This Faith in Finance podcast is underwritten in part by Praxis Investment Management. Since 1994, Praxis has offered investment products designed to meet the practical needs of everyday investors while supporting positive change through impact strategies that go beyond screening. Guided by faith values, Praxis strives to make a positive impact on the world. Learn more at PraxisInvests.com. Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.
Proverbs 19:17. Hi, I'm Rob West. As Christians, we're called to be generous. But what does that look like when someone asks for money on the street? Should we give?
Is there a better way to help? Today, Dr. David W. Jones joins us to explore the ethics of giving to homeless people and how to show compassion without causing harm. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, we're honored to have Dr. David W. Jones with us today. He's a senior professor of Christian ethics at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and completed his PhD on Christian financial ethics. He's also the author of several books and articles on moral and theological issues.
David, great to have you on the program today. Thanks, Robin. It's good to be here. David, we're looking forward to diving into a series of financial ethics topics with you throughout this month, covering everything from the lottery and sports betting to gambling and the prosperity gospel. But today, as you know, we're starting with something many of us encounter often, the decision to give money to someone who's homeless and asking for help.
So to begin, would you lay a biblical foundation? What does God's Word teach about us caring for the poor? Yeah, Rob, I think it's important, and I think all Christians would probably agree with this: that as believers, we certainly want to have a concern for the poor. We certainly want to have a heart that desires to help. And that simply comes from Scripture.
I think of Matthew 5:42, which Christians. Christ says, Give to the one who begs from you and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. Or 1 John 3:17, where John writes and says, But whoever has this world's goods and sees his brother in need and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him? And so I think scripture is clear that we need to have a concern for the poor. We should want to help the poor.
Really, the devil in the details is, but how do we do that? And that's maybe the harder question. Yeah, that's right. And especially when we get into a situation like we're describing today, specifically being asked for help from someone on the street, we see perhaps they're homeless or appear to be. You know, that may involve a sinful lifestyle, and that brings up a whole host of questions.
So perhaps there are some questions we should ask ourselves when someone approaches us for money. What might those be? I think, you know, first off, when you see somebody on the side of the street, and perhaps you're at a red light and there's someone there with a sign, you know, that's asking for help, asking for money. I think the first thing that I like to do personally is sort of check what is my assumption in my heart about that person. And honestly, Rob, oftentimes where my heart goes is I think, well, you know, the reason why that person is in need, it's because they're lazy.
It's because they have a drug habit. It's because they're unwilling to work. And I find myself sort of silently condemning the homeless person and the person who's in need. And what I call that, that sort of heart position, really it's the phrase I've used in the past is being middle class in spirit, where what I'm doing is I'm saying, hey, I have a car, I have a job because I work hard and I have what I have because I've been willing to labor for it. But of course, we know that Christ called us not.
To be middle class in spirit, but to be poor in spirit. And as a matter of fact, that guy on the side of the street, he may be a drug addict, he may be lazy, he may be unwilling to work, he may be, in a sense, unworthy of our help. But that's the very reason why we should desire to help him. Because if we think bigger picture, just I mean, maybe a different question is this: what if God waited until we deserved his love and help in order to help us?
Well, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
So, actually, it's because that homeless person actually. Doesn't actually deserve our help, that's the very reason why we should desire to help them. And so, getting that heart in a right position, I find really is the first step. And in some senses, almost the hardest thing to do because usually our interaction in those settings, you know, we're not necessarily on the top of our game spiritually. And oftentimes, we start out in the wrong place.
Boy, that is so well said. And I think a great foundation for our discussion today. The next question then is: how do I help? And we'll get into that just around the corner. Also, what about just this overwhelming feeling that you want to be able to help everyone?
And you know, you can't, that, and much more. We're talking today with David W. Jones. He's Senior Professor of Christian Ethics at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Much more on helping the homeless just around the corner.
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Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance. We're in the midst of a series on financial ethics. Joining us today, Dr. David W. Jones.
He's senior professor of Christian ethics at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. His PhD work was actually on Christian financial ethics.
So he is someone that we are really excited about weighing in on these topics. Today, specifically, we're talking about this question we all wrestle with, and that is, should I give money to homeless people? And there are a host of issues there. And David, before the break, you were talking about really how we should posture ourselves, how we look at this through the lens of scripture, some of the perspective that we bring into this. And you said, undoubtedly, we are to give to help those in need.
The question is how?
So is it ever wrong to give money directly to someone who's homeless, like when we're being asked for money on the street? is the bigger issue how we give. Unpack that for us. Yeah, you know, getting the heart right that we talked about is maybe the first step, you know, but this the second important step: how do I do this? And certainly, um, we don't want to act in such a way where we end up enabling sin or empowering sin or not even, you know, acting in a way that would insulate somebody from the natural consequences of their sin, because oftentimes that's something that's built in that God uses to promote repentance.
And so, we want to act in a way that shows love for our neighbor. And so, oftentimes, you know, giving money directly to someone on a street corner is not going to be the best course of action. While it might not be inherently wrong, they could take that money and they could use that to finance a drug or alcohol habit or use it in other sinful ways. And so, I've always encouraged people to make some type of a non-cash gift. And that could be if you have time.
offering to buy them a meal at a local restaurant or even I know folks, it's even been my practice to carry some non-perishable food in my car, like a box of granola bars. And if someone asks for help, rather than offering them a $10 bill, offering them a granola bar. And so trying to help in a way that as best as it's possible with my own actions, our own actions, that we're trying to show love of a neighbor, that we're not purposely putting someone in harm's way by enabling them to perhaps continue in sin. Yeah. David, how do we process that from an ethics standpoint?
You know, we want to help. Perhaps we feel the leading of the Lord to help. Maybe there's a small child standing next to them. We'd love to be able to give them some cash that they could use to put gas in the car or maybe get a, you know, a roof over their head, make the rent payment. How do we think about the responsibility we have to protect them, which we can't control?
And do we leave that to the Lord? And is that okay? Or should we bear some of that responsibility that perhaps because of the situation we're in, we should naturally conclude that it would likely be used for things that would be sinful. And therefore, we have some responsibility before the Lord. How do we process that?
Yeah, I think it's all about being a good steward and acting wisely.
Now, of course, in a brief encounter on a street corner as we're walking to the office, or again, maybe you're at a stoplight and there's someone there on the side of the road. And before the light turns green or before you get to the next block, you're probably not going to be able to learn a lot about what's actually the cause of this person's poverty and why are they here. And we're not going to be able to get enough information in order to discern what they might do with a gift that I give them. And so I think that the important part is having that desire to help. Even preparing in advance to help when we have these encounters.
And then helping in the best way possible in that given context that we find ourselves in. And I think that's really what the Lord is going to hold us responsible for. And that really ought to be the goal that we're aiming for. Yeah. What about engaging in a deeper way?
My sister, for example, you know, repeatedly saw an elderly woman that obviously appeared homeless and very poor at a grocery store over a long period of time. She ended up befriending her. They became very close and journeyed together over years, often meeting. She, you know, met her at her small apartment. They helped financially.
I mean, they, she, my sister and her husband invested in this woman's life. And I think that's a picture, a beautiful picture of how we can help those in need. It does bring up, you know, questions of safety and is that, you know, appropriate and those types of things. But how do you think about engaging beyond that handout of a granola bar deeper in someone's life? Oh, that's a great question.
And what a great example by your sister there, Rob. Essentially, there's three broad causes of poverty. And I wouldn't have time to dive into all the depths of this, but the three causes of poverty are personal sin, natural evil, like think maybe like a hurricane or a tornado, or oppression by others, or essentially other people's sin. And based upon the cause of poverty, that really shapes and really directs us in how we might seek to address poverty. And there's two broad ways that poverty can be addressed.
There is an aid-based model, which is kind of giving out aid indiscriminately. And for example, if someone is homeless because of a natural disaster, well, then we want to give aid pretty much without question and as soon as possible. But a second model is a developmental-based model. And that's more, I think, of what you described there with your sister, where somebody who perhaps is in poverty because of oppression by someone. Else, or perhaps even by their own poor choices.
Well, that's going to involve long-term personal involvement in order to address the poverty. And should that become possible by encountering somebody or perhaps getting involved in a group or organization that has a long-term model that's set up, that can be an incredibly effective and as well as incredibly rewarding way to address poverty. And so it's those two approaches. Whenever we see poverty, we kind of have to process: is immediate sort of indiscriminate aid appropriate in this context or is a developmental kind of long-term thing more appropriate? And so it takes some thought in order to kind of work through various instances that we find ourselves in.
Yeah. We've only got about 90 seconds left. We're going to have to have you back clearly. But what about someone, and we get this question often who's in our listening audience today, David, saying, I'm just overwhelmed by the needs around me, and I want to help everyone. I just don't know where to start.
What a common reaction among so many believers. You know, there's a principle that I've written about and talked about elsewhere. It's called the principle of moral proximity. And what this principle teaches is that we are most morally responsible for those who are closest to us. And this has been helpful to me because it can be easy to be overwhelmed, say, by world hunger.
But the fact of the matter is, I probably can't solve world hunger from my living room. But there may be people in my immediate circles, maybe my neighborhood, my church, my town, who I'm going to come across on a weekly basis, who I can actually make a meaningful difference in their lives. And if all Christians who are out there addressed first the poverty that was closest to them, well, then obviously there's going to be a large kind of scale effect of that. And really, the fact of the matter is, we're most equipped to actually deal with those who are closest to us. And so, indeed, big problems require big solutions.
And God's called us to take care of what's in front of us first. There's no doubt about that. Folks, pick up a copy of David's book, Every Good Thing, An Introduction to the Material World and the Common Good for Christians, where he addresses this topic and much more. David, thanks for being with us today. Thanks, Rob.
That's David W. Jones, Senior Professor of Christian Ethics at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. All right, your calls are next. The number 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000.
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Take the first step toward financial freedom today. Visit ChristianCreditCounselors.org or call 800-557-1985. Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. I can't wait to take your calls and questions today.
We've got lines open. This is the time to call. They will fill up. That is those lines.
So go ahead and pick up the phone call right now. 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We're going to be tackling whatever is on your mind today.
So we'd love to be sure to address your specific question, no matter what that is, living, giving, owing, or growing God's money, any of those and more, call right now. 800-525-7,000. You can call right now. Let's go to Ann in Chicago. Hi, Ann.
How can I help you? Hi, bless you. I um had that uh Social Security Benefit that was withheld for so long and then only paid a little bit. I don't know. But it's called the windfall elimination tax, I think.
Yes, were you a teacher? Yes. Yes. They sent me a check. And I think you had the amount right there.
And then they just this month increased my monthly benefit $700 a month, which. With that, the monthly benefit, they do take out taxes before in Medicare before they send it to me, right? Mm. Yes, that's right. Yeah.
Okay, but what about the big sum? that I got. the 11,000 that I got. to make up all those years that The width. What was it?
Windfall elimination. Yeah. So, you're talking about that, so you received a lump sum. For the portion that was going back to January 1st of last year, is that right? Going back years.
Years.
Okay. Yeah. Well, I think the way it worked is, and there's a lot of moving pieces to this legislation, but that was covering past months of benefits delayed by the windfall elimination. And so that lump sum may be taxable. You would need to check with your CPA on that.
I believe you can spread the impact out, but I'm not entirely sure as to how, you know, with this new legislation and things are changing all the time, I would hate to comment on this specifically because I am not certain on that. I know we've only heard from a few folks that have started receiving this, but I believe they are taxable and would have to be reported.
Now, the IRS looks at something called your provisional income, and that's your adjusted gross income plus any tax exempt interest plus half of your Social Security benefits. And then if that goes over certain thresholds, that determines. What percent of your Social Security is taxable? But I would say, in general, it's probably going to be taxable, but not all of it. And I would check with your CPA in your situation on specifically how much, because the last thing you'd want would be to be surprised by that.
So I wish I had a more definitive answer, but I'd love for you to get a professional opinion on that, okay? Thank you so much. God bless. All right, and you too, Ann. All the best to you.
Thanks for being on the program. Tampa Bay is where we're headed next. Christina, go right ahead. Hello. How are you, Rob?
Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. Thank you.
So my question today is I'm probably on the opposite spectrum from a lot of people that call you. I'm 47. I just started my career after being a stay-at-home mom. That was my number one job, and I'm grateful to God that I was able to do that. Got my dream job, went back to school, got my bachelor's degree.
I'm making okay money. They offer at my job, they offer a 403B for retirement. I don't have any retirement, never have had retirement because I didn't have a career, didn't have a job. My question is this. They will start matching 3%.
They have two options. One is like a pre-tax, and the other one is a ROP. Post-tax. Um They will match up to 3% after one year. Should I start putting money into that right now?
Or should I wait until they start matching? I'm not sure what to do, and I'm not exactly sure how much. I should start putting in that account. We're still trying to get out of debt and stuff and catch up.
Okay, yeah, very good.
Well, first of all, you did have a job and an amazing one at that.
So I'm delighted to hear that. But now that you're transitioning to this next chapter and you've got a different type of work that you're excited about, I'm thrilled for you in that as well. And yeah, this is a great opportunity for you to start putting some money away. I'm not terribly concerned about the fact that there's not matching for the first year, especially with it.
Sounds like your company gives you the option of a Roth 403B. That's great. That means you can put in the after-tax money and then it'll grow tax-free. And then you'll get that bonus, that kicker in 12 months where they're going to start to match it. But I think the key for you right now is to get something going into retirement savings.
And the Roth 401k is a great option, and you have a lot more room to put in more money than you do with the IRA. And you wouldn't get any matching on that either.
So you might as well just keep it in the 403B. I think the only question is, based on what you said right there at the tail end, if you have high-interest consumer debt, I would wait until that's paid off before you start putting money into the 403B because that's probably at a much higher interest rate than you would expect to earn reasonably on this 403B account.
So, what type of debt are you all still working on? Is it credit cards or something else? Yeah, we have credit card debt. We still have our mortgage, and we have.
Some used cars. We didn't wanna buy brand new after dealing with some stuff and doing, having just really bad luck with deals. We have very small, like car payments with lower, I mean, They're not super low, but our balances are not extraordinarily high like they would be with a brand new car.
So, the goal is to try to pay those off and get out of some of that debt. And then, of course, the credit card debt. It's not astronomical, but it's enough where we probably should. Pay that stuff off first. Yeah, I would totally agree with that.
Not necessarily the cars. I mean, if you have a conviction about that, go ahead. But a lot of times, you know, as long as you didn't buy too much car and it sounds like you guys were really thoughtful about what you did there, I just work that into your spending plan. And I would take advantage of this opportunity to get that compounding working for you in that 403B. But I would prioritize the credit card debt first because if that's at an interest rate north of 20%, we want to get rid of that as quickly as we can.
So if you delaying the 403B contributions means you can get out from under that credit card debt quicker, great, let's do it. The second thing is, I'd love for you to have at least one month's worth of emergency funds in there before you start the 403B. And then let's start the 403B contributions.
So long as you've got at least something going into that emergency fund every month, so even if it's slow, we're getting on our way to the three to six months expenses you really want. Ultimately, I'd love for you to be putting 10 to 15% of your pay. In that 403B, but if you need to delay that because you're still working on the credit cards or because you're still working on the emergency fund, then that's fine. But as soon as you can, I'd get that money going in the 403B even before the matching kicks in. Awesome.
Thank you so much, Rob. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for your call today. That's going to do it for us.
Big thanks to my team today. Man, just so thankful for Devin Patrick, my producer, for Autumn, our call screener today. Really thankful for Taylor as well and his research and all the things he does and being our production manager here at Faith Vi. We're so grateful you are here as well. Hope you have a great day and come back and join us tomorrow.
Bye-bye. Faith in Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.
