REShow: Vince Gilligan - Hour 3

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Try Dove Men Plus Care Dry Spray goes on dry clean feel all day. This is the Rich Eisen Show. Brady and Gronk to come to the Raiders and at the last minute Gruden blew the deal up. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles.

I'm sitting here thinking you're sticking with that motherf***er. Earlier on the show senior writer for the MMQB, Albert Breer, Fox Sports rules analyst Mike Pereira, co-host of The Room, Jordan Palmer. Coming up co-creator of the AMC series Better Call Salt, Vince Gilligan and now it's Rich Eisen.

Yes it is can confirm right here on the Rich Eisen Show. I am sitting here on our set here on YouTube as well as our terrestrial radio network Coast to Coast. We say hello to our Odyssey listeners and then those who are listening on our podcast version whenever you're darn well pleased because it is your god-given right to do that sort of thing right here. On this very busy Monday we say hello to all everyone out there and we are thrilled to have here in studio once again the very first in-studio guest in the history of this program Chris Brockman. We were zero days old when this man first stopped by and that October in 2014 and now he is here on a very busy day in the middle of an incredible stretch just one week after the finale of an incredible television show Better Call Salt. The writer and director and co-creator of that show as well as the creator of Breaking Bad Vince Gilligan here on the program. Good to see you here Vince. Great to see you Rich.

Yes I agree round of applause for sure. Let's get into it here. How did you find the finale? What is the reaction to your work Vince is what? It seems anecdotally it seems seems really good. I never looked that stuff up I just it just it would it's like a rabbit hole you would disappear down right I feel like but I hear people seem to like it so I'm very happy about that. Well as you might imagine people have opinions. Our opinion here is I thought it was fantastic and I'm not just saying that because you're sitting here I said it with you outside of the room as well.

Thank you. How long did you and Peter Gould and the rest of your staff and the rest of your team and the rest of your uh co-creator Peter Gould and when how long in advance did you know about the finale that you mapped it out? Well we had we were lucky we had about 13 months in the writer's room right I think is what it was we had the longest time we've ever had maybe it's more uh partly because of COVID partly because it takes us forever uh to to figure this stuff out but we didn't know the ending at the beginning of that 13 months we were kind of figuring it out as we went as always so probably I don't know a couple months before we wrote that last one we had it figured out a couple of weeks maybe a couple of weeks now it all the little details I guess it took us it took us you know it takes a while it takes a while to figure all this stuff. Well and again I I just can kind of give a little heads up and you were kind enough uh in the back of uh in our back green room to give me the green light as well that you consider a week is enough of time period to start talking about spoilers are you fine with that?

You know what I guess anybody who's uh watching who hasn't seen it yet just maybe well I don't want to tell anybody. I understand if they do I understand if they would um and then you know then return to this conversation later on because I just thought the ending was perfect because you know because there's you know ways that either a he would completely get away with it or b he would wind up like Walter White spoiler alert dead on a floor but him being incarcerated and having to pay his debt to society which he particularly personally worsened because he copped to it himself because I guess he wanted to impress Kim Wexler is that what he wanted to do or redeem himself? I think he wanted to atone I think there's a certain amount of redemption the way we saw it there's a little bit of uh Dickens' A Christmas Carol there's a little bit of redemption in there self-redemption and and uh I think he wanted to atone for his his guilt and he wanted to basically apologize he did it on a very operatic way that wound up spoiler alert yeah uh that uh he was gonna get seven years in the penitentiary instead he gets 86 but right but he seems to be doing okay at the end he's you know he's doing the same job he was doing at the Cinnabon you know that's right yeah you saw the way that they he was the dough was being needed the same machine and everything so and that's obviously purposeful that you would do that sort of way just it's yeah one of those ironic things that he winds up doing the same job in the federal pen in Colorado that he was doing at the Cinnabon in Omaha can you walk me through what were some of the other ideas that you had but discarded for the end of the show I wish I had some good ones for you Rich I you know it's like we didn't really I mean you know you talk about everything but I had some good ones for you for Breaking Bad right but uh I don't remember that many this time around it just felt like he needed to go to prison it you know Walter White died Jesse Pinkman rode off into the sunset and went to Alaska and uh and hopefully he got away with it that's the guy that got away here's hoping knock on wood uh but uh yeah uh Jimmy really felt like he you know he needed to uh to to go to go to prison because and probably because he's a lawyer that felt like the most uh uh proper way to to you know the legal aspect of it you know getting going into the system felt felt right so I don't I can't really remember any other good ones Chris you have a yeah yeah Vince was there any thought of having him take the deal do the seven and be done with it you know what it felt it actually felt uh that was kind of such a fun scene of him in front of the FBI and negotiating and hey I got this I got this wait a minute I want the ice cream like was there any thought of that being the end now because we wanted to prove he could do it we really wanted to prove he was the best lawyer uh and and was was able to uh to to basically you know win and with this amazing uh bunch of legal talent uh you know uh arrayed against him he was nonetheless able to to you know uh pull this off so once he once we proved to the audience and he proved himself he could beat all these other guys these heavy hitters at their own legal game then we felt like man he's he's kind of he's kind of he's kind of got a I don't know it sounds very you know judeo-christian you know whatever you know uh morality whatever but you know it just felt like he he kind of had to he had to pay for sense yeah I thought it was cool that he pointed out that the guy he was going up against the FBI prosecutor had never lost I feel like that was kind of an important yeah note there and then he's like well watch this watch what I'm about to do Vince Gilligan here on the Rich Eisen Show and I appreciate you bearing with me as I just suddenly lost my voice right there right here on the Rich Eisen Show so you didn't consider killing him off you didn't that wasn't an idea that you had yeah yeah just I don't know that anybody wants to see that and our character of Lalo uh always called him uh la cucaracha you know he's the cockroach and what does a cockroach do a cockroach survives and it just it felt it felt like it was appropriate that he that he that he lived well it's interesting that you bring up Lalo because I think that's one of the many many brilliant aspects of Better Call Saul is the characters you created just for this show just for this show and Lalo Salamanca is one of the I mean that he was just uh Tony Dalton the actor Tony Dalton he was just remarkable and obviously Kim Wexler that you you created Kim and then one of the aspects about Better Call Saul that I was wondering how you would finish it up was did she exist during the Breaking Bad era like was she on the planet did she exist yeah and she did she she she she absolutely did and I thought that was why did you choose those paths for for the Kim Wexler character we didn't want to kill her off either we love Ray Sehorn she is just the the sweetest funniest uh just most charming person in real life uh she's such a and she's such a and she's such a wonderful actor and she's just fantastic it would have you know and it was funny Peter and I would get questions for years on end yes you're not gonna oh man you're not gonna kill off Kim you're not gonna kill her off and we go well you just have to watch and we had no intention ever of killing her off well you had to leave it open-ended right yeah but you know but it's saying you know you don't want to ruin anything for people so we were a little bit uh we were coy to the point of being a little bit uh uh you know a little bit sadistic maybe well you see it was just for those who know Breaking Bad and obviously that's most everyone that's watching Better Call Saul you're wondering how somebody who is so sweet on Kim Wexler and is somebody who whose moral compass always was found deep within the garbage you know in his world because of the way he felt about her and the way she kind of you know before she started I guess uh I guess acting in with him um that how that guy could be Saul Goodman watching Breaking Bad but as it turns out I mean it it kind of you know tore him apart in a way where he might have just thrown himself into the dark side completely is that a fair way of looking at it very fair very astute way of looking at it he to us he became Saul Goodman as a as a sort of an f-you to uh to to you know just oh so you you won't be with me so you you know we're bad together we're bad for the universe we're bad for all the people around I'll show you bad and it was just this self-defeating weird caricature that he became he he uh kind of hardened into this this legal caricature and and that was it took us to figure that out once we finally figured that out the the question Peter Gould would always ask which is a great question is he would say at the beginning of the of the run of the series he would say what is the problem that becoming Saul Goodman solves and it was a two-fold answer I guess it was if you build this armor around you if you're this this this legal caricature I keep calling him then you don't have any you don't feel anymore you're not you're not worried about things you're happy go lucky and nothing really matters so it's kind of an armor and it's also kind of a kind of a screw you to to the world and and you know when we thought wouldn't realize that we realized we you know we don't want to see this guy end like this we want to see him redeem himself and that's that's that's where the ending comes from really yeah and then what why shoot the uh current day in black and white why'd you make that decision we wanted something that uh we love black and white Peter Peter used to teach uh was a film professor at USC film school and I I'm a film geek we're both film geeks and we both love old film noirs so black and white just looks good to us uh maybe not everybody but we're old school and we love it and also it was a way of quickly differentiating the past from the present the past was in color uh Jimmy and then he becomes Saul Goodman and then the present is uh is is Gene Takovic the character that he becomes the guy that works in Omaha at the Cinnabon right yeah and and just becomes a guy who slips back into who he was slipping Jimmy one more time exactly he gets right back into that yeah why did he get back in like what what what I guess is the reason why because Kim rejected him on his birthday when he calls him from the pay phone like why why do you think he he's very self-destructive I think it's a lot of that that's what you just said and he's just got this itch that he just can't scratch he just you know I I'm and by the way nothing wrong with working on a Cinnabon in real life but no no no no I know you're not saying it I'm saying that all the folks are like hey why does my job suck so bad I'm not sure it does right it's not it doesn't but uh uh but he's just this guy who really you know he he the what was the old expression in uh in in heat you know the juice is worth the squeeze you know he he was in it for the he was in it for the you know he's in it for the juice I guess he's in it for the the the high he got from scamming and and also yeah at that last bit there he's just he's just angry at the world he's angry at himself he's angry at her I think ultimately he's angry at himself and he's becomes very self-destructive he's it's like he's trying to get caught in that second the last episode I think I guess the last I mean and it's interesting how he's trying to get caught and then he gets caught breaking into a man's house who has cancer yeah and the line he says to one of his accomplices who refused to do that job because the guy had cancer he goes what an a-hole guy with cancer can't be an a-hole yeah yeah and for all the Breaking Bad fans it's just like what a line that basically his history with Walter White causes him to have such an animus against this poor guy yeah yeah and that's what causes him to get caught yeah yeah yeah I mean how do you think about that I know that's I think I know that's a grand question just as like how do you think about that how did you come up with that I bless you for absolutely I love that you dug we're into it I know I love it I appreciate it guys and it's just it's it's it's not the most interesting answer but the truest answer is it just takes it it's a takes a village I mean I I didn't think all this stuff by myself I half the time I'm in the room and everybody else is saying what if this what if that I'm like yeah and I'm a beat behind but it's it's a group effort and it takes a whole bunch of us and it takes a lot of time took months and months luckily Sony and AMC gave us that time our studio and our network and they allowed us because you know back when I worked on network TV it was great I got to work in the X-Files for seven years I love that job but you were running for your life it's like you know it's like on the loose it's like an I love Lucy and Lucy and after with the chocolates yeah yeah it's just you're just you're you're just putting out the best you can put out in that very finite time period this this was so luxurious having all this time to and then you just game it out you say what if we do this and you think about it and you think about it and then you say two days later you say no that's not going to work because of this you're trying to be a chess player you're trying to game it out right 12 20 moves in advance trouble for me is not much of a chess player well yeah did you ever were you ever told by anybody again you've had such an amazing amount of success maybe not by anyone at AMC because the burn was really slow in the very beginning of your series where I I honestly thought it was going to be like a whole bunch of Breaking Bad people right off the bat yeah and it was its own narrative it was its own show which is terrific and it was great and you you had us at hello and you kept us all the way through all those years but did you ever get anybody saying where's where's the Breaking Bad in this thing did that ever come across yours these guys have been great to work for I gotta say I'm not just saying it because you know it's what you do on tv you know but I they really were a great bunch of guys they really didn't push us and I've been pushed before in the past on shows and you know right and and it's a better feeling when they let you you know they let you do your thing and then it's but then the the flip side of that is you can't complain afterward when it doesn't work like well they let us do what we wanted so then why did you do it that way it just felt right it just felt like the way to go and it you know and I think a lot of people did tune out I again anecdotally I'm sure I hear a lot of people saying I was too slow it started off too slow and I think you just nailed it what it was it was there wasn't enough Breaking Bad in it from the get-go and we we didn't sit down and write out a show bible and say here's what we're not going to do we're not going to have Breaking Bad in there we're going to make it slow you just you know it's more organic than that you just sort of sit down and you say where's this who is this guy right now he's well he's this hard-charging young wannabe I mean he's a lawyer but he's he wants to have success he's he's scrappy he's an underdog you know you you just sort of the story takes you where it takes you and and the chips fall where they may and in this case luckily nobody pushed us that hard at AMC or Sony to make it go fast is it true the first original idea was half-hour comedy not an hour yeah we did we talked about there was a show I'm getting the name wrong what was the doctor dr katz there was an animated sure that was a really funny show basically comedians coming on talking to a psychiatrist about their problems we thought very derivative of that excellent show we were saying why why can't it be done you know not not not animated but why can't it be you know people walk into Saul Goodman's you know iconic office and it's we could get a bunch of comics we could get you know all these great uh folks coming in with their legal issue and we we literally talked about that for a week or two uh Peter and I really yeah we did we because because we sold this thing this is like like people out there you know scrapping trying to get a show so they're like god I hate this story you know they're thinking watching this but I don't blame them but it was when Breaking Bad ended we could kind of we were lucky we could write our own ticket particularly if if you know what we wanted to do next had to do with that world and we said yeah let's do Better Call Saul and everybody said great and then Peter and I once we signed on the Donald dotted line we thought oh man what are we doing now what what is this show I remember you again you were kind of up to Vince Gilligan here on the Rich Eisen Show our first in-studio guest when we first turned the lights on in the studio and you would just come Chris didn't you say you would just come from the writer's room right just come from season one writer's writer Better Call Saul 30-minute interview turned into 90. I know it's pretty much what you were doing and so you know I totally understand why you know you would be able to bat around some ideas but clearly I think you landed on the right one and that and that yeah this was the the one character right like did you was it another character that you were thinking of maybe going or was always Saul from the very beginning it was Bob Odenkirk it was Saul and that was it from the beginning yeah you know what it was we weren't really thinking of a spin-off it's just it was so much fun I think the very first time anyone floated the idea it was one of our crew people on the set and it was probably only it was in Breaking Bad it was maybe only an episode or two after Saul had first appeared it might have been in season two Breaking Bad and one of our crew folks one of our grips or gaffers said you know when you guys are doing the Saul Goodman spin-off you really need to and everybody laughed we all laughed but the joke became it's kind of planted a seed in our heads and we thought you know that would be fun to do a spin-off we we weren't really thinking we it wasn't it wasn't this logistical kind of gee what we need to do next is spin somebody off who do we pick we just it kind of naturally grew from wanting to keep the crew together uh thinking Bob Bob's character is just fun to write it just ain't fun you know and and it really kind of sprung from that kind of a you know very relaxed and and and uh you know nobody was thinking that far ahead it was that that that that disorganized a beginning well I mean two things leaps of mind number one because that allows you to have as many characters from the Breaking Bad world if you set it when you set it which is behind the you know you know back story leading up to the Breaking Bad world and then have some black and white about what happens to him once he now that he is on the run under a new identity just brilliant that you could do that and then number two is Brian Cranston came on the show a few years ago to promote his book A Life in Parts and we talked to him about the the character Tim Watley who he played the dentist on Seinfeld and the scene where he took a hit of the laughing gas himself before administering it to Jerry and that was an ad lib that he did suggested to him by a member of the crew similar to what you just said yes he told that story lighting guy or something yeah yeah yeah yeah so somebody suggests you know what would be funny is you're the dentist you take a hit of it yourself okay I'll do that yeah and and then he said he did that and the whole crew broke up and then he looked at the lighter and lighting guy the guy the lighter goes with him you know like hey and he and he used a phrase that we use here all the time best idea wins oh yeah he uses that he's we use that phrase all the time yeah it's amazing that that's how Better Call Saul first got planted in your brain it is and by the way we the funniest line we ever had on Breaking Bad came from one of our one of our grips which is what I to me my favorite everyone's got a favorite but it was an episode called four days out it was it was uh Walt and Jesse are are cooked uh did this marathon cook in their RV and now the battery is dead in their RV they're 30 miles from nowhere they're they're they're dying they're they're dehydrating they've run out of water yes and Jesse says come on you're a scientist you gotta figure this out we got these spare parts you could build a dune buggy or you could build a robot or and and and you know and and Walt says I forget some of the dialogue but Walt winds up saying you you gave me the idea and in the original script you gave me the idea we're gonna build a battery and we're gonna and and one of our one of our and we had finished the day we had wrapped for the day and and one of the one of the grips said you know would it be funny if you said you gave me the idea yourself and Jesse goes a robot and it made everybody laugh on the set and talk about talk about a group effort not only did this wonderful crewman come up with this line but Michelle McLaren our director of that episode looked around said we got to get that turn the machines back on literally kind of fibbed all right flat out lied to our to our uh to our producer said uh we had a we had an issue we had a hair in the gate luckily back in we're shooting films we got a hair in the gate oh crap we got to do that last one and he did the line it's in the episode my personal favorite line in the whole series best idea wins yeah and it's cranston said that i'll never forget that line and that's the way it should be and it's not always that one i mean not every show is that way sometimes it's kind of rigid and sometimes you know showrunner says no it's got to be my way and i always think uh poor you that's like that's you are missing out on so much greatness uh by not listening to to your crew to the people or to the people around you there's they're full of great ideas and best ideas should always win i think i love it vince gilling in here on the rich house so let's take a break when we come back here uh we're gonna uh on the youtube we're gonna show a clip uh of better call sol from uh the second to last episode which you wrote and directed it's brilliant and then we'll talk a little bit more and then we'll take some people's phone calls after vince takes off we're back here in a moment right here on the rich eisen show if you don't know your numbers you don't know your business that's true when your business is growing fast and even more true when there's a lot of uncertainty inflation is running rampant supply chains are clogged and the labor market is tight what does that mean for margins well not every business is in the dark over 31 000 businesses know their numbers because they use net suite by oracle the number one cloud financial system net suite gives you visibility and control of your financials planning budgeting and of 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head as you sometimes think of i can't believe i did that like that's the international symbol of i can't believe this happened exactly and then it just boom yeah comes out of her crying hysterically yeah yeah and it's it's it's it's it's ultimately a good thing it's cathartic it's like and i and we had that discussion she's she works so hard she makes it look so easy but all the greats who all the greats make it look look easy but all i think most of the greats uh you know they're really you don't see you don't see the blood sweat and tears and she was thinking about it and writing notes about it and working on it for days and weeks leading up to it we talked a lot about it and i i said you know it's it's sadness it's it's it's it's a just this great well of of of regret and and and and despair but it's also kind of cathartic it also feels kind of good to let it out and i think you see both of that and then and both those emotions and that's spectacular yeah just spectacular how dare you make her do it a second time i know you mentioned uh not not ever wanting to kill off kim's character thank you for that i don't think we would have been able to handle it but uh one person who didn't make it out was howard hamlin did you always have this end in sight for howard and uh and patrick fabian's been on here this show multiple times it was going to be at the hands of lalo was it always going to be like that you know you guys would be amazed everybody'd be amazed how because you know i i i take it as the highest compliment you guys ask questions like that they're like oh and you must have had that figured out way in advance the beginning of of it all howard hamlin was the bad guy and that was our intention when i'm talking at the beginning of season one he was he was the bad guy he seemed like the obvious choice for bad guy this good-looking handsome you know pulled together always everything you know you never never a hair out of place with the namaste license plate yeah you're just the pump is prime for you to hate this guy and then we realized wait a minute the bad guy the more interesting bad guy is chuck mcgill played by the amazing michael mccain right uh and have him be the bad guy jimmy's own brother right so you figure this stuff out as you go i guess is the short answer and and i don't know when we came up with him him dying but it felt like if kim and jimmy are really sticking it to to to howard to howard there needs to be some consequence they don't see coming that's kind of the way you kind of do the calculus i did scream out loud i didn't see coming it was it was i didn't see it coming either i did not see it coming either and again i'm just again you know ray had so much of her character doing some bad stuff and bad stuff happening for her to start thinking about it in her head i'd love to get into her process that really was unbelievable she'd be great on this show i'm sure she'd loved it anybody from your world is welcome here that's for sure vince gilling in here a few more minutes left with the co-creator and writer and director of better call saw all right let's get into it so uh you got how many it looked like you got a couple days with brian cranston and aaron paul yeah we got a couple days with him did you did you only got a couple scenes out of them i mean yeah you know one together and then one separate yeah yeah yeah um why why did you have aaron paul connect with kim what was that because you could have yeah i mean you could have connected any dots you wanted and these are the dots that you connected um so what do you got for me on that front i don't have a great answer other than it just felt good it just felt right and we love i mean i just love those two and and both of those characters on their individual shows breaking bad and better call saul they were characters we didn't realize when we hired them both respectively for the both shows we didn't realize how important they were going to be to to both of their individual series we didn't know you know i've told this story many times but but jesse pinkman we were going to kill him off at the end of season one and season one was only going to be nine episodes of breaking bad and we were going to kill him off because i figured dumbly that uh you know he will have fulfilled his his utility to the plot he would have he would have gotten walter white into this world of criminality and then once that was done you don't need him anymore that was so short-sighted and then of course he winds up being you know integrally important the greatest band and the same goes for uh for for ray's character kim wexler she's just there wouldn't be i don't think we would have had as much love as many viewers as much ink written about to show if it if it weren't for this character array she's just fantastic and and so just seeing those two together that both number two on the call sheet you know so to speak yeah there it is outside of saul goodman's office sharing smoke yeah i feel so bad that night it was was it really pouring oh no it wasn't pouring that's all fake rained uh courtesy werner hand liner wonderful special effects genius but it was miserable it's just as miserable as a real thing to shoot in i can tell you that sure but uh it um it was it was months ahead of when the whole rest of this group was written because it was the small window we had to get erin paul and he was such a trooper uh it's just peeing down rain all fake rain but still being down rain all night it's cold and he does not smoke i think he used to in real life but i said you know just i got to have a reason for you two to be standing there talking as long as you are because the vibe from her rightly so is she's not going to spend a lot of time here talking with you so you just have assigned divorce papers she kind of wants to get out of there and he's kind of looking her up and down like man you're pretty milfy you know and and uh which is what she is and uh but uh uh the uh you know he was smoking these closed cigarettes and he was he was such a trooper i didn't even know this until late in the night he he would do the scene we you know you do a great many takes especially when like me you know you're making people do it more than once and he would go inside and i think he might even have thrown up he had such a migraine from these awful fake cigarettes and and it was he was such a trooper i didn't even know it until one of until my ad said you know let's do you have to do another one he's really suffering and he's such he's like the sweetest guy in the world well and then there's the scene where it's walter white and jesse pinkman back together in the rv with saul goodman in there and the rvs not starting and just the by play between jesse and walter it was just so delicious to see the two the derision and the anger and you know the odd buddy buddy aspect of it just back one more time with the rv not starting why'd you why'd you decide to utilize that moment we just you know it just because again you only had a small window with these guys and i just wanted to understand what your choices were with getting these guys back on screen i think in that case and that episode was written and directed by tom schnau's i think my one of my maybe my oldest friend in the world who i'm still in touch with on a regular basis he and i met at nyu film school and he just crushed it as he always does writing and directing that was a great episode and i think we were thinking you know we need to see how quickly uh this character of of saul goodman kind of takes charge of this situation you know he's on his knees with a gun to his head these guys are about to kill him uh or at least they're threatening to i don't know if they would have done it and then suddenly he turns things around and it feels by the end of the scene you know you you guys you two clowns work for me and that felt like the right time to to plant that flag and i haven't said that the truth is more complicated that i think saul goodman did live in fear of of walter white especially toward the end i think everybody on earth not everybody on earth everybody in that world did but uh but yeah there was a time there where saul is the consigliere who was uh kind of in charge of the operation and saying why should you know do it this way don't do that you'll get caught he there wouldn't have been as he says in that last episode of better call saul there wouldn't have been a heisenberg without me and i think there is some truth to that there's no question yeah and then of course the the scene in the finale where walter white is there with saul goodman and they're you know on the process of going on the lam and we all know walter decides not to do that and we that's the way breaking bad winds up ending the fact that the question about who saul goodman is deep down inside yeah and jimmy mcgill and why how he became saul goodman and and the question for this entire series was why why was he like this yeah for walter white to be given the line to reveal essentially what's going on where where saul reveals about the slip and jimmy story and he turns to him he says so you've always been like this and i just was blown away i'm like that you that you guys build up to this slow burn to have walter white deliver that line is unbelievable and the shot the shot that that peter set up from down below he just walks into the frame and delivers that line yeah it's so great man i'm getting goosebumps just even you know it's really and again i'm just wondering like did you specifically set this thing up to have walter white deliver that line when it's all said and done because he he reveals the answer at the very end you know that peter peter wrote that line in there and uh peter wrote and directed that episode and i you know we we plot these things out together as a team of writers but not every detail not every not every granule in this in this uh you know is is a group effort and i don't remember maybe we did talk about that in the writer's room but it's just as likely if not more likely peter just came up with that when he was writing it it's brilliant i mean that's the answer yeah like there there's no escaping him you've always you've always been like this so uh i guess before i let you go vince is what is next what can you tell me about what is next i want to keep again i better keep the pedal to the metal because i'm not getting any younger and i and i kind of want to i love this world of a breaking band better call saul but i kind of feel like i gotta i kind of try something new i gotta prove to myself i'm not you know kind of a one-trick pony so i am i've got a new project it be it'll be a if it knock on wood pitching it this week actually and if it if it uh if it goes uh it'll be a tv series it has nothing to do with breaking bad nothing to do with better call saul and it's not really does not center on an anti-hero it centers more on someone who is gots got some issues got some you know uh got got some rough edges but is essentially trying to be heroic so i i'm being a little coy no i understand that and i i don't want to pin you down to something that you don't want to answer but i i i am reading about is it science fiction and it is to me it's yeah and i grew up loving science fiction you said just x-files for seven years yeah and i would call this this will appear when people watch it or read it it'll say it's science fiction to me it's more allegorical but but yeah i'd yeah it'd be safe to say it's uh science fiction okay so then uh do you think we have seen the last of the breaking bad saul world then vince you know never say never i uh i i i don't have any i mean not a scintilla of plans to do anything else with any of any of that world right now as we record this but you know if i get my ass handed to me with this oh come on man you know baby needs to return to home base retreat come on no come on now man kim wexler attorney at law come on i mean i mean i mean she is the i mean florida she's starting to do it she's doing all the stuff down there now like we can do this i mean her her bar her bar license is not expired that's the way she's going to be i guess going to visit jimmy for for back steak houses i mean come on she's hanging out with her meets raising arizona we we pop them out of prison i don't know i mean we got such a embarrassment of riches when it comes to these characters i mean you know mike ermantraut gustavo fring uh it'd be interesting to see more what was happening with lalo before you know i mean but but i haven't said that i'm pretty cool a lalo prequel there's so many more seasons we could i think you would have i think you would have every fan that you have and there are many of them lalo that's cartel world i think you would be all in on that i mean it lalo leading up because you're opening up the here i am i'm pitching you now i mean the salamanca world um obviously the fring world you're you can go in any direction that you want right there he's a good by the way he'd be great he showed he's he's so charming he's such a great tony dolman such a good guy my gosh and he's so he is he is that smile it's got all sorts of evil to it you know i'm sure it might be warm in real life but when he's showed those pearly whites it was bad news usually for somebody so he was so smart and so confident the way tony was the way he played lalo he because you know he could literally you know that's a character that's so evil so chaotically somebody's not tied to the tracks yeah but he he was so smart to play it so the reverse of that he's just he's a suave like the most interesting man in the world you know and he's and he's he has no trouble killing people as we've seen time and time again on the show but it's and he doesn't he doesn't not enjoy it but he's not cartoonish about it he's he's just like he's a guy you want to have a beer with but god forbid you cross that out you better pick up the tab yeah yeah you better you know don't stiff him with the tab yeah i don't know i mean i feel like i could keep on asking you questions i have so many questions like just one lastly so the only color in the black and white world was at the end with the flame like obviously that's intentional but what does that signify to you like what was the kind of the meaning behind to me and we had a little color in the episode before when he's when he when he's looking at himself in the uh in the you see that he was looking at the laptop screen carol carol burnette by the way we could talk another hour about carol bring her up yeah but uh she's the best but to me that you know that's a good good catch that the little bit of a color in the end of the cigarette at the very the very last episode to me that's that's hope that is hope not that he's necessarily going to get out of prison although i don't know if they i don't know if they keep you in for 86 years really hopefully not you know with good behavior maybe maybe it's him i hate him with good behavior i don't know about him good behavior well they just let out uh with the dude who shot uh ronald reagan hankley's out of them so if hankley's out saws got some hope for him huh they're talking about sir hans her hand they're doing you know you get i think you know well you know i he might get out there we go yeah so you know keep a happy thought but uh but he uh you know it's i to me that's hope not necessarily that he'll get out but that these two respect each other again they she respects he always respected her i think that he was she respects him there's some love there it's going to be hopefully they get some visitation going on because i you know it's going to be tricky but uh but yeah to me and by the way carol burnette god what an honor it was to work with her she's she's a fan of the show and that's how she was a fan of breaking bad uh i got to holly and i got to got to know her and her husband brian uh dating back to uh gosh it's been we've known her several years now and then when this character came up the opportunity to to to use this uh to have this character i said to peter and the writers what do you guys think about carol and they said oh my god could we get her and thank thank goodness we we did we got her and she is just she made it was a tough shoot and she made everyone on the crew happy just by her very presence it was really tough with covid with bob odenkirk having his his heart failure right on the set and it was you know earlier in the season and it was just a real slog a real hard slog to shoot this at the final season and she just brightened everybody's life when she showed up all the crew she's just wonderful well i mean if i told you when you came in here on our first day in 2014 hey the season your show is going to last damn near 10 years and you're going to get carol burnett to finger saul goodman at the very end you'd be like what what but that's what happened we didn't see that carol burnett fingers saul goodman that's what happened vince you have always been so generous with your time uh and again uh i can't wait to see what you got cooked up next we are all in no question about that anytime stay in touch vince gilligan everybody check out better call saul and breaking bad all of it if you have just watched this and you haven't watched it we apologize but uh check it all out again it's as fresh as the the first day you saw thanks for being here vince thank you rich back to wrap up the show in a moment 844-204 rich is the number to dial here on the program um also later this week michael man the director of heat now the author of the bestseller number one on the new york times bestseller novels list heat 2 the sequel and they do a lot of what breaking bad did they go back in time and flash forward or move the story from the present day on amazing danny devito in studio on friday chrome soft golf balls i use them you should as well i'm just the i'm just the caveman out there your breaking par confuses me so i use the regular chrome soft there is a type of chrome soft for your type of game that's why it's amazing that's why calloway knows exactly what they're doing the chrome softs divine for designed for the widest range of golfers if you're a little bit better looking for more workability is the chrome soft x the chrome soft xls gives you a lower spin golf ball longer shots firmer feels still high spin around the greens guess what all of them are enhanced with precision technology which uses design techniques and manufacturing specifications up to one one thousandth of an inch that's what ensures they're the highest quality most consistent fastest golf balls possible when you add it all up it's so simple chrome soft is better for the best and it's better for everyone find out which chrome soft is right for you at callowaygolf.com chrome soft you ready for tonight tj tonight marcel in brooklyn new york you're here on the rich eyes and show what's up marcel hey rich good afternoon my man happy new yorker happy which i've been show i've never been watched a show since 2014 you guys are rock oh yes and tonight the new york mess and the new york yankees are the subway series itself finally i saw those amazons and abrams bombers coming together you might be no oh it's true do you know the new york yankees and the new york metts are true true franchise teams i think they did what do you think about that well marcel i appreciate the call and i appreciate your excitement and you tuning in here i'm uh unfortunately i'm uh uh totally confused about what he's referring to uh all i know is that this is a big series this is this is a big are you back with baseball now i started following it uh around the seventh inning yesterday okay the yankees are absolutely in the toilet sure is there tonight and then digram the next so this is what's happening yeah turn around stop it stop it that's what's happening the metts are treating this series like the yankees used to and and again like i said garrett cole got so upset over the weekend i don't blame him yeah i don't blame him there's not a lot of run support coming so they the yankees had to make that gary cole had to make that one run stand up and it looked like he had no hit stuff and then gave up four runs walking people giving up big hits and the metts look like the world series team uh of new york they really do trying to temper my ex brother you should just go with it nah i can't i'm they're sending sherzer into grom against the team that's you know i heard michael k told this story uh he not a story gave a stat that the yankees over the previous 10 games that averaged 1.9 runs per game and was a batting average of 174 the last time the yankees had a 10 game stretch with numbers that bad and those categories was 1914 that's how bad the yankees have been playing lately and now come sherzer into grom yeah but as we know and i'd sign i'd sign for one run each of the next two nights right now well you probably only need two against the grom because for some reason the metts cannot score runs with this man on the mound it's like super back in the day like gooden sometimes yeah they've always had that but this guess what man you got the better team right now that's for sure that's for sure but it's big games tonight i feel big game tonight game good luck i mean it's not it's a pretty bigger game for you than for us but i want to thank everybody for tuning in right here on the rich eisen show on the radio we're back here on youtube tomorrow youtube.com slash rich eisen show thomas q jones will be in studio we will see you all at that point in time but we're still here on our youtube stream thanks for playing the music no we do i don't know how we don't do for radio was that english i don't know we i play on that i i do want to i do want to say something here i do want to say something here and i i i don't know how long this is going to last but um as you know we went away for uh covid you know for a while and we just were we did some shows on our on zoom for a couple weeks we did yeah we did a couple weeks and as you know a ton of television outlets saw the zooms and saw all that stuff and i was genuinely concerned that the sports world would go away from premium coverage yeah or the or the regular coverage that you would normally assume for a broadcast or for a show would now be considered premium right and so everyone would start doing things on the cheap or doing things on the zoom and i saw just last week and as as of this current statement right now it is happening that the portland trailblazers are going to keep kevin calabro and the rest of their top-notch crew off the road calling games road games from their studio in oregon oh and it's just like was paul allen not the richest man on planet earth did they did he what's up with that decision the trailblazers are just jeez really gonna gonna gonna in this day and age now not send their crew on the road which by the way is exactly where all crews all announcers get their best stuff and they also know what's going on with the team because they're on the road with them they everybody bonds together as a unit on the team as well as those who cover the team and those who cover the team get a lot of respect from the players because they're also going on the road too they're humping it on the road also so hey trailblazers if you want to be considered a you know major franchise in this world where everybody's looking at damian lillard to wonder when he's going to tap out on you and he says i'm going to be a little bit more you and he says i'm i'm here for you and i'm here for portland and i want to win here what are you doing yeah tv and the radio crew that's weird what are they doing like that's going to be a delay as well right no well you guys i do it all the time it doesn't matter you're not there you're not seeing the crowd you're not seeing what's going on and it's totally fine if you're if it's during the pandemic and everyone was operating early option nobody's not operating there the crew does not own this is the nba no i get it the announcers need to be on site i get that because i do both but the crew doesn't know that i understand and i understand i totally understand i love i'm talking about the announcers and those and those to be there and those that need to be there as part of the crew with the announcers of course of course you know and so this is the nba there's 30 franchises in the nba and the portland trailblazers are one of them and coast to coast they are getting the personally i feel raw deal that they can't build a winner there and the fans are so die hard for this team and calabra is one of the best play-by-play guys ever they're lucky to have him i hope they reverse this for the real story behind some of wrestling's biggest moments it's something to wrestle with bruce prichard and conrad thompson too all-time hogan opponents macho man's got to be in the conversation where's andre for you i've always said andre was number one wow because even going back before you know hulk hogan was a baby face hulk and andre were able to go in and headline at the new orleans super dome at shay stadium in japan wherever they went that was an attraction something to wrestle with bruce prichard listen wherever you get your podcasts