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It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. You know, I was in the car with Nancy the other day, and I remembered something. Our younger daughter, Megan, is in her late 30s now, married with two wonderful teenage kids. And when she was a little girl, she asked me a question about some kind of bug or fly or whatever it was.

And I didn't know the answer.

So then I saw her write down the question on a little piece of paper and she put it in her pocket. I remember those skinny little legs and those skinny little jeans, a little meg. And she wrote the question down, put it in her pocket. I asked her what she was doing. She said, well, when Jesus comes, she'll ask him.

I don't know what happened to those jeans or to that piece of paper. There are a whole lot of questions we'll get to ask the Lord in eternity. And I imagine a whole lot more questions will come up forever and ever and ever in the adventures in which God sends us. But right now, we'll do our best to answer your questions. Here's the number to call 866-34Truth.

Michael Brown here. Your joyful voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. 866-348-7884. Any question of any kind in any area of expertise I have. Before I go to the phones, here's a question from Nassim.

Hi, I'm 21 years old. Got saved less than a year ago, listening to people on YouTube like Paul Washer, etc. But recently, my life has radically changed. I have a desire to obey Jesus and read His Word and grow. In holiness.

So Nassim then explains how he began to share with his mother about various, quote, false teachers. These would be Christian leaders with different emphases in their message, maybe an overemphasis on prosperity or faith or something which Nassim understood to actually be false teachers. And then the question came up in the discussion with him and his mother about tongues, which he felt were demonic. And now He's wondering, well, maybe the Spirit of God is working through some of these charismatic men that I've labeled false teachers. And I thought the tongues was demonic.

And now I'm wondering, have I committed? The unforgivable sin? That is Nassim's question. Let me speak to you plainly and clearly. No.

No, no. No. As a sincere young man trying to follow Jesus and perhaps speaking a little rashly. And a little bit beyond your knowledge. You said some things you shouldn't have said.

They were done in ignorance. In other words, If you did speak wrongly about someone in the Lord, if you did speak wrongly about a gift of the Spirit. if tongues in fact are for today, as I believe they are scripturally and experientially. If you spoke against these things, you did it ignorantly, not knowingly. God forbid, Nassim, that you would know that this was the Holy Spirit, or that you would know that someone was a man or woman of God, and that knowingly you would speak against it.

You wouldn't do that because you love the Lord and you want to please him.

So be at peace. Don't worry that you somehow committed the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Spirit, of attributing the works of the Spirit to the devil. Paul said in 1 Timothy 1 that he received mercy from God. He was a blasphemer. He persecuted believers.

He was a violent man. But he said he received mercy because he acted ignorantly. And in unbelief, God is incredibly patient and loving and kind. He's not there with a big stick waiting for one wrong moment, boom, and he's going to get you. That's not how he is.

He's holy and he is righteous and he is just, and there are consequences for sin. But God's desire and heart is to bless us and to do good to his people as we honor and follow him. Here's the one word of advice I'd give you. Yes, there is error in the body. Yes, there are false teachers masquerading as true preachers.

Yes, there are abuses of things that purport to be gifts of the Spirit and really are not. Don't make that your major focus in crusade right now. Make your major focus growing in the Lord, getting closer to Jesus, becoming more and more like Him, and winning others to Jesus. And let others right now fight some of the heresy battles. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us on the broadcast. You've got questions, we've got answers.

866-348-768. 7884 Michael Brown. Delighted to be with you. Be sure to check out my latest articles and videos, what you're seeing happening in the world around you. Oh, you're frustrated about this.

Oh, you don't agree about this. Hey, let me be your voice. We're probably addressing these things in writing, on video, on the radio broadcast. And this way, you can share them with your friends. Go to ask Dr.

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They're informative, they're helpful. Just go to askdrbrown.org. And when you're there, sign up for the e-list. And I've got a free e-book to send you, a fascinating e-book, Seven Secrets of the Real Messiah. All right, let us go to the phones and we'll start in Canada, Nova Scotia.

Graham, welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Brown. Hey. Hey, so I really wanted to thank you for your ministry.

My wife and I and the rest of our family or her family recently. laugh the Jehovah's Witness Organization really. Yeah, I would say that the debate that you did with James White against Anthony Buzzard. Had played a key role for me in beginning to accept the deity of Christ.

So I wanted to express my appreciation for that. I'm so glad to hear that. Graham, how long were were you and your wife in the Jehovah's Witnesses? Oh, we're both thir uh third generation. Really?

So we were born in it and yeah.

Now, have have you uh come to a place where you can look back at Jehovah's Witness is not just wrong doctrinally. But as not bringing you into a relationship with the living God, and now. On the other side, looking at having a relationship with the living God. Yeah, I would say so for sure. I mean, um We've really from reading the Bible, the New Testament.

we started to realize how how beautiful a gift we have in the sacrifice of Jesus, and it's just a free gift of grace. There's nothing we can do to slave away to earn it.

So that's really remarkable. And just this idea that you can trust alone in Jesus for salvation and you don't have to worry about rule keeping or listening to the governing body or whatever, it's been really refreshing. Oh, thank God that is so good to hear. How old are your kids? What's that?

How old are your children? We have a two-year-old and a one-month-old. Ah, so you get them started the right way now. Let me ask one other question, Graham. And it's so good to hear this, and I'll make sure I pass this on to Dr.

White. And for those listening and watching, Graham's referring to a debate that Dr. White and I did a few years back. It was on Jewish Voice broadcast, and it was against Sir Anthony Buzzard and Mr. Joseph Goode.

And the question was: Is Jesus the eternal Son of God, or is he just a glorified man? And I was asked to do this debate and needed a partner. I said, Hey, Dr. White lives in Phoenix. We're co-workers.

Let's do it. So it was the first time we were able to team together on something. And amazingly, we've been looking to debate any two guys for many years on any other subject. We're not finding takers. But, Graham, from the inside, you were raised in this.

We relate to Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on doors and being zealous, and of course, using a strange. Translation of the Bible and having some very odd beliefs and things like that, but you know, very devoted and hardworking. Is there some type of legalistic pressure on you to be devoted and hard-working as a Jehovah's Witness? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is something if you ever want to have a chat about it for a long time or a couple hours even, I'd be willing to do it.

Sure, there's a pressure.

So, I was a ministerial servant, which is like a deacon. If you if you weren't spending at least ten hours a month knocking on doors. you'd get taken aside and talked to about your numbers.

So I mean, they record you have to record how many hours you spend.

So you've got to turn that in. Every month, you've got to turn that in, and there's accountability with that. Oh, yeah, and it's, I mean, it's not just that. You record the number of pieces of literature you place, the number of people you talk to.

So it's pretty, yeah, it's definitely legalistic. And I mean, that's considered a benchmark. of your spirituality. Any position within the organization, that's pretty much the first thing they're going to look at. If you're going to be promoted to be an elder or ministerial servant or you're applying for some kind of special school, like a missionary school or something, they're going to look at your permanent service record.

It's kept on a permanent file. And then what was your best hope? In other words, since you didn't have the hope of eternal life, since you didn't have the assurance that if you were to die, you would go straight into the presence of God, you didn't have the assurance that your sins were forgiven. Of course, it's not a license to sin. It's an incentive to holiness.

But you didn't have assurance that you knew that you knew that your sins were forgiven and that you were in right relationship with God. If you were to die, you'd be with Him immediately.

So what was your best hope? What were you working towards? What were you hoping for?

Well, it's kind of interesting because I mean, it might be something that a lot of witnesses don't think about that much. But I mean, the the hope is to live forever on earth.

So I think I think how would you go about doing that? Yeah, how would you go about Securing that. That that's well it's not like it's not possible in this life, right?

Okay. For a witness. You're forever you're bound to the decrees of the watchtower, regardless of how those stack up against the Bible or your conscience. I mean, right. You know, certainly they've if you take a a blood transfusion, you get kicked out of the organization.

And they flip flopped they flip flopped a number of times on doctrines that are life or death matters. I mean, where between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen eighty one, accepting organ transplants was a disfellowshipping offense.

So They had been okay, and then, you know, whatever spirit is directing. The organization, it's not God's spirit, but it decided that.

now this was going to be a disfellowshipping offense and then Since nineteen eighty one or so, it's been back the other way.

So, I mean, that kind of thing, you're expected to obey, you know, the the rules of men rather than the the word of God. Yeah, you know, what when I first came to faith, I read a book by a fellow within the first few years I was a believer called 30 Years a Watchtower Slave. And he went way back early on in the organization when they were getting ready for the return of Jesus in 1914. And he was wondering if everything was going to end. Why were they expanding their printing capabilities and different things like that?

And then, of course, when that didn't happen literally, then it had to have a spiritual interpretation and all these kinds of crazy things. But yeah, for me, what's always been the saddest is you've got people working so hard. And without the hope of eternal life, you know, just being faithful slaves to make it into the millennial kingdom and somehow earn their way. And I remember, Graham, some years back, two guys came knocking on my door. We were living in a little rental then in a small community and two Jehovah's Witnesses and one was in training, so he was even newer at things.

So of course I knew what they believed and fundamental error, but I didn't want to smash them with the theological debate. And I let them give their pitch. And then I talked to them about my own relationship with God and knowing God and having eternal life and being with him forever and intimacy with him and knowing him as father and my sins are forgiven and what a joy to live for him and the power to live a holy life and all of this. And I said, so what are you offering me? That I don't have.

And the one, the trainee got, well, it's all about hope for the future. You know, the world's going to get bad. I mean, it was so, I felt so bad for them. And normally when they're coming by, you know, when the weather is hot and they're, you know, they're guys in long-sleeve shirts and suits on, and it's like, oh, these poor guys. But knowing what's behind it, even more and the legalism and the lack of life makes it all the more sad.

Graham, thank you, sir, for calling. I'm thrilled to hear your story that of your wife. If you ever want to shoot us a note that I can pass on to Dr. White, you can do it through the website, askdrbrown.org. But God bless you and wonderful fruit and life ahead for you on your journey with your family.

Thanks, sir, for calling in. 866-34TRUTH. Let us go to Joel in Lake Isabella, California. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Hey, Dr.

Brown, how are you? Doing well, thank you, sir. First I want to thank you for helping me uh stay up late and paint my whole house last night. I listened to about, uh three or four of your broadcasts.

Well cool. How how did the painting go? Did you stay on track? Yeah, yeah, it looks good.

Well well good. I mean you're out there in California, but I probably wasn't much behind you because I'm a late night person even even though I'm an Eastern Standard.

So glad to keep you company while you paint it. You did the hard part, I did the fun part. But thank you.

So my first question I have is Me and a friend were talking about, um Luke seven. 31 through 35 the other day.

Okay. And like. That's party. The part where he says what can I compare I think the children of this or the people of this generation too. And then he says they're like children Who are in the streets when they say we played the dirge and you didn't mourn and we played the food and you didn't dance.

Like I can Kinda good. Like I'll tell you what, we got a break here. We got a break, Joel. You got just a short while to go back to painting, all right, if you need to. But I'll be back here momentarily and we'll finish off your question.

We'll be right back. Angel world O God of burning, cleansing flame. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on today's broadcast. You've got questions, we've got answers. Phone lines open 866-348-7884.

I want to go back to Lake Isabella, California, Joel.

So, in Luke the 7th chapter, Jesus has been ministering, and messengers come, of course, from John the Baptist, John the Immerser, who's been in prison. Are you the one to come? Should we look for another? And he talks about The miracles and what's happening, and how the poor are having the gospel preached to them, etc. Go tell that to John, which John will recognize that I'm the one when you say this.

And then he begins to talk about John and why were the crowds attracted to him, etc. And he begins to talk about how fickle. the generation is. And now he likens that to children. And he says they're like children sitting in the marketplace calling to one another, We played the flute for you and you didn't dance.

We sang a dirge for you, you didn't weep. In other words, we played happy music for you and you didn't dance. We played sad music for you, you didn't weep. Meaning, well, John the Immerser comes and he's abstinent, he doesn't eat, drink, he's fasting all the time, he's living in the wilderness, he's separated, you say, ah, he has a demon.

Okay, so now Jesus comes and he's with the people and he's sitting and eating and drinking with them and they say, ah, he's a glutton and a drunkard.

So he's saying however this generation, they're just rejecting everybody. It doesn't matter how you come. They're going to reject John because he doesn't eat and drink. They're going to reject Jesus because he does eat and drink. And that's his way of illustrating it.

Interesting.

So So the children in the parable are are the people and their fickle ways. Yeah, it's just like children. In other words, th this generation, the people of this generation are like children, thus and such. He's not saying they're childlike. He's comparing them to children who reject this and who reject this.

It would be like saying, you know, this generation is like your kids and you give them food that's hot and it's too hot. You give them food that's cold and it's too cold. They're just not satisfied with anything. They're going to reject everything that comes and label it negatively.

So that's the point. Gotcha, awesome.

So then I had a another question And I kinda just wanted to pick your brain and hear some of your thoughts on it. I'm going to be speaking uh this Sunday at my church on uh Reward. Mm-hmm. You know, we have like I want to leave aside the subject of, you know, salvation. Like I know we're saved by grace through faith.

Mm-hmm. But then there seems to be clear Uh Indication that there's rewards in the kingdom. Absolutely. You know, like, what are the rewards? We have the Sermon on the Mount.

And you'll be rewarded if you pray this way or this way or that way. And John 14 saying that if you obey me, my Father will come and make your home with you. And you're the faithful servant. But then, really, The verse that uh This has really been speaking to me as the Corinthians First Corinthians three, eight through fifteen. Exactly.

About everyone's work is going to be tested, and some are going to go up in smoke, wood, hay, stubble, and others will endure like gold, silver, precious stones. Yeah, Luke, in short, there are two sides to this. And you're right, it's not talking about salvation. Salvation is a free gift, and the person saved in their last moments of life is saved just as much as the person that got saved when they were a little child growing up. Salvation is a free gift.

Eternal life is a free gift. But there are definitely rewards. For example, Matthew 6 in the Sermon on the Mount, when Jesus talks about if you pray or if you fast or if you give and you do these things in secret, your Heavenly Father will reward you or some manuscripts will reward you openly. A lot of that's talking about in this world. It's talking about in fellowship with God and intimacy with God and experience the blessing of God.

But certainly, and this is the other part, a lot of it's talking about the world to come because Jesus talks about the religious leaders. They have their reward already that people praise them. Oh, look at how spiritual. At how holy you are based on what they do outwardly.

So that's all the reward they're going to get. It's very clear in the parables that Jesus gives, many of the parables about accountability and then reward. And as you mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3, which is either speaking about all believers or about those in particular who are building up the body or church planters, you might say, certainly there is going to be accountability for our deeds. 2 Corinthians 5 and Romans 14 both say that we will appear before the judgment seat of the Messiah to give account. Again, this is not for salvation.

This is not giving account in terms of, well, I didn't pray enough, so I'm going to hell.

Well, I gossiped a little, so I'm going to hell. No, it's not that. It's as a believer, here's the assignment that was given to you. Here's what your father called you to do. We are sons and daughters relationally, but vocationally, we are servants.

We are bondslaves of the Lord. Here we are. Use us, send us.

So we will give account to God on that day. And there will be rewards.

Now, what kind of rewards? We don't know exactly what's going to happen through eternity or even exactly what our role will be through what I believe will be a thousand-year millennial kingdom on this earth. But it could well be greater authority. That there is still governance and responsibility in the world to come.

So there could be greater authority. There could be greater responsibility. There could be greater ability. There could be Experience of God that someone has because they have a greater capacity for God, so that they may start in a place that is more advanced in the world to come. Certainly, you've got to imagine that the Apostle Paul enters the world to come in a different way than the thief who was saved on the cross.

They're both equally saved, equally forgiven, equally loved, equally children of God. But certainly, Paul had advanced to a certain place.

So we don't know exactly what it's going to look like. But certainly, what I want to do, number one, out of love for God, I want to live for him in such a way that he says to me on that day, well done, good and faithful servant. I want that smile and that approval because I love him. And number two, as the old poem of C.T. Studd went, only one life will soon be passed, only what's done for Christ will last.

I want to make the maximum impact I can. I've only got one life. Even if I live to be 90 or 100 years old, I was active till the end, only one short life to repay my debt of gratitude towards the Lord. Only one short life to reach this generation. Our missions directorate at Fire School of Ministry made the comment some years ago.

I don't know if this is the last generation, but it's our last generation.

So the great commission for this generation has been entrusted to us. I want to do my best to run my race, not under condemnation, not to win brownie points from the Lord, but having found the favor and love of God, I want to run my race with everything within me to please him. And in so doing, I'm not doing it for the reward, but I know that there will be a reward. The greatest reward is seeing his smile. but there will be other rewards with it.

How that pans out. Only God knows. You can meditate also on some of the parables found in Matthew 25 for some further insight as well. Hey, thank you very much for the call. 866-348-7.

884 is the number to call. Hey, just a special word to all of you watching the broadcast as we film many of our Friday Line of Fire shows. Remember, we're on the radio two hours a day, five days a week. Our Thursday show is thoroughly Jewish Thursday, Monday through Wednesday. We're hitting on all kinds of other topics, what's happening in the news, issues in the church, theology, Bible, all kinds of things.

Phone lines open. Great guests as well. You can listen to all the shows at thelineoffire.org. You can subscribe to our podcast there as well. Just click on listen.

And don't forget to get our free e-book, Seven Secrets of the Real Messiah, when you sign up for our weekly e-blast. Jesus is Lord of all. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Did you know that every Bible translation in a way is a commentary in itself? that as much as you do your best as a Bible translator, be impartial.

As much as you do your best to just look at the words, look at the words, look at the words in context, look at the words the way the author of this particular book uses them, look at the words in light of the larger context of Scripture, as much as you do your best to do that and be objective, there's still choices you have to make in translation, and there's still interpretation. Where does a quotation begin? When does it end? And that's why you'll find differences in different translations, even different faith traditions, a Catholic translation versus an evangelical translation, a Messianic Jewish translation versus a traditional Jewish translation. And it's good to compare versions.

You'll get insight. This is Michael Brown. You are listening to and watching the Line of Fire broadcast, 866-348-7884. You've got questions. We've got answers.

Before I get to your phone questions, we've got some fascinating questions here I want to get to in a moment. Before I get to those, got an email question that deals with translation, and it is from Taffy. Can you please help me understand Psalm 109? I've looked at different translations. Most translations seem to agree.

But the complete Jewish Bible differs. Can you please help me understand whether Psalm 109, 6 through 20, is the prayer of the righteous man or the false accusation levied upon him by his enemies? In other words, in Psalm 109, there is a litany of curses. All right? And it starts, be not silent, O God, of my praise, for wicked and deceitful mouths are opened against me, speaking against me with lying tongues.

They encircle me with words of hate.

So it goes on talking about the evil things that people are doing against the psalmist. And then beginning in verse 6, appoint a wicked man against him. Let an accuser stand at his right hand. When he is tried, let him come forth guilty. Let his prayer be counted as sin.

May his days be few. May another take his office. And on and on it goes, right through verse 20. May this be the reward of my accusers from the Lord of those who speak evil against my life.

So it ends the previous verse, English translations, verse 19. I should say Christian translations, verse 19, Jewish translations in verse 20, same verses, just different numbering.

So verse 19 in our English translations may be like a garment that he wraps around him, like a belt that he puts on every day. In other words, bad stuff, bad stuff, bad stuff, bad stuff, bad stuff. And then back to the psalmist saying, May this be the reward of my accusers from the Lord of those who speak evil against my life.

So here's the question. is the psalmist calling down all these curses against those who do evil to him.

Now, this is before Jesus has taught us to bless those who curse us and love our enemies. You have that ethic to a certain degree in the Old Testament, but it's brought into much more focus through the coming of Jesus, who calls us even higher.

So, as the psalmist saying, there are people doing evil to me, God judge them. And I'm going to be very specific in how I'm asking you to judge them. Do this, and do this, and do this, and do this. Or. Is this now the psalmist quoting all of the terrible things being spoken against him.

May this happen to you, may this happen to you, may this happen. And he's quoting all this, and then at the end he says, Lord, may that happen to them. Either way, He's wishing that those wishing evil on him will suffer that evil. He's wishing that those who curse him instead will experience that curse. That seems plain.

But this is simply a matter of interpretation. In other words, the Hebrew doesn't tell us any more than the English. The complete Jewish Bible is following a Jewish traditional understanding that this is a quotation here. All of these verses, the psalmist is quoting the evil things being said against him, and then he's saying, may that come upon him. The other understanding, as we have in most of our English translations, is that this is what the psalmist is invoking.

Which one is accurate? That's a matter of study and interpretation. In other words, if there were quotes around these verses or not, as the psalmist quoting others, there's nothing in Hebrew to indicate quotes.

So it's a matter of interpretation. What I'd encourage you to do is study it, look at the different versions, look at other Psalms that are similar, and come to your own conclusions because the Hebrew itself doesn't tell us either way. We'll be right back. It's fire we want, for fire we Please stand the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, friends, to the line of fire, 866-348.

7884, you've got questions. We've got answers. Let's go right to the phones. Pastor Eric in Chicopee, Massachusetts. Thanks for calling the line of fire.

Hi, Doctor Brown. It's uh great to talk to you again.

Well, thank you. I had a question. This week, I see you've been talking about issues regarding I think what was it this week or last week was Earth Week, and you've been commenting on that some. My question is: this: You spoke about how you came to change your views on the rapture by simply reading the scripture and realizing that. To have a pre-trib view, you kind of have to have some kind of an outside influence.

Yeah, that was my own view. In other words, to catch everyone else up. When I came to faith, I devoured the word, read the word day and night. Our church discouraged reading other books the first year or two, just read the word.

So I read the word day and night, day and night, and memorized thousands of verses and read through the Bible cover to cover about five times. And if you ask me, why do I believe in the deity of Jesus? Why do I believe in Jesus being the Messiah? Why do I believe that Jesus died for our sin? You know, whatever you wanted to throw at me, fundamental doctrines, I give you verse after verse after verse.

Someone asked me about the difference between the rapture and the second coming. I remember thank you a lot. But I don't know much about that somehow.

So I bought all these books by fine Christian men that explained the dispensationalist view and that there was a pre-trib rapture. Of course, that's what I believed, but now they gave me all the evidence for it in the scripture and answered the objections.

So I became very dogmatic on that. And then a few years later, it dawned on me when I read a book questioning the pre-trib rapture, it dawned on me that I got this by reading other books. Rather than just reading the word for myself, when I went back to reading the word for myself, I concluded that it wasn't there. Although, to be clear, there are fine Christians that hold to a preacher of rapture. There are friends and colleagues of mine that hold to a preacher rapture.

And there are folks I've worked with for as long as 20, 25 years. And I don't even know what they believe about a preacher rapture because it's never come up in our ministry conversation.

So this is nothing I divide over, but correct. I do not believe in a preacher rapture. And in my view, you would have to have some outside guidance to say, well, there's this whole system, there's a secret rapture, and then the public appearing, and there's a seven-year period in between, and so on and so forth. To me, you wouldn't get that if you were just locked in a room reading the Bible by yourself for a period of years. My opinion.

Amen. Amen. And I got to say real quick that I went through a similar experience, although I was a little longer in coming to the party than you, but a similar experience. You know, as I, the more I listen to you over the last five years, it just kind of helped give some validation to that for me. And so I appreciate that.

But the specific reason I called is kind of applying that same principle for me. When I came to faith in the Lord, Although I had grown up Catholic, it was a kind of wink and nod kind of thing. They would tell us, well, You know, the Bible teaches about the creation of the heavens and the earth, but evolution is true. And so when I came to faith in the Lord, I kind of held to. what some would probably describe as a theistic evolution.

But the more that I read the scripture, I kind of had the same experience. I said, well, gee, just a plain reading of scripture. I I can't. I can't arrive at that.

So, I wanted to get your thoughts on that. You know, just kind of the same principles that you applied in talking about the rapture, you know, and applying that to the creation narrative. Yeah yes sir.

So let let me answer that on on two levels. One level is: Can there be any evolutionary process within God's creation? If all I was doing was reading scripture, Would I see the possibility for that? I would say yes, meaning what's called microevolution versus macroevolution, evolution within a species as to between species. Why would I say that?

Because what's drilled home in the creation account is everything reproduces after its own kind. Right?

So cats reproduce cats, dogs reproduce dogs, humans reproduce humans, orange trees reproduce oranges, apple trees reproduce apples.

So could there be variation within that? Could there be growth and change and adaptation within that? The Bible would not say that that couldn't happen. But could Hats. Produce dogs, or could humans produce cats, or could you have now crossing over species?

That, to me, I would say no. I would say the Bible would be against. And as far as I understand, the best science would agree with that and would say that Darwinian evolution remains wrong and quite fallible here in terms of it's never proven, demonstrated that there is evolution from one species to another.

So that's on the one level. I would say that you could have micro evolution, but not macro evolution. As far as the age of the earth, would I hold to a literal six-day creation and the earth less than 6,000 years old? The genealogies would point me in that direction. The genealogies say in Genesis 5, Genesis 10, they would point me in that direction, in that it would say, so-and-so lives this number of years, then has a child, then lives this number of years.

And the only other way to read that is so-and-so has a child, who had a child, who had a child, who had a child, whose next famous child was this name. And then goes on from there. It's possible to read it like that. You might have evidence from ancient and reasternant genealogies, but the genealogies would point to a young earth. On the flip side, In my own view, and this is something I meditated on deeply when I was doing my doctoral work in Near Eastern languages and literatures and reading a lot of ancient Near Eastern literature.

As I was thinking about the subject of cosmology.

So the origins of the world. Why did the ancients write their stories? About the creation of the world in Egypt, in Babylon. Why did they write their stories? It was not.

A quest for science. It was primarily to talk about the particular deities involved. And so I asked myself the question: within the Bible, What function does Genesis 1 have? Within the Bible, what's it teaching? Why was it written?

I'm not saying it's scientific or not scientific, not even addressing that. I'm saying, why did God give it to us? within the scripture, what role is it? And it talks to us about God. about the one true God.

And about this transcendent God, and how He brings light out of darkness, and how He brings order out of chaos, and how everything follows according to His word. And the more I meditated on it, and then when I looked at how the subjects of Genesis 1, of light and darkness, and day and night, and sea and dry land, and order and divine word, how those were carried out through the rest of the Bible. I realized that to ask scientific questions was not the purpose of Genesis 1 or to answer scientific questions.

So I'm not reading it as a scientist. I'm just reading it as a student of scripture and saying, what's it there for?

So based on that, I saw no reason to say that it would be six literal days. It could well be. But I saw no reason to interpret it like that. In other words, that was not the message that was coming across. I would say if I was just reading the Bible, didn't know anything else, the genealogies would point towards a young earth creation, but Genesis 1 itself would not.

Genesis 1 itself would be there to send a theological message in a structured, ordered way, and through that to give me a picture of who God is.

So those are the conclusions I'd come to as best as I understand reading this in a vacuum and without knowing much either way outside of that. All right? Sure. Could I ask you one quick follow-up? Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Sure. Okay. Um now I and you went in in just the direction that I was that I was going and and that's with reference to those six days.

Now, for instance, I know you've interviewed Ken Ham, okay, and just as an example, Ken Ham, the president of Answers and Genesis. And And the view that they will take, and I know you've addressed the use of the word yom. Uh that that can refer to or yum uh that that can refer to an an age or a period, correct?

Well, no, it's not that I've said it can refer to an age or period. Uh it my my point about yeah, yes, it can, like the day of the Lord, obviously. Right. Right. It does not have to be a 24-hour period.

Right. And then even, for example, the word day, it's used two different ways already. It's used for a 24-hour period, and it's used for daytime versus nighttime within Genesis 1. And then what you have immediately after in Genesis 2, the beom, which is a preposition followed by yom, beom, in the day of, in the day when. And in Hebrew just means when.

And you have that over and over and over again, beginning in the second chapter. Beom, just meaning when. I would say most likely that people in ancient times who were looking at this and reading six days the Lord created heaven and earth, they would have no reason to not think it was 24-hour days. And I fully respect Ken Ham and Jonathan Saferty and various other young earth creationists. I've had them on along with you Ross and others from Reasons to Believe who are old earth creationists.

But to me, the Hebrew evidence can easily go either way. The genealogical evidence would be a larger argument to me, but the evidence about the use of the word day that could go either way in Hebrew, I don't believe it's absolute in terms of what conclusions we come to. Yeah, I think the the thing that they've always focused on was Was in and if this would only be in chapter one. When, for instance, you know, the first day, there was evening, there was morning the first day. And so, you know, the argument there is: well, you know.

They seem to be going God seems to be going great lengths to say Right, well if in fact you had such a thing as normal day and night at the time of the beginning of the creation of the universe, which doesn't exist yet.

So this is just dividing it into darkness and light and giving it names. It doesn't say the timeframes involved. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame. Send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thank you so much for joining us on the line of fire, 866-348-7884. I just want to make one more comment to be clear about use of the word Yom, day, in Hebrew.

Here's the simple explanation. It's the same as the English word day. All right.

So day can mean daytime. J can mean 24-hour period. The day of the Lord can be referring to a period. Is it days? Is it weeks?

Is it months? Is it a certain time frame in which God is doing a particular thing? It can have that ambiguity as well. It all depends on context. And there's a Hebrew phrase, beom.

literally in the day of which simply means when.

So Biom in the day That just means when. It could be referring to a one-month period. In the day of the Civil War, it could be a period of several years.

So the question again is context in how something is used.

So you see, yeah, but every time you have morning, evening, and then day in the Bible, it's talking about a 24-hour period. Yeah, because all the time it's being used is after creation when you have 24-hour periods on the earth. All right, were there 24-hour periods in Genesis 1? Could be. Doesn't have to be.

This is before everything else is established, before there's even sunlight, moonlight established. When is that? On the fourth day? But you can freely say, no, no, no, I believe in an old earth. No, no, no, it has to be a young earth.

I just urge you, don't divide over it. Don't divide over it. You might say science goes this way or that way. Fine, have the scientific discussion, have the biblical discussion. But as someone who's devoted many years to studying the scriptures in Hebrew and looking at the Bible as best as I can in its original context, again, as best as I can, like we're all making an effort and asking God for wisdom and insight, I don't see this as an area over which.

We can divide or should divide. 866-34TRUTH. Let's go to Deborah in Keller, Texas. Welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr.

Brown, how are you? Doing very well, thank you. It's interesting that one of your previous callers was talking about the rapture because that is my question for you. All right, sure. I'm in a similar position that you are, or you were in, about just I'm hungry for truth and I'm spending hours poring over scripture.

And I've been following you for a while, and so I was actually kind of surprised To see that you didn't believe in the rapture, I guess my first question would be: are you still a dispensationalist? Oh, no, no. If I was a dispensationalist, I'd believe in a pretree rapture.

So there was a complete shift in how you've approached scripture then. Yes, with all respect to my dispensationalist brothers and sisters, who are some of the finest Christians on the earth, and to their credit, they think more about the return of Jesus than most of the church. Most of the church in America thinks very little about the return of Jesus, except in kind of sensationalized ways if it comes up. Whereas dispensationalists talk about it more and expect it more. I still believe in a pre-millennial coming of Jesus.

I do believe we will be raptured up. We will be caught up to meet them. I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. Dispensationalists divide their understanding of scripture between Israel and the church as two totally separate entities, right?

So God's dealing with Israel. Jesus comes, announces the kingdom to Israel. Israel rejects the kingdom.

So now we've got this big parentheses, right? This is the church age. This is the way dispensationalists believe it. This is the church age. This is the age of grace.

And during this church age, God's dealing with the church.

Now, Israel's on the side, he's still dealing with him, but the ones he's dealing with him in a salvific way, he's dealing with the church.

So a Jew gets saved, a Gentile gets saved, they become part of the church, and then God's dealing with Israel, physical Israel, on a separate plane over here. And then Jesus returns before the tribulation secretly and unexpectedly, could be any second, takes us out. This is what dispensationalists believe. That ends the parentheses. And now God starts dealing with Israel again on a national level in the land during the tribulation and then what's called the Great Tribulation.

And at the end of that time, we return with Jesus to set up his kingdom on the earth, the millennial kingdom. Hence, his coming is premillennial, before the millennium. I still believe in a premillennial return of Jesus. From what we can see, that was the majority view of the early church leaders as well, that Jesus would return and establish a thousand-year kingdom on the earth. But I do.

Not believe in a pre-trib rapture or the church being taken out. Or this total distinction, this is the church age versus God dealing with Israel. And let me ask you this, Deborah, in your own search. What are we looking forward to? What are we waiting for?

Is it not the appearing of the Lord? Doesn't Paul say in 2 Timothy 4 that we are longing for his appearing. In Hebrews 9, that says that he's going to return a second time for us. He's going to appear. And 1 John 3, when he appears, when we see him, we'll be like him.

So what we're waiting for is a public event. And it's going to be at the end of whatever tribulation, testing, trial there is. Jesus said in John 16:33: In this world you'll have tribulation, but be of good cheer. I've overcome the world. And whatever we go through, he'll be with us.

We're protected from God's wrath, but not from the wrath of Satan and the wrath of man.

So, whatever tribulation testing there is poured out on the earth, Satan attacking God's wrath, we'll be in the middle of that, protected by God, but in the middle of hellish times on the earth, at the end of that time, we look up with great expectation. We don't know the exact day or hour, and we don't know exactly how that works out, but we look up with great expectation. We see him. It's a public event. There's the sound of the trumpet, of the voice of the archangel, and he appears publicly.

We're caught up to meet him in glory, and we descend to earth with him. 2 Thessalonians 1, we will receive rest when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in flaming fire, taking vengeance on those who don't know God.

So, whatever apostasy happens, whatever revelation of Antichrist, we're here to see that. We're here to be witnesses in the midst of it. And yes, it's hellish times on the earth, just like. People in Syria are going through right now, and people in other countries have gone through in the past, but God will be with us, and then we will experience His great victory at the end of the age. That's how I understand it.

Okay, so I love the way you explained my view. You did it better than I could have explained. We're good. I'm glad. We're in sync.

Um However, this is where I struggle the most, as I'm looking at these different perspectives and different views and interpretations of Scripture. What it comes down to for me is the heart of God and His desire to love me and protect me and the promises that He has made to me. And so, not having a pre-trib rapture view almost takes. takes away every promise. that God has made.

You know what I'm saying? Turn it around the opposite. It's the exact opposite. It's that. As Catherine Booth said right before she died, the waters are rising, but so am I.

I'm not going under, but over. Turning around in that God is saying, no matter what hell breaks loose on the earth, I'll be with you. Turn it around to say, Revelation 7: Out of great tribulation on the earth, a multitude will come. There'll be more salvation taking place in the midst of this than ever before. Turn it around and go to the end of Isaiah 26, where God says, Come away, hide in the inner chambers until my wrath passes by.

And go back to John 16:33. Yeah, there's going to be tribulation, but be of good cheer, Jesus says, I've overcome the world. Go to Revelation 1:9, where John writes, I'm your companion, your brother. In the midst of tribulation and kingdom and patient endurance, God's going to be with us all the more. The worse it gets on the earth, the more God is going to be with us.

It's glorious. It's how we overcome is the gospel.

Well, I'm ready with the answers. Waiting for your questions. Let's do it. You've got questions. We've got answers.

It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. All right, phone lines are open. I've got my emails in front of me with some great questions, and I'm ready for your questions. This is the line of fire, and it's my joy to be with you.

866-366-866-865- 34 truth 866-348-7884. I love discovery in Scripture. I love digging and finding insights. I've been reading the Bible now for 45 plus years, and it's so wonderful. You're reading it, you're familiar with the text, and suddenly you notice something and think, hmm.

I wonder how many times that phrase occurs. I didn't realize it occurred three times in the same chapter. What's the meaning of that? I wonder if this is a significant word. Whoa, I didn't realize it was used that much by Paul in this letter.

Wow, that's quite an insight. And you dig and you find something new, or someone asks you a question about a verse. You look at it from a different angle, say, I never saw it like that. It's glorious and it's wonderful and it's beautiful. God's word is never boring.

If you ever feel bored reading scripture, it feels dull, ask God, pray about it. And ask God, And say, Father, make your word to come alive to me and help me to focus and give me insight. And if you dig and if you pray, you will discover great riches in the word of God. All right, we're going to take some calls momentarily, 866-348-7884. First, an email from Joshua.

Dear Dr. Brown, I consider myself a born-again believer as of February 2nd, 2015. Yet, to an overwhelming degree, I feel like I may not be. that I'm deluded, or at least a false convert. I struggle with sin every day, as do most.

When I know or think that I should not, I just end up doing just that. I do not rely on my works but on Christ with prayer and repentance to the best of my understanding of repentance. Yet I fear that I may hear those dreadful words in Matthew 7. 21 to 23, depart from me. I never knew you.

Most I fear being saved and meeting our Lord only to be heartbroken by his disappointment that I didn't do enough or did not obey him to the best I could. After Being saved, and Joshua goes on to recount his best efforts and reaching out to his family and others of different faith, and feels like he's failing. Hey, Joshua. First I believe God deeply appreciates the sincerity of your heart. Where did you get this desire from to please God?

Where did you get this desire from to live for God? Didn't Jesus say, No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him? Didn't Paul say that in me and of myself there's no good thing? And didn't he affirm what the psalmist said, that in ourselves no one seeks after God? The fact that you want to please him.

the fact that you want to live for him. The fact that you feel you're disappointing him, this is because you are his child. This is because you have asked him to forgive your sins. It's because he has come into your life. You say, but.

Why am I hitting this wall?

Okay. This is where the crisis can lead to a breakthrough. I've had to do this myself in different areas of my life where I hit a wall. where I felt I can't change. I know what's right and I'm not doing it.

And I've got to change because I can't live like this. And what I did is I cried out to God. And I cried out to God and I cried out to God and I said, oh God, demonstrate the power of the resurrection of Jesus in my life. If this is just another religion where I have to try harder and harder and harder and harder and harder, then it's not the gospel. Oh, I'm willing to make the effort, but you have to help, God.

Lord, write your word in my heart. God, demonstrate the life-giving power of the blood of Jesus and the resurrection of Jesus and show your power in a changed life in me. And out of that crying out to God, Joshua, I saw change and you will as well.

So meditate on his word, but do it as a child loved by God. He's with you. He's for you. He wants to help you. As for sharing the gospel with the lost, we plant seeds.

God has to give increase. They have to respond. Be at peace, dear brother. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome to the line of fire. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you.

866-348-7884. Hey, have you gotten your free e-book from us? Seven Secrets of the Real Messiah. How do you get it? Very simple.

Just go to my website, askdrbrown.org, askrbrown.org, and you'll see a little box to sign up for our weekly emails. These e-blasts will keep you posted on latest articles, latest videos, and other special resources we have for you. And when you do, when you sign up to get our emails, we will gladly send you the free e-book, Seven Secrets of the Real Messiah. Also, you may be looking at a question, you're wondering about what does the Bible teach about the Sabbath or tithing, or what does the Bible teach about the second coming of Jesus, or how should we address cultural issues or things like that? Just go to the website, askdrbrown.org.

Search in the search engine there. Search out our digital library. We've got tons of resources ready for you to equip you and help you be a disciple and make disciples. 866. Three, four, truth.

All right, we go back to the phones in Chesterfield, Virginia. Graham, welcome to the line of fire. Thank you. Thanks for taking my call. My joy.

Thank you, sir. Yes, I just had a quick question. You probably answered this before, but. Um So I've been studying the book of Isaiah, or trying to at least. And I've come across different opinions on the authorship of it, whether it was one person or several people over Several hundred years.

I just wanted to know your opinion on that and evidence that would be convincing for either one. Yeah, all right.

So let me see if I can figure out a way to condense this. Uh and a lot of people just reading the Bible might not know about this question, but if you're in any academic work at all or Bible college or seminary, this is going to come up.

So the traditional view. The view that would have been held to until just a few hundred years ago, in almost all circles, was that there was one Isaiah, a prophet who is the contemporary of King Achaz and King Uzziah. Isaiah 6, the year King Uzziah dies. Isaiah has his heavenly vision. Isaiah 7, he's dealing with King Achaz.

He has a word for King Hezekiah.

So this is in the The 8th and 7th centuries BC, so roughly 700 plus years before the time of Jesus. And there is one Isaiah, and John 12 would seek to confirm this, that Jesus is talking about, and John is describing this, Isaiah's vision, speaking of the suffering servant in Isaiah 53, but speaking of the same Isaiah in Isaiah 6, would seem to confirm one Isaiah.

So this is the traditional view. There is one Jewish commentator named Ibn Ezra in the 12th century who may have hinted that there was another author, Isaiah. You say, well, why would anyone think that way?

Well, when you read chapters 1 through 39, it ends with a prophecy about the Babylonian exile, the coming Babylonian exile.

So let's say that Isaiah finished his ministry, just give a rough number, somewhere around 680 BC. That's about 100 years before the Babylonian exile. But when you start chapter 40, it starts with, comfort, comfort, my people, words of comfort. To the Jewish people in Babylonian exile. And a lot of the following chapters talk about the Jewish people coming out of exile and being redeemed from Babylon.

And even talks about King Cyrus in chapters 44 and 45, the Persian king who then resettled the Jewish people back in the land or allowed them to return as part of his larger policy. And then some would say, yeah, that's 40 through 55, but 56 to 66, that's different still. And that has different themes as well.

So the critical view is that there are at least two Isaiahs. Right. and the second one called Deutro-Isaiah or 2nd Isaiah, and the same called Trito-Isaiah or 3rd Isaiah.

So there's the Isaiah of chapters 1 through 39, that's 1st Isaiah, 2nd Isaiah 40 to 55, or 40 to 66, or there's a third Isaiah, and that's 56 to 66. Arguments against it would be... How could a prophet that great with that important divorce have been lost in Jewish thinking and history and tradition. How could that possibly have been? That would be one argument against multiple authors.

Another would be three different books. Different names and stuff like that. Right, right. Exactly, especially the lofty monotheism and language of Isaiah 40 to 55. I mean, some of those chapters, to this day, I read them and I'm stunned and I'm overwhelmed with the majesty of the vision there.

So, how could it be just some unknown prophet? Others point to similar vocabulary, referring to God as the Holy One of Israel, and that occurs throughout the book. Others have even pointed out the fascination with trees. There are lots of different references to trees, and that's consistent through the whole book, little things like that. And a normal Christian response would be, What's the big deal?

What's the big deal? After all, predictive prophecy is normal. After all, God can give words in advance. You know, you have prophecies about people coming years in advance. You have a prophecy about Josiah, the King Josiah, 1 Kings 13, that he's going to rise up, his name is given.

So why can't there be predicted prophecy? Others would say, but this is totally unusual. This is the prophet speaking to events that having happened chapter after chapter after chapter as if they're ongoing.

So, is there Internal evidence. Internal linguistic evidence that there must be different authors. No, they're definitely different styles. For sure, there are different styles. There's overlap, but they're different styles.

But you cannot make a conclusive argument that there must be different authors based on vocabulary or style. And let's also recognize. That if you read, say, my book, Israel's Divine Healer. And then you put that down, and that's brain drain, that's 80,000 words of text and 85,000 words of endnotes. And you put that down, and then you pick up End of the American Gospel Enterprise, which is less than 100 pages.

It's like preaching. You'll think two different people wrote them, right?

So, different style, or something you write when you're 30 versus something you write when you're 60, that could all be explained. I find no compelling evidence. that there have to be multiple authors, but I find it very odd. that beginning in chapter 40, you now have a whole different backdrop and subject matter. One kind of in-between view.

is this. Isaiah 8, Isaiah mentions himself and the children God has given him and their physical children, but there seems to be a school of disciples. He's told to seal up the vision with the disciples and things like that.

So there are some who believe that the prophecies of Isaiah were recorded and then he had a school of disciples that may have continued to publish in his name. In other words, that they were his prophetic children, so to say, and they continued to prophesy, but anything that was prophesied was prophesied in his name and included in this. Hence, later words from the school of Isaiah were incorporated. We just have no hard evidence for it. Uh does Does John 12 say decisively that there was one Isaiah?

It certainly points in that direction. The only argument you could raise is, well, no, no, no, that was just what was believed in that day, and the Bible was writing based on what was believed in that day. And that's the common way that scripture writes. Just it talks about the rising and setting of the sun. And, you know, that's observational language.

So if the people believed a certain person wrote a book of the Bible, that's how they'd address it because that's what they all believed and thought. And others would say, but where's the inspiration of the scripture then?

So John 12 points strongly to one Isaiah. The subject matter points strongly to different Isaiahs, but there's nothing conclusive, definite, and conclusive to say that there were multiple authors. I'm going to have to definitively address this, sir, God willing in the years ahead, because I agreed to write a commentary on Isaiah for a series. It's going to be Pentecostal charismatic scholars writing a commentary.

So it's going to be good scholarship, but we'll also be writing from our background.

So at a certain point, I'll have to lay out exactly why. Why I feel a particular way.

So, from our simple faith perspective, the evidence leans strongly to one Isaiah, but if so, My best guess is not Just that he saw everything ahead in the Spirit. But that there may have been a school of disciples that continued to produce part of the book of Isaiah in the generations ahead with the Babylonian exile, and that were just subsumed under the words of the head of that school of disciples, namely Isaiah himself. That is a viable option to me. It doesn't deny anything scripturally. But does John 12 argue the other way?

You could make a case for it. But I've got no problem personally. I have zero problem with the idea of Isaiah seeing all this in the spirit and prophesying years ahead. I just have not. Put it in writing in a definitive way myself.

But I see no compelling argument with critical scholarship that you have to believe in a second, third Isaiah. If you believe in predictive prophecy, you don't need to.

So sorry for the kind of longish, rambling answer, but doing my best to lay things out.

So, appreciate the question, sir. All right.

God bless you. All right.

Thank you. All right, 866-342.

So, for those who don't know, I wrote a commentary on Jeremiah, about 550 pages for the Expositors Bible Commentary, the revised edition of the Expositors Bible Commentary. I am re-editing a commentary I wrote on the book of Job with a fresh translation of Job. We're trying to make it more accessible to a larger audience.

So you don't have to be a scholar to read it.

So I'm doing a complete rewrite on that. Scholars should enjoy it, but we're trying to make it more accessible to a larger public.

So that's taking a lot of time. But one day, God willing, our Job commentary with lots of essays and reflections will come out as well. And then, one day, Book of Isaiah. Hope to write a commentary on that. In fact, I committed to it, but that's some years down the line.

We'll be right back with more of your phone calls. This is. the line of fire. Angel World. Give us strict to always do what's right.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. You know, it really is my goal.

to be your voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity in the midst. Of a society in chaos and a church all too often in compromise. You know, years back, I use that phrase, your voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity in the midst of a society and chaos in a church all too often and compromised. And people wonder, what are you talking about? What do you mean in society in chaos?

What do you mean in church too often, all too often in compromise? I don't get many people asking me what I mean by that anymore. I think it is very clear. All right, I'm here to answer your questions. 866?

348-7884. And we go back to the phones in Richmond, Virginia. Craig, welcome to the line of fire. Good afternoon, Dr. Brown.

How are you? doing very well. Thank you. Yeah, the first hour you were talking with the gentleman and you kind of talked a little bit about the new earth theory and all of that. And I just have a thought about that and I just want to share it and then I'll I'll allow you to talk about it and I won't I probably won't say too much more.

But the thing is this, you know, they talk about the earth has to be millions of years old and I I don't believe that. I believe what the Bible teaches about you know God creating it. But the the thing is this, if You and I had been there, and every scientist that we possibly know had been there one day. After Adam was created, well, every bit of scientific suggestion and even visual acuity would have said he was more than one day old. Yeah.

Would have said that. You wouldn't you wouldn't have thought he was you might have thought he was 18. I might have thought he was 30, but none of us would have said he's one day old. Exactly. And when we were placed into the Eden, they weren't placed there with with saplings that were placed there with developed trees.

Trees that were already bearing fruit. But I think the thing is that it's easy to confuse. Creation with birth. if there's a two different entire they're just two t two different things altogether. I don't believe that the earth has to be millions of years old just because God created it at a developed state.

Right, right. So that's one of the common arguments, a strong argument that's made by young earth creationists. And again, as you've listened to the show, sir, you know that I don't comment much on the scientific end because that's not my area of expertise.

So I bring scientists on on either side, young earth creationists, old earth creationists, to debate it, or those who are atheists and things like that, don't even believe in a creator, to discuss the scientific issues. And I'm focusing more just on the exegetical, scriptural, theological issues. But here's your point. And for those who are missing your point, let me just explain it briefly. A young earth creationist would say, yes, there are indications Of age on the earth.

There are indications of things being very old, but what if they were created like that? Meaning, Adam was certainly a fully formed male when he was created. He was not like an infant. He was not a one-day-old infant because he's walking and talking, and God puts him in the garden, and he's naming animals and things like that, and he recognizes Eve as a perfect match and companion and things like that.

So he and Eve are fully formed human beings the day that they were born.

So if we just appeared there, From our knowledge, we think, wow. You've been here for a while. You know, you're birthed and no, that's how it was created.

Okay, what about stars and light? It takes a certain amount of time for the light to come.

Well, what if it started like that, that the light was already here? You know, those are some of the arguments.

Now, the counter argument would be, well, wouldn't God be deceptive? In other words, the tree rings and things like that, and you can tell the age of a tree by tree rings and things like that. Would he have created something with the appearance of being old? Wouldn't that be deceptive? And then your argument would be, well, would it be deceptive to create a fully formed Adam and Eve?

And if something is aged, it's going to have any sign of age, or can it just mean maturity?

So, yeah, that's one of the common arguments that is raised. And then young earth creationists would say many of the things that we're looking at, a lot of the natural phenomena on the earth, is the result of the flood. And the catastrophe of the flood, and the upheaval that the flood brought about. This much I know. There are.

There are great scientists who are young Earth creationists. The idea. That no good scientist, no real geologist, no real biologist, no real chemist, no real bona fide scientist would believe in a young earth creation. That's actually wrong. There are Top flight.

PhD well-trained, university recognized, trained. Scientists who believe in young earth, and the same way there are deeply committed Christians who love the Lord and love the Word who are old earth scientists.

So this is why we don't divide over it. But yes, your point is a major point that would be raised by young earth creationists. A lot of people never thought of the argument, so I appreciate you raising it. Mm-hmm. One second, Doc.

Real quick, doctor Brown. That's the thing is you say that people who who are older people would say that God would be decept deceiving people to create trees with age rings. But see, that I don't I don't buy that simply because time is for us and it's not for God. God God is an eternal being, so everything is the same with Him. You know, the beginning, the end, it's all the same.

He visualizes it all from the same aspect.

So I mean, just so He creates a tree that is developed. That doesn't necessarily mean it's that age, it just means it's developed to that level. That's what Helsinki did. Right, right. So, in other words, it would be theoretically, okay, theoretically.

If a human being ages, right, and let's say in Adam's day, by the time you were 700, you started to have wrinkly skin.

So, if God wanted to fully form you as a 700-year-old, he would form you with wrinkly skin. That would be the argument. That if he wanted a tree formed at a certain level of development, he would form it to look as if it was a certain age because that would be appropriate for that level of development. Yeah, I appreciate the logic behind your argument. And again, and thank you for the call, Craig.

Let me emphasize this. I know for some This is a very volatile issue. And let me explain why. For some who are young earth creationists, you read the scripture and you say, this is black and white. This is the words on the page.

This is in six days the Lord created the heavens and the earth. He rested on the seventh. He tells Israel, you rest on the seventh day, just like I did, because six days, same six days, and the genealogies are clear. And to deny this is to deny scripture. And once you deny young earth creation, you start to go the path of apostasy.

I know some young earth creationists who are very, very zealous for this. And to them, it is a major issue of the faith. I would simply say there's no evidence through church history over this being laid out as a required doctrine. You say, well, who denied it? That's not the issue.

I don't see it laid out as a required doctrine. On the flip side, I know old earth creationists, and there are some who are very, very strong on this because they say that for us to deny the age of the earth and to deny the evidence of science is to make us look foolish. And when we take these silly stands and argue that the earth is only 10,000 years old or whatever it is, that we now make the whole gospel look like a mockery.

So I've heard the passionate arguments on each side. May I just make a humble appeal? Hold to your views with passion. study the scriptures, look at science. Come to your own conclusions, but honor brothers and sisters who are orthodox in the faith.

and who have a different perspective. My old earth creationist friends, please respect the passion of the young earth creationists. He says, look, to me, this is the clear evidence of scripture, and I believe there are sciences, the scientific study backs it. And to young earth creations, please. Understand that your old creation brothers and sisters are not just looking at science, they're looking at scripture too, and they believe there are other scriptural ways of reading things that are fair and true in light of the overall witness of scripture that points to an old earth rather than a young earth.

So hold to your views, but please. Don't divide over this. And I'm not trying to take a compromised position. I don't live like that. I don't take the path of least resistance.

In fact, I don't relate to that thinking. If I feel something's right, I'm going to stand for it regardless of cost or consequences. That's how I've lived all my life in the Lord up to now. I'm simply making an appeal. Let's not attack each other over this and divide over it.

Let's be passionate, let's have our convictions, but let's do it in a spirit of grace and unity. All right, we'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hey, I hope that you enjoy these broadcasts as much as I do. Can't wait to get into the studio.

Can't wait to sit down behind this mic. Can't wait to look at the screen and see the calls that have come in and the subjects we're going to talk about on our broadcast. You've got questions, we've got answers. This is Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the Line of Fire Broadcast.

This is our Friday QA broadcast. You may be watching it on TV on a different day of the week. You may be listening to podcasts or online, a different day of the week. But Fridays, you've got questions, we've got answers. Here's the number to call: 866-365.

348-7884. Before I go to the phones, here is an email from Miguel. My name is Miguel. And I'm hoping for some suggestions or recommendation about commentaries and systematic theology books. I'm looking for Arminian, not Calvinist ones, would gladly appreciate your help.

Let me tell you an interesting story, and then I'm going to tell you exactly where to go. to get some great, great Arminian scholarship, systematic theology and commentaries and things like that. When I came to faith, I came to faith in an Arminian church.

So we did not believe in Calvinism, we did not believe in predestination and election the way Calvinists teach it. We were a Pentecostal church. That's where I came to faith in 1971 as a heroin shooting, LSD using Jewish hippie rock drummer, 16 years old. Yeah. So once I got to college, and I started college in 1973, and then I started reading other books, then I started reading some more theology and things like that.

And I started to notice it seemed that most of the commentators were not Pentecostal charismatic. Most of them were not Arminian, so say the beliefs that John Wesley would have held and things like that. They were Calvinists, like Charles Spurgeon was and others, especially the systematic theology. And I went through a shift myself where from 77 to 82, I really embraced Calvinism. I embraced the tulip, the doctrines of Calvinism.

I appreciated the great Puritan scholars and the great Puritan preachers and Baptist preachers and theologians and things like that. And to this day, I have a great Appreciation for Calvinist scholars and Calvinist revivalists and Calvinist commentators and some of the finest Christian leaders that we've had in the body, Calvinist brothers and sisters. key colleagues of mine in seminaries and other places, my dear friend Dr. James White, apologist Dr. James White, and he of I, we've debated, had friendly debates on Calvinism versus Arminianism.

Great appreciation for my Calvinist brothers and believe there's often great scholarship in Calvinism despite the differences that I would have.

Now, here's the question. Is there good Arminian scholarship? Of course. Of course there is.

Some of the top biblical commentaries and commentators are Calvinists. And there's great theology being written by, excuse me, by Arminians. Ah, some would say slip of the tongue, Freudian slip. No, I meant to say Arminian. There are fine Arminian commentaries.

There are fine Arminian theologies and things like that. You say, well, where do I find them? Here's a good place to go. Get online and look for the Society of Evangelical Arminians. All right.

The Society. of evangelical Arminians. And you'll find great theological work there. you'll find great Commentary work. By the way, a whole other subject.

There are many fine charismatic scholars, Pentecostal charismatic scholars. That was not the case when I came to faith 45 years ago. A lot of the Pentecostal church had kind of an anti-scholarship mentality. I remember a favorite verse in our church in Acts 4:13 in the King James. It said the apostles were just ignorant, unlearned men.

If that was good enough for the apostles, it's good enough for us. And so there was kind of a downplaying of education, seminary, semitary. And you know, there's a lot of dead scholarship. There's a lot of good scholarship, too. But go to the Society for Evangelical Arminians.

They have lists of commentaries on different books of the Bible that are written by Arminians. One of the world's finest New Testament scholars today, Craig Keener, is both Arminian and charismatic, and his commentaries on John and Acts and Matthew. You know, the books are classic.

So check it out: Society for Evangelical Arminians. You'll find lots of great resources there. And Benefit from other brothers and sisters in the body wherever you can as well. Be watching. Watch for the Hebrew word of the day.

God of light, hear our cry, send us fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

It's true. Me looking at a screen filled with callers, that's like a kid in a candy shop. Michael Brown, welcome to the line of fire. 866-348-7884. Let's go to Chris in Alexandria, Louisiana.

Welcome to the line of fire. Uh nice to be on, Doc Ryan.

Well thank you. I'm pretty familiar with you. I spent some time in Brownsville back in the in the nineties and I read most of your books and you know. I'm pretty familiar. But um I imagine you want my question up.

Yeah, please. Please. Yeah, and for those listening that don't know what Brownsville is, Chris is referring to what was called the Brownsville Revival from 1995 to 2000. It took place in Pensacola, Florida. And for those who heard about it, you may have heard good or bad.

Anytime there's a move of God revival, you're going to hear good and bad. In fact, Christian leaders have said if something claims to be a revival and it's not spoken against, question it to see if it's really a revival. There's always going to be controversy. The key thing is what really happened. And I was there in the midst of it.

It was repentance-based, holiness-based, Jesus exalting, reaching out to the lost, seeing radical conversion, backsliders coming to get right with God with great fruit that remains to this day. People touched in the revival have gone around the world, planted churches, done missions work, and the works continue to grow in that respect.

So a very sacred time. And it was not Brownsville, Texas. That's the better-known Brownsville, but a neighborhood in Pensacola, Florida called Brownsville, where God poured out his spirit mightily in about Three plus million people cumulatively came from over 130 nations to be in the meetings there.

So I had a privilege of being a leader there, raising up a school in the midst of it.

Okay, just wanted to fill folks in for those who aren't familiar, right?

So, to your question, sir. Uh yes, sir. Um You know, I've been a revivalist for a long time and it's really not been my view. I mean, it's what God's put in my heart. And um I think over my study of my life I've I've noticed you know, the Divine Order just seems to be such a a critical element of God's presence, you know, from the tabernacle to carrying up the ark in in the Old Testament where we see David trying to carry it up to all types of things.

And it seems like the very basic essence of who we are as men and women and what we have for leadership. in the family, directional leadership in the family, in the church. It seems like we have kind of moved away from that and we've started to equate if there's different roles and there's you know, then it's a different value when uh you know, um when our only value surely is in You know, knowing Christ's love and receiving the love of God and giving it away. I mean, the greatest calling is. no doubt to manifest Jesus.

I mean, that that the greatest calling, not Yeah. Right, so what what you're saying though. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Do you see that as an issue?

I mean, it seems like Even in the church, we've distorted the roles of men and women to the point. that um Yeah, I think that's The core of the breakdown of identity and the breakdown of the marriage. Right, right. I thought you were going in that direction.

So let me first step back and give the larger perspective. When we see the importance of order in Scripture, And the tabernacle and strict requirements with it, and the temple and strict requirements with it, and the priesthood and strict requirements with it. When we see those kinds of things, when we see in the New Testament that Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11 that there's a certain order for praying and prophesying men and women in the body, and then in 1 Corinthians 14, when he says everything must be done in a decent and orderly way, it's interesting there that it's that this one has a tongue and this one has an interpretation and this one has a song and this one has a revelation. There's lots of different ministry, but it's in a certain order. There are a few issues.

One is foundations, that God has established foundations, and when you mess with those foundations, everything gets thrown. That's one thing. The other thing is distinguishing that which is holy. from that which is unholy. God may move in powerful ways.

People may all shout and fall on their faces when the fire of God falls, like in 1 Kings, the 18th chapter. It's not that they all shout at the same moment and fall the same way. That's not the issue. But there's the recognition of that which is holy and sacred and the bowing down before that.

So I see, Chris, two things happening. Number one, there is a breaking down of order in terms of reverence for that which is holy. That things just become so commonplace. Even in our church services, there is very little sense of the holy presence or awareness of the holy presence. Or, look, I don't like calling one part of the building the sanctuary, as if the place itself is holy.

Because we know holiness comes from the presence of God, not from the physical building. I mean, you might meet in a gymnasium. and you put your chairs there on a Sunday morning and rent from a local school, and when the Holy Spirit comes down in power or during worship you are focused on the Lord and His holy presence is there and the Word of God is being preached and there's a holy awe. Yeah, and then you take the chairs down and it's a gymnasium the rest of the week. There's holiness there, but that's because of God's presence, God's word, God's truth.

All right.

We've gotten away from that, Chris. In many ways, there's very little fear of the Lord, reverential, godly, good, holy fear. Very little of that. With that, very little conviction of sin. I'm not so bad because God's not so holy.

And that's a real problem. If we have a fresh wave of revival, there will be a fresh wave of holiness, and with that, a fresh wave of recognition of God's order and God's ways. The other thing. which you specifically mentioned about male-female distinctions. Yes, yes, we've lost that in the church.

There is unity in Jesus. Men are not here, women are not here, women are not here, men are not here. In other words, it's not higher, lower. All right.

There is no caste system. There is no class system. In that sense, we are absolutely equal in Jesus. And yet, say in the home, the husband is called to be the head of the home. There's a certain role he is to carry.

Even though the husband and wife listen to each other, respect each other, the husband's called to lay down his life for his wife in a unique way. The wife to honor and submit to the husband in a unique way. There are unique callings. And we just blend everything. Everybody's the same.

Everything's the same. We downplay the reality of gender distinctions. Does that then play out in a larger society that's lost its way with gender distinctions? Absolutely. So we have lost our way in fundamentals of divine order.

And we must come back to that. Father, what did you intend when you created this male and female? Father, what do you intend when you call us out to be your holy people in the midst of a sinning world? There is a pattern and template that God has laid out that we have largely deviated from, and that's another reason we need to go back to the basics, back to the word, back to the foundations, and back to seeking God for fresh outpouring of his spirit. Hey, Chris, thank you for the call.

Thank you for raising the issues. 866-34TRUTH. We go to Charlotte, North Carolina. Will, welcome to the line of fire. Whoa there.

Hey. Oh, sorry, let me just get my thoughts together. I had sort of a question and a comment. All right, go ahead.

Well, I my large question is: what is the place of in contemporary Christianity when it comes to questions of Morality and sin. And I'll follow that up with their comments that I I would be in the I was still actually away from the church for quite some time, and I left largely because of those. What felt like irreconcilable differences. Um Weather, I think it is over some of the large issues of pro-choice or pro-life. sexuality and so roles of our of gender in our society.

What Is there a place uh Is there a way to dissent in a friendly manner? And I still call myself A Christian? I wish I I'd like to be able to do that. Yeah, give me an example of of where you would have dissent. Are you pro-life or are you pro-abortion?

Um Yeah. That's an interesting way of putting it. Uh I am for the right of an individual to have an abortion if it's necessary. What if the child was just if it was Okay, we'll come back to that. What about do two men or two women who love each other have the right to, quote, marry?

Yes. Yeah, so I would fundamentally say that in saying that you are now taking yourself outside of the word of God. and outside Uh the church. In other words, I would fundamentally reject those views as immoral. And contrary to scripture.

Now I'm not judging. whether you know the Lord or not, whether he's your Savior or not, God is the judge of that. But as I understand abortion to be the taking of a human life, all right? And if a mother is distressed and feels she can't handle another child or they just can't afford to bring another baby into the world, that's distressing. I understand there are people that stand by wanting to adopt and help in every way they can, but you don't kill that baby in the womb any more than you kill the baby if it was a day old for those same circumstances.

In the same way, God plainly defines marriage in Scripture as the union of one man and one woman, and he plainly forbids homosexual practice and says that those who live like that will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So you're a descent, so that's between you and God. There are churches you can go to that will agree with you totally. And that they'll say, hey, this is the Christian view. We're pro-choice and we're tolerant and love is love. You can go there.

I say you are deceiving yourself if you go there. And I would go back to reading scripture and say, do my views line up with what's written in the Word of God? That's the real issue. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thank you so much for joining us on the line of fire, 866-34TRUTH.

That's the number to call. Let me make a quick comment. Oh yeah. A caller asks me Where's the room for dissent in the church? If he believes that under certain circumstances a woman has a right to abortion, if he believes that two men or two women can, quote, marry, can he still call himself a Christian?

Again, that's between him and God. That's between you and God, what you call yourself, and it's between you and God, how God views you, right? But let's go back to the time of slavery. In the 1800s, If you were a slave owner, let's say you lived in New York City and you were part of Charles Finney's congregation in New York City. and you were a slave owner, or you were in any way involved in the slave trade.

You could not take communion in his church. He would not allow you to partake in communion. How would you feel about that if someone today is involved in slave trade? All right, let's say they're involved in human trafficking. and they're calling themselves a Christian.

How would you feel about that? Would they have fellowship in your church? No, if they didn't repent, they'd be put out if they claimed to be Christians.

Someone just sent me a link about a woman, a porn star, who divorced from her husband, is now in a lesbian relationship, and says, I have evangelical faith. I go to the church as often as I can, carrying my Bible in my hand. You can't just judge by outward things.

Well, that woman needs to find Jesus and get truly saved. And if she claims to be saved and is living like that and is professing Jesus, then if she won't repent after patient, gracious outreach and warning, then she has to be this fellowship.

So there are plenty of churches that are liberal. and that have homosexual weddings and homosexual clergy and things like that and say, hey, it's the law of the land anyway. And we're now more enlightened in our interpretation of scripture, and some who feel abortion is a very compassionate, godly thing to do. You can find a church like that. I say, if you do, you're deceiving yourself.

And I say the word of God warns plainly.

So in my book, following God's Book as best as I understand. if some one affirms that which God expressly forbids, If someone says that two men or two women can be involved in a loving relationship and blessed by God, whereas the word of God plainly says those who practice this will not inherit the kingdom.

Now you are setting yourself outside of the evangelical faith, as I understand it. Also outside of the traditional Catholic faith for that matter as well. 866-34-TRUTH. We go to Grand Barry, Texas. Will, welcome to the line of fire.

Well, thank you for taking my call and question. Yeah. This comes about after I heard your comment on what you thought about Damascus and end times. and was wondering What you thought of Psalms 83, because that's been noted as a as a you know, end time war, but I think it parallels the uh nineteen sixty seven six-day war. And I'd like to hear your view on that.

Yeah, so Will, you're referring back to some time back, I don't remember exactly what it was or the context, but talking about Damascus and the war in Syria, and is that fulfilling prophecy and destruction of Damascus? Is that fulfilling prophecy like in the book of Isaiah and things like that?

So, I discussed those issues in times past and said that the prophecies in Isaiah were definitely speaking of something that happened in Isaiah's day in that timeframe. But what about a Psalm like Psalm 83? Your enemies make an uproar. Those who hate you have raised their head. They say, come, let's wipe them out as a nation.

Let the name of Israel be remembered no more. And it mentions the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, Moab and the Hagrites, Gabal and Ammon and Amalek, Philistia, with the inhabitants of Tyre. Asher has also joined them. They're the strong arm of the children of Lot. And it goes on from there.

Will, here's the way I'd understand it. In times past in Israel's history, those peoples have tried to wipe them out. In times past in Israel's history, those peoples, those nations have tried to wipe them out.

So certainly there is a past reference as well.

However, Could this psalm also be recited, Say in 1948, when five surrounding Arab nations declared war on the fledgling state of Israel. when Iraq and Egypt and Jordan and other nations are all attacking Israel at the same time. The surrounding nations, maybe the names of some of the nations had changed, but surrounding peoples in the past, now and the present were attacking. Or the six-day war, Egypt paused to attack, and Israel thinking this could be really, really bad. And then Israel now strikes, and what seems like miraculous deliverance, I believe, was God's hand graciously preserving the modern state of Israel.

And could it be something that still happens in the end of the age? I believe there are multiple levels of meaning and usage of Scripture. What I mean by this, sir, is simple. that this psalm does have a historical context. and that within Old Testament times, You can point to times when there were attacks from the surrounding nations and the desire to destroy Israel so that the people of Israel would cease to be a nation.

That has happened. Has it happened again now? In in an hour day. Beginning with the restoration of the modern state of Israel and the regathering of the Jewish people in large numbers from the beginning of the 20th century until now. Yes.

I believe that living in Israel being in 1947-48. or being 1967, or in many ways as terrorists continue to try to attack to this day. and perhaps a final war, that this Psalm can be repeated and used as relevant yet again. Maybe not every single detail. In other words, maybe not.

Every last nation or people is going to still be represented, but the same thing, the surrounding hostile nations wanting to wipe out Israel. It's happened before, hence the original context for this psalm. It has happened again. And I believe it will happen yet again. with ultimately the same results.

God will deliver his people out of it. Yes, we've suffered in the midst of it. Yes, there's often been discipline and divine judgment and chastisement, but God has delivered in the midst of it.

So that's my understanding. And, Will, if you have access to my commentary on the book of Jeremiah that I wrote for the revised edition of the Expositus Bible commentary, check out my commentary on Jeremiah 30 about Jacob's trouble. It definitely has first application to The Destruction of Jerusalem, the exiling of the people under the Babylonians, especially in 586 BC. It definitely has application to that. But as I read the text and really dug deep into the Hebrew and the way it was structured and laid out, I concluded that it also has relevance for later tragedies, that you could apply it to something as horrible as the Holocaust and perhaps a final end-time siege with the same principle that God ultimately delivers his people.

Of it. Hey, Will, thank you very much for the question. All right, friends, we are out of time, but I remind you once again, on my website, askdrbrown.org, there are thousands of hours of resources for you. Go to the digital library, check out our videos: debates with rabbis, debates with an agnostic professor, debates with gay activists, theological debates with other brothers in the Lord, articles on cultural issues, cutting-edge issues, articles on Israel today. All these archives, all these resources waiting for you.

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