EVEN IF

This is Sam from the Mask on Journey Podcast, and our goal with the podcast has helped you to try to find your way in this difficult world. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just seconds. Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening and choosing the Truth Podcast Network. Events and theology all come together. And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host.

Stu Epperson here. I couldn't be more excited about our guest. This guy is a rising star, author, Christian counselor, podcaster. He is a great friend, loves Jesus. He's written a new book. We are going to talk to author Zach Clinton in just a second. We are going to spend the last half of the show today talking about a pastor in Australia who is preaching, and in the middle of his sermon, a man gets up with a knife and starts stabbing him. Crazy. It's all over now.

It's all over YouTube. The pastor's in critical condition. How would you respond to that situation right there in real time in your church if it was going on? We have rioters burning the American flag, burning the Israeli flag, all over New York City.

One giant patch of them was just outside my daughter's apartment. She's like calling us saying, should I try to go get something to eat? This is like DoorDash might turn into DoorFlash. It's crazy. And they're blocking traffic. Imagine you're on your way to the hospital. Your wife is in labor. You're in the car, and you're trying to go across the Brooklyn Bridge. And there's these hundreds and hundreds of hostages yelling out expletives, death to America.

Kind of like, why are you here if you're yelling that? Death to Israel. So we're going to cover some of this today and continue all week long as war has broken out in Iran, funded by our own government, sadly, indirectly is bombing Israel and the international response to that. But right now, even if, what a name of a book, and Zach Clinton is going to tell us why he wrote this book.

It's in pre-sales, and people are dialing it up right now, even before it hits the store. Zach Clinton, what a privilege, my friend, to have you on Truth Talk Live. Stu, my friend, thank you so much just for the opportunity. I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Well, even if things go crazy here, you're still going to be encouraging people to grow in Christ with this new book, is that correct? Absolutely, sir.

Even If is a book and really a message to God's place to my heart. Several years ago, it's out of one of my favorite passages of scripture found in Daniel chapter three, where three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, they displayed religious fidelity, integrity, and faith beyond measure. They were approached by King Nebuchadnezzar, who was the king of Babylon back in those days.

He, and I always like to say his brown nosing fan club, came up with this decree that they were going to make a statue or an image of gold, 90 feet tall and nine feet wide. And at the sound of music, everyone was supposed to worship their gods and bow down to the image that they had created, except for three men stood to stand rather than compromise. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, in this kind of conversation with King Nebuchadnezzar, I love how they approach him where he calls them and he says, Hey guys, you know, I hear you're not obeying, you're not being obedient to the decree.

I'll give you one more chance at the sound of music. If you choose to worship my God in the image I set up before you, very good. But if not, I'm about to throw you into a burning hot fiery furnace. And so here are these three men with a death sentence awaiting them if they choose not to compromise, but they don't. And they actually respond by saying, King Nebuchadnezzar, you actually don't even have the right to approach us about this matter.

Or in other words, we've already made up our mind. Then they give us this three tiered prayer, Stu. Not only do we believe that our God is able, but number two, we believe that our God will deliver us from your majesty's hand.

But with all due respecting, even if he does not, we will not bow down and worship your God or the image you've set up before us. That's kind of the message, the heartbeat of even if understanding, Stu, that pain, you know, pressure is inevitable in this life, but it's all about how we view that pain and also how we respond to it every day. That's tremendous. You know, it's interesting. Here you have these three Hebrews, and there was a fourth one in the fire.

We know that, right? And you have this great story, and I love the fact you're writing a book about this. I'm so encouraged. You've written a book. It's coming out, Even If is the book. The author is Dr. Zach Clinton, who's our special guest today on Truth Talk Live. You think about what they faced. They faced potential death for standing up for what God told them, not what the king told them, not what policy or politics or social media or the thing of the day, the worshippers of Baal and the false prophets. And you have this other pastor in Australia who stood up on the Word of God. He says, I mean, the sermon's there.

I could not believe. You know, our mutual friend Travis Johnson was preaching Sunday morning on martyrdom and on Fox's Book of Martyrs and on honoring the persecuted church. And while he's preaching, this other guy's preaching somewhere in Australia, and he kept preaching, and a guy came up and started stabbing him. And I thought about how bold are we, whether you're a pastor in a pulpit or you're just a dude on the ball field. You counsel all these ball players. You gave the great, powerful, you gave the great devo to the Liberty football team when they went into their bowl game.

You encourage the Carolina University team. You came down here, Baller Nation's in the house right now. Baller Nation, give a shout out to Zach. We got a special treat for you.

Give a shout out to Zach right there in that mic. Tell him you're here. He wants to know. He wants to hear you on the radio. Go ahead. Say hello to him.

Look at it right there. What's up, Zach? How are you doing? John Perry, Baller Nation.

Good to hear from you, my friend. When he heard you were on the show, he was here. His whole caravan. And he brought with him all his hundreds of millions of social media followers.

You know, this guy's still over the rim, and you and I are just feeding him the pill, and he's doing his thing. But Zach Clinton, this book, Even If, conjures up a bit of courage and a bit of hope, doesn't it, in this hopeless day where the enemy doesn't just disagree with us. The enemy of Christ, like, wants to kill us, like this pastor, like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. It's so true, Stu, and you know, I think of Acts chapter 5, when the apostles, right, they were actually going around, they were preaching the goodness of the gospel, but you know, the Pharisees took them into the Sanhedrin because they just said, you know, we're not going to allow that to happen any longer, but then they found no, in a sense, cause of punishment for them, but they chose to beat them, to flog them anyways, but then it says that the apostles left rejoicing, that they were even considered worthy of suffering for the name of the Lord, and I think, you know, even if that's the mentality, the mindset, the faith, the strength and endurance, I say of those who are built different, that's the name of my podcast, Individuals, that I think of built different, have a little bit of difference about them in culture and society today, but I often think of a story that I share in the book, actually up front in the first chapter, it's of a dear friend of mine, Dr. Rick Rigsby. Dr. Rick Rigsby had to watch his late wife Trina battle breast cancer for years, eventually to the point of finding himself at the foot of her casket, just on his knees, weeping out to God after the Lord had called her home, and I think of just individuals that I've walked alongside of clients that I see that are going through painful experiences in life, and there he was, crying and weeping, and his dad came up and consoled him, and then taught him a lesson that I will never forget as I heard that. His dad looked at him and said, son, when he said, dad, I feel hopeless, he said, son, you can't lose something that God gave you. You haven't lost hope, you've simply lost perspective.

That's powerful. I would dare to say, Stu, that there's people out there today that have simply lost purpose. Hold on, more with Zach Clinton, how you can get this book and a caller's on the line on Truth Talk Live, hang on. Truth Talk Live! You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com I mean, there you are preaching, preaching the gospel, and someone walks up, not to take communion, not to bring a tithe or an offering, or to bow at the altar and receive the Lord.

They walk up with a knife and start stabbing you. That's what happens all over YouTube, if you haven't seen it, we need to put it at our site. Get everyone to truthnetwork.com. There's a lot of other cool things at our site, like this free truth app you can download. And final push this week for Bibles, or actually radios, that teach the Bible for Africa. We're helping Trans World Radio raise money.

If you please consider a gift of any amount, just go to truthnetwork.com, click on the big link. Africa needs Jesus. Thank you, Trans World Radio.

We literally are not even $500 away from hitting that goal. We may even keep promoting it, because it's such a valuable thing. So many people in Africa listen to the radio, they are not even literate in many countries.

They can't read or write, but they can get this wind-up radio and listen to great Bible teaching, like you're hearing on the Truth Network, like programs like Life, Love, and Family, with Dr. Tim Clinton, Dr. Zach Clinton, his son, two men of God, who've written a lot of books together. But Zach, you just wrote a cool book, man, and it's coming out very, very soon. We've got a caller on the line. Now, the book's not, I don't think the book is, what if? I don't think that's the title of the book, is it?

I'm trying to remember it. Let's see, what is it? It's not, let's see, only if.

No, it's right out of Daniel 3. It's, what is it, Zach, help me out now. Even if. Even if. I love it. And tell everyone real quick why that, just those two words are so important.

Real quick, Zach, and then we'll take this call. They're so important, Stu, because there's a difference between what if, only if, and even if, like you said. What if, you know, a lot of people allow the fear of what if to make them settle for what is. They live in what we like to call analysis paralysis, so afraid of tomorrow that they're crippled in there today. But then there's some only if people, right, that are very result-driven, result-oriented. They'll do it only if it's comfortable, only if it's convenient, leads to a contingent faith. But we don't want comfortable, we don't want complacent, we don't want contingent. So then even if, Stu, even if it hurts, even if it's hard, even if I don't get out of life what I was hoping, expecting, praying, or preparing to get out of it, I'm going to stay true to my faith, to my family, to my friends, and to the standard within me, rather than succumbing to the expectations, opinions, or circumstances around me.

Even if changes everything. Wow. I love it. And that's the name of his new book. That's Dr. Zach Clinton. And he, he's going to, you're going to hear more and more from him on this show. You've heard him on my podcast, you've heard him on my weekend show, our national show.

You're going to hear him and his dad just blowing the ratings out the roof on their amazing show, Life, Love, Faith, and Family, which is at one place, it's online, it's going to be on some Truth Network stations. Zach, I may have to put you in the hot seat. I think you'd be a great host. Would you ever brave the Truth Talk Live chair and host this program?

You could even sit in Lynchburg, Virginia and do it. Stu, I would absolutely love it. I just mentioned Life, Love, Faith, and Family, something that I absolutely love hosting alongside of my dad, like you said on Salem, one place on Sirius XM.

Hopefully we'll be with you guys, you know, before long. Absolutely, I love it. What's, wait, wait, wait, what's that sound? Balder Nation's in the studio, another big Zach Clinton fan and friend. Balder Nation, you hear that sound? You hear what that sound is? That's the sound of the ratings going up, because when this guy gets, hey, listen, this guy gets going. Friends, listen, all humor aside, read books by godly men like Zach Clinton, like Tim Clinton.

Read books by godly men who are going to bring the truth to this incredibly delicate and important space of mental health, and pointing people to the only solution. That's the Lord Jesus Christ. I mean, the mental trauma on Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego must have been pretty hot, no pun intended. You know, they're about to be thrown to their death there, and Zach writes a whole book about it called Even If. We're going to have him tell us how to pre-order that book. First, let's go to Buck in Ohio. Sir, welcome to Truth Talk Live 106.5 FM. Jump on the air with us, sir. Hey, that's exactly the radio station I'm listening to, and I absolutely adore it, Stu, so thanks to big Stu for starting it, because you're reaping fruit because of his service to the kingdom. Brother Zach, you've got my attention. Thank you for giving me the clip notes when Stu asked you what is the book about, and you said it so eloquently, sir.

Now, let me ask you something. I just got a devastating call, and I'll bet there's other people out listening to Truth Talk Live that can possibly, more than I would hate to say, guys, can identify with. A dear friend of mine, I call him. Hey, Tom, how you doing? He says, Bussman, my son just killed himself.

He was in his 30s there, Zach. So I'll take the answer off air, brother, but what will you, how can you help counsel some grieving Christians out here? I mean, my friend Tom's heart is broken. I know he's probably questioning the sins of God right now.

So how does even if, how can we utilize even if in this kind of situation, and I'll take the answer off the air. Love you guys, love you, Stu. Thanks for letting me call in.

Love you guys. Okay, yeah, he puts it right into it, doesn't he, Zach? Great question, thank you for your call, sir. Zach, what do you say to a parent out there, someone struggling with that right now? You know, first and foremost, I'm grateful for the question and the concern from Buck and his concern to call in and ask about his friend. You know, from a mental health perspective, as I get the opportunity of counseling and serving in this field, it's something that we face a lot.

And it's incredibly heartbreaking, just the challenges I think we find ourselves in a mental health disaster. But for somebody in that situation, for Buck's friend, something that I would probably recommend in a moment like that is that your presence is more important than your perspective. As my friend Catherine Wolfe puts it this way, the ministry of tears is much more significant than the ministry of truth, especially in times like this. And so what I would say is, as you're ministering to a friend in a time of need, oftentimes it's just showing up. There's power in showing up. There's power in leaving food on the doorstep. There's power in leaving a note. There's power in sending a text.

There's power in letting people know that they're never alone. And in the midst of that hardship and that hard time, just a scriptural passage that I'm familiar with that I try to recite on a daily basis is Isaiah 43 verse two. It says, when you pass through the waters, I will be with you. And when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned. The flames will not set you ablaze. And as you alluded to earlier in the conversations to this book, this entire meaning of even if, when they were thrown into the fire, right, they were thrown in, that God didn't rescue them because of their bold and audacious faith to say, even if he doesn't, right? He didn't rescue them from it. He didn't offer the security away from the fire, but we can experience his perfect security in the midst of it.

And that's exactly what happened. Everything that was burned in the fire were the ropes that they were bound in. And then all of a sudden it says in the scripture in Daniel chapter three that they were found walking in the midst of the fire.

And there was a fourth man that looked like the son of the gods. What I would give anybody walking through a difficult season of life right now is that although God did not promise the absence of pain in this life, he always promises his perfect presence in the midst of our pain. Wow. Well, now y'all know why I love this man of God and his passion for Christ is contagious. Zach Clinton, best way for folks to pre-order your new book, Even If, best way for folks to dial into your podcast, all your ministries.

How would you direct our listeners to that as we get out of here? To purchase a book, I would say to go to aacc.net forward slash books. It's also listed on Amazon. I believe that there's some loose ends that we need to tie up on our end to make sure that the pre-order goes live.

It's officially launching May 1st. But as you mentioned, follow us on the Built Different podcast. You can actually look up zachclinton.com and just find all of those resources listed there as well. Built Different, a wonderful podcast. I've been a guest on that podcast before. I'm telling you, man.

Wow. Well, listen, give your pops a hug for me. Thank you, Zach, for joining us and give a shout out to all of our friends out there on the new 93.7 FM. And hello to Tony the Tile Man. He's listening right now. First time listener to Truth Talk Live.

We just saw him on the street out. Zach, say hello to Tony the Tile Man. He's listening. Tony the Tile Man, we love that you're listening. And Stu, hey, thanks for having me on, my friend. I love you. Yes, sir. God bless you, man. Someone comes in to stab your pastor in the middle of a sermon. What do you do?

We'll talk about that when we come back. 866-348-7884. God bless you. The book is Even If by Zach Clinton. Be sure you pre-order that today. You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com