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Now, on with the show. This is the Rich Eisen Show. What was that? The Rich Eisen Show. With guest host, Tom Pellisero.
Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Today's guests. Senior NBA writer for ESPN, Vincent Goodwell. NFL Network Insider, Mike Garifolo. Your phone calls, latest news, and more.
And now, sitting in for Rich, it's Tom Pellisero. Welcome to a Rich Eisenless edition of the Rich Eisen Show. Tom Pellicero, pleased to be with you right now from Los Angeles. Please be back. In studio.
With my pals right here, my guys, GJ Jefferson. I assume we can get Rich the video, right? He's on the video. Oh, yeah, we're gonna tag him. We'll tag him in it.
Tag him in it. Maybe texted to him just to make clear. Yeah, we're still wasting time on his show, even when he's not here. Mike Del Tufo with us as well. Tommy P.
A Rarity. And Chris Brockman, who made it. What time did you get in, Brockman? I think my head hit pillow at 2:30 this morning. Your last text yesterday was, hey, weather event.
Weather event. It's not looking good for my connection. I woke up, realized we hadn't heard from you. Either you were dead on the floor of the airport in Jacksonville, or you were actually going to make it into Shawnee. Yeah, I realized when I woke up this morning and saw that from you, I had not given an update.
I'm like, oh, they're probably still hanging on, wondering if I'm going to be there. Today. I mean, not that much.
Okay, great. You are a replaceable piece. But understood. I would say, unlike the Pistons, you showed up. And I think that's really what's important.
That is what's important. Also, no one is happier today, TJ, than Mary Brockman. No one loves Tom like my mom loves Tom. And the fact that she gets three hours of you today. Gosh, she's got to be excited.
Your mom's excited she gets three hours of me today? Technically, six if you want to be.
Well, that came out wrong. Every time you say it, it gets 10% creepy. She's very excited. I'm surprised I'm actually shocked. No, there it is, right there.
My mom literally just texted me. Hi, Tom. Excited. What's my mom? Great to see you.
Every time you're here. Biggest fan. Every time. I love it. We'll talk to Vince Goodwill more about what happened yesterday to the Pistons.
What didn't happen? Game one tonight, Spurs Thunder, Western Conference Finals. We'll get into all that with Vince. But you know who else showed up? Today we have Video and photographic proof.
No way. Aaron Rodgers is in Pittsburgh. And we know because... Our friends at ESPN, cameraman, hiding out in the bushes. That's not Bigfoot.
It's not Nessie. That's Aaron Rodgers with his wired headphones. Here he is walking through the parking lot. It's even blurry enough. That I feel like we're really getting a taste of something we weren't supposed to see.
He's practicing Aron right now. As we speak, we know he's in Pittsburgh. Aaron Rodgers. Is on the practice field. Hey, listen.
Here, Coach. I have seen months' worth, but particularly in the last 48 hours, the social media posts. the memes, the wise cracks, the text from Brockman. Everybody talking about the This is a joke. Oh, more mediocrity in Pittsburgh.
I will say this, and you guys know, I do this for a living. An NFL insider. I'm just here to tell you the objective. I would never say that to Cam Hayward's face, though, TJ. I will say this.
I don't think this is. A crazy idea. I think this has the potential. to set up as a very fun And potentially Very relevant season. In Pittsburgh.
You see the tweet right there? From me breaking that news Saturday night. Quick backstory on that. That's from the parking lot of the restaurant where I was going out for an early 14th wedding anniversary dinner with my wife. Lovely.
Congratulations. Who's a total stud? I said, Hey, I think Aaron Rodgers might be signing. Can you drive to the restaurant? She parallel parked that thing in a spot where nobody should have been able to.
And then right there, I pop out. She's going, the table's ready. I'm like, one second. Got to hit. Blasted that.
Then proceeded to get seven consecutive phone calls as we're sitting there and I'm trying to order a drink. Oh, goodness. Until eventually the phone rang and she said, If you answer one more call, I am leaving. Which again, love her. Uh wedding wedding anniversary is tomorrow.
I will be here with you, idiots.
So this was our celebration in advance, and I spent a good chunk of it. On Aaron Rodgers.
So that's news. Sarah told you 14 won't become 15 if you take another eye. She looked me dead in the eye. It was like the first couple she was living with, about the seventh call, she just looked at me and she goes, just so you know, if you answer another one, I am leaving. And right then, I got a phone call from a head coach, and she goes, That's fine, you can call him later.
And I texted. Fair is fair. I think I hit the limit. Six and a half was the over. Call number seven was where we went too far.
It's a one-year deal.
Okay. $22 million guaranteed. He can earn up to $25 million with incentives. It was never about money. Said that repeatedly.
It wasn't about the contract, all the speculation of is he trying to get more money? No. Guys made almost $400 million in his career. It was never about money. It was about Aaron going through the process.
And deciding Did he actually want to do this? Does he feel at 42 years old? He turns 43 in December. that he had enough left to give, That he could come back. Give himself and the Steelers.
A chance. To not just win, but win big. And to make this about something bigger than just Aaron Rodgers coming out. And play one more season. This was not.
A Conspiracy theory, there wasn't a handshake agreement months ago. If there was, We would not have needed the UFA tender to be applied to Rogers a couple of weeks ago, protecting. For the possibility that they might need to get a compensatory pick if he signed somewhere else. The guy was a free agent. You don't do that if, hey, we already got this locked in.
They did not 100% know. They thought. Because of all the conversations. Because if he was going to play anywhere, it was going to be in Pittsburgh. They thought he was coming back, but they didn't know.
Until they finally get the call on Saturday. But The reason I kept saying May 18th on this show and elsewhere over and over again was. That's when Mike McCarthy really wanted Aaron Rodgers in. That's what Aaron Rodgers wanted to be in. If he was going to do this.
Yeah, phase one, phase two. That's great for Will Howard, Drew Aller now, Mason Rudolph. But. You want Aaron out there. If he's going to do it.
For the actual on-field practice portions of the spring, because he knows this offense better than anybody. From 13 years with Mike McCarthy. From all their history together, but his teammates don't. And if you're trying to get a jumpstart on the rhythm and timing and tempo and building the things that make an NFL offense go, you need that. Time on task.
So he shows up. He's on the field for the first OTA today. I can't help. But think that this is a little bit like 2007 in Green Bay. Brett Favre at that point was 37 years old.
He had spent his offseasons for years in Mississippi. They were like six years into the willy or won't he play dance. Brett never, Brett probably didn't know what OTA stood for. And I'm not even joking. For a guy who has admitted he didn't know what a nickel defense was until several years in his career.
He probably had no clue. But Mike McCarthy was in his second year as the head coach. Talked bread into hey. If we're going to make this thing go, if you want to get the most out of yourself, I got to get you here. And I believe Brett showed up for like 9 to 12 OTAs that spring.
He put the time on task. That year, with the youngest roster in the NFL, but a 37-year-old quarterback. who had frankly showed signs of decline for several years. Came out was the MVP runner-up. Went to the NFC Championship game.
And is His 37-year-old body freezing up and throwing a bad interception to Corey Webster at overtime away from us having a Packers Patriots Super Bowl. instead of Eli Tom Brady Part One. That's how close they came. I think I would have liked that better, DJ. Because Mike McCarthy.
Knows how to build a culture. He knows how to build. An offense. And This isn't Mike McCarthy just going blindly into, I'm just going to. Trust that Brett Favre, or excuse me, that Aaron Rodgers now is what he was in 2018, the last time they worked together.
I guarantee you Mike dug into all the tape. Knows exactly what Aaron is. He's not the same. His legs are not the same. The way he moves, his ability to get inside, outside the pocket, extend plays like he has his entire career.
That's not. The way it was before. Aaron's got to play a different mental game now because he can't extend plays. Because the last time we really saw him truly try to extend plays the way that he used to. He lasted four snaps in 2023 with the Jets and went down when he got hit twice in the pocket and tore his Achilles, and that was it.
Aaron hasn't had a great season. Since 2021. which was the same year That Aaron went to war with the Packers in the offseason. And Said he might retire, said he wanted to play elsewhere. They went back and forth for like four and a half months before Aaron finally showed up in July and held what is still one of the most memorable press conferences that I have ever been at.
Aaron at that point was 37. The same age that Brett Favre was the first time that he retired. I was at that press conference in Lambeau Field in March of 2008. I was at Aaron's press conference in July of 2021, and something that Aaron said. amidst a lot of other stuff that day.
was that he felt There had not been in the Packers' organization enough credence given to the idea that players later in their career, maybe they're not what they were. They're not worth the money they do on their contracts, but that there's something to be said. For a player in his last run. No, and he might have one last shot at it. The motivation that comes from that.
The way that teammates feed off of that. The leadership. You get? From players in that position, he cited guys like Jordy Nelson and Charles Woodson, players who wanted to come back, and the Packers either didn't make him an offer. or just it wasn't the type of offer that they were going to be willing to take.
And Aaron wanted to make very clear. There is something to. The mindset The motivation of high-level pro athletes who may be past their prime. may not be what they were. But coming out and feeling like in that environment, in the right situation, They can ring that last bit.
out of their bodies. Aaron has put that to the test. Back in 2021, he also basically pushed the Packers to trade a fifth-round pick for Randall Cobb. Probably wasn't worth it. Bringing in various guys to the Jets.
You know, pushing for Adam Thielen to come in last year with the Steelers. Thielen had a little something left. Again, you got the best version of him down the stretch of that season. It doesn't always work. But Aaron is now that guy.
At 42, going on 43 years old. And if you think about the evolution of Aaron Rodgers, I've covered him since 07 when he was the backup to Brett. that year. when they made the NFC Championship game run. Which also, by the way, Brett, the most durable quarterback in NFL history, got knocked out of a game in Dallas in November.
Aaron went in. Lit it up. They lost the game, but he played so well that it gave the organization pause. And when Brett once again was waffling after the season on play, and they went, If we got that guy, we need to play Aaron.
Sooner than later. Yeah, Rich tells that story all the time. I think that was an NFL network game. It was an NFL network game on a Thursday night in Dallas. The big controversy in Green Bay at that time was whether you would be able to get the game.
Ultimately, you could. Right. But NFL Network was in its infancy at that point. Um But if you go back to And what they were able to get out of bread at the end that that's aaron now I've seen him evolve. I'm not close with Aaron.
I've talked to him a number of times over the years, over 20 years. Of him, he's now entering year 22 in the league. My first year at the Green Bay Press because that was in 2007. He evolved from. this confident borderline cocky young backup To a guy who became the face of the NFL for a long time and the highest paid player in the NFL.
He came back in that 2021 season after everything that happened and won his second straight MVP, fourth overall in Green Bay. He has not been the same guy the past four years. 2022 was a brutal season in Green Bay. Gets himself traded to the Jets, tears his Achilles. 24 coming off the Achilles, and it took a long time.
He played some of the worst football we've seen. The Aaron Rodgers last year. with the Steelers was not a bad player. You you can dig into all the advanced statistics and where he ranked. He was 14th in passer rating last year, around the middle of the pack.
There's other metrics where he ranked lower. But that was in an environment where, A, he played a bulk of the season with a Shattered wrist. where he was having to compensate for that and basically couldn't get hit. B, he was playing in an offense where, do you remember how many times we saw him screaming at the sideline? Whether it was directed at Arthur Smith or whatever, about the plays not getting in, what they were calling in big situations, the times that they're running run plays into bad numbers on a side.
And you'd see Aaron, who's always had a bit of a body language issue when he's not heavy, but he was pissed. I don't ever remember seeing Aaron that mad that often as we did last year. Aaron has evolved through the course of his life, where now We all know we've seen him come into this. He's in touch with everything around him, his place in the world, his emotions, where he is mentally and physically. You don't have to have consumed the entire Rogers documentary and seeing him on various herbal substances playing the bongos with a mustache to know, like, he's very.
He has a very great feeling about how the world works together. If you're looking for a sign from the universe and you're Aaron Rodgers, and the disappointment of last year where again they were 10 and 6 with them as the starter. He was not a bad player last year. But Mike Tomlin steps down, and you're Aaron Rodgers going, that's probably it. Mm-hmm.
I don't know how hard he was thinking about his future in January, but you're realistically going, that was the only guy I was going to come back for. The only guy on the planet He would have played for. Again, Is Mike McCarthy? They had their ups and downs. They had their disagreements.
You get that over 13 years together. I've been married now 14 years tomorrow. Disagreements come up on things like how many phone calls to take about Aaron Rodgers at dinner. But they had a connection. They had a very close connection for a long period of time.
And I know this: Aaron and Mike have talked a ton. What were the odds that of all people that were going to get that job, it's Mike McCarthy? What are the chances Aaron Rodgers is going to have one last chance for this beautiful... Final chapter. and that they can close it together.
I'm not sitting here and saying Aaron Rodgers is going to go out and be the MVP runner-up. that he's going to go to the AFC championship game. But if you look at this roster, they brought back a lot of veteran players. They continued to add pieces around him, whether it was trading for Michael Pitton and Drafting Jeremy Bernard. Drafting two offensive linemen, including Jennings Dunker, who looks more like a Steelers offensive lineman than any Steelers' offensive lineman in history.
They bring in. A defensive coordinator in Patrick Graham is going to do things a lot different, but has a bunch of key pieces to work with. Bring back Cam Hayward. Having TJ Watt. Having a top corner like Joey Porter Jr., bringing back Jalen Ramsey.
You don't do that if you don't think you've got an opportunity. Everyone can keep saying, oh, more mediocrity. That's all I've heard. That's all I've seen in social media comments for four months since they hired Mike McCarthy. And you saw it again with Aaron Rodgers.
Mediocrity Is a Steelers team that hasn't been top 20 in offense since 2018. Seven years in a row, they're in the bottom third of the league. They haven't, for a franchise built on defense. They haven't had a top. ten defense since twenty twenty.
They have been the definition of mediocre. All Mike McCarthy does every year is have a top five offense. Believes 13 out of his 18 seasons, top five offense. They're going to score points. Aaron Rodgers could be set up to succeed better than he has been at any point.
In the past five years. There are pieces to work with. We can look at the Ravens. We can look at the Bengals. Who knows about the Browns?
We can say they got talented quarterbacks, MVP caliber quarterbacks. They've got a lot of talent. I would just say this: don't write this off as, oh, this is the Steelers striving for 9-8 one more time. This may well be it. For Aaron Rodgers.
But in a year where the Steelers We'ren't going to be in position to take a first-round quarterback, and this was not the draft to take one anyway. You could do a lot worse than having a four-time NFL MVP who's coming back with a coach that he knows better than anyone, a system he knows better than any other. And coming in. with this beautiful mindset. that maybe Just maybe.
There is some magic left. And he's going to try to restore it in Pittsburgh. Phone lines open throughout the course of the show. 844-204-Rich, Vincent Goodwill. ESPN Senior NBA writer joins us right after this.
What in the world happened to the Pistons? What happens in Spurs Thunder tonight? Vince, with us next. The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. Oh, it's a little bit.
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Pleased to be joined right now by Vincent Goodwill, ESPN senior NBA writer. Tons to get into with you, Vincent. But let's start with this: clipping your nails in public, in or out. Yeah. That's a two America style.
That's what I'll just say. Two Americas. First of all, this is not public, this is like our work. I'm not like doing it at the bus stop. Or on the train.
But you're doing it in front of your coworkers in a work environment, and I have to listen to it. Thought we were friends. It's as if you just clicked it over me. I thought we were friends. All right.
Vincent, what happened to the Pistons? What the hell was that? Tom, I think you saw a team that ran out of gas last night. When you think about them being down 3-1 to the Orlando Magic and every game being an elimination game and playing every other day from that point on, the attrition of the playoffs came back to haunt them. In addition to the fact that simply they did not show up and all of their flaws came to bear.
Like I always say this about them: their superpower is making sure that you cannot play your best game as an opponent. And they lost their superpower last night. And that's why you were able to see the Cleveland Cavaliers play their best game almost from jump where they were just slower to the ball. They couldn't stop James Harden and Donovan Mitchell from getting to the lane. They couldn't stop the shooters from getting open shots.
It was like Cinderella's slipper fell off. But now I think it enables the franchise to walk into this offseason with a very clear and sober approach and not be seduced by what could have been a close game seven loss or something else that says, you know what, maybe we can bring the band back together.
Now they really have to look at this. Roster around Kay Cunningham and probably Asar Thompson as a second untouchable, and figure out what pieces can we mix and match to make sure that we can elevate ourselves not to be on the 60-win range, but to be better prepared for playoff basketball this time next season. You look at the Cavs in that first quarter, especially last night. I mean, they're making shots, including the one at the buzzer that you just felt like, okay, this is just going to be a snowball rolling down the hill. How good are they in a seven-game series now in the Eastern Conference Finals?
In your mind, what kind of chances do the Cavs have? You better be good in games one through five because I'm not sure what you're getting out of James Harden in game six and seven. History has told us that that is a mystery bag that does not always yield positive results. But when you look at Donovan Mitchell and James Harden, and then also the Twin Towers or tall and that's all, you know, Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, that's all-star level talent at four of the five positions. In addition, Tom, this is the highest payroll in the NBA.
They're the most expensive team in the league. We just think of the Cavs as being a small market and they don't have much of an identity beyond LeBron James, but there's expectations to be here. And when you have two explosive players like Harden and Mitchell, it's going to be a much different series, I think, for the New York Knicks, at least to start, because you have two players that have to occupy Jalen Brunson. You have Evan Mobley, who's a pretty dynamic big that they have not had to play in the first two series. This is going to be a Styles makes fights situation where neither team is truly.
Prepared for what they're going to see based off of what they've had to deal with in the first two rounds. Game one tonight, Spurs Thunder, Western Conference finals. You've obviously got maybe the best player on the planet right now in Wemby going up against the guy who was just voted the best player in the NBA and SGA. Handicap this series for me, and what's the pathway for each of these teams to be able to pull this out?
Well, Tom, I think we all understand that when we made our MVP votes maybe five or six weeks ago at the end of the regular season, like for one, man, the playoffs are long. But when you think about all of that, You think about Shea Gilgis Alexander, you think about his consistency, the 30-point streak, the 20-point streak, shooting over 50% from the field and 40% from three, and everything else that he does. And then you look at the other side of Victor Wimbaniama, and he's just this irresistible force. And you're wondering: do the Spurs have to go through some playoff pain? Like NBA history has told us for 40 damn years that you cannot go from being a non-playoff team to winning the championship without having some atrophy, without having some scar tissue.
But I think it's going to come down to not necessarily Victor Wimbinyama and Chet Holmgren as in the battle with the skinnies. As someone who used to be skinny himself, I appreciate them fighting over a very slim block at the corner of Oklahoma City and San Antonio. But I think it's going to come down to who guards Shea Gilgis Alexander. Stefan Castle, who a lot of people know from UConn and playing under Dan Hurley, he's going to draw the assignment, but there are so many guards that San Antonio has that they. can throw at the MVP.
Can you wear him down? Can you keep Lou Dort from hurting Victor Wimbiniama? Oh, my bad. Is that your kidney that I just hit with my elbow? Like, it's so many different things.
I'm so fascinated by the series, and I'm very curious if Oklahoma City feels the desperation because they want to repeat. My biggest concern with putting Stefan Castle on SGA would be he emerged as such an offensive force, especially in that Timberwolves series. We all know SGA is the master of drawing fouls and Castle. I mean, followed out of the first two games against the Timberwolves there, too. In my mind, I'm just going, how much can we put him on him knowing that this might put him in perpetual trouble and hamper us from using one of our best offensive weapons as well?
Tom, should you be an NBA insider too? Like, seriously, are you trying to take our jobs? Like, what are you doing here? But no, I think that's a great observation. I think when you look at the Spurs, they have so many other guards who are defensively inclined.
Like, you can also, I mean, D'Aaron Fox is not the greatest defender, but he can occupy time. Dylan Harper was the second pick in the draft. He's athletic and big and strong. Like, you can throw so many different players, Devin Bassell. Like, if you use this as defending by committee, and maybe, just maybe, if your guy only has four fouls at the six-minute mark of the fourth quarter and it's a close game, then maybe you can slide Stefan Castle back onto him and have him play.
I'll use an analogy for the NFL, have him play shut down corner for the last six minutes of the game and see what happens there if he stays out of foul trouble for the first 40 minutes or so. I would also say, you know, if you're in the camp and it seems to be, it seems to be at a pressure point now in terms of people complaining about flopping, which has been an ongoing thing for a very long time. Time. SGA, Wemby, and Hardin all being in the conference files. Not great.
Not great at all, Vince, if you don't want to see that, because you're going to see plenty of it from those three guys. Don't reward it. You know what? I'm glad we're gonna see it because you wanna know why. That lets us know that the NBA has allowed this to go too far out of hand, and the league will have to address this in the offseason.
Don't let it be done in the dark where James Harden doesn't get away with it, and Shea doesn't get away with it, and the league has to ignore the problem. As we've seen with tanking and some of the other things, the league does not address a problem if it's subtle. The league only addresses the problem when it's ugly and it's blatant. And don't get me wrong, I don't want to see it. I don't want to see the acting job or the soap opera jobs that we see with guys knocking their neck back like they just got hit with a Thomas Hitman Hearn's jab.
But the fact is, it's not great basketball to watch. And if it's going to be on the grand stage, and that's the conversation that we keep having, that means that the league is going to have to address this over the summer. And thank God. It's been rewarded too. I mean, if you look at the recent MVP winners, I mean, I put Nicole Jokic in that category as well.
It's in a different way, but there's still plenty of just the arm flailing and things. We know what SGA has done. He shot more free throws than anybody in the NBA again. Wemby, I just want to believe that Wemby is above it, and yet, you know, all of a sudden you have Julius Randle puts a hand on his back and he's throwing himself into the third row. To me, it reminds me of.
What happened with Moneyball in Baseball, where, yes, like walks became the commodity, right? Everybody wanted guys who'd walk, but you don't want your best player in baseball to be Kevin Ukalis. You don't want it to just be, hey, the guy who's best at walking.
Well, that's now the thing.
So, what did the MLB do? They outlawed shifts and they changed some of the rules. Like, they did try to work around some of the things that were happening because the product wasn't as compelling. These guys are really, really good players, but just man, Wemby, like, just stay on your feet. You don't need to pull the whole routine.
But it feels like also, all right, if this is what they're allowing, I better do it too. It's so many different conversations you can have, and it's so compelling. It's like perfection and efficiency are the enemy of good. Like, I don't care about efficiency when I'm watching basketball from an aesthetic standpoint. Like, if you tell me that Allen Iverson couldn't fit in today's game because he wasn't a great shooter, all right, cool, but I'll watch him seven days a week, and I will also tell you that he can find a way to win in those games because he's one of those guys.
And to your point about the flopping and everything else, it's been rewarded. Guys look at it on film, they're being told: hey, these are the spots on the floor where you can exaggerate contact because you're in a clear line of sight of the lead official or the trail official, and all they have to do is see your body jerk in a certain way. They don't have to know that you were touched or how much you were touched, they just have to believe that it was a legal contact. The problem is, a lot of times, the officials are only so close, so they don't know if the contact that you're receiving is heavy contact or if it's a foul. Because you're being touched doesn't mean it's a foul.
And I'm glad we're starting to have some of these conversations. You're right. Baseball went through a lot of this. I remember when Tom Brady, when he was playing, he would get hit or nicked and he would stare at the official. And next thing you know, roughing the passer.
Like, I'm so, but once you got out of that and addressed it, it made for a better game. And I think that's where the NBA is starting to trend to. It's going to make for a better game. But to victim win Minyama, that man, 150 pounds, you touch him, he's going to be flying. Yeah, well, and that's it, too.
And then sometimes it's, you know, he throws an elbow and almost knocks Nas Reed unconscious. And then you've got every Spurs fan going, well, he's been getting pushed around all series. It's like some, other times he's pushing himself. And the acting skills have now become part of the game. To go back to that series, too, against the Timberwolves, where, you know, game five, game six, they're just completely disoriented.
It kind of reminded me of what we saw from the Pistons yesterday, where it was like, you couldn't tell. Do you have a system? Like, what are you trying to accomplish? Not to mention they don't shoot the ball well. But Anthony Edwards, between shaking hands with eight minutes.
To go. And then the strains, the question about why are you coming up short in these series? And he kind of chuckles and says, no comment. What's going on in Minnesota, and what does their offseason look like here if their window is even still open at this point? That's a great question because if Oklahoma City and San Antonio are going to be running things at the top of the Western Conference for the foreseeable future, Anthony Edwards could wander being the goddess casualty.
Like Nikola Jokic has a championship. Stephan Curry, LeBron, James, Kevin Durant, we've seen the best of what they're going to be, and their teams are going to sort of follow suit with that. Anthony Edwards is supposed to be entering the prime of his career and having gone to two Western Conference finals in the last two years, taking out the Stephs and LeBrons and Jokices and all those other guys. Like he was supposed to be next in line, and then all of a sudden the Spurs just come out of nowhere.
So I'm sure being down 30 with eight minutes left, you find that real sobering and you're looking at your future and you're saying, Can we get past these guys? Because they're only going to get better. And I got to sit my ass on the bench for the next eight minutes watching while Rudy Gobert and Julius Randle, the guys who can't help me get there, are sitting there. Let me shake these guys's hands. Let me bring attention to the fact that people think that I'm just this fun-loving guy that doesn't take winning seriously.
And now we have to have this very serious conversation about do the Minnesota Timbulls have the requisite pieces around him? Like we've asked Anthony Edwards to take Rudy Gobert, who people don't think a lot of, Carl Anthony Townsend, who people did not think a lot of, and Julius Randle, who people don't know which Julius Randle you're going to get from day to day. And he's had to carry various versions of those teams to the Western Conference Finals. And now we're asking him to beat potentially two dynasties. Of course, he's going to say no comment.
That's for somebody else to answer. And can y'all really give me some help? Maybe Giannis? I mean, Giannis is that's the number one story. Is it not, Vince?
And going into this offseason, which we still have amazingly like four weeks of basketball left. But after that, as this thing moves forward here, where does this land? Where right now, if you were handicapping it, where is Giannis most likely to land? See, the crazy thing was it was going to be easy to plot Giannis in New York City because that's where he wanted to go. That was a team who wanted him and needed him the most.
But if the New York Knicks make the NBA finals, can you see them making that big of a move with everything that it would take, especially with how well they're playing now? Like, not to get seduced by how well they're playing now, but can you see them making that type of move if they feel like they are really close to a championship? Because getting Giannis does not, it's not a small piece. That is a really, really large piece that you have to adjust everything around.
So I wouldn't say New York being the first piece. I don't know if Milwaukee wants to send him in conference, but maybe he has to stay east. Like Oklahoma City has a draft capital. Can you imagine him? Playing in Oklahoma City with those guys or Houston with those guys.
Like, you got to look at who has the draft capital for Milwaukee, maybe Boston if he wants to stay east. But he and the future of unfortunately a 41-year-old LeBron James will hold us hostage for the first couple of weeks of July while I'm trying to go on vacation.
Well, I saw the NBA MVP voting.
Somebody voted Luca as the number two for MVP.
So apparently all the pieces are there. Look at the numbers right here. If LeBron decides to run it back in L.A., he's got the MVP runner-up. He'll be a guy who didn't play in the last two months of the season, Vince. Yeah.
I'm a voter, and I can tell you, I didn't vote him second. I'm not even sure if Luca was on my ballot. But I think the Lakers are such an interesting team because we've seen how Luca Dantas can be successful as the number one guy if he's healthy, if he's focused. We saw him carry a Dallas Mavericks team to the NBA Finals. Can LeBron James at 41, 42 years old, be the number two, number three option?
And in the way that you would need him to be a number two, number three option, he needs to be available, he needs to defend, he needs to shoot. I don't know if LeBron James is any one of those things at this point in his career. And I don't know if that's necessarily the best thing for them. But I will say this. As a retired player, there's no better place to be as a retired NBA player than to be a former Los Angeles Laker.
That will be your home for the rest of your career. And I don't know if there's a better choice for LeBron James to make than that one. No better NBA writer than Vincent Goodwill. Vince, thanks a ton, man, for coming on again. Appreciate it.
Hey, appreciate you guys, man. Thanks again. All right. Fountain of information. Vincent Goodwill right there, ESPN senior NBA writer.
You didn't lead with Vince the fact that you're from Minnesota, did you? Did that?
Well, I like to act as if I'm paying more attention than I am.
Well, plus, I'm just saying your comments. Giannis to Minnesota. Leading is what I'm saying. Giannis to Minnesota. I like that.
That's fun. That would be interesting. I would say, I mean, say this from watching that series. There is no way you can come back with the same supporting cast around Anthony Edwards that you did. Did this year.
The Rudy Gobert experience from completely dismantling Jokic in the first round to anytime the ball was thrown in his general direction, you knew it was going to be a turnover in round two. Like, that is a. That's a roller coaster ride. At some point, you're going to want to get off. But I mean, the Timberwolves, their situation right now, it's.
It's hard. Like, their flexibility is a little bit limited. One of many storylines we head into the offseason. The rejected shows at the sphere, TJ, the Rudy Gobert experience. They said no to that?
I don't know that anybody's wanting to. To jump on board with that. I don't know if you need to see that in 3D all around you. Would you imagine all the effects are on the screen? It's like, no, that's actually just him.
He's actually there. Yes, him and Wemby just on the two hours of him touching all the microphones for COVID. A lot more to come on this show. We'll get back to the NFL. Phone lines open 844-204-Rich.
Mike Garifolo is going to join us later on in the show. Stick around, Tom Pillacero in for Rich. Uh The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast. The NFL schedule dropped, and it is time to settle up, people. There's road trips to plan, hotels to book, tickets to split, tailgates to cover, scores to settle, all the things for the season.
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Tom Pellicero City in for Rich, 844-204-Rich. The phone number. Let's go to the phones right now. David in Los Angeles. What's going on, David?
David. Hey, what's up, Tom? How we doing, man? What's on your mind? Hey, so I'm wondering.
I'm a big time 48 Nyers fan. Is. If this draft class doesn't work out, should John Lynch be fired?
Well, I would start with this, and thanks for the phone call, David. I don't see a world where John Lynch ever gets fired. By the 49ers. Same thing with. Kyle Shanahan.
They have stabilized that franchise after, if you remember how things were for several years before they got there, it was a constant churn. It was the end of the Jim Harbaugh era, which became the Jim Tom Sula era, which became the Chip Kelly era. The 49ers are competitive year after year. They certainly, I think it's fair to say, have supplemented A lot through trades and at times free agency because they've had some misses in the draft. I know that there was a.
You know, a minor uprising via the media and with fans because you take Desan stribbling with your second-round pick. And that's your starting point for your entire draft. They've been really good drafting guys on day three. Brock Protey, of course, you know, pick there. Guys like George Kittle, Fred Warner, who were not first-round picks.
Top of the draft, bang for the buck hasn't always been there. I don't think it's a matter of do you fire John Lynch? If anything, at some point, could John Lynch decide, like, I've had enough and I'm going to walk away, I'm going to go into an emeritus role. They're structured differently too, because Kyle has such a huge Voice in everything they're doing. And they've got a lot of accomplished, you know, front office people.
RJ Gillen, who's currently a candidate for the Vikings GM job. Kwesi Dofomensa, the former Vikings GM, is out there. Tara Kamad, I mean, they've got a whole crew. Painted on John Lynch in over one draft. I don't think his.
If this is the theme from Niner fans right now, they are really questioning what went on this year in the draft. A lot of head scratchers from the fans' perspective. Do you think those feelings are warranted? I would say, again, the track record. I mean, let's go through the first round picks for the 49ers since John Lynch, Kyle Shannon, got there.
First year was Solomon Thomas and Reuben Foster. Not not great.
Okay. Right there. Mike McGlinchey in 18, really good player. One contract guy left. He got a big deal.
Uh Nick Bosa? Yeah. Javon Kinlaw, not so much. Good solid player, first round pick. Trey Lance, obviously.
In the end, I think all answers may have been wrong. If they had just taken Mac Jones, is Mac's career completely different? Maybe. And that was the guy that fit the mold of what Kyle wanted.
Well, that's what everyone was saying. Didn't work out with Trey Lance. Didn't have a first-round pick in 2022. Top pick was Drake Jackson. 2023 didn't have a pick in the first two rounds, took Jair Brown.
They've dealt a lot of picks. This is what I'm saying. Trades and free agencies where they've supplemented. Ricky Pearsall in 24. I mean.
Guy got shot. Yeah, Jury's still out. That has shown flashes of being a good player, not a number one. And last year, Michael Williams tears his ACL.
So there's some circumstances involved. I get it. I think the fans have a legitimate gripe on if you're landing at the top of the draft.
Well, you'd like to land more superstars in the draft or just starters. Christian McCaffrey was a trade. They gave up, I think, two second-round picks in that trade. Pretty good. Yeah, worked out.
Pretty good trade. They've made some strong free agent signings over the years. No, I don't think John Lynch gets fired. All right, let me phrase this a different way. Do you think the way Brock Purdy has performed and him being an absolute hit, obviously, a top, what?
What are we saying? Top 12 quarterback in the NFL right now? He is. If you go on the efficient story, do you think that has the most efficient quarterback in NFL history? Do you think that has massed a lot of their big swings and misses, if not absolute failures in the draft?
Well, it masks it in part because they have hit on day three and there's skill involved in day three. All the picks count. We tend to hyper-focus on what you're doing in the first round or the fact they've drafted all these first and second and third round receivers and a bunch of them have not entirely worked out. Kyle also is better than anyone in the NFL at getting people open. It helps to have good players.
You had Brandon Ayuk who performed at a pretty high level until he suffered an injury and then. Everything went haywire after that. And in all likelihood, just play this final down in San Francisco. You can. Debo was a system fit for what they did, not a first-round pick.
But Jawan Jennings was going to be Super Bowl MVP if they won that game. Jawan Jennings, who. Misjudged the market. I think that's fair to say. It ends up taking a one-year deal with the Vikings where he's going to have to prove it and he's going to be their number three receiver.
But yeah, they've had guys who have been pretty good with what they do. Again, you can find them anywhere. You can find them in trades, in free agency, in the draft. Would you like to have more hits at the top of the draft? Of course.
Like, if you go back in time, are you drafting Solomon Thomas and Ruben Foster in 2017? Probably not. But that's only one. You're looking at just Nick Bosa in what, eight years? That's one for eight.
Nick Bosa was a pretty good player. No, I'm saying he's very high-picked. I'm saying he's their one hit.
Well, but they're also not drafting high because they're always there at the end. That's the other piece of it. If you're constantly drafting in the 20s, it's not every year. But a lot of years they're drafting so low That, yeah, you're kind of into second-round type tabs. But they had a number three overall pick they got zero from.
At a position where you and you can go back and you can replay that one over and over. Remember, 2020 was the COVID season.
So the entire year was whacked out. Trey Lance played one game. His last year in college, it was like a showcase game and he didn't play well. For nor at North Dakota State, where he had, I think he only had like one or two games where he ever threw more than 20 passes. They were a run-dominant offense.
He had all the physical skill sets, he's a great dude. And At the start of the draft process, Mac Jones was probably going to be the pick. They came around on. Maybe we shouldn't just aim for the next Kirk Cousins, Matt Schaub. Jimmy Garoppolo, maybe we should try to get a guy who does all these different things.
Would Trey Lance in a different environment, if he didn't get hurt? Remember, he battled a bunch of injuries, never got the time on task. never was able to actually develop the way that he needed to. You know, if those things don't happen, is it different? Maybe.
There's a whole, I mean, listen, they traded up for that, right? What was their original spot? They weren't picking third. Didn't they move up? I'd have to go back and look at exactly what the numbers were.
But they're sitting there at three. You've got your pick of the third quarterback. You didn't get the top two quarterbacks in that draft. You didn't have a normal evaluation process because COVID hit. You didn't have any of the stuff that was like.
the normal things that you would have had. 2021, like the process was just kind of stilted. It wasn't right in the thick of COVID. That was the year before in 2020, but it was still like there were different rules. He didn't really play a whole lot.
There was a lot that went into that. And so I think all these, again, it's not making excuses for anybody, but J.J. McCarthy, Anthony Richardson, Trey Lance. It's all kind of the same thing. What are they?
We just all know. The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. Mm-hmm.
