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May 29, 2018 8:04 am
Best-selling author, speaker and advocate for Christian apologetics Dr. Alex McFarland, best-selling author and apologist Dylan Burroughs together bringing you the truth for a new generation. This is TMG radio. How important is doctrine, we hear that word doctrine and often times I think people assume it's a divisive and it's something that you know maybe only preachers or professors or theologians need care about, but on today's edition of the program were going to talk about doctrine, biblical truth, why it matters what it is and we're very privileged to have a special guest that you needed just a moment, but this is Alex McFarland and with me as Dylan Burroughs and we welcome you to today's edition of truth for a new generation radio Dylan. It's good to be with you my friend greatly with you and I'm excited about our guest today we have Dr. Wayne Gruden research Prof. of theology and biblical studies at Phoenix seminary graduate of Harvard Westminster seminary and Cambridge. This is a guy that you may know from your Bible. He was the general editor for the ESV study Bible.
He's been involved in numerous works, including his well-known systematic theology used in seminaries and colleges around the country so excited to be with you today. Dr. Gruden, thank you for being with us longer to be with you. Will Dr. Gruden. I just want to say I really really do appreciate your time because you're a prolific author, you're an educator. Most of all though, your servant of the Lord and and a great emissary for the gospel and what Dylan said and no doubt people everywhere recognize your name before we get into a couple of topics that I want to hone in on just give us a little bit of your background and end your journey how the Lord brought you to all the great things it is that you do not get a better grade. I'm just trying to do the next thing the ground in front of me but I grew up in a Christian home and now in Wisconsin in northern Wisconsin. As a child was interested in student government and eventually in politics and thought of any go lawful after college and become a lawyer and a politician that the Lord at other purposes and under the preaching of Harold Dokken Gate Park St., Church in Boston. I went out in college. I sensed more and more the Lord calling me to go to seminary and become a pastor, but after I got halfway through seminary. I enjoyed the studies so much studying the Bible in depth and that would be academic tools of Greek and Hebrew available to me, that I went for a PhD after that in the New Testament studies and thanks for asking Alex that I think that I think that and where the Lord wants me to be in the intuitive research and writing enjoyed teaching in the classroom and teaching seminary student some combination of teaching and writing, and I enjoy trying to search out what the Bible says and make it clear so people can understand what what was your first published work. Probably my doctoral dissertation on the gift of prophecy and first Corinthians that was with an academic publisher and that was popularized by Presley books called the gift of prophecy in the New Testament and today and then commentary in first Peter in the Tyndale New Testament commentaries. Right then recovering Biblical manhood and womanhood which John Piper and I co-edited and then systematic theology in 1994 that came out. Let me ask you this, and I'm glad you mentioned recovering Biblical manhood and womanhood because I will circle back to that in just a moment, but there were was a lot in the news about what does evangelical mean and so look, let's talk about that word.
The Evangelical theological Society what is an evangelical my own working definition of someone who believes that the Bible is the word of God in the sense of theater God's word, not merely human words and believe that a personal decision to trust in Christ as one's Savior and Lord is necessary for for becoming a Christian be coming justified before God and that being born again and doesn't evangelical Thierry with that. Also the implication is of being involved being salt and light in the culture not just is not just that will go to heaven when we die, but will be a voice for Christ here as long as we live in this world. Well, if we believe dictated our Savior and Lord. And if we believe that the Bible is God's word, then we need to live in obedience to all of it, and that includes what Ephesians 210 said, walking in and doing good works, which, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. So yes should seek to influence society in ways that reflect the will and purposes of God. And I'm working on another book Alex, which I hope comes out in June now properly called Christian ethics and it will deal with a lot of those questions of involvement, society so maybe we can talk about that if you month will I hope so. Before we got into the definition of evangelical you mentioned Biblical manhood and womanhood.
I remember when I was a grad student at Liberty University and I first begin to know if your name we were reading the Danvers statement I want to talk about what that is and also complement eeriness and because certainly in our lifetime. There's been a lot of confusion about gender and about biblically the roles of men and women. So let's talk about that for a little bit. How did you get into really, and you've done it well. Defining and stating what the Bible says about gender and men and women. I went out in seminary and then what I've been doctoral work in the New Testament which would have been here greater than 70 to 73 in seminary and 73, 76, and PhD work. I was increasingly troubled by a number of Christian books and journal articles that were saying there is no unique leadership role for men in marriage or in the church and was feminism in the culture saying no differences between men and women and what that they intended to relate to each other and that was coming to the church in the form of evangelical feminism or egalitarianism me in a number of others that this is disobeying God's word which treats men and women equally in terms of equal value and honor and dignity and importance before God, but also clearly teaches that in marriage. A leadership role for husbands and wives don't have an leadership role for men in the church and some governing teaching roles elder and pastor.
For instance, and and so that was being challenged and I and some others down Piper my friend and some other began to write about this and we publish this book called recovering Biblical manhood and womanhood: to affirm the dignity of men and women equal in value before God also are differences which God has created and which are very good thank you this so well said not to greedily appreciate your discussion is so fascinating when you come back in just a moment and talk more about your new book, the worked on theistic evolution, a critique of the biblical evidence regarding this very important area of our Christian faith sick with his right first Peter 315 tells us to be ready always to give an answer for the hope we have were instructed to be prepared to defend our faith. This is Alex McFarlane for the life he answers teams students we train at North Greenville University, a leading Christian college in South Carolina. The life he answers teams are made up of students who will inspire and equip your congregation. These apologetics teams train speaking churches to youth groups and train Christians of all ages to address key issues of our times. From a biblical perspective like is there a God is the Bible true. What about gender and moral issues. Call me at 864977 2008 and we will arrange for the life interesting to come to your church and give a presentation that will benefit your people for years to come. 864-977-2000 eight and always be ready for centuries the Bible has inspired humanity and shape the very world we live but how do we know this book is the word of God, not merely the words of man, what we believe about the Bible is based on what we believe about the source, the God who speaks explores the evidence of the Bible's inspiration and authority to some of the world's most respected biblical scholars have essentially a geolocation source.
True to say that Paul wrote Romans is equally true to say that God's decision. We saw this and that sets the Bible apart from everything else in the ancient world and its religious pantheon of gods and goddesses. The God who speaks is a feature-length documentary from the American family Association available now with the God who speaks.all for there is no back to see you back program eligible for burrows in a very special guest freedom before we resume a conversation with Dr. good and I do want to remind everybody that I've been traveling the country working on some truth for new generation events that are going come up and 2018 and 20, 19 working on Murfreesboro, Tennessee that will be September 14 and 15. I'll be doing the debated middle Tennessee State University on Thursday night September 13 will be in the city of Murfreesboro with people like Josh McDowell and Jay Warner Wallace and great speakers.
September 14 15. Then October will be in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
So, as always, please go to the website truth for a new generation.com.
I was also got a newsfeed that's going to be implemented on the website and on the TNG app.
A lot of good things but Dylan is always our intent is to keep people informed about life worldview. Current events from a biblical perspective and so I want to encourage you it's for all ages go to the website truth for a new generation.com register, you can learn how your church can be involved and it's a great thing for all ages but especially for young people because academia unless your your child goes to a solidly Christian University after high school there probably going to be faced with some rather chronic challenges to the Christian faith.
So the truth for new generation conference will be the thing to equip and empower and inform and inspire and we hope to see you there and Dr. good and I again want to thank you for taking time to be with us. I want to talk a little bit about the word you mentioned in the first segment. The word egalitarianism we we really seen that on so many levels of society, not only a theological egalitarianism. The denial that there are any differences between men and women but culturally mean there's been almost this economic egalitarianism that that all outcomes have to be the same and and it's almost like we're living in a time of enforced egalitarianism to enforce it. Anyway it exactly as a scholar and Christian, how concerned are you about this and what can the church do to speak truth into a culture that is really often ignorant object. Well, the question again boils down to what is the Bible teach the word of God. What are the t-tests and then are we going to be obedient to it and with regard to men and women.
As I mentioned, there are. The Bible clearly emphatic that we are equal in God's sight equal in value that their different roles in marriage and in the church. I don't think the Bible teaches that the goal of life should be everybody be the same or everyone be equal in possessions, stewardship responsibilities, opportunity God made us all different, even in the angelic world there are angels and archangels and in the age to come and Jesus teaches that there will be degrees of responsibility that God assigned thing to one person you will have authority over five cities into another you have authority over 10 cities and differing responsibilities that are given to people and what we call differing stewardship and so on. Even in the economics here today I don't think God's purpose for us is all that we all be equal but that we should do our best work at whatever task God calls us to giving an exclusive cystic message in the culture is not always easy as it know, but I think it helps Alex if Leanne understand that if people do not believe that there is any teaching from God.
Any words from God is given to guide us, then all we have is a multitude of human opinions and was supposed to say that my opinion is better than yours and yours is better than mine. But Christians are distinctiveness, and we believe it.
The Bible is God's word and it's different from every other book in the world and that these are God's very words to us and he's taught us about himself and about the way of salvation. His thoughts how to live, and those those words in Scripture have authority that far above every other human opinions are human viewpoints. Dr. Gruden you are one of the contributors to the editors to a book that really excites me. It was on my desk when I got back to North Greenville University after Christmas break, edited by J.P. Moreland. He was at liberty when I was a grad student there, Stephen Meyer, who is a colleague we've done work through the Focus on the Family together Christopher Shaw and Doug Auger and yourself theistic evolutionist, scientific, philosophical and theological critique. Now this is a time I commend you 900 wow 1007 pages Crossway books. That's a whopper. Dr. Gruden out what is this book about and what prompted you all to create. Well, we became increasingly troubled about the fact that there are Christians in the United Kingdom and in the United States saying that you can accept the theory of evolution, Darwinian theory of evolution and modern farm you can believe that all life came about by random mutation and natural selection over long period of time and still believe the Bible and people are saying that but when you actually ask them what they mean by still believing the Bible they have to throw out the first three chapters of Genesis as being historical narrative meditates poetry and allegory in the Dallas fact about what really happened about how life came into being, and so they they eventually denying what the Bible says about creation will is is theistic evolution is true what what scriptural dominoes fall. That's a good way to say it. What dominoes fall at what we have is people saying evolution is so established as a scientific truth that we have to believe it. And then whatever in the Bible contradicts that will reinterpret and reinterpret until its meaning is totally changed that. But I was glad J.P. Moreland, Stephen Meyer and others, and I decided we had to put together a collection of essays in this this book. Theistic evolution has 33 chapters by 24 authors 18 science chapters 9 philosophy chapters 6 Bible and theology chapters all saying that this is an unacceptable theory. When people hear the phrase theistic evolution. Alex and Dylan they they might at first wonder what it meant by that, but it's just the idea that I even believe in evolution, and then he put the word theistic and private, that is, leaving evolution and irritated some of God use this process to great thing as reviews of said this volume offers the most comprehensive scientific and Christian critique of theistic evolution yet, please do. We look forward to hearing more.
Just moments stay with us if you're Christian parent. You of course want to instill a biblical view of life in the hearts of your children, your pastor, you want to offer ministry that draws young families to your church.
This is Alex my file and encouraging you to check out my new book and video curriculum. The 21 toughest questions your kids will ask about Christianity. I interviewed hundreds of children ages 5 to 12 and we address actual questions from actual children.
The spiritual issues that are on the minds of your kids everything the book and video lessons are great for groups of any size and was produced with the goal of equipping kids to stand strong for Christ in any situation. The 21 toughest questions your kids will ask the book study guide and video series. You'll find email@example.com that AFA store.net our country is falling apart, political unrest, social upheaval, the breakdown of the family. The rise of atheism. The rise of Islam are religious freedoms are under attack.
There's gender fluidity gender identity is making mass dream of expression.
So we need to put some skin in the game and love this nation. As Christians we are to stand strong. There has to be some personal investment in the living out in the preservation of his face help you become a champion champion for Christ in stand strong America Jason Jimenez and I lay out the facts about our nation. The current condition and how you yes you, your family, community can be involved in keeping this great Republic stand strong America is a guide for encouraging wherever Christian welcome that TMG radio Alex McFarland still in burrows. What an honor and friends that this is really really a special edition of the program to be talking with theologian scholar Christian leader Wayne Gruden and Dr. Gruden's website is Wayne rude him.com Wayne Gruden.com. His last name is spelled GR you DEM I would encourage you to go to your local bookstore or go online. Just Google's name you need his books and I want to say it's a joy Dr. Gruden every now and then.
Not only is it is a teacher but speaker sometimes I recommend this book by an author but maybe not that book your name is one that I can heartily recommend everything this man is written go to his website Wayne Gruden.com and again we want to thank you for taking time to be was on the program were talking about your work Crossway books, along with J.P. Moreland, Stephen Meyer and others theistic evolution. A critique Dr. Gruden. Let me throw this question out there has Darwinian evolution and really the worldview that he has things arose. Life arose in the creation happened without the need of a supernatural creator has this in 2000 years of Christendom been just about the biggest threat.
The gospel is ever faced, but it really is one of the biggest taxes because it is a religion for many, many people in our society. And sadly, for many children going through a school system and are taught that evolution is the answer for the question of how to get here. You don't any longer have to think that God created you and you're accountable to him. It was just matter randomly bouncing around and by chance and mutation living things came into being and mutated in them, behold, here we are.
So people are no longer thinking they have a God to whom there accountable and that really erodes the moral fabric of the society that people don't have a sense of accountability at the final judgment and also it makes it more difficult for evangelism because people don't have this instinctive sense that living things are so amazing they must be a God who created everything, but then I Dr. Christian to say I can believe in evolution and still believe the Bible what you mean by evolution.
Well, they say. Maybe God created matter at the beginning, but after that he didn't make any change in the behavior matter until matter just evolved, by itself, maybe God sustaining it with its properties but it just evolved without any intervention from God until all living things came about and we as humans have descended from earlier apelike creatures because of men Brenda mutation and natural selection, and then knit and then what what about Adam and Eve.
Well, we can't believe that everybody is descended from one man one woman because I'm genetic studies today show us that there must've been at least 10,000 early human beings that the human race has descended from oh does the Bible talk about Adam and Eve. Well, they'll say out of 10,000 people. God chose one man called him Adam and chose another woman in the to the woman he called her Eve and said now you two are the representatives of the human race. What happens then is you give up a lot in me that Adam and Eve were the first human being means they had they had.
He adamantly that human parents, they weren't created without apparent that the Bible says it means that God didn't create an amount of dust from the ground that Adam was born from human parents means that God didn't create Eve from Adam's rib, but Eve had human parents and interestingly it means that Adam and Eve were never sinless human being that they had a sinful nature and human nature from the time they were born Ms. Adam and Eve didn't commit.
The first human sin means that human death and begin with his office as a result of Adam's sin, because human beings were always subject to death, even the human being. The reliving before Adam and Eve means that we haven't all descended from Adam and Eve, because many people have descended from others. Of those 10,000 people who were on the earth when God shows one atom and one Eve touches about the importance of the one the Bible calls the second Adam yet which is Jesus Christ.
In Romans five in verse 20 and 15, Paul makes an extended argument showing that there is a really important parallel between Adam and Christ adamant that first head and representative of the human race, and then Christ as the second Adam or the one who succeeds where Adam failed in beginning a new a new humanity that it is a group of people redeemed by him and if we deny that sin came into the world through Adam and everybody has descended from Adam then we begin to wonder about the argument of Paul about the unity of the human race represented by Adam and then the parallel with the unity of the redeemed are represented by Christ doesn't really work and so evolution undermines the doctrine of the atonement – and same way.
That is a connection between Adam and Christ and the resurrection is by man came death, by man has come off of the resurrection of the dead, so the doctrine of the resurrection is called into question the truthfulness of the Bible, the overwhelming existence and evidence for God's existence and nature and evidence for moral accountability to God. We one after another. The doctors begin to be impacted.
Once you give up the foundational chapters of Genesis 1 to 3 and just say their poetry and allegory are not historically true Dr. Gruden were just about out of time again subs.
The book theistic evolution. This is a great great resource to help you defend the faith. Give us the verse or what part of God's word especially put that fire in your heart to be a champion for truth is you've been is the reverse that especially is meaningful to you. Well, one that I've come back to again and again in acts 2026 and 27 or Paul says to the elders of the church at Ephesus by Minnesota. The blood of all of you because I did not shrink from the bearing to the whole counsel of God affects 2027 and from the time I was in seminary. At least I thought that God had given me a responsibility not to shrink back from anything that his word teaches that to teach everything that his word says faithfully believe that all and say that we are accountable for obeying it all and I want to stand before on the last day and say I proclaim the whole counsel of God and didn't step back and decide to just five popularity I want to be faithful to the Lord and what I and what I thought of the faithful to his entire word will certainly future doing that. I want to thank you so much, not only for your time on this program today, but for your life's work, which is an inspiration to us all. Yes, it is very well said. We want to proclaim the whole counsel of God's word and I believe, like Dr. greeting the share. This is a challenge for all of us to stand firm in what we believe in the state faithful to God's word that he's given us to live out today truth for a new generation in association with Alex McFarland evangelistic ministries exists to equip Christians with the biblical worldview through conferences and camps for information about upcoming events. Visit truth for a new generation.com or give us a call at 877 yes God one that's 877 yes, God, and the number one TMG radio is made possible by the friends of Alex McFarland evangelistic ministries PO Box 485, Pleasant Garden, NC 27313 that's PO Box 485, Pleasant Garden Carolina 71 will give firstname.lastname@example.org generation.com. Thanks for listening and join us again next time. As we bring you more true for a new generation on TMG radio