Good afternoon, everybody. I'm Bart Winkler. Welcome into the Winklerverse. Grant Bills beside me, Paul Limig as well. What a pleasure it is to see both of you gentlemen. Wednesday, March 25th is not a day that happened in 2025.
Wednesday, March 26th is, and that is today. And see, that's one of the tricks you got to learn in the broadcast business is to find a way to recover. Don't stop. Don't never say I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's no, you say rather rather is a big Oh, rather. Anyway, is JJ Watt taking notes, I hope?
Do you know that picture that they released? Well, I know what you're gonna say. Why? No, you go.
I mean, what am I gonna say? I thought you when my first note as JJ was showing like this text chain with Ian Eagle was that he has a cold tub branded with JJ. Okay, I did not see the text chain. I didn't see JJ's tweet on it. Okay. But I saw CBS Sports say it's I and Eagle and JJ Watt together in a booth next year. And I'll have you guys look it up.
But the picture that JJ Watt the face he is making is a face like, I know you don't like this. But I'm doing it. You're stuck with me. Are you? I know you don't want it. I know you're like, not this guy. But But here I am.
I need to what? Who's the originator of the tweet? The CBS Sports tweet that you sent? Oh, now I gotta look closer at that part of that picture. He looks like it's it's just kind of smuggy. Yeah, exactly.
Are we? Here's my big concern. Am I gonna learn something when I watch a game that JJ Watt? I know you're kidding. And you're being an ass because that is in fact, whoa.
That is in fact, the number one job requirement as smart people like me and Bukowski will tell you. Oh, yeah, lump yourself. No, go ahead. You're right. You're right.
You guys are on that island. That's not a group that I'm a part of. Unfortunately.
All right. But we're distracting you. Well, this is a distraction from what's been keeping me busy today. And that's that Marvel is slow dripping the release of the cast of Avengers doomsday, which I kind of would rather I kind of would rather not know. Kind of just rather watch the movie and be like, Oh, fuck, there's those guys.
But they're showing all these chairs. Like they're actually been doing it since 10 in the morning. I don't know how long it's supposed to go. But it's it's like the slowest Royal Rumble reveal ever. And it's, you know, it's been it's been keeping me busy. So at the end of this episode, and I'll probably cut it separate.
We're gonna give like 10 minutes of thoughts on severance. Spoiler, I mean, spoiler. Right. So dip out if you haven't seen it or don't give a shit you can leave early to I don't care as long as you sit through like one ad break, I think. That is the key. Let's be honest. I think that's fast forwarded.
I just get click is as long as it registers that click that you are there at like the 16 minute mark. Um, alright, so doc rivers, we got to start there. Got to start with doc rivers this week. First of all, the bucks, Paul, you and I were talking last week.
We basically said Janus needs to do this game needs to do this. Yep. I don't think Danes I think he's, he's not playing.
No. In the playoffs. This isn't like your typical like, well, let's see how the healing is on the ankle. You know, like the Spurs probably don't mind having to tank because now they can maybe wind up with another top five pick in addition to what they have. But in the case of Damon the box is like, we don't know, like, how do you how do you project something like that? Right. But as we talked about when the Bobby suspension happened, I think we said to each other something like the Bobby suspension isn't like the biggest deal, but it's a sign that this just ain't the year or was like, Yeah, it's probably just a sign.
If you needed yet one more sign. Here you go. So a hypothetical would be if if the bucks are the six seed and they're playing the three seeded Knicks and they drag themselves and they they work very hard. And they actually without Dame have a three one lead in this series.
Oh, here you go. And then they blow it. And do we give credit to the bucks for getting that far. So here's some of the stuff that doc rivers had said he was talking with Mark Spears at and scape.com. And they were talking about the bubble.
And they were up 30 I think at least three one and they're talking about the bubble. And Mark Spears is like, does that like, make you mad that you blew that lead? And essentially, Doc said, Look, it came out later, the team didn't want to be there. I saw that as a coach. I didn't understand it that they would rather be home than win a title. I tried to get that across to them. You know, that one that one can be on me.
Okay. And Mark Spears says how do you deal with all the criticism you receive from the media and social media for losing three one series leads four times. And he's also lost three two series leads another handful of times. I believe he's lost seven game sevens, where he had a three two lead, at least in the series. And he says, there's nothing I can do about it.
I got an eight seat up three one. That's not bad coaching. The one with the Clippers got away, but no one tells the real story. It's unfair in some ways. I don't get enough credit for getting the three wins. I get credit for losing.
I always say what if we lost a Houston and six instead of seven? No one cares. And this proved to be on the Infinity Sports Network program last night. Oh, the the one like topic that got people engaged.
People were really interested in talking about it because do you get that kind of credit? I've talked a lot with LeBron James. He gets criticized for losing finals. But he did drag really bad teams to the finals. And also, you know, sometimes he just went up against a Kevin Durant Warriors team, which how are you supposed to deal with that? It was the perfect storm of slipping him in contractually.
They went to get KD not as like a lark, but because they actually needed him to beat you. And then like the other one I was bringing up was, do you know the third guy that went to the moon for Apollo 11? It was Bud Buzz Aldrin, Neil Armstrong. And then there was a third gentleman named Michael Collins. I only know this because of that movie from like six, seven years ago. So Michael Collins went to the moon, but he never stepped foot on the moon.
Right. So did he really go to the moon? Yes, I think he went to the moon, but he never was on the moon.
I don't think any of these missions have ever been to the moon, but that's, I know that's not your point. And I don't know if you're joking, but I'm, I'm not as a hundred percent as I used to be. I'm joking. You're 50-50? Might be like 55-45. Yeah.
At the beginning of the sixties, when they're like, we're going to the moon by the end of the decade. And then they just get in under the buzzer? I think it's some pretty good storytelling. You know, some good narrative. But how do you feel about if you go, like, I've been to the Denver airport three times.
Oh, that's, I'm all in on that one. That's one conspiracy. Have you been to Denver? Well, the Denver airport conspiracy. Oh, that's not what you were getting at.
Okay. I now see your other point, but the Denver airport is fucked. But, but I've never stepped foot out of the airport. So have I been to Colorado?
Oh, Germany and have a layover in Spain and I'm at a Spanish airport. I'm going to say I've been to Spain, right? I think you can say you've been there, but like that's where it ends. That's the only thing you've done. Your feet didn't touch the earth upon which, but, and then I call her last night said, Bart, here's why you've been to Denver. Because if your plane was to crash at the airport, you would have died in Denver.
Like, let's just jump to extremes. So I think with doc it's interesting because I do think you should get credit. I mean, getting to that seventh game, it's a different story if he didn't coach as well. And if you got two wins, he's, he's getting penalized for getting another win, even though the thing is, you know, the same, he can't close out that game seven and there's something bad about that, but he's not getting credit for the big wins.
And again, I didn't run a marathon if I only went 24 instead of the 26.2. And I think what really got me on this, and we'll talk about severance more in a bit, was when I was talking about this out loud yesterday, I said, no, if you complete 96% of cold harbor, it's not, it's not completed. So I'm, I'm almost like I do think LeBron gets a little too much heat, but doc rivers agreeing with the argument I've been making.
He almost made me backtrack from the argument I've been making because he didn't complete the task at hand. It doesn't matter if you win three or two or one. It doesn't matter if you're leading three quarters and then lose the game.
You've got to complete the mission to get credit for completing the mission. And so this LeBron take I've had forever. Doc rivers agreeing with me has gotten me to disagree with my own self.
Yeah. And I think like, I was so excited at first. Cause it's like, Oh doc, yes, this is great. But then obviously it's like, people can do nothing that don't like doc rivers. They can just sit around and within a couple of days, doc will give you something that you can just absolutely tear through an attack and see this is why this guy fucking sucks. So I don't think doc is like way more harshly criticized than he should be. I just think once something is acceptable to criticize, then everyone feels like they can criticize it a little stronger.
And I think doc rivers is one of those guys. Yeah. Do you think you should get credit for the three wins? No. Okay.
Well then there's that. That's why you asked the questions. I can give you I can give you my big picture doc take very briefly. Anything to continue the conversation that I was kind of waiting for grant because he's just kind of been doing stuff. So I'm like, I'll just give you a quick answer and then let grant expound but it would be the easy thing as a sports radio host. And we've talked about this, where I think a lot of sports talk radio people, they're not necessarily interesting or thoughtful.
They just say sports things in the cadence that you're supposed to do. Like if you're a sports talk show, I got a rant about something and you know, you just like, it would be the easy thing to get my notes out and to list all of doc reverse failures and how he sucked at all of these spots and how and get really mad and bent. I'm just I'm not going to do it. Like I'm not going to let doc rivers get me on tilt while he is here.
Now, if Dame was healthy and Yanis was healthy and they looked amazing and it's like this is a title team and the reason they're not going to win a title is because doc is a moron then Okay, well then yeah, maybe I rant about it. But I'm just going to ignore him. Like he's an end table that I like I'm just I'm just gonna ignore him. And I'm not I'm not building segments on my show about yelling about doc rivers. I will not let him do that to me. I'm gonna roll my eyes and ignore him.
You know, but I think because it does. It's interesting the way you said about like the Denver thing versus the moon thing because when you do your LeBron argument. I have always resonated with that idea like, oh, that's actually a good counter thought to say well, he got to those finals is that nothing. So you'd say if the mission you kept saying like did they complete the mission. If the mission was to win the East. You know when LeBron was a cab the first time like yeah like mission accomplished right like.
But one champion. And I don't know that you should like, but if you win a division title that's not nothing, but like it but if like Andy Reid win the conference that's not nothing. It's not nothing, but like if Andy Reid coaching career ended after Philly. He would be the guy that couldn't get over the hump, he would be the guy that just he just wasn't quite good enough as a coach to make it to the Super Bowl. You read from your reference like those bills teams in the 90s. They're not thought of as like this AFC juggernaut they're thought of as this loser, like, but you know, it's doesn't his chief years now instead of the Chiefs years telling you, oh, Andy Reid figured it out and became a great coach, what it should maybe tell us. Oh, yeah, it turns out when you get Patrick Mahomes, like yeah, you will. So, so I heard this take I want to say it was Bill Simmons but I don't know for sure. And it was this idea that Shanahan is the new Andy Reid, he's going to go to a different team.
Yeah. And having overcome the fact that he just he wasn't he just wasn't naturally good as like the clutch coach guy with fourth quarters on the line and over times on the line. He needed a bunch of failures in that regard. He was great, a great coach Shanahan, but he just needed a bunch of failures needed to change jobs.
And then on the second try. Again, at first you seem to resonate now you're giggling. I mean, Andy Reid, you know, to make this comparison I think people are already. Kyle Shanahan's get as many winning seasons with the 49ers as he does losing seasons, by the by. Yeah, when, when you said that Kyle Shanahan's great coach Bart was like, like it was small but I saw it and I knew exactly what it meant. That's a fun, that's a fun take that's a fun thing to hash out like good shot Kyle Shanahan.
There's a mutual parting of ways where both sides realize that this is great, but we need to do this with other people and then it works out. Like could Eric Spulstra win a title without LeBron, the answer is no. No. Here's the flip side of that and we can you can we can do the jokey part of Spulstra. If Shanahan was a free agent. How many teams would seriously look in the mirror and say, all right, we obviously weren't planning to fire our head coach, but we have to at least take a meeting on this.
Same with Spulstra. How many kids do we need? We used to think that about Belichick though now he's coaching college kids. But the difference there is when you're having a college kid. And doing what? And doing what? Sorry Paul. When you're when you're having the conversation with Belichick, you're talking about a guy in his 70s, you're not talking about a guy who has 20 plus years of coaching career left. So I do think that's absolutely different. So I mean, in all honesty, like top your head, how many teams if Shanahan is fired tomorrow, how many teams have a meeting that same day with all the brass and say, we have to talk?
I'm going to say 25 minimum. What were you gonna say? Oh, really? Well, I don't want it to be your answer.
And even though it probably is. Yeah, Spulstra is getting what do you think about my take that Shanahan and john Lynch to trade jobs for a year? Work for the Celtics, but kind of not the same, but yeah, I think john Lynch is absolute dog shit as a GM.
Well, you're absolute dog shit, but you're gonna you're gonna find that out now. Because he's having to dump a lot of salary a lot of quality players. And now the question is, can he backfill enough that or was the depth in the cupboard so bare, and he doesn't have the skills as a GM to refill it. So we don't I think to some degree, we don't know how good john Lynch is yet. And didn't he draft most of these guys, though. Well, even Brock Purdy was Shanahan's what I'm saying. He kind of went through this period Lynch did, where he just traded three first for Trey Lance, but no big deal. No, it's not not a big I know this is one of your good talking points.
But like, it should you should keep hammering it. Grant, what I'm saying is those like, he paid Lynch never said no to not paying somebody up until pretty much now. Everyone who he brought in is like, Oh, this guy's good. They had maybe a contract holdout.
They had like an iuc situation. There are other guys that kind of like waffled. But in the end, he's like, here's a bunch of money. And he kept you know, it's like for the people who are like the cap isn't real.
Well, like the bill came due. Where's Trey Lance? Is he in Dallas still? Is he still or is he gone now?
I thought he went somewhere else. So I guess Grant I'm saying now that the now that the bill is due on the 49ers credit card, does john Lynch have the ability? Or is it going to be kind of like the Cowboys where it's a super top heavy organization?
Right, where they have several great players lamb and Parsons. Or is it just going to be, you know, by the way, there's a circulating story in the past hour. Have you seen the Dak Prescott rumor report, I guess, yeah, that old man with an internet show. Yes.
It's nothing much content. It's too much. But Bart, you're gonna hosting the show that you do. Someone is going to call you tonight and say, Bart, do you really think they're going to trade Dak Prescott?
So prepare yourself accordingly. Who's saying they're gonna skip? No, there's there's a there's it's got like a million views in the past hour. It's I don't even know who it is. bonus time with Bruce Drenman. Drenman.
Yeah. So what's the take that the Browns are trying to trade for Dak Prescott today? Dak Prescott? Dak Prescott who has a no trade clause? They had no money to they have no money to pay a quarterback.
What if they paid to though? The biggest I saw in Trey Lance was CFL Saskatchewan Roughriders and Trey Lance to their negotiating list. Yeah, I saw that. What is that? I did read that today. What does that mean?
I guess it's somebody that they could talk to. What becomes of the CFL if we annex Canada? You know, I was thinking about that.
No, you weren't. I've been thinking I my wife told me the other day she goes, Bart, if you ask me if the World Cup is still going to happen one more fucking time. He actually probably has thought about this, Paul, because it has political implications, not because it's sports relevant at all.
So I am a little late on the segue here. But what I was going to say was, do you know who wishes they had 25% off every single free agent that they could acquire? Because they're running out of money is John Lynch. And if you want 25% off, you can go to HappyPlaceHemp.com and you will be able to relieve the pain if you are a San Francisco fan or maybe one of our great teams.
The teams are great, but they always lose. And so immediately I rushed to the cabinet and find my my Delta friends. HappyPlaceHemp.com. The promo code is Bart. They've got gummies. They've got balms and tinctures and the CBD oils and all that stuff is great. The gummies are very popular, obviously.
That is a big draw. And you can get those gummies delivered to your house safely and securely. And they'll knock off the shipping again with the promo code Bart. Also, the seltzers have become a big thing, a big thing just in the whole industry, with more bars having this stuff, with people enjoying the THC in that way. And HappyPlaceHemp is definitely on the cutting edge of that. So check them out.
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B-A-R-T at checkout for 25% off every single order, no matter how many times you order from there. All right. Paulie Walnuts, anything else for us before we get into Severance, which you've been chomping at the bit to talk eight minutes about for the last week? He's wanted to hash it out in a long form discussion. Yeah, it's got to be a long form discussion. It can't just be. But it's like, oh yeah, let me give you my text thoughts. Like, no, we do this together. This is more fun. No, let me ask you this one because we'll save Severance time.
Severance is still coming for those interested. This is a Bucks question. I saw it listed about basically the past decade of something that has stopped the Bucks, obviously aside from their actual championship year, of something devastating that for all intents and purposes ruined their playoff. And I want to know the one that is the most in hindsight.
How do I want to say this? Either like detrimental or the one that you think was the one that hurts the most. How about that? Let's go with the one that hurts the most as a Bucks fan. I think some of these are starting a long time ago, but 2014 Jabari ACL, 2017, the other Jabari ACL.
Here's the ones that get really challenging. 2019, you're one shot away from being up 3-0 in the Eastern Conference Finals. 2020, you're like 52 and 12 and then COVID. Okay, that was tough. 2022.
You could ask me on a show, what's the one thing that could stop the Bucks? And I said coronavirus. Oh my gosh. Dude, I was captain COVID, remember? I do.
Now they want us to wear a mask for our mask. 2022, Middleton hurt. 2023, Giannis hurt. 2024, Giannis hurt.
2025, probably no dame. The one that hurts the most as a Bucks fan out of this just shit list that accompanies their one title, which again, not to diminish the one. But the one that hurts the most is the 2019 being up 2-0, almost 3-0 in the Eastern Conference Finals.
Or the 2019 one hurts the most among those. I mean, there's a revisionist history where the Bucks could win that, win 2020, win 2021. I know. I mean, they could have won three chips in a row. Yeah. And I think we're lucky that they've got, I think we're lucky that they've got one with everything that's happened.
Probably. Specifically the injuries. I've got a group chat with some buddies and one of the guys was like, oh, fuck dames out. And within 45 minutes, they were trying to figure out the best trade package they could get for Giannis. I think, honestly, I think I'm with, like, I'm with, I mean, I want Giannis to stay here forever if he wants to. We had this conversation when Luka was traded, but I actually think that's a perfectly fine. Well, if he's gonna, like, if he's gonna go someday, if he's not gonna finish here, shouldn't we be in control of that?
We as in the Bucks? Yeah. Well, yes, but I mean, you want it to be like, whatever the most opposite of what the Luka situation was, as you humanly can. You want it to be something where he's a buck for life, even if he spends the last eight years elsewhere. You know what I mean? You want to trade him for someone good, though.
That's the difference between Luka, ideally. Yeah. Also, if we're getting a package of picks, a horse can go to because I don't want him making a single one of those picks. And I don't want 2031 picks like I want tomorrow's pick. Yeah, right. Especially if I want Cooper flag. That would be great.
So that's where people are. I think that retroactively, because they won one, it helps. Did I tell you this analogy I got from a buddy? He goes, Bart, I realized that Damian Lillard is Angels Albert Pujols.
I think you shared this with us or with me at least in a chat. Does that make Giannis Mike Trout? But at least they won one.
Right. So Giannis is going on a very Roger Z like, oh, there's many chances that they should have had. Yeah, I think, you know, 2019 hurts. Middleton getting hurt the very next year.
Knocked. And then, you know, they fire bud, you know, because the take I've always had about the box is they keep making massive decisions as if the team has failed and they need to change something about the team. But they don't know if the team has failed because the team hasn't stayed healthy enough to show if they were going to fail or not.
And they're flukey injuries. You know, you can't imagine Damian Lillard is going to have deep vein thrombosis at this point in the season. And I think what bothers me, so the answer to your question is because I think what bothers me the most about all this retroactively in hindsight, which is 2010 for me, is that Damian Lillard was involved in a trade for Drew Holliday. And then the Celtics won the championship right away because I don't think the practice of that was terrible, right? There was I mean, we watched Drew Holliday not give them like if they would have had Dame instead of Drew when they needed that with Middleton being hurt that could have gone differently.
So they clearly thought they had a need. It's just that Drew ended up finding his way to Boston where he didn't have to be the fourth. You know, he's the fourth guy. And revisionist history, sometimes revisionist history has people thinking that he was traded directly to Boston. I mean, you could have been had some foresight and thought, oh, maybe they'll, you know, but we didn't trade him. We didn't give him to Boston.
Then again, this group chat, I mean, one of the guys goes, dude, that was crazy. We traded for Dame and then we traded Drew. And I'm like, how the fuck do you get that wrong? What the fuck? What the fuck, man?
So I think I think the Drew Holliday thing and then also hiring Adrian Griffin. That was a fucking mistake. I mean, there are moments I forget that that happened. Oh, yeah, me too. Like it's like, oh, like when you just said it, my first reaction was not. Oh, it wasn't like.
Right. When Adrian Griffin it was like, oh, that's right. Adrian Griffin was the coach for a while.
Grant. I think the year after the championship hurts the most because I think that team, unlike the others, was built for it. Giannis was playing at an unbelievable level. I thought they were riding the confidence and they had the edge of the year that they had just done it. Whereas in some of these other years they've gone down, they look a little shell shocked. They get this they get this aura about them or like, fuck, it's happening again. We're going to lose to the heat again. We're going to get you know what I mean?
It's the bubble all over again. The year after the one year after they won the title, that team was legit. And they took a really good Celtics team who ultimately won the East, you know, to seven games. And if not for Jason Tatum pulling 40 out of his ass, they would have some of these other years they were banged up. So like two years ago, they lose to the heat.
Round one is one seed. Now Giannis was hurt. OK, but if you're a championship level team, you don't lose in five multiple times on your own floor to an eight seed. I mean, I don't care that Giannis missed a little time.
Like if you lost in seven in a war. Sure. Right. But some of these years I like against the Raptors. They were close, but I still think they were they were far like I still don't think they were a championship level team. The year they won it, they were championship level and the year directly after. Those are the two years that I think they were the perfect prime years.
They won one and they came up short another, I think, in part because of a Chris Middleton injury. So that's what sticks with me is is that you're mostly see my. It's interesting you say that the top two I was debating between as the one to suggest in the question was twenty nineteen when, you know, Grant. I was doing a show with this guy named Bill Michaels, who I think you might you might know.
Better call Paul. But what I remember is I remember articulating was like I was going to all these games and it came to a point where we start talking about Bucks in the middle of the Packers segment. And what I remember about it is it was like I was saying jinxing. Some might say talking about how like it's hard to believe as a Bucks fan that I've lived my whole life with a dog shit franchise, you know, being born in the mid 80s. And now they're like cruising to the finals. I remember saying something really close to that.
And then, of course, kicking myself because then I'm at game, whatever it was. And you just kind of start to feel, oh, shit, like this is a series. Oh, no, like this is slipping away. Oh, my God.
They're going to lose this. Like so that was my first one. Just some partially of the emotional attachment. But number two was they were dominant in twenty twenty. There's been plenty of teams that are and I don't take it the way that there's been plenty of teams that are dominant in the regular season. And then the complexion of things change when you get a game series, though. But they had just come off of in twenty twenty. They had just come off of the terrible Raptors comeback series.
So then the logic for me was like that sucked. But they learn from it. Right. You learn from this situation, you grow from it, and now you're just cruising through the regular season.
You're great. So I don't know. They all know. Two thousand and one was worse than any of those. What I love how even national pundits will randomly in passing in conversation, be like, yeah. And the league was in the bag for Philly that year. It's not just Milwaukee people who say it. You know what I mean?
Two thousand and one or two thousand and one. Yeah. That was worse than any of these. Was that the Iverson? Yeah. Series. Right. OK. Yeah. And then Eric Snow kicked the shit out of us.
Eric Snow. I remember it well. That's all I got. Yeah.
All I would say is, like, I think if we do this topic and if we do this topic and I know. Right. It took me a road. And then I remember Eric Snow.
Grant, don't be a dick. Sorry. For a while, I didn't know if you remembered the year two thousand and one. When you said it, I thought you said my brain interpreted twenty twenty one. And I was like, oh, you're there. So I was like, the year they won the title. And then I realized I thought you were doing a bit where you like twenty twenty one. Sometimes I say thousand and one. So that was my hang up.
Don't remember I was going next. But yeah, I want to say one thing that I what may I real quick if I think we do this in five years. If this damn situation, let's say he's out for the rest of the year, playoffs included, and the Bucks lose in five or six in the first round. And that leads to the end of the era.
Like, let's say, Bart, to your text, your text chain friend point. If this blood clot situation could, in theory, spell an early playoff exit, could that in theory have the Bucks say, you know what? It's time could have Giannis say, you know what?
It's time, right? Then this one might be the worst in hindsight, just because it would be like the last chapter. Yeah, we're far away from that, but it it's not like they were going to win. It's not like if if what you're saying is true, it's the equivalent of being smothered with a pillow in hospice care. It's like, OK, yeah, like I get it from his perspective, like it's him and no one else. And Doc is their fucking coach. Like it'd be one thing if they had like this guy. I mean, we're we're doing all we can.
He's getting me in the best possible position. But it's it's Doc who's doing interviews about blowing through on leads. I'm not going to get mad about that. I want to say real quick, it does not it does not feel to me like the Brewers have an opening day tomorrow.
It does not at all, either. I heard Grant, you might have said something in our group chat like on Monday about if we were going to talk on Wednesday, if we're going to talk on Thursday, and you said not Thursday because of Brewers opening day. And I said and I thought, like, oh, wait, that's not April yet was my was my first thought. It's like, oh, my God, it's that's right.
March 27th. Like, that's not right. So it didn't it took me until three days before opening day to even realize that. And now it's here. And I'm like, not ready. I'm excited. I'm going to the home opener on Monday. First time ever that I will be in attendance for that. So I'm waiting to see if I get a credential as a fan. I'm going to the bunch of coworkers. So as I tell our sports director and it pisses him off to no end, I'll be covering the game from a fan perspective. There you go.
It's that shit. All right. We want to talk about severance a little bit. You do. Yep. Season two finished a week ago. I don't know that it packed the same punch as season one. I think the finale specifically.
No, the season. I think we were the four of them working in that room. We didn't get a lot of that, which naturally that's going to happen. I mean, I watch Abbott Elementary.
We just were catching up the other night and they're like not in the schools. But that's what happens when you expand the characters and expand the world. You can have those episodes where they're outside a little bit. I mean, I still think severance is a great show. I think season one was better than season two.
What are your thoughts? I didn't know if you were mocking me at first, because when we talked about severance two weeks ago, Grant gave me a really hard time because I said the thing I'm not liking so far is that I want to watch the four of them in their cubicle area. And Grant's like, you know, the office, you can go watch the office if you really need to see whatever. And I was like, OK, but you did. But because I was like that made me feel like, OK, maybe that's kind of a wild take. But now, Bart, I thought you were at first going to mock me for saying that. But it's like, no, that must be an independent thought that you also have, which is like they explored so much space outside of Lumen headquarters and outside of their four person cubicle area that I'm actually relieved to hear you give that level of critique, because that's what I wanted to see more of. The other thing I wanted to see more of.
You know what? Let's talk about this right here. I'm going to give you an action on this.
And I'm probably going to be a little bit more negative than the two of you. I'll say similar things to Bart. Great show.
Love it. I'll say something that Grant's going to say. It's literally the show I've been waiting my entire life for. Is it a top one, two, three show for you of all time? Well, I'm still, even though it ended weird, I still love Lost as a whole. I mean, I was like 24.
I made my personality. I'm not going to put 24 out of the top five. Like Breaking Bad and that shit was good.
But I don't know that I was emotionally like like I like Daredevil better than I like Breaking Bad. You know. Wow. OK. Interesting. So here's how I thought.
And this is something I was talking with a different buddy about. I struggled with the pacing. I struggled with some of like the back story episode that could have been condensed a lot. So here's how I'll ask the question. Gemma one was perfect.
Sure. But I think the one was not the Cobell one. And I kind of read an article the other day that talked about that one.
The Cobell one was like the lowest rated by a mile. But I think that one came right after. That was like the episode of Stranger Things when Eleven was out running around with this group of people that we never heard from again. Remember that one?
I do remember that one. If Severance season two was only 30 percent of the length and the other 70 percent was cut. It would have been a much better season. You could have cut 70 percent of season two and improve the quality.
No, I don't know that you can say it. See, I think the problem was for some reason we kept building towards the finale as if it was the finale. This was a season finale. There's more Severance to come.
But for some reason, we're like, we need all these questions answered. And I don't think now when Grant made me text Peter Bukowski about this earlier today. I did not make you text him. That's not what happened. That's not what went down.
What I had said was problems with Severance season two included being too cute, confusing us if the Oort Bowl was real or not. Like, was that real? Were they in a simulation? Because they were just there and it was exciting at first.
And you're like, OK, I need some explanation. And then I think later Devin was like, do you know there's a retreat? And we're like, oh, OK. Like, did they get in a van? Did they agree to do this?
How did they get there? The Cobell episode being standalone, all the Cobell stuff is fine. If you're like interjecting it with another, like it just couldn't be the whole thing. Right.
The Gemma thing could. The Cobell thing, no. A lack of the four together and then no mention of Petey ever. Like, yeah, you just say his fucking name, at least.
Hmm. Say the name Petey. You watch you start over in season one. You're like, holy fuck, this Petey guy's like the basis of these four episodes. He must be a very important character.
And he's just dead in a gas station. Yeah. But I mean, again, I liked it. So I think the Audis knew Petey. None of them knew Petey, but your central character, like Mar, even when she was like doing his brain. She's not like they like just wouldn't.
They would just say the name Petey. I don't know if Mark is talking to Devin about Petey. It's a bizarre critique, just in my opinion.
I disagree. Now, I think the sake the segment when Mark was talking to Mark. Mark.
Mark. I think Mark doing the recorder thing with that was some of the finest television I have ever seen. I was just blown away. Do you guys watch the behind the episode thing after the episode? I didn't until the finale. I'm going to go back and watch them, but I always want to just like, okay, let me pause there.
But yeah, I did after the season finale. It's just something that all of the creators were like, we've been waiting to do this since like the beginning or do something like this. Wait, what?
Like Mark talking to himself in one way or another. Oh, right, right, right, right. The goats kind of have a lost polar bear feel where it's like, it wasn't really that big of a deal. Yeah. They're just breeding goats to kill them.
Apparently, they're just sacrifices. Because I saw one theory that Rickon is a goat. I saw this one too. Yeah.
By the way, where is he? I'm good with less Rickon. I saw a tweet where it's like the Rickon thing is funny because Devin just also happens to live with a character from I think you should leave, and that's just a part of the show and I'm like, yeah, that does kind of pretty nicely.
Here's my other this is like the stupidest critique. There's no way those two click those two characters would not be married. Mm hmm.
That's nonsense. She would not use more to Gemma. She would not be into Rickon like that doesn't make sense for her.
Right? I don't know, you see a lot of like you're waiting you see a lot of girls, a lot of girls that I see in high school that at the time I thought, man, they would never go for a guy like me. The guys they married, I'm objectively better looking there.
And I'm just like, what in the fuck was I worried about? I was more saying that the emotional compatibility of the two but I saw a plot that the whole or the whole plot of severance would change if they had just one more security guard on the severed floor. But then I saw that milchick like wants a lot like they want this to happen. Like there's got to be they they want them to explore.
They milchick never really punishes anybody. You know, he's like, I think the milchick thing definitely got more interesting him with that animatronic here was really good. The band came. So are they severed or are they when they can just come down?
No, it sounded like they were severed. Because they were they were. Yeah, they like that's their job. So they come to work practice band and then go leave that. Yeah.
I can get behind that. There's just a lot of them. It would make a little more sense if Lumen just had a band. They were I thought the house band. I thought the funniest part is how they were not deterred at all from what was happening around and they're just still. It's the it's probably the only thing they've ever known. Yeah, they were brought into this world to play the fucking drum and the trumpet and they're like, well, this is why we're here. I think I think if I would have watched the the Gemma episode and the finale, I could have had the main gist of.
That's what I'm not saying is the point. But what about so many people in? We haven't mentioned Irving. The Dylan scenes were, I mean, heartbreaking Irving.
Who is he talking to on the phone and what's Bert's deal? Still a lot of good questions there. I think what's interesting to note is where we're where we're leaving off with season two is the innies are running around. How the fuck? Like, are they like so they're how are they going to be? Like, where are Mark and Hallie going to go that they're going to like be happy? They killed a guy. They killed a guy in the building.
Let's just go hang out. You did not mean to. How are they going to go from out? Like, how are the outies ever going to want to be innies and how are the innies ever going to want to be outies?
There's going to be a real battle there. The last thing that Audi Mark remembers is kissing Gemma. Mm hmm. Oh, so right now, the last thing in Audi Mark's life is kissing Gemma. Gemma doesn't know that Mark is severed. Mm hmm. Does she know that that she thinks that's Mark choosing Heli?
No. At one point, at one point they told her your your your husband left and found another woman. They told her that. I think that I think this is an interesting question that I don't know is conclusive, but I thought I read that the actress who plays Gemma is under the impression that her character thinks Mark is severed and understands that there's two marks.
I don't know about that. That's the actress's interpretation of that doesn't mean it's right. Sounds like they sound like they don't tell. So by who and what is Miss Wong? What is the deal here?
What's our understanding? Why is she there? And why were those people in the first episode and then just never there again? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Maybe from maybe a little bit. Maybe for an episode? Yeah. You know, I've been really fun as if it like I don't know why. Why couldn't have.
Why could it not have just been maybe Fumke? That's the kind of crossover I'm looking for. Yeah. She's disenchanted with her life with the Bluth company.
She gets severed. But again, we liked it. We liked it. It's very interesting. I think much like Grant. Grant's like, it'd be better if there were no podcasts talking about it. It's a good thing. But here we are.
Here's the thing. And I watched it not live, but very close to live because Bart put me on it. And there are so many of us in the world who watched season one and just sat with it peacefully for three years. That's a cool show. Man, when season two comes out, whenever that is, I can't wait. It'll be it'll be cool.
I can't wait to see what happens. And then all these people and I don't blame them binge it right before it comes out. And they start shitting their pants a month into the season because they're like, we haven't figured anything. It's like, yeah, some of us just hung out and lived our lives for three years. And we're like, that's a cool show. Our favorite band. Our favorite band got very popular. And that's it's not even like it's my favorite band. It's just a band that I say you enjoyed that you enjoyed quietly. And then everyone's like, this is the best band. But this new song is not living up to my standards that I just set in the past three weeks. So take it this way, because we talked about this a week or two ago, and I told you, like, sometimes you just got to surrender yourself to the creator of whatever you're enjoying. Like, do you trust and think that they are good?
Then just try to get on the ride that they're leading. OK, even if you think the show is going too slow and it farted around too much with character development and it like, but weren't they awesome at it? Like the visuals and the vibe, like Bikowski is like, oh, all your generation wants is vibe so you can post memes on the Internet.
It's like, OK, it's not my fault that everyone's a meme. But like, doesn't this show look and sound unlike anything you've really ever seen before? You know what I mean? Like, even if they're just creating a theme song that's good since inception.
I know that's what I'm saying. Game of Thrones is a better theme song. I didn't watch that. It's a great theme song. What's your favorite television theme song?
What's the best or intro? Oh, maybe I hear the blues are calling to Sally and scrambled eggs. What is that? Frasier. Oh, I didn't watch Frasier.
I don't know what to do with my salad and scrambled eggs. Oh, by the way, The Conners is back for its six episode finale tonight. Yeah, that's a good one, though.
I was thinking home improvement. I had a I had a buddy who told me initially he softened his stance on this, but he said, are you caught up? And I said, yeah. He said any mark is an asshole. So let me ask you this.
Any mark is an asshole. Mm hmm. Or who are you rooting for? In your own. I don't know.
I don't I don't believe the needs to be real people with lives that matter. Okay. Howdy. Mark seems more like howdy.
Mark lied. He's like, I started this reintegration for you. Yeah.
And then he hung up the video and he's like. Mm hmm. Devon.
He's not fucking doing it. Mark. Oh, don't I really I. Her voice is really tough. It's I don't I don't think I like her at all. I love every choice she makes in the show. Just an insane woman. There's a lot going on in her brain, and that's reflected in the choices that she makes as an actress.
Mm hmm. They're good choices, an actress, but it's hard to like. You're supposed to be conflicted about her.
You're not sure if you can trust her, but you don't really have any choice. That's the whole point of the thing. Helly. Howdy. Howdy's dad has the villainous voice ever.
I wish you would take them. Sounds like no sounds like notebook. I want to find I want to find. I just want that guy, that actor to play a hero in something just for the absolute like. He's an Avengers doomsday is the new Captain America.
They just announced it five minutes ago. How do we feel? Any mark? Is this by the way? This is self-preservation. Does Mr. Egan want to kill out? Helly and keep any heli? Can you do that?
It's kind of what I kind of what it sounded like. But then what if any heli is like, all right, fine, I'll do it. But you need to keep any mark to.
You know, I mean, like, how are they going to get out of there? I need to know if you think that any mark is a an a-hole. I don't think any mark is an asshole at all. Any mark is. I mean, these guys were born.
Did. You know what I realized, too, is I have an any. Belly buttons. No, there's this version of me when I get blackout drunk. That is a completely different personality than me.
He's like more angry and just more like he's just like more angry. Which is I now look at my blackout drunk phases. That's my any I'm not to be held accountable for what my any tweets. You mean one day I almost got fired because my any was tweeting.
That's not fair. I have to wait. You know, many mornings I woke up and looked at Twitter and was like. What the fuck did my any tweet last night on my account? So on Friday night, you were texting us what I thought was during your show. And then after a few texts, I didn't know that you were not on that night this past Friday night.
And I got the next day that there weren't podcasts. And I was like, OK, that makes a lot more sense now because he wasn't working, because that was any that was any Bart texting us. What was I talking about on Friday night?
I don't know. But you could just tell it wasn't like you were doing this on the mid air, on air, mid breaks or anything. It was, you know, it was it was drinky Bart. I don't remember what it was, but I just knew the vibe was not OK.
He's talking to people right now across the airwaves. Yeah, because. Oh, I remember. Well, you probably don't want to. I can't.
I can't. But that was any Bart. OK, that's what I thought. I would agree. I would agree with what I sent you. Right. But any Bart would be the one to say it. Yeah, I got it. Tim Boyle is a titan. How about that? That does change things for Cam Ward. Mm hmm.
Or anything else you want to say about severance? No. OK, that's my new thing.
I'm just going to give you why he asks the questions. I mean, it was it was a it was a binary. It was a what's that? It wasn't a leading.
What's that called? Because I tried to do it with my kid now. I don't try to ask him yes or no questions. Right. You want to give an open ended. Thank you. Did we just say the same thing at the same time, Grant?
Yeah, I think we did. Open ended questions. All right. Well, thank you for stopping into the Winklerverse. If you've only watched the severance part of this, like there's nothing else I can direct you to.
You can go watch. We talk about Wisconsin sports. I'm a nationally syndicated radio talk show host.
No one seems to give a fuck about me. I mean, I like I was in the cab in Chicago and the score was on. Should I have been like, you know, I'm on the station three hours a night. Then I was talking to Rami because I did a hit to end his score show. And I'm like, Rami, I'm on the air. I'm like, I'm on the station three hours a night.
That'll be like at remotes and shit. And he's like, let's not go that far. It's not overly dissimilar from when on the Packers beat. I'd be in a random conversation and someone would say, I'm just really not like this year's team is. And I'd be like, I think, OK, like they would talk to me as if they had like authoritative information. I think. OK. You know, just.
Cool theory, bro. I'm always looking for that credit that I don't even want. I think I text that to Carlos today.
Because I was bitching about Adam Schein. You ever seen Bojack Horseman, Bart? No, I watched Bojack. I think you're very similar to Bojack in some respects.
That's actually that's interesting. I said, I'm not looking for a bigger platform. I just don't like losers having more than me.
That's fair, right? Yeah. All right. Gentlemen, thank you so much. Bye dudes. And we'll talk about it. Thanks for stopping into the Winklerverse.
