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Processing Why Josh Harris Kissed Dating, His Wife, and Jesus Good-Bye

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton
The Truth Network Radio
August 2, 2019 8:00 pm

Processing Why Josh Harris Kissed Dating, His Wife, and Jesus Good-Bye

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton

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August 2, 2019 8:00 pm

The oldest of seven children from a prominent evangelical Christian homeschooling family, Josh Harris became the face of the “purity culture” movement after writing the book I Kissed Dating Goodbye in 1997 when he was 22 years old. In the book, Harris advocated for “courtship”—entering into a relationship with the intention of marriage—rather than date-and-break up scenario that often includes pre-marital sex. The book sold 1.2 million copies.

Harris married in 1998, fathered three children, authored several more books, led a singles conference, and became the pastor of Covenant Life Church, the Maryland church founded by well-known pastor CJ Mahaney of Sovereign Grace Ministries...


Processing why Joshua Harris kissed dating his wife and Jesus goodbye, that is the top will discuss today right here on the Christian worldview radio program where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news that all people can be reconciled to God. Faith in Jesus Christ.

I'm David with the host of the program in our web site is the Christian Thank you for joining us today on the Christian worldview.

As we discussed the troubling subject today processing why Josh Harris kissed dating his wife and Jesus goodbye says in first Timothy chapter 1 this command I entrust to you, Timothy.

Paul said this to Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you. In other words, what I've told you what you've written read from Scripture that by them you fight the good fight, keeping faith in a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Now, Joshua Harris, you don't know him. He was the oldest of seven children from a prominent evangelical Christian homeschooling family, especially in the in the 90s and early 2000's.

Josh Harris became the face of what's called the purity culture movement after writing the book. I kissed dating goodbye. In 1997 when he was 22 years old.

In that book, Harris advocated for what's called courtship which is entering into our relationship with some of the opera success sex with the intention of marriage rather than the typical date and breakup scenario that often includes all sorts of physical contact before marriage, including premarital sex.

The book sold 1.2 million copies now. Shortly after writing a book Harris married in 1998. His wife's name is Shannon father three children with her. He authored several more books he A very popular singles conference and became the pastor of covenant life Church which is a church in Maryland founded by the well-known Pastor CJ Mahaney of sovereign grace ministries fast-forward to 2016.

After resigning as pastor of that church to undertake further theological training at Regent College in Vancouver. Harris announced that he was reconsidering some of the content of his best-selling book I kissed dating goodbye based on in part the negative feedback some of the feedback he received from readers will get more into that today by 2018. So last year he had actually disavowed the book distance himself from it requesting the publisher stop printing it, which they did. Now just recently becomes even more troubling.

In July of this year. So this month or just last month, Harris shocked the evangelical community by announcing that he and his wife were divorcing. But an even bigger shock came days later when Harris wrote in Instagram post.

I quote by all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian I am not a Christian unquote so this weekend on the Christian worldview were going to examine this incredibly tragic story and try to understand biblically how and why a prominent professing Christian influencer over the last 20 some years also and just walks away from Christ and first of all start out by saying that we can't know everything about the story we don't know when but not living in his home and don't know what's going on in his head. So, no doubt, there have been lots of circumstances in his life there have been lots of influences in his life and his wife's life and decisions that went into bringing them where he is today, but that being said, I think we are able to discuss what he has said publicly as we have plenty of that were to get into today and also what he's done and we we know this, that he's getting a divorce and we know he said that he doesn't consider himself to be a Christian anymore so will extrapolate some things from Matt Solis going to little more of his bio just for folks who may not remember him or know him so think there's some things to learn from just the background, a habit also just to give an idea of this, the sense of this isn't just some no person who's unknown this is. It was a very prominent evangelical Christian leader in America and in the last couple decades.

This is from Wikipedia is 44 years old. He's an American author. This is tragic. A former pastor. Harris is widely known for his book. I kissed dating goodbye mentioned that in which he laid out his ideas concerning a biblically-based Christian approach to dating and relationships, which is called the courtship movement.

I kissed dating goodbye is a mention help shape, purity, culture for many Christian millennial's, and there is lots of there's lots of things that go around this purity culture. Fathers often give their daughter a purity ring is a promise to stay a keep your virginity intact until marriage and lots of things like that that that's with the purity cultures promotes good thing your abstinence before marriage. Harris was lead pastor of covenant life Church of the founding Church of sovereign day grace ministries in Maryland from 2004 until 2015.

He's the first of seven children born to Greg and sono Harris, who were pioneers in the Christian homeschooling movement sleaziness not not just known for his book his families a very prominent evangelical family as well.

He is of Japanese descent. On his mother's side, his brothers who are twins Alex and Brett. They let them with the youth movement called the revolution. It's a is defined by its creators as a teenage rebellion against low expectations. They wrote a book called do hard things maybe this this family has very I mean very ambitious and there there there young people in the family.

Whether your late teens early 20s, or are out writing books and speaking in homeschool conventions and are out there in the public eye.

Joshua Harris also published a magazine called new attitude. I believe this is when he was in his late teens early 20s aimed at fellow homeschoolers.

He married his wife Shannon, 1998, it had three children. Here's more about his books he kissed. I kissed dating goodbye was published in 97 sold 1.2 million copies worldwide. He wrote subsequent books including boy meets girl in 2000.

That's about how he got married to his wife Shannon, in part, describing is a get engagement in and hit to his eventual wife. Then he wrote, not even a hint guarding your heart against lost in 20 in 2003, which was later renamed sex is not the problem lost is in 2005. He also wrote stop dating the church fall in love with the family of God, and 22,004, and then he wrote dug down deep in 2010 he shared his journey towards a love for theology and highlighted his passion for what he called humble orthodoxy again just to reiterate, this is not just some person who's says there Christian. One day, and a year later says while moving back over my formalwear life.

This was someone who is extremely prominent in the evangelical community in this country was listed for your little bits 2015, he announced his resignation from covenant life church due to desire to broaden his views and connect to other parts of Christianity. Not sure what that means but I quote Harris said the isolation of covenant life in a small cluster of churches of which it was a part may have led or fed leadership mistakes including the decisions of pastors himself, among them to handle a child sexual abuse case internally instead of going to police unquote. That's a side story here, but a major side story that covenant life church. There was some case and you can this is all over the Internet.

You can read for yourself and others try to briefly summarize in about 20 seconds. Apparently there is some case of sexual abuse going on within the church are not sure if it was for from church leadership toward a young person or just from a member of the church.

Whatever it is they apparently try to handle this situation internally instead of going to the police believe in many places required. If there's cases of sexual abuse or abuse of a minor.

You have to go to the police, and this created a huge, huge problem with this church see Jimmy Haney at his home almost never recovered his reputation from this particular incident. I don't know the details of it. So it's a long and sordid story can read about the Josh Harris was around during that particular time. There is no there's allegations that the elders were abusing a child or a minor in the churches that they didn't handle the case in the way they were supposed to do it help on getting that right. Anyway, proceed Harris started this conference called the new attitude conference for Christian singles in 1999 course of my book amount 1997.

So this big book sold a lot of copies and influence a lot of people speaking on and so forth any start of the singles conference in 1999. Two years later with inspiration and guidance from Louis Giglio who is the well-known founder of the passion conference, which I Think Takes Pl. in Atlanta from 99 to 2011. He continued frequently to organize and lead that conference when it became called the next conference instead of the previous name was MoveOn here don't get more into what the content of his book is and why this is so so shocking for so many people to write a book on him courtship and marriage in Boston all that and then be getting divorced and walking away from the faith in 2016.

Harris started stated that he was reconsidering the content of I kissed dating goodbye and apologize to people who said they had been hurt by his teachings in 2018. Two years later as last year he disavowed. I kissed dating goodbye and discontinued its publication. His publishers agreed that I kissed dating goodbye into other follow-up books would not be reprinted.

Once the current stock was please admit that that's a huge statement for a publisher to do that after selling probably maybe coastal couple million copies between all those books as they were not gonna print this anymore. You think will what is there does rank heresy.

The book, or what critic Christian Poe said in I kissed dating goodbye. Harris argues that traditional dating is a training ground for divorce because it puts people in the habit of quitting relationships when things get tough. In other words you date your breakup, you did again you break up you date someone else can you break up, and you're involved physically and then you break up and all of a sudden one day you get married and then through that repetition of what you've done in your life you young broken hearts he broken your own heart you it's much more easy to when things get difficult in your marriage to us to call it quits and get divorced.

That's kind of what the just of courtship is why he was promoting courtship over the typical kinds of dating relationships with which occur in this country.

The book was marketed. Teenagers and twentysomethings. It also discourages team relationships other words, it says that that you shouldn't really can be dating exclusively when you're 16 years old and say because you have really no intention of you not ready to and you have no intention of getting ready to marry at that point and so the courtship was to intentionally and purposely move someone who's at least at that stage of life.

You could be married toward marriage with the involvement and blessing of their parents as a better alternative to the typical dating scene goes on to say any kind of physical intimacy before marriage. The book argues, is a violation of the sacredness of marriage married sexuality include could lead to lifelong regret.

Regret that is the gist of the book. Now Joshua Harris wrote something about what he feel what he thought about the book, and maybe we'll have time to get into that in the end of the first, let me go get into what what changed his mind about this book. I kissed dating goodbye because the principles in the book really are actually fairly biblical. I don't I don't see that there they are wrong in and of themselves, but there was a complete repudiation of that and now by the general world and culture propose to read the book it's being used the book in Joshua Harris is being blamed for all the problems are having their marriages today.

Anyway, there's a lot more to this story and hope you can stay with us the whole time on the program today as we talk about processing. Why Joshua Harris kissed dating is in the book. Also, his wife, and ultimately Jesus goodbye were coming up on David, we, the prosperity gospel is a prominent false gospel that God offers health, wealth and prosperity.

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Without shipping to order call 1888 646-2233 or visit the Christian the next Christian worldview speaker series and is on Sunday, September 15 at 7 PM at Grace Church Eden Prairie features Darrell Harrison presenting on how social justice impacts the gospel and the church. There was a former fellow of the black theology leadership Institute Princeton theological seminary and expository Bible teacher. He has a passion for helping Christians understand what they believe and why. He'll do just that with the issue of social justice, followed by a Q&A moderated by host no cost. No registration just come. The event will also be live streamed on the Christian worldview Facebook page for more information: 1.646 2230 or visit the Christian the Christian worldview speaker series with Darrell Harrison Sunday, September 15 at 7 PM at Grace Church and: one AAA 646-2233 or visit the Christian today is Saturday, August 3, 2019 and that means we are exactly one month away from the registration deadline for the Christian worldview golf and dinner event that registration deadline is Tuesday, September 3. In the event is held on Monday, September 6 in the golf and dinner event is her annual events. It's held this year at Wood Hill country club and was at a Minnesota great golf course if you're a golfer you can love this event. You can sign up

If you're not a golfer wheeze kind of two events in one week.

Lots of people come just for the dinner portion of the event were we have a meet and greet in a great meal and a and and live radio interview with our special guest this year whose Darrell Harrison this is a really enjoyable fence. Hope you can sit coming to this event on September 16 that's a Monday Lever to get into it September. Here again the deadline is September 3 and also don't forget that the day before the night before our annual golf and dinner event is our speaker series events. It was Darrell Harrison's coming to town. He's going to be speaking on our topic is how social justice impacts the gospel and the church.

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You were going to enjoy him and he's gonna speak on social justice.

This is a highly, highly, you can emphasize how relevant this topic is now important it is with what's going on in the evangelical movement today and that Abby followed back a Q&A by the way, that event is is free. There is no cost. No registration. If you register for the golf and dinner and we need to know how many are coming to that, of course, but for the speaker series at Grace Church Eden Prairie here in Minnesota Southwest Metro. No registration, no cost.

Sunday, September 15 7 PM just come now if you live outside the Twin Cities and you want to see it but can't come and be live streaming on our Facebook page. The Christian review Facebook page. Also, by the way hot music by the higher call that night there fantastic musical group. You really can enjoy them as well. Give me questions about any of this, and even probably hearing ads between the other segments of the program, but that you can always go to our website the Christian world or just call us at one AAA eight 646-2233. Okay back to our topic processing why Josh Harris kissed dating is in the book. I kissed dating goodbye. Why kiss that book.

Goodbye but also his wife and eventually Jesus.

Goodbye work and get into that in a minute but just more on the book so the book was disavowed.

The publisher took it out of print and Josh Harris said about the book is that for many years assist him. Quoting now people have asked whether I still agree with the my book. I kissed dating goodbye. In addition to this question. Some readers have told me the book harmed them two years ago I begin the process of reevaluating the book. This including inviting people to share their stories with me on my website. Personal phone calls from readers in an in-depth study of issues surrounding my book, overseen by one of my graduate school professors is on Vancouver and finally creating a documentary film that captured the conversations with people who were reshaping my thinking on to play the audio trailer of that in just a second there is a documentary out that Josh Harris the author the book as part a part of called. I survived.

I kissed dating goodbye.

This is a huge movement and people have responded about people responded very positively to this book, but of late, as some of these people either didn't get married to read the book or got into marriages and marriage wasn't what they thought it would be.

There's been a big push back against Josh Harris in this book. He said he goes on to say, there are other weaknesses in the book to in an effort to set a high standard.

The book emphasized practices like not dating or not kissing before marriage and concept, such as giving quote giving your heart away that are not in the Bible and try to warn people of the potential pitfalls of dating it instilled fear for some fear of making mistakes or having their heartbroken. The book also gave some the impression that a certain methodology of relationships would deliver a happily ever after ending a great marriage, a great sex life. Even though that is not promised by Scripture okay on the play.

The soundbites of this documentary, that is, I believe, just released in the last day or so, or just recently and is called I survived. I kissed dating goodbye and much of the from looking at the trailer all a lot of it is particularly women who read this book are upset that things didn't turn out the way they thought they would turn out in a lot of the clips in here. You can't see it on disease radio, but are you Josh Harris sitting listening to those readers who feel like they were, you know, we hurt harmed by this book.

Here's the here's the.

The trailer were all searching for true love, the question is where are we going to find it seems these days that people are looking for love in all the wrong places. There are over 3000 dating services in America take a journey of asking hard questions and letting the answers leaned me wherever they will does Josh Harris as well so he speaks some of the beginning and he gets into some of the readers in Africa, no other than wanting to be with the rest of life is extra layer pressure shame that he voted on their way to celebrate his you personally you need is you.

I will marriage my book made people feel like they had to do things a certain way and I regret that your first courtroom didn't work or away these charity primes where girls are given a relevance with all the pedals ripped off if you don't have everything to give your like this Rosenau pedals) on anything, it becomes a weird sort of monster that was never meant to be God started with maybe some of the wrong questions.

There were things in it that were true, it didn't press down into the really important issues. What sex really means for God is there a lot of people that want me to just throw out everything throughout Christianity. They want me to apologize teaching, but I think the Bible has always thought and so I wrestled the ways in which help people. I was wrong.

Massively, my thinking has one essay. Anyone who was hurt by my book the trailer ends and really quite notable. A lot of anger, a lot of bitterness, resentment from people who read the book and things didn't turn out the way they they thought it should. So were going to get into some of that coming up and because topic of the day is and how processing why Josh Harris. He kissed three things goodbye basically kissed his book. I kissed dating goodbye goodbye and then when our anti-about how he kissed his wife goodbye and then how we kiss. Ultimately, Jesus goodbye and so you heard about the book now was get into his wife in July 2019. Harris announced that he and his wife Shannon. This was a kind of a bombshell on this took place were separating here together. It wrote the book I kissed dating goodbye.

And boy meets girl, here's out. Have a great marriage whenever there separating the getting divorced due to quote significant changes that have taken place in both of us unquote. Later that month, Harris announced that he is no. He no longer considers himself a Christian.

I here's what he wrote on Instagram about separating from his wife. In recent years some significant changes have taken place in both of us is with sincere love for one another and understanding of our unique story is a couple that we are moving forward with this decision. While we hope to create a generous and supportive future for each other and for three amazing children in the years ahead. Thank you for your understanding of respecting your privacy during a difficult, difficult time. Next thing is that he wrote just days later, on Instagram again.

He says my heart is full of gratitude. I wish you all wish you could see all the messages people sent me after the announcement of my divorce.

They are expressions of love. Though they are saddened or even strongly disapprove of the decision.

I am learning that no group has the market cornered on grace this week. I received grace from Christians, atheists, evangelicals, and here's a new term X evangelicals those who are now X evangelicals straight people. LGBT Q people and everyone in between. Of course there have always there have also been strong words of rebuke from religious people while not always pleasant. I know they are seeking to love me. There've also been spiteful, hateful comments that angered and hurt me the information that was left out of our announcement is that I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is quote deconstruction. The biblical phrases falling away, this is Josh Harris writing this by all the measurements going to quote that I have for defining the Christian I am not a Christian.

Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I'm not there now.

Martin Luther said that the entire life of believers should be repentance there is beauty in that sentiment, regardless of your view of God. I have lived in repentance for the past several years, repenting of my self-righteousness, my fear-based approach to life. The teaching of my books, my views of women in the church and my approach to parenting, to name a view, but I specifically want to add this to the list now to the LGBT Q plus community. I want to say that I am sorry for the views that I taught my books and as a pastor regarding sexuality.

I regret standing against marriage equality for not affirming you in your place in the church and for any ways that my writing and speaking contributed to a culture of exclusion and bigotry. I hope you can forgive me and then he says to my Christian friends.

I am grateful for your prayers. Don't take it personally if I don't immediately return phone calls I can't join in your morning. I don't view this moment negatively.

I feel very much alive and awake and surprisingly hopeful. I believe with my sister Julie and that all shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well. Coming back more we talk about Josh Harris kissing dating his wife and Jesus goodbye you're invited to the Christian were you golf and dinner on Monday, September 16 that would Hill country club in Wayzata, Minnesota golf registration includes 18 holes with card on one of the best courses in the state, along with lunch and dinner.

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The Christian review short takes every week he can support the ministry get resources to find out about our upcoming events in September a lot to do today were talking about processing why Joshua Harris kissing dating his wife and Jesus goodbye.

We spent two segments this. There's so much here that it takes a lot of background understand just the enormity of what took place in his life, but also not just his life, but also his wife's life as well is wife name is Shannon and now she's going by her believe it's her unmarried name Shannon bone and she create an Instagram post about the same time that this separation was going on last month and I like to play the audio of that you'll see the changes have me. You know what she was like before but again there from a prominent evangelical leadership family, and here's what she had to say just about the issue of authority and what you came out of the conservative she called the can so they should call the conservative fundamental movement crew was that my heart is deceitful above and around and therefore someone else was better what's best for me and there is a real culture are on and authority figures. Knowing where and when they're not in a spacing of the Bible better or they just they were in authority and have more power and not sure. Maybe it's the thinking that gives us certain faculties as humans that are just innate and are my spirit in our bodies. Honestly, I think it's three in line like God is three and one.

Okay, so you can is tough associate from the early part of that statement there that know people in authority that that world that we brought hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked. She does like the concept and people were using it against her, and so forth what that's exactly.

The Bible says about our hearts. Yes, I don't know exactly what experience she's talking about. But this is the kind of language someone uses when they're trying to get out from under the authority of Scripture least that's what I'm discerning from what she's she saying there beginning things with.

When you read a lot of sense to begin with. I think I feel is that of the Bible says that three get on shaky ground, so this isn't just a departure by Joshua Harris but it seems to me just in the boat, much less material out there to read about his wife but it's it's something going on there as well. So the question is why is this notable and worth discussing.

Well, I think the answer is obvious there.

This is a high profile and influential Christian of the last 20 years, and author of pastor. I comes out of the very prominent homeschooling family.

The homeschool movements big in this country. They were a strong advocate. This family wasn't Joshua Harris was for biblical morality, and in dating and courtship. There is the connection to CJ Mahaney, one of the very prominent leaders in the evangelical he's I think the concerns of a charismatic evangelical CJ Mahaney and then the problem at the church there, but I think this is also notable. Aside from just those elements is that the world has jumped on this big time you anytime there's a Christian who does this through renounces a book that has promote biblical morality and courtship over dating and that kind of thing the world can a jump on this since I see see look at this is horrible on me. It's repressive and Christianity, and you need to you to be out there you to sleep with your wife before marriage. Otherwise, me, this is ridiculous stuff that the Bible writes about look. The guy walked away from the faith he he seen the light now about what you of course you saw the things we will be read about apologizing.

Specifically, Josh Harris did to the homosexual community that to me is very suspect but would try to get into that that later. It also this kind of thing rattles Christians young people do what Joshua just rehearses getting what you renounces his book will wait now.

Now he he read that he's he's getting a divorce. The guy who wrote I kissed dating goodbye. The guys been a pastor and a leader in this know, relationships in the singles and married community this country and we know now he says he's no longer considers himself a Christian.

This rattles people rattles. It really shouldn't based on what will talk about from Scripture, but it does. It's a shocking that someone like this to was giving sermons every Sunday on the gospel on the Bible all of a sudden says well I don't want to consider myself a Christian anymore. Just to give you an idea, a taste of how those who read the book who believe the book in somehow blame the book and blame Josh Harris for their troubles. Now just give you a sense of what that sounds like there's a woman named Lisa Michelle who wrote a blog post about this. She said I blame books like this and exhausting archaic. Thinking about sexuality for a bad relationship with my husband today I was sex shamed many things to blame for my unhealthy relationship. I blame indoctrination I believe they had to marry the guy went II went too far with for making me believe it was wrong to have sexual natural feelings. I lived in fear of giving up my virginity to soon. I waited until marriage. The reason I'm offering advices. I now know all the things I thought I was doing right were in fact unwise choices for me. Sex was a mystery. I crave it like people crave food. I got married so I could have sex when you make sex off limits. It becomes a craving. This explains why there are so many sexual abuse situations in the church please stop sexual shaming youth bodies change a mature sex is natural.

I am livid.

I was taught it was dirty and bad. I'm disgusted to think of courtship is healthy. We now know it is not okay mean this is jumping to conclusions that Josh Harris never made in his book and this is someone who is who is a bad marriage apparently was divorced and is looking for someone to blame that instead of just repenting of their sin and turning to God and saying how can I follow you accurately and repetitively. This is someone is looking for someone to blame. On the flipside, there was a commenter on to the Christian Post name Dale McNamee by the wedding is very interesting.

I'm not quite sure what to make of it, but everyone in the trailer of I survived.

I kissed dating goodbye was the least I could see you at least most of them and think about your 9/10 were women who were against what happened to them from reading I kissed dating goodbye and this woman also the women pushing back against it.

You don't hear from many men. For some reason I'm not sure exactly why but here's one man who said this Dale McNamee. He said I was celibate and abstinent before marriage, as was my future wife and we were friends.

Although all through our dating and avoid situations where temptation would happen. We both believed in and follow the Bible teaching regarding sex and thought it not that hard and we are both 28 years old and have rejected the secular cultures focus on free sex will be married for 38 here's this November 7 so there's someone who who follow the principles up to basically of dye kissed dating goodbye and turned out. Now there married 38 years later, so obviously doesn't come down to some book that they read in their their 20s, but it comes down to what the heart pursues okay moving on. How can this happen. How does someone go from writing books Christian leader being an influencer and an advocate for these kinds of things to all of a sudden kiss the book and his wife in Christ. Goodbye.

Will Josh Harris did an interview and a camera before the interview was with trying to find where it was 21 to be courting them directly, but you can look it up online, but that he was asked when did you first start to notice.

There were a lot of people who were hurt by the book.

He said I remember reading criticism early on, but I have people around me at the time who were saying you just need to stand your ground. You need to be a strong leader.

You're too worried about people's criticism. So I shoved all that aside, you can't measure the results of the book after only one year, but after 15 years went by people who adopted these ideas and try to put my book in the practice suddenly had a track record. There is data without people saying this help me get out of an unhealthy lifestyle, I marry my spouse because his book Amy, the good insight or people saying hey, this didn't work. This actually damaged me this traumatized me. Those voices begin to be heard online. But honestly I didn't pay enough attention. That's one of the regrets that I have I think is was easy for me just to write off people as heaters. Okay, next question. So when did you start listening.

What were the most common objections, the un-unhealthy view of romance and sexuality. He writes and answers. In particular, the idea that the human heart is this limited resource.

So don't give some of it away member that was one of the premises of the book and don't date and breakup is a kind of leads to conditioning your heart to email give up her napping up the love someone, and in the future because you've Artie given your heart away. What were your reasons for stepping down from church leadership and going back to study theology with the short answer is that I was just completely burned out for ministry we had gone through about five years of internal political upheaval and tension in church splits and movement splits again member that was back to that sexual abuse situation of the church in our church was hit with a lawsuit related to reported reporting sexual abuse on local and that whole thing today so all of what to get to some points.

What would we make of that. This whole story. I think there's two main points that I really think where things again. We can't know the whole story. Don't know the influence of those two observations.

All this make on this particular star will get to one before the break, and then one after this final break. The first thing is Josh Harris listen to people he started listening to his critics of the book is actually right biblically right to listen to critics who listen to critics when to listen to them in one year but holding the Bible in one hand. Another words, you can't just let criticism or pushback from people be necessarily well there's a lot of it, or it sounds right. When you look at actually what they're saying whether it is actually true.

There is listen to people with the Bible in your hands.

You listen to people more than he apparently read the word because the principals in his book actually fairly sound them you could take them to foreign maybe you could just follow the principles and ask have expectations but the principles of not being physically involved before marriage but the biblical principle the principles of not breaking your heart over and over and dating indiscriminately.

Well I think that's fairly supportable in Scripture putting yourself in situations of temptation before you're ready to be married come back will discuss much more of this. After this final break the day here in the Christian world.

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Kiss dating is book Ike is getting goodbye goodbye. His wife, and eventually Jesus goodbye and I can see we have a lot more to get to it may not get to it all this week so I think you have to do a part tube is we haven't even got to some of the really big questions year about not only the divorce but the even bigger question is how does a a professing Christian who is in this kind of leadership is preaching the Bible all of a sudden says I no longer consider myself to be a Christian when the issue of once were saved are only always saved, or can you walk away from the faith. I think that deserves a lot more time than we be able to give a hearing lasting eight or nine minutes of the program so will continue with that next week, but for this. The rest of this week a couple takeaways of what we've talked about today him you who Joshua Harris is what his books were specifically the book I kiss dating to bind the principles in the book and then why he repudiated and walked away from that book and that he started listening to his critics and you know seeing truth and what they were saying and then said Malta stumped the whole thing out will that wasn't. I don't believe the right thing to do. There was lots of really I didn't read the book but there's been lots of summaries have been reading about getting ready for this program about the book and note the book is basically about young pursue courtship don't pursue unintentional non-purposeful dating, especially before time that your you're married me that that makes that's good common sense you know if you want to avoid getting involved in your sexual morality before marriage. Why would you date someone exclusively when you're 17 or 18 years old when you have no intention you're not ready to be married and single say until you're 23 years old makes no sense. Now getting together in groups or whatever, but of the exclusive sort of, you're really serious dating. Why would you do that when you're 16, 17 years old. By the way, that's what I it's a modern phenomenon in an America mean there is no that that cut a dating model was never known in human history must be essay before about 100 years ago mean that courtship approval from parents are even arranged marriages. This was the way people got married. Let's say before 1900. Basically, I'm sure there is some dating and so forth. But biological we seen the dating scene today is something that's a new phenomenon in American culture now around around the world. Of course, before that marriage is treated getting married was treated much more soberly and much more precisely parents arranging for sons and daughters to get married. There is no approval of the parents married in your court.

Your Whole kind of thing is I think Joshua Harrison somewhere in his book was probably trying to to get back to a more controlled dating courtship environment, but I think he listened to his critics without the Bible in his hand and realizing that the principles he had in his book about not engaging in premarital sex. That's true and accurate. That's good, but the second thing is the principles in his book are good and biblical but you have to always remember that there is no formula or following principles. Principles in and of themselves, never ultimately prevails because there must be a heart a willing heart that loves and obeys God above all else. In other words, you can check the boxes of why didn't have sex before marriage. I never kiss my wife before marriage.

We didn't hold hands before marriage.

I'm a professing Christian I believe in Jesus and then walk into marriage thinking that will everything cynical fine will. That's not the way it works. I mean there's there's a constant battle against our sin nature. You can't just check boxes and you think you've done there. The prerequisite courses here and then everything's in turn out fine. Down the road, not the way it works at all. When you are hearts need to be to love God, to love obeying him. The Christian life is one of repentance and sanctification. So as you get into marriage. There's a lot more life to live where there is a continuing sanctifying sanctifying presence or action that needs to be taking place in our lives and I think what you seen the pushback is people who who did these things, who didn't hold answer didn't kiss before marriage or try to follow the principles of this book. They now have problems in their marriages or never got married because net the right one never came along, the one the court that never came along.

So now they're looking for someone to blame but I say to all that. What exactly is there are alternative that they were proposing it. If not, what Josh Harris was intimating out in his book. I mean, some dating and some sex before marriage or lots of kissing lots of me.

Another words, what was the alternative just kind of a freelove society that that's what secular society offers right now. I mean that that's that's not God glorifying it all joy Pullman wrote an article in the Federalist.

She had read Harris's book she said as Harris's experience in the history of American Christianity shows legalism inevitably leads to antinomianism. So if you take the principles of his book and say you know because we never kiss before marriage because we never had sex before marriage. Therefore now this makes me a sanctified person. If that's your mentality. It's a legalistic mentality instead of saying were not going to have sex before marriage because that's glorifying to God, but does make me save. It does make me right with God. It is make me a sanctified person.

It just makes me obedient to what God wants.

Okay. But when you're legalistic about those things she says inevitably leads to antinomianism. That means no law. Antinomianism is the fancy Fiala theological term for rebelling against God's law. After observing how hard it is to keep its how the Puritans turned into social gospellers. Thus, as in human nature. People ping-pong between opposite sides of the gutter rather than taking a straight course between them. But Christianity delineates the straight course, not the got another as you can be and that the gutter of legalism on one side or as you read, and a lot of people's responses. The Josh Harris's book the room how they're gonna run over there side and being the in the non-legalistic the antinomianism. I don't want any of this stuff in my life. I'm gonna live the way I want to live, and sex is natural. I'm in a do it and that sort of the the ping-pong back and forth that she's talking about in this in this she goes on to say perhaps because I took his ideas about romance merely under advisement as some practical tips from a countercultural perspective and that supported biblical restrictions on sex Harris's book positively affected my life. They help encourage my decision to delay dating until college and sex until marriage. Both excellent decisions. In retrospect, although difficult, if my parents of youth pastor decide to enforce courtship on me as if some personal guidelines are equal to biblical commands. I will probably be joining the course of hate is prompt as Harris to offer several very public Mia Culp was as it is, however, I have gratitude for his public stand against the tide it in. More importantly, the Christian commands.

It took seriously saved me a lot of grief. All right, so there's a whole other element to the story that we need to get to next week. Beyond the repudiation of the book. I kissed dating goodbye and why that was done listening to your critics more than listening to the word of God, but that is about how does someone like Josh Harris not only repudiate the book but then go on to kiss his wife goodbye and ultimately Jesus goodbye.

We will get into that situation next week at the difficult discussion to have about can you actually lose your faith in the true Christian walk away from the faith with assess that in full next week on the Christian really hope you can join us for that conversation and we do live in a changing and challenging world, but above all, we discussed today.

There's always one thing we should look to entrust in and that is this Jesus Christ and his word. They are the same yesterday today and forever until next weekend. Everyone think biblically and live accordingly. We hope today's broadcast turned your heart toward God's word and his son to order a CD copy of today's program or sign up for our free weekly email or to find out how you can be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ go to our website the Christian world dawdle.

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