Bringing Mormans to Christ

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Welcome to Truth Talk Live. This is Russ East, your host. Today, I want you to meet a friend of ours. Her name is Doris Hansen. Doris Will you tell us about Shield and Refuge Ministry?

tell us all about this amazing ministry based right here in Salt Lake City, Utah. Thank you for inviting me on and to be able to have the opportunity to explain our ministry to your listeners. I am the director of the Shield and Refuge Ministry, which is a ministry directed and focused on Mormon fundamentalists, which are in fact Mormon polygamists. They are people who believe in the Mormonism, Joseph Smith, and all that Mormonism originally believed in. And they also practice and believe in and practice polygamy.

In fact, they believe that polygamy is required By God, for them if they want to reach the highest heaven in glory.

So we reach out to those people with biblical truths. Um Also We Offer help for anyone who is in polygamy and would like to escape or like to get out. Excellent. Got it. And with us also is an associate of Doris's.

I believe we have Karen on the line. Karen, we'd love to hear. your testimony in just a few minutes, but is it true That You know, a lot of people are praying for the ministry of the truth network here in Utah and Ohio and North Carolina and and many other places, but Let me ask you, did the Lord use The truth network. in your case to lead you to Yeah. Karen, Karen may or may not be with us, but she should be on here fairly soon.

We'll have you hear her story here in just a few minutes. Doris, tell us a little bit about your background in terms of being being brought up in a a kind of an environment that was polygamous. Yes, I was born and raised in the polygamy group. And um my mother was a polygamist. She was the second wife Um to Her husband.

He had two wives at the same time. One was legal, the other one was the polygamist wife, which was my mother. Karen, who will be on in a moment, was also raised in a polygamy environment and became a polygamist herself. I did not become a polymist. I ran away from home when I turned 18 because I did not want any part of that.

lifestyle. But my mother Was, and she suffered, and I saw her suffering as I grew up. Uh she suffered through the loneliness and the frustration and the poverty and raising a child, children, eight children by herself most of the time. And so, having been raised in that environment and on their Pernicious. doctrines.

um when God called me to do this, I of course have experience in it and and am able to reach out on that level. to the people who do believe that polygamy is a way to eternal life. And so earlier you had mentioned that Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. Was it involved with a polygamous kind of even polyandry where a woman might already be married to another man There's just a lot of problems here that we see in the life of Joseph Smith. in light of polygamy.

We want to dive into that a little bit. Can you tell us, though, going back to your testimony, was the gospel ever shared with you? As you were growing up in Utah and you broke away from all of this, but Did the gospel ever get shared with you, like say in school? you know, high school Tho those t those eras in your life? No, in fact, Utah is so highly populated, the highest population, of course, are Mormons.

Believing in the Mormon gospel, not the biblical gospel.

So, no, I never did hear the true biblical gospel. As I was growing up, in school at all, certainly not in church that we attended. and certainly not in any of the Mormon doctrine that we heard. When I first heard the gospel and responded because of God's grace and His love. I was 43 years old, years after I had left the polygamy group.

And during those years, I left at 18 years old, and I became a Christian at 43 years old. And during all those years, I never heard the gospel then, at least that I know of. And maybe maybe my mind was closed and my heart closed, I don't know. But I don't recall ever hearing the gospel even during those years. But then again, we have to remember we live in Utah where the gospel was rarely talked about.

And then, if I remember right, when we brought our mission teams to have you share with them about your ministry, shieldandrefuge.org. There was somebody that did share the gospel with you, I think, on the workplace. At the workplace, right? Is that is that correct?

Well, I was I was uh in my workplace and they shared some books. They brought some books that uh that they had finished. And I didn't know anything about Mormon uh you know, um, ev or Christian evangelism or Mormon um doctrine where they talk back and forth, where even anybody from Mormonism would dare uh share their experience of getting out of Mormonism. And so I was completely new to this kind of thing. But I did not want to read any religious books 'cause all I knew about religion was Negative.

and painful Um but uh these were books that sh that shared what Mormonism how How Mormonism is not Christian. It is not from God. And And then shared the gospel, the true gospel of Jesus Christ. And that is when the first time that I ever heard. The truth about God's grace and that Jesus was God.

I never knew that either. That shocked me to the core. And what a lot of our and what a lot of our listeners may not realize is that the idea of Of God loving you, the idea of Jesus loves you. You never really heard that. You never heard God loves you.

Doris, right? No. No, no, I the only thing I heard is God hates Doris. Yeah. I I I was raised up in God's wrath.

That he had a whip and a chair, and he was going to whip us in line, and he was going to get us if we didn't. And whenever we failed, he was angry with us. And I never did hear of God's love, never. Not once did I hear of God's love. in the doctrination of Mormonism.

And so then there was a time, kind of like a season when all of a sudden the fog cleared and you had some.

So some quiet time, you and the Lord, and you just you just Put your faith and trust in Christ alone. I took him at his word that I would be saved by grace through faith, not by works. which is an amazing statement from the Ephesians 2. Eight and nine, and then yes, and then I received Jesus and His forgiveness and Move onward and forward from that point. Yeah, we've been so blessed to have Mission teams over the years meet up with you and So As we want to try to bring in Karen here, Karen, are you with us?

I am.

Okay. Great. Would you like to share with our listeners a little bit about how the Lord used the truth network radio here in Utah Yeah. to bring you into a meeting up with Doris. Yeah.

I would love to. Yeah, the truth network Um I remember driving home from Bluff Bluff in Bluffdale, Utah and I heard Doris Hansen on the radio say Join us for Polygamy, What Love Is This? I was like Um I was I had left polygamy, but then gone back for four years. And when I heard that, I was in a of repentance Um program, I guess you could say, where I was waiting on On the leaders to let me back in my polygamous group and get so I could get rebaptized and get my. Ordinances and hopefully get back with my husband and go back to heaven.

Would you hold that thought? Karen, hold that thought. We've got a break coming up, and we're going to continue. You can stay with us. We'll be right back here on Truth Talk Live.

You're you're listening to Doris Hansen and her associate, Karen. And so Stay with us. Stay tuned. And keep praying for the Truth Network to reach more and more people for Christ. We'll be right back.

I want to be remembered for my courage and for my faith, remembering Charlie Kirk. This is True Commentary with Stu Efferson, author and host of Truth Talk Live. Those were his words not too long before he was brutally assassinated on a campus in Utah. Charlie Kirk. Videos are going viral.

This man spoke the truth in love. He engaged. He said, if you disagree with me, come talk to me. He was pro-life, pro-family, but most important, pro-Jesus. God above all.

And yes, he talked about politics, but in a gracious way, engaging those who disagreed. One of his last tweets before he was taken so brutally was, share Jesus with someone this weekend. Remembering Charlie Kirk. Where are the Charlie Kirks of our day who are willing to stand up and be ready with an answer for the hope that is within us? Courage and faith.

Thank you, Charlie. Join Stu on radio, social media, and his daily Truth Talk Live podcast. Learn more at truthnetwork.com.

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Every branch in me that bears fruit, he prunes that it may bear more fruit. You see, Jesus was comparing believers to branches, which the Father prunes so they are more productive. The word is his pruning shear. and he uses it to remove our imperfections and to encourage us toward godliness. He uses the word to rid us of anything that might hinder our spiritual growth.

As the Spirit uses Scripture to expose sin in your life, turn from that sin and obey what Scripture says. Your weakness will turn into strength and you'll become more fruitful. for God. This is John MacArthur praying that you're continuing to be portraits of grace. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live.

This is Russ East, and I just want to give a shout out to our friends in Lynchburg, Virginia, in Dayton, Ohio, Toledo, Ohio, Greenville, South Carolina, Salt Lake City, Utah. I'm actually speaking with you right now from our Bible History Museum here in Augden, Utah. From Weber State on Harrison Boulevard. If you'd like to see some great things, you want to see about the reliability of the Bible. Just get in contact with me and I'll give you the tour.

All right, so let's get back to Karen. Karen was mentioning how that she was driving her car and she heard Doris Hanson coming on the truth. network station here in Utah. And she was talking about this phrase. Uh polygamy, what love is this?

And then that kind of got your attention.

So go continue on if you would, please. Yeah, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Because I'd been waiting for four years to get rebaptized. They had told the leaders had told me It might take ten thousand years before Jesus could forgive me. And And when I heard that, I just I just knew this wasn't love.

And I'm like, and God is love.

So, how could I be in the true religion? Like, how could this be truth? And, um And God took me from there. I listened to Lynn Wilder. And got her book, read her book.

She introduced me to Doris Hansen. And Doris Hanson. Um was so gracious to invite me to lunch and share the gospel with me. And just treat me. Like I was already a born-again believer.

She was so wonderful and And we became fast friends and um But the truth network It it was the beginning of hope for me. And I just, yeah, built uh I heard about Bill McKeever. Um Oh, all the all the pastures we have on Praise God. Yeah. I learned a lot through the trust of the truth network and the teachings of the gospel.

That's where I heard that the student needs. Yeah, I didn't need to follow a man. I didn't need to follow a man to get to to Jesus. Like I learned so much. It's okay for your net word.

Okay. Absolutely.

So for all of you listening right now, Just praise the Lord with me and just know how grateful we are for your support, prayers, prayer support, financial support. uh the support you give to our sponsors.

so that we can continue to beam. God's word and the truth of the all the many good ministries that we have like shared. and refuge. How have you been involved with Shield and Refuge, Karen, and working with Doris? Do you go sometimes and visit with women that are coming out of polygamy.

Like yourself and and showing them who Christ is and just trying to help them through this. maze of what must be somewhat somewhat dramatic, I would say say the least. Yes, yes, I um God leads me and God leads me to women all the time. We run into people at Costco, at the grocery store, Um And I live in the community I you know where the polygamist Um shop and everything, so I'm running into people I've known for years. And um and pointing them to Doris wrote a book called Is polygam polygamy biblical?

And I share that with people.

Well and it's just a powerful message that It isn't biblical. And God never commanded it. That's right. Amen to that. And so if you're listening and you'd like to have maybe Doris and Karen do a Zoom call.

with your small group, your ladies' Bible study. Doris and I talked about this just yesterday evening. And uh she's willing to do that. And um So that would be a great time. I'm sure you could go over some things.

Doris, when you do speaking engagements, maybe say over a Zoom call. What might be some of the things that you might um kind of touch on as far as Um helping women who are Christian know how to You know, reach out to somebody who's polygamous. What might be a few? A few tips on if somebody does come across A a polygamous uh uh lifestyle amongst uh young women You know, what are some the some do's and don'ts?

Well, yeah. First of all, um We are we are Christians, and so we are to speak the truth and to all people, but we're supposed to speak the truth in love. And many times I have come across uh people who tell me that they think they're weird and and they may even treat them weird, or they may call them names and turn and walk away and and that's not the way to do it. Um They are blinded by Satan's and 2 Corinthians tells us they're blinded by Satan. But when they turn to the Lord, the blinders are removed.

And so, what we need to do is, first of all, love them. Uh they've been victimized by false doctrine, beginning with Joseph Smith. And they believe, they really, truly, and Karen can vouch for this. Truly believe. They must live polygamy to please God.

And w and so it's very difficult to change their mind. That we don't, God does it. But we speak the truth, the gospel is the power of God. And so we speak the gospel of love.

However, I need to caution Um Because God is also a God of law. And he's also a God who desires and requires repentance.

So, you know, the world says all we need is love, sweet love. But God's God's love is unconditional. But that doesn't mean that we can do whatever we want and still trust God loves us. and will forgive us. There has to be a change in our lifestyle, and that comes with believing the gospel.

that Jesus died for our sins and was raised Um from the dead. And will forgive anyone who comes to him. and calling on the name of the Lord. But It's something where I would say the person needs to quietly pray, God, help me say something that. will touch the deep need of this person.

And it's a difficult thing to know. Become a friend. Become a friend and I'm sure go ahead, please. Go ahead.

Sorry. Yeah, I know a lady up in uh up in Morgan, which is a little ways from Ogden where you're at, and and she had a neighbor who was a polygamist. And she g we she and I talked quite a bit about how to reach this woman. And the first thing she did was become her friend. and become her confidante.

and to to be there and help her always um you know, bringing in the the message of Jesus in their conversation. And That is a very important thing to do. Gain their trust. Don't hit him over the head with the Bible at first. And if you're listening in Utah, yes, you might come across this more often than in other places like North Carolina or Ohio.

But this does happen in other states. Isn't that right, Doris? It happens in the US. Oh, yes, there are polygamists, Mormon polygamists living all over the country.

Okay. There's a lot of them in Missouri, yeah.

Okay, and so we want to be mindful to encourage our listeners to To connect with a local church.

So, if you're pastor or you're a women's ministry leader, At least get prayer support. And you can keep some people's names anonymous if you need to, but. There might very well be some some very deep, dark leg uh legal issues and some atrocious kinds of situations in this. scenario. There could be you know, young girls that have married up with, you know, some older man or something like that, and you just don't know for sure, you know, and so you want to be careful, and you don't want to be too quick to just.

Invite them into your home and have them stay at your home or something like that because.

Some of these men, they can get awfully honery, right? They can get awfully possessive. Yes, I had one one man uh ask me where I was at because he was going to come up and show me how he treated women. Uh, you know, and of course the conversation was over at that point. Right, right.

So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I just had a couple more comments about what I do with Source.

Okay, hold on. Yes, you hear the music too. Stay with us, and if you'd like to call us during the fourth segment of the program, the number is 866-2666. 348-7884. We'd love to hear from some of our friends and Utah especially, but anywhere you're listening.

Give us a call. We'll be right back here on Truth Talk Live. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. This is Russ East, your host here in Ogden, Utah. You can call us during the third segment of our program.

Call us at 866-4666. 3487884. Karen, tell us. what you wanted to say before the break about the different opportunities God's given you to work with SHIELD and Refuge. childrenrefuge.org Yes, so I love one of my favorite parts of working with a as a volunteer with Doris's um Christmas for for needy families coming out of polygamy.

And she's done that for years. Um but I've I've helped her for the last four years with that and Because I'm so closely connected with these families that are coming out. It's just amazing to see the generosity from Christians. And the love. Um from her ministry and Jim and Dorothy, and their church, and everyone that's involved with that.

I love it, I just have to. Give a shout out to them. And then I have enjoyed traveling with her and sharing my testimony, my story of coming out of polygamy. And I was a third wife, you know, and was born and raised in it for and was in it for 50 years before the Lord saved me. Praise God.

Yeah, and it's just an extraordinary story.

So If there's others out there that want to invite us out, we'd love to come and share. What the wonderful things God is doing in this community. and um in with her ministry. And I do also Yeah. occasionally with her on her talk show and I love doing that.

Um because it gives me a platform. Yeah. To speak truth into the lives of people in Pinesdale, Montana, people, that's where I was raised. Um There's a large political And and all over. you know, whoever listens to her show, I'm sure it's all over the world.

She's got many v many, many viewers. But um I I enjoy doing that and and just sharing my testimony and what God's done for me. I'm just grateful for her ministry and the The Truth Network also gave me some Connections with, I think you have the car guy on there, and that gave me ideas to help. set up um resources for her ministry and And so with cars and just ideas of what I needed when I left. And and you guys also just talked about the ortho The orthodontist, and my little, you know, my son needs ortho work so bad.

So I think. You're doing some great things, Truth Network and Doris's ministry as well for. for these can these Um families in need. Let me interject right here, Karen, adding a little bit to what you just said. And you experienced this yourself.

When ladies, especially women with children, come out of polygamy, generally they come out with just the clothes on their back and sometimes not even that much. Uh many times they ha have no resources, no income. They've stayed home most of the time being a plural wife and having many, many babies, and so some of them don't even have an education. enough to get a job that could support them. Uh we tr we come alongside like Christmas and when they when they need school clothes or Christmas gifts or something.

We try to help them through Through that, and any donations that our supporters can give to help in those special projects is certainly appreciated. And we helped Karen quite a bit at first when she first came out. And we've helped many families since then. Excellent. is uh true uh it's a shieldandrefuge dot org.

Is that correct? Uha, shield and refuge.org.

Okay, shieldandrefuge.org. Excellent. No, I was I was just looking at 1 Timothy chapter 3. Verse 2, and it says right here. That's a bishop or a pastor, that's an old English word for like a pastor or shepherd.

must be blameless the husband of one wife. And so what do what do people That are in the the Warren Jeffs crowd and and polygamy circles. Um, what did they say about that? Did did They twist it. Yeah, I think They twist it to say that they must have at least one wife.

That they have to have at least one wife.

However, if you go to 1 Corinthians 7.2, chapter 7, verse 2, it says, A man should h have his own wife and a wife should have her own husband. And that is monogamy, very clear monogamy. not polygamy at all. And that is a biblical mandate, of course, in the New Testament. And there's many other places in the Bible.

Well, just even in the middle of the morning. W when God when God creates Adam and Eve, there there's the model, there's the structure right there. That would be his model, you know, one man, one woman. And we read through through the Bible, too, the so many polygamous marriages are in the Bible that Mormons use as their uh foundation for polygamy. But if you read those stories, they're all dysfunctional.

They are confusion and jealousies and pain involved and incest and rape. All of these crimes happen in the polygamous marriages in the Bible, so there's no way that that actually God has. has ever commanded it or man or condoned it. Right, right, right, right. And so, hey, if you're out there listening right now and you have a desire to help.

With, say, this Christmas time, are you going to be like you said, looking for support so that you can help these women that have Maybe been exiting. And they don't really have funds to provide a nice Christmas for their many kids. they could go to shieldandrefuge.org and they could be of assistance there. We we We would be happy to hear from families who might need help during Christmas. And of course, anyone who would like to help out we would certainly appreciate that.

And you can do that by emailing us or by going to our website and contact us through there. Would would you mind giving that email address? for us and give us that website one more time. Uh Uh the website is shieldandrefuge.org. And, um The Email is Doris at H.

ShieldandRefuge.org.

Now, Doris and Karen, did I ever tell you about the The background that my grandfather had in polygamy. Did I ever mention that to you? Yes, you have. Yes, you've explained that. I'll just share that right now with our listeners.

It's such a such a a horrible thing, but God can give us You know, cleansing from it, just even from the fact that this is my estranged grandfather that I only interacted with a couple times in my life. And he did hear the gospel in music when my youth group came to Utah on a Kind of a mission trip with some singing. We went to Cayesville Bible Church, I remember, and I remember seeing him there. But I heard that back when my grandfather in the 1950s, decided to leave my grandmother. uh to join up with um with a polygamous group Um you know, it was such a an awful, awful time and um Also, what happened around that time was My mother was a student at Brigham Young University.

as a freshman and And her father told her that that she could join in with this polygamous group. and be married off to an older man and that they would take care of her. And but that just so you know, if you if you were to take this offer up for yourself Um you could she could, but if she ever decided to leave it, My my my grandfather actually told my mom that that the group would go after her to take her life. If you decided to, you know, and so I mean, this is just such heavy stuff, and we have to trust the Lord. But now, is this kind of a threatening thing amongst polygamous groups just sometimes?

I mean, I don't want to. unnecessarily be sensational. Yeah, but t talk talk about that, if you would, a little bit. How how much does this really happen? No, I mean, if It's the fear of every polygamist woman because they take The And then they're threatened by The leader, you know, that their throat will be slit, their innards will be disemb they'll be disemboweled, their heart will be, you know, cr uh Cut out.

I mean, it's a horrible thing. Their tongue will be cut off. I mean, it's It's a demonic satanic ritual. But they don't know it when you're going through that ordinance. It's for marriage.

It's the day I went through it, the day I was married. And it's just terrible. My husband came and told me that day. right after I took that that oath. It's a blood oath covenant, and he said there are men set apart that will do that.

And I thought if I ever needed a horrible stronghold for women who want to come out and they're afraid to simply because of those blood oaths. Right. I remember Well, thank you for your courage, Karen and Doris. You're such an example to all of us to trust the Lord. And to be faithful to what God's called us to do.

If we were talking in the Middle East, that this would be a common common situation, wouldn't it? Because because polygamy is practiced over there all over in the world. I think the difference with that, Russ, is uh the the uh they can live polygamy if they want to and if they're supposedly able to support all their wives and treat them equally. But with Mormon polygamy, it's a commandment from God. And it's not with the Middle East, it's not a commandment from God, it's just something He privileged that He allows them to do.

With Mormon polygamy, it's the Blood Old Covenants. You have to live it or you'll be damned. God will be angry with you if you don't. He'll withdraw his blessings from you if you don't. You know, all of that fear and mongering comes with.

Mormon polygamy. And and wasn't it in about 18 Well, I want to say 98. When there was a supposed, like a, I guess, a manifesto, they don't even, they didn't really call it like a revelation. Eighteen ninety. Yeah, yes, eighteen ninety.

Yes, t tell us about the prophet W Wilfrid Woodruff who who made a s a statement that Polygamy was not to be. engaged in but That's not really what happened, but do you want to talk about that a little bit? What was going on there?

Well, he was the president of the church at the time. And the president of the Mormon church is also the prophet speaking for God to the people. And the pressure of the United States government was on the Mormon people to cease and desist this polygamy stuff. And so he had what they call the manifesto, which is a declaration that God has withdrawn plural marriage and it's not required anymore. But that was just a smokescreen because they did not stop living it.

They continued to live it, they continued to. To have plural marriages and to perform them, and many times they would go out of the state of Utah to Mexico or Canada and perform the plural marriages. Uh but it wasn't until 1904 and the government found out that they were you know this duplicious And so they threatened them with assets, removal of assets and a few other things. Uh and so finally at that point they actually took polygamy away from the LDS. Mormon Church.

requirements. Thank you so much. If you have a question, call. Call us at 866-348-7884. Due to some just some technical things, we're going to have to say goodbye to Karen.

Thank you, Karen, for being on Truth Talk Live. But stay with us, we have one more segment. My pleasure. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. This is Russ East, your host.

I'm talking with Doris Hansen. She's the Director for Shield and Refuge Ministry. helping women and children And and and men too, to to leave out of a life of polygamy. There's been so many contortions of what God's prescription is, God's blueprint. for marriage.

That's just what Satan does. He loves to twist everything that God has made to be good. And Doris has been doing this ministry for how many years now, Doris, did Children Refuge begin? How long has it been going on? Since two thousand and seven.

So It's been almost twenty years. And so, can people find you on YouTube? Where can they learn more? Are there videos that people can watch, or do you have some? Yes.

And you can find all those links on our website, shieldenrefuge. org. We also have a web page, whatloveis.tv. It's being reconstructed right now, but there are links on that page as well for our shows. We've done almost a thousand um video podcasts.

And just touching on all the aspects of polygamy, many, many interviews with women who have come out of polygamy, and men too.

So it's very informative. And this is not some obscure kind of situation that's only in the dark You know, shadows of Utah and the boonies somewhere. I mean, there's mainstream. Cable kind of programs out there that have this going on. It's been kind of do we call it that it's it's kind of been celebrated or kind of glamorized a little bit right like that, you know?

And so with all the confusion as to the roles of men, the roles of women, the role of marriage, living together, I mean, this just really falls a very practical kind of ministry.

So if your church Is looking for a ministry to support, you know, to add it to your missions budget. This is Missions Monday. here at the Truth Network on Truth Talk Live. And so This would be a great ministry to pray about supporting. Even a small amount would help encourage.

Doris and her team, like we heard about Karen. and how she was listening to the Truth Network and she was going to be going back into a polygamous kind of environment. But the Lord touched her heart with the information about Doris' ministry. And look, she was just on our program just now.

So isn't that a praise to God? for his green and his loves. You know, and we want you listening right now to know that we do love you. We want to help you get out of this kind of, you might be listening just like Karen right now, this very second. And we want you to know the love of Christ.

We want you to know his holiness and that We don't want anyone to die in our sins, like Jesus said. But if you don't believe that Jesus is the one, that he's. He's the Messiah, then then we'll all die in our sins. And so So so and that polygamy isn't the savior. Polygamy can't save you.

Polygamy can't earn God's love for you. Uh Okay, okay. Definitely. This is a phone number that you can call right now if you'd like to talk with Doris. It's 866-2666.

348. 7884. That's 866. 348. 7884.

One more time. 866. three four eight 7884. Is there a testimony, an example of someone that comes to your mind? We heard about Karen's life, but maybe one or two other people in the time we have left on Truth Talk Live that you'd like to share about and of course maybe keep their name anonymous, but Uh just maybe a a s a a real example, a story.

Of somebody that over the years just jumps out at you and just blesses you, you know, when you think about somebody coming out of polygamy.

Well, actually, one that jumped to my mind immediately was a woman who contacted me last year. And she had come out of a very small polygamy group in a western Um part of Salt Lake City. And she and her husband had both left, and he didn't believe in God or didn't have any kind. For God or Jesus. But she did.

She wanted to know more about God. She'd been taught wrong things about Him. And she just said, It's on my heart. I want to talk to you. and see if you can tell me more about who God really is.

So I called Karen and the three of us went to lunch and we shared the gospel with her. And Um, it was r it was Sure, she loved it. She accepted it immediately. And at that point, her husband. Rejected it and left her and left her he he he He's not supporting her or his children like a man should.

And it's just a sad situation, but she held on to God. In fact, she's a family that we helped to Christmas last year. Uh but she wanted to know the truth about God. Is so opposite of what we learn in polygamy. God is.

Is married according to them. He has plural wives in heaven. And and if we're good polygamists, we can become gods in heaven and and have plural wives and and pop and populate our own planet.

So She's she's She's struggling through, but she has a sweet attitude. And if you would pray for her, I'd give you the initial S. Um And she is pray for her and her children that God would just watch out for her and provide all of her needs. We've had others who fought No, polygamy is the way to go. I have to do this.

I can't turn to any other religion. Uh it's all fake. And then the more we work with them, the more they see the truth in God, the truth of God, the grace of God. I just finally seeps in, God opens their heart to believe. And then they will turn to him.

still wondering if they have to work. To keep God's love, where we don't, you know, we're saved by grace and we stay saved by grace. But it's very difficult for the women and the men uh to understand that We don't have to perform. to earn God's love. Um My own brother-in-law years ago, he he turned from the polygamy group and became a a Christian.

In fact, we interviewed him on our show. many, many years ago. And he was just shocked to find out that the God that is true, the biblical God. Of the Bible is worthy of worship where the God he had been raised with. It was just a man like us, you know, just a human like us who'd been exalted through the generations.

And so, you know, you get all kinds, men and women. That will testify to the beauty of the Christian gospel as opposed. to what the polygamists teach. And and and Mormonism, that's what Mormonism is actually. Absolutely.

And of course, in the book of Ephesians in the letter that Paul wrote It's Paul's very specific here when he writes to the husbands in the Christian church. Church. He says to love your wife the way that Christ loves the church. even that concept is going to have to be kind of like deconstructed and then given a biblical foundation Right. All these words like church and pastors or shepherds or bishops and things like that, you have to kind of start fresh.

And so, praise God, that is what happens. All things become new when you become a believer. When we think about the ministry, like, say, down in near Hurricane, southern Utah, Brodie Olson, you know, I'm sure you've heard about that good ministry down there. What a turnaround, right? What a turnaround of having a Christian church down there to show the true model of what.

Where there was no Twenty years ago there was no Christian influence in that town at all. And now there's Christian worship services, Bible studies, Christian resource centers, and it's just beautiful.

So we need your prayers and support and encouragement for Doris. and her team because There's places in Utah where there might very well need a good church to be started there, but we need some people to kind of be familiar with the people that might be coming to that church. And if they're not acquainted and trained with the polygamous lifestyle and and what kind of challenges they have coming out of it, can you imagine being a a 10-year-old kid or a 14-year-old kid or something that comes out of Mormonism in in terms of this whole breakoff group into polygamy. And then and they try to try to integrate it into a Christian church, and they explain, well, I have three moms. I mean, that could be a little bit difficult to interact with a non-polygamous group.

And so, yes, we want that, but we want to be able to. kind of g get get the Christian people ready for for this and so well and that reminds me russ of the That reminds me of an instance that happened a couple of months ago, a lady from the the FLDS polygamy group that we helped leave and and um she uh I asked a woman who lives in the same town she does if she would help her invite her to the Christian church, and so she did, and and the the lady went to the Christian church with her and went started going to Bible study with her, but the Bible study was teaching on Elijah. And the once they started teaching about Elijah, this ex-polygamous woman was so upset, she got up and left and never came back. And so she when she called me and told me that what had happened, well, Elijah is is the kind of a a story that you would get in a polygamy group. that he is he's going to You know, show the power and wrath of God and, you know, the Yeah.

Turmoil that came with Elijah's story. Of course, she didn't know the true story of Elijah. But we have to be careful how And what we say to the polygamists. when they first start learning about the biblical Right, right. We want to give them the f a a a more full kind of a uh the the more the complexities and the love and the grace and the different different kind of uh areas the re the repentant jesus the what did jesus say repent and believe yeah repent and and turn to me.

That's what not every case. Yeah, yeah. Those cases like that with Elijah, those were for a specific time because those prophets of Baal were so wicked and so forth. No, we're historical and polygamous. No, exactly.

Exactly. It's been a real blessing to be with you here on Truth Talk Live today. And Doris, I want to thank you for making this a great program. One that's given God all the glory, and so our listeners are going to be praying for you. I hope you'll support Doris.

Go ahead.

Shield yes, shieldandrefuge.org. And thank you, Russ, for the For your support through the years, you've been very, very kind.