David and Meg Robbins: How to Handle Conflict without Tearing Your Hair Out

So if there's a message that I love giving at The Weeknd, remember, it is which one?

The Gospel Holy Spirit. Bing, bing, bing, bing. Is that it? Yeah.

That's no fun, though. You got it right on the first guess. Yeah, so we've been married a long time. And we've been speaking at that conference for a long time. 30-plus years.

33. And I said, every time, wherever we are, The Whole Weeknd is built around this one talk. If we don't understand this when we leave this conference, this conference will not sustain your marriage. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.

And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com or on our Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. So if you have a married couple in front of you, they're newly married, and you're— I have one right now.

They're sitting in the studio. But if, like, you would say that's what you're going to talk to them about, the power of the Holy Spirit in your marriage. No question.

You can talk about all the great marriage tools, conflicts, intimacy, you name it, roles. We all know this. If you walk out of there without the power of the Holy Spirit working in your life, none of it matters. And so as a listener, you should be leaning in thinking, wow, of all these things you've been teaching for 33 years because we're old, this is it? And most people— Did you have to throw in there that we're old? Yeah, we are. We've been doing it a long time. But, like, think about that. Well, we've got a young couple in the studio with us today. Wow, you're making us feel good.

And you're cool, too. You probably already recognize their voices. David and Meg Robbins are back, the president of Family Life, in how many years? 21 years?

Been married? 20. 20, see? Yeah.

We still got to figure out a way to celebrate 20 because COVID, you know, kind of took it out. Oh, did it really? That's all right. We'll get there. That's okay. That's right.

You will. So as you're listening to us talk about the power of the Holy Spirit, and I know you're speaking at The Weekend Remembers, and that's one of the talks of the weekend, is that your most favorite and most important? I think it's our favorite because of our story. It's because of 24 years being together, four of those dating, 20 of those married, and constantly coming to the end of ourselves. And it's a young couple, the most important thing. It's a couple 20 years in, the most important thing.

And 40 years in, the most important thing. You know, God in His kindness says in John 16, you know, Jesus is the one who said it while He was on this earth. He said, it is good for me to go away because I'm going to send to you a Helper, the Holy Spirit, who's going to show you things that you're currently not ready to hear. You guys, I always think about that. Think about Jesus walking with His disciples and He says, it's better that I go.

I'd be thinking, no, please. And even for our marriages, like, no, Jesus, I need you right here in the midst of everything. And He says, no, because the Holy Spirit, I'm going to send the Holy Spirit.

And yet we don't tap into that power source. Exactly. I mean, He is the one. He promises He will help us follow wherever God is leading us to go. He will move us to go that direction. He will let us see sin in our lives. And I don't know about you, but it's not very helpful if I'm always just pointing the finger at next sin. Like, I need to see my own sin first. I thought our spouse was.

Log in my eye. That was their role to help us see our sin. I'm working for you, Dave. You know, it helps us forgive sin and others, especially our spouse. And the Holy Spirit helps us do the right thing in the right way. I mean, it's obedience. And a lot of times we experience fruit when we step into the things He's leading us into. And don't you feel like when you're standing on that podium at the weekend, remember teaching this truth. Don't you feel like the couples are looking at you and I think they're looking at you like, yeah, this is good, but can you get back to how do I resolve conflict or how do I? And you just know if they do not appropriate the power and understanding of the Holy Spirit, they actually have no chance of transformation. They can wish it.

It might work for a week, but it won't last, right? It's so true because as much as I would love to think that I'm growing and sin is getting less in my life, I'm still human, still living on earth. I still have sin.

You know, I'm still going to struggle and do the things that I don't want to do. Paul talks about that, you know. And in marriage, I think that's where we experience our desperate need for the Holy Spirit the most because unfortunately, the people that I love the most and spend the most time with see that ugly side of me come out. You know, I know that God tells us let no corrupting talk come out of your mouth, but I don't always want to speak kindly. Sometimes my anger is taking over and I'm saying things that I wish I didn't say or do not repay evil for evil, but on the contrary, bless. I'm like, I'm not always doing that. Let's be honest. I mean, there are many times where David is like, oh yeah, I'll be home. Let's try to all eat dinner together before our daughter heads off to volleyball.

I'll be there at six. This didn't go into a good place, guys, but this is real. This is real.

This may have happened recently. You know, and he gets out the door a lot later than he plans to and he comes in late. And I'm tempted to feel like, okay, have fun cleaning up and getting everybody to bed. I did my part and I did overtime.

You're in charge now. And I'm seething and frustrated. Because you want to pay back in your flesh. Yes, because my desire is now it's your turn to feel what I felt. And I'm just going, but aren't you glad you're married to an optimist? You know, like I'm always so optimistic about how things are coming together and how quickly I'll get out the door. Isn't that a great thing? No, not so much. I don't think she's feeling that.

And it's not that when we talk about like being filled with the Holy Spirit, it's not that it excuses and does away with. Certainly there's still conflict there that we need to talk out. But in that moment, how am I going to respond? So what did you do? Because it sounds like this was pretty recent.

Yes, this was really recent. I'm sure that when you first got home, there were probably some ugly looks and some passive aggressive comments. Did you give him the stink eye? The stink eye. The bad stink eye.

I'm getting that. But you know, I mean, and quickly, certainly I know the Lord is trying to convict me and my pride is taking over and I don't want to yield in that moment. I'm like, no, I worked really hard to cook this dinner and he did not get here when he said he would, you know, but I'm playing all this internal in my head. And at some point, confession, it definitely took longer than it should have. I could have responded to the Holy Spirit sooner for sure. And there would have been less ugly words flying probably. But at some point I just had to say, OK, to the Lord, I am now in sin also. Like my response here is ugly.

What's interesting about this most recent scenario, too, is that I actually wasn't picking up on it. So she was seething in some healthy ways. I thought my daggers from my lips were getting there, but they weren't. But I'm like, there were reasons why I had to stay late. They were out of my control. I didn't communicate well, but I was just, whew, I made it home. Let's go, guys. You know, how do I become Disney dad and make all this better?

Probably overcompensating. But I wasn't meeting her. And I think, you know, you said, how do you actually enter into the space? Not ignore it, not just Holy Spirit empowered me, I'll flush it away. We actually had to look each other in the eye and discuss it. And I had to hold space of why she was hurt. And the Holy Spirit empowers me to actually hold that space and not fix. I'm so prone to like, all right, I'm going to do this next time. And yeah, you're right. And ultimately, I just needed her to be heard.

I think the Holy Spirit on this most recent one was really just, as she was sharing her heart, and I was clueless to it, was David, listen to her. Make sure, like, feel what she's feeling. Do you understand? Not just are you going to get home on time next time to make this better and work for you.

Do you understand what she's experiencing and feeling? And that was the Holy Spirit's prompting in me that didn't make it perfectly right quickly, but it was how he was wanting me to respond. You guys, this is the best case scenario, because you're both yielding to the power of the Holy Spirit who lives in you.

So, let's take it to a different scenario. Let's say, Meg, you're still angry. David's not home.

But David, you don't really, you're not really walking with Jesus. And so, when you start sensing Meg's – I'm glad you picked him and not me. Meg's tension, you respond with, what's your problem? You know, I'm bringing home money.

I'm providing for our family. You need to relax. That's a trigger word for me when Dave tells me to relax.

Maybe we can make it about you really quickly, Dave. But how, in that circumstance, like you have one partner, like she's wanting to live empowered by the Spirit, but man, you get so triggered when your spouse is responding in a negative way. The most recent example that I'm thinking of is more with one of our kids.

And they know how to push our buttons for sure. And I'll snap back and say something, and I've totally lowered myself to their level of maturity in the moment and say something that's totally out of line and not wise parenting. And yeah, I mean, it happens. And then I go there, and then I am living out of the sun in my heart. And hopefully, I mean, in that scenario, I said something and was hurtful and finally realized, okay, we need to stop talking about this right now.

I think actually you probably came and were like, hey, just you guys need some space. I mean, there is a reality of when the flooding is happening for us, whether it's in a marriage conflict intention, whether it's between a mom and a kid or a dad and a kid, the flooding happens. And in the moment of flooding, you're really not going to be able to get to the heart of it. And you can't let it linger for too long or it can just get pushed under the rug and build tension and explode the next time. But it is healthy to go, all right, let's get to the side.

Let's have a space for our hearts to soften and the flooding to go down so that we can actually hear and respond appropriately. Yeah, I mean, it's hard for me to hear the Holy Spirit when my emotions are so high and I am set in my ways and thinking I'm right and my pride has taken over. But when I can remove myself, then I can take a minute. OK, Lord, I do hear you and you're right. And sometimes it takes me a while to get to the point where I can say I was wrong.

And even as a parent, it's more tempting to hold on to my right because I am the parent. And I mean, obviously, if I've said something hurtful or wrong, then I need to go back. And I mean, that's not OK. But sometimes even my tone, I can justify wrongly, you know, and like, OK, that's also wrong. And I have to admit that and confess that like we were talking about.

This happened to me yesterday with an adult son where I'm texting. I'm getting my hair cut and he's texting and he's mad at me for something and he's going on. And I feel totally justified in my response.

This is awful. I start texting him the fruit of the Spirit in my phone. Well, you sure aren't showing love, joy, peace, patience. I have it in my phone. And I was about to hit send. Oh, you didn't send it?

No, because thank goodness. I mean, this guy's 30 years old and I'm going to send him the fruit of the Spirit on the text on the phone. And so I just thought it's that taking a moment to pull back. That's where I, you guys, I'm such a reactor that I just want to, oh, I'm going to show you and I'm texting away or talking away. Well, that's why a trigger word is relax, because I'm not sort of wired that way.

I should have more of that, but I'm pretty laid back. And so when she's getting all amped up and I didn't know it decades ago, but I would just go like, honey, just relax. She would blow up. You would tell me to relax again.

I'm like, oh, my goodness. Why is that such a trigger? I think because I want to do something about it.

I want to do it now. And I'm so prone to fearing that we'll never deal with it because you tend to pull away from conflict. And so I'll jump in head first. And even with that son, though, it's been, I love one of the fruit of the Spirit, self-control. And so instead of pushing send, pull away, take a breath. It's the spiritual breathing. And part of that is acknowledging, Lord, I am so mad right now.

Actually, my anger comes from my hurt and rejection. Just taking a moment to do that and, Lord, show me what I'm missing. And Jesus, fill me with your Spirit.

Give me knowledge. I love the fruit of the Spirit because if we're living by that, we're going to look at ourselves instead of pointing our finger as I was doing. And here's the question that comes to my mind right now is, what if your spouse or your son or daughter or your coworker or friend doesn't change? They never, even an hour later, and they're a follower of Christ, but they never get to a point where they apologize or they just never get this attitude under control.

So it really is never going to get there. How do you, under the power of the Holy Spirit, allow yourself to be like, OK, their behavior is not going to change me being filled with the Spirit? You're listening to Dave and Anne Wilson with David and Meg Robbins on Family Life Today. We'll hear David's answer in just a minute.

But first, I've got a quick question. How would you rate your marriage on a scale from one to 10? Now, be honest, that number may genuinely scare you or make you excited. But regardless of where you are, I encourage you to check out Family Life's Weekend to Remember Marriage Getaway. Here's what a husband of 17 years said after the getaway. He said, I have realized that marriage is a covenant and not a contract, and that my marriage is more important than other trivial stuff in life. Now, for the past 40 years, this getaway has impacted millions of marriages and encouraged them in the relationship and faith. And now through September 19th, registrations are half off.

So don't wait. Visit familylifetoday.com to find a date and location that works for you and save 50% on a Weekend to Remember Marriage Getaway. Your marriage is worth it. All right, now back to the conversation.

How do you respond if your spouse is not walking in the power of God's Spirit? You don't see really any change in their life. Here's David Robbins. There's the micro-mundane every day that happens, and that's, you know, the first situations we were in. And there's also the bigger, deeper rooted issues in our lives.

And what I would first want us all, and I think we all agree, is never change. Well, there's nothing outside of God's power to redeem and restore. However, when we know there's issues that we go, this is a long-haul journey.

This is a trust breach that was huge. How do I respond in the power of the Holy Spirit, even though this is a long road journey and an issue in this person's life or the stubbornness in someone's life? A lot of rubber meets the road, and a lot of marriages get into a really helpless place in this point.

But Jesus is there for us. And I think one of the things that, for me, and I agree with you and relate with you when it comes, I'm an activator, I'm a reactor. Let's go get after it. Let's fix it, you know?

I'm not sufficiently good, wise, or gifted enough to make this thing work. Like, it is God that has to enter in, and how do I wait and respond to Him? We've been talking this whole time about how we respond in a micro-moment, one of the big macro-moments. How do we respond, first and foremost, in order for us to keep living in the power of the Holy Spirit and pursuing those relationships that matter most to us, even though there may be issues that, I mean, are stuck issues. We have to turn our eyes to the Lord and our hearts to the Lord and have spiritual ears to hear, God, how do you want me to respond? And it is a big question when we can't fix it right away, and God has to enter in in a fresh way. And I just go, I am so often wanting to fix something in my flesh. And God wants to say, I'm going to move in my own time, trust me, walk with me.

And there's this story that, for me, makes it hit home so bluntly for how much I depend upon my flesh. It was the story of a family that took a vacation in Galveston, Texas. Pretty beach, but there's barges nearby, it's a cargo ship, so, you know, it's an interesting beach, you know? But people vacation there. I did a wedding there.

That's what I was doing there. I know the song. There you go. Okay.

Galveston, oh, Galveston. Here we go, bring the guitar. Here we go.

Here we go. There was a family vacation there, and it's so ugly that this cute little dog comes running up to it, and the kids play with it, and you know what's coming. Long story short, they clean it up, and it's still an ugly dog, but at least they groomed it and petted it, and they feed it. It sticks around.

The kids win. The dog comes home with the family. And so they're at home now, and they have this new dog, and they leave it for the first time in their house. And they set it away and get it all propped up and in their home safely. Well, they come back, and they come home to their longtime family cat. Deceased but better word would be destroyed.

And there's no doubt who the culprit is. This new, so ugly that its cute little dog has blood all over its face, and so they pick it up, rush to the vet, give the dog to the vet. They say, hey, rabies, what's going on here? And the vet takes it, comes back out empty-handed, and says, well, we know the problem. What you have here is no dog. What you have here is an African rat. There's a species of African rats that comes from the boats of Galveston's.

They can grow up to 15 to 18 pounds, and you fed it. It stuck around, but a rat will always be a rat, will always be a rat. And in the same way, our flesh will always be our flesh, will always be our flesh. You can groom it.

You can have it in church every week. You can keep it away from every temptation you could possibly do, but eventually, your flesh is going to pop up. If you try to perfect yourself, if you try to respond and go, all right, I'm going to buckle down, and I'm going to try to respond to this situation with all the peace and patience I can do in my own energy, it's going to run dry. And some people are really disciplined and are committed and can stick it out for a long time. But eventually, your flesh is going to show its true colors.

You will respond with fits of rage and anger and jealousy and envy. And that's why we have to depend upon the Holy Spirit and the new resources He puts in us. So now I can call my flesh the rat. Stop grooming the rat.

I mean, it's so true, though. I can remember sitting on a park bench with Ann. I've shared this before. So the short story is we got in a fight at a park on this bench on a beautiful sunny day in the summer of Michigan. So it was just like this beautiful setting, people walking by, and now we're in a fight.

And so you can't really get in a fight because there's people. You're in public. But I remember being so angry, like, she's wrong, I'm right.

And again, we're saying this in firm comments, but we're sort of smiling because we should have gone somewhere. I wasn't smiling. I was wiping tears off my face. Do you remember this moment? Yeah, she was so hurt. And I remember in that moment feeling like the Holy Spirit who lives right in our soul. If you're a Father of Christ, He can move and convict and soften your heart, and He was trying to soften my heart.

He was just so clear. He was like, she's hurting. What you've said has hurt her even more. All you care about is you.

You need to care about her pain. And I was so mad. I was like, I don't care. It was one of these battles.

You talk about a rat or a flesh. It was like, I know all that's true, but I still do not want to submit to God softening my heart. And it was a war just sitting there. And I'll tell you what, I did. It was hard. And I remember going, okay, God, would you soften my heart?

Because I just, I don't have the power to do it. It's almost like I threw my hands up, white flag, okay, do what I can't do. And it was like this flood of tenderness just hit me. I was amazed. I mean, it really was putting into action. A gentle answer turns away wrath because you are soft, you are gentle.

And I responded to that. Like it totally took our level of anger and frustration and it took it all the way down. Yeah, and again, it's a moment that I look back on. It was decades ago that you go, you know, God does still do the impossible. You got to let him do it. He's not going to override your will. But if you get to a point where you say, okay, God, I can't do this. Would you do it? Even in your marriage, like I can't see us making it a week or a month.

I can't see us making it. Keep up. Shut up your hands and say, God, I don't have in me what it takes to make this marriage work. He'll say, okay, now you're where I need you. You know, what's your famous quote, if dependency is the goal?

Yeah, I don't know if it's my original, but it's one that I love and repeat often. I always say, David Robbins said this. If dependency is the goal, then weakness is actually an advantage. Because his power is made perfect in our weakness. Yeah. And so when they're so weak, I think he's like, okay, now you're at a place where I can actually do what I want to do. I'll fill you to overflowing.

Right. You know, as you guys were talking about the park bench, it made me think, Meg, back to a weekend to remember we went to and got to be participants in. And, you know, it was something that when we were there, I brought something to you on a Saturday afternoon that the Lord was softening my heart to.

I didn't go into the weekend even thinking about it or knowing it was something I was kind of withholding from you. But I remember God softening my heart and me offering up the gift of, hey, here's some insecurities I have that I want to bring to you and I want to invite you in on. And the way you moved toward me in that space and that became kind of part of our story together, that's the great thing about weekends to remember. They create that space for the Holy Spirit to speak. You know, a lot of times, and we've been experiencing this, like we're just going through the grind and week after week, it's just flooding to the next thing. And we don't have that space to look each other in the eye and make room for God to move. Yeah, when you pull away and say, I'm going to put energy into the relationships that matter most and our marriage is the most second to Christ, something almost magical happens. You know, you walk in there Friday night and you're like, you know, you're tired. But by Sunday morning, isn't it? I've seen it. We've done it for 30 plus years.

Almost every conference we've been a part of, little and big miracles take place. And here's the thing, right? Right now we have a two for one offer.

Is that true? Yeah, right now people can actually get half off. They can get half off for themselves. People can buy gift cards. And if you know someone who could use a getaway, then you could get half off for them and give it as a gift. But this is a unique opportunity.

We only do this twice a year where you could get half off your registration for a weekend to remember. So jump on it now. You're listening to David Wilson with the president of family life, David Robbins, and his wife, Meg, on family life today. And tomorrow, David Wilson will be joined by Carl Clausen. He tells his story of how God saved him from addiction and restored his relationship with his wife. And it wasn't through the power of self-help, but through the power of God's grace. That's tomorrow. On behalf of David Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of family life today. Family life today is a production of family life, a crew ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.