Manti Te'o Documentary Reaction (Hour 3)

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Rocket can. I was all over this Manti Teo docu-series. I was in it, briefly, had like a 15-second appearance interviewing Manti Teo. But what I meant by I was all over it was I was glued to the two-hour docu-series.

It was in two different episodes. I watched it back to back and I thought it was fascinating. My quick takeaway as Mike Goldwick Jr. is going to join us to expand more on the docu-series coming up at 8 20 p.m. Eastern is for the last 10 years I said how dumb can Manti Teo be? You're the star linebacker at Notre Dame, one of the star players in college football, a finalist for the Heisman. You could get any girl in the country that you want just on your campus. And you dated someone that you've never met. And there's still part of me that goes, how do you become so emotionally connected to someone that you've never met? However, after I watched the docu-series, I do have sympathy for Manti Teo because Linaya, and I don't want to spoil the rest of the docu-series for people have been watching, but a lot of this is public information.

The elaborate scheme here, it's crazy. Like, I understand Linaya, who now has transitioned to becoming a woman and is transgender, used this account of Lene Kukua to be who she wanted to be. But with that being said, like you take it to a level when you develop a relationship with someone online, where you come up with this story of she was in a car crash, and you call up Manti Teo, and she's heavily breathing, and then you make Manti think that the conversations that they were having started to help heal her emotionally. And Manti is a very emotional, you know, spiritual person is the word I'm looking for. And then you get to the whole leukemia part, and then you say she died.

Like that's, I understand if you want to find yourself and be someone, that's fine and more power to you, but to go to those levels and that extreme is really messed up. And there's still part of that goes, man, how do you fall for that if you're Manti Teo? But after watching it and watching this docu-series, and even when Dr. Phil comes in, remember we did that interview with Linaya, and that's one of the craziest part of docu-series, the entrance of Dr. Phil. It is electric when Dr. Phil makes his entrance in the docu-series, but he said he talked to someone that when they originally heard the voicemails that were released, they said it was like a one in a million chance that that could actually be Linaya.

And then they put Linaya in a booth and had him do the voice, and it does sound as if that, if there was a Linay Kaku out there, that would be Linay Kaku. It's just wild, wild to relive that 10 years later. Crazy. And I was covering the Heisman Trophy. I remember I had five or six questions of sitting right next to Manti Teo, and he found out two days beforehand that something was up. And he went through the Heisman Trophy presentation, went through the national championship game, Notre Dame got smacked by Alabama, and then the Deadspin article dropped shortly after that. And I do feel, I have sympathy for Manti Teo when you watch the docu-series, even though part of me goes, how do you fall for this?

But it was such an elaborate hoax. It is the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio, so we'll talk more about that with Mike Golick Jr. coming up in 15 minutes from now. But without further ado, let's get to the biggest stories of the day with some audio. It is called the News Brief. Time for your Daily News Brief. We get you caught up on the rumors, reports, and reconnaissance from the day in sports. Deshaun Watson has settled.

$5 million fine, 11 game suspension for this year. Deshaun Watson is now excited that the settlement can allow him to move on from the past. Looking forward to just moving forward with my career and being able to get back on the field as soon as possible. But yeah, that's the plan is to continue to grow as a person and individual and keep pushing forward. And Deshaun Watson on why the NFL and NFLPA settled on 11 games. Personally, I'm not sure. That was both the legal side and the NFLPA did.

My main focus was to come here each and every day and be the best teammate and player I can be. Yeah, he knows why. Because he wanted to get back on the field this season and this was the number why they came to an agreement to. He wanted this to be in a crude season what I read. So you need to have at least six games under your belt.

It is a bizarre number of 11 in the first game back is up against the Houston Texans. Deshaun Watson on why it took until August 12th to issue his first apology. I apologized beforehand. I think the second time I spoke to you guys, I actually apologized but I think for some people it didn't maybe register as I was apologizing. But you know, I just want to clarify, you know, I was apologizing to all women and people that was affected about the situation because it's you know, it's definitely a tough situation.

Yeah, that's baloney. You apologize because in the eleventh hour, you realize, okay, this isn't going to go your way and you wanted to salvage this season at least get on the field. So that's why you apologized last week. Your camp from the start has said you did nothing wrong and you are innocent and you've showed no remorse and then you did so just so you could meet a settlement because the NFL would have never settled with you if you didn't issue that apology last week and then shortly after that, we'll get to some of this audio in a bit. You basically walk back that apology.

So let's get to the Deshaun Watson on why he apologized if he believes he didn't do anything wrong. For everyone that was affected about the situation, there was a lot of people that was triggered. But not the women that accused you of this. I apologize to all women. So anybody that was affected, even yourself, everything. So I'm apologizing to everyone that was affected about this whole situation.

Hey, Hickey, I don't get what he means by that. A lot of people were triggered by this. Do you have any explanation on that? That makes no sense to me.

No, no. A lot of people were upset and rightfully so because what he was accused of is disgusting and you're angry if you hear that because it's like no one should be treated like this or no one should be acting like this. But to apologize for being triggered doesn't make much sense. The only way I could think the way he meant that is what he was accused of. It could bring back thoughts to people that have actually gone through sexual assault, but he says he did nothing wrong here.

So that's like the only way I could think about it. But then what are you apologizing for if you did nothing wrong? You clearly feel bad about something if you're apologizing for something or you just had to say you were sorry or the NFL wouldn't actually settle with you. Deshaun Watson reiterates that despite settling, he's still innocent. I've always stood on my innocence and always said that I've never assaulted anyone or disrespected anyone and I'm continuing to stand on that. But at the same time, I have to continue to push forward my life and my career and for us to be able to move forward, you know, I have to be able to take steps and pit prior to the side and I'm going to continue to stand on my innocence and keep pushing forward. Deshaun Watson and if he's confident that no other accusers will come forward.

Yeah, I can't speak on that too much. Like I said before, you know all these things that kind of came forward was a surprising thing, but you know I just have to continue to push forward as a person, as an individual. Deshaun Watson says the truth about what really happened will come out one day. I feel like through this whole process, we've been trying to tell my side of the story, but a lot of people wasn't able to or didn't really pay too much attention to it, but one day we will. Only time will tell and you know like I said before, I just continue to keep being the person I am, keep showing the community how good of a human being I am.

I have always been how I was raised and I just want to continue to show that and you know keep pushing forward. Here's what I don't get about that is he says he's been telling his story and one day the truth will come out and you'll see what he's saying. Why can't you do that right now? But why can't you find the way to make me believe you right now? Like I don't think he has any evidence or anything like that.

Like how do you prove that you didn't do this? Jimmy Haslam says the team has constantly supported Deshaun Watson since day one. Since Deshaun came into our building in April, he has done everything we have asked of him and more and he has been the person, the leader that we expected him to be and I think he understands where he is in his life. It's a pivotal point and we as an organization are going to do everything we can to help him not only be the best football player he can be, but more importantly to be the best person he can be. Jimmy Haslam is full of crap. He gave him 230 million dollars guaranteed.

Of course you're going to support him when you give him that much money. And not only that Ryan, he's done everything that we've asked of him. What has there really been to do? Not commit possibly any further acts?

Like what are you able to do? It's been a preseason game and training camp. Give me a break. Now this is finally where Jimmy Haslam actually showed some honesty. He reminds everyone that Deshaun Watson is a really good quarterback. It's important to remember that Deshaun is 26 years old. Okay and it's a high level NFL quarterback.

And bingo, that's why you did this move. If you're not in jail, if you're not criminally charged, yeah, guys, he's 26 years old. If I don't give him an opportunity, someone else will because he is a really good quarterback and that's what I said from the start with the Browns.

I know they probably can't do this, but I would respect them more. We don't know if we could trust Deshaun Watson, but if he's allowed to play and right now he's after 11 games, he's going to be allowed to play. He's a top 10 quarterback in this league.

We thought he was an upgrade to our football team. I would respect you more if you just said that. Jimmy Haslam is empathetic that Deshaun Watson deserves a second chance. In this country and hopefully in the world, people deserve second chances.

Okay, I really think that and I struggle a little bit. Is he never supposed to play again? Is he never supposed to be part of society?

Does he get no chance to rehabilitate himself? And that's what we're going to do. Okay. And you can say, well, that's because he's a star quarterback. Well, of course, but if he was Joe Smith, he wouldn't be in on the headlines every day. So we think people deserve a second chance.

We gave Kareem Hunt a second chance. Okay. And that's worked out pretty well.

Okay. We're hoping this will work out and we have strong belief it will. That doesn't mean we don't have empathy for people affected and we will continue to do so. But we strongly believe, strongly believe people deserve a second chance. We believe Deshaun Watson deserves a second chance. Oh yeah, you deserve the second chance if you actually show remorse.

And what gives you strong conviction that nothing else will happen in the future? That would be my follow up to Jimmy Haslam. Andrew Berry has asked if he would still trade for Deshaun Watson today given the multiple allegations that surfaced after the Watson trade was made. Yes, we would. And we mentioned at the time that our process was thorough.

We felt like we made an informed decision, understand why others may not have made the same decision that we did. But we do believe that Deshaun has strong positive qualities and we do think that he's done everything in his power to integrate himself with our team, done everything that we've asked. Here to be my follow up, other than being a really good quarterback, what are those other strong positive qualities right now, Andrew? That would be my follow up to Andrew Berry right there. Now the big question becomes when it gets to football, he's out for 11 games. Jacoby Bressett to me is not a really good starting quarterback in this league.

When you go get Jimmy Garoppolo, Andrew Berry makes it clear that Jacoby Bressett's their guy for the next 11 games. We feel very good about Jacoby. We like what we've seen throughout the spring. We like what we've seen throughout the summer. So we have a high degree of confidence in him.

You know, no different than any other position on the roster. We'll continue to evaluate our team over the course of camp, but really pleased with Jacoby. And then I was also, let's get into more Jimmy G discussion.

We'll give you two insiders here. This is Jonathan Jones and by the way, I think the Browns should trade for Jimmy G. I don't think they will though, but this is Jonathan Jones from CBS Sports HQ on if the Browns will trade for Jimmy Garoppolo. They're not going to trade for Jimmy Garoppolo.

They're not going to trade for his salary cap number, which is around $24 million. Everyone in the NFL is waiting on the San Francisco 49ers to ultimately cut Jimmy Garoppolo. And then there can be a sort of feeding frenzy on Garoppolo. Are the Browns interested? They've done their homework. No question about it.

They will continue to monitor it. And it obviously depends on the play of Jacoby Brissett. Here's the thing though, the longer you wait, and even if you now like, let's say go into the season without bringing him in and wait for Jacoby Brissett to fail, this isn't just a running back or a wide receiver where you tell them, I hear a few plays you could run, hear a few routes, just run these routes. There's a quarterback. He's got to lead the entire offense. That's why I'd be more proactive than reactive, but we're already past that point.

And yesterday when I was in for Maggie and Pearl, if I had Ian Rappaport on and rap cheat, when I said, isn't Jimmy G a better option than Jacoby Brissett, he had this to say. I think they could find a way to do it. I just don't think they want to do it.

You know, it's not like I think it's like too hard of a deal to do. I just, they've never really seemed that interested, honestly, and you know, they just, they have it, you know, they had Jacoby Brissett. They're paying a lot of money for Deshaun Watson. You know, do they want to give another 20 million dollars for a quarterback for a marginal improvement? Doesn't seem like they do. I just, I know that's something that a lot of people have talked about.

I just have never ever gotten the sense about even something honestly that's remotely possible. Shouldn't that though be fair to question it though, Ian Rapaport, because Jimmy G gives him a better chance to win this year than Jacoby Brissett, right? I mean, does he though?

I don't know. I mean, obviously, you know, it's not just that. It's also the 20 million dollars in Jimmy Grapple versus the, you know, five or so million dollars in Jacoby Brissett.

You know, all things are not equal. Plus, Brissett has had the entire offseason in the system. Jimmy G would be coming into a new system. Plus, you don't know if he's healthy, how his arm is going to hold. It is not a simple one for one. It is an extremely, extremely complex fit. So there you go. Everyone keeps on saying that it's not going to be Jimmy G via trade, even though they have the cap space, that it's not going to cost a whole lot in terms of draft capital to go get Jimmy Garoppolo.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Zach Galp Show CBS Sports Radio will talk about this Manti Teo docuseries on Netflix with the former teammate of Manti Teo, Mike Golick Jr. next when the Zach Galp Show returns in five minutes. You're listening to the Zach Galp Show. Really enjoyed the Manti Teo docuseries on Netflix. Definitely worth the two-hour investment of your time and one of the craziest stories I've ever seen.

I'm not just saying that I really enjoyed the docuseries because I somehow got in it for about ten seconds when I was at the Heisman Media availability when Manti Teo was a finalist and asked him a question about his girlfriend, which never existed, but at the time we didn't know that. So it's not just because I like it because you'll see me. It is just riveting.

And now joining us on the hotline on the Zach Galp Show on CBS Sports Radio is the podcast host of the Gojo Show via DraftKings and a former teammate of Manti Teo in Mike Golick Jr. Mike, appreciate the time. How you been? I'm doing well. And listen, you're not alone. I was talking to someone this morning. It's such an interesting phenomenon.

It's sort of like the people that sit behind the broadcast desk at NBA games constantly trying to get on camera. I couldn't help but look for myself in the background of every frame of that documentary. So you are not alone.

Yeah. I remember when the Deadspin article dropped because I was sitting next to Manti when he was doing his Heisman Media availability and a friend of mine, when the Deadspin article dropped, said you're in the article. And I go, how the heck am I in the article? I have no part of this story.

And then I go, oh, he's talking about a picture. So my heart dropped 10 years ago because I said I had no part of this scheme. For you, this is one of the more wild stories we've ever seen. You lived through it. When you guys saw him be a Heisman finalist, you guys were in the national championship game. You thought his girlfriend existed. And unfortunately, she passed away because of leukemia.

What do you remember about the day when you found out the girlfriend never existed? So at that point, and in the documentary, Robbie Toma, who's a wide receiver on our team and Manti's best friend, he made from high school, he and I were actually playing in what was then the Raycom Stars and Stripes game. So if anyone's unfamiliar, pick postseason All-Star games.

It goes Senior Bowl, East-West Shrine Bowl, NFLPA Bowl, and then a couple of levels down. And that's where we were playing with the Future Undrafted Free Agents of America. But we were on the bus riding back from practice. And all of a sudden, you started to get the notifications popping up from what had gone down.

And let's just say our new friends from the SEC, Big Ten, and some of the other major conferences weren't too kind with the comments they directed towards us about the girls that we thought maybe were real or not real on Notre Dame's campus. So it was sort of a blur for that week. I obviously felt for Robbie because he was so close to Manti and I'm not sure if at that point, he even had any inkling of what had been coming. So it caught us all by surprise because like you mentioned, that was something that happened at the beginning of the season. And that season was a blur in and of itself for all of us.

We had been a dead dog average 500 football team my first four years at Notre Dame. And so we were all dealing with, for the first time, everything that comes with winning at the level that we were that weekend. And that was something that certainly was a big story because of how Manti played.

But for all of us, it was something that maybe got lost in the fray along the way just because we were sympathetic to our teammates, but we were all also juggling so much more than we had ever been used to. I think the part about this story that a lot of people forget is his grandmother died also in that span of 24 hours. And then when you say, oh, he had a girlfriend, which you know no longer, you know, never existed.

She also died. Everyone really focused on the girlfriend inside the locker room because it's got so much national attention. People were inspired how he was able to play through what we thought was two deaths. Was that like a rallying cry, like a rallying call in your locker room to really, I know you guys want to go win games, but go try to help Manti out as he's on the field.

So I got to go give 100%. I wouldn't say it was a rallying cry. I think it was, you know, a point we were sympathetic. I can remember being on the practice field that week versus Michigan State when, you know, at the end of practice, coach let Manti, you know, come up in the huddle and tell us all what had happened to him. And again, we were all super sympathetic for what he had gone through. And while again, because of the circumstances, most of us did not know this girlfriend, you know, we had heard about it kind of in passing for most of us. And but, you know, we knew also like his grandmother, we had had plenty of guys with lost older relatives like that.

And it's always heartbreaking and especially for Manti and where he comes from and, you know, the culture around the island. We knew that was a big deal for him. So obviously felt super sympathetic, but it was one of those things where it was, all right, you know what, we'll want to go out, especially that week and make sure we hold our guy up in practice as he's dealing with this and new and then go from there. Mike Gola Jr. here with us.

For the last 10 years, I always said this. You're at Notre Dame, you could probably get with any girl that you want and have a relationship. How do you fall for an online relationship and develop this relationship with someone that you've never even met? But after watching the docuseries to see this plan by Renee and how elaborate it was, yes, there's still part of me that goes, how do you fall for this?

But this was so elaborate, it makes me have a lot of sympathy for Manti Tayo. Well, and I mean, you gotta also remember like back then was really early internet as far as being online on social media apps. So we were all dealing with that space for the first time in earnest. We hadn't grown up with that the way this generation has grown up around the internet.

It would be so savvy. And I mean, what the documentary laid out I think was also pretty appropriate for Manti. Where he came from to where he was from Hawaii to South Bend is a huge culture change. Everything there was different for him.

And then you have the fame that goes along with being a star player almost as soon as you step on campus for one of the biggest brand programs in the country. And so he has all of that going on. And this person presents themselves and had for a while during his college tenure as something familiar, someone familiar with how he had grown up, the things he was used to reportedly said that she knew the people that he knew.

And so you create a comfort there. And even if it's from distance, I think for someone who was so far from home, you can definitely see how, yeah, of course that could happen, especially when the stakes are low because that person's not around for you to reckon with every day. And even when he found out that she died and then they call and say she's actually still alive after this has become such a public story. And he goes, okay, I need a few things in a picture to prove that you're actually alive and how they actually got the photo of the person that they thought at the time was Lene Kukua through that, like that was wild when they revealed that photo. I'm not gonna lie, there were portions in the second half of this documentary where even I was sitting there riveted and I lived through the stuff. I'm like, oh my God, I forgot it went down like that because you're right.

The level to entity, I said it a couple times, they're like, that was before the show catfished on MTV. We really understand that to this level. So it was a major learning experience and, you know, a cautionary tale for so many people.

And at the end of it, it's a reminder. And you saw how emotional Manti was talking about his treatment after that. And we saw a lot of clips from the media back then, both the larger media, because this story had always been bigger than football, as well as the sports media who, I mean, got the clip where they're saying NFL executives want to know if Manti's gay.

Find me something in that documentary that aged more horrifically than that. It shouldn't have been okay then, but it was just a point about how everyone really started to treat the person at the center of this like they were anything but a person. And I think so often, especially in sports, because we've got distance between us and the players, us and the players who make up the product on the field, that we kind of forget to treat them with basic human decency when things hit the fan.

And you kind of got to see a little bit of the results here. And I think it's a large part of why Manti probably wanted to do this, because no matter how good he would have been in the NFL or could have been in the NFL, it was never going to erase the word association between him and being catfished. And it's also crazy, too. And obviously, I didn't live it, but you think that this person existed and then they pass away and you go through that grieving process and you find out that it was a hoax and she never actually existed.

And you find that out. And yes, he's at Notre Dame and we all know the attention that comes with it, but he knew that something was up during the Heisman availability where I'm asking him about his girlfriend that passed away, the national championship game. I don't even know how he got through that few weeks span where knowing what I'm saying isn't true. I couldn't fathom what it was like. And back then again, we were all so busy and I mean, we all weren't with him on the Heisman run and there was so much of that journey that Manti had to do alone that none of us really had an inkling that something was wrong there, because again, we were all getting ready to play a national championship for the first time at that point. We're all handling more than we could, and we're also marveling, watching. I remember being at a party, watching Manti at the Heisman ceremony, lose to Johnny Mantella, just thinking about how wild that whole journey has been, never knowing what he was carrying in that moment or in the lead up, because man, you want to talk about not knowing. We were navigating the 40 days between the last game and the BCS title for the first time as Nick Saban and company knew well the playbook for how to handle that.

There's certainly no playbook on what to do when your fake-dead girlfriend falls out of the blue before all that, so I can't imagine how his head is spinning. What else stood out to you from the docu-series, because you live through it. I'm sure a lot of this reminds you and makes you think about things differently since it's been 10 years, so what else were your interpretations from this? Yeah, I think the things that really hit hard for me were, number one, hearing them remind me of his age. Manti was 21 years old. As people lobbed all these conspiracy theories about, was he in on it?

I've always pointed out here, it wasn't nefarious. He was gullible because he was 21, and in the situation, think about all the things you would have had to predict in order to be in on this, right? Number one, having to predict that Notre Dame was going to go undefeated in 2012, which, find me the person that predicted that before the season and I'll pay you a hundred bucks.

Predict that. Predict that an off-ball linebacker would have seven interceptions and finish runner-up in a year because outside of Johnny Manziel and Colin Klein, we weren't necessarily chock-full of quarterbacks that had monster performances. All of these things that came together over the course of that year, and oh, by the way, number two, a media that apparently did not feel the need to do the simple Googling that that guy who claimed to work with Anonymous and talked about being a finder basically just typed into Google. That was another thing that aged poorly was the work done in background checking by people looking into this and then more than happily running with a story that was absolutely going to do numbers, that was absolutely going to tug at everything that we normally see drive these hero building tales in college football. No one felt the need to look beyond that. So as people point the finger at Manti, I think it's only right to also take a long look at everybody at every media outlet that covered the story without turning a discerning eye towards the source. And especially with the internet obviously being around then, it's a simple Google search to find an obituary or to find if she, you know, actually went to Stanford.

I get it. It's a story and it's like an emotional story, so you just tend to believe it. But when you see multiple stories with just the actual death of did the grandma die first or the girlfriend die first all be out of sync and all these different articles. It's crazy that no one knew that then. I was amazed because I mean again you think about it and I think about it from a vantage point now like you got that huge gap between the last game and the national championship. It's winter.

Once we get through the first couple of weeks of bowl season, we're kind of early NBA. There's not a ton of stories, so you figured someone might have gone out and said, you know what? It'd be interesting to talk to Lene's family about what this season has meant in the wake of tragedy, watching her daughter's former boyfriend go out and perform to the level he has and keep her name in the conversation. And I'm just thinking from the base level of like things we see normally happen in similar situations that didn't for some reason in this spot and allowed this, you know, whole facade to just continue to go on for as long as it did. Did you ever talk to Manti about this?

I'm assuming no, right? No, I never had a chance to because at that point after the season, we had all gone myself included. That was my last. So he was at IMG in Florida. I was out at Exos in Arizona and you know from there, we kind of went our separate ways, but I do remember listen Manti was also a kid back then who was dealing with a lot of fame early on and he was someone who I think felt the need to kind of live up to that star player moniker and I remember seeing him probably four or five years ago to game on Notre Dame sideline and just feeling I was talking to a guy who had come through that and come out on the other side, a very humble guy because of it, maybe a little bit more, you know, settled into who he was after all that. I know we've got a family now and a lot of those other things that might balance it out with time, but that was another time where I was just like, that's right, Manti was, you know, a very young man going through a situation that very few could have predicted or handled and I think that's what always just kind of stands out for me and where the majority of my empathy comes to the situation. You know, I didn't even think about this Michael Jr. until you just said it because now he has a wife and he has kids like I wonder what it was like to actually date someone when you were trying to get through all this stuff and find someone because everyone knows like you were the guy that fell for a fake girlfriend. Yeah, listen, it's it's a situation very few can put ourselves in because what it ended up becoming was not just that, but it was it was infamy like for a while when they talked about the company that Manti was put in as far as most hated athletes, it was it was infamy.

It was a scarlet letter that he was wearing for a long time. So yeah, I mean, getting back to the point where you and he talked about it a little bit, you know, seeking professional help and going through therapy because I'd imagine there's a fair amount of trust issues that come from his end, let alone from another person that who's looking at the situation wondering what kind of person they're going to be dealing with. It's kind of crazy because they had that part of the the docu series where he was one of the three most hated athletes in some poll, Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong, and him.

I never thought I hated Manti. It was just one of those scenarios where it's like, how the heck does this happen? And yeah, like you make your low hanging fruit jokes about it. Yeah, I that was one of the things that I because I believe it was in the Deadspin article that insinuated from my understanding and my recollection pretty baselessly that he might have been in on it. And I think that's one of those things that again, as we look at people and things that happen in here, while you know, the Deadspin guys were kind of a celebrated portion of this documentary, I think that part was really harmful and really toxic. And that insinuation again, I don't think at that point with a lot of basis for proof all of a sudden becomes this little bit of Tinder that you can spark and now grows the fire of people turning this from how did this happen to? Oh, well, you must have been in on it.

You must have known so therefore you are bad. Last thing I'll ask you, Mike Gola Jr. So your dad, obviously a radio legend, obviously a legend at Notre Dame.

He's hosting radio shows and this thing goes down. You played for the team. What were your guys' conversations like?

Yeah, you know, a lot of it. I mean, because we had again seen this firsthand all season long. Dad and so many of our families and that was the cool part of that season had all taken to, you know, for guys like me that were in my last year, my parents were at every home and road game. They were there all along the way. So they saw this up close.

They saw the pep rallies where everyone's wearing the wave. They saw everyone holding up fives in the crowd and just how much that story took hold over the season. And so, you know, for dad then on the other side as we're all processing, just getting our, you know, what's what by Bama in that game. Now all of a sudden kind of clicks back in and remembers like, oh yeah, this was something that had grown from such a small, you know, not a small thing, but it grown from such a unique circumstance at the beginning of this and, you know, he and I were both just in a bit of disbelief. I do remember calling him and kind of saying like, yeah, you know, I Robbie doesn't really know much as I was with him and we're not really sure what's happening.

So we were all confused. Mike Gullick Jr. does a great job. Make sure you check him out the Gojo Show podcast via DraftKings. Tell us about the the new venture that I know when we saw you at Las Vegas at the draft, you were just getting ready to launch. How's it been going? It's been great. You know, we've been really excited. It's been a chance to sort of try and stick my teeth into something new for all the TV, radio, and digital work I've done. I've never lived in the podcast space and so getting to do that with someone who was also a teammate with us at Notre Dame back then and my buddy Brandon Newman, who was a dose tackle for us, who's been around sports media for a long time. It's been a blast and man we are fired up for football season right now. It's been a long time coming. I'm going to be back out on the road with Learfield Radio doing college football games this fall and we're going to be taking people behind the curtain every step of the way. Well, that's fantastic.

Good luck. Really appreciate you joining us today for a few minutes. Thanks for having me, man. You're listening to the Zach Gelb Show. Alrighty, it is the Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. So we're talking about this Manti Teo docuseries with Mike Olick Jr. Picky, you at one point before you started to become Mr. Penn State where Mr. Notre Dame and for a while you double dipped with both football teams. How do you remember and what was your initial reaction the day that Deadspin article did come out because this is one of and will always be one of the craziest sports stories that you'll ever see. Like at the time, if you would have told me that that this was going to happen, I'd be like, what the heck are you talking about? That there's no chance of this happening because he's at Notre Dame. He's a star linebacker. You can sleep with any girl he wants on Notre Dame campus probably and he had a fake girlfriend, a long-line relationship and the girl never existed even though now I have a lot of sympathy for him after watching the docuseries because this was one elaborate hoax.

I mean, I guess utter shock like I don't know if there's an adjective that's even more exaggerated than shock, but it was just like this can't be real. Like you said, he linebacker Notre Dame and national star and it's like he really was dating someone online this whole time and then you just go back like and at the time I didn't know what catfishing was right back in 2012, but still it's like even now like you know if you if you're on a dating application like hinge or whatever your dating application is of choice, you start the relationship online and you start talking online, but eventually you say what's your number? Let's meet up. Let's go have drinks or let's go get dinner.

Let's go do some activity and then you meet the person. It's crazy and it shows kind of how good of a person Manti Teo is that he was able to care for someone so much and then the moment he hears he's in a car crash or has leukemia, you never met this person. He could have just bolted and said I'm at Notre Dame. I don't really need this person, but he actually cared for this person who in reality was a guy who had trouble finding his own sexuality and now has transitioned into becoming a girl and this was a way for Linnea to find the own safe place so he could be who she wanted to be.

When you watch this, I'm not saying it totally makes sense now and I'm not saying I totally say oh wow like I could understand why he falls for her, but part of me does say all right I could see a little bit about this and I do have a lot more sympathy from Manti Teo where he was a punchline for the last 10 years because he was the guy that told everyone his girlfriend died and then she never existed and still part of me goes well how do you have that close a relationship online, but this was one crazy crazy hoax. Like I really in terms of crimes in terms of things that are like non-violent or things like that, you just look at from this story it's one of the craziest sports stories I've ever seen. If I would explain to someone hey there's gonna be this guy at Notre Dame. First off, Notre Dame's gonna actually be good. They're gonna be great. They're gonna be the national championship game. They're gonna have a linebacker, have all those interceptions that year, be a finalist for the Heisman, and oh yeah by the way in 24 hours his grandma actually died. She's gonna die and then his girlfriend is gonna die too, but then the girlfriend when he's a finalist for the Heisman he finds out El actually may not have existed. If I would have pitched that to Hollywood they would say wow what a great movie script. That's one effed up movie script, but it may be compelling to actually watch, but that was reality like that actually happened Ryan. And I know like I I'm gonna say we lived through it because we like all were captivated because it wasn't like a great story at the time like the perseverance and right that's why when when I had a chance to talk to the Heisman I said to him Manti this is a docu series you lost your girlfriend and your grandmother in 24 hours and you never took any time off.

You're a kid. How did you persevere? How did you fight through this and be resilient? Because the story of a so inspirational. And you see like plenty of inspirational feel good stories like college game day, but sometimes it's players never heard of or schools you never you know really watch. Yeah, it's like Notre football the face of Notre football.

They are undefeated like you know when we say Texas is back or the U is back Notre Dame was back that year and they had a big game that week that everyone's watching. So you're almost like emotionally involved just because like they are so relevant. It's like it was that was still it was not true. The girlfriend part just wild. Imagine when when he finds out that this girl doesn't exist or may not exist or may not be dead and then he asked for a photo of her and the photo actually comes back and it's it's who he thought was Lene Kukua and then down the road he finds out. Oh, it was a hoax and when I calls him when she finds out there's going to be this dead spin article and goes.

I just want to apologize for everything he's like and thinking it was the cousin of of Lene Kukua and he goes apologize for what and then he goes. I just want to say I'm sorry because when I knew it was coming around the corner publicly. Let's go to Dave in Queens, New York next up on CBS Sports Radio. Dave go ahead. First of all, thank you. A big fan of you. Your father.

I'm a fan of gold senior and a fan of gold junior. That was a good interview with him. Thank you. Connection with you. Yeah, I enjoyed it and I loved your Terry Collins interview maybe a year ago.

That's when I I've never missed a show since then. What interview a year ago about Terry Collins? Yes. Yes.

Terry Collins. That was a great one. We have to dump him because he was cursing but it was awesome.

Yeah. I was on hold. I think I got to hear what he was saying or something.

I was so good but thank you all. Listen, I honestly I would have watched the Netflix thing tonight about Manta and I'm a fan of his. I like him forgetting what happened. I mean the guy to me is naive and I just wish that back then they used this platform of him like national player of the year and the Notre Dame status and I know he was embarrassed but to teach the young kids back then and even the future generation that you cannot trust online things like probably 97 to 98% of things you can't trust but we're talking about strangers like I was always taught make a long story short. You know, you don't tell people your business. Now, this whole generation now, they put their business out there.

That's how the world is but I thought his platform should have been used and it wasn't like I think kids didn't learn much and. Well, here's the bottom line, Dave and I'm up against a break. So, so I apologize. I gotta let you run.

We just have a hard out here. At the time, there was really no way that he could use his platform for good because he was just so embarrassed and he was a national punchline and at the time, we didn't really, this is the first time like I even heard of catfishing back then and that was the thing and I think now, 10 years removed, we have sympathy like Dave was just saying and thanks for the phone call, Dave. Good phone call and appreciate you listening but now, it's like you have sympathy because you go, okay, even though it still doesn't really make sense that you could fall for that and there's some good and some bad that comes with the internet, he did fall for it. He did have a genuine care and unfortunately, the person just never existed but to see afterwards, the mental struggle, I had to deal with it and how the first three years playing the NFL, he would just be numb. Man, my heart part of it did break from Anti-Tayo during the docuseries last night. Tory Holt joins us next.