This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Hope in the Morning. turning tragedies and tears into testimonies of hope. Grief has a way of changing everything. When Kelly and Justin each lost their spouse, the lives that they knew were suddenly gone.
and the road ahead felt uncertain and deeply painful. Many of us know that feeling, the sense that nothing will ever be the same. Scripture tells us that the Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the Christian spirit. And that promise is woven all through today's conversation. This is an honest conversation about grief that leads us unmistakably to joy, hope, and the faithful kindness of the Lord.
Kelly and Justin, welcome to Hope in the Morning. Yeah, I found your guys's page on Instagram before and just like many other people started following you for a while. And just there is definitely a beautiful joy that the two of you guys have. And it's not without, it's not without hardship and pain. But I would love to not only hear a little short rendition from each of you about your testimony prior to meeting each other, but then I really want to focus too on the restoration, the fact that the Lord has given you what we're calling in this episode, like a second spring, that you had the spring and this beauty with your first spouse for each of you.
And then the Lord brought winter into both of your lives and just this season of hardship. And yet the Lord had new growth and beauty that came from that. And now you're living in what we're calling second spring for this episode. And so can you each just give me a little short testimonial about what your life was like before you met each other?
Well, I would say that, you know, if I just. Backtrack to when I first got married. I was young, 18 years old. I got married young to my first wife and and We Had a really wonderful life in that way. You know, things weren't perfect, certainly.
We went through hard times like anybody else. But all of those seasons had always been healthy. We had never really ran through sickness as part of those hardships, you know, maybe poverty or something like that, especially early on in life. And, you know, I went through college and then seminary and became pastor and planted a church. And we just had this really beautiful big family.
I had adopted a couple of girls when I was 20. I adopted a 10-year-old and a two-year-old. And then, of course, we went on to have a few more.
So my first wife and I had six children together, and we had a church that we had planted. And then in 2020, she got sick with cancer. She was diagnosed. It was all kind of all in one. We didn't know what was going on.
She was having stomach pain, but it was 2020. And you can't really get to the doctor like you could before. And they kept writing it off. They thought she had torn muscle in her stomach. And we finally went into a ERM for the third time.
And they did a scan and came. Back and said, You've got you know lumps in your belly, masses in your belly. We want to send you over to oncology tomorrow. And before we could even leave, the oncologist came back in and diagnosed her with stage four cancer, and you know, she. Just devastated, rocked her whole world.
And she made it about six months from that period. She was diagnosed. In August of 2020, and then she made it until just through February of 2021. And that was a really, really rough season. You know, we went from being super healthy, you know, we're running, you know, five and 10 Ks on the weekends and exercising all the time, and, you know, just super healthy, you know, couple.
And then, and then she was just totally, just emaciated. You know, she just went downhill really fast. And by the December of that year, when she was sick, she was totally bedridden. And so that was just one of those really, really hard seasons. You called it winter.
And I would say it was winter and nighttime. You know, it was really dark. And then she passed. And that was a season of grief and despair that, you know, I don't know that, I don't know that any amount of time that you could really describe what that really, you know, what that really felt like. But, you know, it was just a really super dark time, very, you know, heavy grief, depression.
And I said that openly because I think a lot of people. People, you know, they see me as a pastor and they want to see that it's like, oh, it's supposed to be okay because you're a pastor, but it's not, it was really, really hard. And so, a lot of anxiety, a lot of depression, a lot of grief that I went through in that. And then that was about the time that I met Kelly. That's a brief synopsis.
I'll let Kelly share a little bit from her side, you know, what life was like. Yeah.
So me and my husband met in our early 20s, and we had what I would call your storybook love story. Everybody, we knew everybody around us was, you know, envious to an extent of the love that we shared. It was a A soulmate love that it was deeper than anything I'd ever experienced. And we had three girls. They are kind of spread apart.
So there's like six years difference between the first two and 10 years between the first and the last. And yeah, we just, we were building a landscaping business and life was so good. And my husband became really sick in 2015. We went from doctor to doctor trying to figure out what was wrong. We went to churches asking if they could help us to, you know, find doctors and help us to find somebody that can diagnose my husband and what was going on with him.
He lost, it was like 40 pounds in three weeks working landscaping and he would go into these like full body cramps and we just didn't know what was going on.
So in 2015, they hospitalized him, did some CT scans, and they diagnosed him a type 1 diabetic and they found some Things in his pelvic area that they're concerned about.
So they did a full body scan and then they found a tumor in his shoulder. And so they're like, well, every six months we've got to check on that. And things just kept going downhill with him. In six months, we went and we had that tumor on his shoulder looked at. There's no groom with it.
There was nothing going on with that, but he was getting sicker and sicker. And then in 2020, June of 2020, we took him because he was in horrific pain and we took him in and they did a colonoscopy. And of course, this was 2020, so they wouldn't let me in with him. And so I just remember driving that morning and me and the girls prayed outside his hospital room with him and got on the phone with him. And I went to work and I got a phone call within two hours and he said it was cancer.
And so I rushed over to the hospital, which was not even a half a mile, and went over there. And I got to see him at that point. And we just, we were devastated. You know, you'd never think that. Cancer that's going to strike somebody so young.
You know, he was 34 years old, and you just never ever imagine. And during our time of not knowing what it was, you know, he's like, I think it's cancer. And I'm like, stop saying that. You know, that's crazy. There's no way that you have cancer with 34.
And it was, it was stage four of colon cancer. And he made it almost a year, just a month shy of a year from diagnosis. And he passed away in May of 2021. I mean, you guys, so you guys did definitely have very similar paths that you walked through because not only did you. lose the loves of your life.
And but you're left with children. To raise and not only navigate your own grief, but navigate the grief of your children. And, Justin, I want to touch on something that you said because I think it's so important. And one of the things that we do as often as we can here on Hope in the Morning is having pastors on that are willing to be vulnerable about what. What those dark seasons look like, and how the Lord.
Genuinely walked you through those without trying to minimize the suffering that you went through or over-spiritualize what you went through because. That's what allows Your flock and people that look to you as an example to be able to have that same sort of vulnerability before the Lord, which is what He wants from us, right? We see that all throughout the Psalms, that David poured his heart out in true lament. And yes, he always came back to the character of who his God was. But you see men like David and men like Job that poured their hearts out before the Lord.
They didn't hide it. And I think that there's really a strengthening that can happen in the church when the leaders in the church are willing to say, this is the real truth of what my grief looked like. How did each of you walk not only through your own grief, but how did you navigate that with your children in that season?
Well, I think for me, I can answer and say that it was always about transparency. I started out, you know. If you would have asked me before my wife had died, if you would have said, okay, find flight, what do you think you are? I would have been like, oh, fight, you know, I'm a fighter. And when she died, I think this Like desperate longing to just run away.
I'm not saying run away. I'm telling you, like, I really thought about just. Putting six, five kids at the time, all of us had moved out, you know, putting five kids in the car and driving and not looking back, just let it all go. And I just um I went the season. I honestly, I just didn't care.
I mean, you know, it was rough here in Louisville, Kentucky, and, you know, things were going on here. And then, you know, coming out of COVID, you had all that. And I just didn't care. You know, in a sense, in my mind, the world could have been on fire, and I just couldn't pay attention to that. You know, I'd have been taking care of my wife for six months and, you know, she was totally veteran.
And then I came out of that.
So it's just being really transparent with. with my kids with the chili And I wanted to be really present. I wanted to be present for my children, specifically for my children, to be there for them. We recognized early on that everybody's grieving in their own ways. And, you know, just because somebody's.
looking like in a moment like they're doing okay. They're not And I remember one time. My youngest son, not my youngest, but my youngest son, he was just always the super sweet kid. He never had an angry moment. I mean, he was just always the goofy, laughy, you know, funny kid.
And we got in the car one day and he couldn't get his seatbelt down. You know, when you're like seatbelt locks up, and I mean, this kid just lost his mind. He was just yanking on that seat, you know, crying and, you know, all because he couldn't get the seatbelt down. And at first, it was this shake. It was like, what is going on?
And, you know, just cut your brain once quickly. And, you know, instantly I realized, oh, you know, he's having a mall and he's dribbling. And so, you know, I just wanted to be present with my kids. And so, thankfully, I was able to do that. The church was able to move me for the first time ever.
They were able to move me to a full-time pastor salary, give me a salary. And I was able to do that. In the midst of all of this, I didn't tell you that in the midst of it, our church went from 30 people to 300 people. And so, as my wife got sick and then she passed away, the church really grew. And so, the church moved me to full-time, and that allowed me to be home and be present with my kids.
And so, I'm not trying to sound cliche with them and see that, but I will tell you that you know, the act of being open and transparent and the physical act of being present was a bit made big differences in our lives. We sat with each other, we, you know, we made fires in the evening out back, and we would sit around the fire pit, or we would sit around and play board games. We would just purposefully put ourselves around each other. And that way, when somebody's going through something, we would be able to see it and we'd be able to help. And I was included in that.
I mean, I had my own moments. And so, yeah. There you go. I think that's a brief way to say it. What would you say?
Um, so I went through a little bit of a different journey. I went from Helping care for and provide for my husband, but he was home in the house with the girls. And two, I instantly became sole provider, sole protector, sole financial provider, sole emotional provider. And I fell into a pretty deep depression, and I found myself for about the first six weeks. Not wanting to get out of bed and just being Overcome with sadness and grief.
And I found it really hard to want to be mom without my husband there and to do it all on my own. And we struggled through it, but we struggled through it together, me and the girls. You know, you guys were talking about how Justin's a pastor, and on this widow group that I joined on Facebook, you post your story, and so I did that. I posted my story, and it got over 200 comments. You know, people like, Oh, I'm sorry, this is what I went through, this is what I went through.
And Justin's comment stood out to me. You know, he said that his wife passed away from the same cancer and that he had six kids. And so I I saw he was a pastor and I messaged him privately. I just asked him, I said, Can I ask you a question from a pastoral side? I said, I am a woman of the faith.
But I'm struggling. And do you struggle at all with knowing that the Lord? Didn't answer our prayer that our spouses did not get healed here on earth. And how are you dealing with that? Know he just is so wise, and he really is just so close to the Lord.
And he just ministered to me, and he kept leading me, you know, to Jesus and everything, and everything that I thought, and everything that I did, and it just kind of changed everything for me. I was. I didn't really get angry at God, but I just was so unsure of why, you know, why are you not listening? And, you know, after meeting Justin and him ministering to me, it just. it helped me day by day by day.
And you know, things just got easier and easier for me in that way to kind of understand and kind of have a little bit more faith in what the Lord's doing and what the Lord did with our spouses. And so Yeah, I had to jump back into the work world. And so I had to do that within six weeks of losing my husband. And that was really, really hard for me. I didn't wanna go back to work.
So I left my daughter, my oldest daughter, who was 14 at the time. She would homeschool her younger sisters and herself. while I went to work and then I would pick up. When I got home from work. And so that was just really, really rough during that time.
And after about a year, I moved here to Kentucky. I didn't have much support where I was. And so I moved here to Kentucky. And me and Justin just kind of had each other's back. You know, I helped him with the kids and anything he needed, and he helped me in so many ways.
I love that. I love how the Lord used what What you were already doing to serve him, Justin, in the church as a pastor, to then. Speak into the life of a widow, which is, you know, what the book of James talks to us about. This is what true religion is: caring for orphans and widows in the time of their distress. And so, not only, Justin, did you have your own children that you were having to pastor, but now the Lord is bringing this widow really to your feet, saying, I need.
I need God's word. I need someone that understands and can speak life into me, even as you are in your own dark winter. And did you find that being able to speak truth to her life reminded your own heart of the truth that you needed as well? Oh yeah, for sure. Anytime you minister.
in any way, whether it's you know Sunday school teaching or preaching a sermon or you know Real world ministry and a hospital room, whatever, you know, go on a mission trip. You always hear the missionaries come back and they'll say, you know, I got way more out of that than I was able to give. And so, similar thing in ministering to somebody who's lost a spouse, it's a good reminder for yourself. You know, it's one thing when you're going through that kind of anger. You know, and I know Kelly said she wasn't angry with God, but for lack of a better term, you know, you get through that kind of anger portion of the grief, and then you, you know, you're doing that by yourself.
But then you hear someone else going through it, and it. You know, when you minister to them, those words are definitely. Penetrating. Yeah, they're penetrating your own soul. You know, oftentimes it's a little preacher.
I'm preaching to myself and I am. And so that was definitely one of those moments. When we come back, we're going to talk about how the Lord brought you guys together from not just a relationship where you could understand each other from widower to widow, but how the Lord started to. Entwine your hearts to one another as well.
So join us again in a moment on Hope in the Morning. Have you ever walked through the deep suffering of a friend And been at a loss for what to say? How can you comfort someone when they've just lost a loved one or been diagnosed with cancer? Join us on Hope in the Morning to hear testimonies of people who've gone through life's hardest trials. and share what you can do to serve others in similar circumstances.
To learn more, visit us at hopeinthemorning.org. Hope in the Mourning allows you to lean into the suffering of others and helps equip you to purposefully mourn with and meaningfully minister to those suffering in your midst. May these testimonies cause you to see our God with fresh and thankful eyes. and may you seek to be His hands and feet to every wearying heart. Visit hopeinthemorning.org to learn how you can partner with us in ministry.
Hope in the Morning is a listener-sponsored program that encourages the weary, equips those who walk beside them, and evangelizes the lost. If you want to partner with this ministry, visit hopeinthemorning.org. And may you be filled with hope as you continue this episode of Hope in the Morning. Welcome back to Hope in the Morning. I am joined today with Justin and Kelly, and we are talking about their season of being in dark winter.
They both were married to wonderful spouses whom they loved very much. They both had children with them, and the Lord brought a quick ending to both of those marriages through cancer, unfortunately. And But the Lord doesn't leave us in our suffering, right? The Lord is so kind. He is a God of redemption, and you can see redemption at every turn.
Especially when we're looking for it, which is what we want to do here on Hope in the Morning: we want to be honest and transparent about our sufferings. But we also want to point to the goodness and the faithfulness of the Lord.
So, you both had just shared how you ended up being on a Facebook group for widows and widowers. And Kelly, how you had reached out to Justin after seeing that he was a pastor and a widower with six children. And Kelly, you had three. And you reached out to him just asking him for basically some spiritual guidance and some spiritual advice. And how did the Lord how did the Lord slowly move your relationship into one where you both realized I I could actually fall in love again.
The Lord may may restore. that season for me. You go first? Yeah, I will. Go for it.
Well, I just feel like. It happened for me sooner than it did for him. He was in a very, very deep grief. And not that I wasn't, but. I just had a different outlook.
You know, I knew that I didn't want my girls to grow up without a father. And, you know, Was my best friend, and I was falling in love with him. And he was so good with the girls and his own children, and I think. there there was a bond that deepened As I witnessed, you know, how he was with my girls and how he protected me and. Yeah, I fell in love with him.
Somewhere along the way. And he knew we were very vocal with each other about where we were emotionally and what we were ready for, what we weren't ready for. Um Yeah, that's my side. And then somewhere along the way Anyway, I think for me, it just took a long time to. I felt like every time I would take a step forward, there was always a pain involved there.
You know, there was more separation. And it was always. Um It was everything. It was from the littlest things, you know, emptying out bathroom cabinets and, you know, cleaning out a clothes order. You know, I became very nostalgic in that way, which I'm really not that kind of a person.
I'm not nostalgic about most things, but in that grief, in that season of grief, I was.
So when we started coming together, it took me a little longer, but so we knew each other for. Uh, one over a year, and then you know, we started dating, and then we dated for a year. but I'm a slow mover and Yeah, yeah. Kelly was ready to she had fallen in love with me and she had made that known. And it wasn't that I had not fallen in love with Kelly, but I think I was kind of fearful to fall in love with him.
And I was having all these. you know thoughts about You know, if I get married again, this is a thought that. Ran through my head often was: if I get married again, if I date, I'm dating to get married. And if I get married, then Know, have to potentially go through this again, or at least one of us. You know, that's every acne that we all face.
I mean, unless. The Lord comes, which I'm fine with. But it's funny because you're such a realist, and I'm a dreamer. My head is always in the clouds, you know. And I'm like, but we can't bring our spouses back, you know, they're not coming back.
And I looked at it like we can fall in love again, you can love two people and. I think that was just a little bit of a struggle for you where you didn't see it that way and were having a hard time. Yeah, and then, you know, then all the luxury. You know, our faces blending, and you know, what that was going to end up looking like.
So it took a little while, but you know, then I remember one morning I woke up and I think that I was. really Kind of down that I'm waking up alone again. And, you know, I'm running numbers in my head. And I'm like, it's, you know, I've been a thousand over a thousand nights that I've slept by myself in this bed. And, you know, I miss my wife and I miss having her here with me.
And I don't know, it was like a light bulb moment that I was like. You're doing that to yourself at this point. You know, I didn't do that to myself in the sense of I would have kept my wife if the Lord would have allowed me. But at this point, you know, we were three years removed from my wife being gone. And I just had this thought that said, there's this beautiful woman who loves you, and you know that she loves you, and you know that she would be married to you, and you're waking up alone because.
You haven't asked me to make you, and so that was like a turning point moment. I had promised my kids that I would keep them up to date where I was. And so, before I ever met Callie and talked with my kids, and then when I told you, transparency was a big thing for me, and still is. And so talked to them other kids before we met. Talked with all the kids before we were still dating.
So I brought all the kids in, and I talked with all the kids. And I was feeling lonely and I wanted to be married again. And I told them, I said, you know, dad's lonely. And, you know, I've been dating Kelly for over a year and I really like him. I'm falling in love with him.
Think I want to get married to her. And it was for me, my oldest son. He looked at me and he was like, Well, we all saw that coming. You know, I'm getting all key to your head, and then I'm like, Of course you are. You know, we can all see it.
So, yeah, it was sweet. Did you both struggle at all? Because I hear this from widows and widowers. Did you guys struggle at all with feeling like to find joy again was to somehow diminish what you had with your spouse before, like to somehow I don't know how to put this, like to find, to find joy again. I know they struggle a lot with.
grief and joy, being able to be held at the same time. And again, it's like, yes, you guys are remarried, you love one another, you're in a new season of this beautiful union that the Lord has brought together. But I know even from watching your pages is that it doesn't mean that you never have days of grief or sadness or missing the spouse that God had first given you.
So, how did you both kind of help each other through those hard days and helping remind each other that it really is okay to welcome joy? into your your grief. I'm saying one thing to that is, you know, you don't know that I've really struggled in feeling like I was diminishing. One, I don't know that that would be the way that I would work, only for myself. I'm sure maybe others.
Could say it differently, but you know, for myself, I think that the action of of having joy in the beginning. Did come with a sense of guilt. Like, Um you know like you're enjoying something without them And, you know, in a cheap way, you know, it would have been like when my late wife was with me, if, you know, if we had a show that we were watching on, you know, some streaming network, Netflix or whatever, if we were watching some show and then you find out that like the other one watched it without you, and then you feel guilty that they watched it. You're like, you know, why would you watch it without me? It kind of felt in a similar way, definitely way stronger, but like I'm doing something without them.
I had to buy a vehicle soon after my wife had passed. And She had loved that we had saved up money. You know, I told you early on, we kind of went through some poverty and early on in our marriage. And so, you know, we had no debt.
So, we had saved up our money and we had bought this vehicle, this big SUV that my wife had always wanted. And then she passed. She only got to drive it maybe a couple of times before she got sick. And then she couldn't drive it anymore because we were afraid she'd pass out.
So I had to sell that. And that came with this guilt. That I had to sell her vehicle because it broke down. And then I had to sell it for cheap. And that felt guilty about that.
And then I had to buy another car and I felt guilty about that. And so, yeah, definitely was like a guilt that kind of came with it. And I will say that us being together for me, helped me to to really You know, when I get in that moment where I'm feeling guilty, then Kelly's kind of there. Bringing me back up, you know, that she's her presence and, you know, her making it okay for me to feel guilty or not, excuse me, not guilty, but feel grief. You know, even though we've just done something really happy together, we've had a birthday together, or you know, we, you know, some big things happened and everybody was happy.
And then you start to feel that guilt. And then, you know, Kelly would be there to kind of help pick me up out of that.
So I think it's like what we read in the Proverbs that, you know, two is better than one, because if one falls in a ditch, the other one can pull them out. And that's what Kelly was to me. Yeah, and like when Sarah's birthday comes up, you know, I go and I go buy flowers and I give them to Justin to go bring to her graveside. We have kind of a bittersweet day coming up, and that's March 5th. That is the day that his wife, his late wife, passed.
And that's also our second youngest birthday that I brought into the marriage. And so it's kind of like a perfect description of what we're just talking about, you know? Like, there's a sadness to the day, but there's a joy to the day. And, you know, I. We allow each other to feel that sadness and that grief.
And, like you said, we're just there to pick each other up and to help remind each other of. I think you said when you said you hold them at the same time, you're holding grief and you're holding joy at the same time. And it feels a little confusing maybe in the beginning, but after a while, you kind of get used to it and you go, this is. You know, it's like if you've ever, you know, kicked pushers and you, you know, you're uneven on one side, it kind of feels like that, but you can still do it. You just have to accept the fact that this is the moment you're in.
And you know, today's going to be a hard day, and we know it is, but. know we also want to find the joy in it and so i think we've been doing a pretty good job of that definitely I think it's actually, that's a really beautiful example that the Lord put in your guys's marriage, that the same day that Sarah went to heaven is the day that you celebrate your second youngest's birthday. I mean, that actually is a really beautiful gift that he gave you guys, that you do have this joy that can enter into that day, but also for your children to be able to see that both can be held simultaneously, which I think is a concept that even the church at times has a hard time with. You know, I know, again, from following you guys, that sometimes people don't understand. A new marriage.
They don't understand the beauty of finding that new love. They feel like somehow it's abandoning what you had before. But the reality is, is that you both fully fulfilled. your wedding vows to your late spouses. And actually, what a beautiful thing that you guys so loved the union of marriage with the spouse that God had initially given each of you that you desired that union again.
I think that that's a huge testament to the sweetness of the marriages that both of you had and the fact that you both longed to have that again. And what a sweet thing, what a sweet gift that the Lord brought you guys together. And what does family life look like for you guys now as a blended family bringing nine children together? And what does that look like for you guys? We've been describing it for a while as slappy chaos because it really is.
Happy chaos. It is wild sometimes. I mean, not always. You know, we have older kids that drive, and so we have our moments. It's funny, you know, if we had four kids going to the store with us, we're like, Oh, this feels light.
It's wild. We, you know, there's kids that drive. And so there's the literally the driveway is full of cars and, and, you know, the table is full. We, you know, we have this gigantic table. And, and, you know, if they bring, if the older ones bring over boyfriends or girlfriends, or if the, you know, the oldest ones come over with their spouses or the grandkids, then, you know, we're pulling out two and three folding tables and putting out tables for everybody.
And, and, you know, everybody always feels bad when they see how much we're cooking. They're like, oh, I feel bad that you're cooking so much. Like somebody's cooked with pasta. You know, we're going to see the big tin diamonds, you know, noodles. And so, yeah, it's just, it is happy chaos.
You know, we're, we're kind of ripping and rooming everywhere. But The families did, you know, we blended together really well, and everybody loves each other really well, and we certainly have the moments. where somebody needs to. Go to the room, be alone for a little while or something. But I think overall, you know, everybody just tries to demonstrate.
Love to each other, and we try to be kind with each other. And if ever somebody steps out of that, then everybody else is there around to say, hey, you know. Be kind, you know. That's our word right now, right? Be kind, you know.
Kindness and patience, kindness and patience. Kindness and patience. Yeah.
We do that often.
So, yeah. Yeah, you know, it's but. That water meter runs out real fast at night, so you gotta like spread out the water run three times a day. Yeah, knowing. Back to remember when Titus looked at you, this was before we married.
And it was just you guys, it was like two of two kids and you at the table. And what was it that he said to you? He said how it doesn't feel. It's the same when it's just you guys. And that even if there's fighting and bickering, he loves the fact that our family comes over and sits and has dinner with you guys and he cherishes that so much.
And I thought that was one of the sweetest things that Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, we long for it. We love having a big family. And, you know, everybody's in it. I think everybody loves it.
And whenever it's light, you know, I say light, meaning there's only a few people doing something, then we're all like, well, Still is it the same? Yes. Exactly.
So, yeah, when she's laughing, it's fun. And we're, you know, excited to have grandkids getting in the mix. And so, that's fun. That's what we're doing.
So, yeah, we're really excited about that, too. I think that's exciting. It actually reminds me. I have it open here because it reminds me of the verse in Isaiah 61:3, where it talks about how the Lord will bring comfort to all who mourn and grant to those who mourn in Zion, giving them a garland instead of ashes, and the oil of gladness instead of mourning, the mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting, so that they will be called oaks of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he may be glorified. And I see that in your guys's testimony: the Lord has given you this sweet season in place of ashes, and yet you guys desire to use all of this for his glory and to proclaim his goodness.
And Justin, I think you had said something, you can correct exactly how I say this, but you had said something like the Lord turned your open wounds and turned it into a lighthouse. And I thought, That was so powerful because those of us that have Jesus inside of us, that's what we want to radiate to the world, right? Is this light of hope? And oftentimes the Lord shines his light most brightly to others. through our wounds.
And in the same way that we see the goodness, the ultimate goodness, the ultimate compassion and redemption of the Lord through the wounds of Jesus Christ. And what a blessing that is. And if you're listening today on the radio, I would say, you know, follow us on our podcast, which is Hope in the Morning, or on our YouTube, which is Hope in the Morning backstage, and finish the remainder of this episode with us because we're going to talk about. Helpful things that the church can do, hurtful things that the church should avoid, and just kind of what it looks like to actually use our wounds to proclaim the goodness and faithfulness of the Lord. All right, so going forward with that.
Really, I see how both of you, and actually, I was thinking, Kelly, I was watching some of your guys' videos the other night, and the way that you look at him is just so sweet. Like, you can just tell that you are smitten and happy, and that. That's just like our Lord, right? To give us beauty for ashes. And here, you know, you guys both have talked about how you had wonderful marriages that you.
Loved. Both of you guys were thrilled and content in your marriage and with the life the Lord had given you, and yet, The Lord chose a different path for each of you. And Yet the Lord in his kindness has given you this second season of not only love between the two of you, but to see that amongst your children. And even what a what a unique thing that your children can. Empathize with one another.
You know, when one of them is having a hard day missing their dad, I'm sure that your kids, Justin, understand that ache because they miss their mom. And There there's something there that I think is a richness of compassion. which is something that we really want to grow. In the church, and that's part of what the Ministry of Hope in the Morning is about: is growing. Empathy.
In the heart of the church, so that we really can minister to one another with the hands and feet of Jesus. Because if you can't put yourself in someone else's shoes, which some people have that gift and some people don't, you know, some people that's more of a struggle. But we're all called to be merciful, right? We're all called to love the widow and the orphans in their distress and to meet them. In their need.
And part of that, as Proverbs talks about, is being able and ready to give a timely word and how sweet a timely word is to a hurting heart. Can you guys share with us a little bit what were some of those timely words? And then, you know, as a as a juxtaposition, what are some words that Weren't timely, or maybe weren't said with a heart of compassion. What should we aim for, and what should we avoid? Yeah.
Boy, I got lots of them. I do too. Unfortunately, I have more negative. To stay away from positives, though, I definitely think, you know, there are some people, I think you said rightly, that there are some people that. Uh Well, Romans, Paul said it in Romans this way: that some people have the gift of ministry.
And that's a real gift to be able to minister to someone. And sometimes that's words, and sometimes it's the absence of words. I think sometimes, you know, being present, we saw that with, you know, Job in the book of Job, as, you know, his friends sat with him for a while and they didn't say a word. They just sat there with him. And Job didn't send them away.
I remember right after my wife had passed, my My sister-in-law and my parents just came over and just, they were just here. They were at the house and they made themselves present and they just jumped up and helped with laundry and helped with dishes or went out and got some food or whatever. And they just stayed for a while. And I knew that that couldn't last forever. And it didn't.
It lasted a very short season, but it was a sweet blessing just to have them here. And I had another friend until Jay, I used to work out with my wife and we used to. you know, exercise together every morning. We would come down and we would work out. And I had this friend at the church and he contacted me and he said, hey, I know you used to work out with you.
With your wife, he said, You know, would you would you want a workout partner? And I said, Well, she work out at the house. We got kids. I can't go to a gym, you know, I can't leave them all here. And he said, No, no, no, I'll come to you.
And so, he would come over to my house at 5:30 in the morning, and he had to drive, you know, 40 minutes to get here. And he would drink 40 minutes, and he'd get to my house at 5:30 in the morning. And we would work out from 5:30 until 6:30. And then we would sit and we would talk from you know 6:30 until 7 or something. And when he would have to leave, and we did that for a year.
You know, he did that every single day, maybe, maybe not every day, but say, you know, four or five days a week. He'd come over at 5:30 in the morning and work out with me and just sit with me. And he never once tried to give me. you know some Words of wisdom. He never tried to.
He did give me words of wisdom, but he never tried to. It was never like he was aiming. To try to make it better. I think that's where some people get mixed up, they want to make it better, they want to fix it. And so, and then what I really find is that they wanna fix it and they give you these words, and then they almost feel like if, well, if you're not better because they gave you those words, then either you're not paying attention or, you know, you're, It's almost like they put the blame on you because their words didn't fix you.
And so, generally speaking, I would say I don't think there's like a set of words that I could say, this is what you say to somebody. I think that being really intentional about you know What the person is going through, what their individual situation is, and then, you know. helping in that, offering general help. Uh, like I answered, but I meant what I meant to say would be like specific help to say a specific help on what they need. You know, I've had lots of people contact me and say, Oh, Justin, you know, can I go to the grocery store for you?
Or, you know, can I come clean your house for you? And I didn't ever take any fun cleaning my house, I didn't want that, but I appreciated the offer when it was specific versus the difference of saying, Let me know if you need anything. Right. When somebody said, Let me know if you need anything, it always felt like it put pressure on me to like.
Well, what do I need? What could I have you do? And now I'm like searching for something for this person to do so they feel good about. Helping me. I didn't understand anybody who wanted to do that.
I don't think they knew any better. I'm just saying it added pressure. And I think it always felt better when somebody would call me and say, Can I do this for you? Can I, you know, come on your lawn? Or can I go get you some groceries?
Or, I mean, for a while, they set up a meal train at church and they would, you know, they'd bring us meals. And though we have PTSD of lasagna, you know. And sleep was on there. But it was wonderful when people would be specific. And so that's one thing I would say is, you know, look at somebody and specifics to what they are and what they're going through.
You know, if they've got little kids offering to maybe babysit or bring over diapers or, you know, something that they might need in that situation, being specific was always so helpful. And just then it gave me something to say yes or no to, not something for me to have to think about. Yeah.
You know, for them to do. Yeah.
Kelly, before I hear yours, I want to say one thing that I think is really important, Justin, is that your friend that called you and said that I knew, I know that you worked out with Sarah in the morning. Can I be your friend to do that? That takes intentionality and it takes people actually knowing you. Prior to your loss, which again, we've talked about this many times on Hope in the Morning, but it's important that we're in a church and actively in a church where you know people, because then you're gonna know how to best minister to them. I mean, you talk about how here years later, Justin, that mattered to you deeply, that he sat with you, that he exercised with you, he knew you, he knew what part of your routine was and how that was now gonna be disrupted.
And he stepped in in a way that was very unique to you. And I think that that's such a neat thing. That's very much the hands and feet of Jesus, right? Because he knows us uniquely. He knows us intimately.
And it's not just a generic thing. I can't tell you how many people have come on and said, don't say, let me know if you need anything. And I'm sure we all have said it at some point, right? Because you don't know. And it's better than saying nothing at all.
But that's why we wrote Hope in the Morning, because we wanted people to know at the end of everyone's chapter what actually is helpful and what are some things that maybe we don't realize are hurtful, but they are hurtful.
So Kelly, what were some of the things for you that were helpful versus what was hurtful?
So, helpful, you know, I come back to when you were telling the story about Paul working out with you, Justin. Like you sat on the phone with me, you know. I know you and Sarah had routines, we had routines, you know, when the kids are in bed, you put on a movie and you eat some popcorn together. And so, me and Justin would do that. He'd sit with me and we'd watch a show together while we're talking on the phone and you know, discuss that with each other.
And that to me was. What is Being the hands and feet, and it was comforting, and it was being around somebody who knew exactly what I was going through. Because if you haven't gone through it, you just don't know. You know, like my friend that told me, please just go see somebody, go see a counselor. And that's the last thing that I wanted to hear: is to go talk to a counselor because you're asking me to go sit.
with somebody who Has no idea my life story, has no idea the relationship that I had with my husband, yet they're gonna counsel me and tell me how to get through that. And to me, that made no sense for me personally. And so th that was probably my ease, but Things that were said to me. are frequently But you had a love like nobody I've ever seen before. And you should be glad that you had it for as long as you did.
And that was just hurtful. Because, yes, I'm very grateful. And I would do it a hundred times over, even if I knew that I was going to lose him each and every time. But to tell me that I should be grateful for the time that I did have with him, it stings and it hurts because I didn't choose it. I would have him for the rest of my life if I could, you know.
And in my world, I I never I didn't know a world of of of of pain and Than being away from somebody. You know, I always pictured it. I have never been close to death with people and spouses. And so I looked at it like I married Jonathan, and that was going to be us for the rest of our lives until we were old and gray and we died from old age. And to have that happen so early on in life, it's it just rocks you, it makes you realize that nothing is permanent, yeah, and that you know, except the Lord, and and so I think it deepened my relationship with him.
But when people would say stuff like that, or you know. Forgive me. I think it was helpful too when people would say to me that Um you know, when they would recognize the pain. Rather than trying to fix it in any way, they just simply recognized it. I remember there was that guy, he was a widower himself.
He had been widowed 10 years earlier. And this was maybe a few weeks after my wife had passed. And he didn't even know me. And he called me. He was from another church.
He called me and he said, I've heard about what's been going on. You know, some other people I've known. And so they contacted me and I went and I met with him. I said at the Panera Bread. And I just remember him sitting there and he just affirmed.
And I'm not trying to use a buzzword of the day or something, but he really did just affirm what I was going through. And he was just, you know. I remember the first thing that he said when we sat down, and he said, This is really first reusing it. And I said, Oh, it's, you know, this was just maybe two weeks ago or three weeks ago. And he said, Oh, you know, that's real pain.
He said, That's, I just remember him saying, like, that's real pain. And, and in that moment, I thought, you know, he gets it. Like, there's not really a better way to describe it. You know, real, I didn't realize that I didn't know what real pain was, but you know, when he affirmed that and, Uh just made space. Uh to be You know?
I don't know, vulnerable and say that this was really something that was hurtful.
So I think that was something that was really helpful: just to affirm the pain and not try to fix it. Because I think when everybody tries to fix it, it makes you feel like then you become defensive of your pain. You know, if somebody affirms it and says, you know, we understand you're hurting. And they can't fix it. That's the thing.
And I think people feel this like guilt if you're a fixer. You know, you feel this guilt, like, why can't I fix this for you? And you just can't, you know? Yeah.
But being willing to sit there in those ashes with somebody, that's what you need. And, you know, We've talked also about the fact that hurry and love are incompatible. And in the Americanized church, we often are in such a hurry all the time. I mean, we're not only in a hurry in our own lives, but as a church, we're often in a hurry. And I actually had a pastor on here very recently.
I think his episode just aired last week. And he talked about the fact that. Uh In order to be A servant-hearted Christian, you have to be willing to be. be inefficient. And he said the church doesn't like to be inefficient, the American church.
But we have to understand that it's a slow process. It's not A to B. It's not, I'm going to do these three-step program and they're going to be all better by step three. You know, or they're going to go through the five stages of grief, and by the time they hit that fifth stage, they'll be done. Or at the culmination of year one, it's over.
And it's not, it's a lifetime sorrow. That you both will carry, and it has struck me not only in your guys' story, but you know, as I read and interact with various widows and widowers. That The loss of a spouse is A very unique type of loss because of what God does in the union of husband and wife, where He makes this one flesh, He makes you one. They are, you know, to borrow what the world says, they're your other half. And so when you're separated, from your other half, who God has made this union with.
it's a ripping apart of you, of your of your own flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone. And yet here you are left to live and navigate your children through these things But You're mangled. You don't know what this new you. Looks like because it's not, it's not fully you anymore because of what God brought together. Um I think I think that Understanding how the church can serve to as a whole, not just your own individual church, because Justin, what you're saying with that man.
Being willing to say, you know what, I don't even know him. But I'm going to reach out to him. and just see how can I be a brother in Christ to you. And that's a really big takeaway for men and women, but especially men. You know, we we've noticed that um Men as just a general rule of thumb, they have a harder time with empathy of understanding how to step into another man's grief.
Justin, how has it changed the way that you pastor and the way that you counsel other people? Yeah.
So, you know, I think it's interesting. I told you we were a tiny church when we, for a long time, we were. 25 or 30 people for Seven years, literally more like 10 years. But Uh We had a A pianist. She, our only musician in the church.
You know, she sang and played piano and. She was a widow. And when I met her, she was probably four years removed from being a widow. And. You know, I knew that she was a widow, and we and we tried to minister to her.
I mean, I knew in my brain, you know, what the scriptures say: that you know, real, real, true religion is to is to minister to widows and orphans. And so I knew that, and we did that, and we tried to do it to the best of our ability. But, you know, then years go by, and she stayed with us the whole time. And then when I lost my wife, Uh, her name is Sherry, and Sherry and I developed a friendship, and I developed an understanding. of what she had been going through.
And I didn't. Really, fully know it, and I don't think you could, I don't think anybody can. And, but the Lord developed that in me. He developed something in me and has opened up doors for me to be able to speak to many situations, whether it's the loss of a child or even in divorce situations when someone is losing somebody that they love, and especially in those situations when they're losing somebody that they love, that they don't want to lose it, they don't want to lose that. That's a unique situation.
You know, there's a difference in grief when two people want to get away, or you know, when they want to be, when maybe there's a scenario you want to be away from, and you're stuck in it. But this is a unique thing in that you have two people that don't want to be separated and then they are separated. And that's what death is: death is separation. And so, um, It's definitely made my ministry stronger to be able to speak into scenarios of. I have, at least in my own way, I've been through what you've been through.
And so here's ways I can help minister to you. There was a gentleman here recently, maybe just a few weeks ago, that had lost his wife and his sister goes to our church. And so I don't know this man and just know the scenario because his sister goes to our church and she asked me, would you call him? And of course, you know, I feel like that's where the Lord has put me. And it's been that, you know, for the past.
Five years. It's been over and over and over, opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to speak into scenarios where you probably wouldn't have had much of a voice before, because men especially do not want to hear you if you don't have. A like-minded experience. I've told the story a few times of this man who came into our church a few weeks after my wife had passed. And this man came into our church and he didn't want to talk.
It was after service. This place was halfway empty. There was one center aisle. And he came in and he sat down and I went over to try to greet him. And he was crying and he wouldn't talk.
And I said, well, it seems like you might need a minute. I'll just give you some time. And I went back to the back and I did a few other things. When I came back up, he was on his knees and he's facing the cross and he's got his arms outstretched. And he's big fucking out here.
He was staring at this cross above the baptistry. And I went and I knelt down beside him and I said, Hey, I know you said you don't want to talk, but it sure looks like you need something. And he looked back at me with this. Furious anger. And he said, I just lost my wife and I lost my daughter.
They both just died yesterday or maybe two days ago, whatever it was. He said, They just died in a car accident. What would you know about that? And then, you know, tears flooded in my eyes. I looked back at him and I said, Well, I might know a little more than you might think.
And so I'm shared with him how I just lost my wife and I was left with six kids. And in that moment, I was able to. Lead him to the Lord, like literally point him to the Lord and to relate with him and say, I'm there, I'm walking with you. And that door would not have been opened. If it wasn't for the loss of my wife, and so I see that the Lord used it.
Super difficult. And I don't think we can flip that around and say, you know. God is life and him is life and that's why Christ came is to give us life. But death is a part of this life. Death is a part of not what God created.
God created us. For eternity, but man has brought sin into the world, and this is a consequence of sin: is that death is in the world. But what God does with that, he takes it just like what Paul said, he flips it around, and we can say, Oh, death, where is your sting? There is a sting. But but It's like the Lord triumphs over that sting, and he, and he can, when you have a relationship with him, he can bring something out of it that in no way, You would have without him.
Yeah.
Because then it. it loses all its meaning.
Well, it reminds me of the scripture verse that says that he is able to do abundantly more. Than anything that we ask or think, right? Because he's so other than us. Kelly, have you found that? Losing Jonathan and going through that hardship has uniquely equipped you to be an effective pastor's wife because that's no small calling either.
For sure. Yeah, I definitely believe so. I think that In losing Jonathan, my relationship with the Lord has just flourished. You know, I realized. early on in my grief that I really put Jonathan here and the Lord heal.
You know, I had Jonathan here on earth. He was my spouse, and I really did go to him for my needs when I really should have been going to the Lord with all of my needs. And, you know, he was my spouse and my other half. But I definitely realized that I wasn't. putting them in the order that they should be in and In the first few months, the Lord really revealed that to me, and I had to change.
That You know, I had to, the Lord's the only thing that I had to lean on now. I had nobody else. And I think in that time of grieving, that, you know, the Lord just. Really? Built Helped me build that relationship with him and just go so much deeper with him.
And it has helped me to. I don't know, have a different view, have a different compassion, and really have a heart for ministry through. losing Jonathan. What are some ways that you guys view your own marriage now? differently having both been through loss?
What are some things that that you've implemented into your own marriage having gone through that? Yeah.
I'm so, you know, ate up all the time. I'm ate up with how brief life really is. The brevity of life is Mm-hmm.
Okay. Not intentionally, but really on into adulthood, and you just don't see it this way, you know. You feel like you have forever, and so now, you know, if Kelly and I, we're still humans, and you know, we have our arguments, we have our moments, you know, we have time, we're you know, we're We're on the chaos side of happy chaos. And that happens. I want to keep that so brief.
You know, I don't, I would rather be done with the fight. Then be right because I just don't want to waste time. Yeah.
You know, whereas, you know, early on, I'm headed and really opinionated. And so, you know, like those things happen kind of all at once. And, you know, with my first wife, I would want it to be with me. And, you know, now I'm like, I just don't want to fight. I don't, you know, we don't know, I literally do not want.
I don't want to waste a second. Because and so. To shorten that, I would just say. The Lord has taught me to count my days, you know, to number your days. And I think there's wisdom in that.
And so I think that totally has led over into our marriage is to say, counting days, number days. We do not know. We genuinely do not have a promise that we will have tomorrow. And that's in a real way, that feels in a real way. And so I just try to live that every day to say, I don't know how much time I have.
So, you know, buy her the flowers or, you know. She wants to go line dancing. I'm trying to bunk her out of it, but Annie. Kelly, before we get to your answer real quick, I want to ask you this. Justin, do you think that that's part of why scripture talks about that it's better to go to the house of mourning than it is to go to the house of dancing?
Because it helps us to. See the brevity of life. Why do you think so? There is a wisdom that comes. From Morning.
There is a humbling that happens that you couldn't get away from if you wanted to. I mean, even at times that I did want to.
Okay. You just can't learn in a different way. You think it's what the Lord said it this way: that nobody likes. Nobody likes the pruning. Nobody likes chastening for the moment.
But you have to prune the tree. for the tree to produce more fruit. And I feel like, and I hope this doesn't come across as prideful in any way because I don't mean it this way. I just mean it that the Lord's worked this in a way that I couldn't do it. I worked in ministry for 10 years and the church was small and the ministry was small and the reach was small.
And then my wife passed away and it's like the floodgates opened. And every time that I felt this. overwhelming feeling of I want to run away, it felt like God would pick my hat up and go look around. You know, it was crazy. We had this little church that would hold 100 people and we were having three services and maxing out the place and all three of them.
And there'd be people are literally standing along the walls in church service because they want to come in here. And I'm having these feelings of like, I want to get in the car and just, you know, drive out west and leave everything behind. And I felt like God would say, no, look, look at what I'm doing in you. And he did. And again, I hope that doesn't sound prideful.
I don't mean it that way. I just mean that the Lord worked something in me and he brought something out that could not have been brought out. I worked with a widow for 10 years, and I didn't see it the same as I did after I lost my wife. And so he expanded my. He expanded my vision.
And, you know, it's almost like you can see a new color that there's something new there that you can see and you can help to relate.
So, yeah, ministry, the Lord has really opened up ministry in that way. And I think that he teaches you something, even if you're not in ministry, full-time ministry like me, I still think that there's so much to learn there. And our relationship is so much different. But even if there's a beauty in that, and certainly wouldn't wish anyone to go through widowhood. Excruciating, but I am saying that the Lord does take that really, really ugly thing.
And he brings something beautiful out of it. And that's what he's doing with us. I think that's a beautiful thing. And it makes me think about how sorrows multiply saints, right? And that's probably one reason, Justin, why the Lord has brought so many more people to your guys' church because now they see that you have kind of had to put your faith into action.
And so there's a waitingness behind what you say. In the minds and hearts of people that are witnessing your preaching and listening to that. They can listen knowing he's been through the fire, she's been through the fire, and they have still found him faithful. And so, I'm gonna listen, like that man, Justin, that came to your church. Is that the Lord?
Is opening the ears and eyes of these people to receive the gospel because you guys have been faithful to proclaim his light. through your wounds. Kelly, what are some of the ways that you that you live out your marriage. differently or maybe with more intentionality with after what you've been through. I think I put more of my focus on the Lord, like where before it would.
I would look to my husband to meet all my needs. And that puts a lot of pressure on a man to meet all the needs of an emotional woman. And I think that the first thing I do now is I go to the Lord. If I've got, you know. worries or Or anger, or anything.
I go to the Lord first, and I feel like it can give. it gives us a better marriage. Because I'm not putting that pressure on Justin to fulfill everything. I mean life is Very much reflective of that.
So often. And it's not that I didn't pray with my late wife, but I'll tell you, her being sick. Brought me to a new level of prayer, and then when she passed, you know, again, there was just. Sleepless nights, long times of sleepless nights that the Lord would use those times to draw me closer to himself. And so I think of a parliamentary life.
She looks different. And even, yeah, I remember when I first met Kelly, you know, she didn't want to pray. out loud in front of me and you know now Well that's because you've got these hearts pulling your hair out. Planning study just They leave you speechless. And I feel like I'm just a bumble-lined person over here.
Like, thank you, Laura, for today. I realize very quickly, you know, pray to the Lord. I'm not praying for you to heal me. I'm pouring my heart out before the Lord. We'll get in situations, we'll be in the car getting ready to walk in, waiting to go.
Go to a meeting with somebody here recently. We didn't know if it was going to go good or go bad. And we're, I parked the car and I'm grabbing my jacket and Kelly goes, Let's pray. And she taps my hand and she leads the prayer. And I just thought that was just a really sweet moment to, you know, in my mind, I remember thinking, you know, you didn't, when we first met, you wouldn't even pray before a meal.
And, you know, now she's, you know, reminding me that, hey, before we go in here for a potentially hard conversation, let's stop and pray about this. And so it changes things. I think we're convinced. Yeah, yeah, and the Lord draws you near in times of hardship, right? Yeah, and I so this morning, this morning when I was getting ready for this interview, I actually listened to the um listen to Pandora a lot, and one of my favorite artists is JJ Heller.
Do you guys have you guys heard her at all?
Okay, so she had a song, and I don't know if you guys have heard this one, but as I was listening to it today, it just reminded me of your guys' story, of your testimony. And so I wanted to read some of the lyrics of this real quick because it says, I'm going to skip a little bit of it, but it says: The waiting hands of winter catch us when we fall. Is it just me? I can't believe that the green of spring was ever here at all. You keep your promises.
I might not see it yet. You keep your promises. Everyone I care for, just like every perfect dream, withers, fades, and drifts away, feels like we're all falling with the leaves. You keep your promises. I might not see it yet.
You keep your promises. There is hope within the breaking of the heart of every seed, and I know you feel the aching at the end of all good things. I believe in restoration. I believe that you redeem because I know somehow the sycamore will bloom again in spring. And it just, as I was getting ready, I was like, oh my goodness, that just reminds me so much of you guys, what the Lord has done to bloom something new.
And the Lord sees every season and he cares about every season. And And he doesn't even ask you to abandon. One season for the next. He is this incredible, beautiful artist that can weave our sorrows into our triumphs, right? And turn it into this beautiful tapestry of praise for him, which is what I see in you guys.
I see you guys just. Glowing really with the love you have for not only one another, but for the Lord and for the fact that He was faithful to you guys in that dark winter, and that now He has brought about a new spring for you guys. And before we close, I wanted to tell our listeners that you guys not only do you guys have Instagram platforms and probably Facebook and all those things, but you did just start your own podcast. And so, if people want to kind of see what life is like, you know, day to day, especially people that are maybe new widows or widowers, or they're on that path, and they just kind of need to see that. There is Spring ahead.
There is new life to come. But you guys are very authentic. You guys are not going to sugarcoat the hard days either, which I think is just as important.
So, where can they find your new podcast? Platform, all of those, but Happy Chaos is the name of the podcast. And so that is exactly what you said. It is Kelly and I being transparent. The goal of that is to express the joy that the Lord brings.
That there is hope, there is Still, goodness in the Lord, and he is still faithful. And we were very open. I was super open, especially on online platforms with my grief when I was going through that. And that's what really started those Instagram platforms and Facebook platforms was all the grief that I was going through. But then it literally morphed in front of all of us as the Lord brought Kelly into my life and then brought me out of that place of grieving.
And so, Hypocrisy really is the redemptive side of that. It's, you know, the goal of it's not to be on all the grief, but it's just to be able to be a. As you said a moment ago, a lighthouse to those who are going through it to say, Hey, there is still hope, and uh, we're still here, and we're still breathing, and the Lord has us here. And Jesus said that He came that we might have life and we might have it more abundantly. And so, we're just trying to be a demonstration of that, and uh, and we're also trying to enjoy the time that we have with each other because we just enjoy doing it.
I just really want people to see the goodness of God because you can go through, in my opinion, the worst of the worst. And he is still so good. Yeah.
Nice to find us at Pastor Justin Walker. If you want to see those platforms just put together pastorjustinwalker.com, you can see everything put together and click on things there. But Spotify and Apple and Cool, and all the rest, you can find the happy cats podcast.
Well, I would definitely recommend that people go and listen. And as we close today's conversation, we're reminded that grief can feel like a long and bitter winter. It can be quiet and cold and unrelenting. And there are seasons when the world seems stripped bare, when joy feels dormant and life feels paused. And yet Scripture speaks a different word.
It says, For behold, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone, the flowers appear on the earth, the time of singing has come. Kelly and Justin's story is a beautiful picture of what some have called a second spring. not a return to what was, but a gracious God given renewal. a season where hope reemerges, joy takes root again, and life grows in ways we never expected. If you find yourself in a winter today, may this story remind you that the Lord is faithful to bring life from barren places.
And when spring comes, even a second one, it's no less real, no less good, and no less a gift of grace. Justin, would you do me a favor and pray for us today, especially praying for those people that are facing widowhood right now? Words, yes, let's pray. Father in heaven, we give you ourselves. We are so grateful that you've called us into your kingdom and that you've called us into your work and into your service.
So, thank you for this time on this podcast today. Father, I pray that you would bless. the message. Lord, you said that your word will not turn void, but it will accomplish the purpose for which it was sent.
So Father, we just trust today that you're going to send this message to those who need to hear it. We pray for those who are going through grieving. We know that you are near to the brokenhearted. Father, I pray that you would be good to your word and that you'd be faithful as you always are, that you would lift those out of the mirrory clay who need it, that you would be a shelter and a strong tower for those who are in the middle of the storm. Thank you, Father, for the ministry that you've put before us, and may we be faithful with it.
We want to be the servants that take the five talents and make them into ten. Lord, we want to be good with good stewards with what you've put in front of us, even right now.
So, I pray that you would give us wisdom as to how you move forward, both with hope in the morning and happy chaos, and all of the ministries you have us in the middle of. Father, we give ourselves to you and use us, Lord. We want to be your servants, we want to be submissive to what you want from us.
So, if you'll show us what you want next, Father, we want to take that step. We thank you so much for this time together today. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Amen.
Kelly and Justin, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Join us next week on Hope in the Morning. Hope in the Morning is a non-profit ministry that seeks to encourage the hurting.
equip those who walk beside them, and evangelize the lost with the hope of Jesus Christ. To partner with our ministry or to make a donation in your loved one's honor, please visit hopeinthemorning.org. Your donation helps keep these stories of hope on the air. and helps tangibly meet the needs of the herding.
