A Conversation with Tony McVickers

TNG Radio, where today's culture and timeless truths come together.

It's reasoned relevant content apologetics, worldview, and answers to the questions that you need to know. From Alex McFarland Ministries, this is Truth for a New Generation Radio. And now the man who preached in 50 states in 50 days, speaker, writer, and advocate for Christian apologetics, Dr. Alex McFarland. In the New Testament book of Ephesians, it talks about Christ being the head of the church and Christ building up the body of believers. I love it in Ephesians 4.13. It says the church being built up in Christ, quote, until we all come into the unity of the faith of the knowledge of the Son of God, into maturity, into the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. And it goes on and it says, regarding doctrine and our knowledge of the Bible and our yieldedness to Jesus, I love verse 14, that we may no longer be tossed about like children, tossed back and forth to and fro, carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, and by their craftiness in deceitful wiles or deceptions. Rather, verse 15, speaking the truth in love, we grow up in every way into Him who is the head, into Christ.

Hi, Alex McFarland here. You're listening to Truth for a New Generation. And you know, the broadcasts we've been doing over the last four or five months, one of the things that we've gotten in response have been people from all across America who've been asking how do we hold our church together in these crazy times? People being forbidden to meet, forbidden to have church out there in California.

I think about our brother and friend John MacArthur. Grace Church has been under such, really, persecution. And out in California, Christians have been told not to sing.

So today I'm so excited because I want to answer some of these questions. How do we keep the church healthy in a time of COVID? How do we keep the church growing, maturing, as Ephesians 4 says, when we can't necessarily meet like we have been meeting? So many of the things, our annual TNG summer camp didn't happen this year because of the quarantines.

As far as I can count from February to the present moment, at least 35 to 37 of my own events that I was supposed to speak at didn't happen. So we're going to talk with a beloved friend in the ministry, Mr. Tony McVickers of Rockfish Church. Rockfish is doing it.

They're staying the course. When people ask me, Alex, can you name a church that you would say is really healthy and fulfilling the Great Commission, making disciples, and in spite of the challenges of the day, can you tell us a church that we can observe and really get some fire and some pointers on how to navigate these waters of 2020 and the 21st century? I always think of Rockfish Church. So with that, and we'll talk about so many things, but Brother Tony McVickers, you're a hero to me and to many others. I want to say thanks for taking a few moments to be on Truth for a New Generation radio. It is an absolute pleasure to be on here, Alex. Thank you, and thank you for speaking so highly and fondly of Rockfish Church.

You are a beloved friend, and thank you for having me on today. For those that may not be familiar with Rockfish Church, you are near Fort Bragg. You're in Fayetteville.

I'm told one of, if not the fastest growing city in North Carolina. For those that don't know, what is Rockfish Church, and what would you give as a way of description to clue people into what God is doing here? Man, we are becoming an agile, intentional, focused weapon in the hand of God.

I know that. That's what we want to be. I think that's kind of our desire. We try to make an atmosphere and to create an atmosphere where people from any background can come and they can feel comfortable and they can have an encounter with God, which is, I think, at the core of everything we do. How do we create an atmosphere that's conducive for the presence of God? Because that's where change really, really occurs. And God has placed us here on purpose with an internationally-minded community just outside of Fort Bragg, and he's offered us some incredible opportunities with some unique challenges.

You know, Charlotte, North Carolina, which is a very large city not far from here, I read that there are 120 languages spoken in Charlotte. I mean, down here in the Bible Belt. All across America, there are multiple ethnicities. So it's almost like throughout Heartland America, the mission field has come to us. Would you agree? Oh, absolutely.

And we're either going to take advantage of it, or we're going to miss an incredible opportunity. What are the things about rockfish that excite you? And for the churches around America that are plateaued or declining, as many are, a godly remnant, they love the Lord, but they're not necessarily seeing people saved. What are some things that God is doing at rockfish that maybe people could begin to do in their own communities? There are – and I say this because we've been trying to navigate COVID-19 and all this stuff with everybody else, and I say this to pastors all the time. I say this to congregants all the time. There's nobody for me to call. There's nobody who's been through this before.

It's not like I can pick up the phone and say, hey, what did you do then? There's not this sage book of wisdom concerning navigating these things. So we've kind of been intentional, and by the grace of God, we've made some mistakes. But we've also found some very practical things that have kind of helped us navigate this.

And what would some of those things be? For instance, small groups or Sunday school or Bible study. You know, in this particular state, I mean, it was quarantine, mandatory lockdown, shall we say.

How did you keep your small groups going? One of the things – you asked a question earlier. You said, what is most exciting to you about what's going on in America with these churches? The interesting thing that I've seen is we are being forced to think outside the box. We're being forced to put aside the things that we have went to, you know, our primaries, and really become agile and rethink things.

And that is incredibly valuable. We've had to do that in the area of small groups in every area. Some things we've gotten rid of completely. Some we've doubled down. We're looking at asset reallocation of things, spending.

Where are you going to spend your money? It has to look different now. It really is a new normal, and we're either going to embrace it or we're going to miss some incredible opportunities.

And that's what I'm most excited about. There are some good opportunities if we take advantage of them. We don't do change all that well. And COVID has forced everybody to acclimate themselves to a changing – these are uncharted waters – ultimately forcing the church to learn how to pivot and adapt.

I mean, Long Pool, isn't that a good thing? There are things that we would have – it would have taken us years to accomplish and put in place that we were able to do in weeks or months under these circumstances. So absolutely. Thank God. I believe He's creating, again, an agility, a flexibility that the rigidness we had before would have never worked. I believe God is going to do something special and incredible in America.

I don't believe He's done with America. And we are going to have to position ourselves to leverage every ounce of what God's sending, and I think that's what He's doing. You're listening to Truth for a New Generation.

Alex McFarland here. Folks, you don't want to miss the next few moments. We are with somebody who is absolutely, absolutely at the forefront of what ministry and evangelism means in the 21st century.

Tony McVicker's Rockfish Church. Stay tuned after this brief break. Truth for a New Generation will be back. America today is like a patient struggling to live, yet is being forcibly euthanized by her, quote, doctors. The life force within the patient fighting for survival is the honest citizens like yourself.

The team of, quote, caregivers are the local and national leaders actually contributing to the demise of the patient. The economy is crashing. Crime is exploding. The Constitution is being abolished. The assault on America, how to defend our nation before it's too late by Alex McFarland has one single purpose, to get you prepared.

Learn the real source of America's current problems that no one else is talking about and what you can do now to face tomorrow, regardless of what tomorrow brings. The assault on America, how to defend our nation before it's too late, available now at Amazon, Barnes and Noble and local Christian bookstores. Alex has written many books to help you defend your faith. One of them answers questions from skeptics.

It's cleverly titled Ten Answers for Skeptics. Today's skeptics are looking for authenticity, integrity and straightforward truth. And in the book, Alex McFarland identifies the ten most common types of skepticism that plague doubters' minds and offers believers proven strategies for connecting intellectually and spiritually with those who are skeptical about the claims of Christianity. Learn how to answer intimidating questions, identify the root issue behind those questions and dismantle the spiritual bombshells dropped by atheists.

Plus find encouragement to face hostility by persevering in love. The ultimate apologetic Christians can offer as a witness to our loving God. Check out Ten Answers for Skeptics when you visit AlexMcFarland.com. For apologetics resources, books by Alex McFarland and to find out where Alex is speaking, visit AlexMcFarland.com.

Welcome back to the program, folks. We're talking with Tony McVickers, the pastor of Rockfish Church. Hey, Brother Tony, by the way, what is the website of Rockfish Church? RockfishChurch.com, RockfishChurch.com. And you know, folks, if you're coming through North Carolina or you're going to be stationed at Fort Bragg or whatever, I would encourage you to come and visit on a Sunday. I've told Tony a lot of churches. I first probably begin to recommend people coming down here, I don't know, seven, eight years ago. You all have an amazing children's wing, beautiful stuff.

But even if you can't make a trek to North Carolina to visit this cutting edge church in person, you can at least go to their website. But I want to ask you this. Before the break, you and I were talking about being forced to adapt and things that we probably would have taken years to tiptoe into reluctantly. Look, when the world changes as radically as it has in 2020, it's sink or swim. What are some things that we ought to be mindful of so that we don't miss what really honestly is a great opportunity? There are four things that I have discovered, that we have discovered as a staff, as a church, as an organization that are incredibly important that if you will possess, if you will really lean into these things, you can navigate it. One is a powerful presence. We can never substitute anything for the presence of God, whether that's in our lives at home and in our family, if we're not meeting, or if we are meeting to have a church that's not Ichabod. You need a church that actually has the presence of God. It's one thing to have somebody who's a good speaker and a good communicator.

It's another thing to have the Holy Spirit working with them, speaking to the hearts of people, no substitute. The second thing is if you don't have a clear understanding, a compelling purpose, you can hang it up. To have that compelling purpose, number three is obvious opportunities. Now, this may sound kind of simplistic, but a lot of times we miss very obvious opportunities, needs, and transforming the culture to help people see those is important. And the fourth one is kind of interesting. It's something that we have done and must continue to do.

It's called intentional preparation. I'd love to break those down. I love, number one, the powerful presence of God. Number two, I think a lot of churches might rise or fall on this, a compelling purpose. Speak about that, how important it is to really know what you're doing. This might sound elementary, but what are we doing? As the body of Christ, we've got to have a purpose and a focus of what we're all about, don't we? A compelling purpose means that if it is worth doing, it is worth doing no matter what. COVID-19 hits, fine. So do we stop?

Is it an option? This is why one of the most compelling forces in our culture, this is one of them, absolutely, that if your purpose is an option, in other words, if your purpose is not compelling you, do you really think it's going to compel anybody else? So when something comes along that's bad, like COVID, for instance, we began to encounter obstacles associated with COVID and other things, and I felt as if God was saying very, very clearly, Tony, this is not a time to lead through this. It's something that you need to lead in, not through.

What does that mean? It means that we embrace the moment, we don't hunker down, but we open our eyes wide open to the opportunities that are around us because our purpose is just that. So I gathered the staff and we began to talk. We said, okay, let's do the hedgehog approach. In other words, what is it that we are looking to accomplish? How can we accomplish it better?

What changes will we have to make? How will we expand our missional engagement, not shrink back? So these obstacles actually drew us back to the drawing board and said, our purpose is compelling.

It's worth doing no matter what the circumstances or the situation. So we began to pinpoint our failures, and we were missing whole demographics on the front of this thing. And still, we're still filling in gaps, but we analyzed our current resources and our abilities and said, okay, we need to restructure some things. We pinpointed very clearly and embraced like never before, and this was the best thing to come out of it. We embraced our purpose and said, you know what? We are going to cut the fat. We're going to cut off the dead wood, and we're going to focus on what God's called us to do. And yeah, it took innovation.

Yeah, it took agility. It took changes, but it brought unity within the church, those gathering and those not gathering. So we created opportunities for those online who weren't meeting, and we had those who were meeting, which we have been meeting for a good while. But that was huge, having that compelling, clear purpose for people to rally around. What are the purposes and, I guess, let's call it the assignments that the church in every age is given? You know, we go back to two verses.

One is the great commandment and the great commission. When we're called to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and each other. The other is we're called to go into the world and make disciples. So we have taken that and condensed that and verbalized it in such a way that it's very clear and palatable. We exist, and we say it this way. Listen, I believe this is universal no matter how you say it. I don't believe it's optional, but we exist to make, equip and release fully committed followers of Christ.

In other words, a fully committed follower of Christ is a functional definition of a disciple. That's what we're called to do. We can't stop that because of COVID. We can't stop that because of opposition. If we have to go underground, whether it's a revival or a revolution, that is our mission and our goal. It's not going to change until Christ comes back. He said, Lo, I am with you even until the end of the age. It's not the end just yet. So we're going to keep on doing it. Why do we encourage other churches to embrace it? And you know, there's something compelling about that.

Somebody said of D.L. Moody back in the 19th century, they said, if a man is lit on fire, the world will show up to watch him burn. And when we've got purpose and a reason to live and an enthusiasm for life because we're walking with the Savior, I mean, that's a drawing card in itself, isn't it? We are seeing growth. We have a starting point class, like most churches do.

And for the first time, I was doing this class this past weekend, and I think we had like 40 people in the class, which was great. You don't turn out the light when the storm's on. So the lighthouse is open, but people are coming. But I began to ask, I said, Listen, I said, Why are you here? What brought you through the doors?

Overwhelmingly, they said people. They said people are excited and engaging, and they are speaking to us and inviting. That's the difference. It's not a gimmick. It's people embracing and understanding the purpose, moving in that purpose and evangelizing, telling people about what God's doing for them.

It's a beautiful, no substitute. But they won't do that if they don't understand clearly the purpose and the mission and the goal that they're trying to embrace. Hey, as much as I thank God for the pastors like Tony McVickers, but the church members need to say, Look, I need to invite my neighbor. I need to invite my coworker. I need to invite my friend because they might not know Tony McVickers, but I'm in their life, and I've got a chance. And 86 percent are saying, Sure, if a friend invited me, I might go.

So it's engagement, not attendance. And some of the challenges that we're facing have really primed people to realize that they're putting their trust in a bunch of junk, and it's time to really put their trust in God. So they're wide open. It's just, will we engage and leverage the opportunity? We're going to come right back, folks.

Stay tuned. We're going to continue talking with Tony McVickers, the things that we dare not miss in this time of upheaval and change. Truth for a New Generation is back after this. You know, Alex has been writing for many years, and one of his classic books is still great today as a basic introduction to the Christian faith. It's called Stand, Core Truths You Must Know for an Unshakeable Faith. This book will help you help your teens get off the roller coaster of doubt and onto solid ground. You'll read about the six pillars of biblical Christianity. They are, one, inspiration of the Bible, two, the virgin birth, three, the deity of Christ, four, atonement, five, Christ's resurrection, and six, Christ's return. You know, Alex mixes it up with humor and stories he gleaned from decades of working with youth and encourages teens to build a foundation of faith that will stabilize their lives and help them take a stand for Christ.

Simple and straightforward, Stand, Core Truths You Must Know for an Unshakeable Faith, available wherever Christian books are sold. America today is like a patient struggling to live, yet is being forcibly euthanized by her, quote, doctors. The life force within the patient fighting for survival is the honest citizens like yourself.

The team of, quote, caregivers are the local and national leaders actually contributing to the demise of the patient. The economy is crashing. Crime is exploding. The Constitution is being abolished. The assault on America, how to defend our nation before it's too late by Alex McFarland has one single purpose, to get you prepared. Learn the real source of America's current problems that no one else is talking about and what you can do now to face tomorrow, regardless of what tomorrow brings. The assault on America, how to defend our nation before it's too late, available now at Amazon, Barnes and Noble and local Christian bookstores. In the midst of a culture obsessed with relativism, Alex McFarland is a voice you can trust to speak the timeless truths of Christianity in a timely way. You're listening to truth for a new generation radio.

Welcome back to the program. You know, as we record this, this is the day that my book officially released, The Assault on America, What We Must Do to Save Our Nation While We Have Time. And I want to thank everybody because, listen, folks, it's in every Barnes and Noble in the nation. It's on Amazon.com. The audio book you can find at AFASTORE.NET as an American family association, AFASTORE.NET. But I saw on Amazon the other day the book was number 1740 in all of books. Now that might not sound like much, but 1740 out of I don't know how many millions of books are in print. And I don't make a thing on this book.

I purposely wrote it with no compensation whatsoever. And I'm going on a lot of media. So I ask for you to pray for me. My website is AlexMcFarland.com. We're also on social media. Please like us on Facebook at Rev Alex McFarland.

And of course, as I'm sure you probably know, we're streaming three times a week. But look, we're trying to get people to, if you're a believer, pray for America. Be a part of a local church. Be a part of what I think potentially, and Brother Tony, I'll say this, I think we're moving into what may be the most exciting chapter of America's Christian history. Because God is up to something. You said earlier in the program we're either facing revolution or revival. And I'm praying that God in His mercy will send an incredible move of the Holy Spirit.

And folks, you can be a part of that. But the book, I really do think it will inspire you. I've never promoted my book. Seventeen previous books. I write these books.

I let them go where God wants them to go. But I'm aggressively asking you to go online or go to your local bookstore. Get The Assault on America, How to Defend Our Nation Before It's Too Late. Please read this book because we're talking about each of us participating in what might be the greatest move of God's Holy Spirit in the history of America. But Tony, let's talk about recognizing opportunities and then, as you were saying, about being prepared and not letting these great spiritual opportunities pass by. Yeah, Alex, one, I think that you are on the cutting edge of this. Your book really speaks to that.

Please, Alex, thank you for the contribution that you have and continue to make to the Kingdom. That sounds like it's right in alignment with what we need to do, which is take advantage of the obvious opportunities. The deconsolidation. Now, the local church is incredible. I put a lot of hope in that. It's God's plan A. I don't think there's a plan B.

But it's the deconsolidation. It's the empowerment of the people through helping them develop a culture that recognizes obvious opportunities. In other words, I think a mistake that we've made in the past as a church is to think that we have to present every opportunity and everything has to flow through us. We are a place of preparation.

A toolbox, if you will, that helps refine tools that can be utilized in the hand of God wherever God sees that opportunity. And seizing the opportunity means recognizing it. So what we've focused on is developing an attitude, a paradigm that helps people see need as opportunity. Whatever that looks like, find a need and meet it. That is ministry. The very core, the genesis of ministry is seeing a need and then meeting it with the resources that God has given you in that moment. So how do we help people develop a culture that recognizes obvious opportunities?

Because think about it. During this season, there's been things that we can't do. A lot of churches aren't meeting. So a lot of those needs aren't stuff that's intermural type needs. So how does that work in your community? How does that work with you seeing a need in a neighbor? We've come up with some opportunities to help.

We've created yard signs. And I know a lot of churches did this to invite their neighbors to watch online. But I think the biggest thing was creating that culture where people were looking for opportunities to help people. Now that's a corporate shift that has to take place, but that's what we're talking about. If we're going to experience a revival, it's going to be like some of the great awakenings where they didn't go back to church, but they took that power and that presence and that serving into the community, opened orphanages. They took God into their workplaces. In other words, that wasn't secondary.

That became primary, and that's how it began to change the culture nationally. Speaking of in the workplace and talking to our neighbor, I'm going to say this. I don't say it lightly. People are afraid right now. I mean, we at our office, we've had a lot of people that they either don't know the Lord or maybe only nominally.

But I'm talking to grown men, business people. There's COVID. There's riots. There's instability. People are afraid. And I don't ever want to exploit people.

But what I'm saying is people are open right now. Would you agree, Tony? You know, absolutely. And that was the fourth point that we have seized on and that you seize on. It is the intentional preparation. What do I mean by that? We are trying to answer the questions that people are asking, not answer the questions that they're not asking. And I'm not being ugly. I'm trying to be nice. But traditionally, we have told people things that they're not necessarily looking to get. We live and I always phrase it this way.

I have real problems in this real world and I need real answers. And I believe that the biblical principles, I believe that God provides those real answers like nothing else. And the fear and the real questions that people are having right now, who better to answer them?

So the intentional preparation is the idea that when we do our sermon series, when we engage people, we engage them in a relevant cultural way, in a way that's going to speak to them right where they are. And like you say, I'm not trying to seize anybody's fear, but we have the answer. We have the antidote to that. But we back off. We don't address the social issues.

We don't address the unrest. But everybody, born again or not, understands that there's something going on. There's a shaking in this nation. There's a shaking in the churches. God is going to have his way. You watch.

You know, we began talking about Ephesians 4 and Christ is the head of the church and we are to mature up into what? The truth. The truth. Truth doesn't have an expiration date, does it? That's right.

That's right. It doesn't change, no matter what the cultural pressures are. I want to encourage you, if you're a pastor, if you're a leader, speak the truth in love. Do not give one inch to cultural pressure or social change. God is the same yesterday to day and forever. And listen, if it's built on the rock, it's not going to be shaken.

Anything else, anything else that can be will be shaken. Jesus said build on the rock, not on the sand. Tell us again the website for the church. It is rockfishchurch.com. Very simple.

You put in rockfish, you're going to find it. Let me encourage you. Pray for America.

Like Tony said, don't miss these opportunities because yeah, 2020 is a challenging time. We're praying for you. I want to say thanks to so many people that have reached out to us. We count it a privilege to ship out literature, to give guidance. We do our very best to help not only evangelize the lost but equip and coach the saved. Pastors, churches, families, we're rooting for you. We're in this together. And do you know what? In John 17, 21, Christ prayed, Father, that they, the believers, that they all may be one. Oh, any one. Unified.

Why? So the world would believe that Jesus is the Savior. God bless you. God bless America. Thanks for listening to Truth For A New Generation.

TNG radio is made possible by the friends of Alex McFarland Ministries, P.O. Box 10231, Greensboro, North Carolina 27404. That's P.O. Box 10231, Greensboro, North Carolina 27404. Call us at 877-Yes-God-1.

That's 877-Yes-God and the number 1. Or give online at AlexMcFarland.com. While you're there, listen to program archives, read Alex's blog, invite Alex to speak at your event or contact Alex with a question or comment. AlexMcFarland.com. Thanks for listening today and join us again next time as we bring you more truth for a new generation on TNG radio.