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Outlaw Lawyer tackles Johnny Depp, Praying After High School Games & The Mask Mandate

Outlaw Lawyer / Josh Whitaker & Joe Hamer
The Truth Network Radio
April 29, 2022 5:05 pm

Outlaw Lawyer tackles Johnny Depp, Praying After High School Games & The Mask Mandate

Outlaw Lawyer / Josh Whitaker & Joe Hamer

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April 29, 2022 5:05 pm

The Outlaw Lawyer gets into the Johnny Depp case. Tackles Kennedy V Bremerton School District which pertains to prayer following high school football. Last but not least the mask mandate being struck down in regards to mass transit.

If you have your own legal situation and have questions

call Whitaker & Hamer 800-659-1186, leave your contact information, briefly what the call's about, and an attorney with Whitaker & Hamer will be in touch.

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This week on the lawyer, Josh and Joe take a look at some trials and national news and answer important earth shattering legal questions such as has Josh ever see the movie starring Johnny Depp didn't everyone's high school coach pray before and after games will we ever stop talking about mass mandates. That's all coming up on the outlaw mug now welcome into the online Josh Whitaker and Joel Haber managing partners at Whitaker human law firm practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina and offices in Raleigh garner latent Goldsboro equator Rita and Gastonia and we talk legalese each and every week we have some fun with Jan Morgan Patrick consumer advocate if you got a legal situation you're dealing with. And you got questions, I got a phone number for you 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186 and just leave your contact information briefly what the calls about an attorney with Quicken Haber will be in touch and you can always email your questions to the show will use him on answer those on future programs. questions@theoutlawlawyer.com that's questions@theoutlawlawyer.com and the website de outlaw lawyer.com visit and have some fun there as well guys, welcome into the program this week. Hope you had a great week Morgan so far so good.

I'm reloading in this morning's were not in studio some remote again subset on the third the third floor of the Garner office overlooking Highway 70 with my trusty cuppa coffee spurring me on to action today. Joseph, are you hey hey Josh Morgan I'm 20 good times in our's. The second story of our Clayton office because we don't have three stories here. I do have infinitely better out of my window scenery then you Josh, you know nothing against Highway 70 and in looking out and seeing it, but I've got the beautiful beautiful Main Street of downtown Clayton, a historic downtown and when I asked her to look right out on the, the, the grassy area were all that the concerts are held for the talents of great scenery man much better than a a lifeless Highway with client running down it no I picture your offices similar to what Coach K has had to deal with his entire time at Duke, where they erected the tower behind Cameron indoor in the top two floors are Coach K's floors were released they were, and then you have the fourth floor was women's basketball. The third floor was the athletic director and and the athletic director's assistant in the Hall of Fame Museum is on the ground floor. You have to be thumb printed elevator in so you cannot get up there. Unless you have, you know, our print, scan, so I'm assuming that the offices where both Josh and Joe where you are located have that kind of security and in that kind of Museum type field when it comes to law we got security for sure. It's not tech there's no thumbprint scanner, but I have a very nice lady who sits at the front desk and shall tackle you if you try to deceive me and get our our here garner our second story of the staircase to get you to the third story as it is very well hidden is like a maze, so I don't have anybody will tackle you but you probably won't find it if someone is interested in what I got going for me. I used to be a man of the people and not add snow when I first when I got my start. I was now was everything else Mont receptionist not set on the ground floor. People come in they talk to me. I did that for a long time but as that note, we will start this radio show that was really the thing into that. Just too much of a big shot really screaming and I and concentrate on me now to put a hoodie on and I still wear a mask even though there's no mandate just to hide my identity. The hurricanes of the client's right so were we get one more game left the season so that was on Thursday nights were in the studio Wednesday morning so I think there's a nice last game of the season and they were were in playoffs jamming division champs can be one of the top seeds and in the Eastern conference.

That's a very, very talented field.

I know Joaquin's fans are excited they should be were excited coming. They played some some great hockey in as far as we know, pretty healthy going into the postseason placeable sale goes, you can look at a lot of things you strategically and like front office moves and things like that that that put the cans in this position and and you have a good point, but I gotta say I think it's just our attendance at some of these games. That's really pushed the canes forward.

Goodbye that that's exactly we give them fantastic in the end it's funny because I feel like they probably lost the majority of games that we've been there, which is crazy because they've been very good this year but overall you say that attendance by by me and you. Josh is really push this team to another level. Yet like the last 45. We get about half wind up at about half the home games between the both of us left like the last couple I've seen a been so beat the Sabres class a game where they broke a stick and the stick yes all this, but that they broke a stick and play in the stick have to stick with flying up to like the tell you know what's the tele-Tron or whatever it is yet Jumbotron thereby just watched it get like everybody in silence to watch to go all the way up in all the way back down. But, besides I game I haven't seen a lot of wins I will be way that matter, right they did what they do what they had the other in the post in because obviously Joshua bad luck charm. You can come to the game.

We this week, their final regular season home game on Thursday I was to this in our shows an error on on the weekend but yet another and then I get you know we always like talk about sports just a little bit it is warmed up to get the legal juices flowing, but I'm not tired of the Caroline Duke have no is good news in basketball and state is bad enough we had to get through the season. What to do. My good news I haven't heard any good news when I know news, I guess I don't Duke Duquette Doucet Jeremy roach is coming back to do that's that's big to be the first time that Dugas had a good upperclassman point guard in in quite some time but yeah that's your ear right that you know that's the thing you did the Duke you can expect virtually every freshman that they bring in out to to move on early and that's just you know it'll be interesting to see if if John Scheier changes the approach at all and and how he attacks the transfer portal unit Duke Hannah. Some of this news, broke a little bit later so I don't know there's I don't know what's left in the transfer portal for Duke to go after another just got a transfer from Harvard. I think that was just yesterday that they announce that why you correct me if I'm wrong, should I think Duke has the number one recruiting class coming in they do, they've got.

They got a very good recruiting class. I don't know that it's their best ever but it's out there it's top three recruiting classes that they've ever had, but that's a dangerous game and you never know how that's in a pan out and you note. It panned out pretty well for last year but and it panned out pretty where it will form in 2019, but both of those years they had kind of a transcendent, basically one of the best players in the country come in and out of the gate after their gas commander. Very good, highly touted, highly rated, but you never know how the how that's can translate really translate very well guy was lasting a mistake as you get in your discussion. I just I'm not shocked that the Duke freshman decided to go in and obviously I think I'm I'm with everybody else. It it look like they were going to do that.

What I am shocked with is that they cut decided to come back to visit his daughter lame and that's that his stock has never it will never be higher than it was at the end of this season. I mean he was Mr. double double. I mean the MBAs drooling over this kid to come back for more year and he's risking he's risking a lot. I admire him, but you in this in this game with injuries. That's and he's not getting paid, and so he's he's gonna play one more year, so I just find that I was more shocked by that than the Duke players leaving that very than any maybe college on earth you get he'll get some kind of you know, some kind of endorsement deal and sure, but it's knocking to be the kind of money he would make if he is a lottery pick and he is a rebounding machine. He can play defense. He can block shots in the NBA. That's what they want and not easily plays a Carolina Panthers, back that's what they do Carolina.

They have more hi major five-star top 25 type recruits that will return for multiple years is an amazing thing.

God bless and training table training training table food over there must be pretty good but anyway yeah well you see and then you see that another thing that was shocking you Oscar she boy who was player of the year national player of the year coming back. I think I saw that he's something like a $2 million in IL bill something along those lines. So I think that that the Nile is really to change the game as far as people who are borderline lottery pics or you know a little bit iffy.

You can see more of those guys come back. Now they can be compensated for that final year of the correct Eric as we never know it. Listening to the first five or so minutes of the show, but we actually talk about legal things that outlaw lawyer here. One of things that we like to do from time to time as they look at trials that are in the national news and kinda take a look at them just just like an attorney would and so I've got three trials here recently that made national news and talk about the first one is good to be the Johnny Depp on if you call Johnny Depp case or that Amber heard case going cargoes Johnny Depp case that's what I would say but anyway there's a defamation trial in Virginia that is taking over the headlines. It seems every day for the past week or so and so I figured we take a minute to talk about that in libel and slander and defamation in the things forensically get that and then the other case that I've seen the most analysts analysis of is the Kennedy the Bremerton school district case before the Supreme Court. That is about the football coach training after games and meant nothing makes people more riled up no matter what I did. No matter what side you're on minute good coach.

Praying in school case is really get everybody worked up on on either side.

And so that's that was an oral arguments earlier this week.

I think salesman get a lot of attention something we can spend some time on that and finally we had the mask of the CDC mask mandate on public transportation finally got struck down in Florida a week or two ago and we have we haven't all been together since that happened after that.

Stephanie worth talking about that decision is appealed. Just a feeling. I miss there is are three big cases. Now you think you got them all, man, it's good that we get we get to go back and talk about code but I feel like we used to be like a covert exclusive type of show we talk about it every week in some fashion so yeah this is it's it's it's I think you hit every single topic. I think if you got some good ones man you put this together always appreciate the hard leg work that you do. For the show because I do so little of it think the outlier Josh Whitaker and SchellHamer Whitaker and Hamer law firm is where you can find them during the week. They are the managing partners there there practicing attorneys here in North Carolina. They have offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Farina and Gastonia and we will talk more about the Johnny Depp heard defamation trial that's coming up in our next portion of the program.

If you got a legal situation that you're dealing with, and you've got questions, you can get some answers. Here's the number 800-659-1186 leader contact information and briefly what the call is about. Again that's 800-659-1186, an attorney with Whitaker Hamer will return your call. You can also email your questions to the program will use those answer those on future programs its questions@theoutlier.com and again great resource is the website the outlier.com were back more right after this is managing practically everywhere Raleigh garner Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay, Farina and Gastonia got a legal situation you're dealing with. You got questions. We got a phone number for you so you can get some answers. Here is 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 leader contact information. Briefly, what calls about an attorney with Whitaker Hamer will be in touch and you can always email your questions to the program questions@theoutlaw.com John taken away so Joe this this the case got room for but now Johnny Depp Amber heard defamation trial, so I always liked, set the stage so we know.

I think the court a lot time the court.

I think the media lights on for poorly's court cases and they don't lead with hardware is being tried as is federal or state you know what's what's going on here is this is a state court case in Virginia between Depp and Hurd who were were married and were divorced.

That right is a songwriter yeah what quite quite the tumultuous quite the tumultuous marriage and you know this is it's a very it's a very interesting case it's it's one of those things where you know this was just regular people. You never hear about this.

This is an outcome that affects really anybody but with these two people.

There's no great legal precedent that's that's at ash at issue here. This is in a change the course of history, but it's just an interesting thing because it's 22 people that are in the public eye. It's a case that you know you.

It kinda got publicized before it even became a case because you heard you. You heard the allegations from from both sides in the news in the media over time and it was just one of those very interesting things and in the case of Johnny Depp you had potentially saves one of the biggest if not the biggest actor in the game for a long period of time and in many ways this is career just can't taint and in a lot of ways over the allegations of Amber heard in the things that are at issue in this trial so very interesting case, and it's something that's really kind of permeated social media you seen it a lot, especially recently in the last week or so because it's it's kind of being live stream.

The trial is so you seen a lot of of of of video clips and a little short clips just taking things in and putting them out there in the media. So it's a very interesting thing we can had a window into yeah this is adding thing is important to you that you said that this is not an important case and in the legal world.

This case is just another case in no reason even know about it is because both of the people in it are famous and I can't believe that it's gone to trial. Usually people famous or not. Usually these kind of cases are there. He said she said cases this is Small Claims Court. This is Judge Walker stuff you know this is a you know usually you don't want your dirty laundry aired out in public and so these cases rarely ever go to trial because even a party that brings. That is, hoping to work something out. Maybe settle it like that only anyone intends to go in and have all hear your alcohol abuse, drug abuse fights with your spouse like pored over by the national media so the fact that this is even me and tried to just bananas to me is it defamation, libel, slander, the disciple lawsuits are heard when we talked about a couple of an outlaw lawyer in the past, but these are hard hard cases, the window very expensive to litigate in your dirty laundry gets gets a beard and doesn't sound like they have any any problems. This is what one to speculate because because I don't know this for a fact if you look at especially in Johnny Depp's case. If you look at what what these allegations from Amber heard yet what what kinda transpired in his career what it told that it took on him. You know I almost would speculate that he he's happy for this to go to trial and into put a lot of stuff out there because if you've watched his testimony.

He seems very comfortable with a lot of the dirty laundry aspects like his drug use. I think he kind of is comfortable with who he is and he's he's kind of old that and I think it's it's more for him.

I almost feel like he he's happy to have a lot of this heard and to come to clear the air through testimony of himself and other individuals and cannot put all this out there into the public eye and in a more unit where it's all fleshed out and you get context. You can hear a lot of these things. I think he's almost happy to have a lot of this heard and seen, but I think if you look at it, at least from a public perception. What I've gathered, looking at that is. It seems like the public is is, looking at him a lot more favorably. The more that comes out of this. What's yes it was.

I had to read.

I actually know what started this case have seen in the news that paid a lot of attention to is actually to look at what started in some Amber heard was approached by the sounds I may be a nonprofit that represents or tries to get the word out about domestic abuse, spousal abuse and encourage her to write this op-ed piece that was published in the Washington Post. I don't ever read the Washington Post got bought by Amazon right and I have read it since then. But it did mention Johnny Depp by name. It talked about in the past couple years. She suffered this abuse would implied that he abused her. And that's where the and if so, he thought, a defamation action and in doing so. His attorneys release some some statements for her that she thought defamed her so she filed a counter counterclaim for defamation. So get a double defamation lawsuit and no real defamation me and that's it. That's a that is a rare one but you whatever and I can imagine what these attorneys are charging for this case and then what you know. Whatever outcome there is. I'm sure the other parties going to appeal rights. A heated case jurors in the comebacker to be an avenue for appeals. This is probably getting it appealed. No matter, no matter what I was trying to think what was the last two. She was what she was in Aquaman. Is that what she's famous for Aquaman man. I don't know that I'd say she's famous for Aquaman.

The first movie that I'm not a scholar on Amber heard, but that the first movie that I remember Amber heard being in was the pineapple express. That's the first movie I remember I I'm doing some research while you guys discuss. Go ahead. I have seen pineapple express and enjoyed them.

Yet I was waiting in my opinion it was her breakout role. She was the young high school girlfriend of Seth Rogen's character she was she was in pineapple express, choosing a few things. After that, but then you Aquaman I would say probably Aquaman was was most likely her. Her. Her biggest role that I can recall right, so let me throw some magic she got into the biz first thing that we see 2004, Jack and Bobby. She played Liz. She was also in Friday night lights and makes that's that's something Friday night like the TV. Seamus and Karen actual flow correct I meant was I'm assuming that that might be the action have gone they got it. I think it makes more sense now and then would see the mountain, the OC would see alpha dog Criminal Minds TV series. She is been in okay okay I'll make sense but I'm on I want to say that that first big thing was probably that pineapple express. That's what I must say right. Let's see Cal fornication.

She was in that series of melodies evidencing you haven't seen anything Josh.

This is this is a me and Morgan talk is it for you will. I am looking winded pineapple express come out with anything thousand and nine Aquaman was 2018. She is been a couple of those salad in 18 was pineapple express Aquaman in the loss kingdom is in postproduction so it is not been released and they kept her there was some speculation she was gonna get removed from that because there was you know if you if you look at how this played out hurt her op-ed published there's a lot of backlash against Johnny Depp heat his career takes a big hit and then at gradually it started to come out that it is you his allegations that she was actually physically abusive towards him and and a lot of anecdotal things you hear the story like one of the wildest things this year. The story of her eating. This is all alleged it in the testimony that she ate a cheesy gorditas crunch and then defecated in his bed. That was one of the things that is one of the things that what's alleged to someone that's if that's if that's true, that if that comes out to be true.

I'm sure she'll deny a prudent, but that was true. You should be the fact strict liability crazy that if you did that doing pooping in the bed may that's one thing but did take that extra step to eat the cheesy gorditas crunch beforehand. That's just it. That's like 1st° bed pooping right there that's premeditated coming to talk about is the following is 1/3 party for this definitely triple the formation. No man because because truth is and is a defense to defamation and I think they could call thousands of witnesses that have eaten cheesy gorditas crunch is or any Taco Bell food that could testify that it will cause you some trouble. Man defamation by defecation. I knew it was coming at some of the legal this is serious as it were making light of this, but this is it's an interesting thing M and one of the reasons why it's interesting is is one you got both parties alleging this abuse, but it's kind of a nontraditional thing and it's something that you don't see a lot of where you got a man that's that's alleging abuse and one of the things one of the things that's been at issue herein was actually a soundbite that was played where were you have misheard basically on on audio stating you go ahead Johnny in and tell everyone that you were a man that was abused in and basically kind of berating and belittling him and essentially saying that no one's gonna believe if he does this and I was kind of what is. That was actually what his and his team ended with when the end of his testimony. They played that clip and he was basically like yet you know yes I am. This did happen to me so why don't I know it's tough to predict, but you guys have predictions on how this may turn out man. I think my only prediction is that it will be over right whatever the jury finds. I think it's a thing is getting appealed and and I left saying okay and again I'm in a going back to to counter the motivation.

I don't know that Johnny Depp you know it's it's a little it said that he didn't have a prenup when he he married this this seemingly very well balanced and calm and not crazy at all lady Hannah II think he probably lost a ton of money in the fallout from that in the divorce but this is a God who was who is wealthy beyond anything we can understand so I think he's gonna be okay even though his career took a hit.

I think just fine. I don't know that there's really monetary motivation for him. I'm sure he would be upset with some kind of monetary reward, but I think more than anything, just getting all this information out to the public got kinda getting him some public vindication is is really the reward for him. In a lot of ways was the last thing he was in was a Pyrex. The caravans that allied that the that the bad new Harry Potter movies. He was he was in the racing game big they recast them.

They put the guy what's that got a God played Hannibal in the Hannibal TV show Mads Nicholson that the guys name not up on that series now know that it is bad. I think it's bad. I think it's it's I think it's really was less good thing he did a probably probably you know what we do research on the show, so I haven't I haven't Sgt. care being a certified classic and eight they cannot took a dive store in quality as it continues you know started out hot and still decent, enjoyable movies, but I you know they they suffered in quality the longer it went on, but it looks like the last good thing he was in. It's tough to say it's the only joint it may have seen from beginning to end. Was Edward Scissorhands and I saw it like 15 years after it came out. Yeah yeah Edward Scissorhands you know your kids never had you watch that the newer Charlie and the chocolate factory that we boycotted it didn't let no, no, fear and loathing in Las Vegas. I read the book know Donnie Rasco now evidencing nightmare and illustrating my only 3 More St. you see nightmare on Elm Street gaps the original 1984 and he was in that this guy asked me, so I was one of the boyfriends that that that bought it that he got got. He was employed at noon. I did know that yeah I remember now he was in platoon. He had upset a robust grin. He became genuinely really that parts of the Caribbean that it'd be like I said one of the biggest stars. Many took a lot of risk to me what's eating Gilbert grape. He also did Ed Wood which was just absolutely crushed a lot of people liked it. I mean he's done he's done some some interesting work want to keep following this case, I been not been following in the New York Times a been trying to not look at the national media is 32nd take on 11 New York Times that a really good job of following is from beginning to end, so I'll keep looking at it is our official prediction. It didn't matter he wins. It's getting appealed to be engaged in a building and just as a note on his his net worth, it looks like they got its current net worth at one 50 million he it what it was previously. Looks like around seven, 800 million Hannah so that shows you what did the allegations plus the divorce, did two on their and the outlaw line is just Whitaker and SchellHamer. You can find that Whitaker and Hamer law firm.

The managing partners there and again to remind you practicing attorneys here in North Carolina offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Farina and Gastonia. If you got your own legal situation that you're going through and got some questions. We got a phone number for you 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186. Just leave your contact information. Briefly, what the calls about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can email your questions to the program questions@thellior.com will answer those on a future program. Please check out the website, the outlier.com so Johnny Depp and Amber heard that defamation trial.

We talked about that and coming up will be Kennedy versus Bremerton school district.

That's all. Next on the outlier advocate we talk legalese every single week. And folks, there's going to be an opportunity if you've got a legal situation you're going through and you got your own set of questions you can call this number 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what the calls about an attorney with Whitaker Hamer will be in touch and you can always email your questions to this program will answer them on the air future programs.

Obviously questions at the outlaw law.

Your.com. Gentlemen what's up next morning we got a big US Supreme Court case is been in the news quite a bit everywhere, everywhere. Look ESPN sports single was reporting on it the other day but everywhere I look. Everything I read Kennedy the Bremerton school district had oral arguments from the spring court.

This is the one where the coach, Joe Kennedy, Joseph Kennedy's name, praying after games and then we'll talk about it because it is a weird case because usually when things get to the Supreme Court.

They been litigated ad nausea him and when he gets to the Supreme Court. There is a factual record.

Everybody has finally agreed on, what happen a lot times of the trial court. The first level you know, the plaintiff has their version of the facts. The defendant's likeness that what happened, this is what happened and you think it's litigated in appealed and so will the Supreme Court everybody's agreed on some version of the facts of the Supreme Court just answering quite legal questions questions about the law. What tests do we apply years is protected near the Constitution. If someone acts unconstitutional. Is there looking at legal things. As of this case. I don't know that both sides agree on the facts that was the biggest take away for me is the Supreme Court, having having to decide what actually happened here but it seems like the majority of it seems like what would happen as we got a high school coach and after games, win or lose, he would go, maybe to the 50 yard line out on the field he would get down on one knee. Pray out loud for 10 or 10 or 15 seconds. Just a quick glory Cold War goes the God kind of thing, and this is real important to them really had been doing it for years and years and years.

Joe I know I did not play high school football.

Joe, you did play high school football right. I did play high school football several several years of it.

Several glorious years of hand and and you know I played high school football at Clayton high school for the. The I would say local legend of a coach Gary Fowler very old-school very old-school guy, very old-school coach in Johnston County so you can imagine we we we would absolutely we would pray before every single game and after every single game hand. We actually had like a chaplet team chaplain that would do that for us, but that's a big part of you know that was a big part of it and it was never made a huge issue was not something that that was made a big deal. It was not something that was really forced upon people but everyone participated, for the most part. Nobody was walking away or ignoring it like I'm sure some not every kid on the team was religious but they would just kind they still taken me they'd still sit there, they'd be respectful, but it was just something you didn't really think about a man which is something you did, you know, and yet is a big part of what we did so tons of Supreme Court cases. You know you get to the free exercise clause clause in the First Amendment to the establishment clause of the First Amendment is a lot of constitutional things it at play in this case on both sides. I think the right right disguise like a this. I'm not in my official duties.

After the game is just something I wanted to do so. He's like my mind free exercise of religion should be protected because I'm not in my official duties. The games over and Daisy and you know and and in schools like what you can do this on you are here on school grounds.

You're in your official capacity we can establish nor government institution we can establish a religious of both sides think there 100% right, citing citing kind of the same amendment so it is.

It's it it's very interesting case. You know you have it. Looking at that argument, you know there's taking out the argument of whether or not that the coach should be allowed to to do a voluntary prayer with the players to who elect to do it with him. You know the argument that the game is over, so you're not in your official capacity as a coach anymore doesn't really fly for me because you know the gang again can be over but you're still the coach you know and you're still you're going to the locker room you're still you have especially if it's like an away game. You still have custody of the players you're busted him back to the school thing. I don't know that that the that the argument that will the game is over so that I'm not in that that capacity more really flies again that's that's completely ignoring the issue of whether or not you. This should be something that's allowed to happen.

So I guess this is the sum he's done for a while and I don't remember how many years, but the sun is going on for a while and you go to Middlefield after every game taken the and in some of his players would come out somewhere from the other team would come out so just got bigger bigger bigger than some coach from another team complained. The administration years ago we did know this is really happening, which I say last case, but an inmate they told stop is agreeing on. I can stop and he lost his job. 70 years ago writes or just get in the spring court. He's been yet that is job for a long time. That's a long time to man eight years. You know you gotta think the landscape is really changed in the hideaways in that period of time as well get it. It does, and it brings up a lot of interesting questions like this prayer in schools been litigated for hundred years.

You know what what can you do in school. What can she do in school and and and depending on what side you fall on right people feel very strongly right if you think you know I don't buy all my Kindle school praying or getting any you know, thought that one religion is preferred over the other got it. Christian parents or whatever like a mic it should be able to print school didn't want to. Your kids don't have to participate as you get these two sides, but heads and the stuff gets litigated all the time.

What is interesting here because we have and again I think the fact this is unit fact specific. We really need to know what happen like you said were trying to determine what's part of your official duty as as a employee, a government employee, a school employee and what can you do and can't do as of you can see the justices in oral arguments, read the transcript and the peppering everybody with these fact patterns okay well if we say this is wrong. What about this unit. What if you during school texture spouse you know a little prayer something nearby's okay with that and they just keep elevating what if your spouse comes by school any you pray in certain spots and so it's it seems almost silly to a certain point, but when you have these constitutional rights. You know, butting up against each other. The facts are very important and so we don't have any evidence that any kid felt left out or you know felt that the school is establishing a religious we don't have any anything like that is just that this just the sheer fact, this happened that's what that's what triggered everything but it didn't. It's very interesting if nothing else is interesting.

It's it is it's very interesting and like you said that one of the most interesting aspects of it is that is the idea that the facts are not yet fully agreed upon and settled at this point, you know, like you said most of the time something gets to the Supreme Court. Facts are ironclad man set in stone.

There's no dispute and it is just a question of law, but the fact that there still some factual, some factual questions.

It's it's of interest and you know I think it it makes it almost makes it likely that you can see this kind of kickback for some some clarification on those facts prior to making a ruling on the wall. We had the spring court justices can even decide what kind case that says their IRAs is a free speech case that so we apply this test is an establishment clause case, we apply this test. Is this an empty just in employment discrimination cases and we need to send it somewhere else so they were struggling to figure out what are we dealing with, you know what, what is this I think this was happening, this one that the attorneys were arguing very hard for the spring court not to send it back to the trial court level to figure things out like it's here which is taken as long as eight years. But there's there's a good website out there.

If you ever want to learn more about some of things that we brought up as Supreme Court of United States blog Scotus blog and they do a good job of following a lot of these misreading it a lot of oral arguments and come to find out what's happening on Tom's noodle just summarize what a this happened in. Maybe this is what it means going for about like to see how these things, come come together in NC and the justices in action using what questions they ask and what their concerned with his is always as a little bit more to it. But them and they were all over the place. There's no there is no Supreme Court unity illness when they came in came decide what kind case this thing man what what test they apply to me that's the real question in I think with all this uncertainty man, not even understanding fully knowing what type of case. This is what standard is applied how it's approached I'm going to neglect to make it at a prediction on this when I think it's unsafe for our sterling 100% record to make right delicately can't risk that too much, too much at risk. The outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and SchellHamer. You can find them again at Whitaker and Hamer law firm of the managing partners. There also practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina office is conveniently located Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Marina and Gastonia. If you have a legal situation. He got questions, listen to this phone number jotted down and call it 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 of your contact information briefly what the call is about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch.

You can always email your questions to this program will answered on future programs. questions@theoutlawmy.com right after this agreement, and Gastonia.

They are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina.

If you got a legal question again. We talk legalese each and every week that a legal question of your own, you can call this number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 and leave your contact information.

Briefly, what the calls about an attorney will be in touch. You can also email your questions to the program questions@theoutlawlaw.com will answer those on future programs on Morgan Patrick consumer advocate will go back to the guys. What's next morning. We haven't set out and talked since the mask mandate so there was, hereby knows that you are getting on an airplane stud or mask until about a week or so ago. So, the CDC still had a mask mandate basically for public transportation. I think the lease around were at here North Carolina you know most of the schools of a drop or mask mandate. Most of the counties and cities in most of the private businesses you know that so we idling care mask anymore. I never thought we get to this day, at least always have a mask in my pocket don't have any more wood to the doctor the other day and he still require one in healthcare settings makes sense I guess. But I had to borrow had asked for one excited have one but anyway the air the airplane mask mandate is make a lot of people angry both ways. It always interest me to see the issue that makes you both sides of the issue like just irate. You know in. Certainly this is one right you know the violence on airplanes and everything of that spiked over over this mask mandate and this will seem to survive everything else going away so it was making people even more angry right this is like the last. The last mask mandate and I saw a lot of people with poor illness and I didn't really understand how the case got started. Since one of things I went back and looked at Jerome, if you got a chance to look about it. Yes, so you know we have here basically got the plaintiffs in this lawsuit are two women in we will just would not say their name would you say their two women and they along with the health, freedom, defense fund, which is a Wyoming nonprofit that's kind of challenged a lot of the covert vaccine amassed mandates. Once you brought this suit and basically they allege that the CDC mandate was arbitrary and capricious since it gave exemptions to certain groups like children under two years used two years of age but but not other people so they basically said that again. It was arbitrary so you had at the US District Court Judge Catherine Kimball Mizelle who was a judge for the middle District of Florida called the policy unlawful and ruled that the CDC had overstepped its legal authority by imposing the mandate in February 2020, 21, so you you had a lot of people who got super fired up, like you said on both sides and in this judge is now come out and basically said that the CDC essentially did not have the authority to do so and that it was an unlawful mandate is so when you hear when you hear the news that there's been a federal federal judge struck down this or of federal judges did this when they never tell you this is how I got started right. Caesar is a nonprofit and then two women, who apparently had suffered damage because it is the damage. I guess being flying and being forced to wear a mask and in that's what got in front of a judge right judges distal arbitrarily review the actions of the CDC you need a aggrieved party to plaintiff. You need a controversy you need.

You need some damages.

All these things have to be in place and there's a lot of nonprofits out there who go around and try to find plaintiffs for further for these actions you know any times my trike, no gun law. It was getting challengers usually nonprofit that's found someone you know who who technically has been affected, but bring in a federal lawsuit takes money, that's not is not inexpensive. Things are for me it's always fascinating how something like this got started, how to get for this judge and in utilities nonprofits. We don't really going on Saturday here but form shopping right they they find a form a state court or a federal court where they they think that court may be favorable to their side, so here they ended up in Florida and and they they one, at least temporarily, you know, that was an injunction type matter so at right now mask or mask are optional in the CDC yet, I think, has appealed that zone a couple weeks will be another argument and will see if that that stays the case. But for right now Apple in a couple times during the during the pandemic. One is like a five hour trip not mask mass roof.

I'm I'm already uncomfortable in a plane, I'm a bigger guy and some barely fit in the seat as it is some already uncomfortable and I don't even care about this time you can tell me all day like you're safer with a mask and I believe you makes the make sense to me. Man I don't want to wear on a plane for however many hours you're stuck on that plane and already uncomfortable. That's just that you know I was. I was actually with you on the flight you're referring to Josh and I was sitting right across the aisle and I can I can confirm for the listeners.

You were very uncomfortable.

See it.

Even with the mask on your face. I just her body language. I could see it, Hannah. I could tell that you are having a bad time you are not enjoying yourself whatsoever and you know we it's very like you said you get. It's amazing how quickly a lease for me how quickly you get used to to some of these covert based things that have happened that kinda became a part of our everyday life and having the mask in the expectation that you need them, asking where you went and carried that mask with you everywhere and then how quickly a lot like human now have a mask anymore. I don't carry it with me. If I go somewhere that need that requires that I have to borrow Hannah you had the shift to the mask and then away from the mask is been really, it's been really drastic commandments and its we always longed for that normalcy. Again, you know, anytime we talked about covert we would kind of speculate. When will it will it ever be normal what we ever return to the kind of a feeling of normalcy. I think we gotten pretty dang close to yeah the question is that legal? You know there will be in a code will spike again and and and I guess it depends on the very and how people are holding up to it. But you know were where I do.

I do feel like my have the sniffles today and you woke up and I wasn't terrified, she does like I may vegetable some babies have some allergies are a little bit of a cold surfer the first time in a while is like that. Maybe I just got a cold and I'll be I'll be all right. But United at I don't feel the need to self isolate for 10 days and then take a lot of rapid testing and all that good jazz so maybe we are. We are get on down the road you know that the CDC has has an argument that hey we need to be able to do this for public safety and this is within nothing we talked about agencies before Job conquers all his power risk, Congress, and a set of these agencies and given this broad declaration are you're in charge of public safety and you can do this this medicine in cities and MNCs to be derogatory, but there bureaucrats frightened in the CDC is a big wheeled these unelected people wield a lot of power that Congress has delegated to them is as of the judge said is I hate you guys have exceeded your congressional authority by by doing this, and so their arguments can be.

We have not. This is in our purview of things that we can do things the Congress has required us to do and and that we need to be able to do this because it does spike again.

We need to be able to know that we can institute this band so I don't know that the CDC exceeded their authority. I haven't seen the specific legal arguments because are not widely available but I think I don't know that they don't know if they've exceeded their authority. They can't do a masked man on public transportation singly is probably in her wheelhouse in the they can do that is my thought, yeah, but that's you know that your thought within you look at what the judge says, and in their unit clearly hurt her.

Holding is that that mass requirement violates the procedures for that agency rulemaking and that's kind of where this was where this ended up being struck down, but you know it's regardless it's gone. The mask mandate is gone and there's it will be interesting to see what it would take you know and and God willing will never have any kind of crazy Speicher crazy new variant, but I'd be interested to see what it would take to get us back to that same level of restriction because you have so much more resistance from people. I feel like after that unit after everything that's happened and after all these things been lifted in a it would all my almost like it would take some kind of something really drastic to push us back to that point why I think you will always have folks that were mass narrated that matters is not required in surgery.

If you feel like you know you need to wear a mask or you got know some other health issues are some the bile means. But as I think it'll unit you will will want mask around for a long time but yet people in that that was a lot of that was the argument for a lot of the folks who oppose the mandate is that if no one's preventing anyone from wearing a mask if you want where mask where mask unit where six masks but but don't tell everyone that they have to wear a mask that was that was up at the position that was pushed by a lot of these anti-mask folks. The outlier's Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer. You can find them at Whitaker and Hamer law firm managing partners.

Their pricing attorneys here in North Carolina offices in Raleigh garner Clayton Goldsborough for quivering and Gastonia and take short break will come back we'll wrap up this back in Joe Hamer managing partners Whitaker Hamer law firm offices in Raleigh garner Clayton Hillsboro for quivering and Gastonia and pricing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina.

If you got a legal situation you're going through, take this number down 800-659-1186 got questions, call the number 800-659-1186 of your contact information briefly calls about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can always email your questions to the program questions@thealaline.com and we will answer those questions on a future program and please check out the website de outlier.com guys wrap it up for us Joe. I have a a non-legal question has been bugging me for like two weeks and asking the questions that aren't young so I'm prepared I'm fully prepared for your question. What do you think what you think the percentages of people and in our in our society who have a cell phone but have either not set up their voicemail earlier voicemail boxes perpetually full 72%. I think it's a very like everybody I called back in the past to ignore the these people have called me I'm returning their call no voicemail or voicemail boxes full what's what's the was the professional acceptable way to deal with ID just say have returned your call. Hopefully will see you missed the call, is that is that we don't know what year you see your little older than me and and and I think that as as we age and as our kids get older that voicemails can be a thing of the past it's gonna be irrelevant because you can have your unit text someone you can email someone to be some other form of communication.

We don't even know about big voicemail. Got myself, man. I'm one of those people who do not have it set up where it stays full and I'll clear it out and get full again at any out. I might want transcript.

If I get a transcript that I write. That's all you get from but like in a professional setting like someone is called in an office which is clearly not a yes some people's offices may be a cell phone, but our offices in office he got a phone system and answer you've called them back is not like you can assume it's a self learning just text him and be like a what's up called me and you know so I beg assess the new voicemail is a I called you and I guess you'll see it or you might not edit it at our I think I voicemail actually tells you like to email us like why are you doing this you should just email us the well it did some is been puzzling me up and I been trying I been thing about that like as is happened so many times in a row is when the big questions that I'm grappling with the biggest nonlegal question. I'm currently grappling with. I tell you we get into all kinds of legal discussion here on the program, the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker Joe Hamer managing partners Whitaker Hamer law firm, we do it each and every week and you can find them at the offices Raleigh garner Clayton Goldsborough few quavering and Gastonia.

Their pricing attorneys here in North Carolina than managing partners of the firm. You got your own legal question and you need an answer. We got a phone number for you 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what the calls about an attorney with Whitaker Hamer will be in touch. You can email your question to the program questions at the alkali or not, will answer it on a future episode where in the books for this week will talk to you next week right here on the ring is attorney licensed to practice law in Carolina. Some of the guests appearing on the show maybe licensed North Carolina attorneys discussion of the chosen to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice. We would like to be rendered. Once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live at the opportunity to discuss the backs of your case with you.

The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the lawn north Carolina and how these laws affect average of Carolinian. If you have any questions about the content of the show, contact us directly


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