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Big Legal Cases On The Outlaw Lawyer this week Supreme Court and Abortion, Depp v Heard

Outlaw Lawyer / Josh Whitaker & Joe Hamer
The Truth Network Radio
May 13, 2022 5:00 pm

Big Legal Cases On The Outlaw Lawyer this week Supreme Court and Abortion, Depp v Heard

Outlaw Lawyer / Josh Whitaker & Joe Hamer

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May 13, 2022 5:00 pm

This week on The Outlaw Lawyer, Josh and Joe welcome fellow Whitaker & Hamer attorney Cassandra Nicholas to discuss the latest on the biggest legal cases. Supreme Court and Abortion, Depp v Heard and the artist Young Thug facing RICO charges. Carolina Hurricanes 1st round series with the Boston Bruins makes the show as well.

If you have a legal question of your own call Whitaker & Hamer 800-659-1186.


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This week on The Outlaw Lawyer, Josh, Joe, and Cassandra discuss several notable legal news stories and asking burning legal questions such as, does Josh know who Amber Heard is?

Who's Joe's favorite Boston Bruin? And do any of The Outlaw Lawyer's know who Young Thug is? All that's coming up next on this edition of The Outlaw Lawyer. Welcome back to The Outlaw Lawyer's at Whitaker and Hamer Law Firm. Practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. I'm consumer advocate Morgan Patrick. Our guest attorney is Cassandra Nicholas. Again, she is also an attorney at Whitaker and Hamer.

We have a lot to get into. If you've got a legal situation that you're facing and you have questions, I have a phone number for you. 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 and just leave your contact information briefly what the call is about and an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch.

You can always email the program. Your questions, we'll use them on a future broadcast. Questions at And again, Whitaker and Hamer with offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina, and Gastonia.

And we're here to talk legalese. But first, I think we're going to a little sidebar on a professional hockey team that's doing quite well. I tell you what, Morgan, it has been a lot of fun to watch the Hurricanes. At home.

At home. We've watched a couple of Hurricanes games at home. So we've watched what we watched. They've had game one, game two, and then we just saw game five last night because we're in the studio Wednesday morning. And watching the Hurricanes play playoff hockey at the PNC is a lot of fun.

I think we can all agree on that. It's a testament to how much fun it is, the fact that you watched the away games. You don't watch anything. I don't usually watch the Hurricanes. You know, I get YouTube TV.

Don't get Bally. Yeah, that's terrible, man. I have the same issues. So I have to really go out of my way to see a Hurricanes game, an away game. And I haven't watched a lot of them, but with the playoffs being on ESPN, I've been able to watch them.

And that was a disappointing, what was that? Game three and game four. The Hurricanes play well and pieces of those games, especially the last game. There, you know, they were kind of in control and then lack of discipline kind of fell apart. But, you know, the lack of discipline is huge because Boston kind of goaded them into situations and took advantage. And they play well in front of their home fans, which, you know, by the time this show airs, you know, it's going to already go back to Boston on Thursday could be over, could be coming back for a game later tonight.

So it'll be it'll be interesting. I ended up over the weekend. The past week just meeting a couple of clients who are Bruins fans like it just it just so happened.

How'd that go? Salty. Everybody's a little bit. Everybody's a little bit salty. I like to think we have folks listening to the show, watching the show who are both Hurricanes fans and Bruins.

Sure. There's some. But you know, this is the thing about that. In my experience, I obviously I don't have a large cross section of the population that's like that. But I know a few. And the ones that I know that are like that because we have a lot of transplants down here, right? A lot of transplants from up north.

But most of the people that I know that are like that, they're here. So they like they pull they'll pull for the Hurricanes. And they're primarily Bruins.

And they revert back to being terrible people. You know, the biggest my biggest takeaway from watching the two playoff games in Boston. I'm used to I'm used to our home.

And this is maybe a minor comparison. But I'm used to the Adam Lee Decker who sings that guy. He sings this. If you go to hurricanes games, he sings the national anthem. Then he writes the national anthem to think so he's a he's an amazing person. He does a really good job. And the guy who sings the Boston national anthem did not like him as much. And it's a really good job. And I think it's partially just because we like Adam Lee Decker.

But even if you take him out of the equation, that guy leaves a lot to be desired. I don't like this. It's kind of got like an opera take on the Well, that's a Boston tradition. So for Boston fans, they absolutely love it. And I'm sure they love the fact that we play Sweet Caroline. Yeah, when we're beating them here in North Carolina, even if we lose this series, which I don't think that's going to be the case. But even if we did, we still got Adam Lee Decker. They've got opera man.

So yeah, that's good. That's what his name should be. I don't know what his name is.

I never will know what his name is. Never man. Never again. But uh, and the Sweet Caroline thing, you know, being a state fan, I can't get in on that. Like I don't like it when the crowd sings Sweet Caroline. I wish they'd Well, it's not Carolina.

It's Sweet Caroline. That's enough. That's what you guys think of football games. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, a lot of people. No, no team owns that. Right. Like, there's, I don't know, you go to a Red Sox game and they play. It's very, it's very. That's right.

They do. Yeah, it's weird, man. The dislike that I've developed for just the Bruins just through this series. And I was never a big hockey guy. I always liked the canes, obviously, just because it's our home team. Yeah, never a huge hockey guy.

Gradually. Becoming more of a hockey fan. And just by extension, like I don't like any Boston teams now.

It's very difficult. Just Celtics by virtue of the Patriots. Never liked the Patriots. I mean, obviously, if you're from here, and you're a Panthers fan, you have a lot of reason to not be huge fans of the Patriots. But uh, Red Sox never really did anything to me. Celtics never really did anything to me, but not a big fan. Currently, in this moment. Sandra, have you ever, what's your watching experience?

Jump, jump in. I've been to a Canes game, and it was fun. It was not during the series. And for the folks who don't know, you're originally from North Dakota, which is a big hockey state, but we don't have any professional teams. So you know, like the state hasn't adopted a neighboring hockey team.

Like what's the, we have a semi pro hockey team, the Fargo force. And that's pretty sweet. I like that. I like that.

The beers are cheaper at those games. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, bro ring. The Well, I bring that up. Cassandra, because you've you've moved here in the past couple of years past year or two. And one of the things I want to talk about today was the very exciting topic of judicial elections.

Right? So that's, before I went to law school, judicial elections were one of those things where you you go to vote because you want to vote like the national midterms or, you know, whatever. And you see, you got this list of judges and you, the average person probably doesn't know who any of these judges are. And when I first started voting, many, many years ago, they weren't really broken down by political affiliation.

And then over the, I don't know when that started in North Carolina, it's been a while now. But now it's, you've got your Republican candidates, and you've got your Democratic candidates. But I was just thinking about the person who doesn't spend the person who's not an attorney, who doesn't spend their time in a courtroom, who don't deal with these judges every day, who have been crimes. Yeah. How do you pick who you vote for for judge? I know when I didn't know this stuff before I went to law school. It was it was random, right?

Maybe it would be probably right. I mean, that's the thing you got like, how do you know, like the system is designed to how do you like, literally, how do you know, like someone going to hand you a pen? Is there a pamphlet that like talks about this person's accomplishments and what they do? Are you going to see a commercial, like, the way that our system is, it's very difficult to know. And I wonder if there was like a venue, like an avenue to which you could learn more easily about these people, which I guess there kind of is like people could seek out information, but would people even care to spend their time learning about these candidates?

I don't know. Yeah, like you go to vote for, let's say, let's say you really want to support, you know, like Democratic Senate candidates. And that's that's why you show up.

And then everything else is like an afterthought, right? And it's always the people with like the weird names, right? That people will vote like a weird name. Yeah, you give me a weird name.

That's all day, man. Like if you want your kid to be a judge, name him judge. Yeah, judge, judge, or like a learned hand or give him like, man. Because that's I think that's what most people do. For better or worse, I'm not criticizing, you just you get there, you get a choice between two, you've already come to vote, you want to vote, right? And I think the default is, for me, it'd be like, Oh, that guy sounds like he could be a judge.

Yeah, lady sounds like she could be a judge. And I know there's watchdog groups that people put out information. But yeah, I don't, I don't think the average person, I don't really have a solution for this problem. I just wanted to point out, I like how we do that. We identify these problems, we have no idea how to fix any of them.

Yeah, Josh is like, pick the cool name. Yeah, that's, that's, that's our official advice. I think the solution regarding judicial elections is to not elect judges. But what that might be, how did they do it where you're from? Do you remember? I don't remember.

I should. I know that when I've, I've studied abroad a couple of times, and Europeans are very invested in how America should not have elected judges, like in completely non political conversations, people would bring it up and say, it's really weird that you guys elect judges. I mean, how does not my fault. No, it's your fault.

It really is. Well, you think about it, you know, the Supreme Court, justices are not elected. They're appointed, right. And, and I feel like especially over the past, as everything gets more politicized, you know, judges running on like the conservative ticket, like I think the last go round that I remember seeing this, like there was a whole list of judges for North Carolina Supreme Court, North Carolina Court of Appeals, and they all came together on like the conservative ticket, you know, and, and, yeah, maybe there should be an appointment process. I don't think anybody I don't think we're gonna drive the change.

You know, we're not gonna drive. And we get a lot. I noticed I noticed in North Carolina, we end up with a lot of new judge, a lot of judge like the, you know, the incumbents usually have an advantage. But I don't know that that rings true for judges. It seems like we get a lot of new judges on the bench.

And there's good and bad things that go along with that. But yeah, how could how could a person that like you said, doesn't spend a lot of time in court? How do they know? How do they know how you would have a judge is you wouldn't you really wouldn't? And I guess you can look at stats.

But what are the stats even mean? Like, yeah, I was thinking about Cassandra was just telling us that this is she's getting ready to vote for the first time in North Carolina. And that made me think about it to like, you seem jazzed about it to see the interview. And it's just it's the primaries coming up. So you're voting in either the Republican or the Democratic primary. I'm registered unaffiliated. So I was looking at both ballots, just seeing which way to go.

Which one I want to weigh in on because I really don't know if you're unaffiliated. Do you just pick which problem? Oh, you just pick?

Yeah. It's like it's like you're an independent. It's like you have free free choice. Carolina does did not have an independent option as a registration option. It was unaffiliated instead. So all the unaffiliated people should pull together and really form like a third party. That's right.

But if you're unaffiliated, you're independent, right? Yeah. There you go.

There's your party. All right, we got a lot of stuff to talk about some of its stuff we've talked about before. I want to spend some time we you know, we did the whole show last week about the the US Supreme Court leak. And I think there's still more fallout to talk about. There's some things that have happened since we last got together last week. So we're gonna spend a minute or two talking about that. The Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial is is still out there is still a thing that's going on. So we're gonna spend some time talking about it.

I'm talking about that today. Young Thug, one of Joe's favorite artists, people was was reducing to being one of my favorite people was arrested on Rico charges. And Morgan, you hear Rico like in the movies, and you don't that's that you hear it in a lot of rap music as well.

Rico. Yeah, probably some of young thugs own songs discuss that. So we're gonna spend some time talking about that. But lots of legal news items to discuss.

All right, we'll get to it. The outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer. Our special guest today is Cassandra Nicholas, also an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer. If you've got a legal situation that you're facing, and you've got questions, you can always call 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186. Leave your contact information briefly what the calls about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch. And you can always email your questions to the show questions at the outlaw Just remember their offices, practically everywhere for Whitaker and Hamer, Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina and Gastonia. So, folks, stay tuned.

We're coming back right after this. Welcome back in to the outlaw lawyer. I'm Morgan Patrick, consumer advocate, joined on set by the outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer.

Our special guest is Cassandra Nicholas. She's an attorney, also at Whitaker and Hamer. And Whitaker and Hamer law firm has offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina and Gastonia. And just a reminder, Josh and Joe are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. They're the managing partners of the firm. If you've got a legal situation that you are facing, you can always call the firm 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186. Leave your contact information briefly what the calls about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch. And you can always email your questions to the program. We'll use them on a future show that is upcoming. Again, that's questions at the outlaw Well, we're getting into it.

Dodd versus Jackson Women's Health League, the fallout. Yeah. So, Morgan, you were here. So, you may very well remember last week. That's all we talked about. Huge news story, especially if you're an attorney, especially if you're a fan of what's going on in the courts and legal news. So, we spent an entire show just talking about that leak, what we could figure out from that leak. We read the opinion, but there's still more fallout from the leak.

You know, one of the things we talked about was there was a lot of speculation on who caused the leak, why they caused the leak, and that's unsettled. It looks like the Supreme Court's, there's some stuff I didn't know. The Supreme Court has their own police department. The court has its own little police department. And there seemed to be a lot of controversy over just who would investigate. Does the FBI investigate the leak?

You know, what happens? But it seems like it's just going to be the internal Supreme Court. Yeah, the marshal. We call them the marshal. Is that what they're called? I feel like we missed the golden opportunity to call them something cooler than that. Yeah, that's a supreme force.

Yeah, there's lots of options out there. But then I saw some, you know, they don't really have subpoena power, you know, they, you know, they can't make people talk to them. And it was it was kind of hard to figure out what they were gonna figure out what they're just try really hard, very limited, please. Please talk to me.

Pretty please, pretty. The Supreme Court, they're not gonna be tricking anyone to talk to them. They're they're approaching very educated lawyers.

What do you know, necessarily morons. I saw a couple of, again, I went to the place you shouldn't go for ever for news. You know, we sit here and we talk about what I like to tell you guys where what I've been reading, who I think has been following the story the best.

And I'm doing the exact opposite of what I would normally advise. And I'm just heading to Twitter. Yeah, just to see what random people are screaming into the Twitterverse. But I saw a couple a couple of folks try to do their own detective work and figure out who they thought it would be. But they were just blaming, you know, private persons for the most part.

And that didn't seem to go very well. I don't know if you saw any of that. No, I did not. How do you how do you get to that conclusion of just blaming private persons? Well, I know a lot of people have been going just saying that it was Ginny Thomas, just because she was already in hot water for exceeding her role as the spouse of a Supreme Court justice. I don't think it was Jenny Thomas, but I'm not involved in the investigation.

We're not going on record with that. I saw I saw I saw a bunch of folks who who either knew or figured out who a lot of the law clerks were for a lot of the Supreme Court justices and they were trying to, you know, internet detective their way to figuring out who they were friends with and who they associated with the amount of free time that some people have man just really astonishes me. There. There are people out there. Yes, with an astonishing level of people like people who make memes and things like that, like, it seems like a fun lifestyle.

Enjoy, but like, how? Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just they don't have a bunch of children and things like that. Or they abandon them. So we're, we're set to play. We're a week away. We're a week removed from the leak a little bit more than a week. And I have no confidence that we'll ever know who I think we'll know. But like, we're only gonna know if someone just tells us Yeah, but someone at some point, right?

Some at some point about 28 years. Exactly. It'll be like a blurb when there's like space abortions and things have just like we're at a whole nother level.

But this is who set this all in motion one day. The other the other thing I noticed, you know, you had this seem to just start over the past couple of years, but the people, there's this group of people that will protest, you know, if a elected official here, a Supreme Court justice does something that they don't, they don't particularly care for. They'll protest like at their homes, like on their driveways, you know, that kind of thing. So we're seeing, we're seeing a lot of that I saw the Senate did pass a bill to provide more security protection for a Supreme Court justice and their family. They're gonna send the Supreme Force out there. Down for him calling the Supremes away that's taken. I'm surprised that actually took a bill by Congress to better protect the Supreme Court justices.

Yeah, I didn't know what kind of level of protection a Supreme Court justice needed before now. But apparently, the House Senate, everybody who needed to vote on it all agreed that they needed more and that that the Congress got that done, you know, not following it as closely as you guys are, because I don't have this this free time that these protesters have. But is this universal protest?

Both ways? Like, are we seeing protests that conservative and liberal justices like from each side? I don't know that I haven't seen. Yeah, I don't know if it's been at the homes of both. But there are protesters at the at the Supreme Court on both sides.

Yeah, I can see that. So I moved down from DC a couple years ago now. Where haven't you been? I know. And through law school participated in a few protests in DC. I won't tell you which one.

We don't care about anything. But DC is they they're very good at handling protests. They get those gates set out really fast. They're directing traffic. Yeah.

So if there's any place to protest, DC is the place to do it. Sure. I get that.

I get that. The other thing I was thinking about is if you if you're I think we can kind of assume this leak. We don't know who leaked it. We don't know what their political affiliation was. And we don't know their reasoning. But I think we're safe to assume that someone leaked this on purpose to do to do something to affect judges votes either. Yeah, I think there's a theory that this will lock them in because the judge has already voted doesn't want to change their vote. It seemed like they got persuaded. And there's another line of reasoning that's like, oh, the, you know, we'll protest at judges homes, and they'll, they'll be intimidated or somehow come to come to come to a new decision, right? Depending on on what side you believe.

But I wonder if this is affecting a Supreme Court justice, how they how they voted. Very interesting point you made, because you could you could see it go in either way, right? You see it like just on principle, I'm not gonna change.

And you could see because that's what I would lie, whatever my vote was, like, you actually changed your mind. You should be like, you know what, because I doubled down. That's what I do in like trivia, like in bar trivia. Like if I guess an answer, everybody disagrees with me.

And it's probably wrong. Like I still just double down. That's the thing, man. Like, this is a serious issue that you shouldn't just do to spike people. But if I've got people protesting in my house, I feel like I'm, you know what, I hate you people.

Even if I even if I change my mind, it's this is what I'm doing. So so that's something that's been getting a lot of a lot of coverage. And when I went down this, this, this Twitter verse hole that I shouldn't be in, I saw a lot of people tweeting about, you know, the abortion issue. And this would be people who were, I guess, pro abortion. They call it pro choice, Josh choice pro choice, per choice, Josh, talking about separation of church and state like then, you know, there's a lot of legal issues at play here.

But I saw a lot of like editorial cartoons and things like that. They talked about, you know, keeping church and religion separate. That's not, I would argue is not really what this case is about. You can you can I mean, if you look at this as like a sanctity of life issue, like that's independent of like religious values, you know? Well, and not necessarily even sanctity of life, but at what point in your time does a scientific question to some people like it doesn't have to be a religious issue. I'm just saying you could frame it in ways where it's absolutely not a but then again, you've there is a big religious component to this for a lot of people. So you can understand why that people would make the mistake of of kind of equating Well, the legal the legal issue that the Supreme Court's looking at here is, is abortion a constitutionally protected right? So that's kind of what the Supreme Court has looked at.

And so nowhere in this this leaked opinion. If you if you read it, 98 pages, 98 pages, does it discuss separation of church and state. So from a legal attorney perspective, this is not a separation of church and state issue. And I know a lot of people could see it that way, right? Because it was very now when a Supreme Court justice gets confirmed their religious views are a very big, something they get asked about, right? So we know And it's understandable why because, you know, if you certain religious beliefs are really framed the way someone would look at this issue, right? And you know, it's and it's it's only logical to believe that an individual who's just a person who's supposed to be, you know, a neutral judge judging based on the law, isn't necessarily going to be able to put aside strong religious convictions. Yeah, and just look at something independent of that.

Right. But I thought that was a legal technicality that that that maybe, you know, someone who wasn't a practicing attorney, maybe would not pick up on. So even though religion is probably important to the debate for those reasons. It's not legally, you know, this isn't a First Amendment case. This isn't an Establishment Clause case. This isn't a separation of church and state case. So I thought that was interesting, because a lot of people were going that way with it. A lot of people in the national media, a lot of individuals are going that way. But that's not that's not the case. That's not that's not what we're dealing with from an attorney perspective. You tell those people on Twitter that no, I didn't.

I just judge them silently. Yeah, that's what he was. He was just looking down the rabbit hole.

He didn't actually go down. I haven't checked your Twitter. Do you tweet much?

I don't I retweet stand up comedians and old pro wrestlers a lot. Yeah, that's really all I do on there. That's probably what that's probably what the algorithm would bring to me. I was going to ask this question because we talked about it in our last program. Do you think there's any significance to the draft being dated late February and then it gets leaked in early May? It's almost like, did the draft change and the people that didn't like the change leaked the draft? Oh, yeah, I thought about that. Or did the draft not change and the people that didn't like the fact that the draft wasn't changing, they somehow, they somehow. I think they had access to it.

I mean, it's sitting it's sitting there for a good month or marinating and all of a sudden it gets leaked. I just think that's interesting. I think we we proposed at the time when we were talking about this last week that, you know, there's there's probably some concurring opinions floating around and some like we talked.

I think we just think some scathing saying the word we use. So you think there's been healthy, robust discussion over these couple of months? Sure. Yeah. Who knows?

Again, I don't know that we can really like we talked about earlier, I know that we can point to a side because who knows why? Why the leak? The leaker leaked? Yeah.

Why did the leaker leak? Say that 10 times. But I think today, again, we're in the studio on Wednesday. So by the time you hear this, it'll it'll have already come to pass one way or the other. But we were just reading that the Senate intends to put for a vote a bill that would guarantee access to abortions. But we were just reading that just now that's supposed to happen today. However, the filibuster still exists.

They haven't gotten rid of that. So in order for this bill to pass the Senate, they would mean 60 votes. The Democrats would need 60 votes and they absolutely do not have 60 votes.

So this is expected to fail today. But it's really for the purpose of them being able to debate it on the floor, put out their views and their criticisms of Republican views, essentially. So it gives them a platform even though it's not going to have it's not expected to have an effect. I think I think it's a good segue to talking about our next segment with Johnny Depp and Amber Heard because it's a similar thing where the it's, it's probably not going to accomplish anything, but it gives them a good platform to put what put a lot of argument out there.

Well, I think it's a good play. I think, you know, we're heading into midterms. And no matter what side of the debate you're on it, you need.

I like the fact they're putting people to task and say, Well, what side are you on, you know, that because that's, that's kind of what that was, you know, in the leak, Justice Alito was basically saying this shouldn't be a Supreme Court issue. You're elected officials, whether on the state level or on the federal level, this is something that needs to be legislated. And, you know, Congress doesn't seem to get a whole lot done right there.

They're usually deadlocked. And so I think this is a good thing for whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, the people voting for you need to know what side you stand on, putting it to a vote and seeing who votes No, I think that's, that's going to be real tough for a lot of these folks who don't want to take a stand right before midterms. I've already seen the election commercials change, right? This is the number one thing for sure. Yeah, all the election commercials have changed. And one of the you know, they're talking about, you know, abortion and constitutional rights and what they'll protect or what they'll stop.

But everything is changed. This is defining the whole midterm, like, for better or worse. Seems like a pretty big deal, man, this thing.

Yeah, it is. It's something everybody seems to have a very strong opinion on. And where compromise is difficult, right? Anytime you have a situation where you have competing equities that don't have a good avenue for negotiation for compromise, you get these polarizing moments like this. And, and, and who knows, right?

I mean, who knows where we end up? The outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, you can find them at Whitaker and Hamer law firm. They're the managing partners. They're practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina.

Our legal guest on set today is Cassandra Nicholas, also an attorney at Whitaker and Hamer. If you've got a legal situation that you're facing and you need some answers, I've got a phone number for you. 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186.

Leave your contact information briefly what the call's about. The attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can email your questions to the program questions at the outlaw We'll answer those on future programs coming up next depth versus herd defamation.

That's next. For the outlaw lawyer, we have Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer, also pricing attorneys here in North Carolina. Our special guest on set is Cassandra Nicholas, also an attorney at Whitaker and Hamer.

I'm Morgan Patrick, consumer advocate. Whitaker and Hamer offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Verina, and Gastonia. If you've got a legal situation you're facing, you've got questions, I've got a phone number for you. 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186.

Leave your contact information briefly what the call's about. An attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can always email your questions to the program. We'll try to answer those on future shows. And again, that is questions at the outlaw

Step versus herd. Before we get there, Morgan, I wanted to check in with our friend Joseph. I understand, Joseph, that you are a correspondent, Joe, that you have that you have not. You've been fasting, so you have not eat breakfast today. Yeah, man.

I'm not, you know, yes, this is true. Are you able to focus? Yes, I'm doing great. You know, you ever wake up and just be like, I hate the way that my body feels right now, Josh? Has that ever happened to you?

It does. It happens a lot. So, you know, I eat a lot of McDonald's breakfast, Josh. I'll tell you that.

Burger King, things like that. It's my worst meal of the day. And there's this thing, it's intermittent fasting. Some people do it. It's supposed to be very healthy for you.

Basically, you have a varying window of fasting. It has health benefits, apparently, is what I've heard. So I've been doing that, man. And you like it? Yeah, it's going alright. It's good.

I mean, it sounds more difficult than it is, and I think it's tough at first, and then gradually you kind of get used to it like you do with anything else. Break it down. What do you do? I usually just stop eating between like 7 and 8, and then I'll eat again at like between 11 and 12, usually. Somewhere in that area. 7 to 8 o'clock at night. Somewhere around there.

Supposed to be 16 hours, I think, technically. But I mean, it's just loosey-goosey, man. I'm not too serious about it. But I'll drink. I'll do water. I'll do black coffee.

Big black coffee. I don't know about you, Josh. I don't like putting things in my coffee. I don't either.

I don't like it. I don't know the science behind it, but the proponents of it, like the smart ones, not me, the ones that are smart and know things, they can rattle off crazy health benefits for it. There's just a lot.

And I think the theory is, this is all, I could be completely wrong, because this is not, I'm an attorney. I'm not a health science person, but I think the theory is in the wild, like if you look at us when we were like in the wild, like we wouldn't just consume food constantly. There wasn't a constant supply of food. You would hunt. So you'd spend time looking for your food and then you would eat it.

So there was these windows. So like that supports a more optimal, you know, that's, I think that might be, we're going back to caveman times. We're going back.

We're going back. So I got a question for everybody. Fast food breakfast is delicious.

It is man. And it honestly has to have some like that. I've determined that like what they put in crack, they put in like McDonald's biscuits. Okay. Before we get into this, you know, just from a sponsorship deal, do we have to mention names?

Because we could go out and get advertising for the show. Well, this is the thing about like, I think that's a pretty good ad. McDonald's biscuits as good as crack.

No, no, no. I was going to do, well, what's a, what's an Egg McMuffin? What's their biggest breakfast? They got McMuffins. They got McGriddles.

They've got hotcakes. What do you like the best? What would you get? Just a biscuit, man.

I'm not a complicated guy. Just give me a biscuit. All right. So you got a McDonald's biscuit. You got a Burger King croissant. Which one do you, which one do you prefer?

All right, man. So we could do several minutes on the nuances between the McDonald's and Burger King sausage. That Burger King sausage has got a little more spice to it, man. It's got a, it's a little more authentic to like that what your, your like grandmother would cook. Neither of like what your grandmother would cook, obviously. But then that croissant, man, something about that croissant really does it for me. So it's funny, man. I probably prefer that Burger King, but I eat that McDonald's a lot more. I don't know why. I don't know if it's just because I'm lazy and it's where I drive more frequently.

Cassandra, any thoughts? I'm not on this health and fitness grind. We went as a firm event a couple of nights ago as part of my job. I was paid to go bowling two days ago and I'm still sore. I'm still sore.

So, so I'm not at your level, Joe. So was that like team building, a bowling activity? That was, that was a, yeah, that was a bowling event that a local association had. So the firm, we mounted up a team and went bowling and did. And we did not train appropriately for it. Did you use the rails or did you go, oh I wish?

It's a tournament, they wouldn't let you, right? They wouldn't let you use the rails? There was no rails, but it was nine pin.

Ah, nine pin. That usually helps out a lot for me. So, but anyway, yeah, I too, I didn't want to admit it in the office, but I'll admit it on. Exactly. Perfect.

None of our, the staff is watching this anyway. But I was, I got up and I was like, man, did I hurt my knee? Josh, you know, you as my rec league basketball coach for many years, I know you're in awe of my sheer athleticism. It does not translate to bowling in any way, man. No shape or form.

It doesn't translate. You have many athletic abilities, but it has never translated to bowling. I can put together like two or three good frames sometime and I'll be like, I'm figuring this out, man. And then it falls apart. You seem uncomfortable. I get in my head too much, man. I get in my head. You're a competitor.

You want to be good at it and it's just frustrating. One of our team members got a, we were, we were bowling and one of our team members who should go nameless was not Cassandra was not me. Did we have three people on the team? This is going to be easier.

I guess she had to be there to deduce who this was. But you know, there's only so many things you could do wrong in bowling, right? You can get a gutter, you can get a strike, but there's not really, you know, it's like basketball where you, you can get technical fouls or travel, right? But, but the only thing you can do, like you crossed the line is a foul. Okay. There's a worse thing.

We'll talk about that. But yeah, you crossing the line, that's a foul. So we had, we had a teammate get a foul in the balling tournament. What's worse than that is when you do the thing is it's not frequent, but when you do the thing, you hold the ball and you literally throw it across lanes.

I don't even know what that is. That's a thing. You've never seen that happen. That's called getting kicked out of the lane. It's just a gutter, right? You just, it's just, it's a gutter, but I'm talking like you literally throw it out of your lane and it travels a lane or two over. I don't think I've ever seen that happen. You haven't been watching a lot of bowling. Yeah.

Obviously they're holding the follow through a little too long. Yeah. Well, our segment was not about any of that.

Our segment is, uh, just to follow up on the Johnny Depp, Amber Heard trial, uh, which the last time we talked about it, we were, we were in the middle of Johnny Depp's. Uh, that doesn't even seem like a real name. It seems like it's a character name. That's a sweet name though, man.

Honestly. Oh, this is that speaking of names, this is not important either. So I wouldn't watch Dr. Strange. Good movie. You seen it?

I don't know. Do you know who Dr. Strange is? It's not a movie about the medical field.

I was just going to bring up alley cats, the Disney movie. Well, Dr. Strange. Well, we need to get back to that sounded important, but I saw Dr.

Strange too. And with any more, it was very good. Everybody should go see it. Yeah. Any, any Marvel movie. Now you've already know ahead of time, does this have one end of credit sequence or two or three? Right. So we're all sitting there and we, we get through the first mid credit scene. And so then you're stuck sitting there.

Right. Cause you know, there's one coming up at the end. So you actually have to, which is brilliant because who would pay attention to the, but I'm reading the credits cause you're there.

You're bored and you're just watching. And right after that middle scene, if you look, there's like a, I think it was director of photography. It's like right in the middle and there's three names. And one of the names is Johnny gamble. Wow. And I w and I hope that's his, this guy's real name.

And, but I almost want it to be my name. I thought about maybe this is, it could be legal. I'd vote for a judge gamble. Oh, I'd be a good, any criminal type thing, right?

Any, any like a judge larceny, judge murder, murder Jones, Cassandra, you had an important point trial to bring up. Nope. That was about bowling alley cat. Disney original movie about a bowling team. They weren't cats, but they were nerdy and it comes down to the final thing and it's an eight 10 split.

And this girl sits down on the floor and starts spinning the bowling ball and then gently pushes it. This sounds like classic movie and I considered do Johnny Depp, not an alley cats, no Amber Heard. No Zach Efron in alley cats. I'm trying to figure who, who is the Zach and Zach Warner? Did they were Disney people weren't named Zach and Zach Zach and Cody. So we like Zach and Cody, your kids, Lizzie McGuire. Is that a thing?

She just has the, how I met your father. I'm going to be honest with you, man. I really enjoy it. I think this should be a new thing where we present a segment and don't speak about it. Yeah, that's a good point. Now, and this is the thing you say it's unimportant, but you see like the stats of who's live streaming it.

You had 587,000 people live streaming this trial. And I think when you say it's unimportant, like it's unimportant in the sense that it's going to have no bearing on like the law. Like there's not going to be any kind of groundbreaking changes that come from this case, but like it's, it's entertaining to people, man. It's like a train wreck.

I will love to see a train wreck where no one dies. I mean, millions of people watch the Kardashians. Yeah, exactly. Can you imagine if they were suing each other for death? This is like the same amount of people that watch wrestling on any given day.

Yeah, they should wrestle. Well, we, we, we had an editorial in our materials for the show where this editorial was an attorney out of Virginia who like us was like, this, this is not important. Yeah. Right.

It was not going to result in any new law. Like I think we said that as like, this is, this is if this, if these people weren't famous, you would never in a million years know that this was happening. Maybe the defecation angle. No, I guarantee you, man, there's hundreds of people pooping in beds every day and you don't hear about it. It's just not a big deal. How does it come up? How does that come up?

No one's going to at the water cooler. Hey, guess what happened to me? My spouse defecated. My lady came in.

Yeah, it's not a thing, man. I, uh, but he, this, this, this, uh, attorney, I think it was a she, this attorney was like, I hope they both get judgments against him, right? She hopes that's the result. Cause there's a, you know, there's Johnny Depp's claim of defamation or it's counterclaim of defamation. Uh, and she hopes they both, right. They both just get judgments against each other. And we all get to go back to, uh, talking about alley cats, more important pressing things. Yes. It sounds like a great movie, man.

I'm going to put my kids on it as soon as possible. I can't believe you hadn't seen it. Well, how long, like this is not that long ago. No, it was a long time ago.

That's why you should have seen it. I missed the boat on the Disney movies. No, it's an old cartoon. Is this pre or post? So this is, this is a TV show. Is this Disney original movie?

Okay. Is this pre or post high school musical one pre yeah. Was this about the same time as like the Paula Abdul scat video to cat? What was that cat? Scat?

Are we back to talking about the herd trial? I got to look this up. Give me one second please.

I got to see who's in this movie. All right. We'll get an update. We'll get an update. The show is officially off the rails.

I love that. We're having some fun. The outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer law firm. They're practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina.

And again, our guest this week is Cassandra Nicholas, also an attorney at Whitaker and Hamer. I'm Morgan Patrick consumer advocate. If you've got a legal situation, not a movie question, but a legal situation that you need answers to. I've got a phone number for you. 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186. Leave your contact info and briefly what that call is about and an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch. And as always, you can email the program questions at the outlaw and we'll answer it in the future. The outlaw lawyer is back right after this.

Welcome back into the outlaw lawyer. We have Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer law firm. They're also practicing attorneys here in North Carolina.

Our guest on set is Cassandra Nicholas. She's also an attorney at Whitaker and Hamer. I'm Morgan Patrick consumer advocate. If you've got a legal situation that you are facing, I've got a phone number for you. It's 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186.

Leave your contact information, briefly what that call is about and somebody with Whitaker and Hamer, an attorney, will be in touch and you can have that discussion. Also, you can email your questions to the show, questions at the outlaw It's been an interesting show already, guys. Where are we going next? Well, Morgan, when I do my prep for the show, I always like to look at what's in the news and sometimes I'll pick stuff that I'm not very familiar with.

And so this next story is not one that I am intimately familiar with. I just started reading about it today, but I'm guessing a popular musical artist, young thug, was arrested. It's about time we got into some important legal issues on this show. Was arrested. And this is kind of a crazy charge. This is Rico, right? So you hear that a lot. Someone being brought up on Rico charges. Cassandra, what does that actually even mean? It is the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act.

So that became a thing. That's a federal law that was passed in the late 60s, early 70s. The feds were trying to track down organized crime, like mobsters, like the heads of these organizations that didn't actually physically commit crimes. So they didn't kill people. They didn't commit murder. They weren't out there committing larceny. They weren't out there selling the drugs. But they were in charge of the operation that was doing it.

And it was very hard to make any kind of charges stick under the regular statutory scheme. So this RICO legislation came along that made them, if you prove certain things, even though, so here they're accusing a young thug of a lot of things, including murder. I mean, there's like 50-some charges. Basically like heading a criminal enterprise, basically. But RICO allows you, like Joe, if you were heading a criminal enterprise, even though you may not have actually committed a murder, they can stick you with a murder charge via RICO. So RICO became a very popular way to take out these organized crime syndicates.

The 70s, man. So they use this to go after a lot of mobsters. So give me like your, when you think of like a tough, like stone cold killer type of mobster type, what comes to mind for you? Tony Soprano. Okay, Tony Soprano. You take Tony Soprano and then you put young thug beside him, who's a slender, taller man that wears dresses. I read that. Yeah, he's a dress guy.

And it's just like, it's crazy to think the wide breadth of things that you can go after with a statue. But yeah, young thug. I would have bet anything you were a big young thug guy. So my, no, I'm not.

I'm not. You know his dad? Old thug?

Yeah, we went to high school together. Older thug. That's the thing about young, like there's a lot of young rappers, young, that's you forever. Like there's no transition.

Yeah, I don't understand. Where you become middle aged or old thug. See, I came up during, you know, Biggie Smalls and Wu-Tang and that's the kind of stuff I enjoy, right?

I enjoy that. About oh three, I checked out. Sure. I'm not, I didn't, everybody has that age and Joe, maybe you haven't hit it yet.

I don't know, man. I'm not a big young, I mean, I'm not the biggest young thug fan. Like some, some songs, you know, I can, you can just get into for whatever reason. Like he, he was one of the, one of the first guys that I would consider like kind of a mumble rapper where you don't really understand much of what he's, he just makes a lot of like noises like that.

The, the author in the article in our materials called his music melodic mournful flow. Yeah, it's a lot of like if you, like if you had a stomach ache and you were in bed writhing in pain and someone put a microphone, it's, it's, that, that's pretty good. That's a lot of like what it sounds like.

So my, my boys will tell me about a little somebody or baby somebody or, and, and I, I was making fun of them for that. And I imagine that's a lot like my parents, like I was a big iced tea kid. I liked iced tea.

Yeah. I liked it. I liked the beverage and I also enjoy the artist. I would drink gallons, that's a story for another day, but gallons of iced tea into my body. How I, how I survived. But iced tea and ice cube, you know, my parents used to make fun of that when I was a kid, like, oh, you know, but, but yeah.

Iced tea or ice cube. Are you just, are you just little, you know, like what is it? Little baby. That's one of my kids.

Yeah. There's a little baby. There's a little baby. There's a little baby.

It's not a new thing. Like in the nineties, there was a little Romeo and he eventually did drop. He's just Romeo now. I feel like I would be willing to bet that some of little Romeo's music appears on alley cats.

That would be way to gather. We should Google the soundtrack. See, there's probably is like a soundtrack. But, uh, I, but, but you don't see this Rico statue. You just don't see it that much anymore. Or maybe you just don't hear about it that much.

No. And I think, you know, beyond the whole Rico aspect, and I guess it is relevant to the Rico aspect, but something you have seen, you don't see it a ton. But you have seen, uh, this, this kind of, uh, the idea that things that rappers rap about being kind of used against them. Right.

That was a proceeding. So that's really what, what's that? That's a big part of the issue here. So, um, and it's because yeah, you look at the, you, you look at the lyrics and you read them and yeah, they can read like admitting to murdering people, but like that's rap music, man. Like that's, that is not all rap music, but a lot of rap music is kind of rooted in things of that nature and singing and things of that nature.

And it's storytelling, right? It's just like, yeah, it's just like if you were a fiction writer and you wrote all these murder, but there's a difference murdering everybody, you know, we don't think, but there are no murders associated with Stephen King. Whereas in this instance, uh, young thug is a founder and organizer of YSL. I don't think that this is allegedly, I think he is affiliated with YSL, which is young slime life. And then allegedly, um, young slime life is a criminal street gang. I don't think it's alleged that young slime life is a criminal street gang. I think it is a criminal street gang.

I think it's alleged that he is the head of YSL. So you remember? Okay. But they're associated with murder, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, armed robbery, carjacking, theft, and drug dealing. So through Rico, those are all the things that he's.

Yeah. Rico is just trying to hold him liable for crimes other people committed allegedly on his watch, on his, on his command. And so, you know, the feds, uh, for better or worse, when they proceed with charges, they, they build a very good case. You don't usually, usually, uh, there's something there.

There's at least smoke, right? You may not be guilty of the crimes that you get, uh, charged with, but, uh, the feds usually do their best to build a pretty strong case. So this just came to light. Uh, he was just arrested this week, I think. Um, so this will be interesting, but a lot of the news articles I read, uh, were kind of, were kind of saying like, like you said, Joe, like some of the things that he speaks to in his music might be held against him in some way, which would be crazy.

I imagine a good lawyer can. Yeah, yeah. It's, you'd have to, if that's how you looked at it, you'd have to arrest a lot of people, man, because there's a lot of songs out there. Right. Including some from your, your guy Ice-T, probably, if we're looking back. I tell you, he, uh, you know, Ice-T's done a good job staying in the public eye because he's on that show I don't watch. Every show. Law and order.

That you don't watch. That's for you. But, uh, that's the only, my, um, my truck, my truck is a 2016, my truck came with a CD player, right? So I don't think that's an option.

I don't think you can even get that if you want it anymore. My car has a cassette player, so. Okay. Nice. Nice. I'll let you borrow my Ice-T, uh, original gangster. I appreciate that. I have a cassette and the CD, but that's the only CD I have in my entire truck and it's in there, right?

So if I ever switch to. It won't come out? It'll come out, but why would you take it out?

Why would you take it out? If I, if I get let it merge with the car, if the radio, if there's nothing on the radio, uh, you know, and I'm flipping around that there's nothing on my phone. I want to play and I get to the CD. Yeah.

That's the only CD I want to hear. Yeah. Okay. I bet you that's something you didn't know before today. No, I did not. I've learned a lot of things about you, man.

A lot of things. Yeah. We've all learned quite a bit today. The outlaw lawyers, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, our special guests in studio, Cassandra and Nicholas. And again, she is a practicing attorney also at Whitaker and Hamer and this portion of the program has been melodic and has been mournful and it has flowed quite well.

We are going to come back on the other side and we'll wrap this up. If you've got a legal situation that you're facing, got a phone number for you, 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186. Leave your contact information briefly what the call is about and an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can also email your question to the program will answer on the future show. Questions at

We're back right after this. Welcome back in to the Outlaw Lawyer. Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer Law Farm, your hosts. I'm Morgan Patrick, consumer advocate. Our special guest on set is Cassandra Nicholas, also an attorney at Whitaker and Hamer. It has been a fast-moving show, lots of topics, but we need to wrap this up. Morgan, one thing I did want to say, I feel like I have to say this at the end of every show, and you do a good job on introducing us and taking us out of segments, but we are, believe it or not, attorneys and I think good attorneys. I believe it.

Right. So the law firm of Whitaker and Hamer, that's where we're at. Like Morgan says, we have several offices in the area, Riley, Garner, Clayton, Fuqua, Goldsboro, Gastonia. We have attorneys that practice in a lot of different areas. If you have a legal problem, we have the attorneys, we have the experience, we have the staff, we have the facilities, we have everything ready to assist you. And so we come on this show. We like to talk about legal news. We like to have fun. We like to let loose a little bit, but I feel like I always have to wrap up by saying real attorneys who go to court, again, we're on video today and I wore my polo, not even my work polo.

You didn't either. You look great though. Well, Cassandra looks like a real attorney. Yeah. So she balances us out.

We've got Morgan, great. You, heh. You, great.

Me, heh. You know? I, I have a hard time wearing, like I wear a suit to court, you know, anytime I have to. That's what an attorney does. Sure. Right.

But if I don't have to go to court, real difficult to put a suit on. I try to get as close to looking like a hobo as I can and I actually dress up for this. This is you. This is as good as I can be. This is you trying as hard as you can. You're going to be a skinnier hobo now.

Cause you're faster. Oh my. And that's the best kind of hobo. You see a hobo that's not skinny.

It doesn't really make, it doesn't really equate as a hobo, you know. And you, you're, you shaved and everything. You're trimmed up.

Yeah, I didn't do that. I have a problem shaving. My guy, the plug for Mr. O, the Dominican barber down in Clayton, check him out. You will not be upset. We get paid for none of these recommendations.

No, I don't need to get paid for that. He's my guy, man. He helps you out.

He's my guy. Yes. Um, but, uh, again, and, and Morgan, you've got all the information, you've got the email, you've got the phone numbers.

Yep. Here we go. The Ala Ala.

Here's Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamron again. Cassandra Nicholas, our special guest this week. Here's the phone number. It's 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186. You can also email your questions to the show, the outlaw and again, just leave contact information, briefly what the call or the email is about being Outlaw lawyer is hosted by an attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina. Some of the guests appearing on the show may be licensed North Carolina attorneys discussion of the show is meant to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice. Legal advice can only be rendered once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live had the opportunity to discuss the facts of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law in North Carolina and how these laws affect the average North Carolinian. If you have any questions about the content of the show, contact us directly.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-04-18 22:38:38 / 2023-04-18 23:04:38 / 26

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