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Antidote to Deconstruction—Embracing the Truth of Christ

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton
The Truth Network Radio
April 16, 2022 8:00 am

Antidote to Deconstruction—Embracing the Truth of Christ

The Christian Worldview / David Wheaton

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April 16, 2022 8:00 am

GUEST: RAY COMFORT, Evangelist, The Evidence Study Bible

Deconstruction. It’s a current term for the age-old affliction the Bible calls apostasy—departing from professed orthodoxy to heterodoxy, often in the form of theological liberalism or atheism.

Joshua Harris, once a popular pastor and author, went through a highly publicized “de-conversion”. There have been many others, often in their twenties and thirties, leading to the coining of another term—Exvangelical.

This Easter weekend, evangelist Ray Comfort joins us to explain what is behind this deconstruction and how to present the gospel to avoid false conversions.


The antidote to deconstruction. That is the topic we'll discuss today this Easter weekend on the Christian Worldview radio program, where the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. I'm David Wheaton, the host. The Christian Worldview is a nonprofit, listener-supported radio ministry. Thank you to listeners like you and also our national sponsor, Samaritan Ministries, who provide a biblical solution to healthcare.

You can connect with us by calling our toll-free number 1-888-646-2233 or by visiting Deconstruction is a current term for the age-old affliction the Bible calls apostasy, which is not just false doctrine but turning away from a biblical understanding of Jesus Christ. Joshua Harris, once a popular pastor and author, went through a highly publicized, quote, deconversion.

There have been many others, often in their 20s and 30s, leading to the coining of another term, ex-vangelical. This Easter weekend evangelist Ray Comfort joins us to explain what is behind this deconstruction and how to present the gospel in a way that avoids false conversions. Let's get straight to the interview with Ray Comfort.

Ray, it's so good to have you back on The Christian Worldview this Easter weekend. I want to start out by reading an article from an online publication called The New Republic. I believe it's kind of a left-wing publication. The title of the column was The Life Coaches Who Are Fueling the Ex-Evangelical Movement.

They're called ex-vangelicals. I'm not going to read the whole column, but I just want to read one paragraph and then ask you a question. Micah Murray is one of a growing number of, quote, deconstruction coaches who provide intellectual, spiritual, and emotional support to others who are unpacking, or deconstructing, to use the parlance of the day, their conservative religious upbringing. While Murray is an atheist in seminary, many other coaches are Christian. Though their motivations and methods vary, these professionals all agree that religion influenced by conservative political dogma, which they call white evangelicalism in particular, has been disastrous for individuals and society alike, as leaders have used doctrine to support such evils as misogyny, sexual abuse, racism, eugenics, and xenophobia, unquote. That's from The New Republic, an article on deconstruction. Now, as you know, Ray, there have been some well-known Christians, whether from the Christian music industry, Joshua Harris, pastor, I Kissed Dating Goodbye, a very well-known author, and he was actually a pastor, have, quote, deconstructed. So is this deconstruction of evangelicals, especially younger evangelicals, is that something that you are encountering, and if so, to what degree?

Well, let me just firstly say it's actually good news. Whenever tears are separated from the wheat, whenever goats are separated from the sheep before the day of judgment, it's good. When Judas comes out and admits that he's been a thief and separates himself from the disciples, it's good. And the day is coming when Jesus will separate the true from the false.

And what's happened with modern evangelistic methods for the last 50 or 60 years is instead of preaching the straight gate and the narrow way, we've made it broad and easy and said, just give your heart to Jesus. He'll give you what you're looking for, God-shaped vacuum in your heart, use psychological manipulation at the altar, music to stir the emotion, reaping decisions for Jesus, 90% of which fall away, and many stay within the church until tribulation, temptation, persecution causes them to fall away and go back to their sins where their heart is anyway. Remember, the scripture likens someone who goes back to sin as a pig wallowing in the mire and a dog returning to his farmer. A pig doesn't wallow in the mire because it's dirty, it wallows in the mire because it wants to cool his flesh. And a false convert never finds a place of genuine repentance. Consequently, the Adamic nature comes through and the flesh requires cooling, and so they go back to the world where their heart is anyway. And so this is good news because the church is being purified, and that's one thing that COVID has done.

It's separated the true from the false. So this is nothing new. It's been going on right from the moment the gospel was preached 2,000 years ago. Ray Comfort joins us today here on The Christian Real View.

He's an evangelist and founder of Living Waters Ministry. Ray, the evangelical church, as you mentioned in your last answer, seemed to be very accommodating to the world in terms of lifestyle. The music, the way people dress when they come to church, kind of the culture of evangelicalism.

It's not very, very different than mainstream American culture. Even living together before marriage, once a really strong taboo amongst evangelicals, is sort of becoming more accepted. Bible prophecy is being fulfilled right now, day and age. I mean, it's called a pandemic.

I've had a plague, a worldwide plague for the last couple of years. And one of the other signs of the end of the age is men will have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. So what's happened is when the pulpits have failed to preach the fear of God, people haven't departed from sin, and they've yielded their lives to Jesus in a so-called profession of faith. And as I said, it's a fulfillment of what the scriptures speak of in the parable of the sower. The false convert, the stony grand hearer, the thorny grand hearer, received the word with joy and gladness.

There's no sorrow for sin. The thorny grand hearer is excited by the pleasures of the world, and those thorns and concerns choke him. The stony grand hearer falls away when tribulation, temptation, and persecution come.

When the sun shines, it causes that plant to wither and die. So let me just bounce off this if I may, David, into something that's really, really important when it comes to proclamation of the gospel, if I may talk about that for a moment. In the parable of the sower, we see four hearers. And I've heard modern preachers say something like this, look, if you've got disappointing evangelical results and people are falling away from the faith, don't be discouraged because only one in four responded to the parable of the sower, in the parable of the sower. That is a 25% fall away rate, sorry, 25% retention rate and a 75% fall away rate is biblical. I don't believe that's true. I don't believe Jesus gave the parable of the sower as a consolation for disappointing evangelistic results.

I think it holds certain keys. Now, if you look at the genuine convert, the good soil hearer, he brings forth fruits some 40, some 60, some 100 fold. You'll see he had a virtue, the others didn't. Says he hears and understands.

That's the key. So does that mean that out there in the world, there are people who are going to understand the gospel and when they hear it, they'll embrace it? No, that's not biblical. Romans chapter three says there is none who understand. And so that understanding doesn't come from within the human heart, it must come from without because there's none who understand. Well, what is it that produces understanding? Oh, Galatians 3 24 tells us, wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

The purpose of a schoolmaster is to bring knowledge and produce understanding. And you'll see Jesus using the schoolmaster in Mark 10 verse 17 and 18. Rich young ruler came to Jesus and said, good master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? So Jesus said, why do you call me good? There's none good but God. And then he gave him the commandments.

Why? To produce understanding, to produce the knowledge of sin. The apostle Paul said, I had not known sin but by the law. And so that means, and don't get me wrong because I believe in the sovereignty of God and no man can come to the son unless the father draws him. That means we can determine the soil upon which we sow seed.

If you don't use the law, you're going to have hard soil. You're going to have people that don't really care about the gospel, don't value it and they fall away in time. But if you take the time to use the schoolmaster, you can have a good soil hearer right in front of you listening and embracing the gospel. And I see it all the time.

Our YouTube channel just passed 195 million views and people say, boy, you're gifted. No, I'm not. I'm just using a biblical principle that Jesus used and you can do the same. Ray Comfort with us today here on the Christian Real View Radio program, an evangelist, also the author of the commentary of the Evidence Study Bible. And we're going to be featuring that here at the Christian Real View.

We'll tell you how you can get this excellent biblical Bible resource. And we're focusing on these topics today in light of Easter weekend, and we're going to get into more of what Ray just talked about there about the law in evangelism and understanding that we're sinners and that's why we need to be saved. We're alienated from God because we've broken his law.

Before we get to that though, Ray, just a couple more questions on this deconstruction issue. As I read some articles on it and why people so-called deconstruct their faith or really depart from what they previously believed or were raised in more of a conservative evangelical home, the issues that will be brought up are something like the sovereignty of God. They looked at all the pain and suffering in the world or World War II concentration camps and they think, how could a good God allow something like that? Or they look to Scripture and say that this book, the Bible, is in spite of God, it's tired by God, it's infallible, it's inerrant. That's just a little bridge too far.

They learned more as they got older. Or the exclusivity of Christ, that Christ is the only way to salvation, so that means that all other ways are ways that will not make you right with God. The issue of sexuality is one that comes up over and over and over again.

Homosexuality, that is wrong, that's sinful. Or transgenderism, there's this perception that evangelicals have really treated those people or homosexuals and transgender people, that whole community, in a very, very hateful and bigoted way. The issue of social justice, Ray, is a big one. They see that Christians don't care about the other. That's one of their excuses or reasons for deconstruction. Another big one is conservative politics. Oh, evangelicals supported Trump, therefore Trump is this terrible person who you obviously couldn't be a Christian and actually vote for him. As you hear these reasons, and I'm sure there are others, what is the bottom line of the bottom line, do you think, that leads a person to depart from previously professed belief?

Well, all those subjects you brought up have wonderful answers, which we could get to those, but let's go to what I believe is the cause. And it comes up so often. Let's say we've got someone who's an atheist in front of me, and he says, look, I'm an atheist, I used to be a Christian. And I said, did you know the Lord? No, I didn't.

I thought I did. So he was deceived. He thought he knew the Lord. He faked it.

Judas lasted three years, but this guy lasted longer. I said, you're an atheist? He says, yeah. So you really believe the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything? He said, well, I don't believe nothing created everything.

It was something in the beginning. It just wasn't God. I said, well, let's see if we can find out why you don't want it to be God.

And you find out that he's living with his gorgeous girlfriend, having sex with her, and he's feasting on pornography at the same time, and it's got nothing to do with intellectuals and all these arguments that come up with the fact that he's enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season. And often I get them to admit it. I say, am I right?

I did it to a guy yesterday. Am I right about that? He says, yeah, you are. And so the whole issue of suffering is just crazy. It makes no sense at all.

Let me just explain, if I may. Someone says I don't believe in the Bible or God because of suffering. God could not be a God of love.

He wouldn't allow suffering to go on. That's like buying a brand new Toyota. And you look at it and say it's beautifully made.

I mean, look at the interior. It's just, everything is just so, the manufacturers are just marvelous. And you praise Toyota for their magnificent manufacturer of this vehicle. But then the accelerator gets stuck, which has happened in past years with the Toyotas, and have a crash in an intersection and people get killed and there's bodies lying around and people groaning and that.

So then you say to yourself, wow, look at all the suffering. Therefore, nobody made my car. That doesn't make sense. To leap like that, there's suffering, therefore, nobody made this vehicle. That's just illogical. It's more logical to say, look at all the suffering.

Something went radically wrong. So for someone to say, look at how everything is wonderfully made. You've got flowers and birds and trees. You've got seasons.

You've got fruits. We can see the genius of God's creative hand. Look at all the suffering. Therefore, nobody created everything. It all just happened by itself.

That's crazy. It's an illogical leap. The illogical leap to go to is that something went radically wrong. And the book of Genesis tells us exactly what went wrong. Man rebelled against God. God's curse came upon the earth. And now we walk in rebellion to him and we've got all these things to show us that God's not happy with earth. We've got disease, pain, suffering, death, earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, all these things all around us that shouldn't be used as excuses to reject God in the Bible, but very real reasons to accept exactly what he says in his word.

Well said. Ray Comfort with us today on The Christian Real View, an evangelist, the founder of Living Waters. Their website is linked at our website, Need to get connected with this ministry. They have so many helpful videos, Street Evangelism. We watch a lot of those, Ray.

We just really enjoy them and learn from them. Highly encourage our listeners to do so and go to their YouTube channel and do that. You can also go to our store at and order the Evidence Study Bible. This is the Bible that Ray has written the commentary for.

We have it in the hardcover version at I just want to read a passage from the book of Jude, Ray, where Jude writes, But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life, and have mercy on some who are doubting, save others, snatching them out of the fire, and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh. I think there's some relevance here with someone who may be listening today who has some doubts. They hear you, it maybe makes some sense to them, but there's some issues they have doubts about. What should someone do when they have doubts about elements of the Christian faith? Or for someone who's listening today who knows someone who's having doubts, how can that person help someone who's having doubts? If you're not a Christian, don't worry about your doubts about the Bible.

And this is why. When the church first started 2,000 years ago, the Bible hadn't been put together, no such thing as the New Testament. They didn't have the printing press. Very few people could read, and Jesus didn't say, Go unto all the world and convince everybody the Bible's the inspired word of God.

That's not our Great Commission. The Bible is a spiritual book. It makes no sense until you're born of the Spirit. It's just a dry, old history book. And when God opens the eyes of your understanding, then the Scriptures make sense.

They're an open book. The books of the Bible are instructions to us on how to get everlasting life and how to live this life. Old Testament, God promised to destroy death. New Testament tells us exactly how He did it. So Charles Burgeon said something like this. He said, in regards to doubting the Bible or trying to prove the Bible's the word of God, he says, Trying to defend the Bible is like walking in front of a lion with a sword. You don't need to do that.

It can protect itself. The Bible is axiomatic. You just have to study the prophecies of Scripture and see the finger of God all over His word. Only God knows the future. Man doesn't know the future. Even our forecasters get it wrong, and many a parade has been rained upon because they got it wrong. If we knew the future, we'd all move to Las Vegas and say where the dice is going to roll and become billionaires overnight.

Well, we don't even know what's going to happen in half an hour. And so only God knows the future, and He's given us the future in His word, showing us this book, the most popular book ever written, the biggest seller of all time, the most hated book at the same time, is the word of God, telling us how we can find everlasting life. So what sinners need to hear is the gospel biblically presented, not an intellectual argument about the existence of God or the infallibility of Scripture, etc. When you understand you're a sinner, that you need a savior, that death is coming for you and there's nothing you can do about it, that'll cause you to drop to your knees and say, God, I need your help, because only God has life. I like to ask people, why do you think billions of people around the world and all these great religions seek after God? What's the big deal? What's God got that we haven't got?

Sometimes they get it, most times they don't. God is life. He's the source of life. He is eternal life. We are finite.

We're waiting to die. If we want to keep this precious life, we've somehow got to find God. And that's what religion is about. But in Christianity, God made a way for us to have fellowship with Him through Jesus the Son. And that's another story that we can look on a little further.

Yeah. Ray Comfort with us today. We need to take a brief pause, help us sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ by becoming a Christian Real View partner.

Just call 1-888-646-2233. Visit or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Pastor James Coates was arrested and sent to prison a couple of weeks ago in Canada.

What did he do? He held a church service. And it isn't the government's responsibility to protect us from a virus.

What's their responsibility to protect our God given rights? Two days after that sermon, Pastor James Coates was arrested and imprisoned. He has now co-authored an important book titled God vs. Government, taking a biblical stand when Christ and compliance collide. God vs. Government is 208 pages, softcover, and retails for $17.99. You can order a copy for a donation of any amount to the Christian Real View. Go to or call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331.

That's 1-888-646-2233 or David Wheaton here, host of the Christian Real View Radio Program. Listeners are often surprised to learn that we as a ministry pay to broadcast on the radio station, website, or app on which you are listening today. That expense is recouped through listeners like you making a donation or becoming a Christian Real View partner. Our aim is to have each broadcast outlet fully supported by the listeners of that outlet. If you would like to help us in our mission to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ, go to and click on 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Specify how you listen as that helps us decide whether to continue on a given outlet and be sure to select one of our resources as a thank you for your support. And welcome back to the Christian Real View. I'm David Wheaton. Visit our website where you can subscribe to our free weekly email and annual print letter.

You can order resources for adults and children and support the ministry. Now back to the interview with evangelist Ray Comfort. This is Easter weekend, crucifixion Friday and resurrection Sunday, the most important moment weekend in human history.

Everything before it looks toward it and everything now looks back to it. Whether you believe in it or not, this is the most important critical issue in all of life, what Jesus Christ did that weekend. And so I want to read just a short paragraph of another story of someone deconstructing and give you the reason why they did. It was about the atonement, actually, what took place this weekend. John Williamson is a co-founder of the Deconstructionist podcast, and he found evangelicalism attractive as a 20-something, but by the time his first child was born, he started to wonder, do I believe this?

Or just because this is what I was told? One of the major areas Williamson found himself rethinking was atonement theory, as they call it, in the concept of original sin. On one side of our mouth or preaching to the world, he said that this God is all loving and His love is unconditional.

There's nothing that you need to do to be given this gift of unconditional love. And then out of the other side of our mouth, we're preaching that you are born a terrible person and Jesus had to die. God had to allow this to happen in order for you to be forgiven. I had a hard time reconciling the two, he says. This is Easter weekend, Ray, and in the beginning of your evidence study Bible, you have a really, really good introduction to the Bible, where there's an article titled, Why Christianity?

Solving Life's Most Important Question. And this is the most important question, how can we as sinners be made right with the Holy God? And this man who's so-called deconstructed here, this is what he couldn't handle, this idea of atonement theory, as he called it, that we're sinners and God's going to judge our sin and we need to be made right with him through the shed blood of Christ on a cross. It didn't make sense. So you go through in this column or this article at the beginning of the evidence study Bible, outlined it into four things. You start out with understanding, having an accurate knowledge of who God is, his character, his laws, as you've already discussed today, and his perfect justice on every sin and every sinner.

Why do you start there? Let me just address this deconstructionist argument because it's so fallacious. What he's done is he's created a straw man in that saying something isn't true. It's probably what he's being told, but it just isn't true. And it's a form of idolatry.

This is what he said. God is all loving and his love is unconditional. Both those aren't biblical. God is not all loving. God is love, but he's not all loving. To say he's all loving, it's like seeing a criminal looking at a judge and saying, Judge, you're all loving, so you're just going to let me go on that basis.

That's the inference. The other one is God's love is unconditional. He's just so oozing with love he has no sense of justice or righteousness or truth. Ask Sodom and Gomorrah if God lost patience with them or the Noahic generation.

He destroyed the whole earth because he's so holy and every man's imagination was evil and there was violence upon the earth. So to say God is all loving and his love is unconditional just creates an idol that doesn't make sense when it comes to judgment. Back to the exclusivity of Christ. There's a reason Jesus is exclusive and it's because God is utterly holy. You look at the great religions of Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, literally billions of followers.

They are great in number. What they're trying to do is earn God's favor by their works, righteousness, religion. What they don't understand, and this is what our friend who is a false convert doesn't understand, is that God is a judge. He's a perfect and holy judge and we're criminals. When you leave out the law, it doesn't show us to be criminals but when the moral law comes in and we've admitted to lying and stealing and blasphemy, using God's name as a cuss word and he gave us life, looking at women with lust and committing adultery in the heart, fornicating, hating people and committing murder, that shows us we're criminals who have violated the law so anything we try and offer the judge in the area of religious works or good works is actually a detestable attempt to bribe the judge of the universe.

The Bible says God will not be a bride. The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord. If you're guilty and you've got no justification in court, you throw yourself on the mercy of the judge. The Bible says God is rich in mercy and he provided payment himself. He satisfied his law by providing payment like a judge can let a criminal go.

If he's got speeding fines, he might say, look, you've got a lot of speeding fines here. This is serious, but somebody paid them so you're out of here. You're free to go. Even though you're guilty, you walk and God has made a way for you and I as sinners to be free to walk for death, to be taken off us all because that payment was made on that cross. That's what we celebrate at Easter. Even though we're guilty, we walk. We live forever because of God's mercy.

That's good news for Hindus, good news for borders, good news for Muslims, good news for atheists. You can keep your precious life. You don't need to get religious.

Just fling yourself on the mercy of God and he's rich in mercy to all that call upon him. That's what's missing with this poor guy. He's probably the result, the product of the methods of modern evangelism. He was told God is so loving. Sin wasn't preached. Judgment wasn't preached. Righteousness wasn't preached. The wrath of God wasn't preached. And so he's got this idolatrous understanding of God's nature and character. And consequently, the gospel doesn't make sense. The atonement doesn't make sense. I mean, someone paying a fine for me when I don't think I've broken any law is ridiculous.

But once I realize I've broken a law and I'm in big trouble, then someone paying my fine becomes good news indeed. Ray Comfort with us today on the Christian Real View radio program. He has written many books, but the one we are featuring today is the Evidence Study Bible, the Bible for which he has written the commentary. We have it available at our website, Ray you go through in that article in your Evidence Study Bible this order of who God is and just you talked about there, his character, his perfect character, his perfect laws, and we broke them, his perfect justice in every sin and sinner. And you go into who man is, that we've broken his laws. You compare how religions, different religions, try to get right with God through doing good works, self-righteousness, rather than trusting in the Christ-righteousness. You tell who Jesus Christ is, who he is, the perfect Son of God, and what he did on this Easter weekend and pay the penalty we deserve to pay for our sin, bled and died on that cross and rose again, proving God is satisfied by his sacrifice for our sin and that we must repent and believe in the gospel.

It's really well done. And so the question is, for someone listening today, well, how would that have applied before the New Testament or before Christ came? It says in Matthew chapter 1, verse 19, and Joseph, the human father of Jesus, says he's being a righteous man and then the implication there is that he was right before God or justified before God and not wanting to disgrace his wife, he planned to send her away secretly when she was found out to be with child.

So that was just used as an example there. How would someone like Joseph or a pre-New Testament person be saved before we came to the New Testament understanding of salvation comes by faith alone without our works? Joseph would have believed in God for sure and followed Jewish religious customs, but how would he have known that salvation was by faith alone? Well, Hebrews 11 tells us all these men of God in the Old Testament had faith. That's how they approached God and faith. And often we see verses in the New Testament that tell us a certain man was blameless before God. He was righteous before God. That doesn't mean he was sinless.

Sometimes the English language lacks what the original language tells us. It means they offered blood sacrifice. They offered a lamb. They were made spotless temporarily or cleansed of their sin and blameless because of that offering. But once and for all, God offered the sacrificial lamb. I was witnessing to a Jew the other day and I said to him he was in big trouble because he had violated the law of Moses.

He saw he was in big trouble. He used God's name as a cuss word and he had sinned against God. And I said, you remember what happened in the Passover? He said, yeah, the lamb, the blood of the lamb was put on the doors and when death passed over, it didn't touch those that had faith in that and stayed in the home.

And I said, well, John the Baptist saw Jesus coming for the first time. He said, behold, the lamb of God takes away the sin of the world. His sacrifice once and for all satisfied God. That's why he said it is finished just before he dismissed the spirit.

That debt has been paid once and for all. And as I said, this is good news for the Old Testament saints because God provided the sacrifice they were looking for. Jesus said of Abraham, Abraham rejoiced to see my day. They were looking forward.

We're looking back. It's pretty complex, but God handled everything because He's God and we can do that. Ray Comfort with us today on the Christian Worldview radio program. Ray, the Evidence Study Bible that we are featuring today, of which you wrote the commentary, listeners can get it at our website,, is full of apologetics. In other words, reasons and evidence for why we believe what we believe. At the same time, I've heard you say that apologetics isn't really the driving force, I guess, maybe for lack of a better word, as to someone becoming a true believer.

How do you reconcile the issue of proclaiming the gospel, as you've been talking about today, as the most important thing rather than trying to prove, let's say, the apologetic reasons for why scripture is true versus understanding or practicing apologetics? Ray Comfort We're called to be fishers of man, and you can either use a net or a line. And when you bait a hook, you make sure you just don't have bait. You don't tie bait to your line and throw it out, because you're going to end up with fat, happy fish that get away. What you do is you use the bait to disguise the hook. That's how you catch fish. Apologetics are the bait, and the hook is God's law. If I went up to someone and I want to get them hooked, I don't show the hook immediately.

I use bait. Just yesterday, I said to a guy, as we began, do you believe in evolution? Do you believe God made man in his own image as man and female, or do you believe in evolution? He said, well, I believe in evolution wholeheartedly. I said, well, answer me this. How does death come into this whole thing?

Where did it come from? Because evolution says survival of the fittest, and nobody survives. Everybody dies. And he changed his mind. He says, well, it's survival of the longest. I said, are you bringing in a new theory into evolution?

He said, yes, I am, because it makes no sense. Evolution is unscientific. It's unproven and unprovable. You have to receive it by blind faith. The scientific method says you test it and observe it. The theory of evolution can't be tested. It can't be observed.

How can you test and observe something that happened as long as 60 million years ago? It's ridiculous. And so I just used that as bait for his intellect. And then I just said, well, do you think you're a good person?

It was just a complete change of subject. Sometimes I say to someone, look, I've been addressing your intellect. I'd like to address your conscience.

Is that okay? And they say, yeah, because they see nothing wrong with that, because they've got a good conscience. They haven't done anything wrong. So they think. And then out comes the hook of God's law, which pulls them in to understanding the gospel.

So there's a balance. Often in open air preaching, I will use apologetics to get a crowd, because there's nothing convicting about apologetics. It doesn't make you feel guilty. Someone can walk away from hearing apologetics for an hour and say, oh, well, I believe the Bible is the word of God now and still end up in hell. They can believe that God exists because you refused apologetics because they haven't been alarmed. There's a difference between being awakened and being alarmed. You can awaken a sinner with apologetics, but you've got to alarm him. It's like a man in a building that's burning. You awaken him and say, your house is on fire. Get up.

Yeah, I get up. He's not alarmed. He's just awakened. He's lying there in the smoke, not realizing he's got to get out.

What the law does is it alarms him because the conscience is set off like an alarm and he realizes he's in big trouble. He's heading for hell and needs to get out of the house of sin real quick and trust in the mercy of God. So well said, Ray Comfort with us today here on the Christian Royal View.

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Whiteness has caused blindness of heart. That message that they're going out and taking the world is not, you need to repent of your sin, receive Christ. Instead, the message that you actually have is they are under the weight of racism or sexism or homophobia. The proceeding is from Enemies Within the Church, a two-hour documentary film that exposes how social justice ideology is infecting the church. You can order the DVD for a donation of any amount to the Christian Real View. Go to or call 1-888-646-2028 or write to Box 401 Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. That's 1-888-646-2233 or Thanks for joining us today on the Christian Real View. I'm David Wheaton. Just a reminder that today's program and past programs are archived at our website,

Transcripts are also available. Now back to the interview with evangelist Ray Comfort. Ray, I think if I'm remembering correctly, I've seen you do a video or two recently just about the situation in America and the world in the end times. When you look at the situation in our country right now, what our country is promoting, what this administration's promoting, what's taking place, we see recently with Disney, the targeting, almost the grooming of children into sexual perversion, all these corporations, the way the, as you mentioned, the way the COVID was handled by this country, the way our schools, I mean, there's just, there's so many things we could, issues we could go into on that.

When you just look at that overall situation, I know you're well aware of all of them. What is your perspective on where we are in history right now, maybe with regard to the end times? All these terrible things are actually really good news. And it's because it's making a church pull back and say, hey, we've been fighting on a hill that we thought we're going to die on and we are dying on it. We're losing ground in all these social issues that are justified to fight, but we're in a losing battle. We're not winning with abortion. We're not winning with a homosexual issue or pornography or all these things. And it's because that's not the hill we're to climb, not the battle of morality. We should be proclaiming the gospel. That's what the disciples did.

I mean, I did a study recently in the book of Acts to try and find out what the social issues were of the day in the book of Acts with the church. And you can't find them. They're not even addressed. I mean, they were there, the homosexuality, we know that. And we know adultery and fornication and child slavery and sexuality, all those things were there, but they weren't addressed because that wasn't the hill the church was prepared to die on.

The hill we're to die on is Calvary's Hill. It's the gospel because that changes the heart of man. So he would never instigate an abortion. So he would never practice homosexuality. So he would never get into adultery or fornication or pornography.

Why? Because God's changed his heart. So Jesus didn't come to fix society. He came to save us from wrath to come.

We've been given a parachute, not for a better flight, but to save us from the jump to come. And so all these issues are making us fall back and say, what are we doing wrong? Well, what we're doing wrong is we haven't proclaimed the gospel from the pulpits. It's not the priority of the church. Evangelism is a dirty word in many people's books. You can go to a church of 3000 and say to the pastor, where is your evangelistic team?

He's over there, those sort of widows that go out on Friday night, there's six of them. It's almost like that. It's not like the church of the book of Acts. When I came to the US, one thing that excited me was that how everybody moved over to the right on the roads when an emergency vehicle was coming through. We didn't do that in New Zealand because there's, I guess there's not enough cars, there's room for the vehicles to get through. But in this country, there's so many cars, you hear that siren, you pull over to the right and let them through because someone's life could be at stake. And there's an emergency vehicle called evangelism.

And what we must do is pull over and let that through. It's got to have priority because sinners' lives are at stake. And so my prayer is that the church gets back to biblical evangelism, that it becomes a priority in the pulpit and in the pews. We're living definitely in the last days. I don't know how long until the coming of Christ, but I don't know any Bible prophecy that's not being fulfilled at the moment. It means hearts are failing them for fear, which is coming up on the earth, things coming on the earth. There are plagues, plagues, you know, back a hundred years. That's when they had plagues.

This is a modern era. We don't have to have plagues now. Well, we just had one and we see Jerusalem back in the hands. We see Russia mustering force above Israel and the nation rising against nation and rebellious youth and all the signs given in the book of Timothy and Matthew, the end of Matthew. But the great sign that I think is often ignored is that Jesus said, when all these things come to pass, then the gospel must be preached and then shall the end come. And so one sign of the end of the age of culmination of all these signs is the proclamation of the gospel of everlasting life. And so if you and I want to be involved in Bible prophecy, preach the gospel to sinners and hasten the coming of Christ. Yeah, we so appreciate you, Ray, just for being such a great example of this and just constantly reminding us of the primacy of proclaiming the gospel.

Just have one more question for you. On the back of one of the books that you just came out with, Why Would Anyone Follow Jesus, it says, Of all the gods, gurus, and good people out there, why Jesus? Why follow some ancient carpenter turned philosopher from a podunk town in the Middle East, a man whose own people didn't believe in him for the most part? It just doesn't make any sense. I know someone very well who has said that exact same thing when I've explained the gospel to him.

It just doesn't make any sense. So in closing today, for this person I'm speaking about and for listeners today who are listening in various places and have heard you speak and just say, I hear him, but it just doesn't make any sense. What would you say? Well, go back to a man driving on the freeway and he's pulled over and someone says to him, I've got some great news for you. Someone's just paid a big fine on your behalf. And he says, well, that's just stupid. Go away from me.

This doesn't make any sense. I don't need anyone to pay a fine for me. Now get out of my face. But if I instead pull him over and say, I'm an officer of the law. You've just been clocked at going 100 miles an hour and a 50 mile an hour limit. You're going to jail. You're in big trouble unless you pay this hundred thousand dollar fine. That's the other condition the judge has said. You're going to jail or you have to pay a big fine.

You say, I haven't got any money. So, well, look, someone's going to pay the fine for you because they care about you. That payment will make sense if he understands he's violated the law. If he doesn't understand he's violated the law, the payment's foolishness. If he does, then it makes sense. And the Bible says the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing.

Why? Because they don't understand they've violated the law. You know, I like to ask non-Christians, do you know what death is? And they say, well, not really. It's the end of life. The Bible says it's wages.

And they say wages? I say, yeah, God's paying you in death for your sins. Your death will be proof that God is serious about sin.

He's deadly serious. Like a judge looks at a criminal who's not concerned that he's killed three prostitutes. He says, judge, they were the scum of the earth. I did society a favor. Judge is going to say, I'll show you how serious your crime is. You took three precious lives, so we're going to pay you in death. This is your wages. You're going to be executed. This is what you deserve.

This is what you've earned. And sin is so serious to a holy God, he's given us the death sentence. This life is a holding cell.

Big blue roof, nice lighting, good air conditioning. But we are waiting to be executed by God for our sins. The soul that sins, it shall die.

So the proof you have sinned against God will be your death. But you won't believe that until the law is opened up and you're shown that lying lips are an abomination to the Lord. And we've got to say to sinners, have you ever lied?

How many lies have you told? Like Nathan pointed at David and said, you're the man. Why have you despised the commandment of the Lord? He didn't generalize that.

He pointed his finger and said, you're the man. Like Paul in Romans chapter two. You say you shall not steal.

Do you steal? You say you shall not commit adultery. Do you commit adultery?

He was personalizing it. And that's what we've got to do with sinners. How many lies have you told? What does that make you?

It makes you a liar. Let them admit it. Don't let them cover their sins. Ever taken something lost to someone else? Ever used God's name in vain? Have you ever looked at a woman with lust and committed adultery in your heart? You know, had your sex out of marriage?

And taken through those commandments, have you always obeyed your parents and honored them implicitly? All these things will be confirmed by the work of the law written on the heart. The conscience will bear witness.

And then you just have to wait for God to do his work and grant repentance, the acknowledging of the truth. And so you can hasten up somebody's desire for a parachute by hanging them out the plane by their ankles for two or three seconds. That's all you have to do. Someone says, oh, I don't seem in need of a parachute. Parachutes are foolish. Say, come here a minute. Let me just grab your ankles. Out you go.

Pull them back in. He's going to say, give me that parachute. Because fear has done its work. Fear is your friend in that case. It's done you a favor.

It's made you want a parachute. And the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And through the fear of the Lord, men depart from evil. Without that fear, they won't flee from wrath. It's to come.

Why should they? So it's legitimate to say you violated the law. And often I'll say to someone, it's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. And I say, and I look them in the eyes, I'd rather fall on the face of the sun than fall into the hands of the living God.

So you think about what we talked about and let fear be your friend, not your enemy. Think about your secret sins that nobody knew about, but you and God and how you've stored up as wrath that's going to be revealed on the day of judgment. That's why you need a savior. That's why you need someone who can wash away your sins. And there's no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. Only Jesus.

He's the only parachute that's not full of holes. If you don't want him, you're going to perish. That's why you need Christ. And people say to me, why are you trusting in Jesus?

Because there's nobody else. No one else can save me from death. I'm like Peter, where will we go, Lord? You alone have the words of eternal life. Ray, that is just so beautifully and biblically said. Thank you for concluding our conversation today that way. We're so appreciative, Ray, of your longtime proclamation of the truth of God's Word and the gospel. We just wish all of God's best and grace to you and your family and living waters. Just so appreciate you and the way God is using you. Thank you for coming on The Christian Real View.

Thank you for having me on, David. It would be hard to find a person who is more focused on proclaiming the gospel than Ray Comfort. He is out on the streets of Southern California every week proclaiming the gospel. So why does he do that?

Well, basically, it comes down to what you love most in life. His love for God in people's souls is greater than his love for his own comfort or safety, or even being esteemed by the world. He's what the Bible calls a fool for Christ's sake. You need to go to our website,, and click on the link to Ray's ministry, Living Waters. It goes over to their YouTube channel where you can watch these witnessing encounters. They are very helpful to learn how to interact with unbelievers and what they might say and how you should respond. Over and over again, he uses the law to help someone realize that they are a sinner in danger of God's judgment.

Why believe in a Savior if you don't think you're lost and in danger of judgment? Now the Bible we were talking about today, the Evidence Study Bible, this is a hardcover in New King James Version. It is chock full of commentary and articles by Ray. And this would be a great Bible for anyone, but particularly for those of the younger generation. And we have it available in our store at

Just look for the Evidence Study Bible. Now this week commemorates the most important event in human history. What took place on this weekend, just about 2,000 years ago, is more important than any war or leader or movement or invention over human history. Because all of those come and go. But what occurred this weekend 2,000 years ago provides the answer, the solution, to every single person's biggest problem. And that is this, how can I, a sinner, be reconciled or made right to holy God and thus avoid His judgment?

That really is the question that all of us need to answer in this life. And most people conveniently dismiss a God of wrath, avoiding God's judgment. Well, God's not a God of wrath because they don't want to be accountable. But this passage in Exodus 34 verses 6 and 7 is such an important one because it's God speaking about His own character and nature. He says this to Moses when Moses is up in the mountain about to get the Ten Commandments. The Bible says, Then the Lord passed by in front of Moses and proclaimed, The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness and truth, who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin. Yet he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations. So the first part of that passage is all about God's lovingkindness. He's slow to anger. He's gracious. He's compassionate.

And those are the things we like to focus on. Those things are absolutely true about God. But we can't dismiss or discount or ignore the other side of God. He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations. That does not mean that the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations are punished for the sins of their fathers.

It's just that sin has a corrupting influence from generation to generation. So that passage describes who God really is. He's a God of love. He desires that you would be saved. And yet He's a God of wrath and justice. For those who reject His offer of being saved, He will punish justly.

And as Ray likes to do, he goes through the Ten Commandments. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. You're to remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

You're to honor your father and your mother. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not lie. You shall not covet. And that was a quick run-through of the commandments.

You can read them in Exodus chapter 20. And we've all broken these in thought or in deed many, many times. Justice for us would be eternity in hell for rebellion against this King of the universe, God. But this is why God sent His Son to live a sinless life and to offer Himself as a substitutionary sacrifice for our sins. This is why Jesus commanded, repent and believe in the gospel. The gospel being the good news about Christ coming to die for our sins and rising victoriously over the grave.

What we remember and celebrate this weekend during Easter. If you are listening today and you don't believe this, why not? The prophecies in the Old Testament about Christ's coming have been fulfilled. Just read Isaiah 53 and elsewhere. His miracles and His deeds prove that He was God. He raised people from the dead. He walked on water.

No one else has ever been able to do anything like that. The only conclusion logically is that He was who He claimed to be, the Son of God and Savior of mankind. But the only reason someone doesn't believe it is that they won't believe it.

They will not believe because they love ruling their own life more than God ruling over their life. But to that, we should say what Jesus said to Thomas, who didn't believe that Christ had risen from the dead. He said to Thomas, reach here with your finger and see my hands and reach here your hand and put it into my side and do not be unbelieving, but believing.

To which Thomas replied, my Lord and my God. We hope you can sincerely say that about Jesus Christ this Easter weekend, my Lord and my God. Thank you for joining us today on the Christian Real View. Thanks also to our Christian Real View partners and Samaritan Ministries for funding today's program.

In just a moment, there will be lots of information on how you can connect with this nonprofit radio ministry. We hope you have a memorable and joyous crucifixion and resurrection weekend. Remember, Jesus Christ is risen.

He is risen indeed. Until next time, think biblically, live accordingly and stand firm. The mission of the Christian Real View is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christians and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ. We hope today's broadcast encouraged you toward that end. To hear a replay of today's program, order a transcript or find out what must I do to be saved, go to or call toll free 1-888-646-2233. The Christian Real View is a listener-supported nonprofit radio ministry furnished by the Overcomer Foundation. To make a donation, become a Christian Real View partner, order resources, subscribe to our free newsletter or contact us, visit, call 1-888-646-2233 or write to Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. That's Box 401, Excelsior, Minnesota 55331. Thanks for listening to the Christian Real View.
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