Rebuilding Trust in Your Marriage After Infidelity (Part 1 of 2)

I was tired and I was ready to walk away from our marriage. Abby's husband serves in the military, which means a lot of family moves and a huge strain on their relationship. But through our podcast, Abby found hope for her marriage.

I don't believe that we would be where we are today without focus. I'm Jim Daly. Working together, we can bring real hope to more marriages like Abby's. Give today at FocusOnTheFamily.com slash real families. Today on Focus on the Family, we'll hear about the heartbreak of walking away from your spouse. My marriage was just too hard. Life was too hard.

It wasn't worth it. I needed, I needed to start over. I needed something new.

I took the steps to pursue something new. I found a new relationship. I left Jill and my kids and I'm sorry. I left Jill and my kids believing that that new relationship was going to be the cure-all.

But the problem was I took somebody with me and that was me. Mark Savage describing a very dark, confusing period of his life as a Christian husband and father. And we're going to hear more of his remarkable story, how God stepped in to rescue their marriage. And stay tuned. This is a great program for you, although we are going to be talking about some things pretty candidly.

So if you have young kids within earshot, you might go to earbuds or have them move out of the room. Your host is Focus President and author Jim Daly. And I'm John Fuller. John, infidelity is a tragic, heartbreaking issue. That's what we're going to be talking about today. And the ramifications are so much more devastating than the culture realizes. Sure, there may be the initial rush of excitement and indulgence for that unfaithful spouse, but it's short-lived.

We all know that. And as Mark indicated in that tender comment, the ultimate consequence is nothing but pain and sorrow. Sadly, most marriages don't survive an affair because it's awfully hard to maintain a relationship of love and trust once that is broken. And today we're going to say there is hope.

There's good news. Research shows us that couples who are willing to work through betrayal and pain with godly forgiveness and hope can eventually rebuild that relationship. And in many cases, their marriage becomes even stronger than it was before because they're now so transparent.

They're naked in the garden once again. It's not an easy process, but we here at Focus on the Family want to encourage you, if you're in that spot or you know some body who is, this is going to be a powerful program. And certainly as we go along here, if we're touching a nerve, get in touch with us.

We have caring Christian counselors who can talk things through with you, and our number is 800, the letter A in the word family. Mark and Jill Savage have served in church ministry for about 20 years. They meet the needs of families through their speaking and writing, and they have five grown children and eight grandkids. And today our conversation centers around a small but very powerful book that Jill has written called Your Next Steps, What to Do When Your Spouse is Unfaithful.

And we do have copies of that here. The details are in the episode notes. Mark and Jill, welcome back to Focus. Yes. Thank you. So good to have you here again. This is a difficult subject, but for the radio listeners, podcasters can see this, but you have smiles on your faces. You have gotten through this painful moment. I'm mostly concerned about those that are just stepping into this or they have suspicions, and it may be around the corner for the listener, for the YouTube watch or whatever it might be.

So that's the person I have in mind right now. And it's difficult. This is a difficult topic.

It rips many marriages apart, like I said in the beginning. So I want to say thank you for your willingness to come and share it. You know, it's hard to always share maybe your greatest sin ever, right? But it's for God's testimony that you do it. I know that.

And the purpose of healing people, not hurting people. And for the listeners, I know if you're suspicious or you're, you know, your spouse has just told you something's up, it feels crushing. But I'm telling you, I guarantee this is going to be helpful to you today. So let's go back to the reveal when it was found out that Mark, you were having an affair. What was that day like? What happened? You know, it was a bit of a longer reveal, I would say because I knew that Mark wasn't in a good place emotionally.

But what was that intuition like what that woman's thing that you kind of sensed? Okay, he's not in a good place. He was discontent with life.

He was easily angered. He had struggled because he had left church ministry a year earlier. And it just seemed like there was my identity had really been in the title pastor. And I would have never have understood that.

And he would have said it wasn't right. But my identity was in Christ, not. So it was, I was just very confused and frustrated.

So that day came, what happened? So the first discovery was, when it was this relationship was just an emotional connection. And I discovered it on his phone. He had, we were out to dinner, and he had gone to the bathroom and left his phone on the table. And this person had actually texted him and I was like, What is this? And so we talked about it at that moment. I mean, we talked about the guardrails in our relationship. And we have an agreement that I don't text with a man without looping him in and, you know, and he kind of said, Yeah, it's no big deal.

You know, this is she's going through a hard time. And I was just having a conversation. So we talked about the fact that he needed to loop me in from that point on, which he did for maybe two weeks. And then it went underground. And then about four months later, I came home from a speaking engagement.

And Mark had fallen asleep with the phone in his hand in bed. And I thought, Oh, you know, bless his heart, he was so tired, and I picked it up, and went to plug it in, and saw what was on the screen and saw that they had actually been together the weekend before. And I knew that this wasn't just an emotional affair, it had become a physical affair.

What were your emotions like? I mean, I think we can all envision that. But I'd love for you to articulate that. I mean, it's betrayal and those things. But I mean, honestly, the my very first emotion, I wanted to throw up, like, physically, I became physically ill. And I, I was my mind was swirling, like, what do I even do with this?

I don't even know what to do with this. And I had a friend that knew that Mark was not in a good place. She knew that he hadn't been in a good place for a long time. And she had said to me, on several different occasions, my phone is on 24 hours a day. And I was like, Well, back, thank you so much, but I'm not gonna call you at the middle of the night. And she was like, I know, I'm just telling you, my phone's on 24 hours a day. And I'm gonna tell you what, it was 130 in the morning when I had picked that up out of his hand, because I'd been speaking in Chicago, and that's about a two hour drive home. So I'd driven home late, and I called my friend back. And I was so grateful. We cried on the phone, we prayed on the phone.

She stayed on the phone with me most of the night. And all this happening while Mark is in bed sleeping. Yeah, well, no, I know. That's a really important point.

Because a lot of things could have gone sideways right there, right? The fact that you pulled back called a friend. I think that's incredibly admirable. I mean, honestly, if you want to know the truth, I wanted to slap him. But well, I wanted to wake him up.

He is asleep, you could do a lot of damage. But But I mean, seriously, that's an amazing first step that you made, which says a lot about who you are, rather than going, you know, to the kitchen for an implement. I mean, seriously, I mean, you know, there's a lot of strange ways that people respond in this. Mark, let me bring it back to you for a minute, because there was this seesaw effect that occurred over the next few weeks or months, I'm not sure where you were, you know, telling Jill, yeah, they were done, it's off, and then it would rekindle.

Describe that. And even in that confusion, what was going on? Well, so the Christ Center part of me wanted to restore, get things figured out between Jill and I, but the flesh part of me, just had I was without hope. I we had wrestled for so many years, with our differences with trying to figure each of us out that I was worn out with all of that. And in my absolute discouragement, I would run home and say, I'm staying with you, I'm ending that, let's figure this out.

But then in my hopelessness, I'd run back to the relationship. And I did that eight times, seven or eight times. And then finally, I ended up finding an apartment and moving out. What was that length of time? Just so we get an idea of the eight times you were in and out of the relationship. So that would have been from October to May.

So, you know, the better part of well over six months. Yeah. So, Jill, I do want to ask you, because I know women right now, some may even be screaming, as they're hearing this, because they've gone through something and they're going, Jill, you should have just left him. And I think, really, I want to speak to the Christian community, because there is a difference. I mean, people that don't believe in Christ, they're not bound by those, you know, God given boundaries, those God given decrees to try to repair their marriage, I would hope that they would, because of the benefits that come from that.

But for the Christian community, particularly, Jill is even a Christian woman is saying, Jill, what are you thinking? Let him go. You may have even gotten some of that advice. I certainly did.

And speak to those two halves of the brain, you know what your logic side is telling you, and then what the Spirit is telling you. Yeah. I mean, definitely, I had people say that I had that thought in, you know, multiple times, like, at what point, because this wasn't the first issue that we had dealt with, there had been other things, there had been a background of pornography, and there had been other pieces.

And at some point, you know, you kind of go, I'm tired. Okay, I just want to be done with this. Well, I guess the point there is the church as well as the culture will legitimize that and say, right, you had every right. And, you know, the Bible does say, you have every right to get out of this.

Right. And but I did, I did not feel released from it. I didn't feel released from it. And I would ask God what to do. I begged God to tell me what to do. In fact, it was probably a day, maybe two days after I discovered the physical affair, that I can remember I was on my living room floor, I was home alone, just bawling my eyes out begging God to tell me what to do. And I heard one thing, one thing, I heard him say, I want you to love him. And I got off of the floor, and I looked at heaven, and I shook my fist at heaven. And I said, I don't know if you've noticed lately, but he's not real lovable right now. And I heard God whisper back to my heart. And sometimes you aren't either. Wow. And that was a moment that I was like, All right, Lord, you love me when I'm unlovable.

I don't know how to do that. You know, it's a beautiful, tender moment. It had I have tears in my eyes, because it's powerful. But it is exactly the spiritual illustration that God uses throughout the scripture to define his relationship with the church, right?

Oh, yeah, you're a harlot, you come and go, you aren't committed to me. And I mean, wow, there's nothing that we experienced in this life, closer, I think, to the heart of God, then our love for one another in marriage, and then the betrayal of that. And that's what God feels with his people. And that's why I think it's so powerful and it stings so much. But for him to put that in your heart, it was wow. And that really became, I mean, I learned how to love someone who wasn't loving me back. And that was a huge lesson. And where would you say that turning point? Maybe it was that, but that turning point back towards saving your marriage?

Where did it start? And what did it feel like? Yeah, I would say it was there. I was committed to doing whatever needed to be done. And at that point, I really began to look at myself even deeper. Because one of the things I realized is I didn't cause Mark to be unfaithful, but I contributed to the dysfunction in our marriage.

And I needed to figure that piece out. That's really hard for women to embrace. It's hard for any of us. Well, but I think particularly a woman that is faithful, but maybe there's something broken in the relationship or not as healthy as it could be. It may be physical intimacy. I don't know what it could be.

But it's hard to look at your own heart for that spec. But it is it is but I knew whether my marriage made it or not. I needed to know what I had brought dysfunctionally to the relationship. I mean, I really had that in my mind, like, I can't control him.

I can't control what he's going to do. I can only change what I bring to the table. And so that began the journey for me. And I had to look at my critical spirit.

I had a critical spirit, and it was robbing Mark of feeling connected to me. I had to look at the fact that I, I was very much a thinker. So we're opposite in the way most marriages are. Most marriages, the men are the thinker, the women are the feeler.

Okay, in our marriage, we're like in the other 2080. I'm the thinker. He's the feeler. And so I had to realize that my emotional strength, I would and I say strength carefully, was actually sending an unintentional message to my husband that I did not need him.

Or that he's inadequate. Spiritually. Yeah, if I could say it that way. Yeah. Yep. I know.

And I appreciate that. Mark, I do want to ask that same question of you. When did you think that tipping point? I mean, you're full of confusion at that point. I'm sorry to say, brother.

But I mean, really, eight times back and forth. I don't even know how you're finding your gyroscope in that, you know, where's your spiritual center? But obviously, you're here.

And that's the celebration and the gutsiness of being here. Something got you headed in the right direction. What was that thing? And what was that day about?

Well, I think it was a series of leadings by the Lord. One, I wanted to meet with Jill on a consistent basis, not to restore our marriage. I was very clear about that. And you're in an apartment at this point. You're not living together. You're separated. We're separated.

I want. So I let Jill know, hey, we have five kids, I want to, I want to do lunch every week. And he said, but I'm not willing to restore marriage. This is not to restore our marriage. It's because we have five children together. Yeah. So my friends were saying, don't go. My family was saying, don't go.

And I would pray and ask God and I sensed that I was to go. Lots of dynamics here in this relationship and in the story. And again, we're so grateful to Mark and Jill Savage for sharing so candidly. Let me just say real quick, Jill has written a book called Your Next Steps, What to Do When Your Spouse is Unfaithful.

It's a great little resource. And you can get your copy by checking the episode notes or call 800 the letter A and the word family. Mark, I'm coming back to you because I really want to know that turning point. And Jill, I appreciate the commentary on that from your heart.

But what, again, what was your compass? When did you say to yourself, maybe even before Jill, okay, this isn't about just the kids. It's about the potential of us getting back together because as Jill just described, you're not there. Right. And you're laying out the parameters.

Let's get together for lunch. This isn't about us reconciling. Yeah. It sounded like a business meeting. That's a good point.

Yeah. I had convinced myself of the thought that my kids would be okay. They would understand. And they didn't understand. And that continued to gnaw at me.

I came from a divorced family. And here I was headed down the same path. That continued to gnaw at me. But I carried this list of issues that I held against Jill.

And I just could not get past the list. This relationship, as I'm in this mess, this relationship that I was in was demanding more of me, more decisions. And all of a sudden, I'm in the same cesspool with this other relationship that I had with Jill. And I think my prayer leading up to Easter 2012 was, Lord, I do not know how to love Jill.

I have loved her based upon what I would get out of it. What the heck do I do? And then it was Easter morning. I was such a mess.

I didn't even realize it was Easter. We had been helping our daughter who had just had one of our second grandchild. Right. And we ended up home late that night. It was like 2am. And Jill asked if I wanted to stay the night because it was so late. And so I did. And then I think that next morning, Jill probably thought that I had completely lost it. I was totally schizophrenic. I woke her up and I said, Jilly, I just want you to know I'm going to file for divorce this week.

The list is too great. And I just don't have the energy. I don't want to do what I need to do to rebuild this marriage. And then Jill said, or she reminded me, I said, You know, it's, it's Easter, Mark. And Jesus Christ didn't want to go to the cross either. He asked God to take it from him. You know, when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane, he said, Take this from me. And then he said, But not my will, but yours be done. And that's all I said.

Right. And in a weird way, I've been praying or thinking, I really want Easter to be different this year. I wanted it to be different than candy and rabbits, which we never celebrated Easter that way. But all of a sudden, I had the realization that it was Easter. And I was desperate. I, I had made a complete mess. I was overwhelmed with all of it. But I was a desperate man. And I heard Father God whisper to me that if I would trust him with the list, he would take care of the rest. Yeah. And it was in that moment that I actually went from Jill, I want a divorce to, Oh, my gosh, you're right.

It's Easter. And I modified Jesus prayer, not take this marriage from me, but Lord, I'll do whatever you want, your will be done, not mine. And I had a total pivot in my direction. All of a sudden, I had clarity.

Yeah. And you know, Mark, what's really revealing there. And I think this is so true. And I mentioned a moment ago, Jill, with your heart, you know, women tend to look at, okay, what did I do wrong and men do what you did? Hey, the list is too long.

You have blown it. It's our ego. I think just that male ego.

Hey, this problem is you. Yeah. You know, until we get that list figured out, I'm out of here.

Right. I mean, and guys, you're hearing it right from Mark. That's exactly the opposite of what God wants us to look at ourselves. That log, I said spec earlier, but that log in ourselves, our own eye to look at our own list. And did you feel that, that finger in a good way, coming back at you? Listen, there may be that list, but that's tomorrow's news, buddy.

Today's news is your list. I, I found myself so overwhelmed with all of it, that what I felt was God, like a dad, a tender dad reaching down to his toddler son who had fallen into this mud pit and helping him out. And I needed it. I didn't have, I had two men in my life who were my dad and they were unhealthy. I didn't have a good view of God. And all of a sudden the real daddy God was reaching down and saying, Mark, I'm going to help you out of this mess.

And in my desperation, I said, please, I'm with you. Mark. I think this may be the question for the men listening.

Yeah. How do you recognize that? How do you know the father's talking to you? How, I mean, cause you're in a mess, right? Maybe that guy listening is in that mess and he doesn't know up from down. He doesn't know right from wrong. And to be able to open your heart up and say, dad, I need to hear from you.

Right. I mean, how do you get there if you're stuck and you're not hearing clearly? I know that's a really tough question. Well, my first thought is when you're in such a mess and you have a healthy thought, it's probably not from you. It's probably the Lord. And in that moment of desperation, because I was so bound by the list, I just knew it was the Lord saying, Mark, give me the list.

Trust me with the list and I'll take care of the rest. And he did by the end of the day. Well, for one, I had attended church for a while. I looked to Jill and after I voiced that prayer and I said, can I go to church with you? And yeah, it was pretty, I was like, yeah. And I had watched. That was an obvious change in his. Well, I watched the change.

That's great. In front of my eyes. I mean, sometimes people will say, how could you begin to rebuild trust again? But when you've actually seen someone throw up the white flag of surrender.

Yeah. And actually do it in front of you, which I was so grateful I got to witness that. Now, I didn't trust, I didn't trust him. And remember, this is the guy that's gone back and forth seven times at this point in time. So, but at the same time, I'd never seen what just happened. But what's interesting, what you're describing is you had hope, hope was being rekindled, maybe not trust, but you had hope that's critical.

Yes, that's like the first step to getting there. And wow, you guys, this has been so good. I this has got to go another day if you're willing to stay with us, because I do want to come back and you've done such a beautiful job laying out your circumstances.

And of course, not everybody's circumstances are the same. We get that. But I want to come back next time and kind of broaden this to the general audience to talk about the blame ratio, the mismatched emotions, what you write about in the booklet, Jill, obsessiveness triggers lifetime recovery. Let's come back and extend those ideas, those thoughts of hope. Let's not go for trust yet. Let's just get people hopeful and checking their own heart. Can we do that? Yeah, absolutely.

That'd be so good. And I just want to reiterate to the listeners to the viewers that if you're in that spot, or you're suspecting that your spouse may be unfaithful, call us. It's free. We have donors that have made it possible for us to have caring Christian counselors. That's why we're here. Yes, we're going to do this in a Christian loving way. That's all we know. We are Christ followers.

So we're not going to give you worldly responses. We're going to give you biblical responses to what God expects of you. And if you're willing to follow God in that way, we're willing to give you the truth. And we really do want to hear from you today.

Our number is 800, the letter A and the word family, 800-232-6459, or click the link in the episode show notes. And when people get in touch, Jim, we can tell them about Hope Restored, which is a terrific program in which we offer marriage counseling over several days. And we've seen transformations and miracles take place through that program. So when you get in touch, ask us more about Hope Restored. John, let me amplify that for a moment.

This is an incredible program. Most of the people that attend our Hope Restored intensive program, they've already signed divorce papers, or they're about to sign them. And they're saying, okay, we agreed this will be the last thing that we try. And we go back to these couples two years later, and praise God, 80% of those couples are together and doing better. I think it's one of the best things in the country to repair the damage in your marriage. So give it a try.

Yeah. And in fact, you might know a couple that went to Hope Restored, and she said, if I don't hear from God this week, I'm gone. She heard from God, and it's been months, and they're together, and they have hope again. So our number again, if you want to hear more about Hope Restored, or if we can send Jill's booklet to you, Your Next Steps, What to Do When Your Spouse is Unfaithful, 800, the letter A, and the word family. And we're listener supported, as Jim mentioned. Donors make it possible for us to provide these counseling services to you. If you're not part of the support team today, please consider a generous gift, either a monthly pledge or a one-time gift. Either way, we'll say thank you by sending this booklet to you. On behalf of Jim Daley and the entire team here, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. Plan to be with us tomorrow as we continue the conversation with Mark and Jill, and once again, help you and your family thrive in Christ. When a woman discovers her husband's struggle with pornography, she needs a practical plan. The latest book from Focus on the Family, Aftershock, by professional counselor Joanne Condie, will help you through the seven steps of self-care, and you'll learn how to deal with the emotions involved in the discovery of your husband's addiction. Let Joanne Condie's timeless wisdom give you hope even while you're in your own season of Aftershock. Learn more about Aftershock at focusonthefamily.com slash store.