Matt Slick Live

It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org.

When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hope you're all having a good day.

I'm having a good day by God's grace, which is always the case. And if you want to give me a call, as usual, the number is 8772072276. I want to hear from you.

Give me a call. Also, if you want to email me, you can do that. Just send an email to info at karm dot org, info at karm dot org, and put in the subject line radio comment, radio question, and that should work. We are live on Clubhouse, we're live on Rumble, we're live on YouTube, and also on several stations, radio stations, wherever you are driving. It'd be kind of interesting just to hear people, where they're coming from. You know, I'd listen to me in the car or in podcasts later or whatever it might be.

I'd be kind of curious to see or to hear, I should say. All right. Hey, I want to let you know that we stay on the air by your support. If you are so inclined to support us, we just ask that you would go to karm dot org forward slash donate, c-a-r-m dot o-r-g forward slash donate, and support us. Now, if you would prefer that your support come in for the radio show, because that's what a lot of people are listening, just put an email in there, too.

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I can't think of anything else. Let's get to Alan from Virginia. Alan, welcome.

You are on the air. Hey, man. How's it going? Oh, it's going, buddy. I'm hanging in there.

More hanging than in there, but I'm hanging in there. There you go. All right. Do you remember, it's been a while, do you remember a conversation about me potentially going to the new church at Swift Creek Baptist?

About you going to some church? Well, I talked to different people. Oh, I visited it. It's all good.

I visited it and asked the pastor some questions. Okay. So fill me in.

What happened? So most of the questions were actually about Calvinism or Arminianism, because that was one of the things I wanted to get at. And some of the comments from our discussion was we didn't have much time, maybe 10 minutes of talking, I guess, but one thing he says, my opinion is that he at least has a foothold in the door of Arminianism, but I don't necessarily think he's a five point Arminian. So and from what I'm reading, I think, I believe that some Arminians don't hold to the five point. And that there's nuance in between. Is that right? Yes.

So I'll get down to the list. So he says that he does not affirm Calvinism or Arminianism and states that he is somewhat in the middle. He affirms partial depravity and denies total depravity. He did mention that he has spoke with a lot of Calvinists in the past, but still doesn't affirm Calvinism. But he also has Calvinist members in the church. He doesn't believe that faith is a work, but may agree with works and that they can be from the heart, such as looking at a woman in lust. He says some of the Calvinists hear from faith alone. But then I commented to him, well, Roman Catholics also affirm faith alone.

So I can't just take on as a word for that. Actually, they don't affirm faith alone. Catholics deny that faith alone in justification. And they do, they deny it. Really, I thought I remember hearing one of their conversations where they said they believe in faith alone.

No, no. I know the official position. For example, in Canon 9 of the Canons of Trent on justification, it's 9 and 24, I believe it is. I'm paraphrasing, but it says if anyone teaches that it is by faith alone, that one is justified. That is to say, without works, without this, without that, let it be anathema. In paragraph 26 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it says that you attain salvation through faith, baptism, and the observance of the commandments. In paragraph 2036 and 2070, there's a combination of those paragraphs where it says that the Ten Commandments, keeping them is necessary for salvation.

Okay? So, yeah, they deny faith alone. People who don't know what official Roman Catholic theology would say, actually what they would say is they're saved by grace alone. And what they're doing is playing with the words. And they're not being malicious, okay? This is how they're trained. This is what they think. So grace alone means God's gracious work in you through your works and your faith saves you. So it's by grace alone, you see? That's what they do. They'll say the works that God gives you are the works that are graciously given to you.

And as you participate in them, that you are demonstrating your faith and working your faith out in such a way that the grace of God will work in you and through you. Okay? Interesting.

Okay. He also affirms election, so he doesn't believe all can be elected. Well, I shouldn't say that, but he says he affirms election, but not the same election as Calvin is. Well, election means being chosen, and you know, what Reformed theology says, individuals are chosen for salvation, but God chooses people to do various things who are not saved also.

But anyway, yeah. But he also believes that we're chosen before the foundation of the world, but I didn't get his affirmation on if he believes that is election, like a salvation election or a different form of election. You can ask him. If it's God's election, you can ask him, is it based on foreseen works that he says that God sees people will do? That'd be a false teaching, but you can ask him.

Because you know that you're going to do a good thing, that's why he picks you. Yep. I asked him about Philippians 1.29, and he struggled to explain what it means. He focused on the suffering, and he pseudo-denied that.

What was that? I'm laughing because yeah, a lot of people struggle with Philippians 1.29. Yep. And he pseudo-denied that it is speaking of being granted faith. He denied as being granted faith that people are granted faith? He didn't completely deny, but he basically denied.

Yeah. I'll just offer a logical statement. Is it the case that God grants people faith, or is it not the case that God grants people faith? It's a true dichotomy in this place, and so you can ask him the question. Because a lot of times what people do when you ask a specific question, for example, is Jesus God in flesh? And they go, well, you see, blah, blah, blah.

And I'll say, is it the case that he is God in flesh, or is it not the case that he's God in flesh? Which is the situation? So you pin them that way to get them to answer a question, because a lot of times people don't want to answer a real question.

What they want to do is hem and haw around things. Yep. And let's see, he at least affirms that Jesus paid the sin debt on the cross, so that's good. That's good. They're going to ask him.

They're going to pay it for everybody. You didn't know, right? Yeah. Did he? Yes, he did. Well, then, is all their debt canceled?

All the sin debt canceled, everybody? Yeah. Yeah, it was like a 10 minute conversation. He had to go and it was after a class. But yeah, we didn't get much into free will, predestination, or women pastors and deacons.

This is pretty big for me, assuming he pretty much has a lot more of a foothold than the door for Arminianism and Calvinism. He denies regeneration before faith, and I believe he said that he affirms faith before regeneration. Is he talking temporally or logically? Do you know the difference? We didn't have time to really get into that. Do you know the difference, then?

Actually, what was that? Do you know the difference between temporal priority and logical priority? I believe so. I've heard your light bulb explanation and stuff. That's good enough.

You can ask him. When people say, well, if faith precedes regeneration, then say, well, are we saying a few seconds here? Are you saying that we have a believer who's also not regenerate at the same time?

How do you have that? They're just questions, probably with temporal priority. And that's the last point I have. But from what I was gathering with him, and he's willing to have a discussion with me in about two or three weeks from now.

So we'll see if that goes through, and then by that point I should be able to have a list of more things I can ask without being constrained to like ten minutes. Well, he sounded like a good guy. He's been in orthodoxy. I'd ask other questions, too, like, is Jesus the man right now? Is he derived from the dead in the same body he died in just to make sure?

Can you have women pastors and elders, and is Roman Catholicism Christian? I'd ask those questions, too. There's another thing I wanted to ask you. Do you believe partial depravity is faith plus works because they believe that their choice matters? Now we had to define our term to talk about what partial depravity is. So I would like to study that and see if there is an official Armenian position. But as far as I understand, in Armenianism, real Armenianism, they believe in total depravity.

That's what I've read, too, but I don't know. Yes, so basically it's like saying they're just mostly depraved, you know, just mostly, so that they're still capable of making moral choices. And so what this is is human-centered theology. Well, God wouldn't just choose people.

He's going to make it so that you're able to make a free will choice. And I would ask somebody, well, can you show me that in Scripture, which they can't, and why do you say that? And it usually comes down to their idea of what fair is. I view Armenianism as being prideful in trying to take away some of God's sovereignty to show off.

Yeah, sometimes. But you know, Armenians, they love the Lord, you know, and they're Christians. And they put their trust and faith in Christ. They're just inconsistent and some theological fine points, but that's okay. You know what?

It's all right. My view is if it is actually faith plus works, then I wouldn't consider them Christian if works can be done from the heart. If they say that works keep them saved or get them saved in combination with the faith, then we've got to give them the Gospel. They need to have the Gospel presented. It could be that someone's regenerate and just ignorant, and you've got to correct them.

And you're lovingly impatient. But if someone says, no, you have to do good works in order to please God, in order to keep your salvation, well, then they don't know what the Gospel really is, and they need to preach it to them, and they need to correct it. If they would say that them choosing to say if they believe that God grants them grace, that basically they believe in irresistible grace, if that is the case and that the deciding factor is if they choose to accept it or not, do you believe that works? No. No, it's just an inconsistency because we do choose.

Even in Reformed theology, God's regeneration enables us to make that choice in which he grants us faith. So it does happen. Okay, buddy, there's the breaks. We've got to go. All right? All right.

So we know how it goes with him. Call back again, okay? All right, man. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We want you to keep listening. We'll be right back. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Let's get on with Alberto from Georgia.

Welcome, buddy. What's your Taliban home today? I'm lenders. I'm behind the CRPD School. We'll be talking some stuff on the air.

Good evening, Ashley. My question is, for some pastors from Romans chapter six and verse three and four that they teach that that's water baptism. And also they say that they got that they were about to usage. You cannot be saved. the general consensus is that when you're immersed in water that that is the fulfillment of being buried with him through baptism into death and that's why they would say that but that that that but that's roman three i mean that's the roman sixth verse three and four that's referred to as baptized into Christ spiritually or or as your water baptist that's my question well some people okay maybe i'll open the door here baptism is an identification and you can go to first quintessence ten for example and it says that that uh... i do not want you to be unaware brother that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea and all were baptized into moses in the cloud and in the sea now they walked across dry land and were never touched by that water so we get the word baptized into moses so baptizing into deals with the issue of of identification we can get into more phraseology from stuff like that but that's what it basically means okay so baptized into alright so when we talk about being baptized into it's spoken of in roman six three baptized into christ baptized into his death rome first quintessence ten two which i just said baptized into moses then first quintessence twelve thirteen we're all baptized into one body and galatians three twenty seven for all who were baptized into christ have closed itself with christ so i'm not exactly sure how to say exactly what that phrase baptized into means but if we get theological on this so we have different kinds of baptism we have water baptism now jesus when he was baptized i believe he was sprinkled because he had to fulfill the requirements of entering into the priesthood according to the old testament law in numbers eight seven requirement was to be sprinkled that's what the bible says and so i hold to that position i don't have a problem with that get a lot more is the background right go ahead and uh... okay and also uh... the baptism it is a baptism of fire uh... that is the holy spirit deals with charismatic answers a baptism of persecution soldiers uh... baptismal of uh... of water which is a covenant sign the very least uh... in relationship to the christian church in christ there's a lot here so is that we have a baptized in the christ so you could be baptized in the christ hypothetically if sprinkling was when it was done that would still qualify or porn was weight was done because people say didn't realize i'm i'd give this for your patience to people who are listening was eyebrows are shooting up the way what because in in acts one four jesus says that people we baptized john baptized with water but you'll be baptized with the holy spirit that many days from now with a baptism of the holy spirit is always in the old testament is prophesied as pouring it's always said the holy spirit will be poured upon you in july two twenty eight twenty nine acts one seventeen eighteen so understand that the word baptism has a lot of meanings and when we get to this particular place and then we say what does it mean here baptized into christ have been baptized into his death i would say that it's an identification with christ that you have gone to a process a ceremony that is sacred in the christian church even baptized into identifying into and with uh... the death and into christ and so when you're baptized into death enrollment in first four just as christ was really raised to it it's an identification with covenantally as a sign with what is going on in that active baptism what christ did a lot of noise in the background there i know in the street you're walking in the street or in a car growing window up or something? no in a car in a car so um... so this is why i'm just saying it's a tough one to analyze and just get exactly what it is it's just a tough one so it must be a quick question if a person accepts christ and gives baptisms to water but then they say well he truly never got through the faith convert now was he still baptized into christ spiritually even though he got baptized into water even though he truly repented so if he's baptized into christ if he's a true believer and he gets baptized he's baptized into christ yeah all right all right time will tell though right eventually yeah yeah of course time will tell yeah all right not a problem okay all right all right god bless okay god bless okay all right that's okay well it happens um... okay now let's get to matt from north carolina matt welcome you're on the air hi man how you doing hey man i'm hanging in there hanging in there what do you got buddy uh... whenever god calls his people out of uh... the babylon church in revelation is that a particular particular religion or is that the city is it both just a question i've had well babylon was an uh... an actual city in the old testament and it was in mesopotamia and so it was also uh... pretty bad so it has come to symbolize rebellion against god and bad stuff so when i'd like to know the exact verse you're talking about but when it talks about uh... christians being taken out of babylon then there's and it calls it the great harlot then uh... then we're not sure okay because some say the great harlot is the roman catholic church some say it's a world government uh... some have even said i've heard uh... this united states of america i mean you know you hear different things and so i can't tell you exactly what it is okay okay see that's my view is it's the catholic church and and like all coal religions mixing together and possible judaism mixing together but that's just my particular view it's possible it's possible so we do know that there's going to be no babylon was full of commerce money and paganism evil was occurring in it well the roman catholic church is full of commerce and uh... money and paganism so that's why some people say that's what it is because it's throughout europe and claims to be true christianity yet it uh... purports idolatry a false priesthood and a false gospel so that it could be but it could be also something else that comes up later it might even be the literal city of babylon it might be that uh... there might become a political center of power with the anti-christ there and christians might be there and are called out who knows uh... stonehill all right matt one-man all right but he was at a better answer for you but i can only give you know educated guesses on that one uh... all right all right hey folks there's a break give me a break a call the number's eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six why don't you give me a call we'll be right back after these messages it's matt slick live taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six here's matt slick or but we tried again welcome back to show if you want to give me a call the number is eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six let's get to jim from minneapolis welcome here i think rather all right but it's uh... wrestling with the uh... uh... your stance on free will i guess and uh... justification uh... faith and baptism and all that stuff them i guess my question is so so are you saying that uh... faith you say it's granted by god are you saying that that is not a decision on our part or are you saying that it's just it's like preordained it is a kind of ordained and it is granted and it is our decision okay uh... okay so is it our decision and then it's granted no or is it granted and that our decision no if it was our decision to believe and that would violate certain aspects of scripture but the bible says is in afflictions will uh... one twenty nine it's a verse i go to frequently when i'm discussing theology particular sateriology the doctrine of salvation it says to you it has been granted for christ's sake not only to believe in him but also to suffer for his sake so if god grants that you suffer it means it's something that he has granted that's going to occur to you but it also is the case that he's done this that you believe now the uh... the word uh... to grant in this case is the aorist passive indicative and what that means in the greek is past tense and passive means that you receive the action so god has granted to you to believe in christ but you do the believing you actually do it and god and you can also go to act thirteen forty eight as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed when you ask the question as a three-part question the answer is yes to all of them god ordains it because he appoints to act thirteen forty eight he grants because one twenty nine and you do the believing because it grants that you believe so it's not a decision by uh... at all yes it is how is it a decision if it's preordained if it's preordained that i have a schedule to like on tuesday i have a phone this meeting with somebody at eleven thirty it's prearranged does it mean i don't have free will does it mean that the person doesn't have a free will if it's prearranged so the free will if it's preordained that you're going to be there so we don't have a choice whether we actually follow up or go to that place so is that not just an argument against free will i'm trying to illustrate one point you said if it's preordained we don't have free will that just that doesn't follow here's something that's arranged i have an appointment next week i have an appointment next week unless something weird happens but i have an appointment it's all prearranged it's pre-scheduled does it mean then that i don't have free will because something is prearranged the answer is no well you made the decision to schedule that right yes so the decision came the pre-will decision came before the actual pre-ordained meeting i just don't see all that analogy oh i see a different one that might work yeah i get what you're saying now ok let me ask you are you a christian okay which church you go to i go to free grace in elk river so here's what the bible says this is what it says uh... also we having uh... have obtained an inheritance having been predestined according to his purpose who works all things after the council of his will as a features one eleven from god works all things after the council of his will you agree yeah we mean you know uh... so the other day yeah no i i didn't know okay so what about the atom or about uh... eating of the apple mccardin but you know what it's all good at what what what's going on wanting to talk okay so god works all things after the council of his will does that phrase all things include your free will choices uh... to me that just seems like it takes all three that there's no choice if it's already preordained well then let's talk about god here do you think god is up there in heaven squinting his eyes looking down please please do this please please please oh man dang he didn't do it is that what god does no okay no i don't think that no good is god sovereignly in control of everything or are there things that happen that god is like oh my goodness i hope this doesn't happen which is it uh... uh... so that i kind of wrestle with a bit because since the you know since inception of the beginning of time and this world and the fallen that it's taken through the garden and the free will people have yes so there's no freedom of choice in the believing in christ because it's already preordained god or do you have there's no problem with uh... the standard prayer when you're asking to you know if you're going to make a statement that would address the statement that your interest uses it is going on so are when it is run this by you god ordained that you have free will inside of his sovereignty would you agree with that yes part of it okay good so then that means your free will and god sovereignty are compatible yeah yep did jesus have free will uh... uh... or she's got a free will i would say yeah yeah he was god but he was also human right so i would say yes and no yes because he was human he felt everything okay that's a hard one there i just haven't thought about that yeah well how about this does god have free will no no god can only do good he's only just wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait uh... so god doesn't have free will is saying that he can't do anything he wants to do it something else has to work on him to make him do stuff he's not free that's what you're saying yeah so check it out so he can't do negative like god is only justice right he's only good he can't do bad let's define our terms he doesn't have a choice to do the devil's work he's only good look let's define free will in terms of god's character not ours alright that's what you're doing is you're reversing what should be done god is free because he is the true free being and he can only do that which is consistent with his own nature he's holy he can only do holy things yeah so free will is the ability free will is the ability free will is the ability uh... dude hold up yeah let me define what it is hold on take a breath okay hold on so free will is the ability to make a choice that's consistent with your nature but is not forced on you okay yeah alright okay so does god have free will uh... yes okay good now jesus has god in flesh and the attributes of both of his natures are ascribed to the person so jesus walked on water jesus says i'm thirsty so he has the attributes of divinity so does jesus have free will the answer is yes now john five nineteen jesus says the son can do nothing of himself unless it is something he sees the father doing in john five thirty jesus says i can do nothing of my own initiative if you say jesus has free will and he does because he's god how is it then that he can only do what the father has him do logic would say that god who's free christ is free came to do the will of the father he has the freedom to do god's will and he's still free at the same time okay got it that makes sense and then uh... as far as free will and people like coming to christ are coming to believe preordained but yet you still make the decision because we have our sinful nature to go the other route so are there still a choice on our part or no our sinful nature means that we will only choose consistently with our nature sinfully so god changes us he makes us born again he causes us to be born again first peter and then uh... the justification part uh... for the forgiveness of sins and becoming christians so we're justified through our faith uh... justified by faith but look at this john one twelve and thirteen says this but as many as received him so you do the receiving you actually receive him you do it that's in the active voice which means you're performing the action but as many as received him to them he gave the right to be called the children of god even those who believe in his name who are born not of the blood nor the will of flesh nor the will of man but of god when we get back we'll talk about that hey folks we'll be right back after these messages please stay tuned good this match like why taking a call seven seven zero seven seven six is max leh but welcome back to the show was going to react to the gym companies producers going to do that click there he did that uh... let's get back on with jim hate you there you know i'm here all right now i know it's just a recap although i don't know knowledge to say i read that the trick of the other the two verses and what we're trying to do is show you the bible teaches this what do we do with it and how do we make sense of it that's my that's the claim in john one two one twelve and thirteen it says but as many as received him so you did the receiving no problem to them that's to you he gave the right to be called the children of god to become the children of god even to those who believe in his name and you did that you received him and you believe and it says who these who do this who were born not of the blood or the will of the flesh nor the will of man but of god so wait a minute what we do with this most people what they'll do is they'll say well uh... they'll explain it away they go on to something else and it has to be that we follow the blonde haired blue-eyed caucasian surfer jesus who's standing at the door of your heart asking permission for you to let him in that's what they want us to follow because it's easy but what i do is i say no no no no let's look at this god appoints people to eternal life, Acts thirteen forty eight and he grants that they have faith like page one twenty nine jesus even said in john six sixty five you cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the father john six sixty five so we have to make it all work and there's how i put it together god ordains whatever shall come to pass he called us for salvation from the beginning for salvation second thestonians two thirteen he grants we have faith, Philippians one twenty nine he grants that we come to christ john six sixty five but it is we who actually do the receiving and the believing john one twelve but we do this not initiated out of our own conscience but what god has done in his regeneration because he causes us to be born again first peter one three and then in that state we freely choose god of our own will because he's fixed it for us okay yeah that's good i appreciate the explanation i didn't quite understand how the free will would fit in with with the uh... the pre-ordain or predestined predestined stuff so i kind of wrestled with that so i appreciate that here let me show you something else too okay we got nobody waiting let me do this i'm going to read two verses and then go someplace else and read something another something about what this says here check this out this is acts four twenty seven twenty eight for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant jesus whom you anointed both harrod and ponchis pilot along with the gentiles in the peoples of israel to do whatever your hand in your purpose predestined to occur they were gathered against jesus so ponchis pilot and harrod those are two individuals along with the gentiles and the peoples of israel that's two people groups against jesus just talk about his killing them to do they were they were gathered by god to do with your hand and your purpose predestined to occur god predestined them to do this that's what it says but okay yeah now check this out acts two twenty three this man peters he's talking smack to the uh... to the jews he's talking smack to the jews okay and i'll go back to verse twenty two men of israel listen to these words jesus the nazarene nazarene a man attested to you by god with miracles and wonders and signs which god performed through him in your midst just as do yourselves know this man delivered over by the pre-determined plan and foreknowledge of god you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put him to death who's responsible those guys are yeah okay yeah the pre-determined and uh... all that stuff i mean it definitely makes sense obviously because he's outside of space and time so i just had a hard time wrestling with that uh... notion and and free will it just didn't uh... make sense to me but now that you say it and put it like that it definitely makes sense yeah and this is a tough one and most people they don't want to get into it they don't want to study this they don't want to have their brains trying to figure it out yeah because i think a lot of it would be coming back to write well then okay now explain pain and suffering right you know that would probably be a rebuttal that i would get well i would say god's the one who ordains it when we say ordination we don't mean that god is directly causing every bit of suffering he certainly can and in um... exodus four eleven he says to moses who makes the eye uh... blind the ear deaf the tongue dumb is it not i not me the lord i'm doing this so he does that in some instances the other instances it's not necessarily the case when i show this to people they're just blown away because they're not taught in my opinion a full scope of theology uh... about god his nature and the work of christ and all this stuff because it's too tough for people because they don't like it and they don't want to think that deeply but here's something else even more we've got nobody waiting i'll show them some more stuff to you god incited david to number israel that's second samuel twenty four one now again the anger of the lord burned against israel and it incited david against them to say go number israel and judah so god incited david to number israel but also satan moved david to number israel in first chronicles twenty one one satan stood up against israel and moved david to number israel yet it was david who sinned in doing it and that's second samuel twenty four ten it's really this is the god is greater than what's being taught in a lot of places oh it's just up to you and your wisdom your it's up to you god just gives you the gospel it's just up to you that's all it is is that what the bible says it does not make a lot of noise back there buddy all right yeah it's raining pretty hard uh... yeah that's good for me uh... but yeah i'll keep listening and what not but yeah it's raining pretty hard yeah this is theology this is the work of theology this is it's good stuff it makes a lot of people upset that's what it teaches that's what the bible says what we do with it is what was important you get the answer like you know people well how can you you know before god who allows this stuff to happen well because we have free will because we are made in the image of god and the attributes that god has given us include the idea of our limited forms of sovereignty which reflect god's ultimate sovereignty his creative work and our creative work he created life but we create organization and subduing the earth etcetera and we continue life by having children and subdue the earth so god has allowed us to represent him but in that rebellion that adam did against god he has allowed us to continue in our representative position of him as he's as we are working in the world and suffering and sin come into the world because of adam's sin and also continues because of our actions of rebellion against god so he allows evil to occur because it's his will to allow it to occur he's not the author of evil he doesn't make anybody do it but nothing that is bad that happens can occur without god's ordination what we mean by that is it has to be within his sovereign plan otherwise it would not occur it's within his plan to allow people to do exactly what it is that he will permit them to do whether it be evil or good yeah that makes sense, how do you feel about i've heard it said that the free will and the ability to make decisions is because god wants a relationship with us and you can't force love now you see that's humanist philosophy the reason god does this is because he wants relationship okay he wants relationship that came out of the book uh... by paul young uh... the shack and it's just humanist philosophy this is what he wants free will because he wants relationship no we were created for god's glory that's uh... isaiah forty three seven christ was uh... crucified for the glory of god philippines two eleven and god desires that we have relationship with him or fellowship with him through the person of christ first christians one nine god wants that but to say that you have to have fellowship you have to have free will there's truth in that but i don't like it when people say god wants this and this is why we have to be like this because elevate ourselves that's the kind of thing i stand against that they look at themselves that's why god wants free will because of me because of what i can do and and that's i have a problem with that kind of attitude yeah i didn't mean anything by faith by words but that's not what i was implying more or less a choice yeah i gotcha yeah no problem sounds great but really kind of hard to hear so i'm going to hang up and turn the radio up it'll be easier to hear because after it's raining it's just too loud alright man sound good buddy god bless well that was jim from minneapolis minnesota what he was doing was asking some of the more difficult questions uh... in theology and for a lot of people they don't have the mental energy to be able to sort through it and that's okay doesn't mean they're inferior doesn't mean they're dumb sometimes people just can't deal with it for a lot of reasons and that's okay god doesn't require that we do but he does teach these things that i'm telling you that are in scriptures so what do we do with them if you can't understand them then just submit to them and say i don't know how it works i don't know how god can sovereignly work all things and yet we also have that freedom i don't know how it works and that's a perfectly acceptable uh... answer to say i just don't know and though i have thought about this a lot over the years it doesn't mean i've solved the problems or all of the intellectual problems challenges because there are a lot of these issues that we just can't get to and that we have to we've got to try to figure them out but the scriptures do teach a lot of things about the sovereignty of god they teach that he is the one who's in control he is sovereign so check this out so in job thirty seven six through thirteen it talks about how moisture comes from the clouds and disperses from the clouds and lightning comes there and it goes on and changes direction whether for correction or for his world or for loving kindness he causes it to happen in psalm one thirty five six whatever the lord pleases he does proverbs sixteen one the plans of the heart belong to man but the answer the tongue is from the lord proverbs sixteen thirty three the lot is cast into the lap but it's every decision is from the lord daniel four thirty five all the inhabitants of the earth are counted as nothing and he does according to his will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth jeremiah ten twenty three i know oh lord that a man's way is not in himself nor is it in man who walks to direct his steps and there's more verses i just don't have time to get through them i'm trying to show you got us is uh... sovereign the cause of evil and yet at the same time we're free now how does that work now that's worth it great discussion so anyway there you go we're out of time in the word bless you and by his grace will back on the air tomorrow friday will not be on the air on monday and disorder remind you folks please consider supporting us for with anything to go to carm dot org c r m dot o r g forward slash donates we'd love it we need that support and with the word bless you and by his grace back on the air tomorrow we'll talk to you then, God bless, bye.