Walking Away From God

This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Man Talk, brought to you by TAWCMM, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where they're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination, and challenging men to take their God-assigned role. Here's our hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr., a black guy and a white guy.

And we just like to thank you again for joining us here on the program. And Roy, you know, we were talking earlier and I was stumbling through some things on an article on Christian News Network and this guy has been like all over the news within the past two months and his name is Joshua Harris and he was a pastor but then he just simply walked away from the faith. He just all of a sudden decided to get up and say throw in the faith hat and quit. Yeah that that really is odd, Will.

I'm not quite sure why anyone would turn their back in totality. I understand that you go through seasons of life and you know that you have those high moments and you have those low moments but just to totally walk away really is a shock, especially given his success and his positioning early on in his career in support of the gospel. And you know he was he was pastor of Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg, Maryland, if I pronounced that correctly. But in this article, and of course he's the author of several books, one is I Kiss Dating Goodbye and he simply says that when he separated from his from his wife he said that I no longer identify as a Christian. And you know in this in this age that we're living in now of identity identity identification and redefining gender it's surprising to me that he would use some of this terminology. Yeah I mean to say I no longer identify as a Christian makes you question is he saying I'm walking away from my Christianity in totality or is he just saying I'm not sure where I'm at as it relates to my walk with Christ anymore. You know because it's not very clear I no longer identify as a Christian in his wording and I don't know if that had something to do with his separation with his wife that he's it's public knowledge and just not quite sure what the impact is but it's still very perplexing why someone would would say that after spending so many years walking with Christ. Exactly and you know it it I think it begs further question and examination because I think the word Christian has been sort of like diluted down in today's society too. You know we have all these definitions of things and I think Christian is really no different so we have we have it being defined differently and as a result depending on who you're talking to they may receive it differently than the way that you're saying Christian in the definition in which you're you're presenting it to them. Well that's a great point oftentimes in today's society when people talk about being a Christian they refer to going to church on a regular basis so therefore they identify as being a Christian but I think that's why many people in today's time have shifted to be saying using the phrase I'm a follower of Christ or Christ follower so that denotes and makes it very clear that they are following Christ it's not it's not a social box being checked by being attending a church on Sunday. Exactly and I like the term you know representative of the kingdom. There you go.

Yeah I like that term because you're a great representative by the way Will. And thank you I'll give you that ten dollars after the show is over but you know when we when we talk about someone like this walking away you know he says in his article and again I'm quoting this article was taken out of again the Christian News Network and he says he has a massive shift in regards to my faith in Jesus. Again I don't understand that yeah I just do not understand that you know we all have trials and tribulations in our life you know scripture tells us that and James speaks to in the first chapter about consider it great joy so I can't imagine what in this in an individual's life would be so much of a paradigm shift and what's happened to them or what they believe that they that they would make that statement I mean just you know massive shift in my regard faith in Jesus I mean that's just it perplexes me. You know because when a person says something like this of course we know that there's always a deeper meaning you know behind what they're trying to say but when when you talk about falling away from the faith I think you know someone might be asking the question okay if a person who has written all these many books and has pastored a large congregation mega church to be exact the and they fall away then what hope is it for me to maintain my Christianity or my faith in Jesus if indeed I had it to begin with? Well I mean key point there is do not put your eyes on man or woman and man in the context of humans because if you do they're gonna let you down so in this in this particular quote he's made about making the massive shift in regard to faith in Jesus he doesn't say he's walking away from it but it certainly it makes you wonder where he's going when you say massive shift and then in the next quote part of he said that he said that some people told him that there's a different way to practice faith and that he wants to remain open to this but Adam added I'm not there now. You know it well again you know that can go to many areas but when when I see this this different way to practice faith what practice what faith you know so if you if you were practicing Christianity and let's just say that's what he was doing he was practicing Christianity and which you shouldn't be you should be a follower of Jesus Christ and doing those things that Christ said right so that we could disciple people and so we can make disciples and go out and fulfill you know the God's commission that's right so but when he says this you know about remaining open to some type of different way to practice faith you have to ask your question what kind of faith now do you want to practice and if this faith that you call it some other religion other than Jesus Christ or are you talking about practicing the faith putting your faith in Jesus Christ and in practicing those things he said in a different way and I don't think it's the latter it's probably the former yeah and it leads itself for a lot of speculation right there's just no way to know exactly from this article where he's going to what he's going to be doing all we can do is wait and see what the next steps he takes will be but it's certainly made for a great conversation piece tonight and especially as we're talking about men and why they hate going to church why they're not involved properly in their families as we're going to get to a little bit later in the show with an article that lady wrote in in response to some of this is quite amazing to see the anger in this woman as a result of the man's behavior under the auspices of following Christ at least being a Christian will say based on the if everything holds true that she's put in her letter then it's he's had a ways to go as far as in his discipleship he may have been a convert but may not have been as discipleship mode as we talked about the past exactly you know so he says he's lived in repentance and again I'm coming back to the article and I'm quoting he said I have lived in repentance for the past several years repenting of my self-righteousness my fear-based approach to life the teaching of my books my views of women in church my approach to parenting to name a few so if we go back and we look at this and he says repenting of self-righteousness so word the books I guess my question to him would be were the books you wrote you were basing that on a self-righteous approach that you came up with or were you truly teaching those things from the Word of God that people should not operate in self-righteousness well since we just chose to speak on this on this show I have not had an opportunity to read the books and so I can't speak to that and that's a great question mm-hmm an excellent question when he talks about the self-righteous piece then you have to think he's identified that maybe more that was coming from his own his own opinions versus maybe being based biblically but I can't speak to that but that was that was certainly be what you would assume or at least go down the line of thinking based on his commentary exactly because I think a lot of what he said you know it's it's truly off base when it comes to the things that he said he taught about and now the things that he's repenting of and God is very clear in his word you know he's very clear when sin is sin right and you know we want to call sin sin and not try to make sin soften so that we can draw people into the church or draw them closer to us we have to call sin what it is we have to be bold enough to say you know this sin that you are engaged in is something that God abhors and if he does abhor it then we should also yeah and sin two points in a sin so it doesn't matter if you're committing adultery if you're stealing if you're lying or any number of things that we've all gone through and all the issues in the media today it doesn't matter if you're choosing choosing a path of sinful behavior which is out of the will of God and we know we all struggle we all we all break the law we all well in terms of God's law we all have fallen short it's just but by the grace of God and Jesus blood that we are saved through that if we've accepted into our lives so it's important as we're talking through this that we're by no means being judgmental we're just curious as to what this caused this man to turn away from the kingdom exactly because we know the truth behind what God said in reference to some of these things and so all we're doing is communicating that truth but but and by no means as you stated we are out judging anybody because we're all subject to still sin exactly you know if we don't crucify our old man every day yeah which goes back to becoming the disciple that's right we've got in order to become a disciple we've got to crucify the old man and live out a life the intense force to live out that's right because he wants to resurrect he wants to resurrect himself on a daily basis and so after we come back from the break we're going to continue to talk about this guy Joshua Harris and some of the things that he has simply turned his back on in reference to Jesus Christ stay with us for part two we'll be back with you shortly tawcmm would love to have you join their community of men for Christian Church in Kernersville 1130 North Main Street in Kernersville they have a hard start at 7 o'clock and a hard stop at 8 o'clock first time visitors eat for free join your hosts will Hardy and Roy Jones jr. a black guy and a white guy affordable chiropractic in high point as you might tell from their name affordable chiropractic even for the cash patient dr. Jeff Ricky has been caring for patients in high point for 34 years physical therapy such as ultrasound and spinal decompression for disc conditions such as herniation comprehensive care for auto accident injury patients with no out-of-pocket expense remember affordable chiropractic on Lexington Road in high point Paul three three six eight eight five one nine eight seven welcome back to man talk and we just thank everyone for listening at this point we are talking about Joshua Harris pastor of Covenant Life Church who simply decide after his divorce or separation from his wife and ultimate divorce that he said that they would remain friends and he has simply walked away from what he terms Christianity and we are we're reading an article that was written in Christian News Network on and it was published on 726 19 and so Joshua he goes on to say that in his article that I can't join you in your morning I don't view this moment negatively so he's saying I'm not looking at what I've done as a negative thing and again I think that leaves more questions than answers it does this was in response to I think quite a few of his friends said we'll be praying for you and they were saddened by his decisions and therefore he was trying to make light of it that he did not couldn't join him in the morning or the feelings they were having about his departure okay and see man the these this that Joshua Harris is going through it didn't happen overnight so we we just want to make that point that it didn't happen overnight this is something that more than likely a some type of seed was planted and it was just over a period of time because no no man wakes up Roy I mean he just don't wake up and say hey today I'm gonna separate myself from my wife because and and leave the church and go off and you know claim to be a non-christian no they don't I mean that's Satan's got that battle started long before that day that this decision was made you're exactly right well and it's I think that's what's important for all of us to recognize is that these things you need to guard your heart guard your mind to your point the seed get planted and you think well I'm okay I can process this and I can I can play around in this area whatever the area may be back to the conversation earlier about sins that's why you've got to be extremely cautious right exactly I mean Satan only needs just a little bit of a foothold and that could be in that seed plant in your mind and then all the next thing you know you're you're going down a path and a trail that you never thought you would ever be on you know and when he says he and his wife will remain friends you know and the day following their separation announcement then of course he had an interview and then he says on his views on romantic relationship and and dating have changed in which he acknowledged that he is tempted because of his very conservative upbringing which he repudiated so that again leaves a big question mark how were you tempted you know in what way were you tempted now we could say temptation is temptation in any form but again it's how you're tempted and what you submit it to in reference to that temptation right I think will bring you further down the line of exactly what led to all of what we're reading about in this particular article yeah and when in the the end of that statement that you just read will is also to just throw his faith out so even the author was just assuming he's throwing his faith out right based on the wording there yes and you know and again we're talking about the author of I kiss dating goodbye which is a very popular book I think back in the 90s or 2000 I think it may even still be reasonably popular and you know in Christians lives because they're it's all about you know dating and from what I understand and not just dating for the sake of dating being selective about who you date and that sort of thing so you know and and when you talk about his conservative upbringing I don't know exactly what what denomination he was involved with but I think denominationalism surely plays a part in one's views and you know the associated doctrine that leads one down a particular path in reference to that denomination so you know denominationalism is I think in and of itself depending on what is taught can be a dangerous thing well you know that's the heart of our mission rights breaking down the walls of racing and denomination so that we don't have to worry about those barriers between our brothers because we you and we being you and I will have talked about this many times why are there so many churches in the small town USA there would be half a dozen churches in small town USA I mean you could you could go to any small town in America and there's five six seven eight churches exactly and most of which are within a two iron or three iron of each other if not closer and I'm not a big golfer but I thought you'd appreciate the analogy so but it just makes no sense when we get wrapped up in these types of things and back to his conservative upbringing you know you never know what that means probably it was biblically based standards and principles and so you know Satan just gets back to the seed plant who knows how this happened he may realize that he never had an opportunity to date a lot of different girls and ladies and maybe that's where he decided he that's what he wants to pursue and he's walked away from his marriage and walked away from his church because he's been convinced of a lie potentially exactly exactly and in this article toward the end of it there was an area where one could blog you know and and send in comments so someone was blogging and then you know how you get people just start writing and so there was an anonymous person who wrote a lady yes yeah who wrote a response in reference to the subject of you know why she was walking away from the church right and it sounds like her husband was a major contributor to the reason she walked away he was the major country yeah I mean he was trying to burn the camel from both ends and so his wild oats and you know do all the things obviously that he was doing in past life because she she talks about in this article she said he claimed to be a Christian but he did not attend church much less pay a tithe mm-hmm and what's interesting said he did not work a single day during their 10-year marriage and which goes to slothfulness you know and it's just of course if she put up with that for 10 years that's a she must be quite a lady just to endure that having a husband who never worked a day in 10 years and from the rest of the story it sounds like there was she's had a very very tough life as a result of his laziness and to hear her describe it again we only hearing her side of this but if all this holds true mm-hmm then it certainly gives evidence to why she's she's not justification but gives evidence to why she's walking away or doing what she's the choice she's making what she's doing so and you know things like this when it happens I think again there's a lot of detail you know it that goes along with her response here right you know that we don't have privy to but she pretty much laid it out as to the reason why you know she believes that she's walking away from the church right but what what's really sad about this will and I'm sure you've already picked up on this but is that she didn't she didn't really have anyone she didn't mention that anyone was coming alongside of her mm-hmm and I think that's where we go back to the fellowship and the need for accountability with the need for a support network with men and women yeah and we've talked about men because obviously some program for me and but we also share with the fact that women needed they need a support network and accountability group that could be three or four ladies that they meet with them on a regular basis and they pursue God and Bible study and prayer and sometimes just hanging out together and talking about the things that are going rough in their life you know and that's the whole point you've got a support network there and and no we're in here does she mentioned that it's almost like she was on her own through this journey raising the children the husband was sitting off to the sidelines and doing things that shouldn't have been going on us outside of marriage much less within marriage based on biblical principles and so I think that's something we need to stress to our men out there and to any ladies that might be listening make sure you've got yourself associated with some folks that have got your back exactly you know when you fall they're there to pick you up they're there to support you they're there to pray for you they're there to provide whatever you need whether it's material things or help you get material things if you're in a really bad situation and and also for men and women I mean that goes on both sides and we really really want to encourage you to do that if you're not a part of that get you a group of folks that you can count on you know because anytime when you're talking about relationship you can't talk simply about men even though this is a men's show a man show you got to talk about women too because the relationship is a man and a woman right so so invariably we're going to be talking about women as well but the emphasis what we're doing is we're taking that emphasis of where the man should be and his role within that relationship as the as the servant to the family and to the wife exactly so all of the things that she quoted again in her response again if they hold true because again we only see one side of the story she says that he cheated on her and she was working and she paid off all of the bills and he slept with dozens of women so man if this is you and you have a struggle with sexuality then you need to come to grips to understand that there is simply a matter of time before you know these things you know they come up on you and you realize hey you know my secret has been it's been put out it well and it needs to be put out right and that's the other thing typically when these types things going on the exposure is is will end it once the light shine on the darkness then that will usually end these types of things because then the excitement goes away then reality sets in I've got to deal with a divorce or I've got to deal with making reconciling with my wife now if she'll even have me back all those sorts of things so yeah you're exactly right well it's it's one of those things that we should never get ourself in the middle of it goes back to a support network got support network you don't lose don't lose track of what's important in your life and what you've got to be doing that's following Christ walking it out as a disciple and helping to lead others to the kingdom first John chapter 1 and verse 7 walk in the light as he is in the light and that you may have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus will cleanse you from all unrighteousness men darkness is simply the absence of light so if you are in darkness you need to come to the light come to the light of Jesus Christ amen and let the light shine on you thank you for listening again to another episode of man talk radio I'm Will Hardy Roy Jones jr. and we thank you until next time as we wrap up today's show be assured that taw CMM talking and walking Christian men's ministry is building a community of men that are Christ followers with the desire to be servant leaders in their homes communities churches and work environments check out our website for upcoming events and regularly scheduled meetings drop us a note for topics that you would like to have us visit in the future thank you for joining us on man talk today visit us at www.tawcmm.com men walking the talk this is the truth Network