We work, we earn, we save.
But is that all there is? The Book of Ecclesiastes gives us an entirely new perspective on money that impacts our day-to-day lives. FaithFi's newest study, Wisdom Over Wealth, unpacks life-changing biblical truths about wealth, work, and contentment. This resource will help you grow in how you handle wealth by deepening your trust in God. Get your copy when you become a FaithFi partner with a gift of $35 a month or $400 a year at faithfi.com partner. Everyone also to whom God has given wealth and possessions and the power to enjoy them and to accept his lot and rejoice in his toil, this is the gift of God, Ecclesiastes 519.
Hi, I'm Rob West. What if true joy doesn't come from gaining more but from gratefully receiving what God has already provided? Today, John Cortenez joins us to explore what he calls the cycle of grateful living, how it transforms our approach to money and contentment.
And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, I always love having John Cortenez in the studio. He's the director of grant making at the McClellan Foundation, also the co-author of God and Money and True Riches. He's also the author of FaithFi's new study on the book of Ecclesiastes, Wisdom Over Wealth. John, great to have you back with us. Thanks for having me, Rob. Today we're returning to Wisdom Over Wealth to explore what you call, John, the cycle of grateful living and how embracing our approach to money and contentment can truly be life-changing. Give us some context to this as we get started.
Well, sure. You know, it's such a joy to dig into Ecclesiastes. And as I was studying that book and reading commentaries, especially with an eye toward faith in our finances, I kept coming back to Ecclesiastes 5, 18 through 20.
You just read verse 19. After a lot of study, I've really come to view these as critically important verses. Ecclesiastes has so much to say about our search for meaning and contentment in life. And these verses come right in the middle of the longest meditation on money, and they reflect on what it means to enjoy the life that God has actually given us.
So we're told that it's good and fitting to eat and drink and find satisfaction in our work. But the key is that even the ability to enjoy what we have, that is a gift from God too. So just to look at those three verses very quickly at an overview level, verse 18 shows us what's good for everyone. If I'm rich, if I'm poor, finding joy in my everyday life and labor is good. Verse 19 introduces the idea that wealth is a gift, not just the possessions and the money, but even the power to enjoy that gift. If we're alive and mentally present enough to enjoy something, then that's a gift from God during our short life on earth. And verse 20 gives us the result of this mindset.
If I'm living this way, God will keep me occupied with joy, not with worry or regret. Yeah. John, I think this is such an important idea. The idea that money is a good gift from God, it's something he created, and it's for, in part, our enjoyment. I think we can miss that in our understanding that money is dangerous, which it is, and so we have to be on our guard. But this enjoyment factor, I think, is often overlooked. Do you see that?
I do. It's something that all of scripture is there for our edification and benefit, and Ecclesiastes provides such a powerful witness to that, that of course, wealth is a temptation and a danger. That's clear in scripture. But also, just like you said, it's a gift from God, and he loves to bless his children.
Yeah. So I'd love to walk through that cycle of grateful living, if that sounds good. Let's do that. So when we look at that verse 19, it gives us a pattern that I have an acronym for, that we use in the study, which is to E-A-T, which of course spells eat. That seems appropriate in a book that tells us to remember joy in our eating and drinking. But in this case, we're saying that stands for Enjoy, Accept, Toil. E-A-T.
Okay. And so E is Enjoy God's provision, just like we're saying. We begin by recognizing that everything we have is a gift. Not just our wealth, but even the ability to enjoy it. If we have health or freedom or relationships, these are a gift from God that makes enjoying his gifts and creation and provision possible.
So that's to Enjoy. A is Accept Life's Brevity. The second step is to accept our lot, our few days of life, our current season of life, even the limitations that we face. Ecclesiastes meditates on death a whole lot, because it's wanting us to recognize that life is short. And when we recognize this, it gives us a greater sense of purpose in the precious few years that we get on earth. And then finally, T is to Toil with Joy, because Ecclesiastes does call us to rejoice in our work. And we often dream of escaping work through wealth, but Ecclesiastes tells us that proper joy is found in our toil, not escaping from it.
That is so good, Jon. Well, I can't wait to unpack this a bit more as we begin to talk about this cycle of grateful living, specifically what gets in the way. And for those of us who have been blessed with much, and I would say everyone listening to this broadcast in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world, if we have more than we need, we've been blessed with much. But why does joy get choked out so often in that prosperity? We're talking today with Jon Cortenez. He's the author of Faith Fi's new study on Ecclesiastes, Wisdom Over Wealth.
We're talking the cycle of grateful living, and we'll continue just around the corner. partner with a gift of $35 a month or $400 a year at faithfi.com slash partner. We're grateful for support from Eventide Investments on the faith and finance program. Eventide's approach to values-based investing is grounded in the belief that humankind was created in the image of God with intrinsic dignity, value, and worth. Eventide calls this investing that makes the world rejoice. More information is available at eventideinvestments.com. That's eventideinvestments.com. So glad to have you with us today on faith and finance.
With me today in studio is Jon Cortenez. He's director of grant making at the McClellan Foundation, is the co-author of God and Money and the book True Riches. He's also the author of Faith Fi's brand new Ecclesiastes study. It's called Wisdom Over Wealth. I can't wait for you to get your hands on it. If you want to do that, just head to faithfi.com.
You can order it today. We're diving into one aspect of wisdom over wealth, what Jon calls in the study the cycle of grateful living, and he unpacked that around an acronym, EAT, to enjoy God's provision, accept life's brevity, and toil with joy. And Jon, it's safe to say that most of us wrestle at times with feeling truly grateful or joyful in the rhythms of daily life. What do you think tends to get in the way for most of us? Well, you know, if Ecclesiastes calls us to enjoy provision, accept life's brevity, and rejoice in our toil, I think it's interesting to say what would be the opposite. I could take God's provision for granted, forgetting to be content and grateful. I could never think about how precious and short life is, and I just trudge along day by day and not give it much thought, and I can complain and bicker about my toil and my work, dreaming about some far off day when I can escape the quote rat race.
But really, how miserable is that compared to the positive vision that scripture gives? The big idea is that this biblical financial vision is not about a someday that I should achieve with good planning, but about today, where I'm in the presence of Christ, content and joyful as I'm toiling along in the life he's given me. You know, there's this really popular idea out there called fire, or financial independence, retire early.
And there's some interesting ideas there, but also I think there's a real danger. I used to really think this way, and it's if I can slave away hard enough, live frugally enough, stockpile enough money for 10 or 20 years, someday I'll own my own time. I'll just kick back and do whatever I want. It sounds attractive, but really it's a mirage, because the human condition is to be oriented to a purpose, to work. Now, am I saying you should, you know, stay in a job that's miserable with an abusive boss or whatever?
No, of course not. But look, even if you're retired, it's not so you can sit on the beach for 20 years. We're all made by God to toil in a wholesome way, to work at accomplishing something good and beautiful. And as we do that, to be content and rejoice with gratitude as we do it.
So that vision of getting away from work forever, that's a dream that ultimately won't satisfy our hearts. Oh wow, yeah, that is such a big idea. I'm glad you called that out. John, in the study you offer another powerful insight that while many people today are wealthy by historical standards, very few actually experience joy in their prosperity. It's a striking observation, isn't it?
It really is. And in the context of human history, like you point out, especially in the developed world, we live like royalty. An upper middle class family today, if we've got air conditioning and cars and clean water and food and an annual vacation and good housing, we're living like European royalty from just 300 years ago. And yet, we're often anxious and stressed and unsatisfied. I was talking with someone recently and the word billionaire came up and he said, oh, I know lots of billionaires and I wouldn't trade places with them.
They're as unhappy as anyone else. So clearly, money isn't the answer in its own. And I'd say that's why this cycle of grateful living from scripture is so needed.
It teaches us how to engage with our wealth rather than just chase after more endlessly. Yeah, that's right. And the preacher in Ecclesiastes, I think we believe at least, was King Solomon. So he speaks with authority on this, doesn't he? That's right.
He had plenty of wealth and the opportunity to enjoy it, but didn't find satisfaction there. Yeah, that's right. Now, John, you also draw a connection between the wisdom of Ecclesiastes and Jesus teaching in Luke 12. I'd love for you to spend a minute or so unpacking that for us.
Sure. Well, in Luke 12, it's a great financial chapter and Jesus reminds us there of the birds and the flowers. They don't worry and yet their needs are met.
And he points out that we're so much more valuable than they are. And it's interesting because this is very comforting, but also sobering. It's comforting because God is our provider and he cares for us in the days that he's ordained for us on this earth. But it's also sobering because like flowers and birds, we have a short life on God's earth. Our time here is brief and it's going to pass by. James actually says this in chapter one of his letter, the rich will pass away like a wildflower. So God provides for that wildflower generously, but the time to bloom is short. So therefore, again, let's enjoy God's provision while we're here, accept our limitations and the brevity of life and rejoice in our toil. And let's walk with Christ faithfully for each precious short day that he gives us.
Yeah, that's right. John, let's go back for a moment to verse 20. I'm going to read it for us. It says, he will not much remember the days of his life because God keeps him occupied with the joy in his heart.
What does that kind of life look like in your view and practical terms? Well, I love this verse and it's a challenge to me personally, but I think it looks like presence, like a low anxiety life. Remember that image of the birds, right? They're not anxious about tomorrow. They're just living their happy little bird lives, trusting in God's provision. So I have a grateful heart.
It's too full and happily busy to obsess over regrets or compare to others or get anxious about financial uncertainties. So personally, whenever I get too spun up over the geopolitical environment or a work deadline or where my retirement account balances, I try to step back and say, no, no, let's invite Jesus Christ into this moment. I want to ask his help to help me do that EAT cycle again to enjoy God's gifts, accept life's brevity, and rejoice in my toil. Because it's a remarkable privilege to be alive in this moment, to have even the opportunity to toil. Ecclesiastes points out that every previous generation, their turn has come and gone on this earth, but we're still here. It's our turn right now to honor God as we look to an eternity of hope in Christ up ahead.
So let's not spin our wills and stress. Let's be content like those birds, like those flowers, in the precious moment sustained by the generous hand of God and able to joyfully engage in the tasks that he puts in front of us. That's the kind of life that God longs for us to live.
Yeah. John, as we begin to wrap up here, I'd love for you to share just kind of any practical rhythms you've put in place in your life as you've obviously done a deep dive into Ecclesiastes and really processed this at a philosophical level. Is there anything that kind of comes to mind that you've done that has been helpful to you? You know, one thing that's really struck me is contentment, not just on the level of here's the amount of financial provision I have, let me be content with it, but actually contentment in a much larger, almost call it a whole life sense.
You know, I'm part of the generation, I'm a millennial, and we grew up being told, work hard, dream big, you can do anything, you can be anything, you can be president, you can be an astronaut. And part of the wisdom of Ecclesiastes in embracing our lot, or embracing the limits of our life, is to really recognize that there's a smallness to our life. And that's different to think in those terms, but Christ is the one who's big and great and eternal and glorious. I'm actually really small and I'm not going to be here on this earth for long, but in the days he's given me, let me glorify him and live in that kind of contentment. And that actually helps me avoid kind of that discontentment of, well, my life should have turned out for more, I could have accomplished more and been more.
Say, no, actually Christ has accomplished it all, and if he's put me here, I'm going to glorify him and let that be enough for me. Well, yeah, that's well said. And I guess the bottom line is, John, that when we choose to be grateful, we can enjoy God's provision and accept life's brevity and then rejoice in our toil, right? That is that cycle of grateful living.
Well, yeah, that's powerful. Well, unfortunately we're out of time, so we're going to have to have you back, but I really appreciate your time today and the work you did on wisdom over wealth. It's an incredible resource. I can't wait for our listeners to get their hands on it. Thanks for being here.
Thanks for having me on, Rob. That was our friend and author, John Cortenez. If you'd like to dive deeper into the joy of living a grateful life, check out our new study, Wisdom Over Wealth. This month, when you give a gift of $35 or more, we'll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you for supporting the ministry. Go to faithfi.com slash wisdom.
That's faithfi.com slash wisdom. Stick around. Well, by doing good to explore a new way of investing that aligns with your values.
More information is available at one ascent.com and by clicking analyze my investments. You're young. You don't go to the doctor that often. Yet health insurance is still so expensive. If your health insurance costs too much, maybe you should switch to an affordable alternative. Take charge of your healthcare with Christian healthcare ministries. CHM offers programs starting under $100 per month.
Check off the affordable box on your list and get back to what you really love, running your business or caring for your kids and have peace of mind while doing it. Visit chministries.org slash faithfi to enroll today. Hey, great to have you with us today on faith and finance from Rob West. Well, let's take your questions today. We're ready to dive in 800-525-7000. We're going to begin in Indiana today. Hi, Annie. Go ahead.
Hi, thank you for taking my call. First of all, I'm having some financial problems big time and I got a lean putt on my property. I own my own house.
I'm retired and I'm afraid I might lose my house. I owe $3,100 and some dollars on a credit card that I have and I got the lean. I don't know if that means that it's too late for me to do anything to help me out on that and I don't know what I can do.
Okay. Yeah, I realize this can be a heavy weight that you're carrying here and certainly we want to help you navigate through this. As a first step, I'd like to provide a certified Christian financial counselor if you would be interested in taking advantage of it. We would pay for it, Annie, so there wouldn't be any cost to you. But this would be somebody who, first of all, is a Christ follower, but second of all, has been trained and committed their time to serve God's people in this area of financial counseling.
And I think that person, whether you do it over the phone or, you know, a web connection of some kind, probably over the phone, could help you just get a lay of the land. How much do you owe? You know, what income do you have and what is the priority next steps?
Because obviously, we want to protect your home. We want to protect the equity in the home. So being able to not only contact your creditors, but address the lien directly. So the starting point there is to determine the lien type. Is it a judgment?
Probably is. And then you'd contact the lien holder to negotiate a payment plan or a partial settlement. And, you know, I think if it's, you know, with a property lien, that of course clouds your property title, blocking a sale or refinance. And so there are certain steps that can be taken there. But I think that really is the first step for somebody to try to just help you figure out what is owed, what income do you have, and then what is that path forward. So if you'd be open to that, I'd like for you to stay on the line. My team is going to get your information.
And we will, again, cover the cost of that certified Christian financial counselor to call you and begin to work with you to see if they can help you navigate your situation. Would you be open to that? I would. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Very good. All right.
So, Annie, stay right there. We'll get your info and have somebody get in touch with you right away. God bless you. We'll be praying for you. Thanks for calling today.
Let's go to Illinois. Hi, Carolyn. How can I help you?
Hi. The reason for my call, it's, I guess it's sort of a two-part question. But I also wanted to express when I went to the bank, I was offered a opportunity to have a HELOC.
I don't need it, but they have a promotion going and there are no fees and this and that. But one of the things that I want to point out is that when I was going through the paperwork, it was because of this program that I was able to understand much better what I was reading and go back today and ask questions. I was able to ask questions about, you know, the index in terms of, you know, what you're going to pay in interest, the index, and then the margin that they add on, and then the APR. And all those things were very clear to me in terms of being able to ask intelligent questions and understand what they were saying. So I just wanted to let you know that it was because I listened to this program that I was able to comprehend that. I'm so glad to hear that. That's great. Well, I'm delighted we could have been a resource for you. You know, it's always helpful when you go in somewhere and you have a little bit of a knowledge base to build on and ask the right questions.
So that that thrills me to no end, Carolyn. Well, specifically related to that HELOC, what are you thinking about? Okay, well, again, I don't need the thing and they were offering it.
And if you have anything that you want to say about them, that's fine. The nature of my question was that I noticed with this HELOC, and I've noticed in the past, like, for instance, if you're buying a car, when they do a hard check on your credit, what they come back with seems to be significantly different than what the consumer products offer. So, for example, I never fall below 800 when I'm checking online. But, for example, today Equifax showed 780 when the information that I got in the mail from the bank.
Now, when I go online and with the consumer resources and I check Equifax, it says 804. And even if you do a hard check, generally, you know, it's not going to be a 20 plus spread difference and it wouldn't bounce back that quickly. So my initial question is, is why is there such a significant difference between what the consumer has access to versus the, you know, corporate or whatever?
Yeah, it's a great question. And you're exactly right. They can vary pretty significantly. And it comes down to the difference between consumers and lenders using different formulas that weight information differently. So, for example, lenders may use different versions of a FICO score that's industry specific for certain types of loans. And so that means it's a different algorithm and it places weight on different factors versus the consumer version of that that might use a completely different formula that results in a higher score.
So they should be, of course, in the ballpark, but it's not unusual for them to be different by any means. And that's why a lender is always going to want to pull their own credit report. Even if you were to say, hey, I just pulled this the other day.
Here it is. They're not going to accept it because they want to run it through their own formulas because they know that they're using certain formulas with certain weightings for a specific type of loan that you're seeking. So that's usually the difference there with regard to that HELOC. You know, some folks will say, well, I ought to go ahead and get it, even if I'm not going to use it, because what if I needed into the future and I couldn't qualify for it? And as long as I don't borrow against it, I'm not having to pay anything. And I would just challenge that a little bit, even if there's not upfront fees, which usually there are some costs, closing costs and so forth. But even if they're saying, listen, we won't charge any of that, then often there are other expenses. There might be an inactivity charge. There may be, you know, other kind of monthly charges that they impose upon you that, you know, will cost you something over time. You also have the impact to your credit because that's another loan that's outstanding.
Even if you're not using it, that's a credit that's available to you, which will be factored in. So I think I would just make sure you have a purpose for it. And if you don't, I'd probably be inclined not to. There might be some that would say as long as there's no fees and you'd want to double check that, that it's worth getting just to have access to it. If you needed it down the road, I would probably opt not to.
The last reason is often there's a temptation to use it because it's there even when you don't really need it. So anyway, I hope those things are helpful. Thanks for your kind remarks about the program, Carolyn. We appreciate you being on today.
Well, folks, that's going to do it for us today. It's been a great week. Appreciate all your calls and you checking in with us. So thankful for our guests this week. Just some wonderful people that love Jesus that want to help you be wise and faithful stewards. That's our goal here, at least every day as we join you on this broadcast. I couldn't do this without an amazing team that includes today, Tahira, Amy, Lisa, Anthony, and Jim. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye. Faith and Finance is provided by Faithfi and listeners like you.
