Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hey everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. If you want to give me a call, as usual, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. And we are working hard on the website and frantically, a little frantics, working on stuff and getting ready for the release in a couple of weeks.

So there you go. And let's see what else. That was something else. I can't remember what it is.

So anyway, hey, if you want to send me an email, that's easy to do. Just direct your email to info at karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, karm.org, and you can send us an email. And put a subject line, radio comment, radio question. I've got a lot going on right now. I've got a lot of stuff going on.

So working on things. You know, when I work, I really get into it. I really get into it. and my wife has to approach me from a distance because I get so into stuff that I'm juggling this and juggling that in my mind. Over the years, she's learned to just kind of hang there for a sec.

I'll go, yes, what? Because I had to come out of the universe I got myself into as I'm thinking. I enjoy that, but she thinks I'm kind of strange. I don't know what's wrong with her because I'm wonderful. I tell her that a lot.

She never disagrees. She just stares at me, and then that's it. But, you know, at least she's not disagreeing when I tell her how great I am. All right. Like I said, 877-207-2276.

Let's get to Jermaine from California. Jermaine, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. Happy Tuesday.

It's been a minute, but I wanted to ask you. I don't know if I can pose my question well enough, but basically signs of a wicked church. I asked this question because I know someone, I won't name them, but they go to a church that their choir director was basically a cross-dresser. And there's a, yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess that's an obvious sign. And I noticed that they allowed this person to actually pretty much run the choir and teach little children.

And yeah, it gets really interesting. But I noticed this church has a whole segment of people who pretty much practice that lifestyle where there seem to be some who are conflicted and they haven't left the church, but others are at stake. and there's a lot of cultural reasons behind this. It's an ethnic church.

However, it actually made me wonder about the ultimate destination of the people who run the church. People call themselves pastors and deacons and elders. And the congregation sitting there, is that, I mean, I don't want to judge anyone too harshly, but could that kind of be a sign of people who are perishing, who are headed for hell, of just being able to sit there and enjoy what's supposed to be worship. And this is a man who, and I've actually met this gentleman in the past, and he was a good six-foot one, near 300 pounds, and it was really disturbing. Yeah.

So. Yeah, it could be, as you said, a sign that they're on their way to hell. And the answer is yes, it's a sign. It doesn't mean they are. People can momentarily make some very bad decisions and then repent later when the Holy Spirit convicts them.

But normally speaking, if there's no repentance in this and the clergy, the leadership is promoting this kind of perversion, then it would be evidence that they're not saved. I'm not saying they are or aren't, but that's just how it works. And so no, a cross-dresser should not be a leading worship. It's just simple. It's horrible.

Okay, yeah. And I just felt bad for the children who were kind of forced to sit under this and who have been kind of corrupted and conflicted because I have seen some people also who rebelled and they said, hey, as I read my Bible, this is not okay. They still have love for the person as a human, as a family member, but they know that this is extremely wicked. and, you know, it's a very tense topic for some folks to tackle because no one wants to ever ask that question, and I hear they had a funeral for this. Yeah, yeah, that's why I called.

I'll tell them straight to their face, you're in sin, Deuteronomy 22.5. A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on woman's clothing. Whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God. Yeah.

So now this doesn't mean we hate the people, but it doesn't mean that the clergy should in absolutely no way allow anybody who does anything like that to be leading any choir or worship of God. It's a sign that the leadership is apostate and flat out, flat out. And I have no problem calling the clergy out on apostasy because that's what that is. I remember once I went to a church where they let the Christian science group use their facility on days off. And I said, do you realize that the Christian science is a non-Christian cult and that you're using the facility that's designed for God's presence and God's people, and you're allowing a cult to come in and use it for their antichrist theology?

And he said, everybody has a right to exist and blah, blah, blah. And I said, are you even a Christian? And he got offended because he was showing the signs of lack of regeneration, lack of discernment. And you're right to call these people on the carpet and say that it's wrong. And it is.

It's wrong. It doesn't mean we hate them. It doesn't mean we disrespect them. But it doesn't mean, no, you're not in that position. You can't be in that position.

If the elders don't know any better, then they're not qualified to be elders. Yeah, and I think it's more of almost like a cultural succession type thing, a position that people are given these ranks of deacons and elders, but they, from what I understand, not even qualified to teach. It's more of an office than anything else. It's kind of run as a business.

Social club. And this is one of the reasons, one of the reasons that the coming apostasy is going to occur and the purification of the church will also occur.

So God purifies things with heat, with fire. And so when we get so comfortable in our Christianity, loosely said word Christianity, in our comfortable America where we can have rainbow this and rainbow that and trans this, that, and cross-dressing people, leading worship and all this kind of stuff. It's just a sign of an apostasy that's already present in that church. And God will then take his blessings off that nation, off the people, and persecution comes. And then the impure are swept away like dross as the heat of fire purifies the church.

And I tell people, the purification of the church can occur two ways. One, you do it yourself. Or two, God does it to you. And which one do you want? Which purification process?

I'd say, look at the Word of God and Deuteronomy 22.5, do not allow cross-dressing. It's an abomination. You shouldn't do it. Take care of it yourself. Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I had to pick this topic up because there's a part two and three that I think will be relevant to our conversation. And I really appreciate you just giving it to us straight. That's what is missing from a lot of these places. And I see how the enemy works in very subtle ways.

Everyone wants to be so polite that they'll watch people go to hell. Yeah.

I mean, I'm not trying to be rude. We don't want that, you know. But it's like, I use the example here, years ago, my daughter just, there's a lot of clicking noises or something going on in the background there. My daughter invited, asked my wife and I if she could bring a friend over that she just met two weeks earlier for Christmas. She just moved here, didn't have anybody.

I said, sure.

Well, there's one more thing. She's trans, going through transition. And I said, okay, bring her over. You know, and we didn't bother her. We didn't we didn't attack her.

I didn't lecture her. It was a girl going to become a guy. And, you know, we just made her feel welcome. And I've told this story before. We even took a gift and rewrapped it for her.

So she felt welcome. And this is what we did. And then over a period of time, months, she became, you know, she could come over frequently. then I talked to her. And even then it wasn't dressing her down.

It was the things of God and very polite.

Well, anyway, she ended up stopping this transition. I'm not saying because of my conversation, but who knows? Maybe she just felt the love of my wife and I without judgment. But such a person could not be in a leadership role in a church, flat out. That just needs to be stopped.

So if you came into a church and this is going on, that trans person is now in charge of worship or is an elder, it just needs to politely say, I'm sorry, but this is not right. Biblically, you can't be in that position. That's it.

Okay. And you love the person in the meantime.

Okay. Right. Yeah.

Thank you. I'm glad you gave that example. Cause I think it's so important for us to be firm, but compassionate and just be bold for the truth. Cause at the end of the day, we, we all have to face God. And I, And I just kind of cringe when I think of some of these people perishing, and they're burying these people having church services, and they're obvious men, and they're in dresses and caskets.

It's really disturbing to me. Yes, and that the eldership will be under heavy judgment. In fact, you know, I mean, I've done this kind of stuff where I've actually stood up in front of Christian churches with literature. you know one church locally here had uh women elders and and you know after going to the church going to the elders they refused to have a meeting with me when they said they would they broke their word and then i said okay well go to the body of christ are you threatening us i said no i've been biblical going to the body of christ and i did and i went out and passed out literature about women pastors and elders, they called the cops on me.

So when you go against the status quo, you're going to cause problems. In fact that reminds me I have a friend I known since I was 12 and we were talking yesterday and he going to a church or either going to or checking out a new church where there women elders And so we got talking, and he wants to ask the pastor, why are you allowing this? Biblically, it's not true. And we got talking, long story short, and I said, yeah, they won't repent. He says, what do you mean they won't repent?

When you show them the truth of God's word, they'll repent. And he says, I said, no, they don't. I said, I've never seen anybody, any church group, any church eldership, when they have women pastors and elders and the truth is brought forth to them, I've not seen one instance of them repenting. Not a single one. He said, are you serious?

I said, yeah. They always justify their rebellion against God's word.

Well, you see, Deborah was a judge over men. You know, I said, yeah, that wasn't a church, was it?

well you see it was too patriarchal you see it was just cultural and I go and I answer all these things but they don't care they say let's just agree to disagree no I'm not going to agree to disagree you're wrong and you need to repent I've told elders this before politely, respectfully because they're elders they don't care you know alright I guess it's a tickled ear's time I mean, it's more pleasant to do that than to hear actual truth.

So I don't know if I'd ever call the police on someone I disagree with. That says something else. But, yeah, I completely agree with you. Yeah, Christian church. They called the cops.

They literally called the cops. Shameful. They should have. It was snowing, too. They should have come out and said, do you need hot coffee or anything?

You know, love your enemies, right? They blew that one. At any rate, hey, we've got to go, buddy. There's the music, okay? All right.

Thank you, Matt. Appreciate it, buddy. God bless you. Truth is truth. It doesn't care about your feelings.

Submit to the truth of who Christ is and what his word teaches. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Let's get to Scott from Spokane watching it and really fast. Hey, Jane, if you're listening, the one who called me yesterday, give me a call or text me on my phone. Anyway, hey, Scott, what are you doing, buddy?

Hey, how's it going? It's going, man. It's going. How are you doing? Yeah.

So I just wanted to let you know, I have a question, of course, but, man, I got to tell you, that trip to Utah last weekend, man, it really, you know, didn't turn out the way I hoped. I mean, there was thunder and lightning and downpouring of rain like the whole time. And I couldn't use my sign. I couldn't have my tracks because they just got soaking wet. I had to go buy a poncho from Walmart.

I did what I could. But, man, it wasn't like that time you and I went. I'll tell you that. But, you know. I was there the day after.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, they said it was the most rain they'd had in two and a half this century. I don't know. last century. It just set a record or something.

Yeah, it was crazy. I mean, I got some cool videos of some lightning and stuff, but not a whole lot of ministry really went down. The last day, we only had a couple hours to get to the airport, so I said, hey, let's head down there, do what we can. We parked, and then we got out. We started handing out tracks, and the minute or two into it, this cop ran us off to be here doing that, which is perfectly legal, but But anyway, you got ran off by the police.

What you do beforehand is you call up the local police department and you say, this is what I want to do, and then you ask what you can do, where you can go, the whole bit. You get the badge number. You get the officer's name. I've done that before. And then when I was passing out literature in front of a Mormon church, they came up and said, you've got to leave.

And I said, I talked to so-and-so, you know, on this day, here's the information. And he said it was okay. And that worked. Wow.

Sounds like some wise information. Yeah.

Yeah, I will do that next time. Yeah, so it just crossed my head recently. I just was thinking about theology and is, you know, perfect because we're flawed and noetic effect of sin and all these things that our thoughts and stuff. And then I started thinking, God used the intent of Paul to write. You're breaking up.

You're breaking up. So you're kind of working. Oh, hold on. Let me switch to my phone here instead of my Bluetooth. Just give me one sec.

Okay. All right. Okay. Is this better? I guess so.

We'll find out. Keep going.

Okay. So I was just really, the question was, do you believe that Paul, only Paul, had perfect theology? Yeah.

Well, it depends what you mean by perfect. Perfect as in completely understood everything? No. Perfect as in what God inspired him to write was sufficient and perfect? Yes.

Okay. Yeah, that's sort of my thinking, too. I mean, I imagine he didn't know all things. He's not omniscient. But his theology, his set of theology and held beliefs, I assume were basically as good as it gets as far as man, what man can perceive and believe.

He was taught of the Lord, personally, and he wrote what he did in the scripture.

So, yep, in that sense, yeah. Yeah, there's only one place in the scriptures where it brings, you could argue against this, and all that would be is, I believe it's in Corinthians, where he says something along the lines of, this isn't a command from the Lord, not directly from the Lord, but from me. In other words, it's not from God directly, but it's my own opinion. That's the only place where I can give a little bit of leeway for maybe not perfect theology, I guess. Yeah, it means he knew what he was writing was of God.

Yeah, true. Very true.

Okay, yeah. But yeah, that's the only question I really had. I mean, I got a few others, but I don't have them on the top of my head. I'm at work anyway, so I should probably go. But, yeah, thanks for your time.

I appreciate it. All right. Well, God bless, buddy. We'll talk to you later. Yeah, you too.

All right. All right. Now let's get to Anthony from Kansas. Anthony, welcome. You're on the air.

How are you doing? Greetings from the Sunflower State. Oh, good.

Well, good. Yeah.

Anyway, I had a couple of questions. I want your take on this. You probably don't know this, but there's a guy on YouTube called the Christian Polygamy Guy. And in essence, he says, polygamy is okay for Christians because it's in the Bible, and God never condemned it. I say, I think that's, I think you're going to understand the Bible is funk, but what's your take on that?

Yeah, that's a tough one. You see, because God's, the way God designed things, let's put it this way. In Genesis 2, 24, he says, the two shall become one flesh, male and female. This is the design that God gave.

Now, when we jump way ahead and we go into the New Covenant, we know that the elder who's supposed to teach sound doctrine and refute error and be an example of Christian piety and life is to only have one wife.

So what we can conclude from this is that the norm for Christians is to have one wife. That's how it should be.

Now, so why did God allow polygamy?

Well, allowing it is not the same thing as condoning it. God allowed people to lie, cheat, and steal. It doesn't mean he condoned it. And he allowed people to have more than one wife, and he warned people about that too. Don't gather wives to yourselves.

Don't do that. And then because it will lead you astray.

so when someone says that it's not condemned in scripture it's not approved of in scripture is another way of looking at it so the lesson we need to learn is that by multiplying wives that well for some reason it tends to lead to other problems so it says in I believe Deuteronomy 17 17 you shall not multiply wives to yourselves. That is, his heart would turn away.

So there's a command not to do that.

Now we're stuck with another issue then. What if you find a tribe where polygamy is permitted and then people are converted? Let's say a man in there who has, let's just say, four wives. He's converted to Christianity. Then what do you do?

Well, I would say don't divorce those wives because he's committed to them in that situation. You just don't take any more, and you can't replace any. The norm is one.

So just things like that. But it's condemned. It's not approved of in Scripture. It's permitted, and then restricted.

Okay?

So you could say in the Old Testament, God didn't condone it. It wasn't written a plan, but he just tolerated it. Yes, he tolerated it.

So if you go to Deuteronomy 17, and it says in verse 16, Moreover, the person he's talking to, it's administration of justice and things like this. It says in verse 16, for example, Moreover, the person shall not multiply horses for himself, nor shall he cause people to return to Egypt, to multiply horses, since the Lord has said to you, you shall never again return that way. He shall not multiply wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away. Nor shall he greatly increase silver and gold for himself. And so this is just something thrown in in the admonition list.

The idea is that the things that you might gain can lead you astray because you start becoming covetous and other things related to it.

Okay?

All right. Okay. There's a music. One other question. Sure.

Can you hold on then? Yeah.

Yeah, we got a break, so hold on.

Okay. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on here with Kansas. With Anthony from Kansas. Yeah, I'm here.

All right, buddy. you're still there good okay what do you got okay can you hear me yes i hear you fine can you hear me okay other question was um somebody i talked with someone who said the god of old testament is a hater and we have to look to jesus and um look to jesus only and i said that's a false because there's no conflict between the God, the Old Testament, and Jesus. Jesus is the Father Jesus is the Son he the Word You know I think the Old Testament is a God gospel of the old testament is a god of love new testament of god without i sorry the god of the old testament is a god of violence and hate and the god of the new testament is a god of love i think that's a false dichotomy what what say you well the person who says that doesn't read the bible that's all they don't read the bible because in Exodus 34, Psalm 86, God is said to be patient, loving, and faithful. He repeatedly forgives Israel after they repent. Nehemiah 9, Joel 2.

There's many places in the Bible where God is extremely patient. And then what you have in the Bible is God being tough on a lot of nations because the enemy, the devil, is working through them to try and destroy the Messianic line in Israel.

So God often was strong and was recorded there.

Now you've got to understand the Old Testament is a record of the history of Israel in a hostile environment. But it's, and the New Testament is a similar thing. It's a history of Jesus in a hostile environment. And so in the Old Testament, God cleaned house to make sure Jesus got there. But once Jesus was there, then God took his hand off the judging kind of aspect and let them kill him so that we could be saved.

So the people who say this just don't understand what the scriptures are teaching. Like the Canaanites, you know, wipe out all the men, women, and children.

Well, yeah, this is after a long time of them being warned by God, stop your child sacrifice. among other things they wouldn't do it so god said take them out so uh the people who make these kind of statements generally speaking uh don't read the bible they just uh go to a website and then they repeat something they've heard that's what it is okay yeah and they say that i don't follow paul i follow jesus things like that oh okay good then then good because jesus it says Paul is a chosen vessel. And you go to Acts 9, I think it's 9.15, let me see. Acts 9.15, I think it is. The Lord said to him, Go for he is a chosen instrument of mine to bear my name before the Gentiles, the kings and the sons of Israel.

So if you can follow Jesus, then that means you've got to follow Paul.

Okay. Well, that's enough. I have more questions. I know people are trying to go on, I'm sure. Thanks a lot.

Thanks a lot, Matt. No problem. All right, well, God bless. Goodbye.

Okay. Now there is a verse. Let's see. Paul said, follow me as I follow Christ. I'm going to find that verse.

I know it's in the New Testament. And it's, yeah, that's right. 1 Corinthians 11.1. The imitators of me as I am of Christ.

So in Acts 9.15, Jesus authenticated Paul.

So then you should pay attention to what Jesus said. That's what I tell people. let's get to nate from north carolina nate welcome you're on the air yeah man how you doing been a long time been a long time well um good okay hanging in there i was listening to you what you're saying about how they put you out the church and you stood up and gave them the word and and they put you out they did the same thing to me okay they have not even called done anything i went against the elders and i didn't go against them i just told them what the word says first and second timbers in the word of god and i end up knowing that the elder was actually the pastor and the pastor brother ended up being a bishop and she was absurd in her power and it's so i just got tired and i just got tired going i just left because they rebuke me on everything that I talk about. And I tell them the words. I mean, my sister's a pastor of a church, Matt, and you just don't know what I go to.

I guess you do. I'm familiar. What you do is you memorize the scriptures that speak against women pastors and elders, and you call her to repentance. because she's in rebellion against the Word of God by being a pastor and an elder. Yeah.

Absolutely. The power of man, yeah. But I'm going to tell you, they don't repent. It's hard to find a church. It's hard.

They don't repent. I've never heard of anybody repenting. I've given information to people and shown them from the Word of God what this says. Paul said, Do not allow anyone to teach or exercise authority over man, but remain silent. For Adam was first created.

See, this is not cultural. It's doctrinal. And that by definition, a pastor is an elder per 1 Timothy 5.17. And then in Titus 1 and 1 Timothy 3, it says an elder must be the husband of one wife. How can a woman fit that?

It's just as simple. But they don't care. They do not care because they're more interested in themselves than God's truth, what they can do. Yeah.

So it's hard to find around here, to find a church that one or two was not a lot, that the woman is not the pastor. Yeah, and I would be more than happy to fly out to that area, and if a church would host me, would we get to set up beforehand, and I'd do a seminar on the proper structure and leadership of a church, and why women are not qualified for that position. And then I'd say, anybody out there wants to debate me on it. Or you can get two or three women or guys, whatever, on one side, and I'll debate all three of them at once, publicly.

Now, I've been offering this over the radio for years, for over 20, well, about 20 years, I guess. And not a single instance, not a single time has anybody accepted the challenge. Does the Bible support women pastors and elders? Not a single time. And I've said this, I don't know how many times over the radio.

So they're not going to do it, and they're not going to repent. They're not submitting to God's Word.

Well, I stay in the Word. I continue to read the Word, send the praise as fast, and do what I know what the Word is telling me to do. I thank you for your program. I thank you for clarity. God bless you, man.

By God's grace. And that's it, by God's grace. All right, brother. God bless you. I know.

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Okay. Bye. And I'm going to say this so Jane can hear me. Hey, Jane, I want you to text me on the phone. Just text me on the phone.

We'll talk on the air here if we get to you, but I want to talk to you on the phone, too. Let's get to Oscar from New York. Oscar, welcome, buddy. You're on the air. Thank you, thank you.

Sure. I have a question. I'm curious. Is the Bible the only way that we are led by the Holy Spirit? No.

The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sins, and the Holy Spirit must live in you and work in your heart to do that, to convict you.

So it's not the only way, okay?

Okay. So, okay, so if a person is talking about their experiences, should they compare that to the Bible to find out if it's in the Bible? For example, if somebody says, well, God told me this, God told me that, should they compare that experience to the Bible? Of course. Oh, everything should be, it should be compared to the Word of God.

If someone says, like a woman says to me, for example, God called me to be a pastor. I'd say, in contradiction to the word of God, what he said, is that what you're saying? And I've had him say, I don't care about your private interpretation. And I say, well, it's just reading what it says.

Okay?

Yeah, thank you. Yes, I understand. Yeah, that's right.

Okay, thank you very much.

Okay, bye-bye. You're welcome very much. All right. All right. Hey, we lost Jane.

Jane, call back. And get on the air here. Let's get to Scott from North Carolina. Scott, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt. Thanks for taking the call. I have an issue with some family members that insist in trying to teach me to watch Joyce Myers. And I do not. And I cannot remember everything that this lady has said or done that I can put on them.

And if you can go over it again, the reason I shouldn't, other than she is a lady pastor, which I don't agree with women doing leadership in churches and so forth either. But I need to have some kind of ammunition to, you know, reach out to them. I'll hang up and not bother anymore. Thank you. All right, sounds good.

All right, Scott, what I'd recommend is you go to CARM and look up Joyce Meyer in the search engine, and what you'll see is an article that comes up. And I've got audio soundings and quotes from books that she has stated.

So she's supposed to be a pastor, and that's unbiblical, and she teaches heresy.

So, for example, she says this.

Now, this is heresy. Oh, and there's the break.

So hold on. And I'll get back to what she says. I mean, it's serious heresy. It really is bad. We'll be right back after these messages.

Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone.

Welcome back to the show. Now, the previous caller asked about Joyce Meyer, and I think I've got a way where I can play stuff on my computer and you can hear it.

So what I'm going to do is give it a go, and I'm going to play like four or five. It might take a minute or two to get through all of these. And so we'll see how it is, but I'm going to try something right now. Hold on. Let's see.

Here we go. I'm doing this. Here we go. And? He could have helped himself up until the point where he said, I commend my spirit into your hands.

At that point, he couldn't do nothing for himself anymore. He had become sin. He was no longer the son of God. He was sin. All right, now that's heresy.

He was no longer the son of God. He was sin. No longer the son of God. She couldn't argue her way out of a wet paper bag. She does not understand what she's saying.

And I hope you guys can hear that okay.

So give me a text or an amen if you can whatever. If you can hear that okay. I'm going to do another one from her. All right? And this is really bad stuff.

This is really bad stuff.

So here we go. Here's another one. Hold on. Do you know something? The minute that blood sacrifice was accepted, Jesus was the first human being that was ever born again.

Now, it was sealed. I mean, it happened when he was in a house. Do you know something? So Jesus was the first human to be born again. That's blasphemy.

Blasphemy means that you have to be born again in order to go to heaven because you've been a sinner.

Now here's another one. Here's some more heresy from Joyce Meyer. Hold on You know I was listening to a set of tapes by one man and he explained it like this and I think this kind of gets the point across He said you know why do people have such a fit about God calling his creation his creation his man not his whole creation, but his man, little gods? If he's God, what's he going to call him but the God kind? I mean, if you as a human being have a baby, you call it a human kind.

Now, I don't know if people can hear that, but people are telling me they can't, even though I've got my speaker on and the whole bit.

So all I'm going to do is just review them. And maybe you couldn't hear them. I apologize for that. We'll figure out a better way next time. This is what she has said.

I've got the text. Jesus could not have helped himself. He could have helped himself up until the point where he said, I commend my spirit into your hands. At that point, he couldn't do nothing for himself anymore. He had become sin.

He was no longer the son of God. Another place, she says, the minute the blood sacrifice was accepted, Jesus was the first human being that was ever born again. She said in her book, The Most Important Decision You'll Ever Make, May 1993, page 35, that she said that Jesus paid for our sins in hell. Not on the cross, but in hell. That's a denial of the crucifixion and the sufficiency of it.

he went to hell in our place and was tormented there if you don't believe Jesus went to hell you cannot be saved these are the things she said and she's just preaching heresy she says we can be called little gods she said she's not a sinner anymore the host of hell was literally on Jesus and was laughing she says she gets revelation from God revelation knowledge from God and she doesn't sin anymore I mean this is just incredible so a lot of heresy there and she is a false teacher. Let's get to Jane from Idaho. Hey, Jane, welcome. Welcome back. Hey, hi, Matt.

Can you hear me okay? I sure can. I'm glad you called. Yeah.

So I've been listening to more of your messages. And I have a... I love listening to your messages. But I listened today to the one on double predestination. Yes.

And I feel like you came up with how I feel at the end of it. Because, and I don't know if this is correct, but I do believe in the sovereignty of God. And I do believe in man's free will. And I can't reconcile it. And that's okay.

It's easy. I can reconcile it for you. What do you think of that? Yeah, it's okay. But I can help.

All right? Okay. You can help. All right. free will is the ability to make a choice that's not forced on you and is consistent with your nature the reason to define free will that way is because god cannot sin and yet he's free he cannot but he's free and so no one can force him to do anything and so we define free will as it relates to God's nature, not ours.

Most people, what they'll do is define free will according to human standards. They don't realize that they're making this mistake. I've tricked many people and said, can I trick you? And they go, sure. I go, here it goes.

Is this what you would say free will is? That you have two choices, good and bad. You can choose either one. No one's forcing you. And it's a moral issue.

And you just freely choose between them. And you can do either one and you just choose. And they go, yeah, that's free will. And I say, well, that's not God's free will. He can't choose to do either one.

He can only do that if it's holy. And people don't realize that what they're doing very often is defining truth as it relates to themselves and not to God. And that's what I try and show people about this issue of free will.

So Jesus, for example, he had free will, and he still does. He's still God in flesh, and he always will be. but when we go to John 5 19 for example Jesus answered with say to them truly truly I say to you the son can do nothing of himself unless it is something he sees the father doing for whatever the father does these things the son also does in like manner in verse 30 of John 5 he says I can do nothing of my own initiative as I hear I judge my judgment is just so we know that Jesus had free will because he's God and yet he said he could only do what he saw the Father do and nothing of his own initiative. But we would not say he did not have free will. What we would say is that Jesus was operating under the sovereignty of God the Father.

Now in Ephesians 1.11 it says that God works all things after the counsel of his will.

So when we look at the person of Jesus whom we know that he had free will, yet he could only do what he saw the Father do, then his free will was consistent with the sovereignty and work of God. There's no problem there.

So when you make a choice and I make a choice to wear a certain top, a pair of shoes, a hat, whatever it might be, we're freely making choices. No one's forcing us. It's just that the choice we make is not independent of God. It's not independent of any of our circumstances. It is dependent upon our nature and our essence, and it occurs inside of a context.

you know, in our house, for example, and at a certain time of the day. And for a certain purpose that we're going, I'm going to wear a fishing hat, but not to church, you know. And so these contexts determines and influences our choices, but no one's forcing us to make that choice. And so God, however, is so far beyond all of it, that the choices we make work after the counsel of his will. Nothing surprises him.

And so what kind of hat or what color of hat we decide to wear is worked after the counsel of his will because Ephesians 1.11 says so. Yet at the same time, we're free.

So freedom does not contradict God's sovereignty, nor does sovereignty contradict God's freedom. It's like saying that a child, you know a child, you know, you say, go in and clean up your room and do certain things, you know that there are certain capabilities and non-capabilities of that child. And that child will work within the capabilities the child has according to your direction. And you know exactly what the outcome is going to be because you know this child well. You know it's not going to be done very well cleaning up the room or whatever it might be.

But knowing what they're going to do doesn't mean they're not free to make a choice and act accordingly. All right? I'm listening. It's all right. You know, when I look at the points of Calvinism, the tulip thing, do you believe that?

Oh, yeah, I definitely believe in all five points. Yeah, I do. What about, I mean, if it's limited atonement, for instance, I'm sure you can, I'm certain you can support everything, But when you think that he, when John said he didn't die just for our sins, but the sins of the whole world. I mean, he says he was propitiated for the sins of the whole world. John 2, something, one or two.

1 John 2, 2 and 4, 10 and Romans 3, 25. Yep. And also that God is not willing that any should perish. That's 1 Peter 3, 9 and also 1 Timothy 2, 4. Uh-huh.

So how does that fit into... I can't reconcile this. I can, because I've studied the Word of God in depth for a long time and learned a lot of things, okay?

So a lot of people don't know that Jesus was not sent to the world. And I show this to people, and they go, no, that's not true. You're sent to the whole world. God shall love the world. He gave the only begotten Son.

John 3, 16, I know about that verse. But Jesus says in Matthew 15, 24, he says, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus was not sent to the world. He was sent only to Israel. That's what Jesus says, Matthew 15, 24.

Now, this is really interesting because it's a covenantal work that God is doing with Israel. But Israel broke the covenant.

So now we, the Gentiles, are grafted in. Romans 8 talks about our adoption.

so that's why it says he's a propitiation only for our sins the people of Israel but the sins of the whole world doesn't say every individual in fact in 1 Samuel 3 14 in the Old Testament God says I've sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquities of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever so yeah Yeah, and that's 1 Samuel 3.14. And I show this to people. And they go, uh... And I say, here's something else. And there's a lot.

We don't have time to get into it, but I've gone through this conversation hundreds of times. And I'll say, a propitiation is a sacrifice that removes wrath. It doesn't make it possible. It doesn't make it possible and then dependent on someone else's action. it means that by the doing of that sacrifice the wrath is removed that's what a propitiatory sacrifice is so in Yom Kippur explain that again because it means satisfaction right Jesus was our propitiation yes in fact let me go yes he was, he was our satisfaction he was our propitiation so if I were to go to Colossians 2.14 for example and it says this and by the way we have our third Thursday at my house on Thursday.

You're welcome to come and we can go through all this if you want. I saw that. It depends on how far you are to the end of it at night because I'm old and I don't drive at night very far.

Okay, well, we can talk about that, okay?

Okay. So here's the thing.

So it says in Colossians 2, 13, having forgiven us all our transgressions, verse 14, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees, which was also to us, you took it out of the way, having to nail it to the cross. The certificate of debt, their sin debt, was removed when Jesus was crucified. It's not removed when you believe. It's removed when Jesus did it on the cross. Too much of the Christian churches today are teaching a theology that's man-centered.

What they're saying, and we've got to hurry because we've got 30 seconds left on the show here. Again, I come. Yes.

What they're saying is that they, by their choice, activate the power of Christ's blood to themselves when they believe. It then becomes active for them. That is very unbiblical. It's never said like that in Scripture. The sacrifice is completed, and its power rests in the work of Christ, not in us.

So it's canceled at the cross, but we're justified when we believe.

So I can teach all this theology. I can do it for hours, and I know it well, but we're out of time.

okay so we'll talk alright God bless hey folks sorry about that we're out of time may the Lord bless you and by His grace we'll be back on there tomorrow and we'll talk to you then so God bless everybody bye another program powered by the Truth Network