Considering the Issues—and Israel—When Casting Your Vote

Considering the issues and Israel when casting your vote. Cal Thomas, syndicated journalist and author, joins us today for that topic right here on the Christian Wheelview radio program where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. The Christian Wheelview is a listener-supported radio program and our website is thechristianwheelview.org.

I'm David Wheaton, the host. A recent post online summed up in part the current situation in America and abroad. Major U.S. ports are closed due to striking longshoremen. Hundreds of Americans missing in a natural disaster.

ICE, or Immigration and Customs Enforcement, says there are over 600,000 mid- to high-level criminal illegal immigrants in our midst. War is breaking out in the Middle East, a wider-scale war, and Kamala Harris wants a promotion. It would seem that with the troubled condition of America, adding to that list high prices and inflation, unaffordable housing for many, rampant crime in our cities, millions of illegal immigrants being placed all over the country, poor public educational system, and much more beyond that, that there would be no way America would give Kamala Harris and her running mate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, that promotion to the presidency on Election Day, which is Tuesday, November 5th. But alas, the polls, if one can trust the polls, have the race between Harris and Trump very close. It's helpful in times like these to hear from someone with a wide breadth of historical experience, along with a Christian worldview. That would be Cal Thomas, who is 81 years old and one of America's leading journalists over his 50-plus-year career. Cal has been up close and lived through many national and international events and crises, along with presidential elections. So what would one with that degree of life experience say about our current situation? Well, stay tuned. Cal Thomas is coming up shortly here on the Christian worldview radio program.

But just two things before we get to the interview with Cal. The first is the ongoing recovery from Hurricane Helene that has ravaged large portions of the Southeast, especially in western North and South Carolina, eastern Tennessee, Georgia, and the Gulf Coast of Florida. It's unusual for a hurricane to exact this much damage in inland areas, but that is exactly what has happened. There's been historic flooding. There has been at least 200 deaths, and that's likely to increase. Millions are without power and communication, food and water and other services. There's been billions of dollars in damage. It's being called a hurricane of biblical proportions.

I think somewhere in the top three of the most powerful hurricanes in recent memory. So we are located many states north in Minnesota, but we want listeners in the Southeast to know that we are watching this trial very closely and have been praying for your sustenance and recovery. If we were able, we would be there to join those who are helping.

But we want to say, may the Lord be the strength of your life during this most difficult time. The second thing to mention before the interview with Cal, and Cal will touch on this as well, is to be aware of what is taking place right now in the Middle East with Israel and her surrounding enemies. It was one year ago on the morning of October 7th that thousands of Hamas Islamic militants from Gaza on the southwest coast of Israel breached the Israeli border fence at multiple locations, entering Israeli towns and killing about 1300 Israeli military and civilians. Hamas took hostage back to Gaza 250 more people. With Israel's renowned intelligence, it is still unclear how such a major attack could have been pulled off. But alas it did, and the Middle East has changed dramatically in the past year. Israel has invaded Gaza and basically defeated Hamas there. To the north of Israel in Lebanon, where another Iran-supported Islamic militant group operates, Hezbollah, where they blend in among the Lebanese, Israel has decimated Hezbollah's leadership, including just killing their top leader Hassan Nasrallah just recently. Iran, which is the motivational and funding source for all these groups, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis, another Islamic militant group in Yemen, recently launched hundreds of missiles and drones against Israel. The second time this year they've done that.

Nearly all of them were intercepted again. And now we are waiting for what Israel's response will be. We Americans get easily distracted by American politics. But it is Israel and the Jewish people who are the epicenter of the Lord's covenant and purpose for the world now and in the future. Moses spoke the following words from the Lord to the nation of Israel after they had come out of Egypt. Deuteronomy chapter 7, quote, The Lord did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples. For you were the fewest of all peoples, but it was because the Lord loved you and kept the oath. He swore to your forefathers that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh, king of Egypt.

Know therefore that the Lord your God is God. He is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands. And there is an article on the website gotquestions.org about the significance of Israel, both back then and today and going forward.

I'd just like to read just a few paragraphs here. Another reason for Christians to support the nation of Israel, and the first reason in the article was that God had chosen the nation of Israel through whom he would bring the Messiah, is because of the Abrahamic covenant. We read of God's promise in Genesis chapter 12, verses two and three. I will make you, God says to Abraham and his descendants, into a great nation and I will bless you. I will make your name great and you will be a blessing.

And here's an important line. I will bless those who bless you and whoever curses you, I will curse and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you. The article goes on to say, one of the United States most worthwhile accomplishments has been its consistent regard for the plight of the Jewish nation. No nation in the history of the world has a better record of treating individual Jews with respect than does America. The same can be said for our befriending Israel as a nation. America has committed many sins for which we may well deserve judgment. But as a nation, we have been a consistent friend of the Jews and the nation of Israel, as well as a benefactor.

One more paragraph. Christian believers should give support to the chosen people of God. This is not to say that we necessarily support the methods they use and the relationships with the Arab nations. This conflict will continue until Jesus comes back to judge the nations and sets up his 1000 year reign of peace on earth.

That is the pre-millennial position, which we hold here at the Christian worldview. While we don't have to support everything Israel does as a nation, we most definitely should support Israel's right to exist. God will fulfill his promises and covenants with Israel. God still has a plan for Israel."

And that was from gotquestions.org. And I saw a post online from someone whose name is AaronInWriting who said this, Israel is both under divine judgment and providential protection simultaneously. Israel is both an enemy regarding the gospel and beloved for the sake of the patriarchs simultaneously. Israel is both spiritually apostate and covenantally elect simultaneously. Israel is both physically gathered and spiritually scattered simultaneously. Israel is in both a relationship and a state of separation from the God of Abraham simultaneously. Israel is both a whore and a bride reserved unto a wedding simultaneously. Israel is both left desolate and remnantally reserved simultaneously.

He closes his post by saying, We dare not slacken this scriptural and eschatological tension to any degree, lest we fall into deception and rob the Jews of either the gospel on one hand or their very lives, their very existence on the other. I think that was quite well said. Supporting Israel doesn't mean you support the moral state or the God rejecting situation in that nation right now. Many biblical Christians put abortion, marriage, and morality at the top of our voting priorities.

And those are very important issues, and they should be there. But how our potential leaders would treat Israel should be right up there as well. Donald Trump and the Republicans, for all their liabilities, are typically very favorable to the nation of Israel. On the other hand, Kamala Harris and the modern Democrat party mostly sees Israel as the oppressor, the source of the problems in the Middle East and the world. Look at the protests against Israel in favor of Hamas, largely being done by the left. The left has tried to handcuff Israel in their war against Hamas and Hezbollah, always saying, Don't escalate.

Negotiate for peace. And they only reluctantly support Israel when pressured. So this issue of how a nation, how leadership supports the Jews, the nation of Israel, is an important issue to keep in mind as you vote this fall. Speaking of voting, we are offering a 32-page booklet on Why Your Vote Matters. That's the title of it, authored by Gary Hamrick, a pastor in Virginia. The booklet encourages Christians to vote, and it helps Christians discern which candidate aligns more closely to biblical principles. So just get in touch with us at the Christian Real View to receive a complimentary copy of Why Your Vote Matters. All right, we'll take a short break to tell you about some ministry updates and resources.

Stay tuned. Syndicated journalist Cal Thomas coming up next. I'm David Wheaton, and you are listening to the Christian Real View Radio program. You have a left-wing foundation that realizes it has a problem advancing its political goals because of evangelicals. And so they will think, OK, what we need to do is find some mechanism by which we can change evangelical minds. They will then recruit well-known organizations like the National Association of Evangelicals, the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities, and denominational organizations. That was recent guest Megan Basham talking about how evangelical leaders traded the truth for a leftist agenda, which is the subtitle of her best-selling book Shepherds for Sale.

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Or you can order one DVD that includes three episodes for a donation of any amount. Order by phone at 1-888-646-2233, by mail at Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331, or online at thechristianworldview.org. Welcome back to The Christian Real View. I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit our website, thechristianrealview.org, where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print letter.

Order resources for adults and children and support the ministry. Our topic today is considering the issues and Israel when casting your vote. And syndicated journalist and author Cal Thomas now joins us.

Cal, it's so good to have you back on The Christian Real View radio program. I know you were recently in Europe. Tell us about that trip and what perception you got from Europeans as to what the state of the United States is right now. Virtually everybody I met, including on the ship we were on, the first question they had, if they were not Americans, was, what do you think about the election? What do you think about Donald Trump?

Who do you think is going to win? I'm not a prophet or a forecaster, so I can't tell you that. You've got to remember the greatest church state moment in history when Jesus stood before Pilate and Pilate asked him, oh, you're a king then. And he said, it's true, but my kingdom is not of this world. And so I think we need to keep that in perspective, even as we hopefully vote and pray for those in authority, as we're commanded to do. This is not our home.

This is only a temporary residence, like a hotel in a foreign country. But there's incredible interest in this U.S. election because I think it affects a lot of people, economically and culturally, who is president of the United States. Before we get into what's going on here in the United States with the election and current events, let's look over to what's going on in the Middle East right now. Israel has systematically been decimating the leadership not only of Hamas in the Gaza area of the south, but also to the north, their enemy there in Lebanon, of Hezbollah, and just recently did an incredible operation, I guess all you could call it, of having pagers gotten into the country and taken by the Hezbollah militants and blew them up and killed many of these Hezbollah militants in the process. And then shortly thereafter, just this past week, did a major attack on the leader of Hezbollah, Hassan Nasrallah, killing him in an underground bunker in Beirut. And immediately, Iran has launched hundreds of missiles and all different kinds of bombs against Israel. You wrote recently in one of your columns, you said 40 years ago, we went through Tyre and Sidon to the outskirts of Beirut when you were there.

You said, I saw weapons provided by the Eastern European communist bloc stacked in parking garages, schools, hospitals, and other civilian locations. Nothing has changed since then as the Islamists or terrorists want Israel to bomb those targets hoping civilians will be killed so Israel will be blamed for, quote, targeting civilians. And then you went on to talk about how the idea of the West is that if we give the Islamists what they want, if we appease them, they'll back off on their intentions in Israel and around the world. How is it possible, Cal, that Western leaders, the U.S. president, this administration, European leaders, think that giving Islamic militants what they actually want will appease them?

And where do you see this escalation in the Middle East going? Well, appeasement never works. I mean, the classic example is Munich when Neville Chamberlain, the prime minister of Britain, went to Munich and met with Hitler and came back and claimed peace in our time, that he made a deal with Hitler.

And that, of course, encouraged Hitler to continue with his not only Holocaust but the invasion of France and Sudetenland and eventually Russia. So I think one of the things that the West misses, and it's not just this administration, it's in Republican and Democrat administrations, is that so many have the secular progressive worldview that what we do or what Israel does is going to make a difference with those who believe they have a religious mandate from their god they call Allah to eliminate the state of Israel and to kill Jews and come after Christians and even the United States and other people they regard as infidels. They say that openly. They quote from their Quran. They prove it by their actions. And yet so many Westerners think that something we do or don't do, something Israel does or doesn't do, is going to make a difference to people who believe their god wants you dead.

It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen. Why don't we take them seriously? They prove it over and over again. And old Biden now says after Israel's correct response and its bombing of Hezbollah before they could bomb more Israel, all he says is cease fire. Well, that's only going to allow Israel's enemies to regroup, rearm and to do it again.

Cal Thomas with us today here on the Christian worldview, a syndicated journalist and author. Is weakness, Cal, in U.S. leadership, do you think, causing and allowing these wars, and I say plural as in wars, as in Russia, Ukraine and now Israel and the broader Middle East, is that why these are happening now? Because what was not happening during the Trump administration? Is there something going on, especially maybe in Israel, with the lead up to the election that Israel might be thinking, hey, if Paris and walls win, they may not be so favorable toward us in trying to protect ourselves in the Middle East? Well, you'll recall the slogan that became famous during the Reagan administration, peace through strength. Bullies, terrorists don't stand up to strong people.

They are encouraged by weak people. And when you have weak leadership, and when you have the mullahs believing that the crazy, secular Americans are not going to oppose them, then they're going to do whatever they want to do. And you see that happening right now. Now, I don't know about Trump's claim that if he were president still that none of these things would happen. I mean, Jesus said there would be wars and rumors of wars until he returns. So the real problem is sinful human nature.

And that's not going to be cured other than by a movement of the Holy Spirit. But I do think that a strong America and a strong Israel deters, doesn't completely eliminate, but deters a lot of what the mullahs have planned for Israel and for the United States. And I also believe in regime change. There are growing numbers of Iranians, as we've seen, even in their phony elections, who oppose the Ayatollahs. I think we ought to be doing all we can to encourage them, to support them, and to help them overthrow this radical regime.

That would do a lot to change the dynamic in the Middle East, and not just with Israel, but throughout the region. Cal Thomas with us today here on The Christian Real View, the author of A Watchman in the Night, his most recent book, what I've seen over 50 years reporting on America. And we did a program with you last July of 2023 for listeners who missed that who may want to listen to that interview, they can go to our website, thechristianrealview.org. Cal, you also wrote in a recent column, you said former President Donald Trump has been criticized for stating that some countries have emptied their prisons of the mentally ill, drug smugglers and sex traffickers, sending them to America. Startling new figures you write from ICE or Immigration and Customs Enforcement, confirm Trump's claims. They show that more than 600,000 migrants and there have been millions that have come into the country, but 600,000 migrants with criminal records are in American cities and towns are being flown all over the country into the interior as well. Among them are more than 15,000 who have been convicted or accused of homicide. So 15,000 murderers in the country, and nearly 16,000 who have been convicted of sexual assault.

That's really incredibly troubling number, Cal. And so you let millions of illegals into the country. Tens of thousands of them are criminals.

You place them in interior towns all over the place. And then you say that, well, deportation, that's inhumane. What is your response, Cal, to many evangelicals out there saying that we should not be troubled by this? It's not really a national security issue.

This is actually an opportunity for evangelism. I just think that that's hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil mentality. Our laws are not being enforced. You know, the administration says, well, Congress didn't pass this bipartisan legislation that would have fixed the problem.

Well, the only bipartisan part was that the Republican who signed on to it was James Langford, senator from Oklahoma, but nobody else did. You can't have a nation unless the nation enforces its borders. No other nation on earth behaves as we are. And there are legal processes to get to this country. There are ways to legally enter it. And I'm all for legal immigration. You have a lot of people who are here who are from other countries who are outraged and upset about how these others are being treated. And they're not just from Latin American countries.

They're coming from Afghanistan and Russia and China. And you've seen the videos, at least on Fox. The mainstream media is not covering it at all. And as a friend of mine says, the greatest power the media have is the power to ignore. So it's not just their bias in the way they cover some stories.

It's their bias in the way they're not covering some stories. And it's all fine to talk about, oh, well, this is a great evangelistic moment. But if we don't enforce our laws, you know, there's an Old Testament verse where God talks to the ancient Israelis, you must purge the evil from among you. And you just cited some of the figures that we know about. We don't know the number of gutaways. We don't know the number of murderers and rapists and human traffickers and child molesters and all of the rest who are here who got away. So the numbers you cite are only what we know.

So there are probably a lot more. And the last thing I would say on this is that there are people in our country who don't like America. And they want to flood this country with people from other ethnic and religious backgrounds because they want to water it down. It's like taking a cup of coffee and pouring water into it. You dilute the coffee.

And if you pour the water long enough, you replace the coffee. And that's what some of the secular progressives in this country want to do. They hate Christians. They hate conservatives. They hate Republicans. They hate the military and they hate America. And they're trying to destroy us from within. And if you think that's an extreme view, all you have to do is look at what this administration is not doing.

They're not enforcing the laws that are on the books. And Biden, when he became president, undid by 90 some executive orders all of the policies of Donald Trump that were enforcing the border and keeping immigration down. And I point out also, again, the media ignore most of this.

It was Barack Obama who deported more illegals than the Biden administration. Cal Minnesota governor and Democrat vice presidential candidate Tim Walz said this about a small town named Worthington in southwest Minnesota. We have more refugees per capita than any other state.

That's not just morally a good thing. It's our economic and cultural future. This beautiful diversity we see out in Worthington when I'm there, you see 50 languages spoken in the school. So 50 languages spoken in the school in a small agricultural town in Minnesota. As we know, with the city of Babel, multiple languages does not lead to unity.

It leads to division. So what's the point of being proud about something like that or just letting in millions of illegal immigrants that won't lead to a cohesive society and cost U.S. taxpayers millions and billions of dollars to support? I think there are people who hate this country. They've never contributed to it. Many of them have never had real jobs.

They've never had to make a payroll. All they've done is politics, activism and media. They've never created anything, any product or service that anybody wants. They're all about taking other people's money through higher and higher taxes. You listen to this latest debate with Tim Walz and J.D.

Vance, and Walz hauled out the old Democrat line we've heard every election cycle since Franklin Roosevelt. The rich aren't paying their fair share. They never tell us what the fair share is. But the fact is, the federal government is taking in more revenue than it's ever taken in in history. The problem isn't a lack of money. The problem is a lack of self-control. It's overspending. You know, Reagan used to say we have a deficit not because the American people are taxed too little, but because their government spends too much. He was exactly right.

And this is why I really like it. I've written about this for years. Maybe Trump read it. He's promised a group of outside auditors to come in if he's reelected and to audit the federal government from top to bottom. Again, Reagan used to say the only proof of eternal life in Washington is a government program.

It's a funny line, but it's true. It's easier to kill a vampire with a stake in the heart than a government program. We have so much waste.

We have so many outmoded programs and they just go on and on and on. And we have a debt of almost thirty five trillion dollars. You know, the last president wants to balance the budget. It was Bill Clinton. And that wasn't that long ago.

Now you can argue, OK, well, he cut defense and some other things to do it. But the fact is it was balanced. Previous presidents, other than during World War Two, would have been shocked at the debt. And no nation, as I wrote in a previous book, has been able to survive with this kind of debt, with open borders and the loss of a shared moral value system.

All three of those things are now extant in America. Our guest is Cal Thomas today. He's lived into his 80s now. He's been a journalist for well over 50 years. He's a syndicated journalist and author of A Watchman in the Night.

We have that book linked at our Web site, TheChristianWorldview.org. This is a good segue. What has happened to our government and the size of our government? You wrote in a recent column, if you need an explanation of why government has become so big, so expensive, so remote and so dysfunctional, consider a recent Wall Street Journal story. Americans reliance on government support is soaring, driven by programs such as Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. You say from the article, the country hasn't always been this reliant on government support.

In 1970, government safety net money accounted for significant income and fewer than one percent of America's counties. We have abandoned the notion of personal responsibility in government as a last resort. Now government is a first resort in our entitlement age. The breakup of the family has also contributed to an over reliance on government. The idea that someone else will take care of you, in this case the government, was foreign to the World War Two generation and their ancestors. Politicians want people to rely more on government because it helps their careers, but it doesn't help ours or the nation's.

That was very, very well said, Cal. Even the president is seen as not a leader of the one branch of the government, the executive branch, but he's seen as the king. It's all about executive orders now.

Things aren't done in any bipartisan way in Congress anymore. So it's like we have a king and the government that he heads up is seen as the savior and provider. Explain more how you think this happened in our country when we've been so focused on individualism, individual liberties and so forth that we've become so reliant on government as a people.

I call it a perversion of the 23rd Psalm. The government is my keeper, I shall not want. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of poverty, the Health and Human Services Department will be there comforting me with food stamps.

When I was growing up, my father was in World War Two, my wife's father was in World War Two, and we were taught inspiration followed by motivation followed by perspiration improves any life. But now we've moved to an era of envy, greed and entitlement, the unholy trinity of the secular progressives. You see this in some of the Medicare supplement ads on television.

I see a lot of those because I live in Florida where there are a lot of older people. And there are four words that are common to all of them, free, deserve, entitled, and I forgot the fourth one now. But when you weave this into the mentality, the psyche of an entire generation of people starting in the schools. And by the way, any believer who has their kid in a secular school is really ignoring the commands of scripture. We don't send our soldiers to Russia or to China to be trained. We train them here. And I've heard this for years. Well, I want my child to be an ambassador for Christ.

Well, that's fine. But how many eight year old ambassadors do you know? They have to be trained and taught and educated. And you see what's happening in the public schools. Drag queen story time, a rewriting of history, critical race theory. Everything is racist.

And you're a racist if you're a white person and retributions and reparations and all of these other things. And then by the time they get to college, if they haven't been totally immersed in this secular progressive worldview, as we've seen last semester and again this semester, you get the anti-Semitism, you get the riots at major college campuses and the rest. So people say, well, what can we do for the future? Well, the first thing you could do is start with your own children and grandchildren, get them in either homeschooling or a good Christian school where they learn a biblical worldview and don't go with the flow of the secular culture. There's so many parents who send their kids off to these places and are shocked to find that they have lost their faith, that they've turned into liberal Democrats and pro-choice on abortion and OK on gay rights and transgenderism. Where did they get that? They got it from their teachers and their professors.

Why would you do that? Well, it costs a lot of money. Yeah, well then, as Barbara Bush said once, there's a great line, if you have children, they must come first. Our success as a nation, your success as a family, depends less on what happens in the White House and more on what happens in your house.

Well said. Cal Thomas with us today here on the Christian Real View, syndicated journalist and author of many books. His website is calthomas.com, or we have him linked at our website, thechristianrealview.org. All right, we'll take a short break to tell you about some ministry resources and updates. And also, if you just joined us, we are offering a 32-page booklet titled Why Your Vote Matters, authored by Gary Hamrick, a pastor in Virginia. It encourages Christians to vote and helps Christians discern which candidate aligns more closely to biblical principles.

Just get in contact with us the usual ways to receive a complimentary copy. We have more with our guest today, syndicated journalist and author, Cal Thomas. Next, I'm David Wheaton and you are listening to the Christian Real View radio program. This kind of worldview about identity has exploded where people come along and say, if it's all about you, you need to actually work out who you are. It's actually immunizing a generation against the gospel, because the gospel comes into the picture and says, well, who are you? You're actually a sinner.

It's a negative answer to the question. You need a savior. Look the cross of Jesus Christ. Who did he die for if you're so good, if you're so worthy, if you have to pursue yourself as a good foundation for how to live? That was recent guest Martin Iles, executive CEO of Answers in Genesis and author of Who Am I? Solving the Identity Puzzle, endorsed by Ken Ham, John McArthur, and Ray Comfort, Who Am I?

is a 208-page hardcover that retails for $19.99. For a limited time, you can order it for a donation of any amount to the Christian Real View. Go to thechristianrealview.org, call 1-888-646-2233, or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. David Wheaton here, host of the Christian Real View radio program. Listeners are often surprised to learn that we as a ministry pay to broadcast on the radio station, website, or app on which you are listening today. That expense is recouped through listeners like you making a donation or becoming a Christian Real View partner. Our aim is to have each broadcast outlet fully supported by the listeners of that outlet. If you'd like to help us in our mission to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ, go to thechristianrealview.org and click on Donate.

You can also call toll-free 1-888-646-2233, or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota, 55331. Specify how you listen as that helps us decide whether to continue on a given outlet, and be sure to select one of our resources as a thank you for your support. Welcome back to the Christian Real View. I'm David Wheaton. Be sure to visit our website, thechristianrealview.org, where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print letter, order resources for adults and children, and support the ministry. Our topic today is Considering the Issues and Israel When Casting Your Vote. Syndicated journalist and author, Cal Thomas, is our guest. Recently, Cal Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez talked about the media, something that you've been involved in for well over 50 years, a very long media career.

Here's what she said. We're going to have to figure out how we rate in our media environment so that you can't just spew disinformation and misinformation. It's one thing to have differing opinions, but it's another thing entirely to just say things that are false.

And so that's something that we're looking into. What do you think has led to the media being so partisan, so much on the left, as to actually favor the suppression of the First Amendment with the freedom of speech and freedom of the press? Well, up until the era of Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, the secular progressives had a basic monopoly. They had the three broadcast networks and NPR, public television, New York Times, Washington Post, L.A. Times, and they weren't really bothered by a conservative worldview. But then along comes Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes and along comes Rush Limbaugh and turns things upside down and gives people an alternative point of view and an alternative worldview.

And that upsets the monopolists and so unable to compete. And they tried this. I mean, they had I think they had Mario Cuomo, the former governor of New York, tried to do a liberal talk show. It failed miserably.

Nobody listened to it, not even the liberals. And so they've tried all kinds of things to counter the conservative worldview, the Christian worldview in the media, and they failed. So their next step is try to censor it.

And these are people who claimed at one time. And I remember in the 80s that all ideas were valid and we should have a marketplace of ideas and everybody ought to be able to have their say. And censorship was a terrible thing. Now, having lost the argument and increasingly losing elections and unable to compete, much less prevail in the marketplace, they want to exclude Christians and conservatives from even having a voice in the marketplace. This is not classic liberalism. This is the kind of stuff they do in banana republics and third world nations. And if we don't oppose it, then we're going to lose it. Reagan used to say freedom is only one generation away. This is not the natural state of humanity. You look around the world, you see the lack of freedom of the press, religious fanaticism, dictatorship, all these things. And we're kind of an oasis and a vast desert of this other stuff. And we've got to renew it in every generation or we're going to lose it. Cal Thomas is our guest. You'll hear him on radio stations all over the country with his Cal Thomas Minute.

You can find out more about him and read his columns by going to our website, thechristianrealview.org, or his, calthomas.com. You know, with all the serious stressors that we've talked about in the United States right now, like inflation and the price of things is so high. Illegal immigration, you talked about that already, crime in our cities, other things going on, the schools, you mentioned that as well. And 12 of the last 16 years, the Democrats have been in power in the presidency and the executive branch. How is this election even close at this point? I think it's really up in the air. Who's going to win this election? I don't think anyone really knows.

It's close. It could go either way. Why do you think that is? The secular progressives, and we have helped them, too many in the Christian community, have gotten ahold of the minds, hearts, and spirits of our children and grandchildren. Kids aren't born pagans. They have to be introduced to the gospel. They have to understand that the problem isn't in government.

The problem is in their heart. We're all sinners and we don't need to be reformed. We need to be redeemed. When Jesus said, my kingdom is not of this world, that's the most powerful church statement ever made. I'm going in one direction.

As an old hymn, I'm pressing on the upward way, new heights I'm gaining every day. The world is going the way it was forecast in both Old and New Testaments. Jesus talked about it.

Paul lists all the qualities of the unredeemed and where nations are headed. We need to take these things seriously. If your house is on fire, you don't call for a redecorator. You try to get out of it and you try to rescue any other person who's in it.

You just don't stay in it. So I like to say everything is right on schedule. God is still in control of the universe. Satan is the temporary ruler of this world. And so if we understand who our real enemy is and we understand what the full armor of God is, all of the things that are mentioned about the full armor of God are all defensive, except one, the sword of truth. And truth has a power of its own. I remember something that the former ABC News anchor Ted Koppel said. Truth is not a polite tap on the shoulder.

Truth is a howling reproach. Pilate asked rhetorically what is truth when he had truth standing before him. The one who said, I am the truth, the way and the life. And I've always found it wonderful that he uses the word that God told Moses was his name.

I am. So Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life. That always gives me goosebumps when I think of it. Yeah, what a powerful passage that is. A clear assertion of who Jesus Christ is, the way, the truth and the life.

And no one comes to the Father except through him. Thank you for reminding us of that truth. Cal, Cal Thomas with us today on the Christian Real View.

Cal, heading into this election. And you've written about this, just the persona, not necessarily the policies. And I think Trump's become more moderate, especially with regard to abortion and the LGBTQ movement and so forth. We see it.

But in comparison to Harris Walls is just night and day. But the persona of Trump has turned off many people, specifically evangelicals, who just can't abide a man who is like this. I want to read you a few paragraphs here from a professor named Robert Gagnon. He is the visiting scholar of Bible at Wesley Biblical Seminary, also a bestselling author of the Bible and homosexual practice.

Maybe you've heard of Robert Gagnon. He said, I was asked, would you kindly explain this phrase to me? Vote for the lesser of two evils. Is it a phrase believers should be using when voting for Trump?

My response is Trump is not an evil. I say this even though he was not my preferred candidate and has problems, including the fact that he could be more solid on LGBTQ issues and abortion matters. I would add to that voting for a presidential candidate who, despite significant deficiencies, Trump is far to be preferred in policies and court nominations to the only other real viable option. That would be Kamala Harris is not a sin to do that.

Here's an important line. Failing to cast an effective vote against the worst candidate by far in this case, in his opinion, Harris is a sin. In terms of policies and court appointments, Harris would be an evil since she is promoting state sponsored child abuse through the trans and gay agenda, destruction of parental rights, unlimited abortion, suppression of free speech and free exercise of religion, horrible anti-constitution court appointments.

And he goes on. That's enough to designate her as an evil. You have been quite clear about your dislike of the person and character of Donald Trump, and to a large part, I agree with that. But what is your response to what Robert Gagnon says here about voting for the lesser of two evils? In one way, you should look at it as you are voting against the greatest evil in this election. Well, we're all evil, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

You can call it what you want. But the thing that I think has hurt the evangelical witness more than anything else, and I have another friend who disagrees with me on the whole Trump thing, but they're right about this. A lot of evangelical Christians said about Bill Clinton when they came out about all of his extramarital activities, that character was everything. Character defined who a person is, and that led to one's position on various other issues. So if character was all important then for evangelical Christians, why isn't it paramount now when it comes to Donald Trump?

And that's what a lot of non-believers are asking, and they're calling us hypocrites and a lot worse. You've got to vote for somebody, and I do think that our leadership is a reflection of our followership. Who we follow, what we believe. I've often said about abortion, for example, that it's not the cause of our decadence, but it's a reflection of it. The way we have devalued human life at all levels, and not just the unborn and the elderly, but the shootings in American streets and schools.

All of these things are contributing to our decline as a nation. Now, Trump appointed a lot of conservative judges, including three on the Supreme Court. That matters to a lot of people. It matters to me.

There were fewer illegal immigrants in the Trump administration than there are now, and he says he's going to deport millions of them, starting with the criminals, which I fully support. So sometimes you just have to swallow, but still believing, what King David said when he was king over Israel. Put not your trust in princes or in mortal flesh that cannot save, for before long they're all gone and their ideas pass away with them. I think we need to keep our eyes on the prize.

We need to focus on the kingdom that is not of this world. And yes, we can vote for somebody we may dislike when it comes to character. I like to say it's not just the lesser of two evils.

Sometimes it's the evil of two lessers. Cal, you put much in perspective about where we are in America right now today during this conversation. So what is your exhortation for Christians as we near this election and where we are in America in 2024? You know, we are commanded to pray for those in authority.

And the psalmist says the king's heart is in God's hands, and he turns it wherever he wills. Now, there's a very prominent evangelical pastor who said after the 2016 election that God showed up. And I asked him once, well, who showed up in all the other elections?

You think God was on holiday when a Democrat was elected or somebody you didn't vote for was elected? You can't say that. I interviewed Trump in Trump Tower in 2016 or late 2015. And I said, I'm going to ask you a question that nobody else has asked you. And he said, what's that? And I said, who is Jesus? He said, well, I have a lot of evangelical support. I said, I know that. But that's not the question I asked you.

Who is Jesus? Well, he gave the typical answer that is common to unbelievers. I'm not judging his faith.

I'm just saying that was his response. And so I think we need to be careful. And I've heard all kinds of things from people who say, oh, I heard that Trump is a believer and that somebody I know was there when he prayed to receive Christ and all this other stuff you can find on the Internet. Well, by your fruits, you shall know them.

And I don't see any fruits there. But again, we're not electing a religious leader. We're electing somebody who will have an impact on our taxes, on regulations, on business, on foreign policy and on the border. And I think those are the things you have to balance when you're deciding for whom to vote.

And if you don't like the choices this time, then work with people to get better choices next time. But the only thing we're commanded to do in scripture is to pray for those in authority, not that they'll necessarily do everything that we want, but they will be used of God in according to his will. Our church prays for the president every Sunday, whoever it is. I told Obama that once.

I met him at an event in Washington. I said, Mr. President, I want you to know that our church prays for you every Sunday. He said, oh, well, thank the congregation. I said something else. He said, what's that?

God has placed you where you are for his purposes. And he said, I believe that. And that was it. That was our conversation. So I think we have to keep our perspective from a biblical standpoint and point of view and not put our hope and trust in human leadership, although human leadership is important for a while. So vote, vote intelligently, pray for those in authority. And remember that however the election turns out, God isn't running.

He's still King of Kings, Lord of Lords. Cal, thank you so much for closing our interview that way with such a true and hope-filled way of saying that. So we thank you for what God has done in your life for so many years. And we love the fact that you're still sharp and engaged in your early 80s.

Keep it up. May the Lord bless you and strengthen you and you and your wife. And thank you for coming on The Christian Rule of Your Radio program today. Thanks for having me, David.

All the best. God bless. Isn't it good to hear from an older Christian man with his perspective and wisdom? And just a reminder that you can hear our previous interview with Cal Thomas and find the link to his book, A Watchman in the Night, what I've seen over 50 years reporting on America, by going to our website, thechristianworldview.org. You can also order the 32-page booklet on Why Your Vote Matters, authored by Gary Hamrick, a pastor in Virginia.

Just get in contact with us, the usual ways to receive a complimentary copy. So in conclusion today, I see there being two options for how a Christian should vote, and this is at any level, federal, state, and local. The first is for which viable candidate, for example in the presidency, Trump or Harris, will be less oppositional to the Christian faith and practice and will be more a blessing to the state of Israel. So while I fully see Trump's sinful views on abortion and homosexuality, fully see his arrogance, his narcissism, demeaning words, the only other viable option is Kamala Harris, who is far more radically God-rejecting than Trump.

Far more radical on murdering babies, far more promoting of all perversion on the issues of homosexuality and transgenderism, disdains Christian America, the Constitution, free markets, national borders, and the state of Israel. So if one votes for Trump, it doesn't need to be an affirmation of his persona or even some of his wrong policies. It's an effort to stop the far more God-rejecting candidate. Plus, I think Trump is more influenceable to Christian and conservative positions than Kamala Harris, if he does get in office. The second option is to vote for a candidate on the ballot, but one who is not able to win, a non-viable candidate like a third-party candidate, or to write in a person, or to not vote at all.

I don't think that's wrong, but it doesn't deal in reality. Barring something unforeseen, Trump or Harris is going to be our next president. So writing in your pastor's name may make you feel better, but it doesn't take effective action to keep the most God-rebelling, viable candidate from taking power. Now, I say this about voting, yet knowing what the Bible says in Daniel chapter 2, it is God who changes the times and the epochs. He removes kings and establishes kings. And whatever quote-unquote king he establishes for this country, that king won't be able to save the nation or anyone's soul. The Bible says there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

He is the only Savior, and He is coming again to reign in righteousness and will strengthen His own whatever happens in this election into the future of our country. We are out of time for today, but thank you for listening to The Christian Worldview and for your support of this nonprofit radio ministry. Until next time, think biblically, live accordingly, and stand firm. The mission of The Christian Worldview is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. We hope today's broadcast encouraged you toward that end. To hear a replay of today's program, order a transcript, or find out What Must I Do to Be Saved, go to thechristianworldview.org or call toll-free 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Worldview is a listener-supported nonprofit radio ministry furnished by the Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, become a Christian Worldview partner, order resources, subscribe to our free newsletter, or contact us, visit thechristianworldview.org, call 1-888-646-2233, or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Thanks for listening to The Christian Worldview.