Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. Hey, if you want to give me a call, five open lines, 877-207-2276.

Boy, I'm missing the Matt Slick live here. Okay. Today is one of the busiest days I've had all year and I just hit the ground running and literally shoved food down my face and getting a radio. So here we are. I got to teach Bible study tonight. I got to do some tax stuff tonight. I got to get ready to the sermon for this weekend. It's a lot. Wish I could work while I was driving because I'll be driving tomorrow.

But hey, that's just how it is. We have five open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. By the way, tomorrow, I'm going to be, I will not be on the radio live tomorrow. Luke Wayne's going to fill in and he's probably going to be filling in on Monday as well because I'm going to be driving down to Salt Lake. I plan to come back on Monday and I could make it back for the radio show, but I don't want to rush.

I don't want to have any pressure. So I'm just going to have Luke do the show and Luke does great. He's been writing a lot of good stuff on the CARM website and he's been dealing with the issue of evolution, intelligent design, and things like that. He does good work.

He really does. And so, let's see, four open lines, 877-207-2276. This Sunday, I'll be down in Provo preaching at church on, oh, City on the Hill, City on the Hill.

I think that's what it is, right, Laura? City on the Hill at 11 o'clock is when the service starts. You can look it up on the web, City on the Hill, Provo. And also, let's see, where is Utah, u-t-l-m-dot-o-r-g? Because the Utah Lighthouse Ministry that's in Salt Lake City. And if you are interested, I'm going to be there with Bill McKeever this Saturday, two days from now. We're going to be there from 1 to 4, or is it 1 to 5, and just manning the store. And if you go to u-t-l-m, utahlighthouseministry.com, you can check it out. But anyway, the address is 1358 Southwest Temple Street, 1358 Southwest.

It's not too far from the... Actually, I think, I don't know, if you had a good arm, you could probably throw a baseball from the headquarters to the baseball stadium right there at 1300 South and West. So, there you go. Boy, a lot of stuff going on, a lot of stuff going on. Okay, come on by the bookstore and just say hi, you know, it'd be nice. Nice to see people who listen on the radios, say hi to Bill and say hi to me, and, or just come in to get stuff, whatever you want to do. Whew, man, busy day, busy day. But it's a good day, good to be busy. It's good to be busy.

I got so much going on. All right, let's get to, let's see, Tyler from North Carolina. Tyler, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. Doing all right, hanging in there, hanging in there. What do you got, man?

How are you? Tyler. Okay. I have a buddy who has used the phrase, whosoever will may come in defense of a free will kind of paradigm in salvation. And as a Calvinist myself, I don't think they actually know that, that comes from a hymn and not scripture, but I think the hymn is based on Revelation 22, 17. And if you could just execute that and maybe take it apart from a, from a Calvinist perspective.

It's easy. First of all, logically speaking, we Calvinists believe in whosoever will, whoever will believe. We don't have any problem with that.

That's not an issue. And what we do when I do that, I say to people, I said, we agree, whoever believes will be saved, whoever. And what they do is they say, well, that means then that the unbeliever has the free will ability just of himself to be able to believe. And I'll say, show me that in scripture.

And they look at me like, are you an idiot? No, I'm saying show me in scripture because the Bible says the unbeliever cannot receive the things of God for their foolishness to him. First Corinthians 2 14 and he's a slave of sin. Romans six, 14 through 20. He's by nature, a child of wrath, Ephesians two, three, that, uh, he doesn't do any good. Doesn't even seek for God. Romans three, 10, 11, and 12. So I say in light of what the scripture says about him, can you tell me what your position is and how it's in the scriptures?

Well, whosoever. Okay, well, let's go over it again because the Bible says these things. The Bible says that, uh, the man is desperately sick and wicked. His heart's full of evil. Uh, Isaiah 64, six, uh, it's, you know, we're dead near trespasses and sins. We're by nature, children of wrath, et cetera, et cetera.

So, so how's that possible? Because if your view is correct, if your view is correct that it's just up to their free will, then why does God have to grant that they believe Philippians one 29? Why does Jesus say it seems to be the, it seems to be the same kind of conflation with whosoever in John three 16 reading into the free will.

Right. And I was going to say that John six 65 is a killer verse because I've solved the free will. Then why does Jesus say you can't come to me unless it's been granted to you from the father? John six 65. That's a devastating verse to them.

It is. Now when you go to John three 16, that's a famous verse, right? For God's love world, whoever believes it does not say whoever in the Greek, the word whoever is the Greek word hosts and it's, um, it's no mega Sigma hosts, but what it says here is a pass hop is too long.

That's too long. That's all the believing one. That's what it literally says. So only begotten son that all the believing one in him shall not perish.

So what I like to do with people is, is, is, you know, I'm telling you this stuff quickly, but I know you know, a lot of this, the thing is, and this is for everybody's listening. Where does it say that we just have a free will ability to simply choose Christ where there's an unbeliever who's a slave of sin, a hater of God who doesn't do any good, doesn't seek for God, cannot receive spiritual things. His heart's desperately wicked and deceitful. How does he just simply believe in God?

Because right. They see the evidence, the scriptural evidence seems so just overwhelmingly on that, on that side. So to take a random phrase out of the book of Revelation out of context or something like that seems, seems a pretty fickle defense, especially when Paul says in the book of Romans that it's not he who wills or he who runs. So, so he even, yeah, he even speaks directly to the will of man as well as the actions of man. And neither of those are any accounts. That's right. So now when we look at Revelation 22, 17, the spirit and the bride say come and let the one who hears say come and let the one who is thirsty come and let the one who wishes to take the water of life, uh, without cost. There's no challenge to reform theology whatsoever there.

None at all. Right. And I think it's telling too when, when, when your defense comes from a him and not directly from scripture, I think that's, that's probably a, probably the first time that it's not a very cogent argument.

I would agree. If you're quoting whosoever will may come and it's a, it's a song of the church. You're going to understand something.

Now this is my opinion. The Christian church is only as biblical as it's biblical. And what happens is over the years, sentimentality and easy theological assumptions are allowed to creep in.

You know, John three 16 is a great one. Whosoever would believe that therefore means that it's up to the individual's free will in their sinful state. Now they're reading a great deal into the text and they don't realize that they're not looking at the whole of scripture. And essentially, this is my opinion, what they're doing is demoting God and exalting man. When you read Romans nine nine to 23 it clearly, clearly says it's not up to man, but it's a God who wills and it specifically says so. So when I show this to them, they have a conniption fit or they say that's just your interpretation and they don't, we don't even look at the text.

And the reason is, in my opinion is because they follow the blonde hair, blue eye, Caucasian surfer, Jesus dressed in a woman's nightgown dressed in a, you know, woman that's got asking permission for you in your wisdom to let them in. And if that's the case, then why does it have to be that God grants that we believe lipids one 29 or grants us repentance second Timothy two 25 or a word that we're born again, not of our own will. John one 13 or as many as had been appointed to eternal life, acts 1348 or were caused to be born again. First Peter one three, or you cannot come to me list of father granted to you.

John six 65. If this ultimatum of free will and human level is in the sinful state is so true, then why are those other verses there that say that God has to grant it to you if it's just up to your free will? Furthermore, here's another thing I have to say. I ask him, I ask him, I ask him, look, do you pray? And ask God to change the heart of people to believe. And they'll say, well, yes.

I said, well, there you go. Good reform theology. Because why would you do that? If it's just up to their free will, why would you be concerned about anything? Because it's just their free will.

Why pray? Just have the gospel given to them. And it's up to them. Right? So if you ask God to influence them, then you're admitting they need help. They can't do it on their own. Right.

Yeah. I find it ironic. The, uh, the novelist door that Jesus is knocking at the, uh, inspiration from the scripture that inspired that picture. Jesus is talking to the church. He's not talking to, uh, humanity, uh, universally, but the church specifically. Um, but in some weird way it gets, uh, conflated to me and he's talking to everyone, but yeah, I appreciate it, Matt. I always say that I never in my wildest dreams wanted to become a Calvinist and it's something your flesh just absolutely hates. And, uh, and I think that's a good thing.

I think it's a good thing when the truth of God's word, um, rubs your flesh the wrong way and, uh, it keeps you, keeps you in line. So, Hey man, I appreciate your ministry. And that's all I have for you, brother. All right, man. Thanks a lot.

Thanks for calling buddy. Appreciate it. All right. Thanks sir. All right. That's Tyler from North Carolina. We have four open lines. If you want to give me a call 877-207-2276.

Alex from Florida. Hey, you got your flipper fins on there and having a good time? Yeah. You know me, I'm just swimming in the flood water.

You know, I was going to say that what you need to do out there is just take your time. It's just take a whole bunch of like vitamin C and I mean, gallons of it, just buckets of it with a baking soda. Just put it in the water around you and just, it'll clean everything.

Might as well clean the house. You know what? I honestly, Matt, I think that would fly down here. You know how it is in Florida. People would probably be totally okay with it. That's right.

They would. So what do you got? Oh, well, by the way, are you okay? I mean, how's it working with a hurricane down there? Have you been hit? Um, yeah, so the winds got pretty bad at about 70, 70 mile an hour, went or 70, 75 mile an hour went and then a whole tree came down in our backyard. So praise the Lord. It didn't hit our house.

It went straight in a line in our backyard from the neighbor's house. Wow. Yeah. And there's still flooding in our neighborhood and stuff, but man, like, and it was funny cause my wife says, she says, uh, yeah, I was praying because I kept downplaying the hurricane and my wife says, I was praying to God, like have something happen, but don't have so much damage. So Alex realizes how serious this thing is.

That was my wife's prayer. Okay. Wow. Okay.

Well, Hey look, there's the music. So hold on and then we'll get you to the break. All right then.

All right. Hey folks, two open lines, eight seven seven two zero seven two, two seven six. Give me a call. We'll be right back. It's Matt slick live taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Here's Matt slick. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you're going to do is dial eight seven seven, two zero seven two two seven six. Let's get back on with Alex from Florida. Alex. Welcome.

You're on the air. Hey brother. Um, so yeah, so my question is, uh, there's a popular evangelical figure right now in the reform circles that's been taking a lot of heat and I, I have a question about him myself and I want to, I want you to draw a first Timothy three verse seven. What is your take on that verse?

A good reputation with those outside the church so that he will not fall under approach to the stare of the devil. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What, what? Yeah. Yeah. What's your take on that?

I mean, I've looked at the Greek, I've looked at other translations. I think it's pretty clear that if you have a church and you're an elder, you need to have a good reputation amongst the communities that you're living in. Would you agree? Yeah.

Okay. And then my second question is, is that when I'm talking to people about this, they're saying, well, what, what about Paul and Rome? And, and people were attacking the Christians and they were doing this and they didn't like him and blah, blah, blah. And they'll go back out with me at me for that.

But I'll just stick to that verse. Have you ever come across anything like that? No, not really, but I'm not understanding the problem or the issue. So, okay. So the problem is, is a good reputation. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So the problem is, is like there's a popular evangelical figure that doesn't have a good reputation in his community. And he's pretty close to home where you're at.

Who's that? Oh, you mean about Doug Wilson. Oh, okay.

All right. So in Moscow, Idaho, you know, the community does not like him. And I would say that the qualification, the elder is pretty clear that he needs to have a good reputation with those outside the church.

Yeah. I think it's an interesting point. Now here's the thing, for example, I'm not justifying anything, but I live here in, uh, Idaho and happens to be in my neighborhood. There's a lot of Mormons. And so I would not say that I have a good reputation among my, my, uh, my people in my neighborhood, you know, so once it's a Mormon missionary stopped by a guy's house. I was driving out and I rolled, stopped in the street, rolled out my window. And I said, Hey, how are you guys doing? You know, and the Mormons came out in the street and talked and five, six, seven, eight people came out of their homes and surrounded my car. And one woman said, we know who you are.

We don't want you here for real. Yeah. They're so gentle and loving. Yeah. Hypocrites. I've had that. It's just typical. And, uh, yeah.

You know, you go to Rexburg and see what happens when you open up a church and how they stand out in front of the, uh, the church with pots and pans and bang on it while you're having your service. So, um, okay. Context is everything. So if you're in the midst of an environment where unbelievers are warring against you because they hate the truth, then, okay, that's a problem. Uh, well, it's not a problem in this context. I made it verse seven, but if it's not the case where there's a bunch of, um, um, problems that are raising, because you're standing for the truth that this needs to be understood in the whole of scripture, because notice what it says, so that you'll not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. The reputation is so a good one so that you don't fall into that problem.

So what would be about it in a context of a reputation outside the church that would be something that, um, could lead to sin. So I don't know what that means. Okay. Um, well, so, you know, you're going to Utah soon, right? Yeah. The pastor, you know, there, does he have a pretty good reputation in his community? I don't know. Oh, okay. How about a pastor you do know of?

Yeah, well, I can't, I can't answer the question because I haven't gone door to door in the pastors of neighborhoods knocking and saying, what do you think of him? I haven't done that. So, you know, can't answer that one. Okay. Yeah. I was just kind of getting your take.

Cause I mean, I, I think even though Paul, people hated the truth, that's one thing like you're saying they hated Christ. Okay. We understand that.

But it, you know, he wasn't, he actually in acts, I forgot, if you can look it up, King Agrippa in acts, where Paul is talking to a King Agrippa, King Agrippa actually commended him in that sense. Yeah. Yes.

It's a difficult thing. In fact, because you brought this up, um, my neighborhood, so to speak, is really the internet. So like last night I was on for two and a half hours on clubhouse answering questions. I will spend time on discord.

I'll spend time on metaverse. I'll spend time in different venues, uh, having live conversations, voice conversations. And what I've worked on over the years a lot is being patient and being gentle such that they don't have, um, any reason to complain against me other than the logic, the scriptures that they don't like, you know, that's different.

Um, and so it's a difficult thing to do. And sometimes I still blow it and get a little uppity with some people, but that's very infrequent. And so there are atheists, for example, who hate my guts. There are atheists who I would say come over the house, here's the keys of the house. I gotta be gone for a week.

I'll see you later. And so there's a wide range of people on the outside of the church. So what then is the context of outside the church? It would seem to be in your immediate neighborhood, but not necessarily because what about outside the church does, it just says those outside the word, the church is not in the Greek there. And it seems to be, as I said with the second part, that you don't fall under approach and stare at the devil, that you are as, as good as your reputation and vice versa.

It seems to be something there. So you could have a reputation for being a good man, but not liking what he's doing. Like Doug Wilson, I'm not defending Doug Wilson, but I'm saying that he's going in and they're doing Bible studies. They're, they're doing a lot of stuff.

I have connections. I have a phone number of a guy who goes there and I could ask him questions and I could probably even get an audience with Doug and ask questions if I want to drive up or something because I, you know, I do, but the church is going to, excuse me, the unbelievers are going to hate what he does when he fights against abortion, fights against the woke mentality and stupidity. So that wouldn't be a good reputation. But what about the issue of, is he gentle? Is he kind?

Is he long suffering? Would they say, yes, he is, but we don't like the other part. So this is a difficult thing to get into because I think it's important to get into and analyze because there are different aspects of it. Okay. Well, let me ask you one more question. So if you, if you were online and there has been, you know, 20, 30 years of you having a bad reputation, would you think you were disqualified? Well, it is true. I have a bad reputation on the internet. It's also true. I have a good reputation on the internet.

So what do we do? Well, you can find, I say to people, yeah, look my name up on Google. Most of what you'll find is not true. And I say it as a joke, but there are people, there's one guy did a five hour video.

Why Matt slick is not a Christian five hours. Okay. That's ridiculous. Yeah. So I've had it from every angle, but most of them, they think I'm very respectful.

So it's mostly a good reputation. Okay, buddy. Got to go, man.

There's a break. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right then.

God bless. Hey folks, three open lines. Give me a call. Eight seven seven two zero seven two two, seven six. We'll be right back. It's Matt slick live taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Here's Matt slick.

All right. I've been welcomed back to the show to open lines. If you want to give me a call eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

Julie from North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

You hear me? Yes, I can. Okay, great. I, you know, I have to give you really good homework and you know a lot about the Bible. Some things I just don't, I don't think yet, but I have a couple of questions. Um, one was about a recent, um, color into something about the mind of Christ and having the spirit of God in them. Um, you didn't go into that very well. You said it was, um, um, narrow down what it means. Can you go into that a little bit? What exactly it means to the spirit of God in you and the mind of Christ?

Yeah. What I would think it is, is, uh, his thinking, his attitude, his desires that he has revealed in the word of God and his disciple teaching and the disciples and how they carried it out. Because, uh, you know, I thought about it, um, and did some research on it. And so to say we have the mind of Christ is to say, I think it was within reason to say that it is including the issue of his desires and will for us, for the unbelievers, for people to witness how we're to behave, how we're to love and show patience and things like that. And I think that's what's going on there. That's, that's good.

That's good. It's like, um, love thy neighbor as thyself. Is the cornerstone of the faith in Christ. It should be love the Lord to God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength because God should be the ultimate standard and the ultimate goal. And the first and greatest commandment is to love God.

And the second one is to love our neighbor as ourself. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Love our neighbor. That's, um, you know, um, I find, I find, um, listening to the spirit of God is easy. The yoke is easy. Um, what's hard is, is, is, is, um, doing it when I'm not doing it. And then it becomes hard because then you're in the world, but it's easy when I'm not. And then I can kind of stand back and say, well, um, and look at the situation.

But, um, great. Um, another thing is, um, um, I had a question about, um, um, God calls in the church. What do you mean who he calls in the church? Who he calls to do his work, to feed his sheep and things like that. You mean pastors and elders? Pastors, elders. I'm not sure I understand what your question is though.

What's your question? My question is God will call who he will. Who me too.

That's basic. God will call who he will. And I, I was looking at being a woman, an elderly woman. Um, if reading the Bible in the way I do and looking at it and a lot of ways, a lot of women do, um, like, what's your question though? What's your question? My question is, um, it judges. Um, okay. You need to, can you just ask me a specific question? I asked you a question and you started going off of different topics. So what's the question you want to ask?

Okay. Are you trying to find out about women pastors and elders? When I was reading, when I was reading in, um, I think it was Chronicles and that's when, um, Nathan the prophet was talking to David and David wanted to build, um, a temple. And then, and then God spoke with him and he said, he said, where so ever have I walked with all Israel, make I a word of any word to any of the judges of Israel who my command is to feed my people's bags. Why have you built me a temple of Peters? So God is telling the prophet to tell David he doesn't get to build this temple and he goes on to say a word to his judges.

And Deborah was a judge of Israel. Okay. I'm asking you to give me a question. Please give me a question or we're going to just have to move on. Okay. I need a question. Okay.

All right. Well, God, God, God has called women to do the work on earth. Are you trying to justify women, pastors and elders? Are you trying to get, I'm asking you a question. Are you trying to justify and support the idea that women can be pastors and elders? That's what I'm asking.

Is that what you're trying to say? Okay. We'll just move along because she's not answering it.

She's beating around the bush a whole bunch. And to go to Deborah, it's a judge in Israel, not an elder or a pastor in the church. It doesn't apply to the new Testament context because it's a different category, different thing. Let's get to Terry from Iowa, whom we lost.

It was a good question of on John three, five would love to have spoken about that. The next longest waiting is Norm from North Carolina. Norm, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Hey Matt. Hi. What do you got, man?

So, so my question, uh, I'm reformed and I, when I speak to, uh, my Christian friends, a lot of them, I guess would be four point Calvinists. And the problem that they end up having is limited at home. No. Okay.

Yeah. Can you explain that? Explain that they have a problem? Well, the problem is that they have a problem with limited atonement there. I explained it.

So, so, so what do you, what's your question? So how would you, I mean, how would you argue with somebody that, uh, that says, no, when Christ died, he died for the entire world, for the sins of men that have ever lived. Okay. And I, and I would say, no, he died for Eli.

Okay. Just ask him, did he die for everybody ever lived? Yes. Did he pay for everybody's sin who ever lived?

They'll say, yes. Go to first Samuel three 14, first Samuel three 14, behold God said, God speaking. Therefore I've sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.

So the iniquity of Eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. So did Jesus sacrifice for their sins? Apparently not.

No. And I've had him say, yes, he did. Well, okay. Let's go over the verse again.

And this is where I get into a repetitive loop while read the same thing over and over. And I'll say first Samuel three 14, I'll say the address because I want him to remember the verse says that the iniquity of Eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. And so I'll ask him, is a sacrifice of Christ included in the sacrifice or offering forever?

Well, yes. And so I have to go over this for 10, 15, 20 minutes with them sometimes before they finally stop submitting the scriptures to their understanding instead of reversing it. That's what I'll do.

That's one of the ways to do this. I say, look, that's what it says. You're just denying what it says. You're just denying what it says. I've shown this to people and it's stumped them.

And I've had people say, well, I don't care what it says. Okay. Then, then, you know, you believe whatever you want.

We're done with our conversation. Now that's one thing. Another thing is sin is a legal debt. First John three, four sin is a transgression of the law.

I'm going to give you something here and people to listen because this is logic with scripture right out of the word of God. Sin is breaking the law of God. First John three, four sin is a legal debt because Jesus says, our father who art in heaven, hallelujah be thy name thine kingdom come. In Matthew six, 12, he said, forgive us our debts. In Luke 11, four in the parallel, he said, forgive us our sins. So Jesus equates sin with legal debt. Sin is the word hermartia and debt is the word of philema. And they're different words. Jesus uses two different words to describe sin as legal debt. Why?

Because it's breaking the law of God. And I'll ask, are you with me so far? And they'll say, well, yes. I say, okay. So, um, I've got a question for you and I'll say, I have an illustration called coma man.

This is just an illustration. I say coma man and he goes to the bank on the first, uh, Monday of every month and he pays his mortgage. He likes the process.

He likes doing it and he'd been doing it for years and they know him at the bank and everything. And one day on the way there, he gets in a car accident and he's in a coma for a month. So he's a month late in his payment and he wakes up and miraculous recovery. But during this time, while he's in the hospital, a philanthropist goes and pays off his debt. His legal debt's paid. Now here's the question. Is his legal debt actually paid?

Yes. Can this coma man be held responsible for the debt that's already been paid for? No, because it's paid for. And they'll say, well, what if you personally, they'll say, what if he doesn't accept it? It's irrelevant whether he accepts it. He wakes up, he goes to the bank, I got to pay my debt. It's already been paid. The guy says, he goes, well, I don't accept that. Here's my thousand dollar check.

Pay the mortgage and the bank can't take it because the debt has been paid. It's gone. It's not made effective by what we do.

It's made effective by what Jesus did. Let me get back from the break. I'll show you and I'll prove it to you from scripture. OK, hold on. Taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, before we get to the caller, I just want to remind you to be down in Provo, Utah, on October 2nd, preaching at City on a Hill Church at 11 a.m. If you're interested in attending, you know, it'd be fine. But also, we'll be at the Utah Lighthouse Ministry on Saturday from one to four. I'll be with Bill McKeever. Bill McKeever's a world-class expert on Mormonism.

And he works every now and then with Sandra Tanner. And so I'll be there with him at the Utah Lighthouse Ministry. And that's off West Temple, Southwest Temple, just across the street, down a little bit across the street from the baseball stadium. We'll be there Saturday one to five.

You don't stop on in. Say hi. All right, let's get back on here with Norm. All right, you there?

Yep, I'm here. All right, one more verse that is an absolute killer verse. And it's Colossians 2.14, where it says, we're talking about Jesus having canceled out the certificate of debt. The certificate of debt is a single Greek word, karografon.

And it means a handwritten IOU of legal indebtedness. The certificate of debt, the sin debt. Because remember, sin is breaking the law of God. And Jesus equated sin with legal debt. And Jesus bore our sin in his body on the cross. That means our sin was imputed to him.

He bore our sin. It's by legality. Ours legally became his.

They were transferred to him. Just as his righteousness legally becomes ours, which is called justification. And that's out of Philippians 3.9, Romans 5.1. But the certificate of debt is the handwritten IOU of legal indebtedness. It's breaking the law. It's your sin debt, which is consisting of decrees. There's decrees that thou shalt not, so thou shalt, which are against us.

We've broken those laws. Hence, we have a sin debt. So having canceled out the certificate of debt, consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us, he's taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

And what I'll do is I'll say, where was the sin debt canceled? And it's not when you believe, and it's not when you get baptized. It's when Jesus died on the cross.

That's what it says. So sometimes, right, so sometimes we'll say, well, free will. So, you know, Christ died for everybody, but it's not until you believe that it's applied.

It's wrong. See, the death that's canceled, the sin debt is not applied when you believe. Justification, the righteousness of God is applied when you believe.

People don't get the difference. The sin debt is canceled at the cross. You're not justified until you believe. Having, therefore, been justified by faith, Romans 5, 1, to the one who does not work but believes, his faith is credited as righteousness. Justification is the crediting of righteousness. The righteousness of the Lord God through Christ is imputed to us.

That's Romans, excuse me, Philippians 3, 9. We have a righteousness that's not our own. People make the mistake of thinking that the work of Christ depends on our faithfulness.

It does not. The work of Christ depends on the work of Christ. The effectiveness and the truth of Christ's work depends on his work, not ours. His faithfulness, not ours. And people make the mistake of adding their own faithfulness to the work of Christ that then makes it valid to them.

No, it's not the case. He removed the sin debt and canceled it at the cross. We are justified when we believe.

These are two separate things. And they have to understand in Colossians 2, 14, that's where the sin debt's canceled. It doesn't mean we're born saved. There's another aspect called the now and the not yet. For Christ, it was his now but our not yet. And yet he bore our sins in the future. The now and the not yet is perfectly exemplified right there.

And I can expand on it quite a bit more. But he canceled the sin debt. Now, I ask people, who did he cancel it for?

Well, they say, everybody. Well, then can you go to hell for a sin debt that doesn't exist anymore? Well, you've got to believe. It doesn't matter if you believe or not. It doesn't exist. No, you've got to believe. Listen to me again. If it's not there, if it's canceled, can you go to hell for what doesn't exist? And they're stuck.

Yeah, I think it's definitely got to be a many-pronged approach. The first one you gave me, the Samuel. What was it? Samuel 2.13? 1 Samuel 3.14.

Pi of a circle, 3.1415, 3.14. 1 Samuel 3. All right.

Okay. So that'll negate that. Plus there's the issue of blasphemy. The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come. Matthew 12, 22 to 32. So those are the issues. People have to stop trying to think that Jesus is the blond-haired, blue-eyed, Caucasian surfer dude dressed in a woman's nightgown, and it's up to you in your wisdom to believe, and that he loves everybody so much that he's begging you to come in, and that he died for everybody and canceled the sin debt for everybody.

No, it's just up to you. That's not biblical theology. That's heresy. But it's what's taught in most of the churches.

Right. I mean, if you ask the, you know, the, you know, average evangelical, does he love everybody? Oh, yes, he loves everybody. Oh, okay, what about Pharaoh? Did he love Pharaoh?

That's right. And in Psalm 5, Psalm 11, 5, he hates all who do iniquity. And then there's enmity between God and people and stuff like this. People are, see, they're taught partial biblical theology, and what I did not like seriously when I became Reformed before that process, I didn't like what people were telling me. I said, no, that's not how it works. Jesus is obviously Caucasian, and he also has a really good complexion and nice kind of semi-blonde hair.

And he, you know, he's dressed really nice and nicely, and he's not going to be rude. It's up to you in your wisdom. This is what I was taught early on. And people were saying, well, have you thought about this or this or that?

And I remember every inch of the way going, I don't like that. But then, see, I believe in the Scriptures. Well, that's what it says. That's what it says. That's what it says.

And I gradually moved into that's what it says. If he canceled the sin dead at the cross, then if it's canceled for everybody, nobody can go to hell. And they'll say, well, you've got to believe. But belief is a command of God.

Believe in God, believe also in me. John 14, 1, Jesus says. And in Exodus 20, you're to have no other gods before God. The Ten Commandments. You're supposed to believe in God. But it's a law requirement.

Believe in him. And yet people say, well, that's the one sin that isn't paid for by Jesus. Where do they get this stuff? They make stuff up. And, you know, if they would believe in the sovereignty of God, and then they do this. They'll ask God to change the hearts of people.

Well, wait a minute. If it's up to their free will, why do you ask God to change? They violate it in their free will, isn't it? And they don't get it.

That's right. And the cults, get this, all cults, all false religions, deny that God is a sovereign king who elects who he desires for salvation. Every one of them denies it. Okay? Every one.

Gotcha. The way of mankind is to compromise the word of God. To not submit to the infinite majesty, holiness, and work of God who has brought all things into existence, either directly or indirectly. And that all things work after the counsel of his will. Which is why he says, as many as have been appointed to eternal life believed.

They believed because they were appointed. Acts 13, 48. And that he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1, 4. This is the work of God. But somehow, some way, we're able to pray through Christ and ask God to save more. And I don't know how it all works. But I know this. That the more I pray, the more I preach, apparently the more God's calling.

It's above my pay grade to know how it works. But this is what the scripture says. And as someone who teaches the word of God, at the time, let's submit to what it says. And I'm going to say to this to people who are listening, if you don't like what I'm saying, go check it out in scripture and see if what I'm saying is right there. And if you don't want to listen to me, I don't care. Don't listen.

Go find someone who will tickle your ears. But this is what the word of God says. And I say to people, read the word and believe the word. Change your heart, change your mind as the word of God shapes it.

That's how it's supposed to be. Okay? All right. Amen. Thank you very much, Matt. Appreciate it. Amen, brother.

All right, God bless. Let's get back to Julie because we lost her. Julie, welcome. You're on the air. Yes. Hi. Thanks for taking my call back again. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Again, talking about women in the Bible and who God will call. And he has called many women in the Bible to do his will and to... What's your question?

Bring it about. I need a question. I need a question, okay? My question is, I think you're hurting women and causing them to backslide when you deny them to follow God's will and plan for their life.

Did you really... Okay, hold on a sec. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I don't deny them following God's will and plan for their life. I never do that. I encourage them to do that. They cannot...

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. They cannot be pastors and elders because the Bible says that's not their position, okay? That's not true. That's true. Yes, it is true. Yes, it is true. Yes, it is true. Yes, it is true.

Yes, it is true. Okay, hold on. Quiet, quiet, quiet.

I have to correct you. You only have a few minutes and you're not being humbled before God's Word. The Word of God says in 1 Timothy 2, 12 and 13, Paul says, I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man but to remain silent for Adam was first created. This is the will of Paul the Apostle and he says in the next chapter in verse 15, in 1 Timothy 3, 15, he's giving instruction to the household of God. So he's saying a woman is not to be in position of authority over a man in the church. And furthermore, when you go to 1 Timothy chapter 3 and it talks about the elder and the bishop and the elder is a pastor or the pastor is an elder automatically and you go to 1 Timothy 5, 17, give double honor to the elders, especially those who work hard at preaching. The preacher, pastor is an elder. The Bible says the elder is to be aner mias gunaikas or andre mias gunaikas, a man of one woman. A woman cannot be an elder because she can't be a man of one woman.

It's very simple. Julie, did you hear what I said? I'm not taking away any respect for the position that you have in a church. How can a woman become an elder if the requirement for an elder is to be a man of one wife?

How could she do that? Well, Deborah became a judge of Israel. Was Deborah an elder in a church? Was Deborah an elder in the church? I asked you, was she an elder in the church? No. No. Julie, you're not listening.

Julie, Julie, Julie. How can a woman be an elder when the Bible says the elder has to be male? That was one guy. And if you remember that... That's one guy. That's just one guy. That's what Paul said.

One guy. Folks, look, let me tell you. This is how heresies abound. This is subjecting the word of God to your feelings, your desires, and what society says. This is the bedrock of apostasy. I tell you what it says.

I read what it says. She's not interested in what the word of God actually says. She has an agenda.

Unfortunately, it's not a good one. Men, you need to step up and do what's right in the church. Women, you need to understand. Men are called to this position, not females. I will debate anybody on it publicly. Come out to your church and we'll have a public debate on this.

Does the Bible support women faster than elders? Alright, I'll be back on the radio on Tuesday. I'll be at Utah Lighthouse Ministry on Saturday with Bill McCabe. If you want to come by and say hi, I'll be preaching on Sunday in Provo at Church City on the Hill.

Church in Provo on Sunday. God bless everybody. Hope you have a great weekend. Give Luke a hard time on Friday and Monday. May the Lord bless you and him. God bless everybody. We'll see you. Bye.