in. What should they look for? And what's your kind of challenge?
Even give us a little general rebuke, give us a little tough love. Yeah, I would say, man, being a Christian and not being a part of a local church is like calling yourself a baseball player without being on a team. You know, that's not really how it works. We flesh our things out, we flesh our faith out in the local church. In terms of finding the good local church, I would say, man, gospel center preaching is number one.
You say, well, what's that? It simply means that the same gospel that saves us is the same gospel that sanctifies us.
So I would look for a gospel center preacher. I would look for a plurality of elders or some kind of structure and leadership that doesn't just have it resting on one man, nor that doesn't have it just resting on the congregation. But there's some type of qualified men who are making decisions for the church. I would look for a church that is incredibly mission-oriented, that understands that we must balance excellence with good enough in light of global lostness, that we need to restrain some of our resources here for what we could do to see them sent. Um, and to see them, you know, see people planted in contexts where there is very hard soil and the gospel is not there.
I would also be looking for a church that is very serious about the next generation, you know. I personally want to go to a church that prioritizes women and children and their discipleship in greater ways than it does just about anything else. Because, um, you know, you look at what the Bible calls a man to do to be one who is, you know, is responsible for those around him, like a good king, everybody around them flourishes. And that's what we want to do: is have a church that is set up for the flourishing of the weaker vessel and the children.
So, those are a few things off the top of my head, you know, that I would say I'd be looking for some of this stuff and to make sure that they're very solid on the word. You know, like I said, gospel centered, but even more than that, that they just hold an errancy to be really high and they want to preach what's in the book. We are people of one book, we need to know the book. Amen. He's a pastor.
He's on the radio with media. He's got a podcast. He's an author, a great book that you really is dedicated to your sweet daughter, Faith Ann. And I'll never forget her name because I have a daughter named Faith Ann. Tell us a little bit about it.
Give a shout out to your book, Chosen. Yeah, Chosen: Building Your Family the Way God Builds His. The premise of the book is: cute pictures, sad stories, and gut-wrenching statistics are not good enough reasons to adopt or foster. The church is called, I think, to jump in on adoption, foster care, but we need to do it from a solid motivation, and the gospel provides that motivation. When we realize what God has done for us, Choosing us, adopting us, that gives us the right motivation to go and adopt others.
So, the book Chosen is a small primer, 90-something pages, but it is laser-focused on the heart. Let's put the heart in the right position so that our actions can follow. Good website for folks to learn more about you. Of course, a lot of them listen to you on radio and are encouraged by that. What's a good website, folks, and find out more about your church planting, church growing, encouraging other pastors?
There's pastors that are like, hey, man, I feel like an island out here. They may want to join your alliance of churches that you're growing together. Yeah, I would go to three places. I would go to breakinggrowthbarriers.com, I would go to AndrewPhopper.com, and I would go to Mercyhillchurch.com. And between those three, you get a big picture of everything that we're doing.
There's never been a greater time for. For men of God to stand in the gap as pastors, as shepherds. Pastor Andrew Hopper, you've had pastors, you mentioned a couple of them earlier, that have spoken into your life strongly, sometimes correctively, sometimes, but with grace to build you into the man you are today. What's your word to pastors out there?
Some are struggling, some have congregations that are barely holding together, some are growing, and maybe they're, you know, reading their own headlines a little too much, right? But what would you challenge pastors? Give us a good get out of here, challenge to pastors right now. Yeah, whatever circumstance you find yourselves in, as hard as it is, we've got to understand that that doesn't change the fundamental truth about who we are and who God has called us to be. We could be in a feast or we could be in a famine, man, we're still sons of the living king if we're believers and we've got to live out of that identity.
You know, God sets the boundaries on growth and multiplication and all the stuff we want. Think about the book of Job. If God can set the boundary line of how far the ocean is going to come, He certainly sets the boundary on how large Mercy Hill Church is going to be. You know, I can't tie my identity to success in ministry, but to my status as a son of the king, and then go and live free. True top.
