This is the Truth Network. Coming to you from an entrenched barricade deep in the heart of central North Carolina, Masculine Journey After Hours, a time to go deeper and be more transparent on the topic covered on this week's broadcast.
So sit back and join us on this adventure. The Masculine Journey After Hours starts here now. Welcome to Masculine Journey After Hours. We are talking about the topic of gossip. And so I'm assuming you've listened to the previous show, and so we're not going to revisit a lot of that stuff.
And if you haven't listened to the previous show, you may want to stop this podcast and go back and listen to it. And then come listen to this one because we're going to talk about some different aspects of it than what we talked about the first time. And there's a lot of juicy tidbits about Robby. Oh, yeah. We're going to just, yeah, we're going to just lay out Jim this one.
Okay, yeah. No, we're not. But no, like everything, right after the show, if you guys don't know what we do, we record both shows on the same evening. We do one, we have seven minutes, and then we do the second one. And invariably, the best talk of the whole night is in that seven minutes in between.
We just let the mics roll, you know, and pick up that stuff. Either that or God's telling us. Do away with the mics. That's true. I don't know.
He could be. He could be. I'm hoping that other people find help in some of this that we go through. But. Gossip, obviously we laid out a a big case scripturally.
You know, there were a lot of scripture around it directly and indirectly. And so you can go back and listen to some of that. But Terry, you were sharing another scripture. about the fruits of the Spirit. I'm really attracted to this, to the Galatians 5.
22 and 23. It talks about God kind of Talks about the fruit of the Spirit, and that's the life of a Christian. In other words, if you could imagine walking into a like a farmer's market, and you walk around this area with all these fresh drawn fruit, and you can smell the strawberries and oh, you can spick all and I think that's how it should be when we walk in churches. You know, you walk into church, man, you ought to be able to smell the fruiters. You should act as good as that fruit smell.
But, anyhow, The very bottom line on that, that the The um Self-control. And I always looked at self-control and I thought, I said, man, you know, that would be the tap. of the bush that bear the fruit. of God's Spirit. Self-control because if you look at all the fruit and the love, the joy, the peace, the patience, and the kindness, and all this good stuff, it comes out of the tap, which is self-control, that very bottom, that very last statement.
Cause if you can't control yourself, you will never bear the fruit. That God gave you. I don't care how good you are at singing, talking, dancing, praying, if you can't control yourself. and maybe that little tongue in your head. You know, I don't care.
You're just a picture. You're not a plant. You know, you can't really display the goodness of God's. grace and all the stuff. And we as Christians, I tell you, self control is I mean, that's needed.
Every day. Oh, yeah. You know, in your homes, on your jobs, in the supermarket, and sitting next to someone in the booth that the radio play, it doesn't matter.
Okay. Self-control and respect and whatnot go so close. And if you can't do that, You can't bear real fruit. No. No.
No, it's gonna be stunted. But one of the things that I wanted us to talk about a little bit is, I think for some people, It's easier to not gossip than others because I think a lot of it has to do with what was your normal and your upbringing, right? What were your foundational beliefs that you were raised in? Right, you know, because in some families that is the norm, mm-hmm. And if that's always been the norm, it's going to be a much bigger battle potentially for you, or it may be much easier because you're like, I don't want any of that.
But you know it's gonna be very polarizing. You're probably gonna go to one side or the other. Right. And so Harold, you were sharing a little bit about your upbringing and then some a little bit later in life, some other things that influence how you look at this. Yes, two very powerful influences that have been there to kind of help me try not to gossip.
is first of all my maternal grandmother and my mother uh taught me from the time I was toddling around. that if you can't say something nice about somebody, don't say anything. That was one thing and then uh when I got older and I got into an Air National Guard unit. there was a communications uh base. We had to have a top secret clearance to be a part of the group.
But one of the overriding things was need to know.
So, even though you might have a security clearance that would allow you to have information. If you didn't need to know that information. We're not gonna let you have it. Mm-hmm. And so those are two things that I think are very important.
to keep in mind with your communication. No, I think that's a very good point. In all that we do, and we say this a lot on the air because it is the answer, you got to walk with God. Right? Because sometimes, you know, God, should I share this?
Right. And I'm thinking of one specific instance for me, and I know I've shared it on the air before. As an adult, I remember God telling me I needed to tell my mom about the molestation that happened to me as a kid. And I kept telling God it's not going to do any good. It can't fix anything.
It can't undo anything. All it's going to do is hurt my mom. And I delayed it for probably about a year. until he he put me in a position where I thought my brothers were gonna come to boot camp. And I was talking about the wound and I was going to share that.
And I knew my brothers, I loved him well, But I know at least one of them would slip up at some point around my mom and she'd hear it from them. And so I felt I can't and I had a trip planned to go down to Florida. And so I'm like, well, God, you kind of paint me in a corner. I don't have a choice. And so I went down and I shared it with her.
And as I talked about before, when I shared it with her, it broke her heart. I remember setting in a Sonic, we got in some drinks, we're setting in a Sonic because no one else was around, just her and I. And we're talking, and she breaks down in tears and and went exactly where I thought she would go. Um, blaming herself. You know, because as a parent, you do that when you find out something horrible's happened to your kids.
You know? And so But what was really cool was a couple of things that happened during that time. God gave me words to love on her. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
in her need right there. And through the next 45 minutes as we sat there and Uh Listen to her anger, her tears. And we talked. We came much closer than we've ever been. Right, and she didn't keep that guilt, she didn't wear that guilt, we were able to pray through that.
Mm-hmm. You know, and I just could see, okay, God, your hand was there. And so, I want to also encourage you: you know, these are great rules like Harold laid out. You know, and there's other rules, like Darren, you shared one if it's not going to be uplifting. Yeah, I mean it I mean that's as biblical as it gets.
If it's not going to edify the people who hear it, if it's not going to be grace to them. Don't say it. I mean, that's just, it's as biblical of a command. And I mean, we talk about grace a lot on this show, and we're all about grace, but. There's still obedience and God expects us to obey These talking points or not talking points, if you will, right?
And and yet, you know, our our entire society is the exact opposite of that. I mean, most of the television that's on is either real gossip. about Hollywood wives or politicians or stars or, you know, whatever. Fill in the blank. Fill in the blank.
Or it's a fake show about gossip or, you know, things that are Lascivious, you know, I mean, I guess is the best way to put it, but um. We live in that society where it is. Very, very easy to do. And I remember when I first started. The very first church that I was a preacher at when I was like, I don't know, 25, 26 years old, fresh out of seminary and dumb as a rock.
I had these two sweet sisters, I won't use their last names. They might still be alive, I doubt it. And this was in a different state, but. they used to come stop by the church building, and they were very sweet. But it didn't take very long before they would say, Well, now you know about You've heard about Well, you know they.
And at first I was like. And then one day it hit me, I was like, I don't want to know that about them. I mean, I don't want to know that. I want to be able to. Make my own judgment about that person's character and about the way the spirit may be moving in their life today.
I don't want to know about what it is. And that's the way it hit me then.
Now, I would handle that very differently. But at some point, I finally just looked at them and I said, Have you went and talked to them about that? And they were like, well, no, we couldn't do that. And I was like, well, then why are you talking to me about it? And I was only like 25 and I seriously, I wasn't.
graceful enough to know how to handle that without being angry with them. And maybe I should have been angry, I don't know, but I was. And it was very frustrating. And I remember calling one of my professors and saying, What do I do with this? You know, I mean, I understand the biblical precedents, but how do I deal with the relational dynamic that is here?
That's the stuff that I didn't have. And, you know, I got some really good, wise words from that. But I'm glad that I got that early because it didn't. take very much longer before the particular church that I was preaching in, I preached expositorily. I preached from scripture.
I didn't you know, go everywhere preaching the gospel and different topics. because I didn't think I was smart enough to preach topically. And yet I would preach a sermon. And then I would have a friend down in West Virginia or some place, call me and go, Hey, I heard you said so-and-so on Sunday.
Well How did you hear that?
Well, I was talking to this other preacher down in blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and he told me. And I'm like, well, he wasn't at church on Sunday. How in the world did he hear it? And so And it was never what I had actually said. It was just an accusation of me being liberal in a very conservative world or something along those lines.
If it weren't for, you know, some of that early stuff. I don't know how I would have handled you know, that other stuff. But Gossip is as evil as we are making it out to be, because it destroys The kingdom of God. It destroys churches, it destroys families. And not every family is like yours, Sam.
I mean I would like to say my family was, but it wasn't. I I had a number of people in my family that thought it perfectly fine to talk about what so-and-so said or what so-and-so did and And all of that to the point where I thought it was fairly normal. I mean, I, you know, it never hit me that, oh, that's wrong. They shouldn't be talking like that until I got older, went to seminary, different things like that, began to grow in Christ. And it was it was quite a Dynamic that had already begun in my life where I didn't think anything of saying, well, you know, so-and-so said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
wasn't mine to say. But Most of people today are not growing up in the household that you and Harold grew up in. And thankfully, most people did back then. But I would venture to say most people today are not in that house. Yeah, what Darren's talking about is, I shared off the air.
Growing up, My mom's rule was If it's not yours to share, don't share it. Right? If someone's not going to get hurt. If someone's not gonna hurt themselves or hurt someone else, and if it's not illegal, Mm-hmm. I don't want to know about it.
Right, and so as we'd start to share something, she'd say, Is that yours to share? Right. And it was so impactful to me I raised my kids that way. You know, and it's just something that I've always believed in. If it's not my news to share, I don't really feel like I need to share that.
Right. And and that was just wired in me. Yeah. You know, and so when I do feel like I've gossiped and I know I have gossiped, it tears me up because I'm going against everything that I believed in growing up. Yeah.
And Grant, that was kind of similar for you, wasn't it? Yes, except. that your comment there just kind of limits my conversation. Yeah. That's true.
Yeah, if you gossip all the time, then you just can't really talk to anybody anymore. That's a great point, Grant. I want to go to another clip. We have one more clip. I'm not going to tell you the movie it's from.
Uh 'cause I don't want to. Um I don't really like the the topic of the movie. It doesn't make it a clip that's not good. Right, but it it's a priest who is preaching on the topic of gossip. And he's telling a story about a lady that went in and shared with another priest.
in the confessional that she had gossiped, And this is where we pick it up when she's, you know, saying that she feels sorry about it. And listen to how it plays out. Yeah. The woman said she was sorry. and ask for forgiveness.
Not so fast. Scissor work. I want you to go home. Take a pillar upon your roof. Cut it open with a knife.
Then return here to me.
So the woman went home. Took a pillow off her bed. A knife from the drawer. went up the fire escape to a roof. and stab the pillow.
Then she went back to the old parish priest as instructed. Did you gut the pillow with a knife? He says. Yes, Father. And what was the result?
Frothers? She said. Feathers He repeated. Feathers. Everywhere, Father.
Now I want you to go back. and gather up every last feather that flew out on the wind.
Well She said It can't be done. I don't know where they went. The wind took them all over. And that. said Father O'Rourke.
is gossip. Kind of powerful. That's hard. Yeah, man. That's really hard.
Um But it's so true. I mean, you know, we use phrases like, you know, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tubes, things like that. And that's exactly what that is. You can't put the feathers back in the pillow, not on a windy day. And life is windy.
So you say something you're not supposed to say. It's probably going to go someplace it wasn't supposed to go. And you have no control over, well, yeah, but I didn't know that person, I didn't know they were going to say something to somebody else. And It doesn't matter. That's why you don't say it to begin with to quote Harold.
Um I had a boss early on in life. When um He had been the Senior VP of the world's largest freight company. And was pretty good with Dealing with people, you know, he'd learned the art of human behavior in essence. and uh he'd learned it well. And I remember one time I went into his office and I said, Andy.
So and so said That blah blah blah blah blah. And he goes, Really, did he? And I said, Yeah, he did. And he said, Well, why did he say that? I said, I don't know why he said that, but that's what he said.
And he said, Okay.
Well, And he got on the speaker and he and he called so-and-so and he said, Hey, come in my office, please. And I'm sitting there going, What? And he. He said, Well, Darren just came in my office and said that you said blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Now, I was telling the truth. And I was talking to the guy that was my boss and I was frustrated with what the guy had said, right? And that guy turned 18 shades of pink, you know, and was like, no, no, no, no, that's not what I said. And I was like, yes, you did say that. And He immediately said, Well, that's not what I meant.
What I meant was, and Andy said, So. Have you learned a lesson? And the guy was like, Yeah. And now he wasn't the only one that learned a lesson. I learned a lesson too about, hey, I'm going to be very careful about who I rat out.
Because, but I learned and I started practicing that honestly. When somebody would come into me, well, so-and-so said that you said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I would go, Hey, come in here. And write, and they'd go, Well, no, let me leave the office. No, you sit down there because we're going to have a talk.
And I kind of raised my kids that way. I mean, kind of that same principle of. of you know they would come in to tattle on each other and I'd say look whoa whoa whoa Is anybody bleeding? Mhm. No.
Is anybody dying? No. Shut up. I mean, that was about as blunt as I could be. Go deal with it.
I don't want to know unless somebody's bleeding or dying. That's absolutely it. You know, I've learned that the polite way, and like you said, you were talking, that was kind of like almost the polite way, but Um dealing with men. And as we progress in life, we become that man, whatever it is that God creates. And men need to be disciplined.
Sometimes it takes another man to discipline him, you know, like mentor and whatever, show him. And one of the things we do, one of the things I've been practicing, it happens a lot. We'll talk, we'll have a conversation. And it might get a little stupid there for a minute. I mean like, you know, if we talk about somebody for ten minutes, We have to put at least five minutes of prayer in.
You know, you have to put just as much Talk just as much time of serious prayer as you did in that conversation. Because other than that, it is gossip. You know? You, me, as Christian men, we just can't talk about it no more. We got to pray about it even before we say it, if we think about it.
Yeah. Yeah, that's very convicting, Terry. I mean, it really is. I'm not joking. Mm.
Bye. I can't I mean I couldn't count the number of times I've had a conversation about something that was deep. And didn't have that same amount of prayer or even. Marginally the same amount of prayer in that thing. At least acknowledge God and ask Him if He would to cover it, to make it right, to do whatever, but be sincere from your heart, as serious as you were to put that thing out.
Yeah. Yeah. So did anybody keep track of the number of minutes we've talked about Robby tonight? Because we need to go pray for him. Yes, I'll try to add it up.
Good for Robby. I mean, he probably needs it. He definitely needs the prayer, from what I heard. Art, you got something you want to add? I was just trying to tell Terry to talk into the microphone.
He's sitting back from it. I can't hear you too good. Yeah, and yeah, I was gonna gossip about Terry on the show tonight, and then he showed up. He's here. We can't talk about him either.
So, you know, I don't know. He's got a hat that's got like patches on top of it, like Clarence Carter. I don't have a hat on. I got a patch all right. It's just clean.
Yeah. A couple of things I want to touch on on on gossip. One is Even if you hear one side of the story And you don't hear the other side. You know, I'm a firm believer that the truth's always somewhere in the middle. Everybody has their perspective.
and in their eyes their perspective is truth. but somewhere in the middle it may be shaded to one side or the other, But it's never going to be fully one or the other. Right. Right. And so, and the other thing I want to kind of lay out there is some of the danger in gossip.
is you get a perception of somebody. And then, what you naturally try to do is you start looking for evidence to support that perception. Right? Yeah. And we're good at building a case.
Exactly. Right? I mean, the enemy taught us well. Oh, yeah. You know, and we can have that person convicted of something they never did.
That's in the clip we played in the last show when Michael was trying to throw some shade on. Stanley, you know, and at least the lady called him out on it and said, You need to get your facts straight, right? But it's easy for us to say, okay, I'm going to buy this as truth. 'Cause I don't know any different, and then start building and and destroying somebody's character in our own mind. When we have no idea that that's even what's going on.
Yeah, and it's so hard to To stop in the moment when you're hearing somebody say something. Yeah. Um, And s and go, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait. I I don't want to hear it. Because I don't I don't want your opinion of somebody else to taint.
my experience with that person. Mm-hmm. Um It's not easy to do. It's not easy. That reminds me a lot of what I was thinking.
There is no Clean Good gossip. There's not. Because we're not supposed to from the Bible. It is. You know, I'm thinking about I do gossip.
Every day I talk to a friend of mine at work, and we complain about our day to each other. And we complain about people. You know, that's advice. Often a trade partner. Right?
And it it feels like there's nothing wrong because I'm just voicing my frustration to a friend to get it out. But at the end of the day, I'm changing his perception of other people. He's influencing my perception of people. And there's nothing wholesome that's going to come from it. Other than me, maybe not having a heart attack.
But it's, you know, he's talking me off the ledge or something, you know. But there is a little good, and mostly probably not good, that comes from it. You know, and I couldn't think of something earlier, but I kind of do that every day. Yeah, I mean, that's why you need somebody that's safe to talk to that doesn't have anything to do with your job. Yeah.
That doesn't know the people on your job, whatever, you know, and maybe it's a little bit safer then. And especially if you're talking to a brother, sister, partner um who can say Are you sure you're really thinking through that correctly? You know, and just kind of push back. Which we do that with each other. I mean, all of us kind of do that with each other.
Sometimes not as much as we probably should and maybe other times more than we should, but But that's the beauty of walking with a band of brothers. Um Swine guys ought to come to a boot camp. Oh, yeah, we have one coming up, which I'll talk about here in a second. One thing I'm going to share is: God reminded me of this thought. When I was the boss, Back in the day, and I had a lot of people work for me.
When we'd have a function, when the spouse came, I knew exactly how that guy felt about me by the way the wife reacted when she met me. You know, if she was very standoffish, yeah, if she was very standoffish, I'm like, okay, I got an insight to how he talks about me. Because he would go home and even talk about it, right? If they're like, oh, I'm so glad the beach, oh, yeah, I'm in a good spot there. Anyway, we do have a boot camp coming up.
It's coming up in March, and it's March 12th through 15th in Royston, Georgia. Beautiful camp down there. Darren, this was your first time down there. What did you think of the camp? I loved it.
I really did. I enjoyed it. It's in a really neat area around there, but the camp itself is just really has a very peaceful feel. It's a very masculine camp.
So if you're feminine, you might not want to be there. But. I meant that for the ladies, not so much for men. But I thought it was great. I really did.
The the venue's really nice, the where we, you know, have our meetings and all that kind of stuff. The kitchen's really cool. We get to do some cool stuff and, you know, burn wood and cook fire. Or cook meat over fire. That's all I've eaten.
You could cook fire. You could cook fire, but it's hard to eat it. Yeah. And to clear something up, it's not all masculine rah, rah, rah, all the time. No, it's not.
But that is a part of it. But go to masculinejourney.org to register. If you're having trouble financially, don't let that get you out of the out of common. Just reach out to us. We'll find a way to help you get there.
We tend to have some scholarships available. And again, if you have any questions about that, reach out to any one of us at our first name at masculinejourney.org. Go let God love on you this week and love on each other. We'll talk to you later. Yeah.
