What if the Brewers doubled down on the Hader Trade strategy?

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That's Grant Bills. He's just had his first cup of coffee for the day. Just his first sip. It's a special moment.

I like that you're a two hander too. You got to feel the warmth. Otherwise, why not just drink a can of Mountain Dew? What separates the cup of coffee from any other beverage?

You got to feel it. Nothing wrong with Mountain Dew. You both have one.

God damn it. But I also have a coffee. Yeah. I don't drink coffee. Yeah. I don't drink coffee.

I think that is already canon in the Bart Winkler universe. What is? I think it's established that you don't drink coffee. I didn't know. Oh really? I don't know if I remembered that.

Maybe not. Today is going to be a, we're going to toast it and post it. We're going to put this thing in the oven and I'm going to throw it online. Oh, I mean at its normal time, but I'm not going to like some nights I stay up late and I make sure that, all right, everyone's covered with all the details and I want it to be like, you know, I'm not, I'm not talking about the Brewers Wednesday game in this specific episode. I've got a very busy day. I do Bill writer show. I've got to go to Madison tonight.

I'll be at the Steve. You're getting rained out. You think so? I don't know where it is. Like how much we're only like 20 miles apart from each other, but it is like lightning thunder, heavy rain. Doesn't look great out there.

12 hours from now. I don't know. Unless the field gets so drenched. I mean, it's going to be a, yeah. Oh, they play on turf. Oh yeah.

So messy would not play there if needed. Is that a yeah. Yeah. He doesn't want to play on turf.

So some of these stadiums are like rushing in grass. Really? Yeah. So no Wednesday recap also. I have already watched secret invasion, the finale. Oh man, please don't, please don't spoil that. I would like to say something on it. I'm left underwhelmed by the finale and I'm an MCU Mark.

And so I'm like really trying to like it. It needed to be like 10 episodes long. It was too short. And they, they were, the finale was written as if the writers knew that the strike was coming and they had to like turn in their paper early.

There's been, there were times where I had those, I don't know, like some college professors, like you got to get it in by midnight. And then I didn't start until 11. And then I like rushed it in. And then this looked, it was rushed. I'm, I'm upset.

I am bummed. That's what people said about the idol too, right? Is everyone was so down on it, negative about it that they like, they shortened it and they compressed it. And then it was even worse for that reason. Is that what they did with secret invasion?

They didn't flush the whole story. Yeah. Some of the more interesting things weren't unveiled until like the last five minutes, which that should have been the series.

So I am disappointed, but very eager to see the Marvels coming out in November and Loki in October, there's another Loki at season two Loki coming back. Okay. I was going to say, okay. So another season of the same show, not a different, I gotcha. Well, that's exciting.

Yeah. I'm very excited. I'm very bummed. Can you explain to me what secret invasion have been better and more well-received if it came out two years ago, like it was unique and a cool thing in the Marvel universe, it's just coming at a time where people are so marveled out that they were just going to look down on it and be frustrated at, you know, by it regardless of how good it was. I don't know what's going on with Marvel.

I think everybody like wants it. And then I don't know. I I'm the, the, the show is fine. The show was good. And then it got rushed. I see this whole Marvel backlash. Like there's too much weird. They were just keeping up with the demand and they have a million characters and it's a giant world. It's like fine.

Thor can't be in every fucking show. All right. Happy place. And promo code is Bart 25% off every single order that you get. Did you guys know they cut prices and then still allow the promo code? Yeah.

They cut prices and allow the promo code. Yeah. I'm going to need to take a mango one today.

The THC free ones just to get a little focused up here. Got a long day. I don't know if I told you that got a long day. I'm going to try to carve out a nap maybe, but then I'm going to be worried that it won't wake up and it's going to be a whole thing. So I probably won't fall asleep. And then you're going to be sleepy at the Steve and no one wants that. I can't be sleepy at the Steve. That's when I have to be the sharpest and on this and on bill writer, I gotta be sure I gotta be, I gotta fake it till I make it. And I won't, uh, the USA world cup game on Wednesday. I won't have that reaction on my pod. Cause I'm going to get home from the Steve and I'm going to pass out, pass out happy place. hemp.com will help you get there as well.

You either got to take a gummy to sleep or have world's longest day. And if you don't have world's longest day, promo code Bart at 25% off, we're driven by the search for better, but when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search match with indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to indeed data and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day. Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences. Join more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use indeed to hire great talent fast and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash blue wire. Just go to indeed.com slash blue wire right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast, indeed.com slash blue wire terms and conditions apply.

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Robin hood financial LLC member SIPC grant and Paul, thank you guys for your services. What do you got for us? PI lots of good stuff. We'll see how much of it we can get in. Um, one second.

Um, no, no, take your time. We, I love PI. That rules.

What's that PI your initials. You just call, you just call me Magnum. Yeah.

Do people call you that? Um, naturally. Why?

For what reason would they not? All right, so we're going to start by, we're going to start this one by fighting. Oh, so get, get the dukes up. No, I want to have like a, a long form. I want to have someone who's, I want to have this Josh hater, William contrary.

I want to do this in a long form. I hope your listeners aren't sick of this topic because you bring it up with every single person you talk with. I'm sure it's going to come up with West hot quits for no particular reason.

It's one of them with Kurt Hogue. Well, that makes a bit more sense because of the guest is. Um, but I want to, I want to find a way into the topic that hopefully expands upon your thought process and also has us have a good conversation about it. So let me, let me start with this. Um, you, I know you guys used to like when I would test my topics with a couple of buddies.

I tested this one. Um, they were not nearly as against you, Bart, as I hoped they would be. So that disappointed me where our friendship is now on the rocks as a result, but the way that one of them said it, and I thought this made sense. You can hate the hater trade, love the Contreras trade and still not be contradicting yourself. So that you can hate the hater trade, love the Contreras trade and not be contradicting yourself or, and if there's people that are like, why are they talking about this?

Um, cause now I see people like, oh, bruise on first place and everyone wants to relocate the hater trade. Where did this come from? You know where it came from? It came from Contreras having a good night and then a bunch of people going, the hater trade was great.

It came from you saying people complain about it came from you. Also, I would also say it's relevant because with the trade deadline coming up, it was enough of a clubhouse disruption that Corbin Burns with Wade Miley forced Matt Arnold to say, are you to ask, are you trading me? That is, does that happen? Like in major league, in the NBA, you know, it's a little bit more like open-ended like, you know, I want to be traded like, but for former Cy Young Corbin Burns to assume I, if I was Corbin Burns, I would have assumed that I am very much on the table, no matter how well I'm performing that that is relevant as the trade deadline approaches. So I digress Bart, uh, it's not a contradiction. You can love the Contreras trade.

You can hate it. It's simple logic. And this is, this is the one I told to Kurt. It's like, if I am driving and get in a car crash and I am like bleeding and injured and very hurt, and I need any like help that I can, and I limped to the closest gas station and find help.

And then while I'm there, I play the lottery and I win. Does that mean the car crash was good? Is that if the outcome of something is good, does that mean like the process?

No, it's, it's two different things. And I think what people are having a hard time is they want to, they want to justify the hater trade. So they're saying like the hater trade happened unless, unless, unless the brewers targeted specifically estuary worries, thinking that they could flip him to the A's, but also from the Braves, like, unless they saw that coming, which they didn't, what happened with the Braves and the A's couldn't make out a deal. They call, uh, Arnold and they're like, what can you do? And then he's like, fuck, I'll take Contreras. If that's what it's going to take.

You want my boss traded for two things, if I may. So first it all like, let's play out your silly like gas station scenario. That would definitely make the car crash a good thing.

No, Paul, you got in a car crash and you got hurt. It's a bad thing. But, but, but, but it led to a positive outcome.

Thus, but it was a bad thing. No, you're, you're not, you're not, you're not this dumb. You're smarter than this.

You're not. I think, I think you're back to a little bit of a corner. The other thing I would say is when you're in a corner, stupid man pushes me into a corner and says, you're the one that came up with this gas station scenario is why I say that. Um, the other thing I'd say is like what the brewers did with Ruiz, did they know it would be a three team trade because Sean Murphy and the Braves would do this and then they'd have to get rid of Contreras or whatever.

No, but they did asset accumulation with Ruiz. So I'm not like, if you're like a 100 on this scale of like, it was all terrible and you know, ends don't justify the means. I'm not as, like, I'm not the direct opposite phrase I use getting rewarded for bad behavior.

Yes. I've heard you say that seven or nine times before this week today. Um, but, but they acquired a valuable asset and I heard you say this with Dario, he said, you only need like one team. And that is, you said like, Oh, one dumb team. Well, not necessarily one dumb team. Um, but one team that saw, Hey, like every time you are watching a game on Valley sports, Wisconsin for the brewers and you see the bottom right of the screen, it says stolen base leaders, MLB it's.

And even though he's injured right now, it still says E Ruiz 43 in second place in the entire league. You know, the A's obviously knew the kind of season they were going to have. They could get this guy who was going to steal a million bases. Like, you know, they acquired an asset. I think you need to say like whether or not they knew, which they didn't, that it would become Contreras. They acquired an asset that would allow them to be players. Do people forget that Stern says we took on salary to help them out?

Do people forget that the Nelson Lamet was here for a day before they cut them? And there was no intention, right. So you use David Stern's words, right?

Like there was no intention of keeping that player that was to help the Padres. And I think it's a, I I'm going to, I'm going to tap out on this one. Let me just say, I think you guys can talk about it.

I'm honestly tapping out of this. Well, I have a detour here. I just wanted to start there to step the stage and then we'll detour after Grant talks.

It's off the screen. I do have a detour on it that I just want to ask, but Grant, we can start this anywhere you want. Cause I do want to detour it cause there's a, I think a fun segue. You can hate the hater trade, love the Contreras trade. It's not a contradiction. I'm with Bart.

I don't think it's a contradiction at all. A couple of things that you guys discussed that all pile on. I think Bruce fans want to make the hater trade make sense. I think you both kind of hinted at that. Like there's this desire from the Brewers fandom to go back and say, Oh, that's why that happened. Bart wants these Marvel shows to be really good.

He'll, he'll try to talk his way into them being good. And that's why when he, when he has to admit like it, I was kind of disappointed by the ending. It's hard to admit that about the thing you love like Bart, when there's like a bad AEW wrestling thing, you like to try to say like, that was, you know, like you admit it, admit it. Like that wasn't good. Cause I don't want, my instinct is not to be like, yeah, that was bad. But I still say, yeah. Like, you know, I, I really, I could do with like Mox, Jon Mox.

He's not one of my top 10 dudes right now. I I'm, he needs something new and like, but I don't want, that's not my, my instinct is big defend, defend, defend. I love AEW.

Bart's like, I love Marvel Brewers fans are like, I love the Brewers. I'm going to defend the trade. Anyway. Sorry. Great.

Keep going. Well, I just think the Bruce fans want to make it make sense. And I will tell you, there is no making it make sense. Like I hate to bring this, actually, I don't hate to bring this up. I bring this up all the time when I was at spring training and it was in late March, all the brewers beat reporters who were there were still talking about the hater trade and how it made no goddamn sense.

And every time I would bring it up, I'd be like, so you guys like help clue me in here. There was no pressure from ownership. There was no pressure for anyone. This was David Stern's making the move that he thought was best. Yes, that's what it was. David Stern's genuinely thought this was a good trade in and of itself.

There was no outside forces that there was no deeper, deeper, bad magic or religion at work. So there's just no, there's no justifying the hater trade. It was just a miss.

It was a huge miss on. And one more thing, the accumulating assets thing, I think maybe a bit of a reach. I think, I think a little bit of re we may we're making it sound or you're making it sound like the brewers are very smart because they bought some, some very highly valued property that we all knew was going to be in demand in a couple of months. And then they flipped it for a profit. I think what the brewers did was they made a bad trade and they got some land next to the interstate. And all of a sudden the department of transportation was like, Hey, surprise, we want to expand to another lane. And the brewers are like, shit, like, wow, we lucked out with this crummy piece of property that we weren't going to be able to do anything else. Not a real surprise.

Those are always expanding. I suppose. Yeah. But I guess they didn't acquire like in the NBA, they didn't acquire four first round picks to have them ready for when Damian Lillard wanted out, they got an extra outfielder that was never going to play for them. And it happened to fit a trade that the brave, the Braves happened to be trading their good catcher away because they wanted to get a great catcher like that.

Yeah. Let me give you some pushback just because you brought up like the Damian Lillard example. The Knicks last year wanted Donovan Mitchell. They wanted Donovan Mitchell, but there was a limit to which they were going to go. So they essentially got outbid with draft picks by the Cavs.

Yeah. The Knicks did that not because they didn't love Donovan Mitchell, but because they had their eyes set elsewhere. If you listen to the punditry that prize is Joel Embiid. They are hoping that the Sixers totally shit the bed and that Embiid asks out and that they then have all the stuff. So it is about asset accumulation. Like if you're a general manager, if you're a president of team operations, like you're not draft, you're not always drafting the player or acquiring the pick because you want to draft the player or use the pick. You're doing it because you can throw it into a bunch of stuff.

Like, you know what I mean? So I got to push back a little bit on the idea that you're not acquiring assets for acquiring. Do they like Ruiz?

Probably not. They had way too many outfielders the way it was. They probably had very little intention of ever playing a stereo Ruiz in the Brewers outfield, but it's, you know, it's still asset accumulation.

No need. Well, to tie in a little bit of an NBA, I don't want to make this an NBA conversation, but like the Brewers traded away Josh Hader as if Josh Hader was an NBA star who demanded a trade and they needed to trade him and they didn't need to like a stereo Ruiz was fine, I guess. And they were luckily able to flip him for something else, but they could have just held onto him.

They could have just held onto him and got probably a very similar return in the off season. And I think that's part of the people used to be mad. They used to be mad. Like you're trading him to a team we're contending with.

Nobody says that anymore. It's like, we just forgot that Padres suck. The Mets. They really do. We I'll pivot this. Yeah, get off this. I'm annoyed.

Well, this is because by the way, they started because like I was ready to pretty much drop it. And then Ken Rosenthal last week put out that article in which you don't need to answer this, but I just, this is what set the stage for me. Rosenthal wrote, if I told you the Brewers traded a four traded a year plus of Josh hater for five years of an all star level catcher, four years of a dominant set up reliever and a top 100 pitching prospect, you'd think pretty good, right? And quote, and that's not, I understand what Curtis saying, but that's not what happened. They traded away. Josh hater stuck a massive wrench in the wheel of their season, pissed off all of their fans, betrayed the trust of a bunch of their players.

And they're going to be living that down forever. And it worked out okay. Getting Contreras because the Braves happened to be in the business that the Brewers needed them to be in to get a capturing future. I understand. I do.

So here's, here's my pivot topic because it's, it's, this was all intended as set up here. This is me asking you guys this, this is no longer Ken Rosenthal or anything else, but I want you to just let this soak in for a moment. Anything you say, Magnum ledge.

Can I go back to ledge? I didn't get a response from Chuck the other day. I thought I, I thought I would fade them into a Twitter response.

He goes, all these empires suck. How are they at the big league level? And I tweeted like, you just don't see kids that want to be umpires anymore frames. I thought that would get them. No, no. If I told you the Brewers make a trade at this year's deadline, that makes them worse. And the team misses the playoffs. You get to look into your crystal ball and this is all true, right?

You know, you're getting worse. And as a, at least sub consequence or consequence, you miss the playoffs. But when you fast forward a year from now, the pieces acquired at this year's deadline are so good that it makes it an absolute home run of a trade for 2024 and beyond. You would do that. Or let me just rephrase. It tanks your 2023 season, or at least leads to the tanking of it.

But 2024 and beyond, you are just like, Whoa, Whoa, we are so much better in 2024 and beyond as a result of this 2023, you shit the bed 2024 and beyond. Oh my God, look at what you did. You would do that.

Why or how under what logic under the logic that it's the exact situation of hater and Contreras under that logic. You wouldn't do it. Why, why, why, why are we so, how much, how long do you think you're going to live Paul? A hundred, a hundred fifty a solid willing to punch seasons away. Well, no, maybe the changes I've started living my life thinking that I'm going to die at any moment.

I've noticed that I realize my own mortality and I don't, I don't want to wait for, I don't want to do investments. I want now I just thought this team was about bites at the apple. And if they did that, then we'd be going two years without a bite at the apple. Let's be clear.

They threw last year's apple, like so far out the highway car window. So you just get in and anything can happen, right? That's the goal. Well, in order for that strategy to work, you need to get in. And that's why they asked Stearns at his press conference last year. It's like, Hey, if your whole strategy is just built on getting in, does it hurt a little extra to miss the playoffs this year? And I don't remember what David Stern said, but the answer is yes.

Yes. It hurts more when, when you're just playing to get in and cross your fingers, you need to get in. And then we'd be going two years without getting in. Now, what, what, what are we talking about for return? Like first baseman of the future? Cause if it's an elite reliever and another Eric Lauer fucking save me. Okay.

No, no, no. Like to make it like, okay, you just got your catcher of the present and future with Contreras. So let's say in this version, you get your five years of control first base, the dude's an absolute stud.

Then what is the point of being a rebuild Paul? Why can't you, I don't agree with that. Like you, so you want a Brewers team that has a good first half and then no matter how good they are at the trade deadline, they say, Hmm, but we could be better next year, even though we're good now, let's just punt. There's absolutely a point at which you can no longer do that.

Let me be like, I'm not going to ask you, let's say they did what I'm suggesting here. I would not also suggest that next year for a third year in a row, but you want to be the Pittsburgh pirates, obviously you want to be, I do not want to be the Pittsburgh pirates. I don't think that's comparable given where the Brewers are at. The only thing that's so bar, this is what I'm, this is why I'm confused with, with your take in particular.

You unless you've changed your approach, which is fine. If you have you, you're the world series or bust guy. Like I want to see a world series in my lifetime, right? Like that was, that has been for the past five years or so for sure.

Like you're calling card. Do you think there's more than a 1% chance the brewers win the world series this year? If you don't, then you shouldn't care what they do this season and missing the playoffs or making the playoffs if they're just going to bow out. Right. So, so I, you know, I don't get it. So I guess I'm confused.

Are you on the path? We don't, we probably don't think they're going to win the world series this year, but it's still, it's still an outcome that's possible. They're learning how to win. These young kids, the freshmen are learning how to win.

You have to teach good habits. What do you say about Philly? They've lost for so many years.

The stench of losing is just, it covers that organization and all the young guys who've come through it. So if you, if you, so why do we have Corbin burns? Why do we have Willie diamonds? Why don't we trade them?

Trade them? They could get their first basement of the future. Next year. Corbin burns. Isn't going to be here. That's why the strategy sucks is Corbin burns won't be here.

The Corbin burns will be here in 2025. If you want to have this strategy, these need to be off season moves. I'm okay with that.

Yeah. You to do this in the middle of the season is moronic and flat out insane. I agree with you.

I agree with you much, much better than the off season. Um, I think the, the challenge with this topic is it's like, you can say like, well in a vacuum, let me be very clear. If I was Matt Arnold, the problem with the topic is they did something stupid and you want them to do it again.

Problem. They are better in 2023 and beyond drastically because of the consequence, even if it's a bad behavior consequence, having William Contreras sets them up to be a much, much, much, much, much better team. You have a big unknown. Like what could have happened in 22? If they had made a trade to bring in talent a hundred percent out of the break really well last year, did they do it was last year, the year that the gods allow them to win the world series, but then they traded a guy and didn't get anybody at major league value in return. We'll never know. We'll never know who would revive. Did they, did they cause themselves a world series then it's like fell asleep and then got the you up text an hour later. And we woke up the next morning and we had missed it. And we never know when we could have maybe never know.

We'll never know. It would be insane for the brewers to repeat. So in a vacuum, I think I would do what I'm suggesting if last year was wiped clean. Like I'm, I'm okay with, you know, there's a level to which I think you can upgrade your future. It can't be like nominal.

It has to be like, Whoa. You know, I'm not like, yeah, for a marginal upgrade. Absolutely. Let's tank the season for a massive upgrade.

I, but, but you can't, I mean, this is all in theory, right? Because after what happened last year, the only thing I want to say too, is there's two things I think that failed the situation a year ago, and David Stearns admitted this, he failed in acquiring a bat also. Like I've told that, I think I told this story on this podcast previously, but like there was a point during last year's dynasty fantasy football league where like, I'm trying to get to an end point, but I'm not going to do trade one until I know that trades two and three are locked in.

Right? So like the mistake wasn't necessarily trading hater. It was trading hater, and then not knowing for sure that's where the proof is.

Totally. The proof is in that dynasty league we're in. Cause you're needle-dicking your way trying to build all you want is draft picks and prospects. And you're trying to build a winner in like 2028.

And so are half of your friends. They're trying to be like, let's win in the future. And then I'm looking around and being like, Jesus Christ, everybody's like, does anybody want to win this year? So someone goes, Hey, I'll give you Travis Kelsey for a first round pick.

I go, uh, yeah, okay. And look who won the league, me. Your dynasty team though, to do the parallel was much better positioned than the brewers are in major league baseball to achieve that goal. Because in the draft, which was one or two years ago, I drafted guys that were going to be good in the first four years. You guys were all drafting like Zach Evans and Zach Charbonnet and Zach Zacherson's and these people that all fucking my fucking month, some fucking day. I didn't have enough money for Zach Zacherson. I was already out by that point.

Um, if the, so anyway, I, I I'd say long story long. Would you rather have in a fantasy draft, if you, if we started a dynasty draft right now, would you rather take, would you rather take Bryce young or Patrick Mahomes? Mahomes? How about Mahomes or Lawrence?

Mahomes? Wow. Then that is against your whole strategy.

There. See, this is about the tiers thing though. Like there's the Mahomes tier. And then there's like talking to you. It's like talking to a fucking tornado. It's like, I get one thing and then it's like, Ooh, you can't just apply a singular logic across everything and say, well, that's what you're doing with the whole Brewer thing.

How do you tell me? Why are we getting higher like this? Because that's how the human conversation works. I'm right.

No, you're not right. Move on. Can you fucking move on to something else? I've limited time here. Do you have anything else to say? No, not really.

No, I'm going to end up doing bill writer's show today. Opening with the fucking hater trade somehow. It's interesting.

It's very interesting. The last point I'm going to make, other than the fact that not acquiring the bat at the same time as the hater trade was a big problem. Well, I was just going to say as a historian on this topic, the quote from Stern's press conference was we did not adequately fortify the roster in Josh's absence was the specific wording, which is an awesome way to phrase a direct quote. You can go listen to the press. The other thing though, and this to me, you know, we're all like communications majors, right? Journalism majors brought like the problem was the failure to communicate the news to the clubhouse in a good way.

They could have absolutely been just fine post hater trade if they had properly massaged the message. I'm going to get a lot of complaints about this episode. That's fine. I don't give a shit like that. I want to put it. Why are you still talking about this? I want to put it because there needs to be a definitive point. I have things to say that are important for this conversation.

That's right. My whole hater thing is really not, you haven't had your chance at it. I've not had my chance.

This is my chance. And I think these like there would, okay, so just real quick, do you agree that you think if they just could have gotten into the clubhouse and not let the spiral out of control, you're saying there's nothing that anyone could have said prior to like in a proactive way before the clubhouse morale took a huge dip? Impossible.

No, impossible. Then you give the players a chance to be like, why the fuck are you doing this? And I would say, well, you guys realize that Josh hater has a 14 era over the past month and a half. So we've seen him work through things like this before. He's our guy. We want, we, this is our version of coming in. Let me just play this out.

Let's all right. We'll be, we'll, we'll be brewers athletes in the locker room and I'm going to be Devin Williams. You can be who I'm Devin. I gotta be like Stearns here. Obviously you're Stearns. You're Stearns. You're pulling in Devin Williams. And who do you want to be Grant?

I'll be Brandon Woodruff. I'll be okay. All right.

So by the way, you've not heard the news yet because the problem let me be clear is that squeeze this in, I would compel people to watch this exchange, um, play out on the Dan Cheney, YouTube stream, Dan Cheney.com for all of your home and business and work insurance and car insurance needs. He has, uh, allowed us to get the tools to bring you streaming after streaming and this HD camera that I have. Okay. And this new studio that I have, we haven't commented on. It's the old audit season studio, but either way, um, and Paul is positioned to, can I change it up a little numb? So me and Grant's boxes are on the same level and Paul is on a different level.

Actually. Yes, this is what we will do. Uh, Paul, you are, I'm just moving boxes around on the stream. Paul, you're David Stearns.

Now I liked it better the other way. Oh Jesus. All right.

We get the setup. You're David Stearns. I'm Devin Williams and grant is Brandon Woodruff. Commence. Good day, Devin. That air ball, that airbender, that thing's a son of a gun. Thanks Brandon.

You are killing it, man. I just love this pitching unit. I guess, uh, Stearns wants to talk to you and I, so it's interesting. You say that Brandon about Devin's, um, airbender because there's something to be said here that Devin Williams, this, this guy, we, we do think he's being misused as a setup man.

He did the interview starter. Oh yeah. Devin, I'm just telling you, I'm just responding to Brandon that Devin, we just think that you, you're way, you're way, way, way, way too good to be a setup man. You know that if you were the closer of this team, you would be one of the best closers in baseball. You'll be an all star next year in 2023. Guaranteed. Very nicely. That's very nice of you to say, I feel like I've really been honing my craft and right now I'm just happy to be part of this bullpen and getting things set up for my, my dear friend, Josh.

Thank you. So is Josh willing to pitch multiple innings again? Is he going to go back to six, seven, eight? I mean, that'd be great. And that's something I'd love to talk to you about because starter what's, what's this about anyway?

I'll get to the point about you. I want to mention what you said about Josh. We really did want him to be a multi inning guy, you know, like to pitch two or three innings in the middle of the game.

That's where he has the most value. We've had some conversations with his agent and you know, that, that just, he really just insists on being a one inning only guy. And he, and he has been guys, I just want to, he has been a great brewer up until today, but in order to maximize what we know that this team can accomplish now and in the future for Devin to become the player that he needs to be, to be the all star closure that we know that he is, we are able to acquire future talent guys that know they will not impact our roster this year. For the most part, we're going to add a relief pitcher, but no one at Josh's level. But what we think this is, is this is the opportunity to elevate Devin into the closer role to let our team blossom now and in the future. As a result of that for Devin, we have traded Josh haters to the Padres. I want to help. I want to, we're going to communicate this message to the rest of the clubhouse, but I want to emphasize that our team is going to add talent into the younger parts of the organization while elevating Devin Williams into the closer, like this, this is awful. Paul, come on.

That was pretty good. First of all, you've already, you told that you've already traded him. Yeah. I had to tell you before this meeting, you've already traded like, so now I'm taking like, I don't feel like I was involved at all as Devin Williams. Also you've, you've, you've made it feel like it's my fault that he got traded.

There's one thing, there's one thing Devin real quick. I'm David. I forgot to tell you, this will drastically increase your future earnings potential drastically.

I just want to be part of the winner. So here's a spreadsheet I can show you of relievers. I'm a baseball player.

I just want to, you're going to nerd coming down from the fucking fourth floor to show me a goddamn spreadsheet. Cause my best friend just got traded. Your best friend just got traded as a result. You're going to tell me I got to go home and tell my wife. Is he married? That no, my wife texted me.

Did I take her? We're really flipping in and out of character. I just have one question, David, what the fuck? Future assets. You're not going to resign. I'm not here longterm now to be, to be clear. I'm probably stepping aside after the season. And I'm probably just taking this whole thing just so I can get out more easily and bring in Matt Arnold.

Wait, did I share, did I overshare Brandon? You are just a nervous creature in front of two very, very demonstrative professional athletes right now. Paul, that was, I mean, that was awful. I felt pretty, I felt pretty good about it.

That may be written into an email. You're standing in front of us and we're in our locker and you're, you're, you're talking to us like we're not human. By the way, I was, I there's, there's still an hour left before the trade deadline. I'm going to try to get a bat. Okay. Yeah.

You try to get a bat. I'm sure you'll make some calls, David. All right, let's change the subject.

Yeah. You're going to do what you did last year and get John Curtis. Where the fuck is that guy? There's two S's two S's at the end of call. Call Detroit.

David. See, see what they got in their bullpen. I'm sure that'll work out again. Ready to move on. I think yeah, there's panic at my house. I wish I could help. Oh, your wife can't find her keys. Yeah.

Did you work from home? Well, she got to take kid to daycare and it's probably pouring rain. What is up with you in this rain? There was no rain when I got in. It's like the, it's like the one day a year we're supposed to get rain.

Paul is all over it. Well, it was like dark sky, like pure dark sky. It was like two, I guess. All right. So the next topic is related to Devin Williams, Josh Hader, Will England-Treyer.

Just kidding. You guys went to NBA or Packers? Packers.

Packers. I would agree. Rob, Rob Damowski quoted this, your buddy. I know you didn't see this part. Grant, you might've been able to. That's good.

But it's a Mark Murphy quote from, from shareholders meeting where he said, I'm, this is a Mark Murphy quote. I'm comparing it a little bit to Aaron's first year as a starter. Yeah. I'd say at least half a season to know and quote Packers fans will allow the grace of eight to nine games Packers fans will if Jordan Love is, you know, kind of not too good for the first eight to nine games Packers fans will have the patience to see it through and not make drastic conclusions about Jordan Love Packers fans will give Jordan Love the eight to nine games of grace that it sounds like the team believes Jordan Love will need Packers fans will allow that. We'll be good with that.

We'll see through the, the moment that Packers fans will do that. Grant, would you like me to bat lead off here? I can, I can bat lead off on this one. I can be quick.

Um, she finally sees, I think, thank goodness. Um, I I've seen cowherd show and get up on the four letter network and sports center and all, all the four letter networking that shit. Why? That's what everyone else says. One guy says he hears it a lot. That's not just bill. So many people say that bill, when he says that was on ESPN affiliates and he would still say it. Okay. So I'll say what Dan Patrick says.

I'll say, well, at the old place, is that better at the old place? It's called ESPN. Fine.

Yes. On ESPN and all the, all the studio people are like, don't, don't mention ESPN. Cause if you say the word ESPN, they're going to be like, Oh yeah, I should go listen to that.

I totally forgot ESPN existed. Well, uh, Disney's earnings report would suggest that maybe that's the case for many people. Too many Marvel shows, too many Marvel shows, too much.

What they spend too much on too much. Well, programming here's doesn't single out Star Trek. He says, Marvel, that bastard Bob Iger, why don't you pay your writers, get them to back to work. So I was just going to say, this was a brief point.

I would be done by now. If not for, you know, uh, all these debate shows, they've had the headline. Mark Murphy says half a season, you know, fair or foul, you know, all the shows I saw McIntyre on coward leading with that. We took McIntyre on coward too. He was like, he was like, I'm chasing McIntyre.

Like David Stearns. Who was he? He was interviewing someone, Tom Pelicero. I was like, Jesus Christ, Jason, just fucking ask your question. So all of those shows took Mark Murphy's comment and turned it into a topic. Like you said, where did that word Christine Leahy go anyway? I don't know. She's like, I'm going to do my own show where I interview people in their house.

And then she fucking vanished. I think it, I think the show didn't last very long. Grant. I just don't think, I just don't think Mark Murphy thought that hard about what he said. And everyone's treating it as this proclamation from because Mark, Mark talks to the audience he's in front of and, and, and then it would, I don't know. Is that fine?

Cause you talked to the audience you're you're in front of, and then people always take it a different way. Yeah. So we're taking this statement from the organization that the Packers have decided behind closed doors that Jordan Love has a half meeting.

And I think Mark Murphy was just at the podium like, Oh, how long, half a season. I don't know. Look at our new video board.

He does. This is not that serious. And everyone's taking it as something very serious.

Well, so the grant, I do agree with you. That's why the, the approach I want to take is more of the, like, let's just say it takes a little while for do Packers fans have the patience now keep my, we are a social media, very reactive. There's seven post game Packers shows and podcasts. They're like, if it's game three and Jordan Love just had two bad games in one, okay. And the Packers are one in two or Oh, and three, is it going to be like, Oh, we made that the biggest mistake? Can't look at Aaron's over there in New York and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like I'm just kind of questioning. I think the patience level of a fan in this era to be able to see through a mediocre opening stretch. If that even happens, do they have the patience to see how that actually plays out? And I have the patience to see through to the following brewer season. I don't need instant gratification. I have patience.

All right, sorry. It's cause you view these teams as topics. You view them as your, your spreadsheets, but this is real life to Bart and myself and we're, you know, we're Packers owners as well. This is, this is our last, I said, we're human beings in that role play. Paul shrugged. Yeah.

He was like, I guess you are in commodities. As all people are is data to you. You just look at me and see a bunch of ones and zeros. I see a lot more zeros than ones, but sure. Jesus Christ. I wasn't, I wasn't a hundred percent sure what that meant.

I thought it was pretty good. I'll say by the way, I think they don't have the patience. No, I think Packer fans are, I think we do believe we have, I think we do have the patience. I think we're going into it understanding that this is Jordan loves year to figure it out if he's good or not. Now, if they start own for human nature will take over and we will combust. I would argue that will happen if they start wanting to, I would like to, you know what I would like to, why, why is it all the negatives?

Is there, is there anyone saying what if Jordan love throws for four touchdowns against the bears? No one even thinks that's a possibility, but you know, is that a bad thing? I don't think that's a bad thing.

I mean, I'd say there's lots of positives. Matt LaFleur the other day was like, he was asked about the different energy coming into camp with all the young guys. He was like, it feels like the first year.

It feels like it feels like you're one, like he's all jokey and laffy. And I'm all for that optimism. I am because we don't have reason yet to not be optimistic. Like we might as well view this as exciting. I'm just saying, let's not get cute. You know, Mark Murphy and Matt LaFleur said, oh, it's fun.

There's the unknown and we're excited to try something else. It's like Aaron Rogers kept a lot of people employed for a long time. Okay. And I, I was fine being done with the Rogers. It's true. I know, but I just hate it.

It's true. And I like, like a lot of people, like I think LaFleur and Murphy willing to be done with what we were doing for the last 10 years, because it wasn't working. You've said, get off the ride. I was fine getting off the ride.

I'm also aware of what the ride was and what things could be like without the ride. And I just feel like Matt LaFleur is exciting. Like I'm finally the big Dick on the block. It's like, okay, well, let's see how it goes. Let's see if you're singing the same tune in, in three months.

Cause you might not be. And that's why I just hear some of these comments. I'm like, let's be careful. I don't know. There's a chance this could go sideways. That's all I'm saying.

So here's maybe the side topic then that Bart makes me think of this as a result of what you said. The expectation from fans should be making the playoffs or no. Okay. Maybe that should be the expectation from majority of package fans is that they still, maybe they're not like 13 and four, but the expectation is that they make the playoffs. No, no.

Okay. Fans say no, but then when the Packers missed the playoffs, they'll be, that's, that's my question and concern. We want our team to make the playoffs and they're going to say like, look, the NFC North was so bad and yet they couldn't even, yeah, there might be games they blow, but I like, and then they like bites them. And, but this is, no, this is, this is the, the Brewers thing that you're wishing for. It's happening with the Packers next year is, you know, the start of competitive. And like, and like we've talked about previously in other episodes where if the season goes poorly and Jordan love does not necessarily absolutely look like the man of the future, you're going to have a, if you, you know, you missed the playoffs, whoever you'd have a top five, top 10 pick, you're going to also maybe then have the jets first round pick if you want to leverage those to move up even farther. So like, it's a there, I mean, the Packers in my, they're in a win, win scenario. Expectations are low.

They will likely, well, I don't know, medium low, but like, wasn't a Dario who said in your podcast part that there was a study that came out and it said, if you put quarterback aside, the Packers have the fourth most talented roster in the NFL. Sure. But you can't do that. I think he was looking at that upside down. I've not seen, I don't know what he was. I've not seen it. Are you serious? Like, have you seen the study?

No, I think he made it out. I doubt that. I just don't think that that is Uber important because if Jordan loves stinks, like, Oh, they found a star in Christian Watson. Okay. You know, I have coming podcasts, you know, what Wes Hodkowitz says to me?

What's up? He says, that is one of the best questions I've ever been asked. Well, what was the question?

You'll have to find out. Oh my goodness. I said, Wes, that's all I ever, that's all I ever go for. Thank you, sir. You must've had, it must've been about the hater trade.

It was, or, or was it about the audio and the sweets of too much Larry and too much? I do. I do bring that up.

I also tell them that I like the brewers, but they're so easy to make fun of. This is all in the pod. Well, I eagerly await. What was that? Yeah. Yeah.

This week recording. Oh, you did. Yeah.

Uh, in the search bar at the top of Omaha steaks.com, that's where you type in Bart and then you can go and find the deal, right? Yeah. Oh yeah.

You get the boneless chicken breasts. Yep. You get that. Yep. Uh huh. You get all that.

The jumbo Franks are in there. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Just enter the Bart at the top and then you get free eight burgers.

You get 99, 99. Yep. Okay.

Yep. Thank you, John. That was a really real conversation.

A lot better than your shitty Stern's cosplay. That kind of was so bad. It was rough.

It was unplanned. You like talk as turns you like talk to your like, you can even convince yourself anymore. It sounded like you were trying to convince yourself. That was the problem is we're just sitting here.

Like, is he going to be this fucking guy saying this fucking nerd who came down here? Yeah. Any you're both very mean. Um, it's a real world, Paul. We don't, we don't work in an office and on a spreadsheet, we throw baseballs and have to win games. We're judged on results. We would just like the same standard.

Yeah. You want us to have this great locker room camaraderie and you just take a fucking nuclear bomb to it. Oh, could I, could I throw in a little side topic on the note of the Packers, but tie it also into what's going on with David Cerns. Can I just say this whole celebration that I'm all for the, the renovations at Lambeau upgrading things, underground parking, all this money that Mark Murphy invested in Gooty and the floor were like, Oh, thank you.

This is great. The most overrated topic. The most overblown thing is now Gooty and the floor's offices aren't upstairs. They're downstairs. So the Packers don't, the players don't feel like they're beneath the players. Don't feel like when they go see the boss, they're going up to the principal's office. You are a little baby as an NFL athlete.

If you can't handle going up some stairs, if you feel demeaned and, and, and, and if you feel like you're being lessened because you have to go up a set of stairs to talk to your boss, then you, you don't have it. You're not cut out for this. Let me, let me, let me, let me, let me copy and paste that whole thing.

Agree and set and pretend that you were now talking about the Brewers clubhouse of 2022. If you can't handle, if you can't handle one little trade, Oh, my friend is gone in bad fate. That's not a little, my friend is gone. We've, we've all talked. I've been taking calls at countless calls on my show about how Devin Williams did not handle it well.

And about how yellow was enough leader. I agree. Don't say that it's a little trade though. It's not. And I just, this whole, you know, we were talking with Mike Clemens cause Mike's on my show. He's on Bill's show and he's great. And he's like the renovations now that everyone's on a level playing field, you know, the bosses don't look down over the player.

It's a, it's I'll, I'll, I'll put aside the character that I'm apparently leading into here. And I'll say that that topic, the one of like the Packers offices and everything is like beat reporter, you know, catnip. It doesn't matter at all, but when you're doing day-to-day coverage, it's like, Oh, something that's not like who performed well in the training camp and something that's not about Aaron. Like, you know, it's, it's a beat reporter topic that I don't think anyone gives a fuck about. Then talk about the underground parking. Talk about another apartment. Green Bay Packers are talking about, everyone cares about all that shit.

No, see Clemens. I would have done the same thing if I was on Bill's show or I said like, so Bill, something cool that happened this year is that they moved their offices and here, and I've talked to a couple of players and here's why they think that that's a big deal. If there's a fan, a fan who cares about that, I would be, I am a fan. I care.

Why? This is so, you would want like your, your favorite publications, beat reporter spending their day, like writing about the office location of the coach and the GM. This is such a hack. I would have written about it and I would have done so knowing that it was dog shit.

I would have still written about it knowing that it was dumb, but go ahead. It's a behind the scenes. Look at the team that we don't get a lot of access into.

It's a good look, but the implications of how the players feel better about it is, I think that's what grand. I'm someone that I'm I'm I live. I hate being bought a stud of fear. I, I relate.

You just don't like having, you just like doing air checks. I don't, you can't go up a set of stairs or are we, it's not about that. It's about the kind, it's about, no, it's not, it's a man in the high castle, man.

That's not, Oh my God. It's just dumb. People always say like you up in your ivory tower.

They never say like, Oh, like you across the street in your ivory house. Office. I don't know. It's just so it's, I think it's overblown. And I think it's, I didn't even know. I didn't even know about it until you guys brought it up. Hey, the Packers have been doing business a certain way for a long time.

They've been, they've been very analytical about it. I tried to tell their social media team that there's different things that we can do here, but they told me that's the way it's always been. And it, and it should stay that way because I don't want my, my professional football team, my 13th.

That was my Kurt Benkert impression. I know. I don't want them making dumb TikToks.

They're an NFL team. They should, it should be a boring account. That's another thing that we can talk about, but I'm, I'm hijacking Paul's.

You want, you want boring social media? David Bocciari does not agree with you. Do it.

But, and I know Bart and David are like, you know, in lockstep on most things. All right. I think you got to go. Well, and Lee can squeeze in a little turd here.

What do you got a little dessert? I didn't know if I was going to say this mockingly or how I was going to bring this up, but your guy over at pro football talk, you were talking about the running back thing the other day, Bart on the national show. And I don't know if you saw what Florio suggested the best solution to the running back problem, a league wide fund that pays each of them for performance.

The best way to get it, tell the league now that none of them will participate in the 2024 off season program and mean it. So Florio has the worst ideas for things. He always takes things too far.

Like he's tinfoil hat, conspiracy theory guy, wild idea that will never happen guy. I actually like Florio, but then he, he like tries to put the rubber to the road and it always sucks. And Dan Katz, cause I used to listen to a lot of part of my take. He said this a couple of summers ago. He's like, we love Florio, but this time of the summer, he starts going a little crazy and he just has dumb ideas and bad takes.

This is one of them. I saw there was something on Monday or Tuesday after Saquon Barkley signed his deal. And it was Josh Jacobs. Like, so Saquon, we really doing this and Saquon on the other line saying, Nope. You know, just as soon as Saquon Barkley got a deal that would have been better, slightly marginally, not even it's the same deal.

No, no. Cause he got like, he got signing bonus. He got some of the guarantees. He got some incentives. He got more, but it was, and now he can just be franchised tag next year.

If the giant want that. Yeah. But I mean, so anyway, there's these guys, especially running backs have such, such short careers, like to sacrifice that in the name of like the future of running backs is really hard.

And I'm not, yeah. Begrudging Saquon Barkley for doing that, but guys, thank you. I have to connect with the overlords at CBS sports radio. I have a great show writer show on Thursday and also Zach Elms on Friday and my show on Sunday. And I'll be at the Steve again on Saturday. If only you could find employment. I'm unemployed in my basement. Thank you guys. Thank you.