Today I'm Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram. As you listen today, if there is someone in your life that's drifted away from the Lord, in fact, maybe they're actually hostile. Maybe they're your son or one of your grandchildren. If that's you, there's hope. Today, we're going to talk about not just the next generation, but the people that you love.
Stay with me. I'm Dave Druy and this is Living on the Edge. In our series, Caring Enough to Connect, Building Bridges to Those We Love, we've been learning what it takes to build real relationships in a broken world. Today, Chip Ingram sits down for a special conversation with his good friend Aaron Pierce, who leads a global ministry called Steiger International, spending decades reaching secular, non-religious young people all over the world with the gospel. Together, they'll help us understand how this generation really thinks and why the people you love are never beyond God's reach.
Such an important message. Let's get started now. Here's Chip Ingram.
Well, thanks so much, Dave. We do have a really special guest and a very close friend. And Erin, tell us a little bit about your journey, just for those that may not be familiar with you or our relationship. Chip, it's just an honor to be on this call with you and to talk with you and just to serve with you. And I've always been so grateful for you and the influence you've had on my life.
You know, like I always considered you a mentor even before I knew you. And so you've had a big influence on my life. And yeah, so I grew up as a missionary kid in Amsterdam. And you've met my parents and they were missionaries in Amsterdam. They had a heart to reach young people that wouldn't walk into a church, which if you consider a city like Amsterdam, that's pretty much all young people.
And they see these big, beautiful cathedrals that are often closed on Sunday and they're museums. And so many people, they just view the church as a tradition of the past, not relevant to my life. And you find that a lot of people living in this secular culture, it, you know, for some of them, religious ideas, it's just kind of they're apathetic to it. It doesn't really, they don't think about it all that much.
Some are even cynical or hostile, and yet many are very. Open to spirituality of various kinds, and there's all kinds of spiritual expressions that people draw to. And so, in that environment, I just saw a secular culture where people who might not walk into a church on a Sunday and yet were still hungry for the very things that Jesus brings. And so, that idea of how do we bring the gospel, which is as relevant today, to a culture that often thinks it's not. And that was the environment I grew up in as a kid and got to see God move and change lives.
And it kind of ruined me in a really good way because I saw that Jesus is real and He changes lives. And so, yeah, that was the context that then led me to lead this mission called Steiger that's that's mobilizing followers of Jesus to reach young people who would not walk into a church.
So, now you have teams that are reaching young people in how many cities around the world now? It's over 275 cities, which is wild because when you were with us a few years ago, It was about 90. And so we've just seen tremendous growth over the last few years, an explosion of a move of God reaching young people around the world.
Well As we now say that and say, wow, there's spiritual hunger and God's really, really working, I'm going to talk to parents and grandparents. who are sitting in a little bit different situation, who um Their kids went to a Christian school, they went to a youth group, they either went away to college or there was a gradual drift. They're late teenagers, they're middle 20s, they're some in early 30s now. They want nothing to do with God, often nothing to do with their parents.
Some have not only drifted from the faith, some have rejected, some have deconstructed. More than a cultural trend, you saw this as a genuine crisis. Yeah.
Well, you know, like you, Chip, I get the opportunity to preach at churches and conference and events all over the world, and including here in the U.S. And after I preach, I would have a line of parents and grandparents coming to talk to me with Tears in their eyes talking about their young adult child. And honestly, the volume and consistency of their story, most now seeming to be involved in LGBTQ as well. And just all of that, there was just so much pain and so much heartache and also a sense of not knowing what to do that God began to break my heart for these parents and grandparents and just saying, God, we got to serve them, we got to equip them. And so this went from statistics and trends to something deeply personal for me because of the stories that I was hearing from these parents and grandparents.
Well, let me pause for a moment here, and I want you to invite a parent or grandparent who feels like, you know, I don't think there's any hope. They won't talk to me, or, you know, I don't bring up religion anymore at all. I can't even talk about Jesus, and I don't get it. I don't understand. Not saying that their sons and daughters who've drifted or are deconstructing are right.
But could you like invite them to sit down at a table just with you and me, maybe picture a cup of coffee, and would you help? them understand how their kids and grandkids are thinking, how they view the world that is so different than their parents. Help that parent or grandparent understand. And by the way, if you're a parent or grandparent and you're thinking, oh, please speak, could I ask you to lean back right now?
Some of this feels very painful.
Some of you have dealt with a lot of anger, others with a lot of guilt. Our goal here is we got to build some bridges. And to do that, we need to step back a little bit and discover what they're feeling, how they're thinking. Not saying it's always right or true by any means, but if you don't understand, that prayer that I pray often by St. Francis, where he says, Lord, grant that I may seek to understand more than to be understood.
Seek that I may love more than to be loved. That idea of empathy, help us. What do you hear from these kids? I mean, you meet them on the streets, you met them at LGBT rallies, you've met them in places that most Christians never go, and you hear their stories. Help that parent or grandparent.
You nailed it, which is, I think, so often in this context, we're looking to tell people the answer rather than first to understand. And I actually think, in order to really communicate Jesus effectively, we need to know. What they're thinking, what's influencing them. And so we live in a culture this generation that is quite distinct from a few generations ago. And the voices and influences that's shaping how they see the world.
Essentially, the main, like, you know, 2 Corinthians 4:4 says, the God of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers. The God of this age is what I would describe as secular humanism. And it's this idea that God has been replaced. It's, and I am at the center. I'm God.
And there's no outside authority. that can tell me how to live my life. It's the era of my truth. And all identity Purpose and morality is self-constructed. You know, in the Christian worldview, we discover those things because God designed those things.
In the secular world, I design it, I develop it, I decide who I am, I decide what's right and wrong, I decide the purpose for my life, and it sounds liberating. It sounds like freedom, but the truth is, this worldview is actually quite destructive. It's like poison wrapped in bubblegum. It looks all sweet and shiny on the outside, but it's actually destroying people. It's like it says in Proverbs 16, 25: there's a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.
And so, what we have is this culture that's telling people it's all about you. There are no rules. The rules are fake. Just do what you want. Do what makes you feel good.
And so, what we have instead of freedom, we're finding bondage. We have a culture that is confused. That's sexually broken, lonely, anxious, depressed. This is the felt need of our culture. And what's interesting is, secular culture does not deny those things.
They just don't have a good answer to them.
So, this is all that's going on, and there's so much confusion. Like, take the topic of love. You know, we all, of course, we have this innate desire for love and intimacy. It's how God wired us. But our culture is incredibly confused about love.
Because on one hand, you have hookup culture where, you know, sex is basically just a physical act for pleasure. And apart from consent, there's no moral guidance. And so just do what makes you happy. You got that on one side. And then on the other side, in the same breath, we're looking for the one.
That will complete us, that will satisfy all our needs and desires, that person that will fill the emptiness. And so, you got these two extremes that people believe about love. No wonder we're confused. No wonder we're broken. And so, I think the response to all of this shouldn't be, what's wrong with you?
How dumb could you be? But rather, it should be like Jesus, which is to have compassion on those that are confused, which is really what I would say that's the state of our culture: we're confused. And so, this is the air that people are breathing today. And then you add to that a general skepticism towards authority and towards like religious institutions. And so, even though Jesus has the answers.
to what they are looking for, they're not looking to the church.
So part of it is just recognizing the cultural moment that we're in and how do we now communicate Jesus in that context. And that's what I want to talk about, because I think when I was with your team and as we built time together, one of the reasons that we partnered together to develop the book, Not Beyond Reach, is what I saw was, maybe this is part of my giftedness, is I saw that you all literally had. A very clear process that you walked people through that you were so close to it, you almost didn't see it. I mean, but it was so clear, and I thought, oh my, first of all, they go where lost people go. Second, they don't judge them, they ask questions and they listen.
Third, you all would have spiritual conversations that everyone has: loneliness, and what's life all about, and what's your purpose with no judgment, and often with a bottle of water or a meal. And then you would have Bible studies for non-Christians. You could ask anything, no pushing, and yet, what you did is you built safety, and then you asked them questions that Honestly, in their confusion, they couldn't really answer, but they felt loved and it was safe, and they were now open to do something they hadn't done before. Instead of packaging Jesus with religion, or this is what my parents believe, or this is connected to some political figure, or some building, all of a sudden, you were introducing them to the Jesus of the New Testament in a very safe way. But you built a lot of bridges, and then you had that gospel conversation.
You let them understand that the root issue is sin for all of us, that there is a Savior, there is hope. And so, you know, that book was to codify that. You're listening to Living on the Edge with Chip Ingram, and there's more coming up in just a moment. But first, stick around after today's teaching. We'll tell you about a resource built to help you have real gospel-centered conversations with the people in your own life who feel far from God.
It's called Not Beyond Reach, and it might be exactly what you need for that one relationship you've been praying about.
Well now back to today's lesson. Let me say this. Mary's 22 years old. She doesn't talk to her parents anymore. She's in an alternative lifestyle.
And her parents feel like, I just can't get through to Mary anymore. Or you can make it George, who's 24. You're sitting down with them They have some alternative sort of symbols around that let you know: this is my new identity. Would you help a parent Listen to you sit down, and could you just have a conversation with that person? Maybe you notice, I often do this one, you notice a tattoo that you know has some symbolism, and I will often say something, wow, that's an interesting tattoo.
Tell me a little bit about that, which is a completely different approach than why they got that stuff, you know.
So, help that parent understand what you actually say. Because I want to talk about a resource that we have for them, but I think they need to hear.
Okay, it's confusing, the world's messed up, but they're living in pain. How do you go about connecting with this person that would model for them how they could go about doing it? Yeah, well, I think the complexity here is distinct when it comes to parents and grandparents because the dynamic can get a little more emotional. It can get a little more, there's more going on. And so, one of the things I would say is there is this tendency to want to rush in with the answers and here, look at this article, or you know, the Bible says this, and kind of come in hot with your answers.
And I think, obviously, the truth is truth, and people need to hear the truth. But I think when it comes to kids, parents and grandparents interacting with their kids, often I think that the key is that you need to be a relationally present in their life. What the enemy wants to do is to divide and to disconnect and isolate. And I think what you need to do is first and foremost, show them with your actions. That even if you don't agree with their lifestyle, even if you don't agree with their choices, you love them.
And nothing is going to change that. And you will pursue them and meet them on their turf. And part of what you're doing is you're challenging some lies that they believe, that they're going to be rejected, that you don't love them, or your love is conditional. And part of that is you're softening the ground for work that the Lord can do. And I think, you know, I've been meditating on this idea of the aroma of Christ and this idea that when the Holy Spirit is inside of us, the fruit of the Spirit really draws people.
And I think God can do work in people's hearts even before we communicate the words. And while I'm a big believer in preaching the words, often with parents and grandparents, the first thing is we need to make sure we're solidifying the relational bonds because I think that's one of the ways that the enemy can, you know, sets us apart, disconnects us.
So that would be my first point. The other thing is like we need to recognize that what they believe is not simply a matter of logic and persuasion. There is a spiritual reality going on. I already quoted. 2 Corinthians 4:4, the God of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers.
So, what we're dealing with is spiritual blindness. And all my apologetic arguments and all my persuasion is not enough if they are spiritually blind. And that is why prayer is not just this nice Christian activity that we do or a warm-up to the real work. Prayer is essential.
So, I would say, start with. engaging, building the relational bond, and praying in a new way. Because God's got to do something supernaturally for my words to matter at all. And so I would start with those two places and then pray also that God would bring about circumstances and people around them that could reintroduce them to Jesus. Because I would suggest that in most cases, the parents or the grandparents are not going to be the one that God uses to bring Jesus back to them.
And so it's kind of this surrender there.
Well, I saw the process when I was doing some training in Germany, but I never will forget. And our new president, he's not new anymore, he's been with us three years. Mike and I were there together, and you broke up into groups into regions, different regions of the world, and said, we're going to pray now. And, you know, I thought, okay, yeah, okay.
So, you know, we knelt down and got in circles and.
So we started to pray.
Well You know, I was used to how other Christians pray. You know, Lord, you know, help us, blah, blah, blah.
Well, you know, I mean, we're 45 minutes into it, we're an hour into it. And I'm listening to young people plead with God, intercede, fasting, crying out. There was a level of passion and intensity because they had been there. They had been lost. They had been blind.
And I want to say something as a pastor and as a parent, as a grandparent. This is going to be hard for some of you to hear.
Some of the issue is not with your kids.
Some of the issue is with you. You need to ask yourself. Are you living an authentic life? Is church something you just go to? Are you in God's word?
Are you passionate? Do you want your life to work out? Are you a consumer? Or are you the kind of Christian that really reveals Christ? And I don't mean this as some big.
You know, guilt trip. I'm just saying you can't change other people, but you can look into your own heart, your own life, and say, God, Start with me. Take away the pain, the hurt, the calluses, the rejection, the part where you want to pay them back, all those. All those tapes about, you know, they're so ungrateful, they don't remember all the things I did for them, you know, I paid for the college, I did this, I made these sacrifices, all that may be true, but those may be the very barriers, and some of that is self-righteousness, and some of it is you wanted good, moral, nice kids. that may be the living Christ.
Needs to be living more deeply in your heart and your life, and you begin to say, Oh God. Oh God Ugh. I long for my child or my grandchild to fully, completely return to you, or maybe to really meet you for the first time. But here's where I want to start. whatever I need to see.
whatever I need to address in my own life. whatever sin, whatever perspective, O God, speak and work in me first. that I might be a tool in your hands. to reach my son, my daughter, or one of my grandkids. And I don't mean that harshly.
I've been around this for a long time, Erin, and I've seen where the transformation occurs. I have multiple friends whose kids are in alternative lifestyles, and the ones who have seen, and sometimes it's been a decade, they're one that's been two decades. He just wouldn't stop loving his daughter. And yes, she got married to another woman. They adopted kids.
And then over time, when you sow to the flesh, you do reap corruption. And those relationships break down, and there's times of pain. And the people they come back to are ones that they can respect and who've loved them. He never changed his view of theology. There were always clear boundaries, but he wouldn't stop loving her.
And in the midst of the pain, the breakup, the relationship, the challenges with the kids, she turned to come to him to say, Dad, I need your help. And he was there. And he just kept building bridges and it's Honestly, Received a lot of rejection along the way, not only from her, but from brothers and sisters and other people who said, Hey, you know, you can't take that stance, you just need to change your theology. And yet, People know down deep in their heart who they can trust. And that's built on what you've talked about.
And that's been the whole process of not only the book, but now the new video and small group resource to help parents, grandparents, and pastors really learn. There is a new way to reach people and it's not telling them a bunch of facts of what they need to believe. Yeah, and you'd exactly nailed the heart of this. And then, yeah, there are times to talk, but it's what we teach in the book is you go from these relational, loving, friendship conversations, which Jesus modeled, by the way, right? Jesus was a friend of sinners.
Like that was one of the great accusations against Jesus. And so he demonstrated that you can love people and not affirm the sin in their life, which is what he did. But then how do I engage in spiritual conversations that serve as a bridge? to Jesus. And how do I take the everyday things of life that we wrestle with, that we have questions about, and ask questions and create an environment where people can have these conversations.
And we've seen that over and over. It opens people's hearts to Jesus. You're listening to Living on the Edge with a message titled Understanding the Global Youth Culture, part of our series Caring Enough to Connect, Building Bridges to Those We Love. If you missed any part of today's conversation between Chip Ingram and Aaron Pierce, be sure to catch up when you can by going online to livingonthege.org. And if today's conversation raised more questions than it answered, that's exactly the point.
There's much more coming up, so stick with us as we continue this impactful study. And to be sure you never miss a message, subscribe to the Living on the Edge podcast to catch every conversation wherever you listen. Aaron grew up as a missionary kid in Amsterdam, watching secular young people who were spiritually hungry but had already written off the church. And that's exactly what led him to write Not Beyond Reach. It's not a theory book.
It's a practical guide for anyone who loves someone who's drifted from the faith, showing you how to move from friendship to spiritual conversation to the gospel itself. Purchase your copy today at livingonthege.org slash offers. And if today's conversation stirred something in you, we encourage you to act on that by sending a donation to help this ministry keep reaching people who feel far from God. Give online today at livingonthege.org or call us at 888-333-6003. You can also send your gift by mail to LivingOnTheEdge, P.O.
Box 3007, Swanee, Georgia, 30024.
Well, now here's Chip Ingram to close out this really special message. Dave, thanks so much. You know, we have covered some issues. That are near and dear to all of our hearts, and some that have created much, much pain. But I want to remind you there are answers and there are solutions.
And there's some action to take. If you really care, let me encourage you to get the small group resource. There are videos that you can do privately, way better to do in a small group.
Some of you need to introduce this to your pastor. We can't keep talking about reaching the next generation unless we do something.
So let me encourage you: don't just be moved, be moved to action. The Bible's really clear. When we hear truth, it's how we respond to it that makes a difference. Dave, why don't you give them a few details on how they can get it? Happily.
Once again, the book is called Not Beyond Reach, and it's available at livingonthege.org/slash offers.
Well next time, Chip and Aaron continue their conversation, showing us exactly what the next generation believes and how you can reach them with the hope of the gospel. Join us again right here on Living on the Edge. Uh Oh. Today's program is produced and sponsored by Living on the Edge. Uh
