Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Today is January 22nd, 2024. If you want to give me a call, please do.

Just call 877-20-722-76. What can we talk about? All kinds of stuff. As always, on the weekend on Saturday night, I spent some time witnessing. On Sunday night, I spent some time witnessing. I was very surprised. I rarely meet him that knowledgeable. He was rude at first.

He was good after that. He was saying how the Catholic church teaches the same thing we do biblically. Nevertheless, if you were by any chance there listening, and the room was full of people, then please call and give me your feedback.

If not, no big deal. If you want, you can email me at 877- You can email me, let's try it again. You can email me at info at karm.org.

The subject line just put in there a radio question or a radio comment. If you want to call me, that's easy to do. 877-20-722-76. Let's see, I'm going to check my calendar because because of the wonderful things. On February 10th I'll be in Sandy, Utah working at 9 o'clock in the morning at the Mormonism Research Center that is established by MRM. It's in Sandy, Utah. I'll be there staying with Bill McKeever. Getting down there with Eric on a Saturday.

If you guys are in the area and you want to come by, then that's all you have to do. You have to check it out. karm.org.

Bill and Eric they do great stuff there. I'm looking for it to find in there the center where the address is and stuff. I haven't looked there for a while. I just know where it is. I'll get the address and stuff like that. I'm curious. Maybe someone can find it for me.

Put it in the chat text. I'm just looking. Podcast video. They've got a lot of good stuff there. It's a nice site.

It really is. It looks good. I have debate.

I do. Wednesday. Let's see. What's happening Wednesday?

Let's see. On the Trinity. I'll be debating the Trinity.

I do these things and then sometimes because I'm so busy, I do so many things. Somebody says are you ready for the debate? What debate? Tonight. What time?

In an hour. What are we debating? We're debating. Okay, that's right. I'll prep.

Get in there and do that. Oneness debate. Actually, it's going to be different. Andrew Rappaport. I've known Andrew for 15, 20 years I guess.

He's an apologist also. He and I are going to be debating the oneness issue. I don't know how it's going to work. This is what I normally do when there are other people involved in a debate.

A tag team. What I often do is just not say a whole bunch. Not because I'm pouting. Just see what they're going to say. If they need some backup or some help. That's how I view it sometimes.

Or even if I need backup or help. Certainly would be the case. That'll be that. Now they want to know where.

It'll be Oh, nice yawn. I'm going to put it in there. I'm going to put it in there. I'm going to put it right there. Maybe somebody will put it up on the calendar. It's an actual calendar.

Open mic discussion. Is Jesus the father? This is going to be so easy. I can prove Jesus is not the father. It's very easy to do.

I can do it in one minute or less. Seriously. Done. The problem isn't that. The problem is that the unbeliever is that doesn't work. So I have to tell them no it does work. No it doesn't.

So that's what it is. I will be just debating about little particulars. What I'm going to do is just give a really good, solid, quick argument. It'll be quick and slick. Now depending on if Andrew goes first. I don't mind. Go first. I don't care.

Go first. I do impromptu debates all the time. Let's see.

It'll be on YouTube. Oh, standing for truth. That's a good ministry. See, Laura you are awesome.

The Utah Christian Research Center is 579 Galena Park Place Suite 101. So somebody's going to have to put that up there on the calendar where it's going to be. 9 o'clock in the morning.

That to me is like, are you serious? I don't get up until 10.30. See, I was up until 4 o'clock last night because I have trouble sleeping. I do. I have trouble sleeping. That's just what it is. My brother does too.

I think it's just a genetic thing. So I have to I can't go to sleep at 1 o'clock in the morning. I just lay there for two hours.

Now Andrew Rappaport, we've roomed together, done stuff. He's out in two minutes. Makes me mad. I just want to throw something at him.

Wake him up. I'm just looking to pretend I'm asleep or something. Alright, there we go. Hey, do you want to give me a call?

877-207-2276. Let's get to Seth from Charlotte, North Carolina. Seth, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, so I had a question about the book of Nahum. I'll probably put during that word. I just wanted to know exactly what he's talking about in his vision and really what the book is about. I read through it and I guess I'm kind of confused. I'm not really understanding what exactly he's talking about.

What it's about? Well, I'd have to do a little bit of research off the top of my head. I can't tell you. Let's see if I can do this though.

Nahum. Usually there's little intros in commentaries, so I can just go there and take a look. It offers an illustrative case study and how difficult it can be. Oh, that's about dating prophets. Let's get a bit more information. Dating, writing, character.

What's it about? Oh, I know what I'll do. I know what I'll do. I know where to get the information from. There's always resources.

Always resources. One of the things I want to do is do a brief outline of each book in the Bible. That's 66 books. There we go. There we go.

It's just another project which I want to do. It's a short book consisting of three chapters and it contains poetic language and it describes the downfall of Nineveh. That's right because it says in the very beginning there. It's about the impending judgment and destruction of Nineveh and God's justice. Things like that. That's basically what it's about. Yeah. I read through that, but it's also a vision into the future. Am I wrong about that? I don't know.

I'd like to be able to say I have good answers for every question but sometimes I just don't know. It says record the vision. That's Habakkuk. What I'm looking for in Nahum, the book of the vision of Nahum, the Elchashite. What particular verse in it is making you think that it might be a prophetic thing in that sense?

Well, honestly I read through it and then I watched a video on an older gentleman on YouTube describing that it was also a vision of him seeing into the future. What was the name of this guy? Gosh, I cannot remember. I really don't.

I don't remember. I just saw it one day and clicked on it. Yeah, because sometimes there's bad teachers. I'm not saying it's good or bad. But as I'm looking through and scanning it's fortification. You'll become drunk. Egypt.

You are no better than no... I'd have to look at the whole thing to see what's going on. It mentions Ethiopia.

Lube him and do a study on it. So it might be. I don't know. I just have to take a look and see. I wish I had a better view.

I really do. I have another question if that's okay. Let's see. I think it's First Corinthians. Maybe not. Maybe I'm wrong. It's where Paul is talking about women speaking in the church. This is something I asked my pastor about. If I'm not mistaken I think most people interpret that wrong. As in saying that women cannot be cannot speak in the church.

I don't know. I guess I'm just kind of on the fence about it on how I should be interpreting that. So what's going on is that biblically speaking women are not to be pastors, elders, or deacons. Because the Bible, and I can give you the verses and references talks about that. I think it's in First Corinthians early part of 14. I think it is.

Maybe not. It talks about, no it's not in there. It's about heads being veiled and women cannot speak and things like that. So this is a difficult area of scripture.

So what do they think is going on? So one of the options, it's First Corinthians 11 one of the options, let me go through it a little bit, see Christ is the head of every man and the man is the head of the woman and God is the head of Christ. So it's talking about order. This is verse 3. We have to understand that even in the Trinity there is a hierarchy. The Father sent the Son. The Father and the Son send the Holy Spirit.

There's more, but that's just a quick example. It says that Jesus, the head of Christ is God, speaking of the Father. So it doesn't mean that they are inferior or that Christ is inferior, it means there is a hierarchical structure for order. Because this is the nature of the Trinitarian existence.

This is how it's been. So the word is eternally the Son. Eternally begotten. In the sense that, not that he had a beginning in that sense, but that in the eternal covenant he was always the one who would be sent, become one of us, die for our sins. So he's always in that context of the one who is sent.

Now we've got a break and we'll get back after this but I want to lay down that this is because of the Trinitarian essence itself. When we get back from the break we'll talk about that. Hey folks if you want to call me we have two open lines 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody welcome back to the show.

If you want to give me a call we have two open lines 877-207-2276. Let's get to Seth from Charlotte. Seth are you still there? Hello?

I don't know if we're hearing him or not. I'm here. Okay there you go.

Good. Alright so I laid out the issue of the Trinity and its hierarchical structure because when I go through the rest of this I want people to have a theological basis to understand that authority does not mean superiority or that you're better than somebody else. It has to do with the very nature and the Trinitarian communion itself. Because in the Trinity that's the origination of all things. Genesis 1-1 in the beginning God said let her be light. So God is the one who created everything and he's the one who is the originator and all things go back to him.

Anyway so check this out. In 1 Corinthians 11-5 every woman who has her head covered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head for she is one and same with the woman who has her head shaved. In the culture a woman's shaved head was a sign of sexual infidelity and adultery and sometimes also of prostitution. So the hair was a glory for the woman. In my opinion I love to see women with long hair. I just think it's feminine. I think it's great. I think that's when women look best.

Old gray hair long old gray hair I love that as well as young. That's just my opinion. But I think it's most beautiful. Alright so not a big deal but in that culture too if a woman were to let her hair down in public that was a scandal. Because women were guarded.

They weren't possessions not like that but they were guarded very specifically. Women weren't supposed to go out on their own unless they were in a group with other women or accompanied by a man because a lot of guys out there were pretty bad. And if you were going out there by yourself were you advertising something? Why were you out there by yourself? So I'll tell you about this. When the woman at the well went out by herself and Jesus met her it's a little scandalous because now he's meeting a woman who's by herself at a well.

And I've actually drank out of that very well as a matter of fact. But she had had five husbands and she was an outcast of the community so she had to go to the well later on in the heat of the day by herself. And Jesus met her there and talked to her. Okay so she would have her hair covered.

That's what was supposed to be the case. In Luke 7 where the woman came in to the Pharisee's house, Simon, when Jesus was there and she let her hair down and wiped his feet with her hair. Oh that's scandal. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

That's incredible. Why would a woman let her hair down like that in public? Because she's only supposed to do that with her husband. This is the culture. So if a woman did that in public she's advertising her sexuality.

You don't do that. This is the culture of that time. So that's why Paul says she's the one in the same as the one whose head is shaved.

Because there's a cultural act there. So what's going on is a spiritual act is to be under authority. So notice what it says in 1 Corinthians 11 5. Her head is uncovered that every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head. For she is worn the same with a woman who has her head shaved.

So what it's telling me is that the specificity of praying and prophesying means in the church she can pray publicly and she can prophesy publicly. Because the Holy Spirit is working through all people, not just the men. But when the women do this they're to cover their heads because it's a symbol of the authority that they are recognizing. It's not that they're inferior or have to do what the men say.

That's not it. It's they're recognizing the authority that is established by God and through the church system. And he says in verse 7 for a man ought not to have his head covered since he is the image and glory of God but the woman is the glory of man.

Because his direct authority is under Jesus under God. But the woman's authority is under the man. So the hair covering symbolized the authority she had under her husband which is one of the reasons she would cover her hair like that. So her hair generally was covered they would go into a place in a meeting and they might see a little bit of hair or whatever.

But they would cover their heads because that was a symbol of that authority. And so that's what's going on basically there. And it's a tough area of scripture to interpret very clearly and stuff.

Does that help at all? Yeah. I kind of can't wrap my head around it. So when I asked my pastor this about women preaching in the church. So he went on to say that the context is really important and the temple setting was divided between men and women one on one side and one on the other. There was a situation where arguments and disruptions were occurring to that setting and Paul was directly addressing that situation and addressing that particular body or group.

And then he went on to write in Galatians 328-29 there is no longer Jew or Gentile slave or free male or female. Your pastor blew it. Yeah he blew it. He blew it. He made a mistake.

Okay I'll explain why. So he's correct about the issue generally the women sat in the back the men sat in the front. The women now had new freedom in Christianity. Hey honey what did he say? Because there was no loudspeakers.

Did we go up in the front? The men would stand up or sit and preach. And so keep quiet. Do this under the authority of your husband.

He'll tell you at home. Alright. So to go to about women pastors and elders. They are not to be pastors and elders.

It is sinful for them to be pastors and elders. The Bible clearly says they're not to be. When people go to Galatians 328 there's neither Jew nor Greek. There's neither slave nor free. There's neither male nor female. You're all one in Christ. See now they can preach. That's not what it's talking about. There's neither Jew nor Greek slave or free.

Neither male nor female. You're all one in Christ. What he's talking about here is being saved. Because before in Galatians.

Remember in Galatians they're talking Paul's writing and reputation of the issue of the Judaizers were saying you've got to be circumcised to be saved. A lot of Jews there. And the Jews believed no God only came for the Jewish people not for everybody. But in Christ there's either male nor female. Jew, Greek, slave or female. They're all one in Christ.

That's what's going on. You can't take that rip it out of its context and say now women can be pastors and elders. Well if that's the case then I guess women aren't women are they? Because there's neither male nor female. Right?

So then can we use all the same bathroom then? Because how far is this going to go? So your pastor if he's using that verse to say that women can be pastors and elders he flat out blew it and I'd tell it to his face. Politely with respect but he's wrong. I can show you why if you want. I can explain where the scriptures clearly absolutely forbid women from preaching and teaching if you want.

Okay so it's up to you. Alright so Timothy 2, 12 and 13. I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man but remain quiet for Adam was first created and then Eve. So Paul is tying this into the created order. It's 1 Timothy 2, 12 and 13. When it says to be quiet it's the Greek word hessokia which means keep it down.

It doesn't mean absolute silence. And when we get back I'll explain a few more verses and then we'll move along. Okay so hold on buddy.

Here's a break. We'll be right back after these messages please. Stay tuned. Music Music Music Music Music Give me a call.

877-207-2276 Alright are you still there Seth? Alright so Paul has said he does not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority but remain silent. Okay now what I'm going to do is go to 1 Timothy 5, 17 1 Timothy 5, 17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. So the elders, some of them work hard at preaching and teaching so a preacher is by default an elder, right? Does that make sense?

Real simple. Now in 1 Timothy 3, verse 2 Paul says an overseer, that's the Greek word episkopos Episcopalian episkopos, a bishop or overseer then must be above reproach, the husband of one wife aneremias guinikas, husband of one wife is what it says in the Greek temperate, prudent, respectable. This is what Timothy he's writing to Timothy but there's one more thing I want to bring out in Timothy.

In 1 Timothy 3, 15 he says, Paul says, in case I'm delayed I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God which is the church of the living God in honor and support of the truth. So Paul is giving Timothy instructions on how to do stuff in the church and in the church the elders, the pastors are elders, women are not to be in authority over the men and the overseer is to be the husband of one wife. Now when we go to Titus, this is where Paul is writing to Titus, he says for this reason he wants to encrete, this is verse 5 and 6, that you would set an order what remains and appoint elders in every cities I directed, remember a pastor is an elder, okay, appoint elders namely if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion how does a woman feel that?

How does a woman meet that need? It doesn't make any sense and so he goes on and he says for the overseer must be above reproach, so now Paul ties overseer with elder so the overseer, the elder we can say functionally for now is the same office and they must be husband of one wife with children who believe, now this is normative, so what if a man's wife dies, can he no longer be an elder? That's not what the point is Paul only has one child, not two, children who believe well that doesn't mean he can't be an elder, what's going on here is that Paul is given the normative requirements and in every instance it's male he must be the husband of one wife, so he's got to be a man because the Bible says so that's what's going on and in Greek, furthermore nouns have gender, they can be masculine, feminine or neuter, that's like Spanish so you can have different words in different languages have gender and it's the same thing in Greek well elders, which is plural, nominative, masculine and that's the word that's used and then it says men, anthropoi, which is plural, masculine normative, which means subject, that's what's going on so women can't be pastors and elders, and one more last bit I know I'm long winded here, I did research on this, I've written a lot on it and I have an open standing debate challenge to anybody who wants to have a public debate with me go to your church, as long as it's live, online and or we can have it filmed, does the Bible support women pastors and elders?

I've been offering this challenge for 20 years and not a single person has ever taken me up on it, I want a pastor to do this why is that? Because they know, I'm going to go to the scriptures, they know, I'll go straight there I'm going to put them on the spot, so anyway, in my research of denominations that adopted women pastors and elders within two generations, 80% started approving of homosexuality okay? alright? Yeah, that clears it up a lot for me I appreciate that very much.

Okay, I've written a lot on this it's a big issue, and the reason it's a big issue is not because women are bad, men are good, that's not it, it's because men have a tendency to become lazy when enabled to become lazy when women step up and do a man's job, men tend to sit down and do nothing and in this culture where masculinity is under attack and femininity is the way, the truth and the life, men all the more don't want to risk anything because biblically they're not sure how to be men and I can teach them biblically what it means, not that I'm a great example of it, but biblically we follow Christ and we aren't supposed to be afraid of what your wife says, or your friends say or your boss says, you must be wise in all these things, but we're to stand up for truth even if it costs us, and men are more and more afraid to stand up and be men and they're more concerned with what everybody thinks about them and unfortunately what kind of clothes they're wearing what kind of car they're driving, etc. Okay? Alright, got anything else? I don't think so, I think we've cleared it all up I appreciate it very much.

Good, ask your pastor to call me if he wants we can have a discussion on it, you can go to CARM, you can look up the women and pastor stuff that's there, but if he says women can be pastors and elders, he is wrong and I would not trust him to properly understand the word of God It's very simple, okay? Alright, I appreciate it Matt, thank you. Okay, sounds good. Alright, now, sorry for the long wait, Clarice a whole half hour you've been waiting, thank you for waiting so what have you got? You're welcome, and amen to what you all just said to that gentleman, that was really good So, I have a couple of things I want to ask you, and hopefully I won't take up all your time, but so be it. So, my question is I was talking with someone Saturday evening and they said to me let me just preface this by saying, I've been a born again Christian for almost 43 years, and I am I don't have your mind, I don't have the years of study that you've done as far as everything that you've done, I highly respect you, I've heard your story of all the school and studying and all that you've done, I admire you for that and I listen because I know you know what you're talking about, I don't think anybody has a coin on God's market, but I think that you know what you're talking about and I love and respect you for that, that's why I call you to ask you certain things, and I don't have the recall that I used to call, I'm older my recall is not good, but I know God's word and I study it all the time, and read it all the time and so I was talking with this person and they said to me that Muslims believe in the same God that we do, that they believe in the same God, they just don't believe in Jesus, but they believe in the same God and I said well Jesus is God so how can they believe in the same God?

So I'd like to ask you your response to what you would have said to that I'd say, no they don't believe in the same God and I'd say let me explain something, God is a Trinity, and the Trinity is one God in three distinct simultaneous persons, and in Islam they openly deny the Trinity, openly deny it they do, and this is surah 573 in the Quran, they do blaspheme who say Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is no God except one Allah, now this proves they don't understand what the Trinity is, but they use the word Trinity and they call it blasphemy so we cannot, this is simple logic, if something is what it is, then it has certain properties and characteristics to it so God being a triune being means that God has one essence and that essence is triune in Islam God has one essence and the essence is singular, and so they cannot be the same in Christianity God is three distinct simultaneous persons, in Islam that's not who God is, in Christianity the second person of the Godhead became flesh, that's denied in Islam, so they do not affirm the same God, the God of Islam is pagan is the moon God, and it is not a true God and Islam is a false religion that's exactly what I told him, but he was a very argumentative person and it was very tiring to talk to him and I'm like, I'm done here, but anyway after a while there's just I'm not we'll be right back after these messages, we'll get on here with Clarice again, and please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276 here's Matt Slick. Alright everybody, welcome back to the show if you want to give me a call 877-207-2276 Clarice, are you still there? Yes sir, I am, thank you.

Alright Can I ask another question please? You sure can, go ahead Okay Do you believe that a person can be a practicing Catholic and be a true born again Christian? No No, official Catholic theology is anti-Christ, and so official Roman Catholic theology curses the Gospel and it says, for example Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 2068, it says that you attain salvation through faith, baptism, and the observance of the commandments. In paragraph 2036 it says that keeping the natural law is necessary for salvation, and paragraph 2070 says that the Ten Commandments are an expressed representation of the natural law, so keeping the Ten Commandments is necessary to obtain salvation. So it teaches a false Gospel because it doesn't teach justification by faith alone in Christ alone and it curses the Gospel by saying that those who would teach that believe that are wrong. Furthermore, it promotes idolatry in its worship and adoration of Mary. You bow down to Mary and believe Mary can do things that only God can do, so they attribute to the created thing that which belongs to God alone. So the Roman Catholic Church also turns grace into a work and it turns grace into a work by saying in order to get God's grace, though he doesn't owe it to you, here's the procedure you go through, it's called sacerdotalism where the priest has the authority to administer the grace of God that is accessed by the Catholic Church, and it's in Heaven. This treasury of merit is in Heaven and the Catholic Church has access to it and so it divvies it out according to what it says people are to do, so it turns grace into a work.

It is a horrible false religion. Well, that's what I thought, but I have a friend that told me recently that she was saved under a Catholic priest who practiced the gift of the Spirit and was not a typical Catholic priest. And he led her to a place to where that she had to die to self and accept Christ and that's what she did. So what I was hearing was, it's I, I, I, I did this, I did this.

I didn't hear, let me tell you what Jesus did for me. Yeah. That could just be an issue of sanctification. But it's possible that there are Catholic priests who really are born again and they stay there in order to witness to people and get them saved in the Catholic Church. I know that that is the case. I've heard that there are Catholic priests who become born again and they know the Catholic Church is false, but they stay there do stuff and witness and they're evangelists.

It's not very common, but I've heard that. So maybe, you know, he's a guy who's really saved. I don't know. But what I do when I talk to them is I say, look, let me ask you some questions. Are we saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone? Well, no.

Okay, well that's what I wanted to know. And sometimes I'll say yes and I still have to ask more questions to clarify. You have to do good works.

For what reason? To prove to God that you're saved? He already knows. He saved you. What are the works for? Well, if you don't have works, you don't have true faith. That's correct. That's what James talks about.

But it's not the works that save you. And then they go in and it gets more... And my notes on Calvinism are about 191 pages. But anyway, go ahead.

Oh, great. I'd love to read that. Do you have on your website, do you have some what you said referring to the Catholics, what you were talking about, your beliefs and what you have found to be true, and also what you said about Muslims, like the response to that, like points on your website that I could look at and just read it for myself? On Islam?

Absolutely. If you go to CARM, my website, and you go to the left menu, pull it down, you'll see Religions. I have stuff on, I've written over 100, I think 140, 50 articles on Catholicism, 140 or 50 on Islam. And so there's lots of stuff there.

But if you don't want to do what I do, which is become mentally anal-retentive and write forever, and you don't want to go through all those articles, you can just scan through and see which ones you want to read, you can also do something much easier. And that's go to, it's really easy to do, CARM.org forward slash C-U-T cut, and that's for cut and paste, just the word cut. And what it'll do is it'll take you to shortened versions of stuff, and there's Roman Catholicism there, and you can go there, and then there's also stuff on Islam. And so it's like, it's stuff that I use. It's CARM.org forward slash cut. C-U-T, yep. And it'll take you to the we call it a second-level page that has a list of things abortion, atheism, COVID, homosexuality, Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Oneness Theology, Relativism, Roman Catholicism, slavery, and stuff like that.

And there's a little bit more. And I developed it so I could copy and cut and paste. I'm sorry, go ahead. Okay, I'm going to give a shout-out to something the other listener was referring to, and you said you'd like to do this.

I know a Bible teacher who used to pastor, but he's also a Hebrew scholar that I have lots of respect for him, and he does, he lived in Israel for many years, and he teaches, and he does teaching tours. And he has, and I'd just love for you to look at it, he's Dr. Randall Smith, but it's called One Hour, One Book. Okay? Interesting, send me the information. Yeah, send it to me. Yeah, send me the information and I'll check it out. Email it to you, you mean?

Yeah, at the bottom of the website there's an email address, info at CARM.org and that's the way to do it because I have so many things going on that if it's not sent to me I'll forget it, okay? I'm sure, I'm sure. And listen, I appreciate your time and I appreciate you, God bless you. Alright, well God bless Clarice, thanks. Appreciate it.

Alright, bye-bye. Alright, so believe it or not, there's a friend of mine in one of the chat things, I don't know which room where he is, Dave Sherman, I'm going to just say his name, because he and I grew up together. I was 12 years old, I've known him since I was 12. So, I've known him for, let's see, 55 years. So, he said, I didn't call him on his birthday.

Yes, I did. Let the phone ring for a full minute. Never picked up, so there you go. I'm just giving a shout out. Alright, let's get to Dudley from Oklahoma.

That's another long wait. Hey, Dudley, welcome. You're on the air. Dudley, maybe you lost him. Sorry, I think the name was wrong. What's your real name then? Your name is incorrect? That's a weird name. Yeah, the name is incorrect.

My name is Braden. So, I didn't unmute myself. Thank you, Matt, for taking the call and taking the question. My question is in regards to part Calvinism about predestination. And my question is, in Mark chapter 4, when Jesus is explaining the purpose of the parables, and he says in chapter 4, starting at verse 15, and these are the ones along the path where the word is sown, when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. And my question to you, from a Reformed perspective, how would you go about answering someone that says, well, would that not be the instrumental means behind how God keeps that person from being saved?

Because personally, I've struggled with combating that issue. Well, it's interesting you said he keeps him from being saved as though he's going to get saved and God's stopping it. That's not the Reformed perspective. That's not a Biblical perspective.

So, I'm not sure if he has kind of misspoke it. So, this is a parable. And parables are meant to illustrate usually one main point, not always, and some sub-points, and they're generic, think of them as really cool wisdom statements. And so, in this parable, the sower goes out, and he is going to lay some, I wonder if I did an analysis on this. I'm curious. Because I've done a whole section on parables.

But I did them so long ago, I can't remember if I did it on this. Let me see if I've got this parable of the sower. I'm going to the parables.

I don't see it. There we go, parables. Anyway, I don't know.

So, it doesn't matter. So, when he says that the devil comes and takes away the seed, he's not saying that this is thwarting God's effort. God can say whoever he wants. What Jesus is doing is talking about the different kinds of evangelism, the different kinds of people, the different kinds of so-to-speak beliefs, not that they're true beliefs. Now, I want to say something here because this exact issue is the last issue of any significance that I'm wrestling with in Reformed theology. Because it's something like this.

Every now and then I think about it. Now, wait a minute. If God is going to grant people faith, Philippians 1.29, and that faith is in Christ, John 6.29, then how is it that Jesus would be saying, well, they're going to believe not quite, the devil takes it away. Does that mean they were going to believe and not because the devil stopped it?

That seems to be what's going to be the case. Does that mean then that they were going to believe on their own? Well, that can't happen because we know Jesus says, you can't come to me.

Let's grant it to you from the Father, John 6.65. Or does it mean that in God's sovereignty, he's working through the varying kinds of appearances of people who are looking at Christianity, believing in the truth. Because they're appearances of it, they look. But there's a degree of actuality that occurs in their heart. And Jesus is addressing this kind of a thing. So what I conclude is with stuff like this is that there is a responsibility that we people have as humans. And I haven't figured out logically, ontologically, scripturally, how to work that into the Trinitarian eternal lessons.

I'm working on that. I'm not getting very far. And so what I do is I say, well, I don't know.

I don't know how it works. But something's there. But at the same time, God works through that.

So it's like four rocks. You know, four levels that are being spoken of and God weaves his way through them and brings about exactly what he wants to when he wants. And so what Jesus is doing is explaining things on the human level with a little hint of the divine or the spiritual and that God is sovereign. And he's just talking about that to the believers. To the people around him, actually. Early on.

The covenant people. OK? Awesome. Well, I appreciate that.

And there's, if I can, there's one more question that I would like to ask you. You've got 30 seconds. That is, so with, OK, awesome.

With the doctrines of grace, one of the things I struggle with is I feel like over the time of studying them, I believe them, but they have wreaked havoc kind of in my mind where either I'm focusing too much on them or I'm never content with the limited knowledge that I have with them. Whoa. OK, dude. You've got to call me back.

OK, we're out here in the music because I had a sound problem. You call me back tomorrow. We'll talk. OK, buddy.

Call me back. Thank you, man. I really appreciate that. All right. So I think we are off right now. Oh, no, there is the music. Oh, it came back a little bit later than usual. I'm powered by the Truth Network.