Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome to the show. I hope you're gonna have a good time. And let's see for the date. It is the day of infamy. 12-7-2021.

80 years ago today, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. All right, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Five open lines, wide open lines. Just letting you guys know a couple things here.

I'm going to tell you a couple things. One is that we're doing a month-end, or the year-end thing of the month of December. For anybody who donates to CARM, it gets matched. It's a matching fund drive. So I've talked to the main guy who supports that.

He does it once a year, and praise God for him and his godliness. And so if you're interested in supporting, if you give $25, he'll match $25, and they'll become $50. So your $100 becomes $200, et cetera. And if you were to sign up for new recurring donations, let's say $5 a month, well, 5 times $12 is $60.

That's to be all next year. So that would mean he'd match $60. And that's how it works. If you already are donating, then it won't be matched, because that's already what it is.

But if you increase it, the increase will be counted in as well as a matching funds thing. So just let you know that's what's going on. To help out, all you've got to do is go to CARM.org forward slash donate. C-A-R-M dot O-R-G forward slash donate.

And all the information need will be right there. Right now, I don't talk about money hardly ever or donations or anything. I just don't like doing it.

But we do this because of the matching funds drive. And if you're new to the show, please don't think we do this all the time. People who listen, they know. I rarely talk about it. I do. I just don't like talking about it. God provides. But it's up to me to let people know what's happening. So if they want to support, they feel motivated that way they can.

And if you don't, that's fine. And also, we have three online schools. And we charge $75 for three schools or $33 for individual schools. And they help keep the lights on, so to speak, and pay stuff, because we've got to pay the bills. We've got missionaries all over.

And this is how it works. If you like the schools, you want the schools, you check them out, and you can't afford them, all you've got to do is email us, info.com.org. Just say, I want the schools. I can't afford them. And we give them to you for free. OK, that's it. All you've got to do is ask.

And it's free. We don't ask why. We don't ask anything.

We don't check up on you. That's all it is. And so sometimes, people will actually pay for two or three schools. They'll say, put this to free schools. And sometimes, people just sign up for whatever they want.

It doesn't make a difference. We're not here to make money. What we're here to do is spread the gospel of Jesus Christ. And that's what we want to do.

So there you go for that. And now we're going to be moving around a little bit on YouTube. I've been doing a lot of research for YouTube videos. I need to get some equipment.

I have been doing, I don't know, 30, 40 hours of research on video, video editing, cameras, camera sliders, lights, audio, different kinds of cameras to get. Because what we're going to do, what I'm going to be doing is shifting from writing articles so much to doing a lot more videos. And the reason is because the youth look at videos. They don't read. It's like, what's that word? I don't know. What is it? It's the word the. Oh, OK. And so they don't really know what's going on.

But they'll watch videos. And so we're going to try and reach out. That's the way to go. And I've been doing a lot of research. I don't want to make them quick and slick. And along those lines, we're going to be doing a one-minute seminary, a one-minute seminary, where I'll be going through and producing one-minute clips, one-minute things about different topics.

I like quick and slick. I'll have to get this right to it. And so I think it'll be nice. We're going to do a lot of video, some things to keep it interesting, not just me sitting in front of the camera and staring.

And this is the Trinity in a monotone. We're going to be doing slider camera work and lighting and effects. And I'm thinking about getting a drone in order to do stuff on Mormonism.

I can fly in towards the temple from a certain height and show that to missionaries and just whatever, things in public. So I've got to buy all that equipment. And we need donations for that as well.

But I'm trying to get as cheaply as possible. But the goal, the absolute goal, is to make better video quality to reach out to people. If I can put these one-minute things or under one minute, I can also put them on Instagram and TikTok, where the youth are. And I'm going to start doing questions like, why does God allow evil in the world?

In one-minute solutions, things like that of all kinds of stuff. And that's the goal is to reach out to all people for the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ. And in light of that, I guess I'll tell you in a break about how I got attacked after I preached the gospel online.

It really was just bizarre. But along with that, also because of strategies, we're going to be moving our videos. We're moving to Odyssey.

We're going to Odyssey. But we're also going to be streaming to Matt Slick Live YouTube. And I just set it up yesterday. It's still going through the acceptance process.

It takes like 24 hours. And so what I did was I put up a link on, this is an experiment actually. I'm going to be doing this. That's where all of our videos are going to be going to Matt Slick Live YouTube.

That's where we're going to push everything. So what I did was I went to Karm and I made a page just called Matt Slick Live. And so if you were to go to karm.org forward slash Matt Slick Live, just all one word, it'll take you to a page and it'll say Matt will be broadcasted to the YouTube channel. And it gives it, but the link there doesn't have the, it has the big long name.

It's not updated to the short name Matt Slick Live. So I'm giving that now. The reason I'm saying this is because I'd like you to go in and subscribe to the channel.

Get this, even though you haven't seen anything there and there's nothing there. And I'm just going to kind of kick out of that to see if you would subscribe to that right away. And so that's a test. So if you're interested in where to find that, it's Matt Slick Live. Just go to karm.org forward slash Matt Slick Live. And we're going to be doing that. We're going to be doing with Karm videos, we're going to be doing some different stuff. I'll talk about that later. And my Matt Slick YouTube page, we're going to do something with that.

It's a little bit different as well. So I've got some plans. I've been doing a lot of thinking and lots of, let me repeat that.

Instead of saying, I got a lot of plans, I should say I had a lot of plans. Use my man voice. Okay. There's that. And, oh, there's one other thing and I can't remember what it is, but that's okay.

Anyway, so go to karm.org forward slash Matt Slick Live, and you can find the YouTube channel. And I wonder who's going to be the first one to sign up to follow. All right. Four open lines. Why don't you give me a call? 877-207-2276. Let's get to Kevin from Alberta, Canada. Hey, Kevin, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, Matt, how's it going? It's going, man.

It's going fine by God's grace. What do you got, buddy? Well, I just wanted to maybe see if I could convince you to become a panel anyone. Okay. All right. Tell me what it is first.

I'm already enjoying this. Well, it's the idea that it's all going to pan out. Yes, I think it is.

Because I trust my Lord that it's going to all pan out in the end. That's right. No, the reason I'm bringing up the whole concept of that is because I think with eschatology, last thing we want it to be is a point of division, unless, of course, it becomes heretical. Right. And I always thought it's a great perspective in keeping an open mind. Right. We can all be right or wrong on many given points. Absolutely.

The issue is that the events actually take place at the proper time. So that's why I wanted to bring it up and thought maybe we could get you the latch onto that. Well, I already affirmed that. I had another question if you have. Pardon? Sure. I already affirmed that. So what's the other question then? Well, the other one had to do with is I just wanted to get your thoughts on this.

Okay. Is that quite often when talking to somebody in regards to election and predestination, the one way I deal with the roadblock, I guess some people have, is I just ask a series of questions and that is, does God know all? And if they're Christian, they have to answer yes.

Don't be so sure. And then can God be wrong? No, he can't.

Unless you're an open theist and he can't. Yeah. Well, exactly. Therefore it's predestined.

Yeah, it makes perfect sounds. But what they'll do is they'll throw in what's called libertarian free will. Libertarian free will means that God doesn't really know what we're going to do because it's free. Cause if we, he knows what we're going to freely choose and how are we free to choose it when it's time to choose it?

Cause that's what we're going to do. And, uh, yeah, right. And so they have to reduce God and elevate man.

It's a form of idolatry that leads to and, uh, and also to open theism. Yep. That's right. But you know, I think the key thing is, is can we make free will decisions? And the answer is yes. Of course we do. And the thing is, is us making free will decisions and God knowing all, they don't contradict. No, they don't. You're absolutely right.

So you are highly intelligent, very smart. And I'm sure a humble guy, your wife, your wife, and my wife should get together. And after you're done talking smack for three days about their husbands, then they can, you know, three minutes of praise.

Cause that's about what it would take that ratio. So, yeah, I went to my doctor today and, uh, you know, I did a wellness check. I'll be turning 65 here really quickly. And, um, just wait, I had wellness check and we got talking about our wives. And I said, for some reason, my wife doesn't listen to me. You know, he goes, yeah, he's nodding. Yeah, that's right. Yep. Wonder why that is. At any rate, I think that has to do with their intelligence sometimes.

Well, if they're so smart, why they marry us? Huh? There you go.

I don't know, but they're at least smart enough not to listen. No, you're supposed to be helping me out here. Oh man.

I hope my wife's not hearing that one. Thanks a lot. I'm trying to, I need a little help I can get. That's right. Okay. So you got any other questions?

No, no, that's not everything there, Matt. All right, man. Thank you very much for everything you're doing there. You take care. You too. God bless. Have a great day. God bless.

All right. How many guys are laughing? Probably a lot. Hey, three open lines. 877-207-2276. Let's get this.

CJ right from here in Boise, Idaho. How you doing, buddy? Hi, I'm doing pretty well on your cell. Doing all right. Hanging in there, man.

All right, so what do you got? Thank you, thank you. Uh, well, so, um, I actually, I should be relative to this book here. Um, I have, I have my own YouTube apologetics channel and I recently caused a little bit of a fuss. Um, I guess you don't need too much of the context because that would just essentially be self-promotion if I gave you it, but nonetheless, uh, I made the claim that God, um, absolutely positively according to Isaiah 45, seven and Genesis 50, 20 and so on ordained evil.

That's correct. And I was, okay. So that, that was my question was to say, uh, do you agree with that? Because what surprised me, I knew I was going to get flack from the Mullinists and the LFWs and all that kind of stuff. What surprised me was getting flacked from a couple of my allegedly reformed friends who would say that that was incorrect.

And I don't understand how you can consider yourself performed and say that's incorrect. So that was really, my question was just straight over that. And you just answered it for me. Yeah. Well, let's tell you what, we've got a break there.

Let's for people who don't know what that means, what God, when He says God ordained evil, we don't mean He causes it and that's a different word, so different issue. Let's get to it right after the break. Okay. We'll talk about that.

All right. Hold on folks. We'll be right back after these messages. 877-207-2276. Welcome back everybody.

It's Matt Slick live. And, uh, okay. Let's get back to CJ from Boise.

Hey CJ. All right. So, uh, we're talking about the ordination because a lot of people don't understand what that means. So you've got a knee jerk reaction against you, right? Yeah.

And a relatively, um, severe one, if I may. Now, granted, I'm, I'm sort of glad that I did because, you know, now the conversations going around in this little tiny debate of sphere that I have in my corner of the internet. But nonetheless, um, the thing that, like I said, that kind of shocked me about it was some of the, um, some of the reforms people, or at least they claim to be reformed to took some very serious issue with my, uh, saying, uh, exactly that right. But God, and to be specific as to what I mean, um, when I say God ordains evil, what I mean is that God has first off that God is the uncaused first cause, meaning that he's the ultimate cause of all things. Um, secondly, that God actively chose to have a world with evil rather than without evil for his own righteous purposes. Um, and that's how I worded it.

And that was not taken too very fondly. And so the, the, I guess, point that I've been kind of going around and asking other, uh, higher up reformed apologists, if you will, this question is just to see, is this something that is in dispute in reformed circles because I was under the question, I was under the impression that it wasn't. No, it's really not, uh, uh, into what I would say ordination means God includes whatever comes to pass within his sovereign plan and gives things the opportunity to exist.

So that's a very loose way of saying them. So, uh, people don't understand, I have to tell people this, uh, that when we talk about ordination, uh, I remember it was a, I think it was, I forget who it was talking on, on, uh, yeah, it was James White. And he was talking on a Catholic radio show, if I remember correctly. And they asked him, dude, does God ordain evil? And he said, yes. And they wouldn't let him finish and explain what was going on, what we meant by it. Oh, so you say he caused it and that's not the position. So anything that's going to occur can only occur by God's permission.

If anything's going to occur in the world, like, like for example, this is for people who, I know you know this, but this is for people who are listening. So Adam and Eve were in the garden. Well, God knew exactly what was going to happen in the garden. And he knew that Satan would be there. God allowed him to be there. God allowed him to tempt Eve. So God ordained that that would occur.

It doesn't mean he put the devil in the garden. It means that he allowed by his choice that he would come in. Cause God could have stopped him.

Could have had a coconut fall on his head or whatever it is. He could have stopped it, but did not. And so this means that he allowed that circumstance to occur. And the allowance is part of his ordination. Nothing can occur unless it's by the direct or indirect will of God.

That's it. So a lot of people, what they don't realize is happening happening to themselves is that are becoming humanistic in that they are elevating their own free will to the level of God. God's free will to say, look, this is how it has to be my free will.

God would never do X, ABC, and they submit the Bible to themselves. In fact, a new kind of a thing I do, you've heard me say this, take your right hand, put it in front of your face. Look to your left. Now slap yourself upside the head. Another one I've got now and I say is, can you look under your feet?

Please? And they'll say, why? Just look under there. You see anything on your feet? You know? I just checking to make sure because it looks like the Bible is under your feet. Cause you're, you're, you're standing over it and upon it as you decide how it's supposed to be. This is the case with so many people. And, uh, that's what it is with this issue of ordination. I could tell you a story about this too, but go ahead.

Anyway. Yeah. Well, and the interesting thing that I've found with it too is cause I I've been, um, I have the luxury of being relatively good friends in, in a manner of speaking.

We've never personally met, but, uh, with Chris date who has performed and also with not necessarily being friends with, but having the ear of Anthony Rogers, who is performing, um, and yeah. And the, you know, explaining, you know, this with them and also with you, you know, they've, uh, reaffirmed a lot of what it was that I was thinking here, right? Uh, I think one of the state though, Chris date, you know, he's an annihilationist, you know that, right? Uh, yes. And a physicalist as well. Yeah.

And physicalism is self refuting and annihilation as it was not biblical. So, uh, I've, I've written an article mentioning him specifically along with Glenn peoples, calling them both heretics for a certain position that they've held too. That's a, that's an important issue.

Read it on Karm. Okay. But anyway, and you do, um, well, and actually I'll ask that question maybe some other time, but the point I was going to make now is I wanted to, so, uh, you know, understanding that from a reform position, this would be relatively uncontroversial. I would also want to say, um, it, when we start applying that question to other positions, um, I have recently been arguing against Molinism, uh, because I feel like it's, thank you.

Um, but you know, it's been topical because of the fact that I kind of started this little bit of a fuss, right? Um, one of my primary arguments at the moment is that, um, if the nature of the creature is determined by the course of events leading up to their birth, which William and Craig affirmed and then reaffirmed in his unbelievable conversation. Um, and if these, um, subjunctive conditionals, which are not in fact, uh, determined by an active free agent are determined then by God, um, that seems to me to be, you put X agent into Y situation and the event will inevitably occur.

I don't understand how that's not compatibleistic. It seems to me to be even more compatibleistic than maybe mine or your view might be, um, in the sense that God seems to be meticulously ordaining each individual, um, you know, each individual event that leads to this person, you know, making the decisions that they did. So basically my question in explaining all that is, um, am I a goof or is this a good argument? No, it's a good argument and you are correct.

Um, and the, uh, you know, subjunctive conditionals information in the counterfactuals dealing with Mullenism, we're losing people here as you and I talk, but, uh, it is a serious thing because James White was right in his debate to ask, well, then where are these, uh, these free will thoughts originating from and from all eternity, particularly how do they relate to the person and the human nature of Christ? So, uh, yeah. Now let me ask you, you, you go to, uh, uh, the well, right?

Don't you go to the one more time? You go to the well church, right? Oh, no.

Uh, no, actually the, the, um, if you've ever heard of ECC, I attend that church, uh, quite frequently. Um, okay. And we should get together as far as the standpoint of member yet, but we should, you know, get together and have coffee and talk stuff, you know? Okay.

Cause you know, I'm in AMPA. Oh yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah.

Just email me, you know, because we can talk Mullenism. It's, I enjoy talking to somebody who knows the terminology and the arguments and the theology and we can, you know, talk, it'd be great. All right. Absolutely. And before you go, so a couple of days ago, a couple, three days ago, I was in a chat room on discord and what happens is because I'm a public figure, I go into these rooms and I'm given special privileges where most people are not.

This is how it works there. And the people say, you know, that's fine. And so they'll, they'll come around me and they'll ask questions. And I started answering questions. And at one point I gave the gospel and I mean, I gave the gospel. Jesus Christ, God in flesh rose from the dead and I'm going to have to break.

I'll tell you what happened because it relates to what happened to you. All right, we're going to break there. Hold on. Okay. Hey folks, we have two lines. Give me a call. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back and I'll tell you what happened.

All right. God bless. It's Matt Slick live. Taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back everybody. CJ, are you still there? Yes, sir. I am. All right. So I was going to just give you a brief thing that happened a few days ago, which really disturbed me.

It really did. I don't know if you've ever heard of discord, but I'm on there quite a bit. Uh, debating, teaching, impromptu discussions, things like that. And, um, yeah, about two or three nights ago, I forgot which, uh, I, uh, I was in a room and a lot of skeptics were there asking questions. And one thing led to another is, uh, you know, the gospel is what saved. So I actually gave the gospel. I actually had people listening.

There were a lot of unbelievers present. And I talked about the, the, uh, death bell resurrection of Christ and his resurrection is a proof of who he is. And he's going to be our judge and, you know, trusting in what he did, the eyewitness accounts, all this stuff. And that, you know, trust in what he did by faith, trust, you know, I'm giving the gospel.

Right. And then this Eastern Orthodox guy gets up and he says, why would you teach that if you're a Calvinist? And then this other guy gets up and he says, yeah, Calvinism is bad.

Why would you even say that? And they attacked me personally and theologically right after I gave the gospel. And it was very interesting because they just jumped in like a bunch of maggots.

They just went right in. And, uh, it was, it was a dog pile. And I, I could not believe that, you know, these people were so angry about God's sovereignty that to preach the gospel that no, that's not the issue, Matt, you are reformed theology. That's the issue, not the preaching of the gospel, but the ref you can't have it because you're free will and all this stuff. So it's out there and it's amazing. It's amazing where people's hearts and minds are.

Oh, it absolutely is. And, and one thing I will say in, in a little bit of hope is, um, the, before I was, um, reformed, I was still, at least, you know, if you would ask me, I guess, uh, I was still saved and I will admit to having in my teenage years, fought this doctrine tooth and nail. I just, I didn't want to accept it, but I think, you know, there is something to be said about, um, God kind of humbling of a spirit, you know what I mean? If you just continuously look into the scriptures and trust what he's going to say. And then eventually I think that you end up finding a great deal of, I mean, I can only say comfort, really.

I mean, I, the only way I could describe it where it's like, when you see it from a completely different angle and it's a quite beautiful thing. Well, when you, when you're on the throne and someone talks about a theological position where you're not in the throne, you can react with a lot of violence and that's what's happening. So anyway, okay. CJ, we've got to get going.

Got callers waiting, buddy. So appreciate it. All right. Okay, man.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you very much. All right.

God bless, man. Give me a or email me. Okay. And we'll get together sometime.

Do some coffee or something. All right. Absolutely. God bless. Okay. All right. Let's get to Brian from Pennsylvania.

Brian. Welcome. Sorry for the long wait.

You're on the air. Uh, thank you very much for taking my call. I have a question about John chapter 18. And if you don't mind, I would like to read verses 33 through 36. So Pilate entered his headquarters again and called Jesus and said unto him, are you King of the Jews? Jesus answered, do you say this of your own accord or did others say it to you about me? Pilate answered, uh, am I a Jew? Your, your own nation and chief priests have delivered you over to me.

What have you done? Jesus answered, my kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting that I might not be delivered over to the Jews, but my kingdom is not of this world. In light of this passage, how do you, how do you still say that, um, the Lordship of Jesus is over every aspect of our lives? When he clearly says his kingdom is not of this world. Because when he talks about his kingdom being of the world, so the sinful fallen nature, that he is not, uh, the one who is, um, in that sinful realm as the Lord, but he is the Lord because all things occur after the council of God's will. Uh, Ephesians 1 11, they're different contexts, different, different things. Now you believe Jesus Christ is God in flesh, right?

Yes, I do. Okay. Is he omnipresent? Uh, not when he was on this earth, no. Because I said, is he omnipresent?

Uh, God, the father is sure. Okay. Is Jesus omnipresent? Uh, currently, yes.

Okay. So is he not Lord over everything since he's everywhere? Um, that depends on what you mean by Lord. Uh, and, um, if you, uh, yeah, because if you, if you mean by Lord that he, um, uh, according to your theology, anyway, that everything occurs according to his will, uh, then no, I do not believe that. And you just denied Ephesians 1 11. You just denied Ephesians 1 11. God works all things after the council of his will. God works all things after the council. Do you agree with that or disagree with that?

Well, if that is indeed true, and if you are indeed saying that, and you're saying that, uh, everything occurs according to God's will, and you're also saying that God is not the author of all evil, all sin and all suffering, then you are being explicitly contradictory. No, I'm not. And the problem, Ryan, let me just tell you, I've had this discussion countless times with all kinds of people over many, many years, and I can call on you to optimally tell you with respect, you're not understanding the issues fully.

And this is why you see. Oh yes, I am. Okay.

Um, and let me ask you this, let me ask you this. Does everything occur according to God's will? Yes. Okay.

Is God the author of all evil, all sin and all suffering? No. How is that not completely contradictory? Because you don't understand what a contradiction is and you're mixing categories. Yes, I do.

Yes, I do. Okay, Ryan, look, I'm going to just tell you, look, the Bible says he works all things after the counsel of his will. Ephesians 1 11.

That's what it says. Do you agree or disagree with the word of God on that? Well, once again, if you're going to say that God has ordained all things according to his will, and God is not the author of all evil, all sin and all suffering, I would like to ask you a question. I call to ask you a question and you're avoiding it. Okay.

It's my show. I've answered you and now I'm asking you a question out of God's word. It says also, we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to his purpose, who works all things after the counsel of his will. I just read it. Do you agree with that?

You do. Well, if you are, if you are familiar with the idea that John is not the author of Ephesians and the author of Ephesians is John, then you understand it's a different contact. Ryan, do you agree that God works all things after the counsel of his will? Do you agree or disagree? It's a yes, you agree or no, you don't agree.

Which is it? Matt, you are doing what is called question framing. You're setting things up to be answered in the way in which you are doing it. And that is in exegetical fallacy.

No, it's not. The text says that Jesus wept. Do you believe that Jesus wept or do you not believe that Jesus wept? I believe that's what the text says he did. Yes.

Okay. So the text says he works all things according after the counsel of his will. Do you agree that the text says he works all things after the counsel of his will?

Within the context of Ephesians? Yeah, we're done. We're done. Look, I just get so tired of people. Let's get to Tom from Clayton, North Carolina. Tom, welcome. You're on the air. Yes, sir.

How are you doing? Just deal with people who can't think straight and think they do, but they don't. It's just ridiculous. I do get tired of things like that. Okay.

What do you got? Yeah. Yeah. Can you hear me okay, Pastor Matt? Yes, I can, man.

I hear you fine. What do you got, buddy? Yes, I got a question for you. Have you ever heard of Pastor Geno Jennings out of Philadelphia? Yeah, I've heard the name. That's all I know.

Just the name. I wish that you would debate with him because he is saying that if you don't speak in tongues and if you don't be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and he is saying if you baptize in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, that that's not right and he is saying that you go to hell. And I told my wife, I said, wait a minute. God is all knowing. And I told my wife, I said, wait a minute.

You telling me my... Listen to this, Pastor Matt. I said, honey, you telling me that God waited till he got on earth and he's the only one right. I said, honey, I don't believe that.

I don't believe that. I told my wife, I said, my grandmother went to a ballad church and we were baptized in the Church of Christ. And the brother that baptized us had a living wife.

And my wife is saying because he has a living wife, we got to be baptized. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

So first of all, how do you spell the guy's first name? Uh, wait a minute. Let me let me pull it up right here because...

There's G-I-N-O and there's G-E-N-O, J-E-N-O. So I want to make sure you get the right one. Yeah. Wait a minute. Let me get the right one here. Hold up.

Is he out of Philadelphia? G-I-N-O, yeah. D-I-N-O, Gennady. Okay. And the name of the church is the first church group of God.

Now he says that they're the right church. I said, honey, wait a minute. Okay. Well, okay. Well, you guys got a lot to say there.

So I'm just trying to find it first so I can take a look. Hey, look, we've got a break. Hold on buddy. Okay. We'll be right back after these messages. Folks, you have four open lines, 877-207-2276.

We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live. Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, folks. Before we go back to Tommy, who's right there with us, I just want to let you guys know that I'd like you to go to con.org forward slash and put it back on HoldR for a sec.

Hold on, Tommy. Go to con.org forward slash Matt Slick live. And what we're going to do is move these shows to the Matt Slick live. YouTube is just going to be the radio shows that just go to that, that YouTube account.

And we've got some strategies and we're doing some other stuff. So if you're interested, go, please check it out. Matt Slick, go to con.org forward slash Matt Slick live, and it'll give you the link to the new Matt Slick live YouTube thing, which has nothing on it yet. And so I think it'd be kind of a fun thing to actually get people subscribing before there's anything on there because we are going to put stuff on there. And the reason I'm saying go to that page con.org forward slash Matt Slick live is because there's a bunch of letters and numbers for the URL right now on YouTube.

It's not Matt Slick live. It has to take 24 hours for that name to come up and then I'll update everything. So I just want to give you guys a heads up if you check that out. Okay. All right, Tommy.

Okay. So yeah. You know what?

During the break, man, I was, uh, I was reading up on the Gino, Jenny's guy. Yeah, you're, you're right. He's, he's a, he's a cultist. He's false. Okay.

Yeah. I wouldn't debate him. Sure.

I'd debate him. No problem. So you, so you, can you hear me? Okay. Uh, yeah, yeah.

See, see, here's the thing. My wife had phase four cancer and she was a dude and when we got to Atlanta, they told her to miss Campbell. The counter has read it and all we did was trust the word of God. And I told my wife, honey, pastor, Jenny's were on the jet with me and you went to the cancer center. Jesus was, and I said, honey, how can you fall for that? Because she said, we got to be re-baptized because my brothers, my brother's wife, brother in law had two living wives.

I said, honey, if that's the case, I got to get baptized every day. Cause when I see him, I mean, is it because of this Gino guy? Am I right?

But is it because of this Gino guy, what he's teaching? Yes, sir. Okay. Yeah. Well, just tell your wife that, uh, he's a, he's a cultist.

Okay. And he's teaching. You got to be baptized in Jesus name, not in the name of the father and Holy Spirit. And, um, and so I don't know, uh, let's see, I'm trying to find what he says about, if he says anything about Trinity. Um, and because, you know, I'm looking for a statement of faith, but I can't find it on his website. And that's always, he's saying that if you talk about Trinity, uh, there's no such thing. And he said that there is only one God, Jesus was God. Well, we know the Bible says that, right? Okay.

Well, yeah, but he's, yeah, as far as the Trinity goes, so he doesn't understand it. I'm sure. But, uh, okay. Yeah.

I, I, you know, maybe it's just so much heresy, so little time. I got so much on my plate. I'm researching videos, editing, camera work, lighting, equipment, trying to get stuff ready for video shooting to shift what I do more over towards writing and videos for reaching all kinds of people, because the media is where it's going now instead of the written word, trying to do that. And I still have to research guys like this and what I'm going to be doing just so you know, when I do stuff like this, I'll be writing articles and shooting videos on them as well. And that's the idea. I've got to get the equipment.

So I got to raise the funds for that, which might be one or $2,000, but we'll see. I'm gonna have my wife to start listening to you because I told my mom, I said, honey, pass the max speed from the Bible, melody. And I said, he even wrote another Bible. He had another Bible he had wrote. And I said, well, I said, where'd he get that other Bible from?

And the stuff he's saying in the other Bible don't line up with the King James. And I said, honey, something ain't right about him. Yeah. He's got some issues.

Doesn't have all this pause in the litter box. That's for sure. So he's a oneness guy. Yep.

He's a oneness guy. That's a problem. Yeah. Yeah. I've been debating a lot of them recently.

Yeah. Well, thank you very much, Pastor Matt. And I appreciate it. And keep the good work up. God bless you, brother. Hey, God bless you, man. If you are ever out in Idaho, just let me know, man. You got a place to stay. There was something about you I like.

You're just my kind of guy, you know? And you're all right. I will do that. Okay.

I will do that. Thank you, sir. I love you. God bless you. How are you, man? God bless, buddy. All right.

Sometimes I don't know. I just just like him. He's going for it. So I think that's good. All right. Let's get to Joseph from Tacoma, Washington. Joseph, welcome.

You're on the air. Hello again. Hello.

Hey, Matt. I'm curious. How much time is left in the show based on that? I'll judge how much to say. About nine minutes. Go ahead. Yeah, no problem.

Nine minutes. Okay. Yeah. Well, first I just want to say on sermon audio, I'm really appreciating the next day upload from the show the day before. Okay. Sometimes it hadn't been like that.

You like a couple of weeks, no uploads. And I really appreciate that. Yeah.

And yesterday's show. Luke. Yeah. I appreciate that.

Luke. Um, yesterday's show, I enjoyed that a lot and I just wanted to say, uh, you sounded good. You sounded happy. And I know that you struggle sometimes with stress, anxiety, and you said you worked out last weekend and hey, man, I just want to encourage you. You sounded good.

Yeah. In fact, I went to the gym today and a doctor today. And, uh, uh, so I'm going to get a health checkup or had one today and, uh, go to gym. I'm going to sign up to be trained, you know, in a gym to learn how to eat right. Do right. Hey, when you're 65, which I will be this week, uh, and you're not 19 anymore when you can do anything. Right away.

I'm 38. Um, I'm starting to see that. Yes. Oh man. Well then you know what?

That's what it is though. It praise God. I've made it this far and I want to just serve my Lord even longer and I got to get in shape and take care of what I am, what he's given me. So that's, that's the goal. All right, buddy.

So what do you got? Okay. So my question is in first Corinthians five 11, um, Paul readdresses how he had said, um, not to associate with certain people. And then he kind of had to clarify that he didn't mean unbelievers. He actually meant professing believers who are living in sin.

Right. And, um, the answer to when to do that with specific people may be more subjective than objective, but I'm curious then on your opinion, um, or if there is an objective answer, when do we, when do we pull the trigger? When do we cut off ties with people? Well, I can, all I can give you is my opinion since the scriptures don't give us a directive, but I would say that, um, generally speaking, if, uh, you are, you know, someone who is immoral and the word there in Greek is, uh, you know, from, is pornos. So sexually immoral covetous idolatrous or a violet drunken swimmer, you know, don't even fellowship with them. And I agree just don't show right away.

Now it's different. You know, if you go, if you act literally, some people will go into bars to witness. I know people who've done that. Right. That's not associating with them. That is reaching out to them.

What you're talking about associating is to be, be friends with, and that's what you don't want to do. Well, and then in regards to your statement you just made about going into bars, I mean, assuming those would be unbelievers, um, so the context here, though, is with specifically professing believers. Yeah, well, it says, uh, it says, I wrote verse nine, not to associate with immoral people. I did not at all mean the immoral people of this world or with the covetous and swindlers or idolatrous for then you would not go out into the world. But actually I wrote to you not associate with any so-called brother if he's an immoral person.

Yeah. And, and, you know, he's saying, you know, when you're out in the world, you have to associate or encounter people. You know, like at the gym today, I met with some people and talked and, uh, I could tell they're not believers. Well, I'm not associating with them in a familial sense or friendship way, but in a business way, that's okay. But in the issue of a brother who's supposed to, someone who's supposed to be claiming to be a Christian and they are living as though they're not, well, you don't want to be corrupted by their, their, uh, sin and don't associate with them. Warn them, say, I can't be done, same with you, you know, we're breaking off fellowship and that's what it is.

It's like, you're gone. Okay. Cause a specific example might be say a Mormon who they would profess to be a Christian, but we know that they're not. And then, um, if you had an opportunity to invite the Mormons in, and you're going to use this as an advantage of an opportunity, maybe you'd say, come over for dinner and then you'll talk about things.

Would that be wrong to do that? Knowing that they profess Christ? No, a false question. But, uh, no, it's not, uh, because you're not, uh, you're not a fellowshipping with them. See the idea of eating is different then than it is now. That's why in first John or third John or second John, let me see which one it is. It says, uh, about not even to eat, uh, with them. And the reason is, is because, uh, let me get to this.

Well, I guess I didn't find it, but at any rate, yeah, I can't find it. But anyway, the thing is that when, when, uh, eat it, when people would eat, it was a form of fellowship and acceptance. Because you would lay on your left elbow down near the ground where a one foot high table was there, kind of a thing on cushions, you would lay there and you'd take us a common piece of bread. You'd rip it and you'd rip off a short portion of the bread.

You'd kind of bend it and use it as a scoop into this, the soup or stew kind of a dish that you would eat out of. And so this was a fellowship thing and it meant to accept that person, generally speaking. And so when he says, don't even associate, don't even eat with them. That's what he's talking about in that accepting them. But if you want to have Mormon missionaries over and feed them, which is fine, and you know, they don't know what they're doing.

They don't know that they're teaching a false God, but you're trying to witness to them. That's fine. It's not a problem. You're not associating and, uh, fellowshipping with them in their sinfulness, but as an opportunity to witness to them, to get them out of their sinfulness. That's very good. Thank you so much.

If I could just go more specific with one instance. Sure. My sister fully embraces woke theology. She calls herself a Christian. She is accepting homosexuality. She has friends who are homosexuals. She may be, uh, in the closet homosexual, uh, we think possibly, um, would this be an example of that at that point?

Yeah. At that point, uh, let's just say your own sister's like that and that you find out that she's completely woke, which is idiocy and that she's homosexual, that she's lesbian. Let's just say, then what are you going to do now?

I got a problem because let me say this. I've talked to atheists and this is a video I got to work on, but I've talked with atheists who have told me that Christian mom and dad will kick their children out of the house when they find out that they're atheist, literally to pack your bags and out to the front door and close the door on them, their own children. And that what happens is the children have no place to go. And they call up the atheists and the atheists help them. Now what's this going to do to the child is going to make them feel like a Christian or love Christians.

Absolutely not. But trust the atheist. So there's this degree of, of separation. So, uh, let's just say I have a, a daughter who, and let's just say, uh, bad news, ABC sin, and this is real and she's always welcome over here.

And she was, she's always can, and she had boyfriends over and we don't allow them to sleep together in our house. And they know that. And so I don't participate in their sin, but I'm loving, you know, her and her boyfriend, whatever, you know, in a, in a godly way. So I'm not associating with them and participating in their sin nor supporting it. They know my position, my wife also, and yet, um, we are drawing a line and yet we're also loving them at the same time. And it's a difficult balance because we want them to understand that we love them, but we don't approve their sin.

And that's where I think we have to try and work it the best we can. Boom. We ran out of time. Sorry about that, Joseph. All right.

Thanks, Matt. Call back tomorrow if you want to talk about it. I appreciate your interest. Oh, of course. All right. All right. God bless. Okay. Well, that's a hard one to work through.

It is, but it's worth discussing because a lot of people have to deal with that. So may the Lord bless you and by his grace, ladies and gentlemen, we'll be back on here tomorrow. Ladies and gentlemen, males and females. Yeah. Hey, God bless about tomorrow. Another program powered by the truth network.