Welcome to Passion for Christ, a ministry of Utah Partnerships for Christ. In Acts 26, 18, Jesus said, Paul's purpose was to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God. That they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. We hope you'll join us for today's testimony of lives changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now let's begin today's episode. Welcome to Passion for Christ. This is Russ East, your host. I'm with my friend Sandra Tanner. Sandra, thank you for being on Passion for Christ again.
I just wanted our listeners to. get an understanding of what it's like To go from being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to becoming a Christian. And so, maybe for some people, it's their first time even tuning into a program like ours where we interview people who have. Come into a saving relationship with the true Jesus of the Bible from the Mormon church.
Now, some people might say, well, wait a minute, didn't you just say the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Isn't that a Christian church? I wanted to ask you, Sandra. Wh when you were Mormon, Would you say that you In comparison to your understanding today of what the Mormon Church believes. What percentage of that d do you think that you really grasped grasped at the time when you were a an active, faithful Mormon?
Well, I'm a little confused by which thing you were asking me.
Well, how much Mormonism would you say that you really understood, you know, that you were a part of? And as far as their doctrines and things, like 10%, 50% compared to what you know now?
Well, I probably only knew 25% of. actual Mormon doctrine. Right, right. And that's would you say that's kind of a typical situation that you find, you know, in in your ministry that with Mormons generally just maybe maybe don't really understand all that their church teaches?
Well, back when I was a Mormon years ago, The LDS church was A little more forthright about their doctrines that differed from standard Christianity. I find that in today's world, that the LDS church has uh stop being as specific and has tried to adopt more Christian Phrasing That confuses people into thinking that Mormonism is closer to Christianity than it really is. Uh the Mormons will often Respond to a Christian talking to them that, oh, we believe in the same Jesus, we believe in the same God. And some of the Mormons may really believe that that's the case, but that's because they don't understand. what Mormonism is saying and they don't understand what Christianity is saying.
In regard to the nature of God or Christ, because they are totally different concepts. Right, right. And that's interesting. That's kind of case in point. I wonder if, like, as if, as in today, At our church, at our local church in Utah, there's a very nice couple that comes to our church routinely, and they're with the Interfaith Council.
And they're members of the Mormon Church, and they invited people from our leadership at our church to go to the temple opening in Leighton. And we did send a couple people, one person in particular, and then some of his family went along and did the tour of the opening of the Mormon temple. And so I think, and I've invited him to come and join me at our Bible Museum at our little ministry house here in Ogden.
So pray for that, everybody. Pray for that, because I'm really hoping that by sharing about the trustworthiness of the Bible, it's just going to, you know, it's great that the Mormons, in a sense, are sending their people to our local churches, but. Would you say that 25 years plus going back, did they have the interfaith council and things like that, Sandra? Was the Mormon church sending out? Representatives to go to local churches and kind of build, try to build some relationships and things.
No, thirty years ago the Mormon Church was not trying to Make inroads into being accepted as part of the standard Christian community. When I was growing up a Mormon, we were very proud to say we are not part of the Protestant world. We were neither Protestant nor Catholic. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which was the only true church. And they still believe they're the only true church, so that they don't believe that anyone else has authority to baptize.
or marry or do communion or anything else. uh truly as God would be pleased with. And yet today they try to paint it out like, oh, yeah, we're all on the same team. Even though they use similar words, their definitions are very different. It's interesting, you mentioned going.
to uh the LDS temple open houses. One of the things I find curious is that they don't seem to understand to a Christian, This is adding to the gospel. That if we, according to the Bible, if we have accepted Christ as our Lord and Savior. We have eternal life, and we see that in. First, uh John Chapter five, where it talks about that if we have the Son, we have life, we have eternal life.
And yet, in Mormonism, That isn't enough for eternal life. The Mormon believes they have to also. Go to the Mormon temple and be sealed in ordinances in that building. Besides Christ's atonement, in order to have eternal life, So, although we love our Mormon neighbors and friends, and we're glad that they want to talk about Jesus. The problem is, they have a whole different understanding of what it means to trust in Christ.
eternal life. Right, right. You know, I just got back from a trip to Greece. The Lord allowed me to go because I'm hoping to take groups to Greece in the future, like say next year, like footsteps of Paul. And I got to go to the Acropolis where the big, old, huge Parthenon still stands today.
And it's this big temple where they used to have a big statue of Athena, you know. And it's sad because today there's this man on the top of most 99% of all the Mormon temples, and his name was Moroni, and he became an angel. And he's with like gold-plated metallic coloring, and he's got a trumpet. And he's, you know, he's up there on top of this temple, these big, huge buildings like you were talking about in Leighton that just opened up. And it just, it just made my heart just get, I don't know, lots of different emotions went through me because.
Because even today, temples These rituals, and it all comes from masonry, as we know, and all this stuff, which is so opposite of just the idea of like what's on my sticker on my laptop, and it's something that the Adams Road ministry guys they put together these stickers, and it says, Jesus is enough. For the life of me, I just want to pull my hair out, what I have left, and I just want to say, Dear Lord. You know, this temple building is such an assault in the face of God for what he did on the cross. Isn't that so true, Sandra? Yes, and I think the fact that they put the angel Moroni statue on the top of their temples.
Shows how they're real message is that the Mormon gospel Is the epitome of what God wants of us. That they're promoting Mormonism by having that statue there. That's the man that supposedly, as an angel, brings to Joseph Smith. the Book of Mormon record and the Book of Mormon record to them. is paramount.
Uh Greater importance in their minds than the Bible. In fact, the Mormons have other books of scripture, the doctrine and covenants that pull a great price. And so these three scriptures. The Book of Mormon, the Doctrine of Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, those three scriptures are more important to a Mormon than the Bible. And so that when we show them Bible verses, in their mind, they're dismissing them by in their mind saying to themselves, well, that's okay as far as it goes, but too bad you, the Christian.
Only have a small part of the gospel. You need all these other books to have a full understanding of God. And that's where we see them adding to the gospel of Christ. The Bible isn't enough for the Mormon, they have to have their Mormon. Profit leaders And their preaching and their words to have the full understanding of what it means to have eternal life.
So the Christian looks at that and says, This is heresy. You are adding to the gospel. And the Mormons will say to me, oh, no, we're not adding to the gospel. We're just giving more light. But that is adding to the gospel.
And when they say more light, it contradicts the light that we have in the Bible. Right, right. Well, listen, if If you're out there right now and you are even considering becoming a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, maybe the Mormon missionaries have come to your door. Stay with us. Stay tuned here and keep listening because Sandra's going to share now for just a few minutes, just going to give you a sense of what it was like for her to come out of the Mormon church, a strong LDS family.
And so if you need material, if you need to talk, if you need to have like a conversation, just go to our website, upfc.org. We'll be right back for the rest of today's testimony. Please know we at Utah Partnerships for Christ have been planting seeds of the gospel in Utah for over 24 years. We welcome any questions you may have and invite you to visit our website to obtain a list of words and definitions that would help you understand how Mormons think and how to be able to better witness to your friends who belong to the Mormon Church. That website is www.upfc.org.
That's upfc.org. We'll be right back. Welcome to Passion for Christ, a ministry of Utah Partnerships for Christ. In Acts 26, 18, Jesus said, Paul's purpose was to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God. That they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
We hope you'll join us for today's testimony of lives changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now let's begin today's episode. Just go to our website, upfc.org, find me, send me an email, give me a call, my cell phone. Here's my cell, 801-645-7433. That's 801-645-7433. And I'll get lunch with you.
If you're a lady, I'll bring my wife and we'll just talk about what's going on in your life right now. And so, Sandra, tell us what was going on in your life. Excuse me, when When The gospel was presented to you maybe. In the very beginning, and how was your response? And then, and then maybe as you're telling that, I'm hoping our listeners might.
Be patient, you know. Keep that in mind as you're sharing. It didn't happen overnight for you to become a Christian, did it? It took a little bit of time.
So, what was that first question? What were those first couple instances of of somebody sharing the gospel with you? Are you hearing about the truth?
Well, when I was in the eighth grade, and this is down in Southern California, I mean, I was born in Salt Lake, but I wasn't. I was raised in Southern California where I had plenty of Christians all around me. And I still didn't understand the difference.
Okay, so in eighth grade, this little Christian girl comes up to me and she says, Sandra, I understand you're a Mormon. And I said, yes. And she says, what do the Mormons believe about God? And I thought about that a minute, and then I remembered a phrase that I was taught in Mormon Sunday School. And in their primary classes.
As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.
Now you have to think about that a minute, what the Mormon is saying when they tell you this phrase. As man is, God once was. That's telling you the Mormons don't believe God has always been God. that he at one time was a human on some other world.
So as man is, God once was, he was once, just like us. And as God is, man may become. And that is saying they believe that man over time can learn enough in the eternities to come. To where he eventually could advance to the position of a god himself.
So let me say this again. As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.
That was a phrase said by a Mormon apostle, Lorenzo Snow. And I was taught that as a child as the definition of God. This little Christian girl looked at me horrified and said, Sandra, that's blasphemy. And she walked away.
Now, I don't recommend that you go around telling everyone what you believe is blasphemy. But But this was just my experience. But the fact that she challenged me on the nature of God bothered me. And I wasn't mad at her. I knew she was sincere in her request of what the Mormons believed.
It just left me wondering, why did she think that was so horrible?
So that was the first seed of something stirring in the back of my mind. What is the true reality about God.
Well, then you move up a couple of years, and my mother started having questions about Mormonism. My folks were married in the Salt Lake Temple from. fifth generation Mormon families. But she started to have questions.
So she started to confront me when I'm a senior in high school that there are problems in Mormonism, everything doesn't check out. This prepared the way for when I met Gerald, my future husband, who also was a fifth-generation Mormon. He had started to have questions about. Different aspects of Mormonism, whether it was really the same as the Bible would teach. And when I met him, we started dating, and he shared with me his problems, and he shared with me that.
He was seeing that the Christian God of the Bible wasn't the same as the God presented in Mormonism. And then he started talking to me about the difference of eternal life. as a Christian or as a Mormon. And through these discussions, I came to realize that I was basing my beliefs all on Mormon sources and not the Bible itself. But Gerald and I still, even after we got married, we still believed the Book of Mormon, even though we left Mormonism, gave up the Mormon belief of God, gave up the Mormon belief of temple work.
And all those things. But we still thought, well, maybe God brought out the Book of Mormon, and maybe we could believe it in the Bible.
So it took us Three more years before we realize the Book of Mormon didn't make it as a historical book, and there was nothing to support it as. A real record of real people, and we came to see it as a novel fiction that Joseph Smith wrote.
So We set that aside and went back to just following the Bible. But so that we're talking over several years. for this all to come to full. circle to get us back to just the Bible.
So I would say to people, When you have Mormon friends that you love and you want to talk to them about the Lord. You have to realize you're planting seeds. And you Just like when you plant your tomato plant, you can't keep pulling it up to see how the roots are growing. You got to leave it in the ground to grow, and so it is with someone coming along out of false belief. You keep watering the seed, God makes it grow, and God will bring into their mind.
Those things that they need to deal with. In the falseness of what they've been raised, as you're faithful in your love and your sharing with them. But you can't expect they immediately are going to understand. Mormonism uses a different Definition of the major Christian words. We have to learn.
How to explain our faith in ways that are simple enough to the Mormon that they can see the difference. Oh, by the way, I keep saying Mormon, that's an old habit. The Mormon, well, I grew up, everyone was proud to be a Mormon, and nowadays the LDS church has told their people to quit saying Mormon.
So that gets a little confusing with people.
So sorry for any LDS that are listening. I was raised Mormon and we always use that phrase. Right. Right. Well, thank you.
Right, excellent. Yeah, exactly.
So please just know that Sandra's ministry for many, many years, they've been kind to give us some of their materials as they're in a different phase and season of their ministry that continues to move. Because of all the work that they've done in research and publications, you name it, just pioneers in this ministry of love to reach those who are of the Mormon church. Yeah, I really wonder if there's somebody listening out there right now who's maybe a Mormon and they're struggling. You know, they're trying to reach that celestial degree of glory. And for the Christians, you never heard that before.
Maybe, Sandra, could you just go over really quick what do I mean when I'm talking about, because me, you know, being Mormon before, I have a little understanding of the three degrees of glory that they talk about. But to help the Christians understand when you're sharing your testimony with a Mormon, which is such a good idea, you know, do that when they come to the door, the missionaries and everything. Share your testimony with them and give them the gospel, but understand a little bit about their concept of heaven. Would you want to just share a little bit about what that's all about? Yes.
In the LDS faith, they believe that Christ's atonement. makes it possible for practically everyone go to heaven. But to them, heaven. Is a broad category that's divided into three different kingdoms. And it It depends on how faithful a Mormon or Christian or what a good person you were, what kingdom you will get.
So, when we're talking to a Mormon, it's not a matter of For instance, saying if you died today, would you go to heaven? The average Mormon believes he will go to heaven. What he struggles with is that he doesn't know for sure that he's going to have eternal life, because eternal life to them is different than being saved or going to heaven.
So, you focus in on eternal life, not whether the person saved or going to heaven. but eternal life. Eternal life for them is being a Mormon, baptized in the LDS faith, being faithful in it, and then they believe you will go to the highest level of heaven, which is called the celestial kingdom. And that's reserved for just Mormons. You have to be LDS, baptized in the LDS faith to go to the highest level.
The next level down is the terrestrial kingdom. And they believe that good people of the world. That didn't become Mormon will go to that kingdom.
So, all the nice Christians out there that are talking to the LDS person about Jesus, the LDS person. Sees you as someone who will go to heaven, but you will be in a lower kingdom than them. You will be in this sub-level.
Now, if you're a bad person, you still get to go to heaven. but you will go to the telestial kingdom. That's the bottom level. And you don't have to do anything to go to the telestial kingdom. You can be a murderer, rapist, drug dealer, whatever, and you still will get to go to heaven and go to the telestial kingdom.
But to the Mormon, their goal is to get to the top level, the celestial kingdom. And even that is divided into three levels, and only those in the very top level of the celestial kingdom will eventually go on to become a god.
So there is all this effort that has had to be put into obedience to all of Mormonism. to achieve the very best that God has for them.
So our goal as a Christian is to share with them. That forgiveness in Christ gives us eternal life, there aren't these three levels. You have eternal life. Through the atonement of Christ. And we see that in First John, where It says that we have that confidence in chapter five that we can know that we have eternal life because we have the Son.
Right. That is the promise that when I was first Coming to an understanding of grace and Christ, I was listening to a Christian radio station. And the minister came on preaching. And from 1 John chapter 4. Verse 10, where it says, Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
See in the Mormon mind They don't see themselves as lost and outside of the kingdom of God. They see themselves as just someone who has done some bad things, and they got to do the Mormon right things in order to get to that highest level of heaven. But they would feel that uh anybody on the street can go to heaven It's but you gotta do all the the LDS requirements to get to the highest level. Christianity is saying. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and we all have to ask for Christ's forgiveness.
And then what he has promised us is eternal life. That's why Jesus says on the cross at the end. It is finished. because he has completed the work of God to Redeem us from eternal death and bring us into his kingdom of eternal life. And the whole of, like in the first John, where it talks about that.
If we confess our sins. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. And what a wonderful promise. For the LDS person, for the Baptist person, for the Lutheran person, for the Muslim, whatever, that all of us have sinned. But we come to Christ for forgiveness and the gift we get.
Is eternal life. It's not something we've earned, it is a gift of God.
Well tell you what, I can't really add much more to that.
So I I want to just thank you for for sharing with us your testimony. How the Lord saved you, and just these really wonderful nuggets. If you're trying to reach the Mormon people out there, get in contact with us, and we'll pass on the materials that we have that will encourage you and so forth.
So, thank you, Sandra, for being with us on Passion for Christ. I really appreciate it. Before we sign off for today, please know that all of us here at Utah Partnerships for Christ appreciate your prayers and support. We are also available to do Zoom call workshops or personal coaching on reaching Mormons for Christ. Contact us today at upfc.org.
That's upfc.org. Thanks so much for joining us on another edition of Passion for Christ.
