Today I'm Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram. All of us have people in our lives that we love so deeply. but they're far from God and they're moving farther. Today we're going to talk about what you can actually do. Not theory, not concepts, but how do you reach into the heart and the life of the next generation and draw them back to the living Christ.
That's today on Living on the Edge. I'm Dave Druy and this is Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram. Last time, Chip sat down with his friend Aaron Pierce to help us understand just how differently this generation sees the world, what they believe about truth, morality, and God, and why. Today, they pick that same conversation back up, showing us exactly how to build the kind of real, patient friendship that actually opens the door to the gospel, even on the most difficult and divisive topics we face today. It's a special message titled, Equipping the Church to Reach the Next Generation.
So let's get started.
Well, it is a tremendous joy to have Aaron Pierce back with us today. You are sharing things that are so near and dear to the hearts of parents, grandparents, and pastors. I mean, everyone that cares about the next generation. This topic matters so much.
So, Aaron, thank you for being with us. It's good to be back. I'm honored to do it.
Okay, we're going to do something I've never done before, and I hope people will listen to more than the next sentence because I could get in a lot of trouble here. But I'd like to do something I've never done is I'd like to role play just for a minute. I'm 24 years old. I've abandoned the faith. I'm in a homosexual lifestyle.
I really just think that, you know, my truth is my truth. And I'm at a coffee shop. And by now I have a few symbols of the alternative lifestyle, whatever you think they are. And you walk in and maybe I'm involved in a big justice cause and we're rallying. We're going to make a difference in the world because the world's totally messed up.
And you meet me.
So What what are you how do you approach me? What kind of questions? Where do you go?
Well, again, first, it depends how well I know you, but my first thing is like, like, tell me how you're doing. How's life? What's what are you, what's going on in your world? And then I can go further and just start to ask questions about the things that you care about. You know, if you've been involved in a protest, like, okay, what are you doing?
What is the protest? What are you hoping to accomplish? How did you get involved in that? Help me understand your journey. You didn't arrive at these views just suddenly.
It came through a journey. Give me some concept. I want to understand your view. And then I want to find things that I can affirm. Like, you know what?
I really respect this about you. I respect that you see that the world is broken. And I want you to know I'm with you. I see it too, but I respect that you're not just standing by, you're not just kind of going about your life, you want to do something about it. And I respect that.
So, how can I find points of connection? How can I affirm the good I see in the life? Or how can I ask them about other things in the life? Like, you know, they're a human being. They've got struggles and brokenness.
You know, maybe they've got a broken relationship or maybe someone close to them has been diagnosed with cancer or maybe they're struggling with some mental health issues. Offer to pray. You know, can I pray for you? And even if they're not religious, they're not likely to reject it. They're going to say, man, I know that means you care.
And then praying for people for their felt needs. The question is, can you be a good friend? You know, can you follow the example of Jesus by becoming a friend of sinners? Can you intentionally pursue people in your sphere of influence that today are not following Jesus and engage in spiritual conversations, which is just an extension of a meaningful friendship? If you have meaningful friendships with people, you're going to ask more than just the weather and sports.
You're going to get into deeper things because you care. And then, if I'm really sharing my life with someone, they're going to know that I love Jesus, that He changed my life, that it's because of Him that I have peace in this broken world. And so, how can I do this in a way that's intentional, still requires courage and boldness and faith, but it makes sense in the context and it connects with people who probably, if my only way of engaging them is to pull out a gospel script or to invite them to church, which are all fine, those are good things to do, but there's a big segment of people, particularly younger people, that just won't connect with that. And if I could just make the last point, like the whole heart of this is how do I communicate Jesus in? in a relevant way.
And relevance does not mean watering it down. Relevance does not mean compromising theologically or morally. Relevance is about communicating in a way that people will understand. And then of course they have to make their own choices. But I think that's the distinction is we're trying to make Jesus accessible so they can understand who he is.
And again, people then have to make their choices from there. I think one of the observations that some really smart apologists have made is they've I think of Sean McDowell and others that are working with young people all the time, teaching at Biola, professor there. You know, he just said, you know, in times past, you could start because there was a common understanding. You could start with the truth and then explain grace. And today, we need to flip that.
You have to start with grace and help people see and understand. Back then, you had to win an argument.
Now you need to win a hearing. Your life and your care and your concern, and it's not either or. It's just a little bit different order.
Well, okay. Let's jump to a little bit different, more controversial side of things. Can I just add to that grace and truth thing? I think that's exactly right. I also think that the flip is in the past, you had to believe before you could belong.
Yes. And maybe even behave before you believe before you belong. And I think today we want to create spaces where people can belong before they believe. That's what our whole Bible study for the non-religious is about, is create a space for community. That they long for even before they believe.
So, I think that we're kind of, we're not saying that belief doesn't matter. We're not saying that truth doesn't matter. We're just saying that sometimes you have to approach it in a different way. And that means inviting people over for dinner. And even if you don't share the gospel or tell your testimony, it's a wonderful thing.
It's meeting for coffee, it's going in with five questions to say, You know, I read all about this loneliness epidemic. How are your friends dealing with all of that? What could I do to support them? Or to meet a need right then: hey, why don't we go inside and let me buy you a meal? Or, you know, I've got some friends that might be able to help you.
You talked about you need some work, whatever that is. Those practical things that build bridges that say, I don't just care. You know, 1 John 3.18 says, Let us not love with word or tongue, but indeed and truth. where you actually do something to help them. I think that's a really important part of this.
I want to shift gears because all this sounds kind of great in general. And then the politics comes up. Gender comes up. Homosexuality comes up. You mentioned the name of a political figure on the left or on the right.
What I loved most about the book, and I know you cover it in the small group resource, you actually talk about. Diving deep into those things in a way that don't alienate. Because you can't get around them in our world. I mean, you can't have a conversation where those things that immediately polarize and divide.
So give us a little insight about how do you do that? I'm at work. I work with a lot of people that have a very different view of life and God. I want to reach them, especially younger people. And these are the kind of things that are absolute discussion stoppers and relationship stoppers.
Could you give us, yeah, and you can't go through the whole small group resource, but could you give us some cues? How have you learned to navigate those controversial issues in a way that doesn't just kill the relationship? Yeah.
Well, it goes back to something you said earlier, Chip, which is that I think it starts with me. And have I got my priorities right? And the core here is that we don't make secondary things primary. Uh which is like the goal is for people to meet Jesus. And when they meet Jesus and they encounter the beauty of who he is, it's like that old hymn, you know, look onto Jesus, look full into his face and the things that this earth will grow strangely dim.
When you meet Jesus, everything else fades away. And so what happens, though, is when we take secondary things like our political ideology or even morality, which is a downstream impact of when I encounter Jesus and I trust him, then I submit myself to him. When I make those things primary and I put them in front of Jesus, I actually make it harder for people to see Jesus. And so the challenge is for me. That am I pointing people to Jesus or am I pointing them to something secondary that I've elevated to primary?
And I think that's the first thing to do. The second thing is to recognize that beneath the hostility and the conviction that people present when it comes to sexuality and politics and science and other things like that, actually right beneath that is an ocean. of brokenness and confusion. And so just not taking the bait, not looking to argue at that superficial level, but get deeper. Because in the end, politics is about peace.
It's about justice. It's about order in the world. It's about how do I respond to the brokenness?
Well, the gospel speaks clearly to those things. Sexuality ultimately is about belonging, intimacy, love, relationships, deep, meaningful things.
So rather than arguing at the superficial level, let's find places of connection at the deeper level and then. Point to how Jesus answers those things. And so I think it's reframing it that way. You're listening to Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram, and there's more coming up in just a moment. But first, stick around after today's teaching.
We'll tell you about a resource built to help you have real gospel-centered conversations with the people in your own life who feel far from God. It's called Not Beyond Reach, and it might be exactly what you need for that one relationship you've been praying about.
Well now back to today's lesson. Uh could you share a story of someone that You know, with regard to their morality, their politics, all the kind of things that the average person would say, there is no way that person's ever going to respond to Jesus. Could you tell us a story? In fact, I've read just a couple recently as I get your email and things. How this happens in someone's life.
Maybe, you know, we've talked about concepts that provide truth and a skeleton and some general direction, but maybe put some clothes on it. Maybe tell me a story that I could say, oh, so. And don't don't you know, I don't want you to uh you know reveal anything about a specific person that would you know not be appropriate but what whatever you're free to share that would really be helpful to people Yeah, I mean, I have so many. I remember, you know, I live in Minneapolis, so we've had a lot of political unrest over the years here, which of course that brings all sorts of challenges, but it also brings opportunities. And so when these challenges arise, our team tends to go and find places where we can connect with people.
And I remember one time connecting with a couple. They looked, you know, as, you know, they were very alternative dress, very, they kind of had the look of a very particular kind of political perspective. And the kind of perspective that often would see Christians as their enemy. And we went and talked to them, sat down and just had a conversation about why they were there and why their hearts were broken over this. And we just began to talk about the brokenness of the world.
And I've already alluded to it, which is like, you know, we see all this brokenness, but do you think that we're going to solve it with politics? And then inevitably they're like, no. And then you can go deeper and you're like, you talk about my own brokenness, the brokenness of the world, but what about my brokenness or the brokenness of my family? And You know, we all desire these intimate relationships, these are the conversations we're having. But, but why is it that we all experience relational brokenness and asking questions?
Do you think there's someone that will never hurt you or disappoint you? And they begin to open up and say, you know, I've experienced betrayal, I've experienced heartbreak, and then I can share, you know, I believe that God sees that, He sees your pain, He sees the cry of your heart, and He cries with you, and that He sent Jesus to bring healing, to bring forgiveness, to bring reconciliation, which is what we all require. And that actually Jesus is the answer to what you're looking for.
So, you know, at a political rally, I can talk about Jesus because He's the source to the greater brokenness, to the fundamental brokenness that we face. But there have so many other examples. I met with a guy, he was gay, we connected with him at an outreach, and he told me that he had a small business, he was an artist. And so, the thing is, even though the world tells you that their sexuality is their primary identity, it's not. People have all sorts of things that are going on in the life, and I don't have to just connect in that space.
So, I have a little bit of a business background. I said, Hey, let's meet and let me help you walk through your business plan. And so, we met for a coffee and we began to talk about his business plan, and we were talking various practical things. And then eventually, we moved to some topics, some spiritual topics, which is identity and purpose, which are critical to the whole sexuality topic. And I talked about, hey, you're starting this business, and starting a small business is hard.
Most fail, and you need to root yourself in an identity that won't be shaken by the storms that you're going to face. You need something that you can hold on to. Because if you put your identity in something that can be taken from you, then you're vulnerable to circumstances. And I shared how for me, my identity was found in the unconditional love of God, that I was a child of God, and that. That identity could not be taken from me.
And I had a conversation with this guy using business. Yeah, he was gay, but we talked about business that I could connect to identity and where we find our identity.
So conversations like that, we can have all the time. And we have many conversations like that.
Well, it takes time and it takes patience, and I think it's a long play that I think what we miss. And, you know, I happen to know a little bit about that story because you and I have talked before. And what you just described didn't happen the very first time you met him. I mean, you sat down in a circle while all the things were going on. You asked him why they were there.
You're motivated. Gosh, this, you know, you seem really, really angry about some things. And you listen to all their anger and why, and which politicians they hated and what was happening in the world and what was completely broken. And then you ask them some why questions, which led to some reoccurring relationships that built the kind of safety that you're talking about. And so I think for some of us, it just realizes we got to get out of our Christian cocoon and out of I go to church on this day, I live my life over here.
If you want to see people know Jesus. You have to go where they are. You have to make time. taken away from other things. And and for some of you that's your own kids.
And because they've rejected you, you're living in hurt.
Well, they rejected me.
Well, y and it's passive aggressive. And now you're rejecting them by not being engaged.
Well, I'm not going to go to that, and I'm not going to be involved in that. And guess what? The enemy is winning when that's your attitude. And it takes tremendous humility to grasp: hey, I may be right. But being right is not as important right now as having the right attitude and developing the right relationship as a bridge with absolutely no compromise to what I believe about Scripture, about Jesus, about salvation.
and it will require a cost. And I would just say To those listening, If you really care deeply about your own children and grandchildren. And if you are concerned about the world, and maybe especially America, since we're living here, and the movement that you see. The change doesn't happen by someone coming on a white horse.
Now, that will happen one day when the Lord returns, but it's going to happen one person at a time. One small group, one little group of friends, one community at a time who says, We refuse to continue to live the way we're living. We must build relationships. It makes us uncomfortable. We don't know exactly how to do it.
But we can't not do it. And I just want to say that you guys are modeling that. And I tell people this, Aaron, is I think you all are modeling that here and around the world. Um More effectively than anyone I know. I'm not saying there's other people that aren't doing it as well and great things happening.
Just in my personal experience, if anyone wanted to know how to reach the next generation, uh what you all actually do, not just talk about. The model that I see in the New Testament. In fact, the one thing you said was so interesting, when I watched your process. And you know, I'm sort of a Synthesizer, and so you know, I organized it in my mind, and you know, this is how you could communicate it and codify it, and here's how we'd be right about it. But I remember thinking, You guys just are doing what Jesus did.
and you are seeing the same results that Jesus had. And um The Bible's really clear. Not wishy-washy love, but love. Absolute. sacrificial, costly, other centered.
Desperate prayer, fervent prayer, Love never fails. And that's the hope that we have. And the resource that you all have put together, along with the book, the new small group resource, I think Dave will. tell everyone about how they can get that. Any final thoughts as we wrap things up here in terms of Talking to that especially, my heart goes out.
Your conversations are a little different age group. If I had $100 for every parent or grandparent that I've talked to that are shaking their head and in tears. I don't get it. I don't know what happened. As far as I knew, we were sincere, we were intentional, we did everything right.
How did we end up here? I would be a very, very, very rich person. And those people are hurting, Aaron. Yeah, I know. And um a lot of them are a part of who listening or do studies with Living on the Edge.
Could you give them just a word of hope as we wrap things up? Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I I guess I would say that Uh God sees your heart. And he sees your tears and he knows the grief. the confusion, the disappointment, and even the questions you've wrestled with. Maybe asking yourself, did I fail? Did I do something wrong?
I mean, these are real questions, and you're not alone in asking them. But I guess I want to encourage you with this, your child's story is not over. And God has not stopped working. Even when you don't see it, he is pursuing. I think that's what gives me so much hope: that God loves your child more than you love your child.
And he left the 99 to go after the one, and he continues to do that. And God is active and moving in the world. I can say it. I can testify it. We are seeing young Christian leaders raised up, fueling grassroots movement, reaching people like your kids right now.
that they are with them in the clubs, the cafes, the universities, the music festivals, the spaces where they are, befriending them and sharing Jesus. And we are seeing God moving. And so I just want you to know God is on the move. He is raising up a new generation of radical young people. And so, again, the encouragement here is: we are just one part of what God is doing.
You are one part of what God is doing. You don't have to hold it all together. It doesn't depend entirely on you. Do your part. You know, get on your knees and cry out to God.
Pursue your child. Meet them on their turf and respond to the promptings of the Holy Spirit. But ultimately, God is doing the work and he is on the move. And so our hope is not in ourselves. It's not in our perfect parenting.
It's not in having all the right answers. Our hope is in Jesus. And that's what gives me confidence. Amen. Thank you, Aaron.
You're listening to Living on the Edge, with a special discussion between our Bible teacher, Chip Ingram, and his good friend Aaron Pierce. Today's message is titled Equipping the Church to Reach the Next Generation, and it's part of our larger series called Caring Enough to Connect: Building Bridges to Those We Love.
Now, if you missed any part of today's conversation, you can easily catch up anytime at livingonthege.org. Aaron's advice to day was simple, but not easy. Go where lost people go, don't judge them, ask good questions and really listen. And let safety come long before you ever get to truth-telling. And that's exactly the kind of practical, field-tested wisdom Aaron unpacks in his book, Not Beyond Reach.
It walks you step by step from friendship to spiritual conversation to the gospel itself, without ever feeling like a script. You can get your copy right now at a special price by going to livingontheedge.org/slash offers. And if this conversation is exactly what your family, your small group, or your church needs, we invite you to stand with us financially today. Your gift helps keep teaching like this on the air and across digital media, reaching people who feel far from God all across the country. We've made it easy to give online.
Just go to livingontheedge.org or call and give over the phone by dialing 888-333-6003. You can also send your gift by mail to LivingOnTheEdge, P.O. Box 3007, Swanij. Georgia 30024.
Now let me hand things over to Chip Ingram as we wrap up this impactful discussion. Thanks so much, Dave. You know, today we've talked about a very different way to reach the next generation. And Aaron did it so naturally. It's what he does, it's where he's been, starting this conversation, building rapport, talking about these kinds of issues.
That doesn't come naturally to most of us. We have answers we want to give. If you want to learn how to really connect with your child, your young adult, your grandchild, or as a pastor you want to develop something that reaches the next generation in your church, let me tell you, the tool you need to get is this not beyond reach small group resource. It is designed to help you personally, your group, or your church actually do what we talked about. Let me encourage you, don't think about it, actually do it.
You'll be glad you did. Once again, you can find Erin's book, Not Beyond Reach, by going to livingontheedge.org/slash offers.
Well next time Chip returns to his own teaching on what it actually takes to build great relationships. Join us then here on Living on the Edge. Wow. Today's program is produced and sponsored by Living on the Edge. Uh
