Sin: I’ll Stop When I’m Ready: John Elmore

I'm staring through the windshield, just so angry. And she says, I just wish we wouldn't fight for the rest of our lives. And in that moment, I feel like the Lord said to me, Hey, I freed you from alcoholism. I can free you from arguing with your wife. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com.

This is Family Life Today. So when I gave my life to Christ in college and started really reading the Bible for the first time, because I really wasn't much of a Bible. I didn't know it. I was biblically illiterate. And so now I'm finding out a man of God is a man of the Word.

So I started reading the Bible. There's a passage I came across that I could not believe was in the Bible. I have no idea where you're going with this. You don't know where I'm going with it.

No. I mean, I remember reading it and going, a guy who wrote the Bible writes this? It was Romans 7.

Oh, yeah. And the apostle Paul writes, For I do not understand my own actions, for I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Romans 7, 15. I'm like, what?

Because I had experienced that. I'm like, there's no way a guy that close to God, this is apostle Paul. It's like, you know, the guy we all want to become. And he goes on to say, I have the desire to do what's right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. And I'm like, oh my goodness, how in the world is this guy describing so clearly and specifically the same struggle that I have? In fact, it's one of the reasons I love the word of God, because it's so honest. And so practical to our everyday lives and what we're going through. Yeah, and it doesn't hide the struggle. It says, no, I know the struggle. And by the way, I haven't read the rest of the passage, but he does lead you to what we want to talk about today is where do you find victory in the struggle? So we've got the perfect guy to talk about this with us again. John Elmore is back. Welcome to Family Life Today, John. Love being here with you all.

Thanks for the invitation. I mean, you have obviously, we've talked about it so far this week. You've walked through a similar struggle with alcohol. You direct a ministry at Watermark Church in Dallas to thousands.

And I mean literally 1200 or so a week on Monday nights in a recovery program who obviously have read Romans 7. You've walked through this. You're a father. You're a husband.

You've got kids. You have this dynamic ministry. You've written a book called Freedom Starts Today. Overcoming Struggles and Addictions One Day at a Time. So we've already talked quite a bit about this struggle. And I would add too, Dave, if you haven't listened to our first conversations where John shared his story of overcoming, of really Jesus overcoming addictions, I would really recommend that you listen to those discussions because it was a holy moment in here where we're all crying.

John was on his knees as we prayed and it was pretty remarkable to me because it still showed me your need for Jesus, your love for Jesus of really setting you free. So I'd really say go back and listen to that. Yeah. And then jump right in right now because here we are. I know people are listening who literally are living Romans 7. I want to do the right thing. I feel like I can't.

I don't even have the power to do it. John, you've been there. You walk with people every week. Who maybe feel hopeless too in it. Right. How do you get to victory? How do we win over the struggle? Yep.

Such a good question. And it's one everybody's asking because whether or not they've read Romans 7, they have lived Romans 7. Everyone has known that experience. Like, I don't want to do this anymore. And yet I keep going back to it. Like, what is this cycle that I'm in that I hate and yet I keep returning to? And here's the crazy thing.

It's not just localized to like Paul writing to the Romans and we read it as the Bible. It is the common experience of all of mankind. So Forbes and Inc did the study on New Year's resolutions.

I was reading about it this year because it's so fascinating to me. And they said, okay, there's New Year's resolutions. Everybody has this thing in their life. Maybe it's overeating. Maybe it's not working out.

Maybe it's unhealthy lifestyle, whatever it may be, spending too much. And they know something's wrong. They want it out of their life. They make a resolution, meaning they go public with it.

They put it on social media. They've told everyone, you know, they throw out half their pantry. They change their wardrobe, whatever it may be. They get off their dating apps.

You're kind of describing me right now, John. You're like, what's happening? They make all these like macro changes and two and a half weeks later on January 19th, 90% of people have already quit. So much so they call it National Quitting Day. Like, how funny is that?

We make this like outcry. I'm done with this. I'm making a huge change.

This is your new me. And on January 19th, two and a half weeks later, they've all quit. And so they do a follow-up study because they're like, what is going on? People know something shouldn't be in their life.

They make a declaration and they return to it two and a half weeks later. Follow-up study revealed far and away, greatest reason, we don't have enough willpower. The psychologist and sociologist ascending the mountain of knowledge only to find the theologian's already sitting there and it's like, of course you don't have enough willpower. You don't have willpower over sin's power. That's the Holy Spirit's job. It's not your job to war against sin. You have no ability to fight sin. That is the Spirit's job. It's Romans 8, 13, where he says, if you live according to the flesh, you'll die.

You do what you want to do, it's not going to go well. You'll die. But, he says, he never leaves us there. I love that about God. He says, but if by the Spirit, he is the means you put to death the deeds of the flesh, you'll live. We're told in 1 Peter 1, the father adopts, we're sprinkled, have a cleansing by the son, and then the Spirit's job is the sanctifier, the one who makes us holy. He's the one who takes us from justification all the way through glorification. He gets that big lifelong job of sanctification. It's his job.

And yet we try. It's like, well, I think that's my job. It's like, no, that's not your job.

You can't, you don't have the willpower, the gumption, the white knuckles, the anything. That is the Spirit's role. And this is really fascinating too. So Owen talks about the negative work of the Spirit. And when I first read this in Mortification of the Flesh, I was like, wait, what? Negative work of the Holy Spirit? Like that must be a wrong translation because it's 400 years old.

Like you just said something way out of bounds. That's blasphemous. Nothing God does. God the Spirit is negative. What he says is, is we always focus on the positive work of the Holy Spirit, the love, joy, peace, patience, kindness. We've got that memorized as a five-year-old and we have altogether neglected the negative work of the Holy Spirit. The negative work of the Holy Spirit is that he is the sin killer.

It's his job. And we wrestle for all our lives trying to kill sin and we are getting killed. And our wives and spouses and children are looking at us like, don't you know this is wrong? Why don't you just stop?

Just stop looking at porn. Just stop hurting us. Just stop being passive, raising your voice, overeating, just stop. And we're trying, but we can't and we fail because it's the Spirit's job. So what do we do?

We've got to bring God into the fight. I have like this eating thing is hard. My numbers, my cholesterol is bad and they're like, hey, you just stop eating these certain things and I feel more compelled to go to it now than ever before. And so I think maybe it's not a huge addiction, but it's anything that's controlling us or our flesh is controlling us. I think everybody, when they hear something like this, they're like, oh, my nephew needs that. My spouse needs that.

I have sick needles in my arms and I'm not giving over to porn. It's like, well, we've all got our thing that we run to. In 1 John, the apostle John writes to the church, he's writing to them, he says little children and all this.

He's like very affectionate terms. It's a letter to the church. The very last verse. It's not like greet Silvius or whoever, you know, and may the Lord bless you.

It's not. The ending of it says, little children, keep yourselves from idols because all of us daily, as Calvin wrote, a heart is an idol factory, like we're all going to have these ditches, these things that we run to. And maybe they aren't as insidious socially, but they're every bit insidious to the holiness of God. And so as Owen said, be killing sin or it will be killing you. How? Because obviously there's part of me going, okay, I have the whole power of the Holy Spirit. You do. The sin killer.

The sin killer. I've experienced that. And yet there's moments of weakness where it's almost like, you know, Paul wrote in Philippians, work out your salvation and fear and trembling. So there's a part of working. I mean, it's, it's all done by, by the blood of Christ and the power of spirit, but there's our side. We have to take a step. Yes.

How do you defeat an eating addiction? You don't just go, Oh, God did it. He did. Right. But what is my participation? What is my working that out?

So tell us how to, how to work it out. When I was freed from alcoholism, probably 10 years sober, married to Laura, we're on a date night and we had not made it two blocks from our house. And we're already in a fight. You know, we've got small children, which pressure reveals problems. So we've got kids screaming diapers flying.

I mean, it's just a mess. And here we are on our date night. We're going to Chili's to split a meal cause I'm a pastor and we go big and not two blocks away.

We're sitting at the light at water view and Campbell. And I'm staring through the windshield, just so angry. And she says, I just wish we wouldn't fight for the rest of our lives. And I said, yeah, me too, except you're in this marriage.

No, I didn't say that. I thought it. It was a mental statement, but I'm just like, but you're here.

Like we can't. And in that moment, I feel like the Lord said to me, Hey, I freed you from alcoholism. I can free you from arguing with your wife if you'll just ask and it's bringing God into the fight.

And so I started doing what I did 15 years prior, getting on my knees every day, asking God to keep me sober. But this time it was God, keep me from fighting with Laura. She's your daughter. She's my wife, my sister in Christ of whom one portion with the spirit, one flesh, like this is not your will.

So free us. And that first year we probably fought three times, which single people are like, ha, see, it didn't work. Married people are like, it's a miracle, oh my goodness. Three times yesterday. You mean three times the whole year. Three times in a whole year. And it was a miracle.

And halfway through the year, Laura's like, have you noticed we don't fight anymore? And I hadn't told her what I was doing, that I was seeking daily repentance, which is what it is. It's not daily sobriety.

It's daily repenting. You know, turning from sin by turning towards Christ that I was like daily being like Lord today by your strength, don't let me fight with Laura. And we didn't. And she was like, that's amazing. We haven't fought. I was like, well, I need to tell you something. And what's crazy is I'm the only one that changed anything.

She didn't change anything. Which squarely places the blame on me for the fighting. But with one spouse's efforts, look what can happen. And you did it every single day. Yeah.

That's really big. So you're really going to God, asking God to be the sin killer in your life. You're repenting every day. I don't believe there's any other way. Like, I mean, I've tried and I fall headlong into sin. There's just no other way. Right now it needs to be daily repentance from being short with my kids.

Like that's the one that's with kids that are 7, 5, and 3, I just, man, they own me. I don't want anybody to miss this. You didn't do what I would probably do. If we're fighting and I want God to help us with fighting, I would say, God change her. Change Ann.

Yes. She can't see my perspective. She always brings up stuff. It's a hard thing to look in the mirror and say, this isn't her fault problem. Yeah. Of course she's got her thing, but you said God changed me.

Well, there was about seven years of that. Yeah. Like this woman you gave me, you know, it's Adam to Eve. Right. It's her fault.

It's like, no, why don't you seek repentance and see what happens? Because we're talking about spouses. What's your wife's name? Laura. So let's talk about Laura a little bit and tell us how did you meet, because there's a story behind that as well. I had been married before my wife fell into a relationship with one of my friends.

They got married. And so here I am in seminary as a couple of years sober, recovering alcoholic, divorced at like 33, unemployed, in school. I mean, this is not the whole like, Hey dad, I met a man today. Let me tell you who he is. Well, he's divorced and an alcoholic. He's not working.

And I mean, it's just not a great picture. And so I am speaking out at Pine Cove camps in Texas, Christian sport camp, and I'm out there speaking at their kind of ministry training program for a few days. And I get home to the guy who oversees all the camps.

I'm staying with them, one of my best friends and I walk in, I'm just going to go to my bedroom and prep for the next day. And he says, Hey, come in here and meet the babysitter. I'm like, what in the world? Like I don't want to meet your 13 year old neighborhood girl who watches your kids. Like, I don't have time for that.

I'm here to teach. Like I was like, all right. I walk around the corner and this girl woman is laying on the couch and she kind of pops up and looks at me during headlights and I'm like, Oh wow, you're not the neighborhood girl. And we proceeded to talk for like two hours.

Two hours. She must've been stunning. She went from, I don't want to meet her too. Let's talk for two hours.

She's so full of joy, so happy, so engaging, so sweet. And at this point in my life, I'm like, who in their right mind is going to even want a date with me, let alone marriage. Like I'm just all these lies. Because you're not going to hide your past either. No, no.

I'll tell anybody who will listen what Jesus saved me from. So it's out there. And the next day we're talking and we're having coffee and we're talking that night and she all of a sudden she gets really quiet and she's like, I can't believe this. It's like, what? What? I can't believe this.

What? You're the guy. What guy? I can't believe this. You're the guy.

What guy? What are you talking about? And she just goes silent. And I'm like, Oh, this is when she put it all together. She knows. Divorced alcoholic. All right. Well, You're the guy I never wanted to marry.

I wish you the best. Like she, she knows who I am. She was like, where do you go to church?

I was like, Northwest Bible. It's like, Oh, my aunt and uncle go there. Yep.

You're the guy. I'm like, what are you talking about? And she's like, well, do you know Tom and Laura Gilbert? And I'm like, I've had Thanksgiving dinner with them. She's like, they're my aunt and uncle. I was like, Oh no, because they know my story.

Yeah. She says, I know your whole story. I'm not going anywhere.

And just like tangible grace. Her next question was, do you still talk to your ex wife? And I said, no, I shared the gospel with her a few times, but that wouldn't be appropriate.

She's married with kids. I was like, wow, you really do know everything. Don't you? And she's like, I do. And I think it's amazing what Jesus has done. And I don't like you less because of your past. I like you more because of what Jesus did and just like started undoing and unraveling all these lies of, and that wasn't even for marriage, right? That's just like for a second date.

But what's crazy is that those were such lies in my mind. What God had done is her aunt and uncle for like probably two years had been telling her, there's this guy in Dallas. We want you to meet him. And she's like, I don't want to be set up.

And they're like, no, no, you need to meet him. He has this crazy God story. And so they had, but knowing to them, they were like helping pave the road and her heart and mind to one day meet a divorced alcoholic, uh, has told the whole story so that when she would meet me, it wasn't like, wait, what? No, I'm out. Jesus redeems our past and he, he paves highways through seas.

And that was one that he just like split open and made away. So talk about, you know, like her role and anybody's role in a person that would get back to where we were saying, okay, God brought you a partner and some of us have partners, some of us don't, but we all want a road to victory. You know, this struggle we started with, uh, I can't do what I want to do. We have the Holy Spirit in our lives, but we got to take some steps. So walk us through the recovery that you've been through and that you help others through.

Yeah. Tell people, if you want to be forgiven, confess to God. If you want to be healed, confess to others. First John one nine and James five 16, there's no way around it. And so for healing sake, and this is like super simple and I'm not, I'm not out to sell books like God's provided for me.

So here it is free. You don't have to buy the book is act. You just act and a is ask God, you bring God into the fight. That's Romans eight 13 where you, by the power of the Holy Spirit, you invite him to the fight because he's the sin killer. He's the one that wars against sin.

So you just ask him and he says, Jesus says elsewhere, he doesn't hear us because of our many words. Don't keep up these empty phrases. Just be like, God, I'm addicted to porn. Will you help me? Will you free me from it? And not just once and for all. We're not talking about walking the aisle and somebody like casting it out of demon of drunkenness.

That's stupid. This is a daily walk with God of like, Hey God, I have a struggle today. Will you free me today? Every day.

Yes. Ask him every day. And I recommend you do that in a position of humility. So on your knees, if you can, if you can't physical limitations, raise your hands. My kids, when they come up to me, their hands are up. They're helpless, especially my three year old and somewhere along the way we stopped doing that. And so God reminds us men with holy hands lifted high praying and you see it all throughout the Psalms and you see people on their knees praying.

So I recommend doing that. It just helps. He made his body, mind and soul.

So when you engage your body with where your mind and spirit are, I think it's really beneficial. And John, you've been sober for how many years? 15 and a half years, but really I would, sometimes I say like since about 6 AM cause really it's just daily. Every single day.

Yeah. So I'm not asking him to keep me sober today anymore because I just like, it's not a strong temptation pull in my life. Sometimes it is if I'm alone, but it is a daily surrender. Every day I start on my knees. And sometimes I'll like, because a kid throws up and I start the day that way, I'm cleaning up vomit instead of, you know, and then like halfway through the day I'm like, Oh, I never knelt.

I like shut my office door, kneel down. So I'll tell you this much, I can tell if I miss, like something's off in me where I've not like mentally, spiritually gotten into a place of surrender. So A is ask. Let me ask you this. Have you ever talked to anybody that said, I'm too embarrassed, I'm too unworthy to ask God for help.

I killed him so badly. I mean, is that ever a problem? Because I mean, that's identity. That's understanding that they are forgiven, but I think that's something sometimes that we're afraid.

Yeah. That's a wise pastor asking that question because I don't know how many times I've heard, but I'm just not worthy. And my response is, you're not, and God loves you so much in our unworthiness. Like there's nothing we could do to make ourselves worthy. And if you wait until you're worthy, you're going to be waiting a really long time, but he comes to us. That's his only choice.

So I tell people this a lot. I say like Jesus and Jericho, like what's he doing there? It's a God forsaken city. Joshua says, whoever rebuilds this, you'll do so at the cost of your children. And then they rebuild it. And then Jesus goes to Jericho and you think like, Oh, he's about to like, tell those people what's up.

They shouldn't have rebuilt their city. And instead he goes to the worst person in the whole city. He goes to the chief tax collector. He seeks out the one of his own people that should have known better and didn't. And it says, and he was rich. Like he just goes to the worst and the worst city.

And why, and how does this relate to like, what if someone doesn't feel unworthy? That's the only kind of person that God can go to is unworthy people in sin. And yet he does like, that's where Jesus set his sights is like, I got to go to Jericho to meet Zacchaeus. And church history tells us he went on to become the Bishop of Caesarea, like pastor of her whole city.

Yeah. Think about the woman at the well in John four. He goes out of his way to go to Caesarea, to talk to her, who will become the great evangelist. I mean, obviously what you're getting at is the heart of God revealed through the heart of Jesus is, man, when you feel unworthy and you come to him, even in your unworthiness, he is jumping up and down. Like finally we can do something. And in fact, I would say unworthiness is such a healthier position. He says he opposes the proud, which would be worthy. I'm worthy. I'm worthy.

I deserve your attention. Thank God. I'm not like that, man. I tithe. I pray.

I whatever. He's like, well, the one who beat his chest and said, God have mercy on me, a sinner. He went home justified. So he gives grace to the humble. So unworthiness is actually a really healthy heart condition and yes, you are altogether unworthy and he loves you all the more.

It's beautiful. So A is ask God to help. C is commit. I think we can often have a reactive confession of sin. Like I'll tell you if and when my sin gets bad enough, big enough. I'll bring it into the light if ever, but this now is a proactive commitment. So rather than telling you if and when I sin, I'm going to decide in advance, I'm going to commit. That's the C commit for the next 24 hours to not give into my thing, whether that's food, porn, controlled, nagging, whatever it may be, giving myself away to guys, passivity. I commit by God's strength.

That's really important. That's the A by God's strength for the next 24 hours. I'm not going to quit forever. Don't focus on forever. Focus on today, daily bread, seek first his kingdom and his righteousness today. Don't worry about tomorrow.

Tomorrow's got enough worries of its own. What you're doing is committing to another person. Like I'm going to tell Dave, Hey Dave, commit to you by God's strength that I will not be short with my kids for the next 24 hours. And now we're going to go for the T cause this is act, ask God commit and then T talk or text.

However you want to phrase it. If you want to call, probably not meet in person, that would be a lot of meetings or text. I'm going to follow up with you this time tomorrow. I'm going to set an alarm on my phone, you know, for three 15 and I'm going to let you know how I did in 24 hours.

If I was free from being short and sharp and harsh with my kids for the last 24 hours. And if I fell, your response is to pray for me, James five 16, you're going to, you're going to say, Hey man, thank you for confessing. You want to re up?

You want to go another 24 hours? Yes, of course. I want to turn from this Proverbs 28, 13, whoever conceals the sin will not prosper. Whoever confesses and renounces will find mercy. So yes, I want to fall forward seven times and rise again. Or I call and say, yeah, I was free from being harsh and sharp with my kids and awesome. Praise God. Let's thank the Lord.

Do you want to go another 24 hours? And so we then start walking daily. And again, this is not some Christian life hack. That's Hebrews three 13 where it says, encourage one another daily so that why, why do we need to encourage each other daily? Isn't Sunday enough? Isn't women's Bible study on Wednesday enough?

No, every single day. Why God? So that you will not be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin every single day. You're going to be hardened by sin unless you have a daily encouragement with a brother, sister in Christ. And so that act, ask God, commit for 24 hours, not for life for 24 hours. People can't quit porn for life or they already would have, but I was struggling with drinking.

Doctors would be like, you know, you need to quit drinking. I'm like, Oh, that's profound. Brilliant.

Thanks for the help. Yes, of course. I don't know how. Do it for one day, 24 hours, daily bread, and then talk, text, that's the act follow up with someone the next day. And that requires friendship. It requires accountability.

And so how do people get that? I'm thinking, especially sometimes you feel so isolated, you're living in so much shame. What would your first steps be in encouraging someone to find that person or find a few people? I would start with your church and if they say, well, I can't tell my church cause then my church would know. Well, that's a whole bigger problem if you can't tell your church. And so be the first one. And if you get mocked because of your sin, then widen the circle and say to your groups, pastor, whoever it is like, Hey, I brought this in a light.

It resulted in gossip, like work through it. Don't go find another church. Don't church shop.

That's not right. Like be the change. Bring health. Like repentance is a thing that catches fire.

Like God will use it. And if you just keep bouncing and running or I'll tell my overeaters anonymous group, it's like, no, no, these are scriptural instructions for the church. So I would say find a brother, sister in Christ.

I would do same gender just because of everything that could happen there. I would say not with your spouse, just because your spouse may be one of the ones that you're sending the greatest against like walk with a brother in arms. I think a lot of times with guys, they'll be like, they'll just honestly kind of want to unpack their guilt with their wife and they should, they have sinned against their wife. They should ask their wife for forgiveness. They have withheld themselves from their spouse as first Corinthians seven says not to. So they do need to ask for forgiveness, but I think sometimes you need a brother who's going to exhort you, admonish you, rebuke you, encourage you all the different ways that scripture instructs and for a sister in Christ, it could be spouse for different couples who are different maturity levels.

And if a spouse is ready to probably own mutually, there's different dynamics, but I'd say a brother or sister in Christ. Yeah, and I would just, man, it's been so helpful because I learned what you said earlier years ago, and I never understood it, that when you confess to God, you receive forgiveness. When you confess to a brother or a woman confesses to a sister, you receive healing. And I was always like, how are you healed? God's the healer. But there's a healing that happens again. We said earlier, when you bring something out of the dark into the light in community with somebody you can trust, the healing starts.

And again, it doesn't mean you never struggle with this again. It's not this demon is gone, but it's this beautiful step toward healing. It just shows how God made us to need one another. It's the body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12, where it says like, you can't say to another part of the body, I don't need you. Like we are all inextricably intertwined temple in which God dwells. And I think we play this game, it's like, I confessed to God, I'm forgiven, I got it.

And then we struggle. I confessed to God, I'm forgiven. And it's like, no, it's so scary, isn't it, to tell a brother? And I'll never forget the day I told three of my best friends the year we started our church that I was struggling with porn and I had no idea. But in that moment, healing started. It was finally out to some people that I was, they're my best friends and I'm still scared to death telling them because they don't know.

And I thought I would get, are you kidding me, dude? They all looked at me and said, thanks for sharing. We will walk with you. And here I am, 30 years later, living a different life because there was healing in that moment.

That was continual healing. And again, I would just say, if you're listening and nobody knows, you gotta tell somebody. And it isn't send an email to your pastor, unless you're really good friends with them.

You need to text or call somebody that you know that will walk with you, that you can ACT with. I think one of the things too is to get John's book, Freedom Starts Today, because it's a 90-day devotional. We could all read it, honestly, and it would help us. But John, thank you for being here. And I'm wondering, would you just pray for our listeners to close us?

And I think it'd be great. Father, thank you so much for, brothers and sisters in Christ, you've adopted by the blood of Jesus, now indwelled by the Spirit, and Lord, we hate sin, we love you, and yet we return to that which we hate. And so I ask for freedom, I pray, Lord, that you would do what only the Spirit can do, that you would kill sin in us as we walk together, encouraging one another daily, and that we would take action, as Dave and Anne have rightly said, that this isn't just something we're listening to as like a daily nourishment, but that this would be actionable. You say in your word, do not just be hearers, but doers. And so Lord, may we employ what you've made so clear in the scripture to be free from sin. Lord, may repentance be the root of revival, so that at your coming, you will find the bride of Christ, spotless, without wrinkle or blemish. We love you in the mighty name of Jesus, amen.

Amen. I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to Dave and Anne Wilson with John Elmore on Family Life Today. It's been a phenomenally poignant show today, and the previous two days that John has been with us, and it's been super helpful for me personally, and I hope it's been helpful for you as well. John Elmore has written a book called Freedom Starts Today, Overcoming Struggles and Addictions One Day at a Time. This is a powerful message of John's story, overcoming addiction, but then also his story being a reflection of not only the way that Jesus has worked in his life, but also an opportunity for him to disciple you through his words and help you overcome your struggles and addictions as well. So if that's you or you know someone who's struggling with addiction, this book can be our gift to you when you partner with us today. You can simply go online to get your copy at familylifetoday.com, click on the donate now button at the top of the page, or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again, the number is 800, F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. Or you can feel free to drop us a donation in the mail if you'd like.

Our address is Family Life, 100 Lakehart Drive, Orlando, Florida, 32832. And if you do drop us something in the mail, just make sure you request John Elmore's Freedom Starts Today. If you know anyone who needs to hear conversations like today's, would you share it from wherever you get your podcasts? And while you're there, you can really help others learn about family life today by leaving us a review.

Now coming up next week, what are some practical strategies to cope with stress and nurture healthy parent-child relationships? Well, Cissy Goff is going to be joining Dave and Ann Wilson to talk about just that. That's next week. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.