Myths About Discipling Our Kids

When you have spiritual questions, where do you go for answers? For that matter, as you're seeking to raise your kids to follow Christ, where do you go for wisdom or for counsel?

Here's Chap Bettis. I heard someone say, stop Googling Google and start Googling the church. You know, you've got older people in the church who will be happy to share some thoughts where you're saying, hey, how did you handle this when your kids were younger? How are you handling it now?

Why do we believe that on this most important task, we should know how to do it without any help? This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.

I'm Bob Lapine. You can find us online at familylifetoday.com. All of us as parents need help as we raise our kids.

The question is, where do we go for help? We'll talk more about that today. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today.

Thanks for joining us. I read this quote from Spurgeon that I just found myself going. I needed to be reminded of that again. He said, if our children lose the crown of life, it will be small consolation that they have won laurels of literature and art or sports.

I'm just throwing that in for you. He didn't say sports. But the point as parents, we have to remember to keep the main thing the main thing. And I remember Tim Kimmel, our friend Tim Kimmel years ago saying a lot of parents are thinking, I want my kid to get into a good college, have good grades, make good friends, get a good job. And he realized we're putting our ladder against the wrong wall if we think that's what's most important.

Interesting, Bob. I was sitting with a group of pastors' wives years ago, and we were talking about parenting. And I said, what do you want? Like, what do you want for your kids? And I was really interested in their answers. And you know, I was surprised because almost all of them said, I just want my kids to be happy. And I'm thinking, I don't want my kids to be happy. I want them to be warriors. I want them to mark their generation for Christ. And a lot of times that happens when they're not happy.

And so I think that's just a good question of what are we aiming for? Yeah, and I read that same quote because I know what book we're talking about. And I read it probably about the same time you did. And I was challenged because, you know, I'm a pastor, but I'm a coach. And when I watch my kids play sports, and the one made it all the way to the Detroit Lions locker room, I thought that was it. This is how it could be any greater than having Cody locker beside Calvin Johnson.

This is it. And then when he's out of the NFL and pastoring with me, God hit me and said, this is so much better. Not that your son or daughter has to be in the ministry with you, but I had the opportunity to do that.

And it reminded me of that quote. It's like, this is what really matters, making disciples who make disciples. 3 John 4 says, there's no greater joy than to know that our kids are walking in the truth. And John's talking about his spiritual children, but how much more for our biological children. No greater joy.

And there's no greater pain for a parent than when your kids aren't walking in the truth. Chap Bettis is joining us on Family Life Today. Chap, welcome back. Thank you. Chap is an author, a speaker. He's got a book called The Disciple Making Parent that we're talking about this week, and a number of other resources. In fact, you've got a website called thedisciplemakingparent.com. You are committed to helping moms and dads understand the priority of discipleship and understand how to accomplish that as they raise their kids.

Yeah. God has blessed us with a child that will live forever and we get to influence them. And that's really such a high privilege and gives meaning to the messiness of the toddler years and the trials. The Spurgeon quote is one you've included in your book. And you talk in your book about some of the myths parents have about parenting. And I thought this was really good.

Oh yeah. I mean, you mentioned three myths and, you know, they sort of come off of some of the statue quote in there, which, you know, sort of scary that 60%, almost 60% of kids that were in church every week of their life when they hit age 29, they're not even going to church. And so as parents, we see those kinds of things.

We're like, oh my goodness, what do I need to do to be a disciple making parent? And I love where you're like, well, here's the myths that we all have. I'd love to have you talk about it. I'll read them to them.

You talk about them. The first one was myth number one, the perfect environment will guarantee that my children follow the Lord. Well, that's just, that's just not true, period. You know, I mean, what was wrong with the garden that Adam and Eve turned away?

What did Jesus do wrong with, you know, Judas? Sin comes on the hard drive of our kids' hearts, you know, so one sinner gets together with another sinner and creates a little sinner. The perfect environment is not going to change them.

It's really a heart issue. And yet we try and get the perfect environment. Every parent, Mary Ann and I felt this way. I think Mary Ann more than me, it was like, give me the recipe. Oh, absolutely. I will follow this recipe to the letter because nothing matters more than my kids being where they are. So just tell me what to do. And not to do. Yeah. If I need to stand on my head for 30 minutes a day, you know, if I need to read them the Bible for 15 minutes at night, should it be 15 or 20?

Which one works? Every parent is looking for that formula. There's no formula, is there? Well, and that's in the introduction, I talk about this as a playbook or a guidebook that this is an active process. So you're, you're actively coaching and you've got different dynamics in your marriage. Or if you're a single parent, you've got different dynamics of family, of church, and then the personality themselves. And so this is an active hands-on process where you're using discernment.

There is no formula. So it's not like baking a cake. And myth number two, the ultimate goal of my Christian life is to have my children follow the Lord. Well, that's, it is a good thing. It is a really good thing, but it can't be a God thing.

It can't be our idol. But I read that one and I thought, but that feels right. That does feel right. That is my goal, is to have my kids, I mean, if this really matters, shouldn't that be the biggest thing? But then they're actually controlling my walk with the Lord. You know, my joy is in the Lord, not in my circumstances. And so if we have a teenage meltdown, well, then I'm down in the dumps because, oh no, my child and I got to walk with the Lord. Or if they're an older prodigal, it is incredibly painful, but it's not the ultimate thing. I'm going to follow the Lord no matter what.

Jonathan Edwards, that was one of his resolutions. Resolved, I will follow the Lord, even if no one else does. Well, you talked about that it's easy to let our kids become an idol. Talk about that, because I see that all the time.

It's just easy to fall into that without being aware. We live in a child-centered culture and I think that is the hardest way Christians have to be different. My son played baseball and I was complimenting another dad on, you know, his son was really, really good. And he said to me, he thanked me and then he said, after all, what else is there? And I thought, yeah, this is it.

This is it. And yet for us, we want our children to see that we serve the Lord. I mean, I've said it this way. I will die for you, but I will not live for you.

You know, I give my life, but I'm going to honor the Lord and I live for something bigger than you. Putting our children at the center of our universe, that's way too heavy of a responsibility. You know, like, and then it just changes the dynamic of the family now where now they're controlling them.

And we're talking about before, if they're upset, you know, oh, my world's out of whack. Well, no, it's part of being a good parent is sometimes your children don't like you and that's okay. And so in a similar way to say, no, my children are not going to control my life. I want to serve them and serve them in a way of maturity, which brings, sometimes brings hard, hard times. But ultimately I serve the Lord. And then, and then if I'm married, then my spouse is second important.

And it's really easy. I know we've all done it to let your children determine your happiness based on how they're doing. Especially for moms. I don't know about dads, but this can rule my emotions. It can rule every, I think, dads as well.

Maybe, I don't know if it's different for moms. I know for me, and I've seen this often, you know, when your child's young, you're going to church, you're teaching them all the stuff. You're reading Bible verses at night.

You're playing all the great music. And they just, they're just, their faith seems strong and they receive it and they're awesome. And then they become teenagers, you know, and they start asking questions and maybe they start sneaking off and doing things. Or like, I hate going to church, you know, and your dad's the pastor. That's awkward. Or they start partying, drinking, whatever. And as a Christian parent, you think, I failed.

It's your idol because idols determine your happiness and you're seeking life in that. And I think parents at that moment think, I failed. The future's going to even get worse. And I always say, don't judge your parenting when they're teenagers. Wait till they're 30. And now I have a 34-year-old, so they say, wait till they're 40.

But you know what I'm saying? It's almost like, and we used to sometimes get in a little bit of an argument because I'd be like, I want them and expect them to fail. I don't want that, you know, but it isn't the worst thing in the world if they get drunk. And again, I'm not, I mean, it's, you know, you never want that to happen. But I'm like, maybe God's going to use that to get to the disciple that we're trying to raise 10 years from now, five years from now.

This could be a pivotal moment. It's OK. We get to be a part of them understanding what they did sin-wise. Five years from now, they're going to be at college or whatever, and we're not going to know.

At least now they're still on a roof. We can help walk them through that journey out of that valley. The reality is your child's sin nature is going to emerge in some way in their life. It could emerge as pride and self-righteousness. It could emerge as thinking, I'm doing it all right.

Therefore, I'm one of the good people, right? I mean, so we have to be aware that just as our sin oozes out of us, your child's sin is going to pop out of them. So if it pops out as they got drunk one night, well, nobody wants that, like you said. But if it pops out that they think they're misperfect, that's as much of a problem. And we have, this is a part of disciple making, right?

Well, yeah. And if I can speak to both of those things, I think it's especially moms who are so invested in their kids to say, my identity is not tied up with my kids. My identity is in Christ.

And I want to be a faithful parent, not a perfect parent and not even dependent upon the outcome. So our kids' salvation is not by works. So it's not by their works and it's not by our works. So we can't have the perfect environment and sin comes on the hard drive of our kids.

So, yeah, especially the identity. And then, Dave, what you were speaking about with coming out in the teen years, I include in the book on one of the chapters of prayer, just praying that secret sin would come out. And I told my kids that, so I didn't tell it. Oh, us too.

I didn't tell it as manipulation. I'm serious. Like, I'm hoping that this comes out. And when it comes out, you freak out a little bit, right? Yeah, because you get caught. But that's God's grace, because you'd rather them get caught stealing at 14 than 24.

Right. When you can deal with it, when you can. And talk about it. And sometimes I've seen where that's the time to say, hey, are you really following the Lord or not? And so hopefully there's the church is giving, parents are giving each other grace and saying, you've been faithful and this is good. The sin nature's coming out. Yeah, I've talked to parents, especially moms, because I think, I really do think we can tend to get our identity tied up in our kids a lot.

Help us to know how do we not do that? Well, I think some of that is scripturally realizing that's not my identity. I think part of it is being a part of the church and having older moms to give us some influence there. Because I think if your peers are all younger moms, then you're. You're all in it together. You're in it together, which is good. But then there's also this maybe comparison.

I don't know. I don't want to throw stones at moms here, but there's this comparison. There's this fear.

How am I doing as a mom? And so then you start to micromanage some of these things. And like you and Dave were talking about it a minute ago, where some of these bad things come out and you're like, oh, life is life is over. Life is ruined.

I failed. And then I think just remembering first, you love the Lord. Second, your wife, if you're married and then you're also a church member, you need to you need to keep honoring the Lord there. And oh, yeah, I have some kids and I love them, too. That gets into your third myth, which is it's all up to me. You know, as a parent, you think it's all on me. And your answer to that is you need you need a body.

You need a community. Talk about that a little bit, because I think sometimes in the church, we can almost hide because we think our kids need to be perfect. And everybody else's kids are because we're all church people. We're afraid of judgment. And so we just sort of hide and we feel we become isolated, you know, because we don't want to walk in and say, hey, I'm really struggling.

My kids really struggling. We just want to say. But the church is there to say, how can we come alongside you? Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we could go all the way back to make disciples. The command is surrounded by two promises. All authority has been given to me and I'm with you always. So the Holy Spirit, Lord, show me, give give us wisdom. But part of that wisdom comes from the church body. And, you know, I've heard someone say, stop Googling Google and start Googling the church. You know, you've got older people in the church who will be happy to share some thoughts, but they're afraid of telling you things because they don't want to appear judgmental.

You know, like the old church lady who's going around and condemning. But yeah, you have to be humble and find other people where you're saying, hey, how does this. How did you handle this when your kids were younger?

How are you handling it now? Why do we believe that on this most important task, we should know how to do it without any help? And it's interesting to think of how your kids will learn from the people you connect them to at the church as well. I love the story in your book where your daughter says, I want to become like. And you're thinking, tell that story.

Well, it's spontaneous. And we had a great church community. And what I love about the disciple making parent is it was other watching other families who had these same thoughts and were the same bent trying to work as we're working together. And, you know, you're pouring your life into your kids. And then finally, you know, they get old enough and they're starting to be self-aware. And they say, oh, my, I think it was my oldest daughter.

She said, dad, you know how I want to be like when I grow up. And I'm like, yeah, your mom and dad. Right. She says, you know, this is Mr. Decitale and Mrs. Right. They're just, they're so joyful. And I just, I was like, oh, okay.

No, no, no. Actually, that's really good. That's really good that we're in the community. And she's, and as a six year old, she's observing. And so that's, I mean, I think that's part of the issue to realize is the people, our friends are influencing our kids. So we want to be around people who love the Lord. And also, I am a person who is influencing your child. And I want to take that seriously. And I'm not even a Sunday school teacher, but I'm your friend. And so, you know, we're hanging out.

And so now I can speak about how much I respect you or, you know, have some influence that way in a positive way. I remember when our three sons were very little. Ann and I started praying for mentors in their life because we knew as they grow older, they're going to receive truth better sometimes from somebody else than just mom and dad. And they see all the mess in your house.

Exactly. And so I remember we just started praying and had no idea, is God going to answer this? Who could it be?

And I'm sitting here now with a 34 year old, 31 year old, 29 year old. And I'm like, Oh my goodness, God provided Frank. God provided Ryan.

God provided Rob. And you know, it's really interesting. Frank was an attorney in our church and he started leading a small group of our oldest son, CJ, when he was in middle school, right? He was 11.

Yeah, 11 years old. And they still connect. I mean, the whole group, every year they get in a van and they drive south to where Frank's parents have a houseboat and they spend a week in a houseboat, the small group from middle school. And they're all, you know, married men now. And I'm like, look at what God did with Frank.

I remember one time Cody was in a group, my youngest in high school, and they were all down in our basement and, you know, Rob's leading that group. And I just thought, this is awesome. I thought, I wonder what they're doing down there. So I, you know, opened the door and I don't want to go down, but I just stick my ear down the stairwell and I hear him talking, these middle school boys about sexual temptation. And I'm like, man, that is awesome that somebody else is talking to them about that. But no, I did. I just smiled and said, thank God for Rob stepping into the really tough issues that middle school boys are asking questions about and giving them the word of God.

And it wasn't me. Not that I don't need to do that as well, but what a gift, you know, the church can be to helping you raise disciples. My kids will tell you that I had this conversation with them. I would say, I want you to look around for somebody who's five to 10 years older than you and you look at their life and you say, I'd like my life to look like that five or 10 years from now. And then I want you to hang out with them and say, what did you do to get to where you are? And I would ask them, have you picked out your person? Have you got somebody? And I remember one of my sons saying, yeah, my person is this person. And I went, no, that wasn't what I had in mind. That's not. But I said, what is it about that person?

What is it that you're drawn to or what what do you appreciate about them? And we were able to have those conversations. I didn't just want somebody to enter into my child's life. I wanted my kids to be saying, who do I who's going to be my Paul?

If I'm Timothy, who's my Paul? Because we all need that, don't we? And so to actively engage your kids in that process of who are you looking at?

When they're in elementary school, who's the person in high school that you would like your high school to look like when you grow up? Follow that person. Find out what got them there.

I agree with that. Even my friends, we discipled each other's daughters because we hung out so much. The daughters were kind of being drawn to one another's friends. And so it was this perfect situation. But, Chap, take us into your family.

What does that look like? What does it look like with you and your wife over the years as you've discipled your kids? Well, I think I'd back up and say one of the things that I hear from parents, even churchgoing parents, is I can't do this.

I don't know what to do. You know, if you look at the life of Jesus, Jesus taught the crowds and he made disciples. He healed the sick and he made disciples. And, you know, he went to a wedding and he's making disciples. So this is integrated into our life.

It's not like, okay, we have to do this intense program for three weeks or 30 weeks or whatever. It's just part of life where as I'm doing life, as I'm taking care of my house, going out for a trip, as I'm taking care of the in-laws, whatever, I'm also making disciples. I'm thinking about that. So they're routines that are part of my life.

But I'm thinking about that. How is the gospel being passed? And I think if you look at the life of Jesus, there were five things. I've sort of narrowed it down to five. Model, love, teach, serve and pray.

Those were good. So that he models it. We've already talked about that before. So are our kids seeing me read my Bible? So positively, are they seeing me read my Bible? Are we going to church?

And which I would argue, I don't know if I'm going to step on toes here, but I'm a big believer in a paper Bible. Because your kids don't know if you're looking at your phone, whether you're looking at Instagram or you're looking at your Bible. So do my kids see me read my Bible?

Do they, like we talked about earlier, do they hear me talking about Jesus? So positively modeling. So I think that's a big thing, thinking about that for my wife and me.

And then model love. Is there love in our home? Our home is meant to display the Trinity.

And certainly Ephesians 6 talks about obedience and we should raise our children to obey us. But I think fundamentally the question, is there joy in our home? Are we reflecting the joy of the Trinity? Not all the time, not perfectly, I know, you know.

But is that our goal? And are we emotionally connected? One thing I did to stay emotionally connected, try and stay emotionally connected as a busy pastor is I'd take my kids out on donut dates. So just, you know, sometimes you're so busy and we have four kids, two years apart. So, you know, you sit down and you're like, what's your name again?

And who's your best friend and what grade are you in? And so I think that's just a very practical thing, a big win for dads, busy dads, you know, 45 minutes, five bucks to take your kids out. Well, you have two little books, The Disciple Making Parents Donut Date Journal, 70 Questions to Connect to Your Child's Heart.

And I love this because I think a lot of parents don't know, what do I do? And so you took your kids, tell us what you did. Well, yeah, so in my calendar it was once a week. So it's not like I was taking four kids out each week. So it was just once a week I'm going to the donut place and whose turn is it? They of course remember, you know, and you just got a donut and strawberry milk, big deal, you know. And I'm sitting asking questions and I don't even think I realized it at this point, but looking back, so I would write down the answers.

Partly it really is for me to remember, but I think that indicated importance to them. I saw a dad, my 20 year old son and I were out just having a breakfast and I saw another dad with his daughter, assuming in my hometown, not Christian. And I'm like, yes, you're doing it. And then he pulled out his phone. And I'm like, man, the issue is not the breakfast.

The issue is connecting, giving her your attention, full attention. I love that you have a little letter that your 22 year old daughter wrote, and this is what she said. I can remember clearly the excitement of my eight year old self when it was my turn to go out with dad. Every few weeks we would drive to a donut shop right down the road. Not only did I get to stuff my mouth with colorful sprinkles and strawberry milk, but I got dad all to myself. He would ask questions like who my best friends were or my favorite subject in school. All my answers were written down in a maroon journal that was just for my dates with dad. This was a sweet and cherished tradition that carried on for many years. I was teary reading that thinking as a young girl, this showed so much like you're important to me.

I want to know you and I want to know about your life. And I bet that relationship with that daughter and all your kids is still close because you took the time and you were intentional to be with them and even write it down. That's genius. It continues to, you know, and then obviously my wife has done that. And guys, it's somewhat different. Guys like to be shoulder to shoulder, you know, rather than face to face sometimes. It's not a date, it's a hangout.

Let's go hang, right? I called it manhood training with the boys. We'd go out on Saturday morning for a biscuit or something, I'd say this is manhood training. And we'd talk about how does a boy become a man and what does that mean? And that was part of how we tried to do it with our boys. So yeah, it's dates with the girls. And I did it too with our boys.

And part of, I think what you're also doing is you're making deposits because then there are times when they're withdrawals. So there were a couple of guy dates, sort of a come to Jesus date. We need to talk about how you're acting and why it's not okay.

But what was cool was that the context was already there. So it wasn't like you're invading their room and you're okay, we need to talk about this. So we're going to have a serious talk.

There was a time and a space to set, this is important and here's some correction. And I think it's key to also say when they become teenagers, that often ends for mom and dad because they're pulling away. And we think, oh, they don't want to be with us.

And the opposite is true. They are pulling away. They should pull away. They're becoming adults. But we have to pursue because that time is still precious to them, even though they may never say it out loud, it's critical. And your disciple making responsibilities don't end when they hit 12.

So you have to be adapting and changing. You've got to have a book like Chap's book to help you navigate through these years. Chap, thanks for being with us and for taking us into this content. This is so good. My joy.

Yeah. We have got Chap's book available in our Family Life Today Resource Center. You can go to familylifetoday.com and look for the book, The Disciple Making Parent.

In fact, if you are interested in the audiobook, Chap is going to make that available to all of our listeners for free. You can go to familylifetoday.com for information on how you can download a copy of The Disciple Making Parent audiobook for free. Again, the website is familylifetoday.com. If you'd like to order the paper book, it's available for order online as well. Go to familylifetoday.com or call us at 1-800-358-6329.

That's 1-800-F as in Family, L as in Life and then the word Today. By the way, let me also mention Family Life's Art of Parenting video series. This series is a great course for you and others to go through together and talk about the essential components of raising healthy, strong, godly kids.

Information about the art of parenting is available online as well. Go to familylifetoday.com or if you have any questions, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. You know, during the challenges all of us have faced over the last 12 months here at Family Life, we have become freshly aware of just how significant you are as friends of this ministry, especially those of you who support this ministry as donors. David Robbins, the president of Family Life is here with us today and David, we recognize now more than ever just how critical and how important our Family Life donors are. David Robbins Yeah, as you look back at this year-end, I just want to express my gratitude.

There are seasons in life where you feel how extremely dependent you are, whether that's personally in my own home with Meg and our kids and walking through 2020 or whether that's as a ministry at Family Life. And man, we were at a point at the end of the year where we really did need the family and partners to come alongside us to continue ministry in the ways that they're really we love providing and providing biblical help and hope to marriages and families and you came through. We are so grateful for the ways that you have partnered with us and allowed us to be set up in this new year to keep ministry going strong and keep ministry going strong in a time where it's still really needed in the home.

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We're going to talk about introverts, how significant introverts are, how powerful they are, and what they can do to leverage how God made them to have an impact on our world. Holly Gerth joins us to talk about that tomorrow. We hope you can join us for that as well. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas, a crew ministry. Hope for today, hope for tomorrow.