Bob Ryan & BDaht

This is The Drive with Josh Graham Podcast.

Tune into The Drive weekday afternoons 3-7 on Sports Hub Triad. Earlier this week, Peter King called the Carolina Panthers the NFL's most challenged team amid the coronavirus pandemic. This has strengthened the sentiment among Panther fans that Carolina should throw away next season in order to pick Clemson's Trevor Lawrence number one. And while I'm a huge fan of Trevor's, who I covered in a handful of games the last two years, I've talked to several times, I don't think it's wise for any team to tank their season to try and pick one player. The Panthers, it just is not the smart move to do so, because there's no guarantee he's going to be the number one quarterback at this time a year from now.

Let's not forget, it was Tank for Tua last year. The Dolphins, everyone said they were tanking. Oh, they're going to be the worst team in the league. This might be the worst team we've seen in the NFL the last decade or so. This is bad for football. What are we going to do? The Dolphins ended up winning a handful of games, including a very meaningful one in Foxborough to close the regular season.

And guess what? They still got Tua anyway with the number five pick because the guy we all assumed was going to be number one was surpassed by a player with a six round grade prior to last season. On Mel Kiper's board, that's where Joe Burrow fell. Even if Burrow didn't get hurt, I believe Burrow still would have been the pick. If Tua didn't get hurt, I think it's still Burrow because they went head to head into his house and Burrow outdueled him. Burrow went head to head with Trevor Lawrence. He outplayed him in New Orleans to win the national championship. I think that stuff matters.

So who knows? This year, what if Justin Fields has a better season than Trevor? And if it's not Fields, what if it's another surprise player? What if it's a sleeper like, I don't know, Wake Forest transfer Jamie Newman who goes to Georgia and is going to have a lot more eyeballs on him playing in the SEC this year? Or staying in that conference, what about Kyle Trask at the University of Florida? What about D'Eric King, same state, going from Houston to Miami? Lot of talent there.

I've watched D'Eric King a few times. Terrific athlete. Who knows who's going to make that jump? We all thought Carolina, with the awful season they were having in 2010, it was a foregone conclusion they were going to draft Andrew Luck number one. Then Andrew Luck decided to stay another year at Stanford. What if Lawrence does the same?

What if Lawrence says I want to stay for my senior season because I love it so much on campus at Clemson? It actually worked out better for Carolina that Cam Newton flew up the draft boards with his Heisman winning season because history's taught us Cam had a better career than Andrew Luck did. Injury is obviously a possibility here, but putting that one aside, you should also look at the teams that generally do well once they draft great players. This isn't like basketball. Basketball created the fad of tanking. It was popularized by the Philadelphia 76ers, trust the process, but look at how many draft picks they missed on. Look at what they've done in the postseason to this point.

Not a whole lot. One player can change your organization in basketball. LeBron James turned Cleveland from a team in the cellar to a team that went to the NBA finals in less than five years. He led Cleveland to the finals at 22 years old.

You can do that in this sport and in the NBA. In the NFL, culture wins, not individuals. 12 of the last 20 titles, Super Bowls, have been won by just four teams.

12 of the last 20. New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and the Giants. Those are four of the best cultures cultivated in the entire league. Four of the longest standing head coaches. You got Belichick, Tomlin, Harbaugh, and before Tom Coughlin was finished just a few years ago, he was in New York for over a decade.

Spent a lot of time with New York. Matt Ruhle, who learned under Coughlin, he needs to build in year one, not try to sabotage in order to get a draft pick. The schedule is tough enough and the effect the coronavirus is having on Carolina's offseason, it's enough to make Carolina bad enough in order to be in this conversation for Trevor Lawrence. But intentionally sabotaging things, intentionally tanking when the culture hasn't been set under a new coaching staff, that's a dangerous thing. And I put it out to a poll and I'm interested in your thought on it, at sportsubtriad, at Josh Graham Radio, 336-777-1600, should the Panthers be tanking for Trevor Lawrence in 2020? Because right now, still plenty of time to vote on the poll, 57% of the audience says yes, they think the Panthers should tank for Trevor.

I don't think it's a wise proposition to try and set things up to lose. Look at Burrow with Cincinnati, the Bengals undoubtedly tanked. They stopped playing Andy Dalton, who was a superior quarterback to former NC State signal caller Ryan Finley.

They stopped doing it because they felt they were going to lose more games with Finley at quarterback than Dalton there. So they got the number one pick, but the culture is bad and you got a young coach in Zach Taylor. I don't think any player is good enough to change a culture that's poor. So I don't expect Burrow to be very successful in Cincinnati. I think Burrow's a tremendous prospect, but can he overcome all the shortcomings of Cincinnati?

I don't think so. Baker Mayfield, we saw what he was capable of at Oklahoma and even parts of his rookie season in Cleveland. But last year under Freddy Kitchens and a poor organization, it all just fell apart. We'll see if Kevin Stefanski can pick up a lot of those pieces, but culture wins in the NFL, not individuals. Let's also not forget about Teddy Bridgewater being on the roster. Steve Smith completely disregarded him last month. Oh, he's not going to be the future of this team.

Why not? I'm not going out on a limb and saying Teddy is going to lead the Panthers to a Super Bowl. But I'm not saying he can't.

He's 27, not 32. He's a former first round pick. I mean, quarterbacks play until they're 40 years old nowadays.

They're that well protected. Last year he was 5-0 as a starter in the same system Joe Brady's trying to bring to Charlotte. If Teddy's great this year, who's to say he can't be great for another eight or nine seasons? So look at what's already in the cupboard rather than just assuming it's all empty or trying to empty it out to pick a player you don't even know is the best player for next year's draft or is even going to be available altogether. So I think it's a ridiculous proposition in the NFL to tank for a singular college player. Transitioning things to some breaking news.

This comes from Brett McMurphy of Stadium. One time transfer waivers are dead until at least the 2021-2022 academic year as the NCAA Division 1 Council approved a resolution to develop legislation regarding transfer eligibility for January 2021 that would not be effective until not this academic year, but the one following that. So, Sean D. Brown, for example, who transferred from Wake to Michigan committing officially yesterday, he's going to have to sit out next season. Isaiah Wilkins, who goes from Virginia Tech to Wake Forest, he's likely going to have to sit out too unless there's some specific reason why he should be playing this year, a reason that I'm unfamiliar with.

Some other players that Steve Forbes might be potentially trying to bring in, they're likely going to have to sit out. That's a major college headline. There's also a major local headline.

Governor Cooper, he just held a press briefing. We're now in phase two or phase two starting Friday at five o'clock. And if you're wondering what that means, there's a new mass gathering limit, 10 people indoors, 25 outdoors.

There are still some businesses that are going to remain closed, that being bars, nightclubs and gyms. So, Robert, you're going to have to hold off before you can rage at your favorite nightclub or bar in downtown Winston. It's going to be a little bit. It'll be worth the wait, though, hopefully.

You think? Oh, they're going to make a kill and at least off me the first week. I don't know if I'll actually go back. I can't wait. I can't wait to get into a restaurant this weekend. I don't know if anybody's with me on this. I have a feeling some might be. There are four or five restaurants I've been dying to just sit inside and one I don't see. I don't want to just name specific businesses because we want to have maybe some of these people sponsor our show and we have our own sponsors.

But I will just say one of them rhymes with the wheat. Suspedos. And all right, I have no clue what the hell that restaurant is.

You don't. I do the boy does. I do. OK, I think I'm going to hold on. Let's see these two in a row. OK. OK. We'll play Josh.

I didn't turn. There you go. That's that's the spot I want to visit. I'm excited. I hear people say I'm not going to attend a sporting event again.

I hear people say, oh, man, I don't know if I'm going to be able to be ready to come out in public and go to restaurants. Not me. I'm ready. I am. I can stay away from people. I can keep my distance. I don't mind wearing a mask when I go to the grocery store or go to the pharmacy or whatever. I can stay away from people and protect myself that way. You can't protect yourself from germs everywhere.

You just can't. You got you got to live life at some point, man. And I'm telling you what, I'm excited.

I'm excited to go to the wheat, potatoes, wheat, potatoes, that place. Retainer in or something. Go get the retainer out real quick. I'm not looking forward to that when I get these bad boys off. No, not at all. You know, I hate these braces.

The ladies are looking forward to the braces coming off. Actually, I've met this girl who's kind of into it. I don't know if she's lying. She's probably lying, but she's lying.

She says she's into it. I want to talk about. Two men with goggles, Horace Grant and Randy Savage, and we'll do just that next. Make some noise, make some noise. Let's go.

You're on the drive with Josh Graham on Sports Hub Triad. I'm not a big fan of doing lists, but I know the audience loves lists. And when you see a full 10 part documentary series on what many people believe to be the greatest NBA teams of all time, the Chicago Bulls, I think the one that they mostly pick out is 1996 because they had at that point the all time wins record in the regular season, 72 and 10. I personally prefer the 92 team because I think it was a less diluted NBA a few years prior to that. But I know some, including our next guest, think differently when they think about the greatest teams of all time.

Bob Ryan, the sports media mogul, legend, many different platforms, television, radio, print is now spending time with us here on Sports Hub Triad. I understand you believe the 86 Celtics are the greatest team ever. Not any of those Bulls teams. When you're looking at the top three or five that you've had a chance to watch, how does that list look? First of all, I like lists in general. So whether we're talking about your top 10 Beatles songs or your top 10 basketball teams, I like lists. Lists are fine. We're going to get to your top Beatles songs at the end of this.

Now, yeah, here's the thing. I'm very adamant that in the pre-three point mania era, which we now are firmly incensed in, that the 86 Celtics were the best team ever. And the ultimate trump card in my argument is Bill Walton.

No one ever had a force such as that, that type of a force. There were a great six men, including the greatest of all, John Havlicek, when he was a six man in the mid-60s. But no one ever changed games in a way that Bill Walton did.

No one was as good at his position coming off a bench in that one great season when he managed to stay healthy. That's a trump card no one else can remotely match. That's my final argument on that one.

But we've got a problem now. The game is so radically different. I just got through watching last night, Josh. Locally, they're showing obviously lots of vintage games in all sports. And last night was the 1981 final game, game six of Celtics against the Rockets. I believe there were two three-point shots made in the game. One of them put the game away. Larry Bird with one minute and 37 seconds to go drilled one in the left corner with a hand in the space to put them up six. And they lived off that cushion for the rest of the game. So it's a very different game.

And that's what skewed the argument now. You've got the Warriors, the greatest team of the three-point mania era, whichever year you want to pick for them. And you've got teams in the normal basketball era, or at least in a very different type of era.

So that's the biggest problem I have. What Bulls team do you think is the best? Oh, I think the 96.

You're right. Even in those four years, there was a change in the league. It got so much more defensive minded. It was the most boring time in the league. Post-24 second clock was that 90s.

It was dreadful. The two years of Houston were the nadir of artistry in the post-24 second clock NBA. And the Bulls came right out of that.

But they had Michael to offer and Pippen to offer. And so you can make an argument for 92. But the 96 team, they did win 72 games. And you've got to give them credit for that. That's an achievement.

It was a great achievement. And so that's what they're going to hang their hat on that. Well, let me frame the question. Let me frame the question.

That's their ultimate calling card. Let me frame the question a different way then. Who do you view to be the greatest form of Jordan?

When Jordan's at his peak, what stretch do you think that is? He said it himself and he's right. The second time around was better. Because he said he was a better combination of mind and body. I don't know if you remember that quote from him late in the final episode. I took notes watching this thing because I have a podcast on Monday morning. Naturally, we've been talking about that each week for the last five weeks. The total package of knowing how to operate, when to take over, when to... I won't say defer. That's a word he wouldn't even recognize.

But when to ease up and let the others have a little say. He had it all figured out by 96. Bob Ryan with us here on Sports Hub Triad.

Shoot him a follow. At Globe Bob Ryan on Twitter. And again, listen to his podcast.

Gosh, the one you did and we talked about it in March when you were doing with Jeff Goodman, Kentucky Duke and had a chance to talk to some of the guys involved in that. It's just fantastic work you guys did there. But I want to transition things to baseball a bit because I know you love baseball a ton and I'm still confident that when everybody involved is incentivized to make something work, it's ultimately going to work out. But then again, not a great history when you look at the relationship between owners and the players union with Major League Baseball. Of course, you could go back to 94 and it took years for baseball to bounce back from that. If baseball doesn't get this figured out in 2020 amid this crisis, how much damage would that ultimately do to the sport, you think?

Well, you want to get too apocalyptic in your declarations and you have to be wary of, I always say, of using words like always and never or making major definitive pronouncements. But I would worry about how baseball would come out of this that people would not say, I don't need this. I mean, things right now, first of all, there's no offseason for any sport. There's only you're playing games and you're not playing games.

And when you're not playing games, we now cover them in a way that is almost as extensive as when they're playing games. Football is so, the tentacles are so long. The football thing has engulfed America to such a degree that baseball had better be careful. The players right now had better be careful about this money thing and about how they're going to get paid. And baseball had better get back together.

Your inference is correct. Baseball has a very disturbingly contentious history. And I worry, and I worry about the immediate future of baseball if they don't recognize that there's a common good. And I do worry that they have historically proven that they have a hard time reaching that common good. I don't have a lot of faith in Tony Clark right now to be strong enough to pull these guys and bang their heads together and get it straight.

I worry. I have a poll out that people could vote on at Josh Graham Radio, at Sports Hub Triad as well. Should the Panthers be trying to tank for Trevor Lawrence in 2020? Peter King, he wrote a column earlier in the week calling the Panthers the most challenged team in the NFL amid this crisis.

And I've been spelling this out for weeks. Even though they have a good quarterback or somebody who's been somewhat proven in Teddy Bridgewater, you're talking about a team that has a new head coach who has never been an NFL head coach. And also you got two rookie coordinators as well who have never been in that spot. And they're the only team with a new head coach and a new quarterback as well and no time to really implement things during the spring and really the summer as well. But you also follow the Patriots very closely as well. Some people were suggesting, oh, the Patriots, they should throw away a season to try and pursue this Clemson quarterback. Does tanking in football work?

My question is, is he worth it? I'm asking you a question because I am going to say as a preface, I don't feel qualified enough to comment on the entire state of affairs with the Panthers. I mean, I'm generally aware of the circumstances.

I understand the things you just said, but I don't have a firm grasp on it, so I'm going to hesitate to make any statements about that. I want to flip it around and just say, is there enough unanimity, if not unanimity, but plurality of strong enough opinion that he's worth this? Well, what's great is people say he's the greatest quarterback to come out since Andrew Luck. And the Panthers, if you remember, they were in a position two draft, number one, the year that he was eligible to go.

Then he said, I'm going to stay in college another year. Like, I don't know how you can bank on people, whether or not they're going to be available. Also, last year, it was a different quarterback with a T starting his name that we thought everybody was going to be tanking for, and that guy ended up being the second quarterback off the board.

But I'm just saying it broadly. Carolina, New England, whoever, tanking and football, do you think it's a good practice? Well, at this point, going into last year, which was not a largely subscribed to school of thought, that the Dolphins were execrable and that their best mode was tanking, and they went up winning more games than people ever thought.

Brian Flores and company did a really good job with what they had. So that didn't materialize. I don't know. Football, it's tough. The whole topic is so electric. It's so volatile.

That's the word I want. It's so contentious, the idea of tanking. Look, I've seen it happen with basketball in different eras too, as far back as the Rockets when they went up getting a larger one after they already had Sampson and found themselves in the finals two years later. And the 76ers, the process, haven't won a championship, but they've gone back to better than respectability. But that's another sport entirely.

And the Astros, so there's another sport where it works. So football, jury's out. I'm going to punt on this one. I'm not comfortable. I don't want to come off pretentious here on this one. And the early returns of the poll so far on Twitter, 54% of the people say, hey, they should tank to get Lawrence.

So it's even conflicted on social media as well. Well, my question is, is Lawrence that good? I mean, I know he had a setback last year, didn't he? Outplayed by Joe Burrow.

12 months ago. Yeah, outplayed by Joe Burrow. He threw some INTs, did he not? Very early on in the year, he had picks. Yeah, very early. He struggled.

And then he started to catch fire in October and November. Well, I mean, I know he said obviously he's going to be, you know, the prize. But I'm not comfortable with it. And I just don't feel like I should be commenting on the Panthers. Let's embrace discomfort and contentiousness here. Because, I mean, as promised, Bob Ryan here from ESPN.

And he's on Twitter, at Glow Bob Ryan. Greatest Beatles song of all time. I'm not giving you two, I'm not giving you three, I'm giving you one. I'll just preface this. The song I'm going to tell you is my favorite unequivocally. They had a poll last Labor Day on the Beatles channel, 18 on Sirius XM, to which I listen to regularly. They had the fan-selected top 100. And my song came in at number 68. Which is such a tribute to the Beatles catalog and why they're the greatest popular in the band in the rock and roll era ever. Don't give me anybody else for volume. You might have favorite bands and other bands have five good songs and ten good songs and Stones have, you know, twenty or thirty. But nobody can match the Beatles in volume.

That's utterly indisputable. My favorite Beatles song, and I was hurt that it was so low. I was like ready to drive off the road. What the ink's the matter with you? It's things we said today.

I love things we said today. I just cannot believe it. And I thought one of the great ironies of this was, you know what number when I was 64 was? What's that? Sixty-three. Yeah.

They're a truck and Dave came in at 63. Day in the Life one. And it didn't knock me. But, come on, you know, it's pretentious to a degree. I don't dislike it, but that shouldn't have been number one. Yeah, but also I don't want things we said today to be number one because it has to be one of the most played songs on the radio. We need to have Let It Be. Things to be said today? Oh, no, no.

It needs to be one of the more popular ones. It's not cool. It's not cool for someone to say their favorite Beatles song is Let It Be. Well, I know. I've been unequivocal on this for 25 years. I love this song.

And, you know, I mean everybody, look, if you take a million Beatles fans, you're not going to have a hundred, you're not going to have a hundred, you're not going to have a hundred listens. It does not. Yeah. That's great.

Oh, no, wait, nobody else. It's worth this kind of the rock and roll discussion. It's like having the best Sinatra song.

Good luck. If I'm silly, I can do that. And so, you know, that's fine. It's such a tribute to them that they have such an astonishing volume. I mean, you're listening to this list and you're going, oh, my God, yeah, what about that song? What about that song? Yeah.

That's true. You know, I have a hard time with it. Come up with a top 25, you know, but for me, number one is Things We Said Today.

And my top five would include I saw her standing there. I absolutely cannot hear that enough. If I'm filling out a complete the sentence that starts with Bob Ryan is cool because I'm going to finish it with his favorite Beatles song is Things We Said Today. And I think that's a good way to close things out. I hope there's a I hope there's a way we can get you to the triad sometime soon. Well, you know, I should have been there already, but, you know, we'll get there. We know we'll be there in the spring of of twenty one. Maybe I'll be there earlier. If I get back in, we'll see what happens with which school resumes, because I do have that relationship with High Point and we'll see what happens. Well, I hope to see you soon. I hope you're safe. Thank you so much for doing this. OK, Josh. Got it. You got it. That's Bob Ryan joining us from ESPN.

He's on Twitter at Globe. Bob Ryan Things We Said Today, Robert Walsh. It is one of those things like if you're a big band. It's not cool to like the most popular song. It's just not like if you say your favorite, I don't know, like if you say your favorite Bruce Springsteen song is Born in the USA. I just think you're kind of lame. Would you do that same thing if I told you like my favorite Queen song was Bohemian Rhapsody? Am I lame for that? Yes. What if their favorite song is Born in the USA? Then they're boring. I mean, like I like Queen and I like a lot of their different music, but I'm not going to lie to you and say my favorite song of theirs is not Bohemian Rhapsody. It's a masterpiece.

How would 57 year old Michael Jordan fare against active Charlotte Hornets? This is a real discussion that's happening. It's been flared up by one of their stars. We'll discuss with B. Dot in studio next. A quote from a few years ago resurfaced over the weekend as B.

Dot joins us in studio. Michael Jordan was asked by a reporter, do you think you can play against some of your guys right now? His Hornets players. Do you think sometimes, do you sometimes do that or not? Could you win one on one against them? Jordan responded, I'm pretty sure I can. So I don't want to do that and demolish their confidence, though. So I stay away from them.

I let them think they're good, but I'm too old to do that anyway. Back in 2013, Michael Kidd Gilchrist revealed he played Jordan one on one and lost. And Jordan was 50 at that point. Jordan's now 57.

The story resurfaced and Miles Bridges quote tweeted the story and said, let's get it then. Essentially challenging the GOAT and the person that signs his checks to a game of one on one. You might laugh at the idea of 57 year old Mike going up against active NBA players.

How that might go in one on one. I wouldn't scoff at it because I think Michael, I still believe 57 year old Michael Jordan could beat half of the Hornets one on one. Let's not forget, he was one of the smartest players in the league, be that. Game five during the flu game that we now are calling the pizza game after Sunday. His final game with the Bulls. I've never seen a player understand conserving energy and picking his spots as much as Michael did. And Michael, he's not able to play in the NBA today. He can play, he just can't play long.

That's what old age does to you. You can play, you just can't play long. So if we're talking about one on one, game to 11, I think Jordan beats over half the Charlotte Hornets roster.

How do you feel? I agree 100% and I would say more than half. You only got to put him up against five guys and that's the starters. Cause think about it, if you can't be a starter for the Hornets, you damn sure can't beat Mike one on one.

So you're talking about the top five. And I think the only person that could even have given Mike a shot, they shipped him off to Boston. I think Kimba could have possibly gave Mike a shot, yo. Kimba would have beaten Mike. You think he'd have beat Mike? He would have beaten Mike.

I don't know. If he was an active all-star playing a 57 year old, I think he would have beaten Mike. Robert, let's do this.

Let's go through all the Hornets players who play and I'll tell you whether or not they would beat 57 year old Michael Jordan one on one. Okay, I'm going to list them off here and you want to sound with this? You want to, if they ain't going to do it? Sure. Sure. We'll fill it out.

I'll start at the top of the roster. Dwayne Bacon. Is he going to make Mike sizzle? Hell no. Nope.

I've seen him play for the Swarm. Michael Jordan. Nope. All due respect to Dwayne.

Yeah. You're not beating Mike. Nicholas Batum. Mike. Yeah, Mike drops him off. Nick Batum, he's been injured. Mike, he might get injured.

I don't know if his body's dilapidated at this point because of all the heavy pours and the cigars that he's been smoking over the decades. But Batum, he doesn't strike me as somebody who's nimble and going to beat Mike off the dribble in one on one. So I'm going to take the GOAT. Mike's going to be so angry that Nick is costing the Hornets so much money that he might not let Nick score. Bismack, Biambo.

You're the reason we don't have Kimbo right now. Exactly. Bismack, it's all Mike.

Yes. I'm taking Mike pretty much against all the post players because the most underrated part of Mike's game, he was an incredible post player. Like he developed that part in the second half of his Bulls tenure.

The final three years, I should say. Backing people in. And that's a big part of one on one.

Like you got to have a good post game if you're going to get in and around the basket. Mike has that. And I think he takes out Bismack, Biambo as a result. Yeah, no way he lose to a guy named Bismack. More like Bismack, Biam-no.

Yeah, like Biam-no. I'm going to mix it up. I'm going to go straight down this roster alphabetically. You already said no to post players, but let's take Cody Zeller out the cellar.

You're saying no there as well. Cody Zeller is going to get abused. He's going to get hurt. He's going to get destroyed. Cody Zeller, Cody Zeller, Mike's going to take out Cody Zeller on behalf of his brother Tyler. That's what's going to happen. Like, come on, I'm going to do this for a fellow Tar Heel. Make sure to take you to the woodshed. Okay.

How about some guards then? Terry Rozier. Terry Rozier beats Mike. Rosier beats Mike. He has a lot of bulldog in him.

I don't care. I think he has a lot of speed. I think there are a few guys who are just too quick for 57-year-old Mike. I think Rozier is one of those guys. I think Rozier beats Mike.

The same way you talked about him being able to pick his spots, he's going to be able to play nice defense, angles. He's going to cut Rozier off, and if the jump shot ain't falling, he's not beating Mike. No. P.J.

Washington. Taking Mike. I'm taking Mike against P.J. Not yet, kid.

Yeah. He took out a Kentucky Wildcat in his rookie year, and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, he's going to do the same to P.J. Malik Monk. If you're looking for the guy Michael's most likely to get into his head, it's Malik Monk.

We're smacking the back of the head. Mike is going to remind Malik Monk of what Luke May did, of what the Tar Heels generally do to Kentucky when they play, even though I know Monk had that big shot when he scored damn well close to 50 points at that great regular season game. Mike is going to get in Monk's head, and I don't know what Monk did to get suspended indefinitely, but Mike knows. Mike knows, and Mike's going to beat Malik Monk. Because I can't pick one of the two of them, both Martin twins.

Two on one. Hey, both of them could play Mike. Yeah, I'm saying both Martins twins. Both Martins is great. Both Martins win.

No way. Both Martins. Yeah, both Martins. Shout to Davie County. Heck yeah. Shout out to Davie County.

We're going with the Martins. They built the dog crap out of North Davidson when they played us. Did they? Oh, for sure. They gave us buckets.

I had no clue they were from around here. Yeah, Davie dude. Wow.

Okay. We got the guy who started this whole thing, Miles Bridges. I'm hopeful Bridges would beat Mike. I'm hopeful. He's the best player on the team, man.

Really? I think it's Devante Graham. I'm hopeful he would beat Mike too. You can be as hopeful as you want. And neither one of those guys beat Mike.

You really don't think so? Also, he's the only Hornet on Twitter calling for that smoke. So at least he's confident.

I'll give you that I could agree that Miles Bridges might be able to cross that bridge when it comes. But also, if Michael walks down those steps and comes to play you one on one, he knows he's going to win. It's Mike. I mean, everybody was confident against Mike. You heard Russell say, hey man, why are you retired? You know I would have locked you down. Mike remembered that for three years, then embarrassed him. So you got a yes on Miles Bridges?

I got a yes on Bridges and I got a yes on Devante Graham for the same reason I had a yes on Rozier. Speed. Speed. Kills. That is everybody on this roster that could even sniff Mike's jocksrope.

Facts. So, to recap, I think the only four Hornets that could beat Mike one on one, Bridges Graham. Who else did I have? Rozier.

Rozier. And Martins. And the Martins together. They're like going to pull some Wonder Twin powers out of their ass. The only one I'm agreeing with is the Martins.

That's it. Two on one. You don't think Devante Graham's going to beat Mike? Devante would put up the best shot because he can shoot it, but he's not going to be able to drive on Mike, but he can shoot that thing. And I believe, I agree with you on speed, but I think, again, Mike is smart. Just like Bob Ryan just said last segment, like he advanced in his, well, he progressed as he aged.

And even at 57. Three, three, six, seven, seven, seven, one, six hundred, would Mike beat current Hornets? Yes, Aaron. You guys ain't paying attention to details because Mike already told you he would get cooked if he plays current Hornets. You just watched a 10 part documentary on how vindictive and cold blooded Mike is. This is an open challenge and Mike is like, I don't want to do that to him. We've heard Mike type like that.

Well, he also has a business to run, man. If you get beat by the owner, how do you expect those guys to have the confidence to win on the floor? I mean, it's not like wrestling a girl in high school. It's not like you beat her. You beat a girl. She beats you. You got beat by a girl. I don't like that. That don't sound like the Mike I know. That's still demoralizing, guys, when your owner's 57 and he drops you off in the arena that you play in.

This is the question I have, and I think B Dot's the best person to answer it. Oh, what's more demoralizing, getting beat by your boss in one on one basketball as an NBA player or future looking at Russell Wilson's Instagram this morning? Man, Russell Wilson is a homer. You really think he's trolling, though? Yes, he's super trolling, man. Look, little baby future isn't even on social media. Look, let me just say this.

Let me just say I do hate it when parents post, bro, you for being in the world. Come on. Like you're doing that.

They're reading it. Yeah. Why are you posting about your grandmother on Instagram? Like happy birthday, grandma.

I hate it now. There's no chance Grandma's reading that if you're tagging grandma. OK.

If Grandma's not on social media, you're doing it for clout. So let's just begin there. Both are doing it for clout because the answer to the question, though, what's more demoralizing future reading that or getting dropped off by your boss, getting dropped off by your boss? Even if it's Mike? Yes. Even if it's Mike, he's damn near 60, Josh.

There is one more question that needs to be answered. If you're playing Mike one on one, do you let him win? No.

Hell no. He's going to sense that. You heard what Charles Barkley said. Barkley said, if you beat Mike, if you beat Mike, you might get cut. No way. If you beat Mike, he would be like, keep him. Do not get rid of him.

You are listening to WSJS Winston-Salem, WCOG Greensboro, WPCM Burlington, WMFR High Point, the signals makeup sports. I've tried it. I just say it. It's worth asking the question. That's a good point. That's a good point.

It's worth asking the question. You think Mike wants somebody on the roster that can say, what, Mike, man, I beat you one on one. That's why LeBron will never be a Hornet. Just kidding. 50, 50 year old Michael Jordan is not the 50 year old Mike I'm interested in to come back from. No. I'm really trying to see 50 year old Mike Tyson. Yes, sir. I'm about these 57 year old athletes dropping buckets and dropping people.

Undertaker, Undertaker still going, he old as hell. No, get him out of here. People got the popcorn. Let's give them a show. This is the drive with Josh Graham on Sports Hub Triad. T-Dots in with us and I got to admit, I was skeptical from the jump when I heard Michael say in episode nine on Sunday that it wasn't in fact the flu game. It wasn't the flu that prevented him from playing a hundred percent in that classic game against the Jazz. It was actually bad pizza he ate from the night before. I've been texting so many people about this the last couple of days, Dot, who have said that pizza is innocent. It can't possibly be the pizza. They should have been asking Mike what he ate the night before because it's just unrealistic for a myriad of reasons that the pizza led to the immune system of the world's greatest athlete of that time being deteriorated to the point where he could barely stand up at the end of a basketball game.

They didn't buy it. My friends, that is a lot of people just took it at face value because Michael and his guy said it in this documentary. I was skeptical. It raised many red flags for me.

Then I heard what you at what ESPN Upstate in South Carolina did yesterday. They actually brought on the man who delivered the pizza. How do they know it was him? They checked with several different people. They went through many different channels to figure out what place it might have been, what who might have been working that night. They made sure to clear it through a lot of channels that this person was in fact working that night and delivered that pizza to the hotel that the Bulls were staying at.

Let's hear from this man. I don't know what his name is. I think his last name is Fight.

The name's not important. The restaurant and the details are though. This is from ESPN Upstate in South Carolina. I was the assistant manager of PizzaLites and we had known the Bulls, this is in Park City in Utah here, that's a ski resort town for those that don't know. So we knew the Bulls were up there and it's obviously a big event here in Utah with the Jazz being in the championship and playing the Bulls and of course it being Michael. We know they're at the Marriott.

So a driver took the call, and I'm a big Bulls fan, kind of the gag was I said, let me go wash my hands. I'm going to make this pizza and take care of it. It was a large, thin and crispy pepperoni pizza. So large, thin and crispy pepperoni pizza from Pizza Hut. Nobody has anything bad to say about Pizza Hut right now. It's not what we're talking about here.

I don't. I love Pizza Hut. I remember when they used to have a video game in the front.

I remember when Pizza Hut was good. So also I remember the shoes, the shoes that they produce that Grant Hill was wearing a few years ago. OK, putting that aside, he knew the order and the guy, he was a Bulls fan. I listened to the whole interview. He named one of his children after Michael Jordan.

So he loves the Bulls. He's not trying to hurt Michael in any way. Here's more about his approach to Michael's hotel room. You get in there and as we come off the elevator, of course, I've said it before, where cigars, the smell just punched you right in the face.

It was a really thick smell of cigar smoke. And so you're on the right floor, the best way to put it. So I walk over and as we're going over one of the players and I cannot remember which one it was. And I tell people clearly wasn't Scottie Rodman or 22 coach because I would remember that. But one of the masters said, hey, pizza, who's that for? And I said, well, I told him the room number because I had no idea. We had no idea who it was for. Just we had a room number.

Go ahead. And he says, oh, that's Mike. So that's an important detail, too. It was a singular pizza and they didn't know who it was for.

They just get a hotel room. There's no chance Mike is ordering it himself. It's some guy that's in his crew. It's some guy who might be his trainer.

There's no way you could really trace it back to Mike in the pre Internet age or where Internet before Internet became what it is today. I heard in the story that there were five guys that came to deliver the pizza. Did the guy speak on that and speak on why so many of them took the pizza? It sounded like he said multiple people were in the car. I don't think there were five. And there's even people close to Michael who have disputed five. Some said it was three people versus five. He did see Michael Jordan, though, as he tells us here, then the trainer answers the door.

The guy, the trainer that's been doing all the interviews and stuff, give him the price and he nods or whatever, shuts the door, opens up the door back up and hands me a 20 kind of gestures to me to keep the change or whatever. And Mike was or Mike heard what was going on. I just remember because it was a cool event of the whole thing. Michael had his back to me. He was sitting at a table playing cards and you could smell the cigar smoke and see the smoke inside the room. He just raised his hand and said, thanks, man. And then the trainer looked at me, shut the door.

There you have it from ESPN Upstate. That is the story. According to the guy who delivered the pizza, what happened to Michael Jordan? He says that there's nothing that happened to the actual pizza itself.

Where are you siding here? Because I thought the pizza story was fishy at first. This guy seems credible.

A lot of details he's given here. I think there, I don't think we have the full story of what happened to Michael Jordan in June of 97. I think we need to know what that trainer did with the pizza. He was the last dude to touch it. Look, Mike said it was the pizza.

It was the pizza. And I don't believe this guy anyway, because he said he didn't know it was Mike. But then at the beginning of this, he's saying, I was a huge Bulls fan and I knew, well, let me take care of this pizza. He didn't know it was Mike, but he knew it was the Bulls. So I mean, he's maybe hoping it's Mike. He's maybe hoping that it's Scottie Pippen. Maybe he's hoping it's somebody. But he's also not trying to do harm to the Bulls because he likes the Bulls.

I mean, that's what he's saying. Yeah. He's trying to get, hey, he's doing it for the same reason that Russell Wilson is putting out posts for Baby Future. And the same reason.

What was the other one? Everybody's doing this stuff for Klout. Ocho Cinco. Yeah, Ocho Cinco posting his $1,000 tips.

Everybody's doing it for Klout and wants to get talked about. Do I believe his story? That he delivered the pizza? Yes. Does that mean that it still couldn't have been some bad ingredients on the pizza that got Mike sick?

No, it doesn't mean that. Let's think about alternatives, though. OK. If it's not the flu and it's not pizza. Are you going to go with this hungover? It's not a hangover. It's not a hangover. Mike, Mike drank. Mike drank a little too much. I've never had a hangover that looked like that.

No. And I drink. You don't drink like Mike does. Oh my God. I've thrown up more liquor than Mike's drank.

All right. I don't know about that, man. Why is Mike going to go that hard the night before he has a game? This is the Mike thing.

We're talking about Mike who's, he heard it himself. He's smoking big ass cigars the night before a game. That's totally different from getting drunk off your ass, Josh. I'm done the day after I have a cigar.

Done. You ain't smoking like Mike. That's because you ain't number one, man.

That's because you ain't number one nothing. Winning has a price. Leadership has a price.

Cigars and liquor have a price. I'm so confused. Ordering bad pizza.

They also made it sound like in the movie, in the movie, this is some ragtag. Some high school hippies are making this pizza. Nah, it's Pizza Hut. It's Pizza Hut.

High school hippies can work at Pizza Hut. And can. You can get some old ingredients from the back of the freezer. That can happen. And it upset Mike's stomach and had Mike out there droopy. I never believed the flu story.

Anchovy under the cheese or something. You'll never know. Anything. Pete Thammel's reporting some breaking news to pass along that's significant for college sports fans everywhere. I don't know why I sounded like Howard Tricel or one of those oldsberg casters. Listen here.

We have breaking news. I almost did John Mulaney's voice there. I've been told I actually have a good John Mulaney. Believe it or not.

I'll take your word for it. What were you saying about it? Do you know who John Mulaney is? He's going to do it.

I'm aware. You know he's going to do it. I don't know who he is. What's this NCAA thing?

Sources say the NCAA Division 1 Council voted to approve voluntary athletic activities in football, men's basketball, and women's basketball to start June the 1st and go through June the 30th. Next time do John Mulaney sleeping. I don't know who that guy is but I'm sure it sounded just like him. It sounded pretty good. It's a good one. I have decent impressions. I think that's one I can add to the list.

Like right next to Gwen Stefani. Right there with Nic Cage. I got some good ones. Don't do some more. What else? What else?

What else? It was a hangover. It was a hangover.

It was a hangover that got Mike. Is he going through his impersonation? I'll tell you what, man.

He does this one without even trying to do it. There been a moratorium on that through May 31st other sports will be acted on at a later date, man. That's a Gordon to beat Thamel, man. So there's going to be some football this fall, man. Knock on wood if you're with me. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, that really is great news that is that is you summer school time for I mean, you're a Tar Heel fan. So Caleb Love and freshman to get on campus. Let's do it.

Get some voluntary activities done. So that's a great news and everything starting to look up or not everything. But from a sports perspective, it's as positive as it's been at any other point. I notice you're not wearing Carolina gear or even Wake Forest gear today. We got beach hill is going to join us in a little over 15 minutes. I got HBCU gear on my shirt right here. That's all the HBCUs right there.

And I got my jewelry from you had to unzip the jacket a little bit for me to see the HBCUs. Well, yeah, because I mean, it's raining outside, Josh. So I got my Nike pullover on. It is raining outside going to rain for the rest of the week. It is time for grammar school.

Grammar school B dot enlightening me on things I need to know. I forget if I won last week. Do you remember if I won last week?

I'm going right now. No, you did not win. No, I didn't win last week.

I think last week was a disaster. Actually, you know what? Actually, I think you did. You didn't know snatched and you didn't know face beat, but I think you got thirst trap, bop and YKTV. He did not know.

You know the vibe. He didn't know. I did not know.

He thought it was young kids television. You're right. You're right.

That's right. I did not do well in that regard. So I lost last week.

We'll see if I do better in the next installment of grammar school next. Josh Graham has his finger on the triad sports pulse. So wash your wrist when he's finished. More on the drive with Josh Graham. I take issue with the way this show is promoted on social media. If you ever wondered whether or not I'm the one that creates the liners, what comes back into this show or runs Twitter, let what Aaron just posted on social media dismiss any notion that that's true.

Josh Graham is a notorious square. So B dot is going to try and give him some street knowledge. It's time for grammar school next on the drive. While that is the case that we are about to do grammar school, I just feel like there's a more eloquent way to do that.

I don't think you have to point inward and just take a machete to my insecurity. He didn't call you a loser. I mean, a square seems to be synonymous with loser. How many squares do you think, yeah, that guy's really cool. I like that guy. But you preface this segment by talking about how you're not familiar with certain vernacular.

Does that make me a square? To some people. Not notoriously, though. Gosh, eh? Oh, for real.

For real. I'm a notorious square. Notorious. Notorious. Notorious. S-Q-U-A-R-E. Josh Graham. I'm just trying to build up the segment here. Give you some excitement drummed up.

Yeah, eloquent don't drive ratings, bro. Josh is known as an eloquent square. Brandon Childress is going to join the show. Wake Forest guard, former guard, I guess.

Real strange to say that. In 15 minutes, he's going to be here. Let's just dive into this segment, and we'll just figure out how much of a bleeping square I really am. Josh Graham has his own way of speaking. In high school, he didn't play sports, but he did wear a helmet. And just when you think it can't get any worse, my English teacher wanted to flunk me in junior high. Damn.

Thanks a lot. Next semester, I'll be 35. Josh is going to attempt to learn B Dot's vernacular. I'm from the old school. I got all the street knowledge. You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying? It's time for B Dot's grammar school.

Jordan mentality. I'm all in right now. I'm dialed in. And listen, folks, if you would like to be a lifeline for Josh, the phone number has a dual purpose today.

336-777-1600. You can call and be a lifeline for Josh, or you can call and say goodbye to Aaron because today is clearly his last day. It is time for grammar school. Your first word, Josh, is going to be a review word, a review word from earlier this season to see if you have retained any knowledge. Oh, God. What? I never liked reviews. Does it mean to ghost ride the whip?

This is one that you lost about four weeks ago. Ghost ride the whip. Ghost ride the whip. What does it mean to ghost ride?

This is like when you get out of your car, but it's still moving, and you do some dancing outside the car. It's a big social media thing. It is not as much a big social media thing as it is a huge Oakland thing. It's huge in Oakland, out there in the Bay Area.

West 3. Look at my boy A. I saw Lil Dicky do it in a music video. There you go. Have you ever heard of E-40?

No. You've never heard of E-40? I-40. That's what made you a Notorious Square.

That's what got you labeled Notorious Square where you jump from E-40 to I-40. Moving on. I'm more of a business 40 guy. I'm going to punch you in the face. You be 40 guy.

Will you place your shot? Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.

This is my segment. You stop it. What is review word? What is a donk? D-O-N-K. Oh, I know what that is.

What is a donk? That's like junk in the trunk, man. That's like a booty. I can't do this. I don't want to give him a point for that.

Why? You don't want to give him a point for junk in the trunk? He was just trying to eloquently say a nice butt. That is a donk. That's right.

You've done good on your review question, Josh. He's a two for two for a square. He is. He is.

Two for two is not so notorious. Huh, Aaron? Y'all ain't going to just be pounding up on me about this.

I'm just trying to do my job. Josh, what is Aggie? A-G-G-Y. Aggie. Not to be confused with the mascot for the North Carolina A&T State University, the Aggies. What is Aggie? I'm not going to say what I first thought because it can't possibly be right. Say it.

Just talk through it and then read our body language. It means somebody who is familiar with working in agriculture, working on the farm, Aggie. Like he's Aggie. Your answer was Aggie. Aggie means annoying, aggravating, Aggie, annoying.

Something that is annoying is Aggie. Your next word is really an acronym, so I need you to write these letters down. Got it. Y-A-K-W-T-F-G-O. Y-A-K-W-T-F-G-O.

Gosh. Y-A-K? Y-A-K-W-T-F-G-O. Gosh, the K is really throwing me off. Is that throwing you off?

It is. That's hilarious. I'm going to go with you all crazy what the bleep get out. Now when would you use that? When would someone ever even use that? You already know what the is going on, John.

Yes, you already know what the is going on. Y-A-K-W-T-F-G-O. Y-A-K-W-T-F-G-O. That's what Y-A-K-W-T-F-G-O means. What circumstance would you ever say the acronym?

Bro. It's like, oh, you see me at a bar and you weren't expecting me to see me there and you're like, damn, you are turnt up. And I say, you already know what the is. I know, but you wouldn't say the acronym. But if you see it on Twitter, you need to know what that means.

If you text and get, you need to know what it means. I'm telling you, this right here is. It all comes down to this though.

It is. Started off hot with those review questions. And now you staring defeat in the face. You got to embrace your Jordan moment right here. This is going to be interesting because this word was on my list, Robbie, and he actually used this word earlier. And when he used it, I said, wow, did he use it correctly?

I don't really know yet. So I'm going to ask him if he knows what is a savage. What does it mean if someone says they are a savage? Because I heard you use it, but I want to know if you knew exactly what you were saying. I think it's fitting that we have Brandon Childress, who is nicknamed be chill joining us in about five minutes. It means somebody who has no chill does not give a bleep that that is what a savage is says something that maybe other people would never say.

A savage is someone who does not care about the consequences of their actions. You are correct. Josh, you have won today in grammar school and we have advanced you to next week. Oh yeah. Who's the square now? Tell him.

That's what I got to say. Notorious square. Poke your chest out on him, Josh. More like notorious winner. Let him know, Josh. I never said you were a loser. Let him know. Damn right.

I'm a winner. Yeah, you are, Josh. You tell him. You already know what the bleep is going on. It's all I'm saying here. I mean, I'm coming on this radio show every bleeping day and I stare across at Ciaran just belittling me at every possible moment.

It's ridiculous. Are we on a delay? I'm just checking because you know what, I'm ready to fight. Why are you ready to fight? You won today. You won today. Jordan mentality. You upset me so much.

Jordan mentality. Congratulations, Josh. It's been a, it's been a rough couple of weeks for you, but this week you were victorious and you have advanced to the next week. What?

A square. Hey, if you go sneezing here, dog, I know that's right. I'm glad I'm on this side of the glass. Here's a question I've been wanting to ask Brandon Childress since the season ended. Both the options I'm about to present to you are awful and one I wouldn't want to deal with as a player. You play four years at a place that you love and then you lose in the first round of the ACC tournament, but would you prefer to lose on your own volition or would you prefer to have your season in two days later, but it's out of your control?

Your season ends and you are not able to play in the NCAA tournament in a way. I'm big on closure. Even though it's not necessarily the closure you want in Brandon Childress' case, I'd take that 10 times out of 10 versus still having a chance of making the NCAA tournament and having my season in because of coronavirus.

I would definitely take the latter. As a Tar Heel fan watching us lose to Syracuse in the fashion that we lost to, if you think about it, we were the last game of the ACC tournament and to lose like that, further cementing the fact that we had no chance of going to the NCAA tournament, super sucked. That cement and that closure was not good for a Tar Heel fan. I would have much rather us not play and then we could have just talked trash like we were going to win it. Regardless of how the season ended, both those options, they're both Aggie man.

I mean, we've been setting up this interview for the last hour or so, so you already know WTF's going on. On the floor, I think I could say this with pretty confidently, anybody who's watched Wake can agree with me, Brandon Childress was a savage on the floor. Super savage.

He was. I am not going to work dunk into this. Why? Just not going to do it. I kind of did right now. I don't know how to work dunk into this, but I mean, he ghost rode the whip for Wake Forest for four years. At any rate, Brandon Childress is going to join the show next on The Drive.