Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup. But when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So, I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor, wherever you get your podcasts. But I want you to consider something. Would you consider reading the Bible? I said, Bob, I went and bought one. I'm reading 70 pages a night, whiskey in one hand, Bible in the other.
I'm not getting a thing from this thing. I'm not getting anything. That's Tim Bush, and he and his wife Kathy are with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, sharing their incredible marriage story. I'm John Fuller. John, occasionally we hear some marriage stories that are amazing.
I'd say miraculous. And today we're going to hear that from this couple that will share a lot of. The trench warfare spiritually that they were in, the generational curses that plague them. And I am, my jaws are open. I'm just kind of shocked they made it.
And so, this is the kind of show you want to kick back, get that cup of coffee or a hot cup of tea and just listen to this story. I think you're going to be amazed that. God actually was able to work through their hearts and Create a miracle in their relationship. Yeah, and Tim and Kathy have been married for over 40 years. They have three grown children and eight grandchildren, and they're speakers and serve with the Family Life team.
They've got a powerful book. As you said, Jim, it's an incredible story. The book is called Sex on the First Date: a story of a broken beginning to a radically transformed marriage. And we've got details about our guests and this terrific resource, this book, online. And the link is in the show notes.
Tim and Kathy, welcome to Focus on the Family. Nothing like being headlined with this is a crazy marriage story that God reached down and found a way in his sovereignty to save. Kathy, let's start with you. Going back, I mean, you do have this powerful story. What were some of the unhealthy habits that were going on early in your marriage?
Well, yes, it was a crazy marriage.
So going back, the unhealthy well, starting at the very beginning, you know, Tim and I got married because I was pregnant.
Okay. And uh thus the title of the book. Uh Sex on the First Day. Didn't get pregnant on the first date.
Okay. Got pregnant shortly after that. And Tim and I had actually talked about getting married. Um but once I got pregnant My parents were like, it looks like we're gonna move the date up. And we're, you know, I was actually a senior in high school.
But I really felt like for me, I was looking for a husband at this point. I wasn't my future was going to be, I was going to get married.
So when I got pregnant and I could drop out of school, it gave me a good excuse because I did not like school at all.
So we moved into the marriage really fast and We didn't know each other. We didn't do any kind of premarriage. the marriage was pretty much based off of How I thought Tim was going to make me feel. I was marrying him because I knew he could provide for me and I felt like he was going to take care of me.
So I basically just went from being in my home with my parents to moving to being with Tim. Into another situation of a of a man taking care of me. Tim, let me turn your direction. One of the major turning points in your marriage was when you came to a breaking point. Describe the breaking point, what was happening, and at what year of marriage did this breaking point occur?
Well, the breaking point in our marriage was Uh, I'm gonna, there's a between between 25 and 27 years, it was a long breaking point. Uh, but in 2005, my pop passed away, and there, and I never really grieved over it. I was a tough guy, and he told me to be tough. You know, don't grieve, people need to depend on you. And you need to be a rock for everybody.
And your pap was your grandfather. Grandpa. Yeah, he's the one who raised you. He's the one that gave me his last name. They adopted me and raised me as their own from the time I was 12, and really even before that, but mostly in those teen years.
Taught me how to work and taught me that's what women were attracted to for success. And so I worked towards that. But I can tell you the breaking point for me when Pop died and then a couple of years later, my brother got brain cancer, stage four glutoblastinoma in 2008. Was when he was diagnosed. And then that fall.
Uh our nephew uh passed away. And it was really hard in our family. He was only 22. And also that fall business was getting bad because the economy changed. And I was building at that point what I would call my own kingdom here on earth.
And building, my goal was 100 buildings in 10 years, and I was going to do this no matter what, and carry it all on my shoulders without even talking to God about it. I didn't know God. And uh things started to crash down that fall.
So I was uh I was depressed, I was uh filled with anxiety, couldn't sleep, couldn't think right. And ultimately, then my brother passed away in February of 2009 at 43 years old. And everything I could do to try to. s save him, but I couldn't do it. And and uh I tried though, but I started to fall apart and even talked about suicide.
I was to the point where I was at the end of myself and and didn't know what to do. At this point, um I'm drinking a fifth of alcohol a day just to cope. Just to cope with it, and taking Xanax. And other drugs too. Just everything, just to get through the day.
I couldn't work. At this point, I'm not working at all. And we have lots of employees, lots of things going on. And uh I literally thought that I was going to die. And so that was but the breaking point didn't quite happen just then, but it was pretty close.
And I was going to a counselor then too. Jake was really trying to help me through all this. And he thought it was from abuse from my brother's dad. That he abused me when I was younger and beat me, put me in the hospital a couple times. And he thought it was that.
So he told me that I should go to Costco and get one of those big boxes for toilet paper that he used to make, not the plastic, and tape it all up with duct tape and then write his name on it, get a baseball bat, and beat that box until I felt better. And I did. I did that. And it did make me feel better about. About my brother's dad, yeah, and ultimately I did end up forgiving him on my day my brother died, right in front of my brother.
Wow, but I wasn't a Christian yet. Yeah, I was gonna ask, where's the Lord and all that? I just felt like I needed to do it while my brother was still alive, and he died about an hour later. My brother did, and his dad was on the other side of me when this happened. Um, but I can tell you, um.
My counselor said, You're not telling me everything. And I said, Well, what do you mean? He says, Well, if you're still having anxiety, all these things are going on, there's things that you're not telling me. And then I told him about my serial infidelity. over the years and the things I'd not told Kath.
And he said, Well, you're going to need to tell her. And I said, Well, if I tell her, I'm going to lose her. He goes, Well, if you don't tell her, you're going to lose yourself. That's where you're at right now. God's having his way with you.
He's brought you to your knees. And he told me a scripture, and I basically said, if you don't, Let this out, you're going to die. Yeah. And you're in that spot. I mean, this is painting a really amazing picture.
Kathy, I want to come back to you. You described the desire to find yourself in the midst of all this, and you've got all this difficulty going on with your marriage. I guess it's a two-part question. First, what kept you in at this point? I mean, maybe then you can describe when.
Tim shared that infidelity with you and your response to that. But What kept you your head in the game? I mean, you're not committed to the Lord in a deeper way. it sounded like kind of a superficial understanding of scripture and stuff. Yeah, I definitely didn't really have any understanding of scripture.
I was not in God's word and only heard it from what I heard in church. But really, what kept me in, it was kind of an on and off thing. And we tell people when they ask us that question: why did you not get a divorce? And my answer to that is: there wasn't one day in those 27 years that we both wanted a divorce. Yeah, you said that very carefully.
Yeah. So people need to understand. It wasn't that you never said what about divorce. You just never said it on the same day. We never said it on the same day.
And so there was always one of us that was willing to fight for the marriage. And I look back at that and I hear. People say, well, if you're not both gonna commit, you're not gonna both fight, it's not gonna work. And I don't believe that. I believe if there's one of you, I believe eventually, yes.
You can't make it work if you're never both going to commit. And God did that for us. But I believe that Tim wanted marriage so bad because he had experienced divorce so many times. My mom married nine times, my dad five.
So that was an incredible thing for me.
Well, then my grandparents, too, at age 18, they got a divorce after 37 years of marriage.
So I didn't really see any what I would call stable marriages.
So he continually said to me, I'm not going to do that to our kids. I'm not going to drag them through a divorce. I don't, you know, he knew what that felt like. I had no idea. My parents were long time married.
My thought was: this isn't a good situation for our kids to be seen. I was kind of looking at it that way. And I didn't know what divorce was.
So I was the one that was throwing divorce out there a lot more. And I was told from people, you need to find yourself. And what does that even mean? Because we're really supposed to lose ourselves and find Christ. It's not about the search was on.
No, and that's real. I mean, and I appreciate that. And there's people listening that don't have a deep commitment with the Lord and they're trying to find themselves. Just friends of theirs have said, try to find yourself.
So this is part of your testimony. And how long did that journey of finding yourself last? And in the end, you went to a cul-de-sac called Jesus Christ Lane, and there was no way out.
So, what happened there?
Well, that lasted the 27 years before we found Christ. And it wasn't only, you know, we filled. that hole with drugs and alcohol and infidelity. But also I was filling it. I would go to college and take college classes.
I would go to self-help seminars. You know, it was just that constant search. And then after Christ took us to our knees, which He basically did Tim, which brought me. Um It's like the search was over. We found our purpose.
Yeah, that's good. And I'm going to come out of the break and we'll get more about that finding of Christ. Yeah, this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guests are Tim and Kathy Bush, sharing a little bit of their story, which is captured in more detail in the book Sex on the First Date: A Story of a Broken Beginning to a Radically Transformed Marriage. Incredible read. Get a copy from us here at the ministry.
We've got the link in the show notes. You know, the thing that's fascinating is the way the Lord's working in both your hearts prior to your commitment to Him. There's obviously a stirring going on. The Lord is. Like reeling you in, which is what he does.
You know, the best thing you can do if you don't have a relationship with Christ is say, Lord, just. Show me yourself, and God will do that. It sounds like you guys are in that spot, just to kind of give it some framework again. I mean, you're drinking heavily. Your business is crumbling.
You're concerned about the kids and the marriage, which is Super broken. but you're willing to stick With it and find answers. Where does God show up more prominently for both of you, and how did that happen, and when did it happen?
Well, that was a process. When we were in Mexico, I was served on a board. And there's a bunch of people on that board. And a friend of mine, who I was trying to get more drugs, because my doctor wasn't going to give me any more Xanax. I said I need Xanax.
And he even talks about this. There's videos in our book, and he even talks about this when I came to him. And he said, You know, Tim, he said, um I'll get you the drugs. No problem. But I want you to consider something.
Would you consider reading the Bible? I said, Bob, I went and bought one. I'm reading 70 pages a night, whiskey in one hand, Bible in the other. I'm not getting a thing from this thing. I'm not getting anything.
Well, he was your drug dealer, so this is all kind of odd.
Well, he was doing that as a friend because you could get it in Mexico. You could literally get it over the counter in Mexico.
So he said, you know. When I got really down and out, I started reading the Proverbs. And I and I tried I read one every day, and I didn't know if the Proverbs was in the Bible, what it was even talking about. And he said, just you know, there's thirty-one of them. And I would consider reading doing that and seeing if that would work.
And so, you know what? I'll think about it because no one's going to tell me what to do. And so we leave Mexico, which I was a mess in Mexico. And what year is this now? This was early 2009, right after my brother died, because I thought things would be better once he died.
And they didn't. I mean, the pressure was spiraling. Oh, yeah. It was just bad. We got on the airplane, for example, and I want to kind of seize this moment.
We had a first-class seat. And as soon as they closed the door, I started sweating. Shaking. completely freaking out to where I was so claustrophobic where even my socks on my feet Made me feel claustrophobic. Think about that.
I couldn't tie shoes. I couldn't have my shoes tied because I would itch or whatever. It just really messed me up. And so I'd start drinking right away. And the flight attendants would give it to me because I was a mess.
Well, we got off that plane, and then when we went to Bob, and our kids were with us too. Um I mean I was so O C D or whatever you want to call it, where I needed some lip stuff for my lips. We went to five stores to find lip stuff. Lip balm? Yeah, lip balm, just because my lips were chopped.
And I and I wasn't gonna stop until I found the kind I wanted. And so I just kept, that's how bad I was. And so when we left, yeah, exactly.
So when we left Mexico. got home and I said to Kath, I said, you know, Bob mentioned that You know, maybe I should read the Bible and read a Proverb a day. Would you read it with me? And it was a moment there, I don't want to take this away from Kath. Because you don't.
Yeah. Okay, you said it. Because I remember this moment when he asked me to read the Bible with him. And there was just something in me that was like, when I think back to it, that was like the sexiest thing Tim had ever done. Like, I felt like for the first time in our marriage.
He was doing something that was right, leading me in the right way. And I think I was just craving that because, you know, I think because of my upbringing, there would be times when I would get a Bible and I would say, I'm going to start reading the Bible. And I would start, I usually do this in January. I'd start reading the Bible in Genesis and got about halfway through and never went any further. And I even have a Bible that my mom gave me, and I opened it years later, and she wrote in there to my spiritual daughter.
And she saw something in me, but. When he asked me, it was just, I was craving that. I was craving for. my husband to to do something godly with me and I didn't even know that.
So it was an amazing time for us. And we started that day. We started with chapter one of Proverbs. And we found out who wrote them and all that stuff. We were blown away by Proverbs.
And it made so much sense. We would look at each other like, wow, that like that's in the Bible. That makes sense. Like, we've never read this before. And when I was a kid growing up, I remember my grand, she had this family Bible.
It was a big one. It's 1936. We still have it now. It was called the Family Bible. And I went to grab it one time.
She goes, oh no, we don't touch that. I only opened it up to write marriages and deaths and stuff like that.
So I never, Bibles were just something you didn't touch, is what I thought. And so we're actually reading God's Word. And I went through a thing where I was trying to lose weight. and and the thing I was doing was called Abvocare. And we uh it was a 30-day cleanse.
So no drinking during those 30 days.
So all of a sudden I'm not drinking at all for 30 days. We're reading the Bible and I'm starting to get better. And then things started to spin a little different. I had a good friend, which I think that's where we're going to go anyway. I remember his name is Bill Voris.
He was a pastor. that walked my brother through his death in hospice. He was there every day. And so I really liked this guy, and he reminded me of my pop. Same, he was 140 pounds, 5'7.
They looked alike. There was a lot of similarities there. Only this guy had a relationship with the Lord, and my pop didn't. And so Bill asked me, he said, Hey, Tim, I want you to go to grief counseling. You need to do this.
And I said, Well, tell me about that. And he said, Well, I have a group starting. You lost me a group. I'm not going to do any group thing. And he said, Well, what if we did it one-on-one?
So I said, sure, I'll do that. And so we started, and after a few times, Bill said to me, I'm going to close the door this time. Your your claustrophobia and anxiety seems better. I need you to really hear me. And so he closes the door and he said, Tim, I could lose my job.
I've been a pastor for 40 years. I've never had this conversation with another man. and it's really important I want you to hear it. He said, Tim, The Lord's got a calling on your life. It is a big calling.
And it's not here. You need to go find yourself a Jesus-loving, Bible-teaching church and figure out what that calling is. Wow. And he was working at the church you guys were going to. He was the associate pastor on.
And he was saying, you got to get to a different church. Yeah. He was at this Lutheran church. Yeah. He was an interim pastor at this church.
And then I now I didn't I had too much pride to say I knew what a c didn't know what a calling was.
So I went home to the girl. That was raised in the church. I went home to Calvin, I said, Hey, Bill said this. And what do you think? What's a calling, by the way?
She goes, Well, I don't know either. We'll find out. Right now, I mean, I said it sounds good. The freshness of it. And I even said, I thought every church was a Jesus-loving.
Bible teaching church. I just thought that. I assumed when we went to church and we sat down in that church, everybody was going to be in heaven with us. When we all died, we were all going to heaven. I didn't, we just didn't understand.
We didn't understand.
So, but it was exciting. It was like, let's go find a calling. Let's go find our calling.
Well, we need to tie that in a bow. I'm assuming you found a good church then.
Well, we started searching, and then ultimately, we did find a church. And it was kind of funny how we found it. Our niece had been going there, and she said, Why don't you go?
So we decided to go there. And it was actually in a casino.
Well, it used to be a casino. But that's where the church was.
So it didn't matter that it wasn't in a big building. We go on this deal. And so we're going and they start talking about this Christmas concert they're going to have. And you guys, this is just phenomenal how God works in this because I look back at that. The Christmas concert, they wanted people to set up and tear down and serve.
And I said, Well, I'm not going to do that, but we'll pay extra money for the tickets. We'll help that way. We'll pay for the service. And we'll go. Yeah.
And so we go.
So on December 21st of 2009, we go through this whole. Concert. And I'm listening to the music, and they're playing, and it's just a really cool concert.
Well, then, all of a sudden, uh, At the very end they play this song called The Lighthouse, which I've never heard before. And I literally feel something happen inside me like Something came inside me, and I know now it was the Holy Spirit. And I reached down the cath with tears in my eyes. I said, Babe, our lives are going to change forever. And We're going to go to this church and we're going to serve here, and this and things are going to change.
I want you to know that. This is on December 21st of 2009. Still makes me emotional to talk about it. No, I can see that and the power of that. That is a changed life.
You know, so many people wonder, Am I a Christian? I made a commitment, I got baptized. And somebody once gave me great insight. It was a pastor in San Diego. I used to go to their church before I was married.
He said, Evidence of the Holy Spirit is a changed life, is a changed heart. If you're wondering, Am I a believer, are you moving in a positive direction toward the Lord and His character? That's a changed heart where you're not lost in the fog and you're making steps toward Him. And that's a beautiful expression of that.
Well, a cool backstory to that, and this is probably pretty cool because we didn't know this when we were writing the book, but when we did the videos for the book, Mel was in one of the videos, one of the QR code videos. And Mel was doing the video, and he said, Tim, I want you to know that song was not even one of the charts we were going to do that night. Oh, man. And And he said, in fact, We had people chanting Lighthouse, Lighthouse, Lighthouse. And He went back to the music director, Mark Levane, and said, Hey, can you do this song, The Lighthouse?
He goes, Sure. Because it was not planned, so that's the last song they did, and that's and I would never heard it before.
So it's kind of interesting how God can work that way too. Absolutely. He does. He's creating a tapestry in everybody's life. We don't know how that works and how he manages all that, but this is what he does.
And a person who may not be perfect. Nobody's perfect. We're all sinners saved by grace, but somehow he steers us. Toward him, and it's a beautiful thing.
Well, I was never even attracted to worship music at all of any kind. I mean, my kind of music was definitely not worship music, right? Orthanthi, or you know, band music. And so, I actually thought worship music was kind of weak. I love it now, but that's that's why that song, how could that song even be something that would grab me like it did?
But the Lord just reached right into it. You talk about stakes in the ground in your marriage, describe stakes in the ground. What does it mean?
Well, we did that later in the book after we had come to the Lord and started to do things different. We realized we needed to do some radically transformed things in our marriage, not just for us, but for next generation and people to see that there was a change. And so, we had to make some what I would call non-negotiables in our marriage, and we had to agree on it too. And so, we made eight stakes in the ground. There's a ninth one out that's not in the book regarding the Sabbath, but we did these things realizing that we have to frame it up to where it's easy.
and people can make their own stakes. or they can use ours, but no stakes in the ground. for your marriage and your life. I don't know who you're modeling to, but that's not good. You got to have some kind of something going on.
Kathy, let me ask you guys one of those stakes I think was about the boundaries you need to put in your life. We talked a bit about Tim's infidelity, but you were also in that same space. And that became one of the stakes for you, correct? Right, right. Boundaries are so important.
And I think even if you haven't dealt with infidelity in your marriage, boundaries are important. God puts boundaries for us. You have to have healthy boundaries in your marriage. And for Tim and I, we don't meet with the opposite sex. We don't do coffee or lunches with the opposite sex alone.
You know, we our computers, our phones are completely open. We have, you know, the things that we did to each other, it's amazing to think about the power of God because. The things that we went through and that we did to each other. when I think about the person I trust the most is Tim. Is my husband, and that's only because I agree with that, me too.
Yeah, it's that, and that's only because of what Christ did in our marriage.
Well, and there's more to the story. I mean, we haven't delved in, we're kind of giving it in pieces, and I want to continue next time. But that, that right there, I want to punch that a little bit because what we've seen with Hope Restored, which is a four-day intensive that we do, probably the number one issue that couples come into Hope Restored with is infidelity. It's certainly near the top. And in that context, if a couple can actually survive that, and get to the root sources of all of that.
They seem to have a a beautifully transparent marriage and trust that is built. It it's almost as if it goes either way. It's either ruined by that or it's incredibly deeper because you know one another Kind of to the core. Right. And you still trust and love each other.
That's what's so good. For our listeners who feel stuck and alone in your marriage, please let us be there for you. Don't be embarrassed. It happens and it happens often.
So it's not going to be a surprise to us. Our Hope Restored program is built to help people in that circumstance, just like you may be in right now. Couples who participate in that intensive, that marriage intensive, have an 80% success rate of remaining married two years later when we go back and assess everybody and how they're doing. We had one couple tell us this: We're forever changed and tremendously grateful for the tools given to us to change our stormy relationship into a peaceful calm. What a gift God gave us here in a safe environment with counselors and staff that are totally walking in a close relationship with Christ.
Miracles happen. And what a testimony. If you have a desire to see your marriage transformed, I want to encourage you to check out our Hope Restored Marriage Intensive. You'll find all about Hope Restored when you call us at 800, the letter A and the word family. That's 800-232-6459.
Or look for details in the show notes. And if you were inspired by the conversation today, you can read more about Tim and Kathy's radical marriage journey in their book, Sex on the First Date. When you make a gift of any amount to the ministry, a focus on the family, we'll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you for supporting us. We are a nonprofit ministry, so your donations are what fund our programs, like Hope Restored, and so much more.
So, if you want to help more couples find healing and have a generational impact, just like Tim and Kathy, become a ministry partner today. Every dollar you give will go right back into saving marriages, protecting pre-born children, helping parents navigate raising Christ-like children in the chaos of this culture. Yeah, donate today and get your copy of Tim and Kathy's book, Sex on the First Date. A story of a broken beginning to a radically transformed marriage when you call 800, the letter A and the word family. Again, 800-232-6459.
or look for the link in the show notes. Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we continue the conversation with Tim and Kathy Bush and once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Sprinkle some love into your marriage this month with the Loving Well podcast from Focus on the Family. I'm Aaron Smalley, and I host the podcast with my husband, Dr.
Greg Smalley, and our good friend, John Fuller. We chat about how to put Christ at the center of your relationship, deepen your love, and have a marriage that truly thrives. Listen today at focusonthefamily.com/slash lovingwell or wherever you get your podcasts.
