You know, I've realized I'm kind of picky when it comes to Bible translations. Yeah, you are, because you're the guy that underlines half the page and then argues with the footnotes. And I'm a good arguer. But, you know, I care about two things, faithfulness to the original text and just being able to read it without feeling like I'm reading a dictionary. Which is why we're grateful for the support of the Christian Standard Bible.
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You're a young person. Understand that the quote unquote medicines that they're running to to alleviate the problems in their life. can be poisonous can be more destructive in their lives. If you want things to get worse, This is the direction that you run in. But if you want things to be better, run in a direction of.
honoring Jesus with your body. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today.
All right, we got Shelby back in the studio. We're going to be talking about again his book, Why We're Feeling Lonely. And I'm telling you, you don't want to miss this. It's so good. Yeah, let's go.
This culture is training us to believe that you are enough. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. You can do it. You have the power within you. And while the heart of that message, I get where it's coming from, it's actually garbage.
It's just not true. Like you can't go it alone. You can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps. And anybody who's creating those phrases is in a really easy part of their life right then when they typed out that banner. When you go through hard things, you go, I can't go alone.
So this me and Jesus kind of gunslinger, I'm going to go by myself as like the Lone Ranger. First of all, the New Testament is speaking to crowds of people. Like whenever Paul is talking, he's talking to churches, like groups of people. Even when he's talking about to Timothy, like one person, it's in the context of being around other people.
So you can't go it alone. You just can't, you're not built for that. And if you try to do that, not only will you Be more and more isolated. You'll be less and less of who you are as a person. You need other people to help you understand who you are.
And so, like, I got to go inside myself to find me. No, like, you'll never really find yourself unless you do it through the context of other people, whether that be your spouse, your kids, certainly friends. But I hammer this home, even for college students who are young. And transient and moving around all the time, you've got to be plugged into a local body of believers. You have to do that, even if it's only for like four years while you're in college.
But to think that I can go to church on Sundays, sit and get my message that will help me, and give me my B12 vitamin shot that'll last until next week. You're missing out. You're missing the best part of what church is. Church is not a place you go to, it's a body of believers that you're involved with. If you don't enter into that community, you are not experiencing true Christianity.
Yeah, but. I have done that and I got hurt. Those people at church. As good and Christian-y as they are, some of them were gossipy and hypocrite.
Somebody just, some woman said to you that you just last week, you just said somebody said something to you that wasn't even true. That happens a lot in church.
So, you know what? I tried that, but I'm pretty good by myself because it doesn't hurt as much. A lot of people are saying that. Casey, help me answer that one. I think that most of the time we believe that the problems in the world and in my life specifically come as a result of what's outside of us.
This person hurt me. This circumstance interrupted my life. My house is crumbling right now. There's a leak here. My friend said this to me and hurt me.
This church is hypocritical and they've done this. While all of that might be true, your biggest problem in life is not outside of you. Your biggest problem in life is your sin inside of you. And I'm sorry, that's why monasteries did not work because. Mm-hmm.
They dragged their sin in big suitcases into the monastery with them. Yeah.
So if you try to go it alone. You're never going to be rescued from your biggest problem in life. And that is the sin that's inside of you. The only way that God can work in that process of sanctification is through elements of the word. Through prayer?
Through connections with other people who are willing to engage with you and help you to see. Truly, what's going on inside of you? Yes, there's always going to be a risk. There's always going to be an element of like this person might hurt me. That person might accuse me of something that's not true of me.
And pastors, I believe, have the hardest job in the world. I agree with that. Because you're trying to shepherd a bunch of sinners who are evaluating you. They're giving you a job evaluation literally every week that you preach. And you're getting emails about everything that you did wrong.
And rarely will you get a text that says, Hey, I was really moved by what you said today. You're being evaluated all the time.
So you need people in your life who genuinely know you, who are going to remind you of the truth about who you are in Jesus and remind you of the truth of the fact that you need to be rescued from very specific things that are going on inside of you. And you will never get that if you go, I just got to detach from other people. You'll never get it. It'll never happen. It's so messy.
It's going to be messy. But you know what? Our relationships with our kids. And our spouses are messy. And nothing has changed me more than being married.
Nothing has changed me more from parenting my kids. I think I've changed more than they have changed because the problems shape us. And when you have to work through something with a friend, it changes you. It's like a mirror that you're seeing all the rough spots that you have, and it makes you fall on your face before God. There's a beauty to that in our brokenness.
There's so much hurt in the church. And I really hope that won't cause people to stay away because it's where we find life too. Yeah.
Contrary to popular belief, it's good to walk with a limp. It's good to walk with a spiritual limp because that means that you've been through something. And if God truly opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble. Then you're going to pray for humility. And often, the way that we experience humility.
is through being broken. And when we're broken, that happens often. Through other people. I called out a friend about three years ago, very close friend of mine. I called him out on not walking with God.
His marriage was falling apart. He was not. Doing what he was supposed to be doing. And I did not do this calling out perfectly. I will 100% own that.
I was judgmental and I was too harsh with him. But you guys had given each other permission to speak into each other. He literally gave me permission the week before, even reminded me. Whoa. Like, you have permission to speak into my life.
So when I did. It did not go well. did not like anything that I said. Yeah.
Consequently. He cut me off and we have never been the same since. But at the same time, he got into some intensive therapy. He started doing the work with his marriage and he started coming back to church eventually. And so now he's in my church.
He's reconciled with everybody that he needs to reconcile with, most importantly, his wife and God, but he is not reconciled with me. My goal in calling him out was to help him save his walk with God. and help save the marriage. In one form or fashion, it's mission accomplished because he has been. I just happen to be a casualty of war on the field.
Am I okay with that? Yeah.
He does not like me still. And I'm willing to be not liked. In order to See the benefits of what's going on in his life. I'm really good friends with his wife, love her. My wife is best friends with her.
My kids are both best friends with their kids. It's just that our relationship is probably never going to be the same. Have you apologized for the way maybe that you think I could have done a little different? Yes. You have.
Yeah.
So you've done your part, and that's all you have. I've done my part. Yeah.
And if he's too reluctant to get back in a relationship with me, frankly, I understand. Like, I get it. I really do get it. But the question is: is it worth it to do those kind of things, to enter into the difficulty of difficulty? conversations that you know might risk yourself.
Uh, Jesus did that for me. Time's infinity.
So if it's good enough for him, it should be good enough for me and my small little things. Tim Keller said, Jesus was willing to walk through the ultimate fire. To help us know that we're not alone in our little fires. You know, he's using the illustration of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
So if Jesus was willing to come down and experience the ultimate disconnection, the ultimate humility, the ultimate misunderstanding, be abandoned by his friends, have his father turn his face away from him, if he was willing to go through that for me, I'm willing to go through the more small. Difficult experiences in life, knowing that he's present with me when I go through those things. And he understands time's infinity. He understands what I'm going through.
So, am I sad about that broken friendship? Absolutely. I think about it almost every day. Wow. And I miss him.
I miss my friend. I really do. And I still hold out hope for a reconciliation between he and I. But if it never comes, Shadrach, me, Shanak, Vanego. But even if he doesn't save us, I gotta live there and go, even if he doesn't, is it good enough for me?
That God is on my side. Have you shared that story with your girls? How old are your girls now? 14 and just turned 12. I have talked to them about it.
There's nuance there. And you have to be careful. There's a healthy amount of discernment that I need to have about what to say and what not to say. It would be easy for me to paint him as the villain and paint me as the hero. And I try really hard not to do that.
And I have owned my stuff even in front of my kids and said, you know, I didn't communicate this the way that I should have with him. He did not respond well to this because daddy was.
Sometimes unkind in the way that he communicated with him. And I'm still hopeful that the Lord will reconcile us and bring us back into a friendship. But It is an opportunity. to help them understand who they are in Jesus. That my identity is firmly rooted in my Savior.
And even if it never works out with him, I'll be sad about that. But I don't need that to help me understand who I am because I am a child of God. When it's your kid. Or, you know, you're the parent and you're observing, man, I think my child is lonely, fearful. I see anxiety.
How would you coach them? How can they help their child when they see those symptoms? And I'm going to add the other one that you have in one of your chapters too, Shelby. It could be a daughter or a son. You're like, I know they're looking at porn.
It's just overwhelming as a parent when we feel all of that. We don't know what to do. Loneliness, fear, and anxiety. That's one issue that I tackle in the book in a separate chapter. And then porn and casual hookups because we're going to those things to alleviate loneliness.
I understand the temptation to use those things. It's huge, especially when you're feeling lonely. I would say help. You're a young person, I'm Understand that the quote unquote medicines that they're running to to alleviate the problems in their life. can be poisonous.
Those things can be more destructive in their lives. If you want things to get worse, This is the direction that you run in. But if you want things to be better run in direction of Honoring Jesus with your body. If we truly believe that God is good. Which, if you ask any Christian, do you believe God is good?
They'll say yes. Functionally, they probably don't actually believe that God is good.
So, help them understand the gospel. Let's come back to that. And then, when they truly believe that God is good, then you will believe that everything that He commands is good, because the one who commands it is good. Therefore, His commands are good. If His commands are good, Keep your way pure.
Don't run to lust and casual hookups. Run to Jesus in those moments. Then you'll believe that what he commands is good. Therefore, if we go Jesus' way, it's always going to be better than our quick-hit solutions to alleviate the problem of loneliness. We need to help our kids understand that true life.
Is always going to be in what Jesus has prescribed for us, and that is often going to come through difficulty. Through hard work. but it's always going to be better on the other side. Hey, have you ever wondered how to help your kids really connect with the story of Easter during Lent? I have.
And one thing we've loved in our home is using resurrection eggs. Each of those 12 eggs has a little symbol that helps kids see and then touch the story of Jesus' journey to the cross and the resurrection. And it just naturally sparks these great questions and conversations, and there's no prep needed, which is always great. Yeah, we actually recently did this with our grandkids. And you talk about questions and conversations.
It was awesome.
So if you're looking for a gentle, meaningful way to walk through Lent with your kids or grandkids, this is a beautiful place to start. And we've also got a fun storybook and a coloring book. Great with resurrection eggs or on their own if your family already has a set. And you can get your bundle or set of resurrection eggs at familylifetoday.com. Yeah.
I can imagine I would have done this with our high schoolers back in the day because we asked a lot of questions at the dinner table. But I could have seen myself asking something like, okay, guys, like, let's just say in our culture, maybe even your generation and our generation, where do we go? What do we do when we're in pain? Or we just want to escape? What are the kinds of things that maybe friends at school or people you know, or even our generational culture is saying, go here because it will help?
To have that conversation, because if you have high schoolers, they're going to bring up all of it. But just to have that conversation, I think is a great thing to have at a dinner table and ask that question: do you think it works? Yeah.
It's a very simple question. Simple. Very, very practical. Simple. And keep it, not say you, what do you do?
Because that can feel threatening, maybe, if you haven't gone there. But generally, just like, What do young people do? Or what do we do? Yeah.
And start with saying something you do. Like, this is what I want to do. I don't know. Veg out for five hours and watch some Netflix thing and just escape reality. And I think, first of all, you have to have that base of, do my kids trust me?
Are they willing to even engage in the conversation? And the only way you build that is to start to ask those questions. And don't use manipulation. Yeah, don't try to be like, let me get them to confess something or whatever. That's the opposite of what you need to do.
You need to ask hard questions and be willing for them to not answer for a while until they do.
So live your life vulnerably in front of them and talk about your own life. Talk about your mistakes. And that way it builds this foundation of eventually a breakthrough will happen and they will confess to you or they will talk to you about what they're really going through. And then when you have that opportunity to speak into their life, continue to ask those real questions and don't be shocked when they talk. To you about those things, but help yourself to know that you're not just a parent, you're a discipler.
Yeah, train your face. You're a disciple, exactly. Don't go or like, what? I would never do something like that. As soon as you do that, you lost them.
You'll never be able to gain that back.
Well, not never, but like, it'll take a long time. You're making it harder for yourselves, basically. If you're willing to build that foundation with them to the point that they feel they can be vulnerable and honest with you. That is a great place to be, even though they might be confessing a ton of their garbage.
So, at least you need to be a trusted person first in their life. And when you're a trusted person, then you have an avenue to speak into their life. And then you can be able to hold up that mirror every now and then and say questions like, How's that working out for you? We had all sons, but my friend had daughters.
So I would say, I wouldn't even say a name, but I'm like, well, this one girl in high school said this. What do you guys think of that? Is that true for, you know, generally your culture? And a lot of times, like, that's the stupidest thing ever. They can respond to somebody else's stuff.
Sometimes that's easier for them. And they know. They know. I've been doing this discipleship program with my 14-year-old. I just got together with her last weekend.
What is it? What are you doing? It's called Resilient Daughters. It's John Tyson's stuff.
Okay, yeah. It's not as robust as his stuff for boys, but it's just a helpful way to ask questions. And we just go to a coffee shop. We had lunch on Sunday. I asked her one of those questions.
My question. I'm looking it up right now. What do girls your age tend to gossip and talk about the most? Oh, good question. And it was a great question to ask.
And so I asked her that question. And my oldest daughter is a lot more reserved. And so it takes a lot more time and effort to get into the specifics about what's going on with her because she's not very quick to be communicative. Which sometimes we look at her and me and my wife are very communicative. We're like, she's a passer.
We were both like, blah, blah, blah, blah, all the time.
So asking those pointed questions is actually really helpful to think specifically about, well, my friends are doing this. And, you know, thankfully, my daughter's involved in a youth group and she has Christian friends. And she's like, yeah, that is stupid. Like, some of my friends do this and this is dumb. But, you know, what are some of the biggest problems that you're wrestling with at the moment?
What are you struggling with? What are your biggest fears right now? What are your biggest wishes? What do you want to be true of you? Those kinds of questions might seem elementary.
They might be, oh, this is too simple for them. You'd be surprised by how much a simple question can get to the heart of what a young person is wrestling with. And think about, yes, I'm a parent and I'm a disciplinarian and I need to guide them and instruct them and tell them what they can't do. But as they get older, you're becoming more and more and more of a discipler in their life. And so, what does a discipler say in these moments?
A discipler has empathy. A discipler is willing to admit their own flaws. A discipler is willing to engage with someone. And you got to put on different hats sometimes, but sometimes you're wearing Sherlock Holmes, two bills at the same time. You know, you're wearing two different hats at the same time.
And you got to figure out how that juggling act works. And that just takes time and practice. Failure, owning your things. One of the best things you could say to your kids is, I'm sorry, I was wrong. Will you forgive me?
And I found that that my kids don't expect me to be perfect. But they really appreciate the fact that I own my garbage and I'm willing to apologize and ask for forgiveness. It is. Pride swallowing misery. When you have to look a five year old in the eye and go, Daddy yelled at you in a way that he shouldn't have.
And I'm sorry, will you forgive me? But who's more quick To forgive than a child. They're always willing. Yes, I love you. And often it's accompanied by a hug.
And I love you. If you build that base with your kids, and if you have teenagers right now and you haven't built that base, if you start to build that base right now, you will be shocked by how much your kids will trust you, even if it takes until they get into their 20s and 30s, which I don't have right now, but I'm. Playing the long game, baby. I want my kids to come to me when they're having marriage problems in the future. I want my kids to come to me when they have questions about how to raise their own kids in the future.
And that only comes by being willing to admit that I am a failure. I'm a failure and I don't do it perfectly. I rely on the grace of Jesus. If they think I'm perfect all the time, they think, well, dad doesn't need to rely on grace. And then all of a sudden they don't understand the gospel.
And they think, oh, there's this level I can get to one day, like my dad, who's just perfect, which is a, it's not true. And they won't share their struggle because they won't share their struggle. And they think, oh, they can't relate with me. But what is that? That is the opposite of the gospel.
The gospel is grace. You need grace. Going back to that neediness thing, you need to be needy, willing to admit your neediness. And when you're willing to admit your neediness, you'd be surprised by how much people are willing to admit their neediness to you as well. In my weakness, you are strong.
Yes. And we run from weakness. Yeah.
You shouldn't. Embrace it. Yeah.
And I would only add this one thing because, you know, remember in Shanti Feldhan's book, For Parents Only, is about how to raise teenagers. She said the number one complaint of teenagers is about parents. Know what it is? No, they don't listen. They don't listen to me.
They'll listen. That doesn't surprise me at all. They'll ask me a question. They're not really wanting to know my answer. They want to now tell me why I shouldn't think this way.
So I would say to those parents: when you ask the questions that Shelby just told you to ask, which are phenomenal. Mm-hmm. Don't interrupt them. Let them talk and listen. And don't say, okay, now that I heard what you say, here's what you need to think and do.
Just listen so they begin to feel like I trust mom and dad. They really do want to know what I think. And you'll get your chance to tell them, you know, disciple them and direct them. But man, if you don't listen, you lose them. Yeah.
And one of the things kids do too is they like immediately, they all play Adam and Eve.
Well, it was his fault.
Well, it was her fault.
Well, it's God's fault. You know, we're all there. They're very, kids are very quick. And often I found in parenting, when I call my kids out on something, especially as they've gotten older, they go, well, you did this. No, you did this.
Well, you did this. And the temptation there is to defend yourself. And one of my favorite paul tripisms, you might as well just have him here. One of my favorite paul tripisms is fire your inner lawyer. And if you've got an inner law firm, fire them too.
Like, get rid of the temptation to constantly defend yourself and save face in front of other people. It's good. It's good. Fire your inner lawyer. That has been one of the best pieces of advice I've ever gotten.
Thanks, Paul Trip. I really appreciate that. I got to grow a mustache. I don't think you need to. This has been so good, Shelby.
I love you guys. Gosh, I miss you guys too. I know. It has been such a pleasure. I have thanked God multiple times that our paths have crossed in just small ways, you know, over the years.
But what you guys are doing is so beneficial to generations of people: senior citizens, boomers, all the way down to Gen Alpha. You guys are helping people. This program is helping people. And you are gospel focused. And man, we need that more than anything right now.
So thank you to both of you. You're so good. I love you guys, and I wish nothing but blessings for you.
Well, thank you. And I'm telling you, you need to get this book. Yeah.
It's called Why We're Feeling Lonely and What. we can do about it. Familylifetoday.com. You can click on the link in the show notes and get it. On behalf of David Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott.
We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. I missed that. There you go. We should have him do all our opens and closes. I love you guys.
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